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View Full Version : R/L pilots vs. Sim pilot FM perception



p-11.cAce
10-19-2005, 11:44 AM
FIRST I SWEAR I AM NOT FISHING!!!!!
I think that the FM is only getting better & better in terms of the piloting skill needed to get the most out of the a/c. I read in another post that a simmer was complaining about yaw - roll coupling; which IMHO is now modeled much better. In my L23 (sailplane) near stall if a wing starts to drop and you try to correct with aileron you fall off into a spin - you have to pick up the wing with the rudder. It seems counterintuitive but do it wrong in the pattern & you're a statistic. I find the "bobbing & weaving" to be more immersive as I figure you're always bouncing around in turbulence - and you should be getting trounced by propwash when trailing behind and below an enemy a/c (dropping into the wake of a 300hp pawnee is a nightmare I can't imagine what a 2000hp fighter or a box formation of heavy bombers would put off - diving through or dropping behind a flight of -17's or 29's should have you fighting for control). In R/L your a/c is constantly drifting around, bouncing, shuddering, wandering off-course, etc - its not like driving a car; everything is connected & needs constant attention. Rarely can you move one control & not have to move/adjust all the others. I think many of the R/L pilots understand this as the sim FM is not as detailed as R/L and the "sim only" pilots (however much you may have read and studied - it is NOT the same as being there) are learning to adjust to a more detailed FM. I would like some constructive thoughts on this as I was once (2002) a "sim only" pilot and am not implying that it is a negative thing only that somethings that work in the sim don't in R/L & vice-versa. Believe me landings in any plane I've flown (Cessna, Pawnee, L23, L13, ASK21, Outback Trike) are WAY wasier in R/L than almost anything in the sim!

p-11.cAce
10-19-2005, 11:44 AM
FIRST I SWEAR I AM NOT FISHING!!!!!
I think that the FM is only getting better & better in terms of the piloting skill needed to get the most out of the a/c. I read in another post that a simmer was complaining about yaw - roll coupling; which IMHO is now modeled much better. In my L23 (sailplane) near stall if a wing starts to drop and you try to correct with aileron you fall off into a spin - you have to pick up the wing with the rudder. It seems counterintuitive but do it wrong in the pattern & you're a statistic. I find the "bobbing & weaving" to be more immersive as I figure you're always bouncing around in turbulence - and you should be getting trounced by propwash when trailing behind and below an enemy a/c (dropping into the wake of a 300hp pawnee is a nightmare I can't imagine what a 2000hp fighter or a box formation of heavy bombers would put off - diving through or dropping behind a flight of -17's or 29's should have you fighting for control). In R/L your a/c is constantly drifting around, bouncing, shuddering, wandering off-course, etc - its not like driving a car; everything is connected & needs constant attention. Rarely can you move one control & not have to move/adjust all the others. I think many of the R/L pilots understand this as the sim FM is not as detailed as R/L and the "sim only" pilots (however much you may have read and studied - it is NOT the same as being there) are learning to adjust to a more detailed FM. I would like some constructive thoughts on this as I was once (2002) a "sim only" pilot and am not implying that it is a negative thing only that somethings that work in the sim don't in R/L & vice-versa. Believe me landings in any plane I've flown (Cessna, Pawnee, L23, L13, ASK21, Outback Trike) are WAY wasier in R/L than almost anything in the sim!

StellarRat
10-19-2005, 01:01 PM
Based on my Cessna experience I agree with you, but I'm not sure how this translates to WW II fighters. They are much faster and heavier than anything I've flown. I don't notice these things on a commercial flight much. It's hard to say to what extent we should notice these behaviors.

neural_dream
10-19-2005, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
Believe me landings in any plane I've flown (Cessna, Pawnee, L23, L13, ASK21, Outback Trike) are WAY wasier in R/L than almost anything in the sim! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Landings in R/L are easier because of the huge difference in Situational Awareness (in good weather) and the fact that the civilian aircraft are designed to be safe to fly and land. WW2 military aircraft were exactly the opposite. In fact only the Americans designed their fighters with considerations for safety (armour,speed,safety vs agility, because they weren't in such national danger to have to put their pilots' lives in huge risk) and the Russians for ease of flying (because they didn't have enough experienced pilots).