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BMW-Z4-2004
10-31-2006, 05:51 PM
How long did the Ju-88 take? And what exactly was needed. I ask because there is this guy who does it for RB3D and spouts off about how easy it is.

So I challneged him to make a flyable HE-177 to the Oleg standard. He gets $500 if it is up to Oleg standards and we can fly it in the sim by midnight 11/6/06.

He claims it doesn't take months.

BMW-Z4-2004
10-31-2006, 05:51 PM
How long did the Ju-88 take? And what exactly was needed. I ask because there is this guy who does it for RB3D and spouts off about how easy it is.

So I challneged him to make a flyable HE-177 to the Oleg standard. He gets $500 if it is up to Oleg standards and we can fly it in the sim by midnight 11/6/06.

He claims it doesn't take months.

carguy_
10-31-2006, 05:57 PM
Heheheh Ju88?About 4years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pe2/3 - 5years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

B17/Lancaster - never http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sigjzg23upgraded.jpg
Self-proclaimed dedicated Willywhiner since July 2002
: Badsight.:"increased manouverability for bf-109s was satire" :
Please bring back 3.01 dots!

Low_Flyer_MkVb
10-31-2006, 06:06 PM
Something scribbled on the back of a ciggie packet by a drunk waiter at the 1944 Lufty Christmas party? Two weeks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/Screensignew.jpg

BMW-Z4-2004
10-31-2006, 06:17 PM
Hehehe

But I need something better. This guy is already making excuses. "I need a mesh. I don't have the game. I won't send it to them because they won't pay me, blah blah.)

Low_Flyer_MkVb
10-31-2006, 06:19 PM
What do you get if he doesn't deliver?

Your friend's going to need complete cockpit references for starters.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/Screensignew.jpg

BMW-Z4-2004
11-01-2006, 04:54 AM
There isn't anything I want. If he does what he claims, we get a new a/c. If he can't, and with the excuses he's been coming up with, it isn't going to happen, then I get the satisfaction of being right.

I even dared him to come here and make the claims he's making.

One of them is that he offered to do Japanese a/c for this sim, but was turned down.(I suspect, if so, it was his attitude toward how these are done.)

Blutarski2004
11-01-2006, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
How long did the Ju-88 take? And what exactly was needed. I ask because there is this guy who does it for RB3D and spouts off about how easy it is.

So I challneged him to make a flyable HE-177 to the Oleg standard. He gets $500 if it is up to Oleg standards and we can fly it in the sim by midnight 11/6/06.

He claims it doesn't take months. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... This sounds a lot like a fellow from the old RB3B Delphi days - Baron von Helton.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

BLUTARSKI

BMW-Z4-2004
11-01-2006, 06:44 AM
I didn't want to say, but you're right.

He said the same thing to the guys who were doing the Knights over Europe a/c. They just shook their heads.

Making models for this sim is an order of magnitude more difficult than doing it for RB3D. I know it, and I don't even model. I look at things like the J8A, the 110, the Spit, and it just astounds me. The J8A alone was measured in the 100s of hours.

But BvH claims it doesn't take that long.

Viikate_
11-02-2006, 02:09 AM
Anyone of these guys who struggled months or years with IL2 planes could build those primitive and cr@ppy looking RB3D planes in few days.

I once tried to explain how huge job it is to make one plane for this game.
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....;t=000595;p=1#000024 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=000595;p=1#00 0024)

Pics are missing but the point is that one external model requires:
- 6 undamaged mesh LODs (most detailed is about 3000-4000 polys)
- 4 minor damage mesh LODs
- 4 major damage mesh LODs (LOD0&1 with most of the visible internals modelled)
- collision mesh
- 4 shadow mesh LODs
- 4 cap mesh LODs
- bunch of hook and clip objects to indicate muzzle flash, smoke, fire, etc. places
- plus something else that i forgot

So this equals over 500 different parts, some with corretly set pivot points. All have to be named correctly and texture mappings is needed also. Then we need three different textures for the LODs and also two textures for minor and major damages. This was just for the external model. Cockpit model has "only" about 5000-9000 polys and 8Mb of textures (for single seat fighter). And then you have to spend months trying to find good drawings and photograps for references.

Total polycount for some big bomber+pit+gunners could be well over 60000. How many polys does RB3D planes take? 60000 polys is lot of work for "low-poly" model because it takes time to plan efficient usage of polys.

First hi-poly version of the Fokker pit had over 1000000 polys. Then all hi-poly parts were rendered to simple planes. Modeling of the pit took about 400 hours and this doesn't include hours that Hurri-Khan spent for texturing and rendering.

If Baron von Helton models HE-177 in few days (in IL2 standards), I'll consider it as the 8th Wonder of the World.

BMW-Z4-2004
11-02-2006, 04:29 AM
That's what I've been looking for!!

He is demanding I provide him with a 3D mesh.
Says he can't do it unless I send him one. I think he's full of it.

Viikate_
11-02-2006, 04:57 AM
I don't understand. What mesh? He is supposed to do all the needed meshes by himself from drawings. First step would be to make the most accurate LOD 0 that could have about 4000-5000 polys.


Here is all needed tutorials:

http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/380.html

http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/129.html

http://www.netwings.org/dcforum/DCForumID43/373.html

(Poly limits are raised little from 2003 limits)

Good luck with modeling... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Blutarski2004
11-02-2006, 05:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
I didn't want to say, but you're right.

He said the same thing to the guys who were doing the Knights over Europe a/c. They just shook their heads.

Making models for this sim is an order of magnitude more difficult than doing it for RB3D. I know it, and I don't even model. I look at things like the J8A, the 110, the Spit, and it just astounds me. The J8A alone was measured in the 100s of hours.

But BvH claims it doesn't take that long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



..... I suspected it was him. Tell BvH that "Lord Byron" says hello.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

BLUTARSKI

BMW-Z4-2004
11-02-2006, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viikate_:
I don't understand. What mesh? He is supposed to do all the needed meshes by himself from drawings. First step would be to make the most accurate LOD 0 that could have about 4000-5000 polys.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't inderstand either. He claims that he needs a 3D mesh to look at in order to do it. I figured he would have to do it himself.

He is also now claiming that "blueprint quality" means you have to have the actual blueprints.

http://www.wings-of-valor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=001701

VonHelton
11-02-2006, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
I didn't want to say, but you're right.

He said the same thing to the guys who were doing the Knights over Europe a/c. They just shook their heads.

Making models for this sim is an order of magnitude more difficult than doing it for RB3D. I know it, and I don't even model. I look at things like the J8A, the 110, the Spit, and it just astounds me. The J8A alone was measured in the 100s of hours.

But BvH claims it doesn't take that long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



..... I suspected it was him. Tell BvH that "Lord Byron" says hello. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Lord Byron........!!

Please forgive Z4. He's currently off his meds, and the little men in white coats are in hot persuit!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have *never* said I could build an IL2 aircraft in a few days. Mr. Z4 is a LIAR.

Carry on with your conversation.......

Gibbage1
11-02-2006, 12:21 PM
Good luck too him.

I should know. I have about 10 aircraft models already in IL2. Spit Vb, P-38 and Go-229 just to name a few, so I should know.

To make the base 4500 polygon model takes me about a week or less, and thats doing it in my free time. About 8-10 man hours. Thats just the start! And it only counts the external model. Then I need to UVW map it, thats another week, texture it, another week, and then do all the LOD's, DM and caps. Thats all 4 weeks of hard work minimum, and fot a single engine fighter. Thats NOT counting the cockpit. Thats another month.

When I was out of work, I was modeling full time for Aces. I was modeling 1 aircraft plus cockpit a month for Oleg, but thats working 8+ hours a day sometimes. Its a lot of work.

A bomber takes more time by a factor of how many engines it has for the external, and how many crew it has for the internal. So a 4 engine B-17 would take 4x as long as a P-51 for the external alone, and 10X as long for the cockpits! Its an insane undertaking for any single man, and thats why I could not finish the PBY Catalina alone myself.

Now, just an FYI. Oleg stopped accepting models a LONG LONG time ago. He has a backlog of already finished aircraft and he is trying to wrap up the sim. I say save it till BoB since no matter how good it is, I doubt it will be included at this point in time. Contact Oleg yourself to make sure.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

BMW-Z4-2004
11-02-2006, 08:51 PM
I didn't know Oleg stopped accepting for Il2. Well, then he could do it for the upcoming one. Gives him more time.

VonHelton
11-02-2006, 09:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Good luck too him.

I should know. I have about 10 aircraft models already in IL2. Spit Vb, P-38 and Go-229 just to name a few, so I should know.

To make the base 4500 polygon model takes me about a week or less, and thats doing it in my free time. About 8-10 man hours. Thats just the start! And it only counts the external model. Then I need to UVW map it, thats another week, texture it, another week, and then do all the LOD's, DM and caps. Thats all 4 weeks of hard work minimum, and fot a single engine fighter. Thats NOT counting the cockpit. Thats another month.

When I was out of work, I was modeling full time for Aces. I was modeling 1 aircraft plus cockpit a month for Oleg, but thats working 8+ hours a day sometimes. Its a lot of work.

A bomber takes more time by a factor of how many engines it has for the external, and how many crew it has for the internal. So a 4 engine B-17 would take 4x as long as a P-51 for the external alone, and 10X as long for the cockpits! Its an insane undertaking for any single man, and thats why I could not finish the PBY Catalina alone myself.

Now, just an FYI. Oleg stopped accepting models a LONG LONG time ago. He has a backlog of already finished aircraft and he is trying to wrap up the sim. I say save it till BoB since no matter how good it is, I doubt it will be included at this point in time. Contact Oleg yourself to make sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Heinkel 177 can't be used in BOB, so that ends that. Further, all of the planes that fought in BOB are already made, from what I've read on this board.

Spitfire 1a
Hurricane
BF-109E
Heinkel HE-111
Junkers JU-88
Dornier Do-17z

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BMW-Z4-2004
11-03-2006, 02:43 AM
Doesnt' change the fact that A: You can't do it. B: You've claimed that how long it takes to do a/c of this quality is nonsense.

So do it for the inevitable expansion pack. Course you also have claimed that

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VonHelton:

.......You can forget add-ons. The work involved will almost be the equivalent of writing a new game!

QUOTE]

VonHelton
11-03-2006, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
Doesnt' change the fact that A: You can't do it. B: You've claimed that how long it takes to do a/c of this quality is nonsense.

So do it for the inevitable expansion pack. Course you also have claimed that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:

.......You can forget add-ons. The work involved will almost be the equivalent of writing a new game!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB *is* a new game.
PF *is* a new game.
KOTS *is* a new game.

What Expansion Pack?!

Get back on yer meds!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gibbage1
11-03-2006, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:

The Heinkel 177 can't be used in BOB, so that ends that. Further, all of the planes that fought in BOB are already made, from what I've read on this board.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg's goal (and one I back him 100%) is that BoB is the START of a long long series of sims. Its the beginning. The Genisis. There will be many many after that. Two that I know of is the battle of France, Poland, and the Med by 3rd party dev's. Oleg has stated he plans to support 3rd party dev's better and POSSIBLY release the tools to add your own aircraft, but keep a strict limit on whats officially added into the game.

This means a 3rd party possibly could do a He-177 for a later pack. I just hope Oleg programs in engine reliability as part of the DM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Those things had horrid engine problems.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

VonHelton
11-03-2006, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:

Oleg's goal (and one I back him 100%) is that BoB is the START of a long long series of sims. Its the beginning. The Genisis. There will be many many after that. Two that I know of is the battle of France, Poland, and the Med by 3rd party dev's. Oleg has stated he plans to support 3rd party dev's better and POSSIBLY release the tools to add your own aircraft, but keep a strict limit on whats officially added into the game.

This means a 3rd party possibly could do a He-177 for a later pack. I just hope Oleg programs in engine reliability as part of the DM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Those things had horrid engine problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, according to what I've just read, the Griffen should *already* be in IL2!!

This plane served on the Eastern Front!

......Oleg must've left it out for a reason, so building it is probably a waste of time.

Does he post here?

Gibbage1
11-03-2006, 04:04 PM
There was a promising He-177 model being made, but I dont think it was finished, and it did not have a cockpit.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

BMW-Z4-2004
11-03-2006, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
Doesnt' change the fact that A: You can't do it. B: You've claimed that how long it takes to do a/c of this quality is nonsense.

So do it for the inevitable expansion pack. Course you also have claimed that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:

.......You can forget add-ons. The work involved will almost be the equivalent of writing a new game!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB *is* a new game.
PF *is* a new game.
KOTS *is* a new game.

What Expansion Pack?!

Get back on yer meds!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB is now an old game. It got an expansion pack, called AEP. Something you always claimed wasn't possible. PF is also an old game, which can be either a stand alone or merged with IL2FB/AEP. There is also the expansion Pe-2, something else that shows the nonsense of your claims all through SimHq. Then we have the upcoming Manchuria expansion.

What expansion? The one that comes after BoB. So you really think that BoB will be it? The fact that the battles of France and Poland will be done says otherwise. Also puts another hole in your claims.

VonHelton
11-04-2006, 04:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BMW-Z4-2004:
Doesnt' change the fact that A: You can't do it. B: You've claimed that how long it takes to do a/c of this quality is nonsense.

So do it for the inevitable expansion pack. Course you also have claimed that

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:

.......You can forget add-ons. The work involved will almost be the equivalent of writing a new game!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB *is* a new game.
PF *is* a new game.
KOTS *is* a new game.

What Expansion Pack?!

Get back on yer meds!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB is now an old game. It got an expansion pack, called AEP. Something you always claimed wasn't possible. PF is also an old game, which can be either a stand alone or merged with IL2FB/AEP. There is also the expansion Pe-2, something else that shows the nonsense of your claims all through SimHq. Then we have the upcoming Manchuria expansion.

What expansion? The one that comes after BoB. So you really think that BoB will be it? The fact that the battles of France and Poland will be done says otherwise. Also puts another hole in your claims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, your twisting my words. What I said was that gaming companies are usually only good for an update or 2, because they have other games to make.

This is a true statement, and history proves it. As for the expansions you mention, they are aircraft upgrades, done by 3rd parties. Nothing wrong with that, but it wasn't what I was referring to.

Picking out bits & pieces of what I say doesn't work. You have to have the context, or it makes no sense.

Get back on yer meds!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VonHelton
11-04-2006, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
There was a promising He-177 model being made, but I dont think it was finished, and it did not have a cockpit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmmmm.......Finishing what he started *would* be an excellent way to break into IL2 moddeling!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Think this individual would part with what they already have done, and let me finish it?

......This would be an excellent experience builder!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WarWolfe_1
11-04-2006, 05:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonHelton:

The Heinkel 177 can't be used in BOB, so that ends that. Further, all of the planes that fought in BOB are already made, from what I've read on this board.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg's goal (and one I back him 100%) is that BoB is the START of a long long series of sims. Its the beginning. The Genisis. There will be many many after that. Two that I know of is the battle of France, Poland, and the Med by 3rd party dev's. Oleg has stated he plans to support 3rd party dev's better and POSSIBLY release the tools to add your own aircraft, but keep a strict limit on whats officially added into the game.

This means a 3rd party possibly could do a He-177 for a later pack. I just hope Oleg programs in engine reliability as part of the DM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Those things had horrid engine problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great info....Thanx<div class="ev_tpc_signature">





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