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View Full Version : Full motion cockpit, cost 500€!



Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 01:55 AM
i don't know if this has been posted before but here is a full motion cockpit. The cost is about 500€.
Full Motion Cockpit- CFS2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYOmygb5XtQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fv336hellenicsquadron%2Ecom%2FFor um%2Fviewtopic%2Ephp%3Fp%3D586)

Full motion cockpit + TrackIR4 Pro on a F16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBD9Juqx7PI&mode=related&search=)

The person who built this describes the whole proccess here, but it is in Greek : Construction (http://www.ptyxiouxos.net/greekbotics/e107/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1070.0)

The motion is "washed out" meaning, the general idea is to immitate the real forces that a pilot would feel, not the true position of his body.

For example, once you bank, you are returned to the upright position, so that you do not lean to the side during the turn, which is not what a real pilot would feel/do.

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 01:55 AM
i don't know if this has been posted before but here is a full motion cockpit. The cost is about 500€.
Full Motion Cockpit- CFS2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYOmygb5XtQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fv336hellenicsquadron%2Ecom%2FFor um%2Fviewtopic%2Ephp%3Fp%3D586)

Full motion cockpit + TrackIR4 Pro on a F16 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBD9Juqx7PI&mode=related&search=)

The person who built this describes the whole proccess here, but it is in Greek : Construction (http://www.ptyxiouxos.net/greekbotics/e107/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1070.0)

The motion is "washed out" meaning, the general idea is to immitate the real forces that a pilot would feel, not the true position of his body.

For example, once you bank, you are returned to the upright position, so that you do not lean to the side during the turn, which is not what a real pilot would feel/do.

Freelancer-1
06-24-2007, 02:12 AM
Answer me something.

Why is it that so many people go through all the time and expense to build one of these things and then stick a dinky little 17" monitor on it?

I see it in almost every simpit picture I come across.

Weird http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 02:16 AM
Because he is a not so rich student? The cockpit is made by himself using parts from everything he could find.

For example, the motors are powered by a 300W PC power supply!

JG52Uther
06-24-2007, 02:46 AM
I think that is fantastic!

Henkie327
06-24-2007, 02:57 AM
Nice! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pity he doesn't do loops or full aileron rolls http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

polak5
06-24-2007, 03:05 AM
wonder if it could be used for a racing sim... just have it move side to side also.

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Henkie327:
Nice! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pity he doesn't do loops or full aileron rolls http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a way , it does.
You see, the idea is not to simulate the true motion, but the feeling a real pilot would have...well, within obvious limits.

For example, you bank the plane and the cockpit banks too. Then, the cockpit levels slowly, because the real pilot inside the turn, would not feel "banked". But, if you are sideslipping and the ball is not centered, then the cockpit will not level completely, to give the feeling of sidesliping. So, you can "feel" if you are doing a coordinated turn or not just by what your body feels.

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by polak5:
wonder if it could be used for a racing sim... just have it move side to side also. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean this one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZqYKA8RTwY&mode=related&search=) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

zardozid
06-24-2007, 03:28 AM
That is cool...one might say inspired. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

ploughman
06-24-2007, 04:21 AM
That is neat. That and a visor mounted display and Track IR and you'd never come down for dinner.

szala11
06-24-2007, 06:19 AM
Guys! I LMAO!!! Why the hell do you need this Full Motion Cockpit??? Track IR is more then enough... Full Motion Cockpit for 1000Euro?? Never! Haha!
I think the guy who made it should buy himself a real plane to enjoy full realism http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
Or maybe he should just try to pass his exams LOL

szala11
06-24-2007, 06:23 AM
I think next time he should mount Browning M2s on the side of his "cockpit" or even place a big propeller in front of his "cockpit" to model airflow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ( I just hope he wont get into a stall and fall on the ground ) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
*And what if his plane flies upside down??* LMAO

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 08:30 AM
Guys, please hide the link of this forum from your wives/mothers/girlfriends... we just got busted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Feathered_IV
06-24-2007, 09:06 AM
The closest thing to being Wonder Woman without having surgery.

LEBillfish
06-24-2007, 09:30 AM
Actually, though it is VERY creative and clearly well built........It actually makes virtual flight "less" realistic.

Most times you're going to feel the pressure in your rump. Climbing, diving, banking hard and so on. Harder you pull back more in your back, and more you nose over less and so on.

When banking a plane you'd NOT have the urge to **** your head to compensate for gravity, yet your head would whip about from the sudden stops and starts in movement yet opposite. This is why you see military/NASA simulators on massive elevators or what would be better still gravity cyclic machines.

So "no motion" in this case closer to real IMLTHO....EIther that or quick side to side and up and down motions only....Though is no doubt fun to play in.

major_setback
06-24-2007, 09:44 AM
You cant use the word **** in here!

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 10:30 AM
It sure has its limitations and is far from perfect/realistic...no doubt about that.

BaldieJr
06-24-2007, 10:40 AM
Pretty cool stuff. I don't think I'd want to motorize a balanced gimbals though. My understanding of why the joyrider is realistic is because it does not maintain constant angles, but instead gives g-force queues. As Billfish mentioned, when you bank in a real plane your head doesn't try to fall onto the low shoulder because of angular forces.

I'm still very impressed by his work.

raaaid
06-24-2007, 10:58 AM
for 500 euro id get 5 screens sorrounding me and keep fov of each screen equal to fov with which you look at each screen via 6dof

just like being on a real cockpit or at least youd see the same

till antig is made public thse are child toys

Stew278
06-24-2007, 11:20 AM
Wow, that's a clever design. Even if it doesn't precisely model the forces a pilot would feel like people are saying, it still looks really cool. And using ordinary items like caster swivels, wiper motors, and computer PSUs too.

The only thing its missing is a cupholder that remains stationary so you don't spill your beverage.

BfHeFwMe
06-24-2007, 12:20 PM
It doesn't give the full sense of motion to your butt, but does to your inner ear which is the brains primary balancing mechanism. Once you set motion to that with inertia, it can fool the brain. If you remove the surrounding visual cues and relay solely on your inner ear, the sensation of flight can get intense enough to make you puke.

It's the basis for the old Link trainers, they can mess pilots up pretty good with spatial disorientation. They are still required training for some crew positions to check them out medically for SD problems.

WeaselGX
06-24-2007, 12:56 PM
How does the system get its inputs? Is it directly from the joystick?

This is very cool indeed ... even if it's not a perfectly realistic.

Ares_336sqn
06-24-2007, 01:33 PM
look here http://www.acesim.com/main.html and here http://www.flightcontrolsimulator.com/

you can buy one which is prebuilt but it will cost you much more than 500€. It is called joyrider.

This design as i understand is moving "manualy",directly by the stick. Which is a bit pathetic.

The one i posted about is controlled by software and motors.I do not know where you can find the software. And the original design does not have any motors for movement.Your muscles move it.
And you will have to improvise about how the motors will be used, because they are noot included in the original joyride blueprints.
This is a serious modification of the original joyride

Taylortony
06-24-2007, 01:55 PM
Hmmm he has not really thought it out has he, he needs some sort of gimbled platform mounting on it to put his beer................... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

polak5
06-24-2007, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ares_336sqn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by polak5:
wonder if it could be used for a racing sim... just have it move side to side also. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean this one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZqYKA8RTwY&mode=related&search=) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wholy craperuni! that is intense!

GAU-8
06-24-2007, 10:42 PM
id like one forcedynamics with this the visonstation by elumens please.

http://www.est-kl.com/aufbau_general/index_proj.html?ht...tion/elumens/vs.html (http://www.est-kl.com/aufbau_general/index_proj.html?http://www.est-kl.com/projection/elumens/vs.html)

BaldieJr
06-25-2007, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ares_336sqn:


This design as i understand is moving "manualy",directly by the stick. Which is a bit pathetic.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not pathetic at all. In fact its quite a smart approach. The motorized version will feel far less realistic because of gravitational pull while pitched or banked.

Lurch1962
06-25-2007, 06:03 PM
I'm with Baldie. The "manually" torqued version is probably better for two reasons:
1) You have a kind of FFB system, in that you're fighting the inertia of your body weight (although the 200 lb. originator of the Joyrider claims a full figure-8 stick swirl in 2 seconds), and
2) The induced movements are directly and instantaneously linked with the force you impart to the stick.

Some further refinements to consider:

Don't put the monitor way down near the feet! Move it up closer to the eyes so as to get a wider apparent field of view (more immersive).

Perhaps make a lightweight "hood" to block out most or all of the extraneous externals in the room.

Reduce the roll motion to a smaller angle. In the video you could see how the somewhat excessive left/right tilt caused the player to unconsciously compensate for neck strain by tilting his head toward vertical. 10-15 degrees from vertical should(?) suffice.

--Lurch--

Ares_336sqn
06-25-2007, 07:27 PM
The manually "torqued" version has not and can never have the "washing out" effect. Which is what makes it very unrealistic.
Here is the page where the programmer Roland van Roy explains the concept of "wash out" (http://www.simprojects.nl/Roll%20and%20Washout.htm)

This is still work in progress.

The idea is to use gravity to give you the feeling of how you should feel in a real plane-within certain limits!.
The jerky movement is beacuse this is WIP...

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-25-2007, 07:38 PM
Not sure if I would like it. Well maybe for FS, but it seems abit loud. Either way that dood got some serious mechanical skillz...be sure.

S! Thanks for sharing

DudeAbides82
06-27-2007, 09:06 PM
I would never even begin to think that I could build something like that. But it just doesn't seem to work right. It's like there's no rhyme or reason to how it moves...

Ares_336sqn
06-28-2007, 02:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DudeAbides82:
I would never even begin to think that I could build something like that. But it just doesn't seem to work right. It's like there's no rhyme or reason to how it moves... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The person who made this made a post here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/4321085965

The more i read about it , the more i like it.

If they managed to make the visual cues match those from the inner ear (which counts accelerations) as i read it, then that is phenomenal job. More difficult than you can possibly imagine...

Krt_Bong
06-28-2007, 08:27 AM
Okay, that's cool but where do ya put your coffee?

SeaFireLIV
06-28-2007, 09:25 AM
You guys would criticise the scales off a fish! Let`s just face it - It`s a damn nice job!

DudeAbides82
06-28-2007, 06:17 PM
You're right, I hate fish with scales...