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View Full Version : What HOMM V should take from previus parts



Darkuss1983
04-04-2005, 06:35 AM
Hi. I've no idea if we do have any impact on the design process but I think it's worth a try.

Let us write in this topic things that made Heroes 3 and Heroes 4 great in your eyes, things that if were abondend would be in your opinion a step in wrong direction.

Here are my views:

From Heroes 4:
- simultaneous damage distribution. Finaly battle result did not depend on whose stack attacked first.
- Uniquity of creatures. Every creature has unique special abilities, wheres in heroes 3 many creature where strongly alike, difrences were only in texture and slightly in statistics. It becames boring after a while :/

From heroes 3:
- uniquity of heroes. Specialities and diffrent starting skill packages should return.

Well, that's about it. While posting remebre that heroes 5 should not be a remake of heroes 3 or 4 but a new game based on those games. Leave place for changes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

UndeadDontDie
04-04-2005, 06:44 AM
For starters (as I can't think of much right now):
From Heroes of Might and Magic III:
- The magic system, four schools of magic (Fire, Air, Water and Earth) which you can specialize in to make them function more powerfuly.
- The none simultaneous attack system, I liked how one units attacked before the other as it allowed some more strategies based upon hitting first etc.
From Heroes of Might and Magic IV:
- Necromancy, I liked how it generated Vampires instead of Skeletons at the highest level of profficiency.

EDIT: Signature gone insane...

Wurtzel1952
04-04-2005, 06:58 AM
Undoubtably (excuse the spelling) from HOMM4 the caravan, with perhaps the added ability for players to set "caravan stops" on the map. This way a player could set a caravan destination to a specific point as well as a town.

karlito31
04-04-2005, 07:56 AM
From H4:
simultaneous damage
heroes on battlefield
magic system
fog of war
creature choices

from H3

... well , there must be something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LegendReborn
04-04-2005, 09:10 AM
From Heroes of Might and Magic III:

- The non simultaneous attack system, as it added a bit of strategy ad allowed for some unique gameplay.

- The less idiotic AI

- The Hero OFF the battlefield (as a good commander should be)

- The better castle fortifications, and siege combat (make being in a town important). I wouldn't mind giving bonuses to your creatures and having them have posts to fill like in HOMM4 as well...

- Unique heroes

- Wide variety of creature choices / creature upgrades

From HOMM 4

- The caravan system, however with units only able to go to specific destinations, and without being able to explore or attack by themselves (though they should be able to defend) *** I like the earlier posters suggestion of having caravan destinations waypointable ***

- Unique creature abilities

- Thats all that was good in 4

;-P

Val-Gaav
04-04-2005, 12:32 PM
From h3
_ Ai
_ The hero off battlefield !!!!!!!
_ necromancy (vampires in h4 were too much)
_ the whole combat system (combat sucked in h4 !!!)
_Aligment and the whole basic idea of towns ... for example Rampart in h3 has a unique atmosphere while Preserve in h4 sucks ...


From h4
_fog of war
_special abbilities for every castle . In h3 only Necromancer had necromancy . In h4 there were new skills for other castles : summoning, diplomacy , nobility , ressurection ... This was a very good idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NECRO95
04-04-2005, 12:40 PM
From H3
2 words, Creature Feature!!!
There are so many creatures mix and matches that you can have that the strategy seems limitless when placing the creatures!
But I personally feel that the balance is not really there. Whoever gets the Archangels or Black Dragons will have too much of an unfair advantage...
The diversity of the town is cool 2!

From H4
The magic system and spells, just love it!
Also, the fact that the hero can be trained and fight on the field...
Town bonus from the grail

Omega_Destroyer
04-04-2005, 04:26 PM
From Heroes 3-
The ability to purchase every creature structure. While picking between two options had its moments, there were many units that I would end up over another, like genies over nagas.
Individual character abilities.

From Heroes 4-
Being able to have a hero fight in the battle
The ability to have mutliple heroes in an army.
(yeah, I know the above two are more than likely not going to be in the game, but I can dream.)
The magic system. It just seemed to make more sense.
And not having to upgrade your units.

loonyjoe
04-04-2005, 04:28 PM
from h3:
-non simultaneous attack system and/or resurrection spell (i was furious that some of my troops were always dying and i couldn't do anything about it...)
-hero off the battlefield
-creatures upgrades and their number...
-magic system
-special hero abilities

from h4:
-the ability of some troops to cast various spells!
-caravans
-well, let it be: fog of war but there should be some buildings like watchtower that can be controlled and that reveal some part of the map for good
-necromancy, but i'd like to be able to turn the fallen creatures into skeletons whenever i wish...

lostn
04-05-2005, 04:48 AM
I want Heroes to play the part they did in H2 and H3. As in they stand there, and confer skill bonuses to troops. They should not be able to attack. They weren't very balanced anyway, because they don't scale up to units in greater numbers.

I like the idea of no unit upgrades, ala H4.

Heroes should be required, to lead an army. No hero-less armies ala H4. One can split there stacks into infinite smaller stacks and just generally annoy people by reclaiming all the mines when someone takes them. It's impractical to hunt them all down, and it allows for infinite movement if you can place that many single stacks of units all over the place. Each one has their own movement, so you can move so many stacks each turn, it just becomes a pain to go after them all. Requiring a hero to lead an army reduces that.

The magic system should work like H4, though H3's is ok too.

The heroes should each be unique and have some unique skill like in H3 (the +350 gold per day heroes for instance were popular). That at least distinguishes them. The H4 heroes were all generic and lack personality.

The way unit abilities are used in battle should be like in H4. In H3, a stack of angels could only cast resurrection once. So you needed to split your stacks in two if you wanted to use resurrection twice. The way it was done in H4 is better.

I don't mind the idea of having to choose units each level in H4. Either way doesn't bother me.

I don't want the fog of war. That works better in a RTS than it does a TBS. Scouting is not near as free in a TBS. If the game allows the zoomed in perspective of the screenshots, I don't even see how they can make fog of war possible. That only works in a birds eye view from above.

I want attacking and retaliating to not be siumulataneous like it is in H4. That just causes too many casualties and makes ranged units even more desireable.

Something else from H4 that I'd like them NOT to do is with the towns. Don't make the town's interior look dependent on the terrain it sits on. That just robs the town of its inherent character. Necropolis should always be in some dark, desolate wasteland, and the nature town should always be in bright lush green grass, and inferno should be on a fiery volcanic lands, etc... Making it vary based on its terrain makes it look generic and removes uniqueness.

I'd like to be able to remove an unwanted skill. If you're given choices both of which suck, you're stuck with them.

And I'd like Archangels to be the best unit in the game, ala H3. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Or perhaps for there to be no such thing as a clear cut best unit. While AA's had the best stats, they did not have the highest HP. So maybe that is one way to balance it? No unit would have clear cut the best stats. If the Black Dragon is to be the king again, its speed should be very slow to balance it.

Come to think of it, i'd be totally happy if they just gave us H3 and built on it, the same way H3 built on H2. H4 should be left as an abberation in the series. A few elements from it should be taken, but it should not be used as the benchmark to work with.

Ethric
04-05-2005, 05:02 AM
most important for me would be: The unique towns from H2, the hero-specialities from H3, the (magic) skillsystem and the fighting heroes of H4.

Salventus
04-05-2005, 07:38 AM
Didn't like the fact that creatures roamed around the map in the mid and end games because it really slowed the game down and sometimes the AI packs the most powerful creatures without a Hero and it would be easy to defeat it an army with a Hero. Also, at the end game when we defeat an opponent why are those creatures with the particular alignment still carrying the flag and roaming the map for no reason !!! It just slows the game and its a pain to chase them down !

simon_cowell
04-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Structure/creature upgrades from HoMM 3 - GOOD
Having to make a choice between structures/creatures - also GOOD

So which one is better? ... Why not use both features? Why not have a unique development tree for each town? At some point you may have to choose what to build. And still you'll have the ability to upgrade some structures.

Just don't have upgrades for everything just for the sake of upgrades. If upgraded unit gets its name by adding "battle" or "royal" to the original name, this is NOT a good upgrade. On the other hand upgrade of bowmen to sharpshooters, for example, makes total sense. You can even tie the ability to make certain upgrades to the level or skill of the hero.

AND for god's sake, limit the amount of stuff (like artefacts) a hero can carry. On large map in HoMM 4 you can spend an hour trying to find something in your backpack or to get rid of cr*p.

Vicheron
04-05-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostn:
Heroes should be required, to lead an army. No hero-less armies ala H4. One can split there stacks into infinite smaller stacks and just generally annoy people by reclaiming all the mines when someone takes them. It's impractical to hunt them all down, and it allows for infinite movement if you can place that many single stacks of units all over the place. Each one has their own movement, so you can move so many stacks each turn, it just becomes a pain to go after them all. Requiring a hero to lead an army reduces that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can only have a maximum of 8 armies in Heroes 4 and Heroless armies can't claim mines or capture towns.

Campaigner_1st
04-05-2005, 04:37 PM
Heroes III:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Non-simultaneous combat system
<LI> Hero special abilities (and penalties?)
<LI> Hero only armies

Heroes IV:
<LI> Fog of War
<LI> Maybe caravans

New things:
<LI> Skill & spell system
<LI> Upgrades AND choices (completely chaotic like in Heroes II)
<LI> Overall balance. Every town should be completely different but should have good chances against eachother at some instance.[/list]

simon_cowell
04-05-2005, 04:56 PM
Can someone explain to me what was the problem with heroes fighting on the battlefield?
Everybody says "it ruined the balance". How so? Last time I checked BOTH SIDES had heroes on the battlefield. I mean, if your hero sucks, it is your problem, you should have leveled him up. If somebody comes with 100 dragons and you have 3 peasants, does this "ruin the balance"?

Some say heroes are too weak, they are easy pray. Some say heroes are too powerful, you don't need an army. Well, yes they are weak in the beginning, and they get more and more powerful as game progresses. Isn't it exactly the way it is supposed to be???

Some say it is nor realistic, hero is always on the side, barking orders, and casting spells. NO. We are talking about A HERO. Did you see that little movie LOTR? They all were fighting.

Blackjack_77
04-05-2005, 05:13 PM
Decaf, Simon. Decaf.

The-Filth
04-05-2005, 05:24 PM
I'd like to see a couple of heroes from earlier games come back. Sandro has to come back. And this time he shouldnt wear such a stupid looking hat as he did in homm 4. The other hero i want to see in Homm 5 is Kastore from homm 2. He was one of the favourite heroes of mine in that game.

Campaigner_1st
04-05-2005, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by simon_cowell:
Can someone explain to me what was the problem with heroes fighting on the battlefield?
Everybody says "it ruined the balance". How so? Last time I checked BOTH SIDES had heroes on the battlefield. I mean, if your hero sucks, it is your problem, you should have leveled him up. If somebody comes with 100 dragons and you have 3 peasants, does this "ruin the balance"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heroes became oneman armies which could take on entire armies by themselves, making creatures less important.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by simon_cowell:
Some say heroes are too weak, they are easy pray. Some say heroes are too powerful, you don't need an army. Well, yes they are weak in the beginning, and they get more and more powerful as game progresses. Isn't it exactly the way it is supposed to be???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Logically you're right. Practically you're wrong. After about 8 lvls of Combat and Melee skills Barbarians doesn't need armies anymore to kill packs of lvl 3 creatures. Add in an IM potion to make that lots.

Wurtzel1952
04-05-2005, 07:07 PM
Another thing that I'd like to see from Heroes3 (and to a lesser degree, Heroes4) is the combination artifacts. While some may argue that they make a hero/army too powerfull they would certainly open up the scope for map makers with regards to quests ect...

grumpy_dwarf
04-05-2005, 07:46 PM
Heroes 3
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Upgrade of Units
Number of Units
Hex Option for Battlefield
Shade Option for Battlefield
Castle Seige[/list]
Heroes 4
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>Heroes ON the Battlefield-stronger at first/weaker at end
Caravans-to Adventure Grid?
Skill Classes for Heroes
Stacks with Spells[/list]

I always thought that the Might Heroes off the battlefield were kind of useless and definetly worse off than the Magic Heroes..

Mike447a
04-05-2005, 08:16 PM
maybe I will RE-answer later...

but 2 or 3 things....

1st -------
I don't want enemy creatures surfing alone on map without heroes. (like H4)

2nd -------
number total of creatures nearly like H3 (120-140 creatures)

3rd -------
heroes on battlefield ??? yes BUT... NO MORE than 1 by army - the leader ONLY.
(I don't want to see again an army of 5-7 heroes !! which seems more like a Dungeon&Dragons aventurers party !!!)

ONLY the leader.

4th -------
the zoom and camera free of H5 !!! hihihihihi

5th -------
no spell like Dimention Door or Flying !!! (H3-H4)
(really hate this !!!)
nor items that permits this ! (H3-H4??)

6th -------
yes to caravans of H4 BUT real on map !
(if I want to ambush an enemy caravan ... GO GO GO!)

7th -------
7 level (or even 8) of creatures (H3)

8th -------
An editor more like H3 (less complicated than learning to script)
In my life , I've made tons of H3 maps ... but NONE of H4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif everytime I was mind-blasted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

9th -------
stack experience (like WoG hehehe)

10th ------
each color play at ITS turn (no matter if it's a player or computer)
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal

NOT : all humans and after all computers !!!!!!!!! NOT NOT NOT !

------------

hihihihi euh... sorry if I put more than 2 or 3 things hihihi

Ghasteater
04-06-2005, 01:10 AM
from 3-rd heroes better take

1) Hero specializations.
2) Townhall CityHall Capitol building
3) Fortifications and siege... (Maybe better some mix with plases for archers too)

from 2-nd Heroes
1) penalty on upgrade of unapgraded units need to make decicions Nopt build all then upgrade all

from 3-rd heroes
1) Aligment relationships and dependance morale even of leading hero
2) Heroes recruiting system.
a) hero recruited without monsters
b) 1 hero per town per week (Not 7 days pass)
c) Hereoes of cetrain alignmens available to recruit fro different prices
3) Option for archers om melee attack garpies to strike, may be other special attacks (For example crusaders can have choise whirlwind attack for all adjasent enemies without retalation or siple doble strike)
4) Building (Gate) Hitpoints
5) Various types of defense (Slashing Crushing pircing) and attack (Was ranged and melee)
6) Diiference between speeed and iniociative
7) Retalation generates not at the begining of every turn and not full roun after las retaliate as in 4, but when unit get action.

Vavutsikarios
04-06-2005, 02:01 AM
From homm3:

- The non simultaneous attack system, as it added a bit of strategy and allowed for some unique gameplay.

- The better castle fortifications, and siege combat (make being in a town important).

- Hero special abilities


- the style of the visuals


From homm4:

- The caravan system

Heroine_LL
04-06-2005, 03:12 AM
-a pop up screen when you go into battle which asks play battle normally or quick combat(wog).

-quick combat as it worked in H3 (or even better ofcourse). H4 qc sucked.

-town portal (as in H3)

-caravans

-elemental magic

-low system specs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-hero specialties

-heavy town defenses and every town it's own special

-stack experience (wog)

-creature upgrades ofcourse (some more than 1 upgrade as dragons H2)

-buy all creatures button

-spell power

-skills that improve movement

-A good number of town buildings H3 but building one excludes another H4

-music that makes you cry so beautiful

-the undefinable HoMM addiction factor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

AzureSlayer
04-06-2005, 03:35 AM
Unique Heroes
Unique Towns
Unique abilities to creatures
Creatures that can gain xp&level
Town defence that gain level& have more attack each week(because they become useless after a few months)
And i think there should be more upgrades to creatures 2 maybe

Mike447a
04-06-2005, 10:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike447a:
maybe I will RE-answer later...

but 2 or 3 things....

1st -------
I don't want enemy creatures surfing alone on map without heroes. (like H4)

2nd -------
number total of creatures nearly like H3 (120-140 creatures)

3rd -------
heroes on battlefield ??? yes BUT... NO MORE than 1 by army - the leader ONLY.
(I don't want to see again an army of 5-7 heroes !! which seems more like a Dungeon&Dragons aventurers party !!!)

ONLY the leader.

4th -------
the zoom and camera free of H5 !!! hihihihihi

5th -------
no spell like Dimention Door or Flying !!! (H3-H4)
(really hate this !!!)
nor items that permits this ! (H3-H4??)

6th -------
yes to caravans of H4 BUT real on map !
(if I want to ambush an enemy caravan ... GO GO GO!)

7th -------
7 level (or even 8) of creatures (H3)

8th -------
An editor more like H3 (less complicated than learning to script)
In my life , I've made tons of H3 maps ... but NONE of H4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif everytime I was mind-blasted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

9th -------
stack experience (like WoG hehehe)

10th ------
each color play at ITS turn (no matter if it's a player or computer)
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal
red, blue, green, orange, pink, teal

NOT : all humans and after all computers !!!!!!!!! NOT NOT NOT !

------------
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another thing !!!!!!!!

11 : A Square Map !!!!!!! not lozange (or diamond)