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Gwalker70
11-15-2005, 09:33 PM
I used to play open pit servers .. I made the jump to full cockpit servers and I am having trouble.. my main problem is when I am tracking a target, I need to pull lead to fire most of the time,,, the problem is that the enemy plane is being covered by my nose and I cant tell what he does.... or if I am leading correctly with the stream of shells.

the closed pit servers are a lot tougher as far as pilots as well. its hard to just get a flat zero angle shot on somebody. they are usualy turning or manuvering as well and have really good awareness of whats around them.. I usually just try and B&Z an enemy plane that is busy.,, that works out great, but again.., pulling lead as I am coming down is trouble becuase of my nose...

thanks for the help

Gwalker70
11-15-2005, 09:33 PM
I used to play open pit servers .. I made the jump to full cockpit servers and I am having trouble.. my main problem is when I am tracking a target, I need to pull lead to fire most of the time,,, the problem is that the enemy plane is being covered by my nose and I cant tell what he does.... or if I am leading correctly with the stream of shells.

the closed pit servers are a lot tougher as far as pilots as well. its hard to just get a flat zero angle shot on somebody. they are usualy turning or manuvering as well and have really good awareness of whats around them.. I usually just try and B&Z an enemy plane that is busy.,, that works out great, but again.., pulling lead as I am coming down is trouble becuase of my nose...

thanks for the help

polak5
11-15-2005, 09:43 PM
get closer wait for him to make a mistake there is gona be a split second when u have a shot, take it!
Soo for example lets say that ur in a turn with someone and ur on his six...keep in the turn if u think ur gona catch up with him, if he sees that ur catching up with him he might turn back towards the other way, in this transition his plane will get right in ur crosshairs, that is ur chance.
If u wana shot in a turn make sure ur close, very close.
good luck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Flying_Nutcase
11-15-2005, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
I used to play open pit servers .. I made the jump to full cockpit servers and I am having trouble.. my main problem is when I am tracking a target, I need to pull lead to fire most of the time,,, the problem is that the enemy plane is being covered by my nose and I cant tell what he does.... or if I am leading correctly with the stream of shells.

the closed pit servers are a lot tougher as far as pilots as well. its hard to just get a flat zero angle shot on somebody. they are usualy turning or manuvering as well and have really good awareness of whats around them.. I usually just try and B&Z an enemy plane that is busy.,, that works out great, but again.., pulling lead as I am coming down is trouble becuase of my nose...

thanks for the help </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like I get to be the first to congratulate you on making the transition. One thing that will help with overall tracking is TrackIR. Some will disagree, but 95% will back it as being a worthwhile investment.

As far as the prob you specified above, you have to play with the angles - keep the bandit in sight as much as poss - and if necessary make a blind 'predicted' shot, preferably at fairly close range. Practice off line in the Quick Mission Builder, or better still make your own little training missions in the Full Mission Builder. It's not always easy so you'll need to be patient.

Good luck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Gwalker70
11-15-2005, 09:55 PM
I use the CH throttle mini mouse as my track IR.. works the same. I mapped the mouse look to it.. so I do have head movement simulated.

I guess I just spoiled myself on the open pit servers too long.. now I am paying the price

diomedes33
11-15-2005, 10:50 PM
congrats on taking the next step. Take it from one who knows, things will be a bit frustrating for awhile.

The best advice I can give is learn patients. Take the time to set up an attack run (sounds like you are already doing this). If you miss, zoom climb back up to altitude and set up for another run. Take a couple seconds too look around for enemies that have snuck up on you. All Clear? Set up for another run. Always fly smooth and let the other guy burn his energy. You can swoop in and score while he's floundering. I fly mostly FW-190s, but these apply to any B&Z fighter (P-51, P-47, etc ...).

To answer your specific question. If the enemy is flying straight and level, dive below and rake his belly as you come back up. This will let you see the deflection. If he sees you, fly to where he will be and fire when you get close.

The biggest change I noticed when I switched over was my mentality. In an open cockpit server, I had a good mission when I came back with five or more kills. Now I have a good mission when I return to base in one piece, kills are a bonus.

Xiolablu3
11-15-2005, 11:00 PM
If I am on a closed pit server I will shoot a lot when I cant see the plane, guessing when he will be in the correct place, its not that hard once you get used to it, practise in QMB.

I don't like the closed pit full realish servers as much because I find I waste so much time flying around getting bored. Yes it may be more 'real' but its just pretending in the end, we all know this will always be a game. If I was getting the thrill of real flight then of course I wouldnt find it dull up there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

If you find it too hard/dull on full real just fly on the servers you enjoy...If that enjoyment comes from flying on full real then go for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If not then stay on the action servers

On full realish/cockpit on servers people with TrackIR and the full gear will hammer you a lot. If you are gonna fly full real more often consider investing in 'the works' (trackIR,rudder pedals) as you are obviously pretty keen on the whole 'sim' thing and I think you will find a lot of the 'trainspotters/regulars' on those servers have the full gear anyway.

rnzoli
11-16-2005, 02:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
pulling lead as I am coming down is trouble becuase of my nose... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. Takes a lot of practice to estimate the path of the turning plane, then pull the lead and fire, go around, repeat....etc. Got to be patient, some passes will be unsuccessful, especially when the opponent watches you and times his turn correctly out of your gunsight.

The good thing that it works to your advantage when you are beeing B&Z-d, too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nakamura_kenji
11-16-2005, 03:05 AM
actul find blind fire when turn far easy make compare high deflection 3 9 attack.

advice pratcice qmb with turn fight plane you start get feel when fire even when no able see enemy

Codex1971
11-16-2005, 03:12 AM
Practice Deflection Shooting...

This track is from our Squad's C.O.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/codex1971/Tracks/deflect190_right.ntrk

F19_Ob
11-16-2005, 03:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gwalker70:
.....my main problem is when I am tracking a target, I need to pull lead to fire most of the time,,, the problem is that the enemy plane is being covered by my nose and I cant tell what he does.... or if I am leading correctly with the stream of shells.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a passing thing and u get used to firing at targets that u don't see, although it may sound strange at first. U are still used to the no-pit style and it takes a while for that to ware off.

With experience U will get a feeling for when it's time to fire after pulling lead.
What maneuvers the enemy do when u don't see can be predicted to a degree by learning to read the situation aswell as angle and speed of the enemy (again with experience).
U can actively help the process by recording and examining your online tracks and see what the enemy usually does when fired upon.
By studying your opponents planes u learn what they can and can not do and from there can predict certain things.

Example: If the enemy plane cant push forward well because the engine cuts or because that movement is slow in that type it's likely that he wont use that maneuver much. That means u know that he likely will pull when u shoot and u now can predict that.
If the opponents plane is worser than yours in slow speed, or cant hold energy well, or climb u can better predict his next move in the battle.

A good tip is to practise deflectionshooting in quickmission builder and record the session.
Did the majority of your shots go ahead or behind the target? That is important to know.
The more times u do this the better u will remember the situation and time it takes to pull correct lead.

Deflectionshooting is something u constantly have to mantain by practising. Flying many planetypes makes it a lot harder to get the feeling for it. The experience thing makes up for some and allows u to fly many types and still have a reasonable idea for how much deflection is needed.


well, a few thoughts. Give it some time and don't care that u are shot down often at first.

chaikanut
11-16-2005, 03:34 AM
It is the opposite with me; I struggle in open pit servers since everyone can pull great shots with deflection and I find it too disorientating to fly in open pit.

Sturm_Williger
11-16-2005, 04:28 AM
That's definitely one thing about TIR - it practically forces you to fly with cockpit on - otherwise you don't know where you're looking.

I remember struggling too, when I made the jump to cockpit, but I couldn't go back now. Stick with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F16_Neo
11-16-2005, 04:54 AM
Hi and welcome to the cockpit!
A thing I learned before I bought my TIR, was to look around with the mouse. It eventually got totally natural to hold the mouse with the left hand, tracking enemys simultaneous with manouvering the plane, with occasional small 1s pauses from mouse to adjust throttle.
"Leftmouse"-tracking will take some time to get used to though, but that's true for TIR as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
So if you got place for it, and don't want to invest in a TIR for whatever reason, above is my best tip for cockpit-on flying.

Codex1971
11-16-2005, 06:15 AM
Yeah TrackIR makes a big difference to the way you fly...TrackIR 4 has been released so you may find some cheap deals for TrackIR 3Pro http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LEBillfish
11-16-2005, 06:51 AM
I think most here speaking of TrackIR are speaking from flying purely internal, no extenals at all not just cockpit on vs. an invisible cockpit......It will help in either case (though don't know don't have it)......However as to what you're asking;

Sounds like for a while now you have been able to fly without having to think ahead much or pay attention to certain things as you've not had to which is natural.

Now trying to fly with a cockpit, you'll need to start thinking in terms of "what will he do and how will I know" vs. "I see I react". A HUGE part to that is quite simply making mental note of what common responses are from your opponents to your actions. Do they tend to break left, break right, roll and dive, what?

In kind you'll soon start to see patterns where in if X player reacts in "X way to A", he's very likely to react in "Y way to B" & "Z way to C"........Now that's no fool proof method nor is it intended to be. What it is however is the gaining of instinct as after some time not having sight to rely on you'll start to simply know or guess better and better....Really all it is, is exactly what I spoke of above, learning reactions and patterns.

Now as I said it's not fool proof......However, what it will do is make you instinctively begin to set up to counter many possibilities. I myself as habit have noticed when I attack will dive in deliberately overshooting low, then climb that little bit attacking low 6. Now I never thought about it till now, however what that leaves me with is a great position as I can hit ANY vital part, yet more so if he climbs, dives, banks, rolls I can see it. If I were level or high he could roll out and I might lose him.

In kind I tend to after the strafe climb above and roll over on my back to look down setting up for the next pass. Again I can see any move he makes, and more so have just retained some E to dive with.......So essentially, you'll begin to acquire flying habits that help you to see.

Yet your question was how do you shoot.

As your instincts get better soon you'll also sense not just how, when or to where an opponent will evade....Yet how long they will hold that manuever. So lets say you are matching his bank, matching it means you'll shoot behind, so in time you'll simply get a sense of "he is in this manuever and intends to hold it long enough for me to gather lead"...At that point you'll "instinctively" increase your turn and fire at the appropriate time to either nail him directly, or let him fly through the stream.

You have actually practiced this yet don't realize it still relying on sight. When your opponent begins to scissors to evade, I refuse often to follow dependant upon if I think he will continue doing so. If I think he will I slow to not pass him, and simply shoot each time he passes from side to side in my sights "always having to still lead the shot" by firing just before he gets into my sight view.......Now I bet you've had to do that often, well it's exactly the same thing you can just see.

All it is is time. In time a luxury we have here you'll begin to form habits that keep your opponent in your "view", then deliberately put him "out of view" to fire. There is no trick or magic to it....It's simply time and learning how others generally fly "instinctually"....The more you fly soon you'll notice you're improving without thinking about doing anything different....That simply you acquiring those instincts.

Xiolablu3
11-16-2005, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F16_Neo:
Hi and welcome to the cockpit!
A thing I learned before I bought my TIR, was to look around with the mouse. It eventually got totally natural to hold the mouse with the left hand, tracking enemys simultaneous with manouvering the plane, with occasional small 1s pauses from mouse to adjust throttle.
"Leftmouse"-tracking will take some time to get used to though, but that's true for TIR as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
So if you got place for it, and don't want to invest in a TIR for whatever reason, above is my best tip for cockpit-on flying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really need to do this but I find it really hard using my mouse in the left hand...well done if you have mastered it.

Some great tips here, just remember that before you can estimate where the plane is and when to fire with cockpit on, you must have mastered deflection shooting first. You will not be able to fire at an unseen plane if you cannot do deflection shooting reasonably well. Obvious statement I guess but dont try and run before you can walk.