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View Full Version : Would you find this Hartmann post?



TooCooL34
02-04-2004, 08:36 PM
Searched 1 hour and failed to find the post.

It went like this. (It might be wrong cause it relies on my memory.)

----------------
I(The writer) was USAF over western Europe. I escorted bombers as usual.
blah blah blah
There came German intercept fighters suddenly. and furball blah blah..
One 109 was aiming my wing leader, so I chased him to shoot but couldn't make it cause he was too good. We happened to fly together and I saw the number '300' at vertical stabilizer. I didn't know what it meant at first. But I became to know it was kill number! I was so scared and blah blah blah...
After hard fight, I came back to home plate, and they said it was Erich Hartmann who had bounty on his head. I never heard about bounty for pilot's head.
-------------------------

Anyone remember this post title or saved that post? I give up, I can't find it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
I promised to translate that article to squad members. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TooCooL34
02-04-2004, 08:36 PM
Searched 1 hour and failed to find the post.

It went like this. (It might be wrong cause it relies on my memory.)

----------------
I(The writer) was USAF over western Europe. I escorted bombers as usual.
blah blah blah
There came German intercept fighters suddenly. and furball blah blah..
One 109 was aiming my wing leader, so I chased him to shoot but couldn't make it cause he was too good. We happened to fly together and I saw the number '300' at vertical stabilizer. I didn't know what it meant at first. But I became to know it was kill number! I was so scared and blah blah blah...
After hard fight, I came back to home plate, and they said it was Erich Hartmann who had bounty on his head. I never heard about bounty for pilot's head.
-------------------------

Anyone remember this post title or saved that post? I give up, I can't find it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
I promised to translate that article to squad members. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

T_O_A_D
02-04-2004, 08:44 PM
I searched for Hartman. It was before the forum change.
And Tenmmike posted it. Hes the man http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif well thats the least I can do after punking him out last night. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=70210055&r=81210055#81210055

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

TooCooL34
02-04-2004, 09:03 PM
Woohoo!!
You are my savior.
Thank you, TOAD!

I love this forum, quick, kind and wise. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JG52_Helgstrand
02-04-2004, 09:47 PM
Thanx for that, missed that post first time around. Great read!

Oblt.Helgstrand
JG52 Recruiting Officer

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/091203-NewSig_JG52.gif JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)

cd.jakevas
02-04-2004, 09:55 PM
Funny, Iā'm reading the stories, and Iā'm laughing and amazed. Nothing around me is real, only thing I see are the text in front of me, and the pictures my imagination is displaying. Then I look down the post and see my name, I donā't remember reading these before http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Is it possible to lose ones mind at 20.

http://members.cox.net/jakevas/sig7.jpg

TooCooL34
02-04-2004, 10:06 PM
YOu've grown up and see different pictures on same text. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

T_O_A_D
02-04-2004, 10:16 PM
Your Welcome!


JAKE!!!!!!! JAKE!!!!!!!! JAKE!!!!!!!!
Shaking Jakes Shoulders
Can ya hear me mate?

Oh Crap someone call the paramedics. I don't think he's breathing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif



Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

Achilles97
02-04-2004, 10:34 PM
Awesome.

Those stories make it seem that a Mustang can outclimb a 109, and that 109 pilots like to turn fight. Is that right?

Zen--
02-04-2004, 10:37 PM
I've read in a couple of places that the story is untrue and a real stretch of the imagination.

For one, according to what I've read, Hartman did not have his kill markings displayed on his plane. If it's the same story I'm thinking of, Hartman never had a red heart on his plane...he typically had the black nose petal scheme on his plane Karaya.


The story is very entertaining, just possibly not factual.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

Zen--
02-04-2004, 10:41 PM
Yep, thats the story I was thinking of. Excellent read.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

Art-J
02-05-2004, 02:31 PM
Hey Zen, I tend to disagree, regarding red heart question. In one of the old magazines from my archive, I remember seeing drawings of all Hartmann's 109s, and most of them had red heart painted near the cockpit (sometimes with name "Ursel" on it). I'm not sure about the kill number on rudder though... On the other hand, I've just checked all my 109 skins, downloaded from il2skins.com, and I've found one Hartmann's G-10 scheme with black nose (like you described), red heart AND kill number. Of course I don't now what the skin-maker reference was and how accurate his work is. I don't know if the story is true, but the markings might look like that. Maybe maniacs from painschemes forum can give us more info?

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Haribo-Zeke_small_3_txt.jpg

lazio5
02-05-2004, 02:55 PM
T O A D ..could you please tell how you found that. Everytime i look for threads before the change to get importand info from i come up empty handed in my searches. I was looking for a quiz Rola_Pl did in November also.

Xnomad
02-05-2004, 03:41 PM
In Hartmann's biography it says that he removed the black tulip markings as it was scaring the enemy off and his flight were not getting any kills because the enemy was hiding. I was under the impression that he removed this long before he fought against US airmen.

When I read the story the first time it just all seemed too fake to me, I'm sorry if it annoys you but I don't believe it's real.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

Zen--
02-05-2004, 04:31 PM
Art, I've seen a lot of skins and artwork like that too, but I'm left with a lingering impression that for whatever reason he never actually flew with the heart and kill markings. The black tulip pattern was definate and as Xnomad said he even had to stop using it because he couldn't get any kills but that on occasion he lent his plane to his wingman to help keep them alive. I don't remember a mention of the heart though.

I've read his book 'Blond Knight of Germany' a few times and don't recall for some reason specifics on that, but as I said its a lasting impression that he didn't.

I could be wrong and am more than willing to admit if so, but that story doesn't jive with me. I guess I am pretty sure I've read that it was bunk, but can't remember why now lol.

Wait, let me bust out a chart before the forum wolves tear apart my comments.

____
disagree 100%
____
agree 100%
____
Zen, you are insane 100%
____


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

MPortus
02-05-2004, 04:56 PM
This story pops here every 6 months. It's a good read, but not real.

I don't have re-readed again but I remember from other times it has many suspicious things, like the writer not shotting at Hartmann because "was scared to shot his fellow pilot in front of hartmann"... ok so don't shoot and let Hartmann finish him. Hartmann's plane description issues already pointed be Zen, Hartmann laughing at the writer and pointing at his tail showing his kills and that we would be next (very strange in Hartmann to do this kind of thing if you have read his bio). Hartmann showing he has his plane clean of bullet hits while going side by side with his foe... and more than I can't remember.

Sorry but I don't believe it.

lazio5
02-06-2004, 12:54 AM
i remember something to the effect of hartman pointing to insignia on his plane and laughing, as if the opponent was supposed to be scared.

TOAD?

tenmmike
02-06-2004, 01:24 AM
that hartmamnn story has no meriet....hartmann did not ever post a 300 kill mark on his plane..also hartmann was not the type of man who would do such a thing as " gloat'over things and to do the things that are reported by that statment.................maybe he did but its not his personaity to do such a thing... he never mentiond that in any thing iv read ..that he said

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Fri February 06 2004 at 12:33 AM.]

tenmmike
02-06-2004, 01:35 AM
TOAD... *** beating on its way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

(FIN)-Cowboy
02-06-2004, 03:10 AM
Can't say anything about the authenticity the story, but the killnumber was two hundred, not three:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-ErichHartmann.html#p51vshartmann

Plus, he did have the heart painted on his machines:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tosimies/images/karaya.jpg

Also the killmarks (around 115 when this was taken):
http://koti.mbnet.fi/tosimies/images/hartmann.jpg

About the black tulip... can't find any real wartime pictures of it, but I have seen a picture about his F-86 with the same paint.

[This message was edited by Tylymiez on Fri February 06 2004 at 02:26 AM.]