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Cooter_777
02-13-2005, 11:11 PM
Dog fighting @ extreme altitudes, say above 15 thousand feet, has me confused. The aircraft sound like there really moving fast, yet the speedometer doesn€t agree. I€ve read & heard around that there are in fact 2 ways of measuring speed in aircraft. "Indicated" & "Actual". Mixing this info with my experience in high altitude fights, I€ve concluded that I€m going much faster than what my speedometer is saying. It€s an "indicated" speed & not essentially accurate due to the fact that at extreme altitudes the law of physics has changed the aircrafts ability to measure speed.

Any thoughts to enlighten me would be appreciated...

Cooter_777
02-13-2005, 11:11 PM
Dog fighting @ extreme altitudes, say above 15 thousand feet, has me confused. The aircraft sound like there really moving fast, yet the speedometer doesn€t agree. I€ve read & heard around that there are in fact 2 ways of measuring speed in aircraft. "Indicated" & "Actual". Mixing this info with my experience in high altitude fights, I€ve concluded that I€m going much faster than what my speedometer is saying. It€s an "indicated" speed & not essentially accurate due to the fact that at extreme altitudes the law of physics has changed the aircrafts ability to measure speed.

Any thoughts to enlighten me would be appreciated...

actionhank1786
02-13-2005, 11:15 PM
this is just a guess, since i don't really know, but i'm assuming that since the air at altitude is so thin, it's not registering as fast as the thicker air down low would, when it blows into whatever device measures it.
That's just a guess, since air is so much less dense at Altitude

Hairball_1
02-14-2005, 12:48 AM
The Pitot tube on an aircraft allows air to rush in so that airspeed can be measured. As the altitude increases, the density decreases significantly, which is why the IAS (Indicated Air Speed) is well below the TAS (True Air Speed).

The higher the altitude, the larger the discrepancy.

Snow_Wolf_
02-14-2005, 02:20 AM
High you go the less pressure there is it between the work of Static and pito pressure (forgive my spelling of pito if i get it wrong) This is the basic to most aircraft gauges.

If you want to know how fast you going up at 15000ft then i sugguest that you go to your forgotten battles disc number 2 and there is a IAS/TAS chart which should be a PDF file. The chart will roughly tell you what your True airspeed is in the game..

AFJ_Skyghost
02-14-2005, 05:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ******_777:
Dog fighting @ extreme altitudes, say above 15 thousand feet... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

15000 feet (I think that s around 4600 metters)high is far from being extreme altitude to dogfight mate, I ve been fighting at altitudes like 30000 or 36000 feet high and there that diference is even higher

Nug01
02-14-2005, 06:01 AM
Roughly True air speed (TAS)=Indicated air speed (IAS) +3% of IAS every 2,000 feet of altitude. There are charts that have TAS figured for you, if you don't want to do the mental gymnastics with a bad guy chasing ya.

ClnlSandersLite
02-14-2005, 06:11 AM
Watch it though, you're maneuvers work off of IAS, not TAS. This means that High altitude combats are faster but the turns are more exagerated the higher you go.

Diablo310th
02-14-2005, 06:30 AM
If your'e flying offline you can use AVC's fine program called UDPGraph. It can be set to show TAS so that you know how fast you really are flying. As was said......High alt. fighting is really from 23,000 to 30,000+. Things are really different up in God's space. I love it.....not many know how to fight up that high so when you get an engagement it's a blast.

FatBoyHK
02-14-2005, 07:39 AM
lol, some players really think 15000ft is "extreme altitude"...... no wonder the majority of fights are treetop TnB.....

but there is nothing wrong with it, it is just a game. We don't want every server to be a clone of WarClouds.

geetarman
02-14-2005, 09:11 AM
"clone of Warclouds?" Sorry, Fatbot. Most of the time on WC everyone STILL foghts at 5,000' or less. Unfortunately http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

taiterbud
02-14-2005, 11:58 AM
Why climb to 30,000 Ft? People fight at low altitude for time sakes, nothing more.

VW-IceFire
02-14-2005, 12:10 PM
Some guys make it sound like fighting at tree top level is something that you should be ashamed of. Thats pretty far from the truth (although I know the kind of style that they are referencing).

I prefer to operate as a tatical fighter and fly in the altitude range of 0-4000 meters (or about 15,000 feet). Thats idealy suited to me and my favorite rides so it works out quite well.

Operationally during WWII, you have your heavy bombers flying up there. So you need aircraft like the 109, Spitfire, Mustang and Thunderbolt to intercept or escort aircraft at those altitudes. Those bunch of aircraft really shine over the opposition at those altitudes.

geetarman
02-14-2005, 12:25 PM
True Ice Fire - but, if you fly a Mustang fitted out in the air-to-air mode, constantly having to drop to 7,000' and below to find the preponderance of your opponents, gets a bit trying.

Maybe I miss them, but a large percentage of blue flyers keep it low. If your red and want a kill, you have to go down there where you are at a disadvantage perfromance-wise.

I understand though most are happy with that or don't care one way or the other. I think I'm going to start an online coop with a B-24 escort at 25,000. Airstart. That will be fun!

S!

ucanfly
02-14-2005, 12:46 PM
I'm afraid that the poor dot visibility (unrealistically so) in this game is to blame for the vast preponderance of people not wanting to fight at altitude. I've tried it many times and it is just darned hard to spot anything against certain terrain even from just a few hundred meters (depending on your system). This changed very dramatically in the 3.01 , but was very quickly changed back when all of the dot elitists whined that dot visibility was too good (?!). Too bad as 3.02 and on has better FMs but worse dots.

If OLeg makes the dots more visible again high altitude will be much more inviting, and realistic combat tactics will be more feasible. Crossing my fingers.

smatchimo
02-14-2005, 01:01 PM
I agree with ucanfly, I always climb for a while after takeoff, but eventually have to drop thousands of feet in order to see anything. Target aqusition is my biggest complaint about this sim. For example, when I played warbirds 2.xx back in the day icon ranges were very long, but you could aquire a target from very high altitude. This allowed for massive high altitude combat. The heavies didnt stand a chance unless they climbed to a realistic altitude. So until we can solve the long distance aquisition prob, longer icon range is the only way to fix this (in my humble opinion).

-Cheers!

geetarman
02-14-2005, 02:38 PM
I find the dot rnages only a problem when looking down from 20,000' and higher. It doesn't seem to be too bad if your bogey is up there with you. I can, more or less, see the dots up there.

It's not a complaint really, but it's frustrating that most guys keep it low. AFAIK, most US vs. German combat during 1943-1945 started pretty high up and may have ended way down low.

I got kind of blasted awhile ago when I suggested that I'd be more than happy seeing some servers use airstarts. I'd gladly give up take-offs if I could meet a lot of good pilots ready to duel at 20,000'+ in their 109's and 190's!

Smidlee
02-14-2005, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ucanfly:
I'm afraid that the poor dot visibility (unrealistically so) in this game is to blame for the vast preponderance of people not wanting to fight at altitude. I've tried it many times and it is just darned hard to spot anything against certain terrain even from just a few hundred meters (depending on your system) . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Inrealistic or not I agree it's very hard to see the dots from above especially in PF with alot of water. I stay low since the dots are a lot easyer to spot skyward. I have flied low close to the water and had planes fly over me then i climb on their 6.

fordfan25
02-14-2005, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ******_777:
Dog fighting @ extreme altitudes, say above 15 thousand feet, has me confused. The aircraft sound like there really moving fast, yet the speedometer doesn€t agree. I€ve read & heard around that there are in fact 2 ways of measuring speed in aircraft. "Indicated" & "Actual". Mixing this info with my experience in high altitude fights, I€ve concluded that I€m going much faster than what my speedometer is saying. It€s an "indicated" speed & not essentially accurate due to the fact that at extreme altitudes the law of physics has changed the aircrafts ability to measure speed.

Any thoughts to enlighten me would be appreciated... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i had the same prob. two things i was doing wrong was #1 seems on some planes if you select complex engien mng. to auto it tottaly reduces the aircarfts high alt speed. also when you start a mission hit F1 only once that will take you out of the cockpit. your true seed will be on the left in the yellow speedomitor thing.

try it in the corsair. set alt in QMB to say 7500 and choose auto eng mng in the diffculty menu. youll notice what your top speed is. now set auto eng mng to manule and refly. set the supercharger to stage 3. youll note a large top speed increse youll even hear the engien sounds stronger as well.

taiterbud
02-14-2005, 02:52 PM
That would be an awsome coop server Geetarman!

geetarman
02-14-2005, 03:43 PM
I first have to learn how! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Doing my research now

chris455
02-14-2005, 03:47 PM
15,000ft? Never flew my Jug that low. Has anyone? How does she perform? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Diablo310th
02-14-2005, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
15,000ft? Never flew my Jug that low. Has anyone? How does she perform? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL I agree Chris...she flies like ****. She definately does not like it low. High and fast is the only way to go. High being over 20,000 ft.

Cooter_777
02-14-2005, 08:46 PM
Thanks all, very helpful, explains a lot. Esp. the info on disc 2 of forgotten battles.

Just another note, as u now all know. Flying at extreme altitudes are a new frontier for me. (I have been going much higher than 15K. It€s just that till now I rarely ventured above that level) Anyway I must say it is quite a hoot! Oleg has done a good job in modeling aircraft that are made to show there €œtrue colors€ in this arena. I€ve been practicing in the Ta-152 with QMB @ approximately 30 thousand feet. I must say that the ai didn€t put forth much of a challenge, even though I used some stellar high altitude stars, such as the P-51 & the P-47. I guess I€ll have to get in hyperlobby and take my licks€¦

VF-3Thunderboy
02-14-2005, 09:05 PM
Its nice to see Altitude isnt a bad word in this sim.Believe me. But you also need to go squad against squad, wingman teams. This is where it gets truly amazing.

The online servers should be set up to give both squad commanders altitude options and starting squad options , so that you can start in a left hand formation, etc.

Not sure if ill be going online anytime soon in this sim though... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif