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jarink
01-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Article (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iaiw99_qI93PvMomEJ078dvZwedA)



Respected German historian Guido Knopp has compared a speech by US actor Tom Cruise to the Church of Scientology with a call to war by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.

In remarks described by the movement as "horrendous and disgraceful," Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with Bild am Sonntag newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels."

The historian was commenting on a video recording of a rousing sermon Cruise delivered to fellow Scientology members four years ago that was recently posted on the Internet.



Knopp said it was bound to remind Germans of Goebbels' notorious call for "total war" issued in Berlin on February 18, 1943.

"It is possible that the way in which Cruise speaks is common in many empowerment circles in the United States," he said.

"But the scene in which Cruise asks if the Scientologists should clean up the world and they all respond 'yes' will remind any German with an interest in history of Goebbels' infamous Sports Palace speech."

Frankly, I used to like Tom Cruise as an actor. "Risky Business", "The Outsiders", "Taps" and naturally "Top Gun" were all great movies with Tom's acting playing a big part in their success. In recent years, though, I have for the most part stopped watching his films. His off-camera politics and antics have really made me wonder just what kind of person he is and if I can in good conscience support his career. His on-camera presence has dimmed greatly as well. Given the type of performances he's put in over the past few years (MI:III anyone?), I can only wonder about his 'performance' in this video. (Anyone have a link? I'm at work and all streaming video is blocked.)

Don't forget, this is a guy that owns and flies a P-51. Maybe according to this report, he'd rather have a 109?

Discuss. (politely) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

jarink
01-21-2008, 11:31 AM
Article (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iaiw99_qI93PvMomEJ078dvZwedA)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Respected German historian Guido Knopp has compared a speech by US actor Tom Cruise to the Church of Scientology with a call to war by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.

In remarks described by the movement as "horrendous and disgraceful," Knopp, an expert on World War II history, said in an interview with Bild am Sonntag newspaper: "Tom Cruise's manner calls to mind Goebbels."

The historian was commenting on a video recording of a rousing sermon Cruise delivered to fellow Scientology members four years ago that was recently posted on the Internet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Knopp said it was bound to remind Germans of Goebbels' notorious call for "total war" issued in Berlin on February 18, 1943.

"It is possible that the way in which Cruise speaks is common in many empowerment circles in the United States," he said.

"But the scene in which Cruise asks if the Scientologists should clean up the world and they all respond 'yes' will remind any German with an interest in history of Goebbels' infamous Sports Palace speech." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frankly, I used to like Tom Cruise as an actor. "Risky Business", "The Outsiders", "Taps" and naturally "Top Gun" were all great movies with Tom's acting playing a big part in their success. In recent years, though, I have for the most part stopped watching his films. His off-camera politics and antics have really made me wonder just what kind of person he is and if I can in good conscience support his career. His on-camera presence has dimmed greatly as well. Given the type of performances he's put in over the past few years (MI:III anyone?), I can only wonder about his 'performance' in this video. (Anyone have a link? I'm at work and all streaming video is blocked.)

Don't forget, this is a guy that owns and flies a P-51. Maybe according to this report, he'd rather have a 109?

Discuss. (politely) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-21-2008, 11:36 AM
I like Tom cruise. I think he`s a good bloke in general and this goebbels talk is rubbish.

His real problem is he`s looking for meaning in his life rather than constant pointless films and making constant pointless soulless fortunes. Amd yes, it does become meaningless.

At this time people become needy and vulnerable. If lucky they find an outlet that does them good, if unlucky they find scientology.

PraetorHonoris
01-21-2008, 11:43 AM
Guido Knopp is a lot of things but he is surely NOT respected among academics who often even refuse to say his name, calling him "Herr K.".

Unfortunaty the state TV has given him a position allowing him to broadcast very prominently to the viewers - a fact which makes serious academics even more angry at him.

JG53Frankyboy
01-21-2008, 11:49 AM
Mr. Knopp should be taken always with a grain of salt........................

as i dont like Scientology and for what it stands, and i was "shocked" about this vido and Cruises behave in it........... Knopp went to far in t hat comparison !

anyway, as this is an english speaking forum , and Scientology is at least a "church" in the USA - i dont think disussing religion is a good idea in this forum.

MEGILE
01-21-2008, 12:22 PM
Scientology is a racket, nothing more.

jadger
01-21-2008, 12:23 PM
Scientology is banned in Germany, just an FYI.

and besides, Goebbel and Cruise are nothing alike, Goebbels had a club foot.

Also, does anyone else notice how that article turns into a plug for Cruise's new movie?

voyager_663rd
01-21-2008, 12:24 PM
Here's a video about Tom Cruise telling us how he (and the other members of his troop) are going to save the world

http://defamer.com/344987/the-tom-cruise-indoctrination...dont-want-you-to-see (http://defamer.com/344987/the-tom-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientologists-dont-want-you-to-see)

In the end, he basically says it's his way or the highway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

joeap
01-21-2008, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Discuss. (politely) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Well IBTL, but seriously I will repeat what others have said in that I think this "historian" went too far in his comparison. I am no fan of Scientology though, given their record of harassing people who try to leave or say things they don't like. I don't care if they believe in Xenu or whatever, just as I don't care about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Friendly_flyer
01-21-2008, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
If lucky they find an outlet that does them good, if unlucky they find scientology. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put, SeaFire!

I read the story in the news, and I too think the comparison a bit over the top. It does however, highlight a bit of cultural difference between the US and Europe. While Cruices speech may have been perfectly acceptable in the USA, Europeans have a knee-jerk reaction to inflammatory speeches, flag-waving, unison shouting of name of own country, groups of people raising one arm in the air at the same time etc. I guess having two world wars raging across your continent do that to cultures.

Bewolf
01-21-2008, 12:55 PM
Eh, I am not suprised. Lots of US christian television priests fullfill the Goebbles clichι. So Cruise using it or not is hardly worth a note.

I do not take church people (not be confused with "religious" people") serious anyways. That includes Tommy. And Guido didn't recieve enough love when young. Do not take him serious either.

Waldo.Pepper
01-21-2008, 01:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSZYN8UV6yg

LEBillfish
01-21-2008, 01:29 PM
Well frankly after watching much of the T.C. video posted by voyager above I am only able to gather the following conclusions about him and his religion....

1. He (always and still does) have a terrible time expressing himself. Somewhat "anti-eloquent" if you will, a wordsmith he is not nor even all that great trying to imply something through expression or exuberance.....Goebbles he is not by a long shot, as there is little charisma in Cruise.

2. I found little to nothing threatening in his diatribe. Quite simply it stating that due to his beliefs he must take up responsibilities even when not affecting him, and ownership in his own life yet also in the worlds state itself...Anyone finding issue with that needs to re-evaluate their own ethics a word he used (too) often.

3. Know little of his religion (have my own and don't worry you'll know mine once I conquer the world and make you all my slave dog footstools...err, forget that last part)...Yet all religions believe in spreading the faith. So what, go for it...

4. The only time I was impressed by anything good or bad about him was his reaction here... http://origin.www.spike.com/video/2673927 ...Very restrained and mature, doubt many of us would be as such (myself especially).

5. Let us not forget the great service he tried to do for the world.... http://www.collegehumor.com/video:162165


That last act alone gets him my vote http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cajun76
01-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Actually, there are a plenty of left wing, Bush hating sites, in particular, that sound just like a Goebbles speech, down to the syntax and terms they use.

Tom Cruise is mostly harmless, unless you have a young, cute, successful actress as a daughter. Then, be afraid, be very afraid.

Bremspropeller
01-21-2008, 02:30 PM
Rather speaks for the leftie sites.

leitmotiv
01-21-2008, 02:47 PM
I knew nothing about Scientology in 1971. I gave a ride to a hitch hiker who was a Scientologist, and he asked me if I would like to hear about it. I went with him to the local HQ in Davis, California, and there received a lecture on the program and costs (which were to a college kid astronomical). I said thanks and started to leave, but they blocked me, and said I had to leave "something valuable" with them. They wanted my watch which was a graduation present. Ain't no way. Being a cunning b-----d, I offered him my pack of cigarettes. I said I was quitting, and had vowed I'd buy no more after this pack. They bought it, and I split silently wishing many huge poxes on them and their generations.

A few years later, a friend told me a horror story about a friend of his wife who decided to leave the organization. Members descended on her house with the police to seize her children. They had sworn out documents which claimed she was a debauched, morally corrupt woman, and had a sympathetic judge grant the organization custody of her children. There were lawyers galore in the organization, and they snarled her in a litigation nightmare.

I can't say I can have too much favor for the outfit. They have tons of clout now. Lawyers, judges, politicians, media types like Cruise and Travolta.

DuxCorvan
01-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Scientology beliefs seem so crude and ludicrous, one wonder how can a sane adult be ready to swallow such laughable bullsh*t, less propagate it. But, oh, well I guess that cult made up with cheap comic stuff is regarded as a religion (?) by some people, so... IBTL. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW, Cruise never seemed a good actor to me, and his smile makes me want to punch him in his nose. And to think that guy got Nicole Kidman... GRRRR! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Bremspropeller
01-21-2008, 03:01 PM
Tom Cruise is...dangerous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

knightflyte
01-21-2008, 03:03 PM
Damn! I thought I was the only one who thought T.C handled the squirting incident rather well.

It's easy to pick on actors and others in the media. Some put themselves there, others have it thrust on them.

Frankly, I think Tom has found the only refuge where he can feel he's not pulled from any and every direction.

Being in the spotlight to the excess anyone like that has been isn't healthy. Look at how many lives lay like debris. It's easy to ascribe them as freaks, wierdos, or mentally unstable.

Truth of the matter is that in many ways their idiotic lifestyle choices and behaviours are a result of the intense hot eye of public scrutiny.

When's the last time someone took pictures of you with your significant other on vacation, in your living room ,shopping, eating in restaurants, on the crapper, in the airport.....screaming your name because for some reason your work meant something to that person.

I've got no problem with Tom. I think he's a good actor. That's all I need to know about him. He de=serves his privacy, but many think otherwise. Wonder how they'd react if vthey wore the same shoe he, or many of the other stars that are idolized for so long and then brought down.

(Though I think he should have kept his mouth shut about Brook's post partum depression)

Von_Rat
01-21-2008, 03:14 PM
i also think he handled the squirting incident in a very mature manner.

i would of slugged the basturd.

leitmotiv
01-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Though he is a representative of a very dubious organization, and though most of his films I can't abide (top of the list Top Goon), I had to give him huge credit for a terrific job of acting in Magnolia where he had to really hang it out on a line---which most big stars quit doing after "making it." He was also great in Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut.

buzzsaw1939
01-21-2008, 03:59 PM
Scientology?...Cruise and Travolta are unknowing puppets!..be very afraid!!

Don't ask. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

jensenpark
01-21-2008, 04:34 PM
Tom Cruise the next Joesef Goebbels?

Can't be...Goebbels was straight.

JG52Uther
01-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Is scientology a religion? If so then from the TOS:
Post content or send Communications of any form impugning someone's race, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, political beliefs, or ethnic heritage.
So...IBTL I hope before we start talking about other peoples religions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

buzzsaw1939
01-21-2008, 05:13 PM
I agree! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
01-21-2008, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jadger:
Scientology is banned in Germany, just an FYI.

and besides, Goebbel and Cruise are nothing alike, Goebbels had a club foot.

Also, does anyone else notice how that article turns into a plug for Cruise's new movie? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scientology is not banned in Germany, but it is closely watched by the government to ban it with the slightest step outside the religion-thing.

I don't know if Tom Cruise is really a scientologist by believe, but he is number 2 on the scientology hierachy. Funny to think this rather intelligent man really believes that he was a great old soul sitting in a vulcano until he was freed by a nuclear bomb and now has to free the old soul in himself. For sanity sake I hope he's just in for the money...

buzzsaw1939
01-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Waldo... I just got to your vid link, excellent!

My wife heard it and said, "he sounds like you honey"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

roybaty
01-21-2008, 05:35 PM
People grasping for meaning when there are no hard answers, that is the root of all religions, it's hard living life accepting the fact that you don't really know why the hell you're here.

I myself am an agnostic, I accept I don't know. Unless I have hard proof I will not subscribe to any belief. I have said this before if something materializes in front of me an says "Yep, I'm God." and slaps me in the face maybe does a miracle or two I'll reconsider.

People who deeply believe (i.e. the littoral interpretation of the Bible or Qur'an for instance) any religion leave me somewhat put off.

R_Target
01-21-2008, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Though he is a representative of a very dubious organization, and though most of his films I can't abide (top of the list Top Goon), I had to give him huge credit for a terrific job of acting in Magnolia where he had to really hang it out on a line---which most big stars quit doing after "making it." He was also great in Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought he was pretty impressive in Magnolia too. He seemed a little wooden to me in the Kubrick film though. Maybe because Sydney Pollack stole that whole film in his brief scenes.

M_Gunz
01-21-2008, 06:05 PM
He acts like a coke-head.

Viper2005_
01-21-2008, 07:00 PM
"Too early for lock - switching to guns!"

Cajun76
01-21-2008, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jensenpark:
Tom Cruise the next Joesef Goebbels?

Can't be...Goebbels was straight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom Cruise is NOT gay!

Look at Micheal Jackson. He married a hot chick, so he's not gay!

Here is the proofs!

youtube.com/watch?v=xHklGtW3rwU

Not clickable because of Ma-Ture language!

Ok!

jarink
01-21-2008, 08:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
He seemed a little wooden to me in the Kubrick film though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only during Nicole's nudie scenes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

R_Target
01-21-2008, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
Only during Nicole's nudie scenes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.virtualtravel.freeuk.com/images/giant_sequoia2.jpg

Luke5skywalker4
01-21-2008, 10:12 PM
Tom Cruise is just...crazy, that's all there is to it. Goebbels, however, would be proud of modern government's use of propaganda.

csThor
01-22-2008, 01:13 AM
In Germany Scientology, while not banned, is not considered a religious community but a private club. The top brass is howling and mewing about it as they a) lack official sanctioning (= public acceptance) and b) pay taxes and do not get money via the route of church-tax. They even tried to influence US political circles to exert pressure on Germany (Cruise in the front again) but german officials have enough insight into their so-called beliefs (through intelligence sources such as ex-members first and foremost) that Scientology has zero chance of ever getting the "church stamp" over here.

Feathered_IV
01-22-2008, 02:20 AM
You can really see the light of true fanaticism in his eyes. Quite scary.

Found an interesting glossary to the clip:

Apparently, non-Scientologists are just "spectators." It's a far nicer thing to call us "” kind of like "Muggles in "Harry Potter" "” than the term they usually use, "wog," which is more equivalent to the derogatory "Mudbloods" in the "Potter" books. Here's a breakdown of some of the other Scientologese words, acronyms and turns of phrase "” culled from a variety of sources, including books, Web sites, and current and former church members "” that might get lost in translation:

LRH: L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the Church of Scientology and author of sci-fi books such as "Battlefield Earth" and "Mission Earth."

"I take this as a half-ack": What was that sound? A furball? Actually, a "half-ack" "” a half-acknowledgement "” means you were encouraged. In LRH's communication theory, you have to give signals to pre-clears (people who have not yet "cleared" themselves of unwanted emotions) "” like "good," "OK," "I got that." Get that?

KSW: Keeping Scientology Working. Refers to a policy LRH published in 1965 that requires all Scientologists to follow his words and rules exactly.

"It is something that you have to earn": Cruise is referring to taking Scientology courses. According to the church, to get to the higher levels of Scientology "” he's an OT VII, the highest level is OT VIII "” you must complete a number of courses and auditing sessions, a sort of Scientological take on the Catholic confession. And it all costs; depending on your level, the tab for wisdom can be hundreds if not thousands of dollars. To finally learn what the basis of Scientology's precepts are (about how we got remnants of space aliens known as thetans trapped in our system), you must attain the level of OT III. The secrets of Xenu aren't free!

"Am I going to look at that guy or am I too afraid?": Cruise's relentless stare is actually a technique from "Success Through Communication" training routine (TR) drills. According to former and current members, pre-clears have to learn to look someone straight in the eye for hours. It's supposed to generate self-confidence and intimidate the other party. No blinking!

"... Because I have my own out-ethics": The church says ethics are moral choices but belong to a distinct moral system, based on LRH's book "Introduction to Scientology Ethics." If you misbehave, you have "out-ethics." If you're behaving, you have your ethics "in." To put your ethics "in" someone else, as Cruise later says, is to make someone else conform.

"The ability to create new and better realities and improve conditions": "Conditions" refer to LRH principles, which are charted on a scale. It's a Scientologist's goal to "improve conditions," which means improving your relationship with yourself and to those within your group. The "conditions" (in order) are: confusion, treason, enemy, doubt, liability, nonexistence, danger, emergency, normal, affluence, power change and power, according to numerous accounts of church practices. These are the practical applications of "ethics."

Tech: Otherwise known as "ethics tech." The methods and principles learned in Scientology courses.

"Orgs are there to help": Not Orcs from "Lord of the Rings" "” orgs, as in Scientology churches and other organizations, such as Narconon, Criminon and Second Chance, all of which can be found online.

Criminon: Scientology group that recruits through prisons, promising alcohol and drug rehabilitation.

SP: "Suppressive Person." An SP is someone who commits suppressive acts, like murder, criticizing Scientology or altering LRH's teachings, according to former and current members. Journalists are automatically considered SPs because they traffic in bad news and so are barred from entering Scientology. Psychiatrists would also be SPs, so Cruise says, "Crush these guys! I've had it! No mercy! None! Go to guns!" as a call to arms. Since all's fair in war, LRH once issued a policy called "Fair Game" that decreed that anyone who opposed Scientology could be "tricked, sued or lied to and destroyed." The church says it no longer officially practices this, however, it is still a fairly contentious organization.

PTS: "Potential Trouble Sources," as in Scientologists who are losing the faith or are being influenced by an SP.

PTS/SP: A course in how to "handle" and/or "disconnect" PTS and SPs, which usually costs about $1,600, according to estimates from church members.

Ratsack
01-22-2008, 02:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
"Too early for lock - switching to guns!" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am laugh!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

AlGroover
01-22-2008, 03:04 AM
Its amazing how many articles crop up in English speaking press quoting 'Bild'. You don't have to read German to see that its a tabloid with screaming headlines. And this being the Sunday edition too. Draw your own conclusions. As for Cruise. Maybe his real name's Kruse hmmmm. He's an actor, full stop. But then so was Reagan so maybe we should be worried.

WOLFMondo
01-22-2008, 03:34 AM
Scientology is just like the Masons. Exclusive club you have to pay to be in.

Should be noted that while people knock Scientology, the fact is was invented by a nutty 50's Sci-fi author who said aliens are at the head of it is just as outlandish as believing in an all powerful omnipresent deity invented by some unknowns in the ancient middle east.Pot-kettle-black etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ratsack
01-22-2008, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Scientology is just like the Masons. Exclusive club you have to pay to be in.

Should be noted that while people knock Scientology, the fact is was invented by a nutty 50's Sci-fi author who said aliens are at the head of it is just as outlandish as believing in an all powerful omnipresent deity invented by some unknowns in the ancient middle east.Pot-kettle-black etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just keep your stove grease to yourself, China.

I don't see why atheists should be tarred with that brush. Just because some people believe in the deity of some goat-herding nomads from the ancient Middle East, there's no reason to get all holier than thou about Scientology.

I mean, you don't get Shintos shatterin' sheet glass in the sh1t house and shoutin' slogans...

Ratsack

ViktorViktor
01-22-2008, 04:21 AM
Last time I checked, L. Ron Hubbards' science fiction novels were still being sold.

How can someone take a religion seriously when the founder was a 1950s science fiction author ?

csThor
01-22-2008, 04:35 AM
Scientology has as much to do with religious beliefs as an argentinian bull with the breakfast egg of an old matka in Novosibirsk. It's a psycho sect and a means for Hubbart's crazy fantasies of domination and control. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Ratsack
01-22-2008, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Scientology...[is] a psycho sect and a means for Hubbart's crazy fantasies of domination and control. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't beat around the bush, mate, just come out and say what you mean, please. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ratsack

fabianfred
01-22-2008, 05:03 AM
To get anywhere on the path to freedom....we have to try and diminish the ego....the cause of most problems in this world

...and film stars are at the top of the ego chain

..that said...I enjoyed Top gun ...although it was corny....and The last Samurai...because I have an interest in things japanese

JG52Uther
01-22-2008, 05:04 AM
But...is it a religion? I mean,officially recognised at least in some countries? If it is,then this subject should not be discussed here.
I myself am an Irish Roman Catholic,you might be an English Protestant,a Muslim,a Methodist,an Evangelist,a Buddhist, or any number of other religions,some obscure,some very well known. Should we start laying into each other/other people because we don't like/don't agree with whatever religion that person believes in?
If someone posted about ,for example, some famous whacko who followed YOUR religion,would you be happy to see it trashed on this forum? Would you think that was acceptable?

The-Pizza-Man
01-22-2008, 05:29 AM
I find it amusing that people call the beliefs of Scientologists laughable, the aliens and spaceships parts, and still think Christianity is any less ridiculous. I mean there is some seriously crazy sh*t in the bible.

M_Gunz
01-22-2008, 06:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
To get anywhere on the path to freedom....we have to try and diminish the ego....the cause of most problems in this world

...and film stars are at the top of the ego chain </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I envy that you don't know about politicians......

M_Gunz
01-22-2008, 06:17 AM
Hubbard did say that if you really wanted to make money then -invent- a religion.
Then he proved it.
He also proved how STUPID a great number of people really are.
Too bad that he also dragged the human race down like every other demagogue.

Not all Lotus flowers bloom above the water.

buzzsaw1939
01-22-2008, 06:26 AM
Hey Gunz... your makeing some good sense today! what happened? get a good nights sleep? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif it always works for me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MEGILE
01-22-2008, 06:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Though he is a representative of a very dubious organization, and though most of his films I can't abide (top of the list Top Goon), I had to give him huge credit for a terrific job of acting in Magnolia where he had to really hang it out on a line---which most big stars quit doing after "making it." He was also great in Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought he was pretty impressive in Magnolia too. He seemed a little wooden to me in the Kubrick film though. Maybe because Sydney Pollack stole that whole film in his brief scenes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I used to like Tom Cruise.. Jerry Maguire was pretty funny.

But I cannot stand this Scientology business.

C'est la vie.

MEGILE
01-22-2008, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Hubbard did say that if you really wanted to make money then -invent- a religion.
Then he proved it.
He also proved how STUPID a great number of people really are.
Too bad that he also dragged the human race down like every other demagogue.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-22-2008, 07:47 AM
The forum`s getting controversial lately. Excellent!

*Gets popcorn, sits back*

roybaty
01-22-2008, 08:01 AM
Hmmmm maybe I'll start my own religion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Hubbard did say that if you really wanted to make money then -invent- a religion.
Then he proved it.
He also proved how STUPID a great number of people really are.
Too bad that he also dragged the human race down like every other demagogue.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DuxCorvan
01-22-2008, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
I find it amusing that people call the beliefs of Scientologists laughable, the aliens and spaceships parts, and still think Christianity is any less ridiculous. I mean there is some seriously crazy sh*t in the bible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm an atheist. But I must admit that Christianity is at least based on an quite old cultural tradition and is mostly... free. You don't have to pay 1,500 bucks to go to a church and hear that Jesus left the planet in a spaceship completely identical to a DC-8, but much larger...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Xenu_space_plane.jpg

"The kidnapped populace was loaded into space planes for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth). The space planes were exact copies of Douglas DC-8s, "except the DC-8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't. (...) Now, science fiction writers following the cue of some chap, I've forgotten his name now, Einstein, Beinstein, something like that, who said that MC squared over C wouldn't go, man, and that the speed of light could not be excessive. And actually I was looking up some speed tables the other day, and a trillion light years per day is not full throttle on a space wagon. So there's traffic between galaxies and there's traffic between islands of galaxies and other islands of galaxies. Interesting." [L. Ron Hubbard, "The Helatrobus Implants", SHSBC-266, lecture of 21 May 63]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bewolf
01-22-2008, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
I find it amusing that people call the beliefs of Scientologists laughable, the aliens and spaceships parts, and still think Christianity is any less ridiculous. I mean there is some seriously crazy sh*t in the bible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm an atheist. But I must admit that Christianity is at least based on an quite old cultural tradition and is mostly... free. You don't have to pay 1,500 bucks to go to a church and hear that Jesus left the planet in a spaceship completely identical to a DC-8, but much larger...


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ehh, the church in its prime was not much better, really. The middle ages were quite comparable in church practices to get money.

Luckily enlightment struck, and commmon sense got the better of mysticism in general, even if it cost countless lives. It's just a pity that ppl fall to these ideologies to this very day whenever they seek a sense in life instead of just using their brains.

SeaFireLIV
01-22-2008, 09:39 AM
*Chuckles- has another handful of popcorn*

jarink
01-22-2008, 09:49 AM
OK, OK, maybe we should cool the Scientology debate a bit. More on-topic, (well, sort of), what do you good people and fellow WWII aviation enthusiasts think about TC's P-51?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/entertainment/2006-04/11/xin_310403111621727307879.jpg

http://www.katieholmespictures.com/users/nimages/mery/2006/Apr/0412/tkairplane01t.jpg

I think it's generally a good thing that someone so prominent in the public eye has a 'thing' for vintage airplanes, but I really wish he'd stuck with an historic paint job. It used to be "Montana Miss", which really wasn't all that accurate either (I can't find either name nor the serial # 44-12840 in the database of 4th FG aircraft on littlefriends.uk), so maybe it's not that bad?
Mustangs Mustangs page (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/survivors/pages/44-12840.shtml)

WOLFMondo
01-22-2008, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
But...is it a religion? I mean,officially recognised at least in some countries? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it has the right to be a religion as much as any other belief.

How different is it from some fat Nepalese guy harping on about Zen and leaving material possessions behind and people deciding to follow that or some crazy desert dude telling people he was handed a book directly from god and that people should live by that book?

If its to be belived, according to the last UK census, a good percentage of Brits are Jedi's.

Bewolf
01-22-2008, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
But...is it a religion? I mean,officially recognised at least in some countries? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it has the right to be a religion as much as any other belief.

How different is it from some fat Nepalese guy harping on about Zen and leaving material possessions behind and people deciding to follow that or some crazy desert dude telling people he was handed a book directly from god and that people should live by that book?

If its to be belived, according to the last UK census, a good percentage of Brits are Jedi's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

define "religion"

ephemere1962
01-22-2008, 10:19 AM
The problem isn't if it should be called a sect or a religion.... every religion started by being a sect... the only difference is the relative success...

The problem is about the eventual use of mental or physical constraints and manipulation on the believers.
Scientology got sued twice in France for such kind of abuses... both times the files were robed in the court just before or during the trial, thus canceling the whole procedure.

It at least raises some questions....

MEGILE
01-22-2008, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:



" I've forgotten his name now, Einstein, Beinstein, something like that, who said that MC squared over C wouldn't go, man, and that the speed of light could not be excessive. And actually I was looking up some speed tables the other day, and a trillion light years per day is not full throttle on a space wagon. " [L. Ron Hubbard, "The Helatrobus Implants", SHSBC-266, lecture of 21 May 63]

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hilarious.

I cannot believe it hasn't occured to any Scientologist to ask themselves.. where did Ron Hubbard get (make-up) his information from.
It boggles the mind.

Crash_Moses
01-22-2008, 10:43 AM
Einstein, Schmeinstein...

Bring on the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Give me money and I'll make sure you get extra sauce...Paypal preferred.


http://www.flyingspaghettimonster.com/
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/FSM.jpg

MEGILE
01-22-2008, 10:44 AM
I have the Gospel of the noodly appendaged one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Crash_Moses
01-22-2008, 10:53 AM
Ditto. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a framed copy of this hanging on my wall.

If Al Gore only knew! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/piratesarecool4.gif

WOLFMondo
01-22-2008, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:


define "religion" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believing either some greater being(s) created everything and/or believing in an ethic or fundamental set of beliefs.

Scientology fits pretty well.

MEGILE
01-22-2008, 11:01 AM
God help us all if those 17 pirates are caught.

Crash_Moses
01-22-2008, 11:14 AM
Arrr... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

buzzsaw1939
01-22-2008, 02:49 PM
mmmm... Makes me wonder how I ever made it without some group organizeing my beliefs. I most be a rotten human "bean"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Ratsack
01-22-2008, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
...

define "religion" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll find it on the top shelf, in the same bottle with ideology. It says, 'Caution: causes imaginary relationships with reality' on the label.

Ratsack

I_KG100_Prien
01-22-2008, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Though he is a representative of a very dubious organization, and though most of his films I can't abide (top of the list Top Goon), I had to give him huge credit for a terrific job of acting in Magnolia where he had to really hang it out on a line---which most big stars quit doing after "making it." He was also great in Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the instructors I had early on in my Navy career was stationed aboard the Enterprise when they were filming Top Gun (In fact you can see him in the film, at the end in the big celebration.. he's wearing the flight deck headgear that says "3-C" on it- he had a funny story about that as well...).

Some of my classmates were curious as to what it was like to meet Tom Cruise in person and our instructor said he was a pompous jerk. Only wanted to talk to the Officers and acted like the enlisted guys were beneath him. (The instructor is a retired Chief Petty Officer).

He told us about the time the CPO mess invited him to have dinner with them, and he declined because he wanted to have what ever "cuisine" the Ward Room was having.. Which turned out to be cold cut sandwiches that night.. If I recall correctly the CPO's had steak.

He went on to say that Val Kilmer was a much nicer person, who was friendly to everyone, and never acted as if his fame made him superior.

M_Gunz
01-22-2008, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crash_Moses:
Ditto. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a framed copy of this hanging on my wall.

If Al Gore only knew! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/piratesarecool4.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was known long before Gore and a supply ensured.

There Be Pirates! (http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=pit)

fabianfred
01-22-2008, 07:49 PM
To me ...a religion is a set of beliefs...or explanations.....

to try and answer the BIG questions....why are we here....and what happens when we die...???

there are various theories...and we call them religions......... people try and look for PROOF that one or another is THE correct one...but that cannot be.....

things spiritual are a matter of personal experience....we can only convince ourselves...we cannot prove something to someone else...nor convince someone else....they have to do that....if people are too lazy to try and discover the truth...and just sit back waiting for others to come and prove things to them.....they will never progress

spiritual progress is a personal journey...you can have the map and be told which is the correct path to follow....but YOU must start walking that path http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

..and yes...I forgot about politicians....but film stars and pop stars are made famous by ordinary people.....politicians SEEK fame and don't care about what others think or want

politicians are quite another animal.... close to being the worst...they seek power...knowing that power corrupts

Bewolf
01-23-2008, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
...

define "religion" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll find it on the top shelf, in the same bottle with ideology. It says, 'Caution: causes imaginary relationships with reality' on the label.

Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could not have worded it any better.

GIAP.Shura
01-23-2008, 05:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:


define "religion" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believing either some greater being(s) created everything and/or believing in an ethic or fundamental set of beliefs.

Scientology fits pretty well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the "and/or" makes your definition invalid. If this was the case anybody with a fundamental set of beliefs would be called religious, even strictly secular, humanist aetheists. If your definition just used "and" it would be closer to the truth but wouldn't encompass the faith aspect of religion which seems to me a defining characteristic; at least until present time, no religion has shown proof for its belief system.

I think a better definition would be:

A belief system based on a mystical explanation of reality, often dealing in metaphysics and ethics.

By that definition Scientology would still be considered a religion, which doesn't mean that it is not a cult. If LRH could show objective proof for his statements, it would pass into the realm of scientific fact (which doesn't necessarily make it true either).

Even though it is a religion, that doesn't mean that it is not dangerous and if it infringes on the individual rights as defined by the laws of the countries in which it operates, it should be pursued for those infringements. Of course, perhaps the General Discussion forum for IL-2 is not the best place for criticism of any such infringements.

Personally speaking, I don't really care about his personal beliefs, or Travolta's for that matter. As far as his films go, I can enjoy Top Gun for the bugglegum that it is and I thought his performances in Magnolia (I wonder where he got the inspiration for that one) and Rainman were good but everything else is totally meh. I particularly dislike "Far and Away". When it comes down to it he is an entertainer and comparing him to Goebbels is totally inane. Why do people assume that Hollywood actors have such influence in the world?

Blood_Splat
01-23-2008, 06:36 AM
I heard TC is building a ten million dollar bunker to protect him from a alien invasion lol.

M_Gunz
01-23-2008, 07:41 AM
I suggest viewing the entire 10 episode series of "The Day The Universe Changed" and then if
you understand to walk away from the "we know reality" creedo, at least for those who hold it.

Ask yourself what you can prove about your experience totally without any assumptions of the
world being how you see it. If you think you can prove more than you seem to have experience
and self then you've failed already. We are only able to work from assumptions and while we
can do incredible things on that basis we can't say what holds it all up. Yes Nancy, there
is a metaphysics that's just as real as anything else even if you never knew. In 1000 years
people may be saying how incredibly backward we all are if there are people at all, if they
are not just scraping to survive thanks to us.

Socrates had the right of it, shadows on a cave wall.

Whirlin_merlin
01-23-2008, 08:25 AM
I think the real question should not be is scientology a religion? But why does 'it' wish to be classed as a religion?

Take away the special treatment given to religions and it's no longer an issue.

BTW by special treatment i don't just mean in money/tax terms http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Just imagine if the advertising standard rules applied to religion.

M_Gunz
01-23-2008, 11:06 AM
And to think I missed out on being a Branch Davidian defending against the BATF.

That old time religion!

Dance
01-23-2008, 11:41 AM
What is it with these delusional people, is there some correlation with being short and being a megalomaniac? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cajun76
01-24-2008, 12:33 AM
Additional info available about the interview.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3f716ffebe

BigKahuna_GS
01-24-2008, 03:22 PM
S!

There is a large Scientology compound out by my sister's house in Riverside (Hemet) California. They have armed guards with automatic weapons patroling the compound and it is very very private. The name of the heavily-armed compound is called Gold Base (or Golden Era Studios). There have been reports of some very strange things occuring out there for years. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Read the list of some of the things built on "Gold Base".
http://www.clambake.org/archive/ronthenut/tabayoyo.htm


One man's fight against Scientology:

http://www.operatingthetan.com/#myth

On 26 Apr 2001, Keith Henson was convicted of "interfering with a religion",
a misdemeanor under California law, for picketing outside Scientology's
heavily-armed, razor-wire enclosed base outside Hemet, CA.


Scientology is not a religion. It is somewhere between a Cult and a hard core fraternity/secret society that worships success, power & money. The do not worship God & Jesus, they worship themselves.


Haven't ran accross a Christain Church yet with guard shacks, razor wire, MP5s & a secret code for entry/exit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



An interesting Scientology read:

"Let's sell these people a piece of blue sky."

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/atack/contents.htm (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/Library/Shelf/atack/contents.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Scientology is quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic, the most litigious and the most lucrative cult the country has ever seen. No cult extracts more money from its members. -- Cynthia Kisser, former Executive Director, Cult Awareness Network. </span>



-

BigKahuna_GS
01-24-2008, 03:38 PM
S!

This was also under "Let's sell them a piece of Blue Sky"

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/atack/whatissc.htm (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/Library/Shelf/atack/whatissc.htm)


From London courts:

WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious... it is corrupt, sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based upon lies and deceit and has as its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard, his wife and those close to him at the top. It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestioningly and to those who criticize or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people, especially children and impressionable young people, and indoctrinate and brainwash them so that they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living and relationships with others."

- <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Justice LATEY, ruling in the High Court in London in 1984 </span>


"As soon as one's convictions become unshakeable, evidence ceases to be relevant - except as a means to convert the unbelievers. Factual inaccuracies... are excusable in the light of the Higher Truth."

P.H. HOEBENS


-

WOLFMondo
01-24-2008, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
The do not worship God & Jesus, they worship themselves.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are allot more religions and people that don't worship the Christian god than do. And theres several religions, big ones that don't worship any diety.

I don't like it any more than most others but can't have one rule for one and one rule for another.

At one point in history Christianity was a small sect practicing weird and potentially dangeous customs or what must have been weird to the Jews and Romans just as we look at scientology. Imagine reading the first testemant as a Roman, I'd be scared ****less of the god portraid in that book!

joeap
01-24-2008, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dance:
What is it with these delusional people, is there some correlation with being short and being a megalomaniac? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.

joeap
01-24-2008, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
The do not worship God & Jesus, they worship themselves.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are allot more religions and people that don't worship the Christian god than do. And theres several religions, big ones that don't worship any diety.

I don't like it any more than most others but can't have one rule for one and one rule for another.

At one point in history Christianity was a small sect practicing weird and potentially dangeous customs or what must have been weird to the Jews and Romans just as we look at scientology. Imagine reading the first testemant as a Roman, I'd be scared ****less of the god portraid in that book! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardly, the gods of the Romans could be vindictive and violent.

The problem is not what X religion did in the past. It's what the Scientologists are doing to some people NOW detailed by Kahuna above.

BigKahuna_GS
01-24-2008, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wolfmondo--There are allot more religions and people that don't worship the Christian god than do. And theres several religions, big ones that don't worship any diety.

I don't like it any more than most others but can't have one rule for one and one rule for another.

At one point in history Christianity was a small sect practicing weird and potentially dangeous customs or what must have been weird to the Jews and Romans just as we look at scientology. Imagine reading the first testemant as a Roman, I'd be scared ****less of the god portraid in that book! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Hya Wolf,

I think you are missing the point--They pass themselves off to be a sort of "christain based religion", even though the main teachings are from Hubbard/dianetics and a comglomeration of other religions.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Sociologist David G. Bromley of Virginia Commonwealth University characterizes Scientology as "a 'quasi-religious therapy' that resembles Freudian 'depth psychology' while also drawing upon Buddhism, Hinduism and the ancient, heretical offshoot of Christianity known as gnosticism."</span>

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Scientology_Cross_2.jpg
Scientology Cross

Crazy_Goanna
01-24-2008, 04:55 PM
Thanks Kahuna, now after reading the tabayoyo document I am really freaked -- New World Order stuff really scary stuff

Dance
01-24-2008, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dance:
What is it with these delusional people, is there some correlation with being short and being a megalomaniac? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're quite sure?

Messaschnitzel
01-25-2008, 12:58 AM
It is not only the Scientologists that are weirdos. I lived in Marin county, CA. for many years, and here is some of the goofy cr@p that I have been a witness to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard_and_Associates

Erhard and his bunch were affectionately known as "EST-holes", due to their pushy and barely concealed threatening demeanor. They always backed down when they would meet any hard resistance to their charms. Show any meekness or inability to say "no thanks", and they would be all over you. Think of them as those bicycle riding, squeaky clean pests that knock on your door at inapropriate times, only with an unpleasant and agressive streak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Free_John

This guy was a fat,lazy hustler who found a perfect place to peddle his particular brand of bullsh!t. Over the years, I would meet people who were former adherents who finally at some point saw this huckster for what he really was.
Every one of these people that I met happened to not have strong personalities and tended to be of a mild mannered disposition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon

I remember seeing these blank faced goobs walking around. With their trademark bald heads, they reminded me of Marlon Brando's character when I saw Apocalypse Now a few years later. The FBI stepped into the situation when they caught wind of these harmless Synanon folks having automatic weapons. FBI = no sense of humor when it comes to firearms that spit more than once each time you pull the trigger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharians

http://www.breatharian.com/wileybrooks.html

I remember the first time I found this was reading the classified section of a local newspaper. The ad was about a seminar in which this Wiley Brooks guy would teach you how to live on nothing but air, and that the seminar would cost $300.00. I thought, what kind of fool would pay that much money for a bunch of nonsense? I guess that it was a lot of fools, because the guy was successful in luring them in. I would think that the name "Wiley" would tip people off to his motives, but I guess not.

The spirit of P.T. Barnum is alive an well today. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

BigKahuna_GS
01-27-2008, 12:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted Thu January 24 2008 23:58 Hide Post
It is not only the Scientologists that are weirdos. I lived in Marin county, CA. for many years, and here is some of the goofy cr@p that I have been a witness to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard_and_Associates

Erhard and his bunch were affectionately known as "EST-holes", due to their pushy and barely concealed threatening demeanor. They always backed down when they would meet any hard resistance to their charms. Show any meekness or inability to say "no thanks", and they would be all over you. Think of them as those bicycle riding, squeaky clean pests that knock on your door at inapropriate times, only with an unpleasant and agressive streak. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ohhh man, I remember the EST seminar craze in the early 1980's. I knew some people who attended and my big question would be "What did you get out of it ?"

While some people thought it helped most thought it was B.S.--just another very exspensive rip off that faded fast.

_

voyager_663rd
02-02-2008, 11:11 AM
http://calloftheday.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/addictivegame.jpg

Blood_Splat
02-02-2008, 11:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3QqjTsFKm4
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

DrHerb
02-02-2008, 07:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif