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View Full Version : The relationship between Focke and Fokker??



Xiolablu3
11-02-2005, 11:32 PM
Are these 2 the same company or completely different?

Anyone knwo the history of these names and why/if it was changed?

Xiolablu3
11-02-2005, 11:32 PM
Are these 2 the same company or completely different?

Anyone knwo the history of these names and why/if it was changed?

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2005, 11:51 PM
I thought the Fokkers of WWI were named after a Dutch aircraft designer Anthony Fokker, who developed the Fokker Eindekker, the worlds first fighter with a fixed forward firing syncronised machine gun, put to deadly use by Max Immelmann

Pass on Focke Wulf

wayno7777
11-03-2005, 12:20 AM
The company was founded in Bremen on 23rd October 1923 as Bremer Flugzeugbau AG by Prof. Heinrich Focke, Georg Wulf and Dr. Werner Neumann. Almost immediately, they renamed it Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau AG. In 1931, under government pressure, Focke-Wulf merged with Albatros-Flugzeugwerke of Berlin. The resourceful engineer and test pilot Kurt Tank from Albatros became head of the technical department.


Anthony Fokker was already a successful aircraft designer-producer. The war heightened his prominence. Although the records were destroyed in World War II, it is known that he produced more than sixty distinct aircraft designs during this period. The great German aces of the war - Voss, Immelmann, Boelke, and Richtoffen - achieved their outstanding records with the help of the "Fokker." Accomplishments including the E series, the D-VII, which was probably the best fighter of the war and the DR-1 tri-plane made famous by the Red Baron. He developed the machine gun synchronizer in just 48 hours after being given the assignment. In the postwar years Anthony Fokker emigrated to the U.S. and continued his work in the design and production of transport aircraft. It was his famous tri-motor aircraft on which airlines of the World were based in the late 1920's. It was these rugged, high performance ships of the air that the great air explorers made famous: the U.S. Air Corp's Fokker T-2 which made the first nonstop transcontinental flight from New York to San Diego, Byrd's Fokkers which flew over the Poles, the great endurance flight of the Question Mark, and Kingsford Smith's Southern Cross.

He passed on December 23, 1939. So, I would conclude that there was no relationship between the two companys....

Daiichidoku
11-03-2005, 12:44 AM
fokker did NOT invert the gun sync.

he reverse engineered, or made it from blueprints, cant remember which one, in 48 hrs

wayno7777
11-03-2005, 12:55 AM
It says developed, not invented....

HotelBushranger
11-03-2005, 01:36 AM
A French test pilot, whos name I forgot, was flying a plane with metal deflectors on the propeller, wish crash-landed. Antony Fokker improved on this system, and came up with the forward firing syncronised gun system.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2005, 06:14 AM
Roland Garros, the French named a town after him & I think they play world class tennis there

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dasriech:
Roland Garros, the French named a town after him & I think they play world class tennis there </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was quite a surprise to learn that Roland Garros was more than the second most prestigious grand slam.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In WWI France, Belgium, Italy, Russia and the US used the term ace. It was first used to describe the exploits of Roland Garros, who when he was captured had 5 "victories" (in reality Garros had only destroyed three opponents at that time; but had claimed 5), which became the standard by which "acedom" was achieved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-03-2005, 06:45 AM
some History of the Dutch aircraft company Fokker

Anthony Fokker build at the end of 1910 together with his school-fellow Franz von Damm his first aircraft the "Spin" (Spider). This was the start of a company that would be one of the largest airplane builders in the world for 85 years. Fokker became famous under the people in the Netherlands after his demonstration flights with his third Spin over Haarlem (Netherlands) at the occasion of Queensday 1911. He became an airplane builder and flight instructor at Johannestal Airport near Berlin (Germany) where he did build more Spiders. On February 22, 1912 his first company was registered in Berlin under the name "Fokker Aviatik GmbH". His friend Fritz Cremer became his chief intructor. A competition for the design of a transportable airplane for the German army resulted in an order for 10 airplanes. Fokker build his first real factory sized 15 to 36 meters in Schwerin Meckelenburg with support of the German government. Anthony's father, his uncle and the father of Fritz Cremer offered 400,000 German Marks to set up "Fokker Flugzeug Werke GmbH" with 55 employees.
The First World War

Fokker received an order for 114 airplanes from the German army after he demonstrated his new M.5. The German army was not so much interested in the beginning to use airplanes in the war. They became also much more interested after Fokker invented in 1915 the system to synchronize the machine-gun with the propellor. Fokker airplanes were champions in airfights for many years. Fokker build about 600 of the improved versions E.1 to E.4. In total they build 3000 airplanes in 4 years time. Fokker designed as the successor of the old monoplanes a few biplanes with type number D. A couple of these types were delivered to the Dutch army and paid with horses. Triplanes were designed by Reinhold Platz and they were famous around 1917 and flown by famous pilots like Manfred von Richthofen. He was called 'the red baron' because his total red airplane. The most important airplane which was used in the first World War was the D.7. With its Mercedes 160 hp engine, it was strong and had many good qualities. The D.8 was designed using a new wing and played an important role in the company's next project: an airplane for passengers transport.
Between the two wars

Fokker was very aware that the at the end of the war the market for airplanes would drop. He made first contacts with the Dutch army. The Allies wanted to dismantle the factory, they were interested in all the D.7 planes and wanted to destroy the rest. Fokker had already hidden as much as possible materials as possible at various places, about 400 engines and 220 airplanes. It was complicated to organise to get trains and facilities for this "evacuation", but the plan succeeded. In total 350 train vans arrived in Amsterdam. The newly designed F.2 was designed to carry 4 persons and was build in Veere (Netherlands). On the 21th July the "NV Nederlandse Vliegtuigenfabriek" was founded. Because of political reasons, the name Fokker was not included; In England and France it still had an unpopular sound. Meanwhile Albert Plesman founded the KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) was founded in 1919. KLM would always be an important customer for Fokker, despite that the characters of Plesman and Fokker did not always match. Fokker entered the American market with its fuselage made out of steel as a very strong feature. Fokker's activities were executed under the company name "Netherlands Aircraft Manufacturing Company" and later "Fokker Aircraft Corporation". In Europe, Fokker had manufacturing plants in the Netherlands, but also in Belgium, Tsjecho-Slowakia, Poland and Denmark. The new airplane was called the F.32 and was Fokker's largest passengers plane in the US. It was not a success because of the bad economic situation. In the end, the company was taken over by General Motors and Fokker left the company after a difference of opinion with his fellow directors. In spite of the economic situation, aviation was growing. Air connections quality was also improving. Constructor Reinhold Platz left the company and was succeeded by Marius Beeling. A very important decision at that time was to start using metal for airplane construction, like the US companies already did. Fokker achieved the licence rights for production of the Douglas airplanes. Fokker became the agent for Europe. Fokker delivered many DC-2's and DC-3's to KLM and many other European carriers.
Fokker died on 23 December 1939 after complications after a small operation on his nose
The second World War

Fokker's director van Tijen did prepare for the war by bringen 3 million guilders to the U.S. The Germans occopied the Fokker factory and tried to complete a number of G.1 and T.8w planes. The Dutch employees did not co-operate in a good way to do this by working very slowly and making many mistakes. The Germans used the Fokker factory to repair their broken planes. At the end of the war the Germans took many materials with them.
A new begin

After the war the Fokker factory was almost empty. Many efforts where done to arrange for new tools and machines from other countries. The factory produced a couple of busses to keep the Fokker employees at the factory. After the design and production of airplanes of type S.11 and S.12 there was a need of an succesor of the Dakota planes whitch where used in the war. With support from te Dutch government the F.27 Friendship was designed. The Friendship and the new F.28 Fellowship were both extremely succefull. The F.28 was the first Fokkerplane with jet engines. The F.27 was also build under licence by Fairchild in the U.S.
The coming end of the company

The successes of the F.27 Friendship and F.28 Fellowship were over and in 1964 Fokker's President Frans Swarttouw decided to stop production. As replacement the Fokker 50 was designed, using many new technologies. In total 200 Fokker 50's were build. But Fokker's ambition was the Fokker 100. To cover part of the huge investments the Dutch government offered 720 million guilders. Many problems occurred already at the early stage, like many customer specific requirements resulting in design and production delays. Fokker received many orders for the Fokker 100, but was not able to deliver on time because of financial reasons. The low dollar rate was one of the main problems. It was decided to design a shorter version: the Fokker 70, with plans for delivery in 1994-95. Also a new 130 passenger Fokker was planned for 1996-97, but these plans were blocked by DASA, the German company which had taken over Fokker. Financial problems remained, although the Dutch government and DASA pumped a lot of money in the company. After DASA stopped to invest in Fokker, the company went bankrupted in the end on March 15, 1996. It was a great shock to all employees and the Dutch industry.
Fokker a living history

The historical collection of old airplanes, foto's and movies and archives was bought by the Fokker Heritage Trust Foundation. The FTH was created by the Fokker Friendship Association (FFA) and the Dutch National Aviation Museum Aviodome with support of the Dutch government, industry and many individuals. Because of their work, Fokker will remain a living history.

Fokker aircraft still in use

Fokker 100
http://www.al-airliners.be/k-o/klm/klf-100.jpg

Fokker 70
http://www.planespotting.nl/fokker70/PH-KZL.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-03-2005, 07:05 AM
Hisory of Anthony Fokker

The selfmade aviation pioneer

One day in the room of the director of a college in Haarlem, Holland a student appeared from Class 4a. It was Anthony Fokker again who had already been the cause of a number of problems. He was now repeating the fourth grade and was the terror of his teachers.
"What is it this time?"
"I would like to take two weeks vacation, sir".
"Vacation?! You?!"
"Yes sir, I would like to work on my invention. I am in the fourth grade for a second time
and there is really nothing more for me to learn here".

The director heard the boy and nodded. If he indeed gave permission for this vacation is not entirely clear. Tony understood the nodding as "yes" and disappeared. The vacation continued and he never returned to college. Together with his friend Frits Cremer who left college at the same time, Tony Fokker worked for a whole month on his invention: a leak-free car tire. It turned out to be a disappointment however because when a patent was applied for, it emerged that the discovery of the youthful Dutch inventor had already been proposed by a Frenchman. Anthony Herman Gerard Fokker was born on 6 April 1890 at Blitar, Kediri injava in the Dutch East Indies. He died forty nine years later on 23 December 1939 in New York as the result of an infection he caught after a relatively minor operation on his nose. His father Herman Fokker, had built quite a fortune as a coffee planter in Java. When Tony - as he was called at home - was four years old, father and mother Fokker decided to continue the education of the boy and his elder sister in Holland. The family took up residence in Haarlem just west of Amsterdam. Here, Tony had to go to school of course something he did not care for. Elementary school was a real ordeal for him, and college a complete disaster - in his opinion, "a waste of time". He found satisfaction in other things. Herman Fokker was a competent "do-it-yourself' man, although this term did not exist at the turn of the century. His dear son was soon as capable with tools as he was. Tony was handy with model trains, steam engines and later on, his leak-free tire. A driving license and a pilot's license were the only paper evidence of his abilities that he had to take him through life. They were enough however for him to become one of the world's most famous aviation pioneers. Few Dutchmen have meant as much to aviation as he did.

Motor Mechanics School

Because Herman Fokker insisted that his son should learn a trade, he sent him in the summer of 1910 to a motor mechanics school in Bingen Germany.. However within 24 hours, Anthony realised that the school was no good - and he wrote to this effect to his parents. As an alternative, he suggested a driving school in Zahlbach near Mairiz, Germany. In his letter he purposely did not mention that the school also gave instruction on flying and aircraft construction. Flying fascinated him. It was something new in which he could indulge his technical abilities. Although the driving school had a few cars at its disposal, it had no aviation equipment. The students themselves designed and built aircraft under the guidance of the chief of the aeronautics department, one Bruno Buechner, who knew as much about aviation as his pupils. Consequently the training was not entirely successful. Fokker and Lieutenant Franz von Daum, a fellow pupil of twice Fokker's age, decided therefore to start up on their own. Von Daurn was a well-off officer who had money to finance an engine. In addition, Fokker got 1,500 Deutschmarks from his father which enabled him to start building his first aircraft. This was a design using numerous bracing wires and accordingly was called the 'Spin' (Spider). The aircraft made its first hop at the end of 1910. But the joy was shortlived. Von Daum hit a tree when trying to take off and the Spin was damaged beyond repair. The engine was still useable for a second Spin but this machine was also wrecked by von Daum. At this point, Fokker broke off his collaboration with the officer.

Learning to fly

Part of the construction work for the two Spins had been contracted out by Fokker to an academically-trained technician Jacob Goedecker. With his assistance, Fokker built a third Spin and taught himself to fly on it. The enthusiastic letters he wrote home about this persuaded his father to ask him to make a demonstration flight over Haarlern on the occasion of the Queen's birthday in 1911. Herman Fokker, it should be said, was a member of the local Orange committee organizing Haarlem's festivities for that day. The publicity-conscious Anthony Fokker did not let this opportunity pass. That year on 31 August and on the three following days, he flew over Haarlem. The result: proud parents and wildly applauding Haarlemmers who had never before seen anything like it. Thanks to a second seat in the Spin, Fokker could give fare-paying passengers their baptism of the air. This second seat - it is not certain if it was installed from the start - also enabled the Spin to be used as a training aircraft. Fokker saw businessopportunities. He departed for the then throbbing heart of German aviation: Johannisthal airfield near Berlin. At first people looked condescendingly upon the young Dutchman - until he started to demonstrate his Spin ..... The aircraft manufacturers at Johannisthal were only too willing to take this talented individual into their service, but Anthony preferred to remain independent. He founded his own company, Fokker Aviatik GmbH, which was entered on the Berlin trade register on 22 February 1912. Up to that moment, Fokker had called his company Fokker Aeroplanbau. With a capital injection of 50,000 Dutch guilders from his father, Fokker built up a business of selling aircraft and giving flying lessons. He attracted the interest of the German military authorities to whom he was able to sell two aircraft in his first year. . In 1912 he fell in love with a Russian woman, Ljuba Galanschikoff, who later bought an aircraft from him. Puschka, as she used to be called, soon left him however and, to his distress, departed for Paris. All Fokker's later relations with women also ended unhappily. His marriage to Sophie Marie Elisabeth von Morgen in 1919, ended in divorce after only four years. A few years later he married the American Violet Eastman, who died in 1929 after falling from a hotel window under uncertain circumstances. In 1913 Fokker sold ten aircraft and the number of flying students increased so rapidly that Fokker Aviatik Gesellschaft began to make a profit. The company moved to Schwerin in Northern Germany that year and was renamed Fokker Flugzeugwerke GmbH, later shortened to Fokker Werke GmbH. The advent of the First World War in 1914 brought a major breakthrough for Fokker. Military orders came pouring in and during the war years his factory delivered close to 4,000 aircraft, including many types that became the tenor of Allied pilots. Other factories in Germany, Austria and Hungary also built hundreds of Fokker designs. Fokker rejected subsequent criticism of his contribution to the German war effort. Compared with Germany, neither his own nor other countries had shown any interest in his aircraft prior to the war. After the war, Fokker brought large numbers of German aircraft and parts over the border to Holland. Here, on 21 July 1919 he founded the N.V. Nederlandsche Vliegtuigenfabriek which took up residence on land in. North Amsterdam where late that summer ELTA (Eerste Luchtverkeer Tentoonstelling Amsterdam) the first air travel exhibition in Amsterdam, was held. A second factory was established further south in the Zeeland village of Veere, in a rented building earlier used by the Dutch Naval Aviation Service. In Schwerin before the end of the war, they had already begun to think about the possibilities of aircraft for commercial air travel. With the end of hostilities, an era began in which commercial aircraft were to play an important role

rnzoli
11-03-2005, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Are these 2 the same company or completely different? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AFAIK some Soviet pilots called the FW-190s "Fokkers". Understandable.

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 07:53 AM
Meet the Fokkers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

csThor
11-03-2005, 08:24 AM
What needs to be added is that Heinrich Focke left Focke Wulf to found his own company as his interest was the development of helicopters. His Focke-Angelis Fa-223 "Drache" was one of the first true helicopters in Germany - and probably the first really practical one in the world (though there were other designs before, but they were nearly impossible to control).

Xiolablu3
11-03-2005, 08:31 AM
So they are completely different companies. Thx guys, thats what I wanted to know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
His Focke-Angelis Fa-223 "Drache" was one of the first true helicopters in Germany - and probably the first really practical one in the world (though there were other designs before, but they were nearly impossible to control). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tha Focke-Angelis is the one in that photo where it is test-flown by a German woman pilot inside a Stadium or a big gym, right?

edit: Now that i remember, it was a video, not a photo, probably from World At War. Can't remember. I only remember i found the footage quite impressive.

Heliopause
11-03-2005, 09:32 AM
The Focke-Wulf Fw 61 flew in the stadium....with Hanna Reitsch at the controls.
First flight of the Fw 61: June 26 1936.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2005, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Are these 2 the same company or completely different?

Anyone knwo the history of these names and why/if it was changed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What made you think the two were once the same?

neural_dream
11-03-2005, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heliopause:
The Focke-Wulf Fw 61 flew in the stadium....with Hanna Reitsch at the controls.
First flight of the Fw 61: June 26 1936. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Many thanks.

Xiolablu3
11-04-2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Are these 2 the same company or completely different?

Anyone knwo the history of these names and why/if it was changed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What made you think the two were once the same? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because you here a lot about Fokkers in WW1 but not in WW2, and a lot about Focke Wulf in WW2 but not WW1. (if that makes sense)

I wondered if Focke/Fokker was the same person/company spelt a little differently. Or Fokker became 'Focke' when it merged with Wulf, I dunno, I just wasnt sure if they were related.

I suppose it depends on how you pronounce the two, I say them identically, as in 'Focker' Not sure what the proper pronunciation is.

Thanks all.

iron_guantlet
11-06-2005, 12:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wayno7777:
The company was founded in Bremen on 23rd October 1923 as Bremer Flugzeugbau AG by Prof. Heinrich Focke, Georg Wulf and Dr. Werner Neumann. Almost immediately, they renamed it Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau AG. In 1931, under government pressure, Focke-Wulf merged with Albatros-Flugzeugwerke of Berlin. The resourceful engineer and test pilot Kurt Tank from Albatros became head of the technical department.


Anthony Fokker was already a successful aircraft designer-producer. The war heightened his prominence. Although the records were destroyed in World War II, it is known that he produced more than sixty distinct aircraft designs during this period. The great German aces of the war - Voss, Immelmann, Boelke, and Richtoffen - achieved their outstanding records with the help of the "Fokker." Accomplishments including the E series, the D-VII, which was probably the best fighter of the war and the DR-1 tri-plane made famous by the Red Baron. He developed the machine gun synchronizer in just 48 hours after being given the assignment. In the postwar years Anthony Fokker emigrated to the U.S. and continued his work in the design and production of transport aircraft. It was his famous tri-motor aircraft on which airlines of the World were based in the late 1920's. It was these rugged, high performance ships of the air that the great air explorers made famous: the U.S. Air Corp's Fokker T-2 which made the first nonstop transcontinental flight from New York to San Diego, Byrd's Fokkers which flew over the Poles, the great endurance flight of the Question Mark, and Kingsford Smith's Southern Cross.

He passed on December 23, 1939. So, I would conclude that there was no relationship between the two companys.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok...what about the Tri engine made by the Ford motor company?

RAF_Loke
11-10-2005, 02:24 AM
Thanks for the history lessons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

jimDG
11-10-2005, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
A French test pilot, whos name I forgot, was flying a plane with metal deflectors on the propeller, wish crash-landed. Antony Fokker improved on this system, and came up with the forward firing syncronised gun system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roland Garros
(lots of people think he was a great French tennis playerhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
Fokker reinvented an already patented (in Switzerland) gun sync gear. He got sued for decades for not paying royalties and lost and lost over and over again - but never actually payed anything. The Frenchman who had invented it didnt have time to perfect it so he opted for the deflector plates on the prop, to begin with. An year after that the real sync gear was installed on French and latter British a/c.
But priority is French.

Funny thing, patents. A german company payed a considerable sum (milions of pounds in today's money) to a UK company after WW1, for the production of a hand granade, the mechanism of which had been patented in UK before the war. Considerable numbers of those hand granades had been produced in Germany and used to blow Brits to pieces http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. And the Brits made money out of it, in the end http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. And on top of it, there was big scandal about this in the UK.. "we are making money out the blood of our sons" etc.
Absurd.

Kocur_
11-10-2005, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dasriech:
Roland Garros, the French named a town after him & I think they play world class tennis there </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was quite a surprise to learn that Roland Garros was more than the second most prestigious grand slam.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Garros was the first to fly over Mediterranean, in 1913.
He went back to operational flying at the end of war after escaped from POW camp, but was KIA in november 1918...