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View Full Version : Bf109 Power Off Too Quick! Oleg & 1C will you fix?



LuftLuver
07-18-2004, 03:57 AM
Hi Oleg,

The Bf109 is the ONE plane in your sim that has this serious problem. When I turn off the throttle, my 109 seems to go in reverse and go behind opponents with ease. It is not realism at all.

Please remove the airbrakes from the 109 series. Thank you Oleg.

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LuftLuver
07-18-2004, 03:57 AM
Hi Oleg,

The Bf109 is the ONE plane in your sim that has this serious problem. When I turn off the throttle, my 109 seems to go in reverse and go behind opponents with ease. It is not realism at all.

Please remove the airbrakes from the 109 series. Thank you Oleg.

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Xnomad
07-18-2004, 04:53 AM
Is this a Prop Pitch issue? I haven't noticed that a Bf 109 goes backwards lol. I notice the AI have a habit of throwing out an invisible anchor and braking on the spot but I haven't seen human flown 109's doing this.

Most of the other planes (Russian, American)have manual RPM control with the propellor pitch so if you cut throttle you also have to change the pitch to slow the plane down. The German planes are on automatic so this is done when you throttle down.

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EFG_Zeb
07-18-2004, 05:16 AM
Are you flying the 109 in manual or auto prop pitch?
In manual at high RPM you will decelerate quite a bit when closing throttle depending on your attitude (nose up/down, in a turn).

In US or VVS planes with CSP, maximum braking capability will be obtained at fine prop pitch (100%) and closing throttle (it is kind a like engine brake on a truck, you do it in high gear).

Personally, I see this ability to decelarate as an advantage if used well.

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p1ngu666
07-18-2004, 06:53 AM
109 brakes really well.
i had a 109 on my tail in a il2, couldnt shake it so went for a overshoot, cos that should be easy yeah?

so kill throttle (pitch at 100 tho) and drop flaps to full and im turnin abit too, he gets closer but stays behine, then i drop my gear aswell, hes STILL behind. this was in a MP coop, dunno if it was ai or human.

i think 109 used some flaps but im not sure, didnt put gear down

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Xnomad
07-18-2004, 07:57 AM
You can fly an allied plane with just prop pitch, leave it at 100% throttle and put your prop pitch on the throttle slider, you can control your speed without using the throttle.

I can fly a heavy P-38J against an Ace Bf 109 G-2 flown by the AI and stay behind him for most of the time by just lowering pitch and braking hard with the rudder.

And this is without once dropping the throttle below 100%. Remember the P-38 has sleek lines and is very heavy so it should be very hard to slow down but I can keep up with the nimble little G-2 for quite sometime until the AI decides to use his UFO anchor technique, then I just zoom above him go round and come back on his tail.

I don't usually fly like this but it's just an example of how much the prop pitch influences your speed.

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KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-18-2004, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Hi Oleg,

The Bf109 is the ONE plane in your sim that has this serious problem. When I turn off the throttle, my 109 seems to go in reverse and go behind opponents with ease. It is not realism at all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL ok you can do this with other planes as well just map prop pitch to a slider and viola
with the right pitch and throttle settings you can stay behind a 109 in about any allied plane including the P51 but i guess you didnt know that or atleast you dont want to know so you can moan and B!itch some more about an axis plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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VMF513_Sandman
07-18-2004, 07:31 PM
i have noticed with manual pitch the 109 gets quite a bit of speed, but tendency to over-rev is high. cant figure out where the rpm 'redline' is on 109's to keep from blowin the engine.
pitch in the allied birds is phenominal. supposedly u can throw an anchor out for a quick landing, but havent figured out how to yet. are u using low pitch to get alot of speed on take-offs or is it reversed? i do want to know how in the hell a 109 f-4 can outrun a p-51d-20na at 25% fuel in the 51 and at 7-9k meters...seen some1 do that last nite in ubi. outdived, climbed, and outdistanced me as if i had 3k bombs on the stang and it had no bombs attached

OldMan____
07-18-2004, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
i have noticed with manual pitch the 109 gets quite a bit of speed, but tendency to over-rev is high. cant figure out where the rpm 'redline' is on 109's to keep from blowin the engine.
pitch in the allied birds is phenominal. supposedly u can throw an anchor out for a quick landing, but havent figured out how to yet. are u using low pitch to get alot of speed on take-offs or is it reversed? i do want to know how in the hell a 109 f-4 can outrun a p-51d-20na at 25% fuel in the 51 and at 7-9k meters...seen some1 do that last nite in ubi. outdived, climbed, and outdistanced me as if i had 3k bombs on the stang and it had no bombs attached<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is surely not possible.. are you sure it was a F4 ? A K4 could do it.. but not an F4

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VMF513_Sandman
07-19-2004, 10:01 AM
i chit u not oldman. when i checked his plane, the game reported 109-f4. not only did he climb like a bat out of hell, his dive looked like he was in a p-47 fully fueled with 3 bombs, and came out of the sun from 5k meters, only to rocket away like a ki-84c(and we all know that kite's climb rate).
i chased him all the way to 9k meters, and couldnt get any closer than 1.8. i've never seen this before and havent been able to duplicate it. it wasnt a k4. if it was, there would have been mk108 cannon blasts. he basically didnt even try to engage, just run.

faustnik
07-19-2004, 10:08 AM
Sandman,

There is some known wierdness possible with the diferent patch versions available now. It is supposed to be addressed in 2.04.

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ST__Spyke
07-19-2004, 11:34 AM
yeah gotta love the 109's auto prop pitch, just one of the awsome features brought to you by Messerchmitt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 01:03 PM
planes glide better with 0% pitch. but 100% would give most brake effect irrec

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MEGILE
07-19-2004, 01:11 PM
Somone mentioned lowering the RPM in the Mustang to increase dive acceleration.. how would this work technicaly?

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LuftLuver
07-19-2004, 03:24 PM
Thanks to all.

Explain to me how prop pitch would affect this? If the 109 is fighting at 100% prop pitch, how does pitch on a slider do anything here? If I go to 50% pitch, say, then don't glide better?

109 FM seems wrong in this Power Chop regard, and is the only one I see able to do this.

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OldMan____
07-19-2004, 06:37 PM
Come on.. I do this with almost all planes. Each one has a different effectivenes.. but all do it.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

VMF513_Sandman
07-19-2004, 07:33 PM
bss_vidar noticed that the pitch in csp planes is a bit reversed. in rl, 100% pitch gets the most bite of air with 0% pitch not grabbin any. i have gotten a takeoff roll in a mustang to over 220 knts on the strip dead stop. throttle at or around 88%, pitch at 100. but in a dive, backing off the pitch seems to shift it into a overdrive gear: i've taken a p-40-e model to 2k meters, roll it over after dropping the pitch to 88%, and it will get 560 on the red speedbar in a hell of a hurry. almost seems like a 109's dive speed, and that plane isnt nearly as heavy as a 109. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

faustnik
07-19-2004, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
i've taken a p-40-e model to 2k meters, roll it over after dropping the pitch to 88%, and it will get 560 on the red speedbar in a hell of a hurry. almost seems like a 109's dive speed, and that plane isnt nearly as heavy as a 109. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sandman the P-40E is close to 9000lbs loaded, the 109G2 about 7000lbs. The P-40 had good diving characteristics.

As far as prop pitch, it seems backwards to me too, but, my experience is with bass boats not airplanes. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Ugly_Kid
07-20-2004, 01:29 AM
It's not pitch it is governor rpm. It did not occur that it's probably that Bf is more correct and it's CSP (Constant speed propellor - in almost all other aircraft) that's wrong.

Namely, if you close the throttle the prop will try to maintain the rpm and it will do it so by taking the energy now from airstream, instead of engine - the airstream will pump up the rpm now, not the engine and this should brake quite a lot (even more so than by choosing lower rpm from governor - 0% pitch in FB) - in FB in CSP planes the braking is more effective by setting CSP to 0% pitch which IMO is wrong. Crossing controls is generally not what you should do on CSP: close throttle leave the revs up or vice versa open the throttle leave rpm low. First will cause the said braking, second will probably cause engine damage. CSP normally requires manual adjustments - this is why it's NOT called automatic (as in automatic systems of Bf-109 or Kommandoger¤t of FW-190). The boost control is also something completely missing here. So it's defenately not Bf-109 engine control which enjoys here some unfair advantage over the others, it's more like all the others lack completely their disadvantages. If Bf-109 does not act like the others (not slowing down at all when closing the throttle) it does not automatically mean that it's the one that need to be fixed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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LeadSpitter_
07-20-2004, 01:40 AM
yup its trottle back instant stop needs to be fixed it slows down faster then a dragster with a parachute. 670-to 380 in a couple seconds then can accelarate to 550-560

Also on landings you can land in rought 5 109 lenghts which is shorter then a carrier.

I think they need to fix that and give it slightly less compressibility in the elevator then problems solved for the trottlebackers which we all do so much becuase it works,

that or either add some compressibilty to certain aircraft which seem to have almost none even at 700-900kmph, super elevator but wings will shed off from fast elevator use, I rather see more stickpressure or compressibility then certain aircrafts wings falling off as low as 560kmph from fast stick use and the tiniest bit of rudder while the others shed the wings at 750 from voilent overstress. When flying the 190 which definatly needs better elevator effectiveness very similiar to the p51 the g limit of wings shedding is always the same. With the mustang its varies from 560-760, mostly just from rudder use which is pushing it over the mark.

Another thing that really needs to be looked at is dive accelaration, and how fast energy bleed is, in the p47 for example boom n doom if you miss once, only way you can get a climb advantage is bnzing from 4000-5000m and with no labels can see squat from that height

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