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View Full Version : What is up with the VIDEOS/"takes" that come with IL2????



NeuralTech
08-08-2007, 01:59 PM
I've watched just about all of them by now and am racking my brain trying to figure out how some of these guys are flying STRAIGHT up in the air when I can hardly even manage a proper loop at the correct airspeed.

And before you tell me, "it's experience, yada" - please answer me this:

Why is it then that in one of those BF-109 dogfight 'takes' - one of the BF-109 pilots performs a perfect full frontal loop.... is barely coming out of the loop and can't have much airspeed at that time, and yet - he goes right into another loop, again, perfectly performed as if he had enough airspeed/etc... yet, it's obvious that there was no where near enough time to gain enough airspeed to pull another loop.



Are the players in some of those vids simply turning off all the realism options/difficulty settings.... maybe some kind of custom config.ini er somthing..?.....


I know loops are possible, yada, but pulling one off immediately after coming out of a loop does NOT make any sense seeing as how bloody hard it is to perform a single loop.


Also, in this same BF-109 vid, it appears as if the planes can turn as tight as they want w/out fear of stalling/spinning.

Why am I not as privledged?

thks for any insight to these questions,


Chr*s



Please pardon my newbness if there are simple, known answers to these questions in cyberspace.

NeuralTech
08-08-2007, 01:59 PM
I've watched just about all of them by now and am racking my brain trying to figure out how some of these guys are flying STRAIGHT up in the air when I can hardly even manage a proper loop at the correct airspeed.

And before you tell me, "it's experience, yada" - please answer me this:

Why is it then that in one of those BF-109 dogfight 'takes' - one of the BF-109 pilots performs a perfect full frontal loop.... is barely coming out of the loop and can't have much airspeed at that time, and yet - he goes right into another loop, again, perfectly performed as if he had enough airspeed/etc... yet, it's obvious that there was no where near enough time to gain enough airspeed to pull another loop.



Are the players in some of those vids simply turning off all the realism options/difficulty settings.... maybe some kind of custom config.ini er somthing..?.....


I know loops are possible, yada, but pulling one off immediately after coming out of a loop does NOT make any sense seeing as how bloody hard it is to perform a single loop.


Also, in this same BF-109 vid, it appears as if the planes can turn as tight as they want w/out fear of stalling/spinning.

Why am I not as privledged?

thks for any insight to these questions,


Chr*s



Please pardon my newbness if there are simple, known answers to these questions in cyberspace.

T_O_A_D
08-08-2007, 02:03 PM
Please remember this is a 7 year old Game engine, and some if not all those were recorded in a diffrent and older version and Flight Model that you now have.

I've got a track that you can't replucate with this Game version 4.08, or atleast I can't anymore.

Of a Corsair taking off with Tiny Tim's (ftp://12.218.133.88/TOAD%20Tracks/TOAD%20Tiny%20Tim%20Carrier%20Take%20off%2050%20pe r%20fuel%20.zip) on a statonary Carrier. I can get close, but not quite anymore.

p-11.cAce
08-08-2007, 02:06 PM
Why the custom config question again? If you are looking for a simple way to move to uber by altering a few settings...well its just not going to happen. I know you don't want to hear it but practice practice practice. I can handle i-16's in an Emil now that I've played through Flatspinman's wonderful Kondor campaign a few times - at first I thought I'd never survive. Then I worked on the proper use of flaps, keeping the ball centered ALWAYS, and flying smooth and soon I was turn fighting on the deck without worries.
There are a number of great config guides in the links we have already passed along - note that this is NOT a microsoft product and that access to the FM's (for all practical purposes) just does not exist - which is the main reason this sim has survived and thrived.

NeuralTech
08-08-2007, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Please remember this is a 7 year old Game engine, and some if not all those were recorded in a diffrent and older version and Flight Model that you now have.

I've got a track that you can't replucate with this Game version 4.08, or atleast I can't anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, makes perfect sense. Well... s**t, it's pretty misleading, lol.

makes sense though

Thank you so much for putting that to rest.



this is one of the best forums I've ever been on - you guys are so awesome!

TX-EcoDragon
08-08-2007, 03:11 PM
P11 said it. . .practice.

Also, regarding consecutive loops, your exit velocity is near what it was when you enter the loop, some energy is lost as a result of the increased induced drag at higher G loadings, but if you have enough energy for one loop, a second isn't really much challenge in most aircraft. If you can't loop, you need to use a greater entry speed, and of course the loop must be tight enough that you do not run out of energy on the vertical upline, but not so tight that you snap out of it. This is really where the practice factors in. Remember to pull harder at the 6 o clock position of the loop than at any other point, and at the 12 o clock position you are pretty much at neautral on the elevator, or even forward of neautral.

Get in an La7 and you shouldn't have much trouble. Use a minimum of 450-500 KMH at first as your entry speed, and then you can fly a nice big loop. . . then start lowering the entry speed.

HuninMunin
08-08-2007, 03:22 PM
I said in once and I'll say it again:
Grab a biplane.
There you can just hold back the stick and the plane will loop all by itself.

T_O_A_D
08-08-2007, 03:23 PM
I agree practice will move things along and you will be able to do some amazing things on down the road.

But watching tracks is missleading, if not recorded in the Version they are being viewed in.

major_setback
08-08-2007, 03:30 PM
Get up some speed and keep it going for a long while to build up some momentum, the game realy seems to allow for this: Top speed in a La7 for 5 minutes, then close the radiators for a last few minutes, and you should have plenty of speed to play with. The game is quirky, once you've built up the speed in this way you seem to keep it quite well despite dogfight manouvres.

slipBall
08-08-2007, 03:40 PM
I have to agree that practice is the key....also develope the habit of looking at your gage's often, learn your aircraft, you will then know your limitations at any given time....

p-11.cAce
08-08-2007, 04:07 PM
Tx-ecodragon: I know you are RL aerobatic pilot who also flies a lot in the sim...have you had any luck with snap rolls? I fly acro in the I-153 (even doing some nice runway length 4 point hesitation rolls without starving the engine once I got the timing down) and can get 1 nice clean "true" snap roll with a wings level, on heading exit. But I can only do it in the -153 and I if I let it go much past 1 1/2 I drop into that pre-programmed "tumbling" spin entry. Recovery is fine but do you think this is simply an FM limit? What about gyro type manuvers like a lumchevak - can you do them in the sim?

TX-EcoDragon
08-09-2007, 11:48 PM
Hi,

Yeah, snaps can be done in other aircraft. I usually fly the FW-190A5/A6, and will get 1 1/2 to maybe 2 snaps before it transitions to a spin or tumble. The trouble is that there is no way to accelerate the snap as a real world pilot would generally need to do to keep the snap continuing. This is done by briskly bringing the elevator forward as soon as the stall occurs and the autorotation commences . . .overall the stick motion looks much like trying to punch yourself in the gut. If you simply bring the stick back, the snap becomes "buried" and will lose energy. In the sim, moving the stick does very little to spin and snap dynamics, where in the real world both aileron and elevator inputs will have an effect. The more subtle aspects of a flight model, adverse yaw, torque, and gyroscopics need more oomph to really get things going for us. . .and the current pendulous nature of the FM makes things look a bit more sloppy as well.

As for tumbles and such, they don't really work, and sadly, the best versions for aerobatics are not the current version.
Not only are gyroscopics in the sim inadequate, P-factor actually plays a large role in the way in which tumbles propagate, and that is also inadequate.

Hopefully the BOB Sukhoi will have us doing this stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2nAqyaLYiM

p-11.cAce
08-10-2007, 06:39 AM
Great video - amazing how precise the competition pilots are! I'm new to following the competition scene - spent my life going to airshows and never realized how different the two forms of aerobatics have become. It seems that competition routines (even the free) are scalpel sharp and most airshow routines are bludgeoned out.
In the sim I fly a lot of John Mohr style acro, trying to emulate his big graceful style with the J8 and the I-153, and I've been working on some more aggressive Jim LeRoy/Skip Stewart style stuff in the I-153. I unfortunately was at Dayton with my wife (at her first airshow) when Jim passed away. We have tickets and a hotel lined up for the Gathering of Mustangs and Legends in September, hopefully all will be safe. I have been involved in aviation all my life and have witnessed a few accidents before, but she was really shaken up and is nervous about going to another show.

Thanks for the feedback - it is greatly appreciated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hoenire
08-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Why o why is everything wrong with this game according to NeuralTech? First it was that it was AMAZING that the MOST IMPORTANT PLANE in World War II wasn't in the game (the B17), then it was he couldn't pull a loop(?), now its 109s can do impossible manoeuvres...

Neural please either

1. Play the game for a while to get used to it before shouting off at a game that means a lot to a lot of people, warts and all, or

2. Ask questions in a polite manner rather than insinuating (or outright stating) that people use simple options or changing the cnfig file to get the tracks that you see.

or

3. Stop fishing (and yes I still think he's a troll).