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View Full Version : Is the "Tipperary Song" derogatory towards the Irish?



Col_Tibbetts
04-27-2005, 04:51 PM
A little history question here.

It's a Long Way to Tipperary seems to throw the "Paddy" term around quite a bit. Do the Irish resent this word? Just curious. Some I know say yes, some say no.

It is funny how sensitive we are today to things like this. I am sure very few people at the time this song was popular even thought of a off-the-cuff moniker for a group as politically incorrect. They had a little thing called World War I to worry about instead.

Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Where does the "Paddy" term come from anyway? Is it really that bad?

Col_Tibbetts
04-27-2005, 04:51 PM
A little history question here.

It's a Long Way to Tipperary seems to throw the "Paddy" term around quite a bit. Do the Irish resent this word? Just curious. Some I know say yes, some say no.

It is funny how sensitive we are today to things like this. I am sure very few people at the time this song was popular even thought of a off-the-cuff moniker for a group as politically incorrect. They had a little thing called World War I to worry about instead.

Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

Where does the "Paddy" term come from anyway? Is it really that bad?

missouridrifter
04-27-2005, 05:40 PM
(jokingly)

It's a song about an Irishman braging about the length of his manhood. hahahahahahahaha

(The half-Irish in me thumps chest... the half-Sioux in me laughs at him) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

con20or
04-27-2005, 05:46 PM
well i am Irish, and ive never even listened to the song. anything that is generally referred to as "Oirish" is avoided by real Irish people, its just a tourist thing really.

As for where "paddy" came from I think its just referring to the fact that many Irishmen are called Patrick, which is what "paddy" is short for. Its not a **** over here though, people called patrick are often called Pat or Paddy.

chris455
04-27-2005, 05:56 PM
I'm part Irish and part Scottish.

Half of me wants to get drunk, and the other half doesn't want to pay for it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

missouridrifter
04-27-2005, 06:06 PM
LOL Chris! hahahahahahaha

Bockholt
04-29-2005, 12:44 AM
The song refers to 'Paddy' coming up to 'London Town' and being struck by the sights, but he says 'Goodbye Piccadilly, farewell Leicester Square/It's a long,long way to Tipperary, but my heart's right there' because he still remembers 'the sweetest girl I know' who he's left back home.

It was a hit with the soldiers of WW1, given an added poignancy because, whether Irish, English, Scots or Welsh (or indeed Canadian, American or from another Allied country) they had passed through London, bade those exciting West End places (basically theatreland, the Broadway of London) farewell - and were off to the Western Front.

Being soldiers they changed the sentimental words for a more robust version:

That's the wrong way to tickle Marie,
That's the wrong way to kiss!
Over there they do it like that,
Over here it's done like this!
Hoo-ray pour le Francais, etc.

Because 'Tipperary' implies fighting for the British, you won't hear it in true Republican company - there are plenty of fine IRA tunes - but it's a bit like 'Danny Boy', kind of everybody's song.

Tomus
04-29-2005, 02:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Col_Tibbetts:
Where does the "Paddy" term come from anyway? Is it really that bad? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paddy is just a shortened version of Patrick. And as so many people were called Patrick in Ireland then they became know as Paddy's.

Its more of an affectionate term than derogatory, most of my Irish friends and relatives like being called Paddy or at least don't mind it. Its the same as calling a New Zealander a Kiwi or a Scot a Jock or a American a Yank.

mightyduck100
04-29-2005, 04:40 AM
Its the same for an Englishman Everybody affectionately calls us f**king w**kers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S VIIC_41
04-29-2005, 05:01 AM
Nah, it's just a song.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Where does the "Paddy" term come from anyway? Is it really that bad? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

St. Patrick no doubt, or the fact that Patrick (and hence Paddy) used to be a common name here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Because 'Tipperary' implies fighting for the British </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why's that?

EDIT: Oh wait, never mind.

JuanCudz
04-29-2005, 06:10 AM
'Paddy' comes from the gaelic 'padraig' which is anglified to patrick

Bockholt
04-29-2005, 06:26 AM
According to Flann O'Brien:

Sure and the Blessed Saint Patrick got rid of all the spalpeen snakes & serpents in Ireland by flooding the whole island (having warned the people, cows, stoats, dogs, cats & pigs to hide on their cottage roofs & up any convenient tall trees). So when the little slippery divels was all drowned, down came the newly-Christian Irish to their flooded (but miraculously snakeless) fields.

'Whatever can we grow here, 'tis all soggy bog, Your Saintliness?' they asked the Holy Fellow.

'Why? Rice of course,' says he, handing them a bushel or two.

And now you know why they're called Paddy Fields...

S VIIC_41
04-29-2005, 07:32 AM
Heh...

Franzen
04-29-2005, 07:45 AM
Hey, I like Guiness so I can post here,........ but I really have nothing to say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

axeman3d
04-29-2005, 08:32 AM
It's not derogatory as such, just a bit of gentle fun from everyones favourite racists, the English. We are all guilty of racial stereotyping, the English have their Irish jokes, the Americans have their Polish jokes and we Scots have our English jokes.

Also...
Americans - Yanks, loud, thick, jingoistic
Irish - Paddys, thick, thick, guiness
Scots - Jocks, tightwads, drunks, violent
Welsh - Dai/Boyo, all miners, singers
English - W**kers

It's not meant as a bad thing, just a bit of harmless fun. However I should point out that if you call a Scotsman 'Scotch' then that's actually an American word for whisky and not the word 'Scots' which is the correct term. You will get a smack in the face for that.

Franzen
04-29-2005, 09:37 AM
I'm feeling kinda left out here. What about stereotypes for Canadians? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

The_Third_Half
04-29-2005, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Franzen:
I'm feeling kinda left out here. What about stereotypes for Canadians? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ice-Backs

Franzen
04-29-2005, 09:56 AM
Ha ha ha, "ice-backs", never heard that one before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Fritz Franzen

Indianer.
04-29-2005, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mightyduck100:
Its the same for an Englishman Everybody affectionately calls us f**king w**kers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lmfao......


My friends and I all fall into that catagory.

Twelvefield
04-29-2005, 11:55 AM
The stereotype for Canadians... hmmm...

Well, the world calls us "Canucks", and we say "aboot" and "eh?" a lot... sorry if I am offending anyone here... I mean, I apologize. Please, could anyone on this forum who is American tell us what the true north Canadian stereotype is? Thank you for your consideration. And again... sorry. No, wait, I mean, please accept my apology. Thanks, eh?

Pr0metheus 1962
04-29-2005, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bockholt:
Because 'Tipperary' implies fighting for the British, you won't hear it in true Republican company - there are plenty of fine IRA tunes - but it's a bit like 'Danny Boy', kind of everybody's song. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the f***ing provos probably prefer 'Willie McBride' (the 1916 Easter Rising version).

con20or
04-29-2005, 02:48 PM
Careful beeryus, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gifthis started off as a harmless thread about whether a song is derogatory towards the irish, and the road your starting down will do just that.

p.s. dont forget to make sure you have enough tar for your brush.

Nukem_Hicks
04-29-2005, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twelvefield:
The stereotype for Canadians... hmmm...

Well, the world calls us "Canucks", and we say "aboot" and "eh?" a lot... sorry if I am offending anyone here... I mean, I apologize. Please, could anyone on this forum who is American tell us what the true north Canadian stereotype is? Thank you for your consideration. And again... sorry. No, wait, I mean, please accept my apology. Thanks, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spent spring break down in Puerto Vallerta and there were more Canadians at our resort than any other nationality, so we got to know them quite well. A few observations to answer your question (as an American):

1. Those boys can drink. As a bunch of American college kids, we were pretty proud of our drinking feats. Until we met them. I've never seen anything like it.

2. The women are nymphos. Maybe it was just the selection at the resort we attended, but I didn't meet a single Canadian woman there who wan't eager to get laid multiple times on the trip.

3. The old dudes drink more than the young dudes, believe it or not.

4. An older Canadian gentleman put it perfectly: "You young Yanks are cool and all, but you're too busy rescuing the world from itself to really enjoy life. We Canucks just drink ourselves to death, and that's the only real way to live."

Bockholt
04-29-2005, 03:30 PM
Ach! In that near-victorious year, 1917, Bockholt tried to make a certain 'delivery' to our Irish allies - a delivery which might have liberated them from the Englanders and saved all Europa!

But I must tell you, they are a nation, first & foremost, of Romantic Poets, not of mindless killers! Mein Gott! And I gave them the guns & explosives, but what did those Hibernians do? Maybe I shall one day tell you this story...

Who are the efficient, ruthless, fighting nation of Europe? Not the poetic Irish. Not the bombastic French (-!- pah!). Not we music-loving, chocolate-guzzling Germans, alas. No! It is the Verdammt English + their horrid Scottish & Welsh friends. The finest soldiers, sailors & airmen on earth...Krutziturken! Foiled AGAIN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Bockholt
04-29-2005, 03:35 PM
P.S. I know you are a bunch of ugly fellows, & this site is a female dog in which to post avatars, images, etc. but where are your Pictures, guys?

You have the weekend to sort this out! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
04-29-2005, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by con20or:
Careful beeryus, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gifthis started off as a harmless thread about whether a song is derogatory towards the irish, and the road your starting down will do just that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not all Irish are provos. Most of them hate the provos as much as I do.

Franzen
04-29-2005, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twelvefield:
The stereotype for Canadians... hmmm...

Well, the world calls us "Canucks", and we say "aboot" and "eh?" a lot... sorry if I am offending anyone here... I mean, I apologize. Please, could anyone on this forum who is American tell us what the true north Canadian stereotype is? Thank you for your consideration. And again... sorry. No, wait, I mean, please accept my apology. Thanks, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Twelvefield, that's basically a Toronto thing. When I moved to N.S. they made the same jokes you just mentioned, you know what I mean eh. Brutal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Since I've been away for a few years living and dealing with different people in different countries I've lost my T.O. accent. When I go to Canada now people in T.O. and N.S. ask me where I'm from. They say I seem to have no accent.

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
04-29-2005, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nukem_Hicks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twelvefield:
The stereotype for Canadians... hmmm...

Well, the world calls us "Canucks", and we say "aboot" and "eh?" a lot... sorry if I am offending anyone here... I mean, I apologize. Please, could anyone on this forum who is American tell us what the true north Canadian stereotype is? Thank you for your consideration. And again... sorry. No, wait, I mean, please accept my apology. Thanks, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spent spring break down in Puerto Vallerta and there were more Canadians at our resort than any other nationality, so we got to know them quite well. A few observations to answer your question (as an American):

1. Those boys can drink. As a bunch of American college kids, we were pretty proud of our drinking feats. Until we met them. I've never seen anything like it.

2. The women are nymphos. Maybe it was just the selection at the resort we attended, but I didn't meet a single Canadian woman there who wan't eager to get laid multiple times on the trip.

3. The old dudes drink more than the young dudes, believe it or not.

4. An older Canadian gentleman put it perfectly: "You young Yanks are cool and all, but you're too busy rescuing the world from itself to really enjoy life. We Canucks just drink ourselves to death, and that's the only real way to live." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nukem,

1. I don't consider myself a drinker. Unless it's a social thing, I never drink alone. Canadian look down on those who drink alone. When I was in Germany I got invited to a lot of parties. These guys drink often but can't hold much. Their mission was to get me drunk, breakout the make-up and take the photos meant to embarrass me the next day. ha ha ha, at the end of the night I was the only one taking pictures. They could never understand why I can drink so much. It's simple, where I'm from we don't drink regularly but when we drink we drink a lot. I think those that drink regularly cannot hold as much alcohol.

2. I recently read about a internation survey. It seems Canadians have sex more often than any other nation. My theory is simple; second largest country in the world, so many hiding places, and the CBC is pretty bad.

3. The elderly guyz are veterans and have perfected the art. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

4. I think the elderly guy often drinks alone. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I found in Toronto they seem to drink more often, and not so much. On the east coast we drink less often but much greater amounts. We consider ourselves "weekend warriors". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Fritz Franzen

Arms1
04-29-2005, 08:27 PM
Wow Franzen your observations are a definate shock to me, most of the east coasters that i work with drink more daily, weekly and yearly than the non-easterners i know, moderation does not seem to be a part of thier vocabulary; fortunately the boy's at work have declared me an honourary "Newfie" and i am free to join in thier daily libations.

con20or
04-30-2005, 04:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by con20or:
Careful beeryus, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gifthis started off as a harmless thread about whether a song is derogatory towards the irish, and the road your starting down will do just that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not all Irish are provos. Most of them hate the provos as much as I do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

pretty much ALL of us. Except for a few lunatics. But hey, it must be great to be a fanatic. You're never wrong!!

Franzen
04-30-2005, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arms1:
Wow Franzen your observations are a definate shock to me, most of the east coasters that i work with drink more daily, weekly and yearly than the non-easterners i know, moderation does not seem to be a part of thier vocabulary; fortunately the boy's at work have declared me an honourary "Newfie" and i am free to join in thier daily libations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, I'm from NS. The Newfies are a complete breed of their own. I love partying with Newfies, they are the best. They are so good natured and care little about internation nonsense and politics.

Also, you'll find Cape Bretoners to be somewhat like the Newfies. This reminds me of a joke.

There was this newfie that jumped in his dory and rowed to Cape Breton. He drank a lot and caused a ruckus. He got into a scrap with a Cape Bretoner and beat him silly. Before the Cape Bretoners could catch him he jumped back in his dory and headed home, into the fog.

The Cape Bretoners, about 300, jumped into their dories and headed off into the fog to take vengence. After two days none of the Cape Bretoners returned. So more Cape Bretoners jumped into their dories to findout what happened. As they nearer the Newfie shores they found nothing but floating debri, corpses, and body parts. They did however find one Cape Bretoner barely alive clinging to a piece of driftwood.

They pulled the near dead Cape Bretoner into the dory and asked him what happened. All he said, with his last breath, was, "Go back, there are two of them". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

They are true partiers. Tain't much else to do on the rock. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Feathered_IV
04-30-2005, 05:55 AM
I saw a documentary on WW1 where one old fellow said tipperary was a famous brothel.

Btw - Isn't the song about a Knicknack Paddy-Whack about getting drunk and beating the indiginous Irish with a piece of your grandfathers antique weaponry? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bockholt
04-30-2005, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bockholt:
In Bockholt's opinion, both the Irish and the Canadians are fine fellows for drinking & fighting - and the one nation has magnificent, beautiful women too (but I would not upset anyone by stating which, so you'll just have to figure it out for yourselves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

Maybe one day I'll tell you about my 'delivery' to northwest Ireland back in '17; but in the meantime you'll all be interested in this relevant tale of humanity & heroism:

http://ted.examiner.ie/archives/1999/december/30/opinionpage_2.htm (http://ted.examiner.ie/archives/1999/december/30/opinionpage) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Franzen
05-01-2005, 02:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bockholt:
Maybe one day I'll tell you about my 'delivery' to northwest Ireland back in '17
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bockholt, can I ask your age or am I missing an impotant piece of information here?

Sometimes you confuse me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
05-01-2005, 03:01 AM
Hey, since we are on the topic of stereotypes, I want to dispell one about the Germans.

"Germans are not so open and friendly. They are hard to get to know"

I can tell you from personal experience that it's a crock.

I just spent 4 months in Germany mostly in the Frankisch area, near Bamberg/Colburg. Being a German growing up in Canada I've heard this stereotype so many times. November last year was my first time to visit Germany and with this stereotype in mind I figured I would have to make an extra effort.
On my first free day I visited a local cafe. BTW, a cafe in this area is actually a coffeeshop/pub hybrid.A "Kneiper" is a pub/restaurant Hybrid, with American rock'n roll. A "Gastof" is an Inn, without the American music.
Back to the point, I sat at the bar in the cafe and watched the people interact for about an hour. I could have stayed invisible; no one took notice of my presence unless my beerglass was empty. I decided to make conversation with the very attractive barmaid(the inspiration was there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) and in no time everyone was making conversation with me. They turned out to be very open and friendly people!
From this I realized the stereotype was actually a reflection of the people who quote it. In Germany, from my experience, you can sit in the same cafe/kneiper/gastof for many years and not meet anyone. You must make the first move; the Germans won't. They are reserved in this area.
From that day on I had invitations everyday. I miss everyone I met there and I met so many people. And when I had problems or needed help everyone is more than willing to help me.

Best of all, the very attractive Barmaid is now my gf and in a few months I will relocate to the same area to run my business from there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The stereotype "Germans love their beer" is an understatement. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Germans say "Beer is bread."

Having visited and lived in a few countries around the world, I've realized that many stereotypes are actually more relative to the people making them.

I'm currently living in China and have been here 5 years. Give me some stereotypes about Chinese and I'll try to confirm or dispell them. The truth is out there,.....somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Prost!
Fritz Franzen

Bockholt
05-01-2005, 04:17 PM
Prosit Fritz! You may be stuck in China, but at least you have a lovely German girlfriend! And you know good beer - remember the schnapps chaser with every half litre...it must go down in one!

How old is Bockholt? they ask. I am as old as my tongue & a little bit older than my teeth.

One day I'll tell you about the time I took that delivery to Mr. Ryan's daughter, up in Donegal.
"Patriot games" they called it - ha! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif