PDA

View Full Version : Ideas about: Transport, Recon, ASW and night fighting in BOB



avimimus
09-25-2004, 02:03 PM
I was thinking about all the interesting aircraft in BOB and the clear intention of making it the first of a long line of sims based off of its engine.

Given the variety of aircraft that have been made by the third party for Il-2. I think it would be a good idea to have a discussion about what features Oleg might want to consider being ready to someday add to make it more enjoyable to fly in non-daylight fighter/bomber roles
(I'll start the discussion going):

Night:
-Navigation aids (so copilot can give you vector toward base etc.)
-Flares (for target marking and illumination)
-Countermeasures (eg. ability to someday calculate the effects of jamming and window on ground and air radars)
-Airborne Searchlights (both visual and possibly IR scopes)
-Better modeling of fatigue and night vision (the "eyes" of your pilot should gradually adjust to darkness, -this is very important)

-Radar interfaces do not actually need to be modelled. Instead verbal messages from your radar operator or ground control could be used. This could allow a few calculations to model amost all radar and warning devices of the war.

-A similar system could be used to model visual spotting by other crew members in your aircraft or flight:
Day-time Visual vectoring by aircraft in squadron (eg. "two destroyers and a transport 11 O'clock low" with an update: "There's another boat at two O'clock", or if the person is uncertain "I think its could be another tanker, three O'clock")

Much of this could be scripted by the third party if Oleg did the code.

ASW:
-Searchlights (again)
-Radar operator (just like the above but anti-ship)
-magnetic or sonar systems (any sensor system could be modeled using verbal messages like with radar)
-depth charges (with selectable depth settings)
-Visual tracking (by spotter, which could be handled verbally)

Search and rescue:
-Ability to load survivors onto a seaplane?
-Visual spotters in your crew

Ground spotting/observation/artillery spotting:
-Visual Tracking (this might be more fun if it was interactive)

Recon:
-Fixed cameras (and maybe mobile cameras eventually)
-Black and White mode with modeling ofmotion blur

-System to identify if a type of target was successfully photographed (if important items set in the mission builder are in one of the photos you get points and if the photo is not blurred by manuevering you get more points)

Transpor/Liason:
-Ability to drop supply canisters
-Modeling changes in center of gravity with different loads
-Ability to animate unloading of carago?
-Better weather model (which changes over time)


So what does everyone think? Should aircraft like the Ju-52, Lysander and Catalina be modeled in their best roles, if so how?

When we are done hopefully someone who is respectable can translate the most important parts and send a summary to Oleg.

Thank you
-Avimimus

avimimus
09-25-2004, 02:03 PM
I was thinking about all the interesting aircraft in BOB and the clear intention of making it the first of a long line of sims based off of its engine.

Given the variety of aircraft that have been made by the third party for Il-2. I think it would be a good idea to have a discussion about what features Oleg might want to consider being ready to someday add to make it more enjoyable to fly in non-daylight fighter/bomber roles
(I'll start the discussion going):

Night:
-Navigation aids (so copilot can give you vector toward base etc.)
-Flares (for target marking and illumination)
-Countermeasures (eg. ability to someday calculate the effects of jamming and window on ground and air radars)
-Airborne Searchlights (both visual and possibly IR scopes)
-Better modeling of fatigue and night vision (the "eyes" of your pilot should gradually adjust to darkness, -this is very important)

-Radar interfaces do not actually need to be modelled. Instead verbal messages from your radar operator or ground control could be used. This could allow a few calculations to model amost all radar and warning devices of the war.

-A similar system could be used to model visual spotting by other crew members in your aircraft or flight:
Day-time Visual vectoring by aircraft in squadron (eg. "two destroyers and a transport 11 O'clock low" with an update: "There's another boat at two O'clock", or if the person is uncertain "I think its could be another tanker, three O'clock")

Much of this could be scripted by the third party if Oleg did the code.

ASW:
-Searchlights (again)
-Radar operator (just like the above but anti-ship)
-magnetic or sonar systems (any sensor system could be modeled using verbal messages like with radar)
-depth charges (with selectable depth settings)
-Visual tracking (by spotter, which could be handled verbally)

Search and rescue:
-Ability to load survivors onto a seaplane?
-Visual spotters in your crew

Ground spotting/observation/artillery spotting:
-Visual Tracking (this might be more fun if it was interactive)

Recon:
-Fixed cameras (and maybe mobile cameras eventually)
-Black and White mode with modeling ofmotion blur

-System to identify if a type of target was successfully photographed (if important items set in the mission builder are in one of the photos you get points and if the photo is not blurred by manuevering you get more points)

Transpor/Liason:
-Ability to drop supply canisters
-Modeling changes in center of gravity with different loads
-Ability to animate unloading of carago?
-Better weather model (which changes over time)


So what does everyone think? Should aircraft like the Ju-52, Lysander and Catalina be modeled in their best roles, if so how?

When we are done hopefully someone who is respectable can translate the most important parts and send a summary to Oleg.

Thank you
-Avimimus

owlwatcher
09-25-2004, 02:57 PM
Good ideas all across the board.
Most have been discussed before in one way or another.

It would be great to be able recreate a para or glider drop with the different loads.
As you stated
Ability to drop supply canisters
also weapons canisters
drop messages
pickup wounded
light tanks

Pick up gliders

All would be nice to have.

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2004, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Night:
-Navigation aids (so copilot can give you vector toward base etc.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Need realistic and correct star positions, star brightness, and star colours. LOMAC may be the First to model the night sky over a flight sim. Pilots who knew their stars could do basic navigation at night with no instruments--at least above the clouds, if any. In LOMAC one can use just the stars to navigate, but also knowing what time it is (stars appear to "revolve" about the Earth like the Sun does).

I hope Oleg keeps the 1/2 degree apparent size of the FB moon, and not make it Giant Arcade Gaming Moon like other flight sims--way too big. Need real moon phases though...like a date of mission that changes the BoB Moon's position and phase.

Philipscdrw
09-25-2004, 04:44 PM
I like that idea about the radar. A similar thing for the navigator would also be very useful.

csThor
09-26-2004, 10:24 AM
The problem is IMO that nightfighting in the sense you guys see it did not happen during BoB. At that time there were the first tiny attempts at organized nightfighting. The organzied ground controlled night interception did not really happen before mid to late 1942.

hop2002
09-26-2004, 12:13 PM
The RAF did have a system of ground controlled intercept as suggested above in use during the night blitz in late 1940 and early 1941.

A controller would look at the information from the ground based radar, and use it to vector a night fighter to within range of a bomber. The radar operator in the night fighter would then take over and guide the pilot to the bomber.

LEXX_Luthor
09-26-2004, 12:19 PM
When did Beaufighter start night intercept missions over the Islands?

hop2002
09-26-2004, 12:30 PM
September 1940. Before that (and for some time after as well) the RAF were using Blenheim "fighters" equipped with radar as night fighters.

The first kill made with the use of onboard radar was July 1940, the first by a Beaufighter using onboard radar was November 1940.

The nightfighters were pretty ineffective in 1940, but began to score quite well in March/April/May 1941.

LEXX_Luthor
09-26-2004, 12:40 PM
Hey ~thanks~ for sharing that.

avimimus
09-26-2004, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:
The problem is IMO that nightfighting in the sense you guys see it did not happen during BoB. At that time there were the first tiny attempts at organized nightfighting. The organzied ground controlled night interception did not really happen before mid to late 1942. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by hop 2002
The RAF did have a system of ground controlled intercept as suggested above in use during the night blitz in late 1940 and early 1941.

A controller would look at the information from the ground based radar, and use it to vector a night fighter to within range of a bomber. The radar operator in the night fighter would then take over and guide the pilot to the bomber. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The important thing is not just BOB, Oleg Maddox has indicated that he intends to use the BOB engine as the base for a whole family of sims, built over at least half a decade.

This is based off of several quotes he made and I have been watching how he works since Il-2 had only two flyable fighters back in 1999/2000.

So we it would be prudent to think of the as of yet unmodeled night warfare over German, even up to Bv215s in '46!

Then ground control becomes very important (and RAF special planes making fake and missleading conversiations to try to missdirect night fighters as well!)

About Bob:
There was a large number of night bombing runs in '41 done by the Germans and by the begining of '42 AI radars were being mass produced.
Furthermore the RAF moved to night bombing in this time period.