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GunnyBunny001
03-01-2004, 03:52 PM
http://www.netwings.org/pages/default.asp?page=review/boe/boe.html



Battle over Europe
Just Flight

Reviewed by Neil Washbrook

The first of this year's expansions for IL2 Forgotten Battles has hit the streets. Battle Over Europe is published by Just Flight and is authored by Russian Rocket Games. Russian Rocket Games are better know to the community as Luthier and Starshoy, so this product has an excellent pedigree and has been developed in conjuction with 1C Maddox.

Moving to the Western Front, the heart of this expansion is without doubt the enhanced campaign generators for both single and multiplayer. Introducing a number of new campaigns for both the Luftwaffe and the USAAF, the DGEN single player campaigns are much developed from the original included within Forgotten Battles, bringing with it a larger variety of possible mission types.

The innovative inclusion of the NGEN dynamic multiplayer campaign generator is a more than welcome addition and has no doubt been developed using the experiences and feedback gained from the numerous particpiants of the highly succesful online Virtual Eastern Front.

Installation and Packaging
The Just Flight packaging and installations are of their normal high quality and the installation coped well with my non standard Il2 installation. There is a multi language printed manual with all the relevant information in it. This to me is a big bonus, as I much prefer this to the standard these days of just providing electronic documentation. The installation also includes the 1.22 patch which is required to run Battle over Europe.

Single Player - Campaigns
Using the Normandy, Balaton, Ardennes and Berline maps, the dynamic single player campaigns cover 6 different areas/eras and can be flown from either the Luftwaffe or USAAF perspective. The USAAF player can elect to fly either the P47 or the P51, whereas the Luftwaffe plane choice will depend on the campaign itself. This gives a total of 18 different dynamic campaigns with the posibility of hundereds of different missions. By default the AI level is set to medium, yet by manually editing the configuration file this can be changed to either low or high. It would be nice to see this and other options configurable in the GUI, but this is a drawback with Forgotten Battles itself rather than Battle over Europe.

The plane mix you see will depend on where and when you are flying, but be prepared for a fair number of planes in the air at any one time. How well it plays is obviously going to depend on your hardware configuration and game settings. A typical USAAF mission in the Last Days campaign saw 26 B17s, 6 P47s and 6 BF109s in the air at high altitude and plenty of ground objects.

Although not documented in the manual, the more technically minded will be able to tinker with the DGen scripts to reduce the number of planes and the intensity of the gound objects. This will make it acceptable to those with lower powered machines and those that play with insanely high resolutions and detail settings!



Germany - Western Front Fighter

May 1944 France - Bf109 G6
June 1944 The Invasion - Bf109 G6
September 1944 Berlin Air Defense - Bf109 G6 Late
Movember 1944 Hungarian Air Defence - Bf109 G6 Late
December 1944 Ardennes Offensive - FW190 D-9
February 1945 The Last Days - Me262A-1a
USA - P47 Fighter Bomber

May 1944 - Preparing the Invasion
June 1944 - Operation Overlord
September 1944 - Bombing Berlin
November 1944 - Bombing Hungary
December 1944 - The Battle of the Bulge
Februay 1945 - The Last Days
USA - P51 Fighter Bomber

May 1944 - Preparing the Invasion
June 1944 - Operation Overlord
September 1944 - Bombing Berlin
November 1944 - Bombing Hungary
December 1944 - The Battle of the Bulge
Februay 1945 - The Last Days


Stand Alone Missions
Along with the dynamic campaigns, there are a number of stand alone missions included for single player, coop servers and dogfight servers.

Coop - Ardennes, Normandy and Pacific

Dogfight - Ardennes, Normandy, Pacific Early War and Pacific Late War

Single Player - Germany - Operation Bodenplatte

Single Player - UK - Hurricane Night Fighter Intruder. Designed by Ian Boys, the custom skin appears to be missing.

Single Player - USA - Ardennes Dogfight

What's in it for the Online Player?
Battle over Europe includes a new campaign generator called NGEN which uses a different set of algorithms to DGEN which is designed to generate balanced missions for both sides with each side getting their own objectives and planes split into two groups. The first group has the task of completing their sides objectives and the second group is tasked with preventing the enemy from completing theirs. There are three different types of flight for each side, Escort, Strike and Patrol.

The Strike flight is assigned a ground attack role and can consist of any plane capable of carrying out this role from the mightly B17 to strafing with the FW190.

The Escort flight is usually tasked with escorting the Strike group but sometimes can be assigned escort to the Patrol group. On occasions the escort group is not present and the other groups have to complete their tasks unaided.

Finally the Patrol group will be assigned to an area where the opposing Strike force is likely to attack and is tasked with defeating them. To make things a bit more interesting, sometimes the patrol group does not get created making the life of the opposition strike force a little easier.

There are two types of NGEN campaign, historical or fictional. In the historical campaign the front line moves from day to day exactly as it did in real life, whilst in the fictional campaign the placing of the front line is dependent on the results of previous missions. The missions themselves are divided into standard or hosts choice. Standard missions take less input from the host and are usually fairly balanced, whilst host choice missions give the host more flexibility in designing the balance of the missions and can be almost considered a Quick Mission Builder for cooperative games. This could lead to a massive expansion of cooperative online gaming.


Skins
Also included within the installation are a whole host of skins for both flyable and AI planes

Skins USAAF: P-47D-10 "razorback": 8th AF generic, ace skin - Bud Mahurin 56th FG, 78th FG, ace skin - 78th FG "Nice Kitty" P-47D-22 "razorback": 78th FG Olive Drab, 78th FG bare metal, ace skin - 78th FG "MX G", RAF generic, RAF Invasion Stripes, ace skin - RAF 73rd OTU "White 18" P-47D-27 "bubble canopy": 56th FG D-Day, 56th FG Ardennes, 61st FS 56th FG, ace skin - Francis Gabreski 61st FS 56th FG, ace skin - Hub Zemke 56th FG, ace skin - Dave Schilling 56th FG, 78th FG D-Day, 78th FG bare metal, ace skin - 78th FG Scholz, 354th FG, ace skin - 354th FG "AJ D" P-51D-5: 4th FG, 78th FG, 339th FG, 352nd FG, 353rd FG early, 353rd FT late, 357th FG, 361st FG Olive Drab, 361st FG Olive Drab bare metal, 364th FG, RAF B-17G: 94th BG, 303rd BG, 306th BG, 351st BG, 379th BG, 381st BG, 385th BG, 398th BG, 401st BG, 452nd BG, 457th BG, 487th BG

Skins Luftwaffe: Bf-109G-6: III/JG1, ace skin - III/JG1 "White 5", JG26, ace skin - Mietusch III/JG26 "Black 22", JG3, ace skin - Fischer II/JG3 "Black 1" Bf-109G-10: I/JG3 Ardennes, ace skin - Seidl I/JG3 "Black 8" Bf-109G-14: JG53 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - Michel JG53 "Blue 2" Bf-109K-4: JG7 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - JG7 "White 1" FW-190A-8: JG1, ace skin - II/JG1 "Yellow 6", II/JG2, ace skin - Pips Priller II/JG26 "Black 13", II/JG26 D-Day FW-190D-9: JG54 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - JG54 "Yellow 2" Me-262A-2: KG51 Ardennes, ace skin - KG51 "White B"


The Future
Starshoy has already indicated that there are further developments in the works for Battle over Europe to support the soon to be released Aces Expansion from UBI. These will include a Bf110 Interceptor Career, a short Me163 Career, a P-38 Ground Attack career and a Stuka D5 Night Bomber career. At the time of writing, how these updates will be provided is not yet clear, but Just Flight have a good support reputation and with the close cooperation between the authors and 1C Maddox the future for Battle over Europe is bright.

Conclusion
The normal reaction to a product like this is "I can write my own missions" and "I can do my own skins or download them for free". This may be true, yet the quality of the dynamic campaign generator for the offline player and the multitude of possibilities the dynamic online campaign generator provides, makes, in my mind, this a product that is well worth the purchase price and a worthy installation on your computer.

I feel that with the release of the Aces Expansion and any patches Starshoy brings out, Battle Over Europe will really come into its own and become a must have product.

Resources
Just Flight Web Site, Ordering and Support Forums

Virtual Eastern Front Online War

UBI Home Page

GunnyBunny001
03-01-2004, 03:52 PM
http://www.netwings.org/pages/default.asp?page=review/boe/boe.html



Battle over Europe
Just Flight

Reviewed by Neil Washbrook

The first of this year's expansions for IL2 Forgotten Battles has hit the streets. Battle Over Europe is published by Just Flight and is authored by Russian Rocket Games. Russian Rocket Games are better know to the community as Luthier and Starshoy, so this product has an excellent pedigree and has been developed in conjuction with 1C Maddox.

Moving to the Western Front, the heart of this expansion is without doubt the enhanced campaign generators for both single and multiplayer. Introducing a number of new campaigns for both the Luftwaffe and the USAAF, the DGEN single player campaigns are much developed from the original included within Forgotten Battles, bringing with it a larger variety of possible mission types.

The innovative inclusion of the NGEN dynamic multiplayer campaign generator is a more than welcome addition and has no doubt been developed using the experiences and feedback gained from the numerous particpiants of the highly succesful online Virtual Eastern Front.

Installation and Packaging
The Just Flight packaging and installations are of their normal high quality and the installation coped well with my non standard Il2 installation. There is a multi language printed manual with all the relevant information in it. This to me is a big bonus, as I much prefer this to the standard these days of just providing electronic documentation. The installation also includes the 1.22 patch which is required to run Battle over Europe.

Single Player - Campaigns
Using the Normandy, Balaton, Ardennes and Berline maps, the dynamic single player campaigns cover 6 different areas/eras and can be flown from either the Luftwaffe or USAAF perspective. The USAAF player can elect to fly either the P47 or the P51, whereas the Luftwaffe plane choice will depend on the campaign itself. This gives a total of 18 different dynamic campaigns with the posibility of hundereds of different missions. By default the AI level is set to medium, yet by manually editing the configuration file this can be changed to either low or high. It would be nice to see this and other options configurable in the GUI, but this is a drawback with Forgotten Battles itself rather than Battle over Europe.

The plane mix you see will depend on where and when you are flying, but be prepared for a fair number of planes in the air at any one time. How well it plays is obviously going to depend on your hardware configuration and game settings. A typical USAAF mission in the Last Days campaign saw 26 B17s, 6 P47s and 6 BF109s in the air at high altitude and plenty of ground objects.

Although not documented in the manual, the more technically minded will be able to tinker with the DGen scripts to reduce the number of planes and the intensity of the gound objects. This will make it acceptable to those with lower powered machines and those that play with insanely high resolutions and detail settings!



Germany - Western Front Fighter

May 1944 France - Bf109 G6
June 1944 The Invasion - Bf109 G6
September 1944 Berlin Air Defense - Bf109 G6 Late
Movember 1944 Hungarian Air Defence - Bf109 G6 Late
December 1944 Ardennes Offensive - FW190 D-9
February 1945 The Last Days - Me262A-1a
USA - P47 Fighter Bomber

May 1944 - Preparing the Invasion
June 1944 - Operation Overlord
September 1944 - Bombing Berlin
November 1944 - Bombing Hungary
December 1944 - The Battle of the Bulge
Februay 1945 - The Last Days
USA - P51 Fighter Bomber

May 1944 - Preparing the Invasion
June 1944 - Operation Overlord
September 1944 - Bombing Berlin
November 1944 - Bombing Hungary
December 1944 - The Battle of the Bulge
Februay 1945 - The Last Days


Stand Alone Missions
Along with the dynamic campaigns, there are a number of stand alone missions included for single player, coop servers and dogfight servers.

Coop - Ardennes, Normandy and Pacific

Dogfight - Ardennes, Normandy, Pacific Early War and Pacific Late War

Single Player - Germany - Operation Bodenplatte

Single Player - UK - Hurricane Night Fighter Intruder. Designed by Ian Boys, the custom skin appears to be missing.

Single Player - USA - Ardennes Dogfight

What's in it for the Online Player?
Battle over Europe includes a new campaign generator called NGEN which uses a different set of algorithms to DGEN which is designed to generate balanced missions for both sides with each side getting their own objectives and planes split into two groups. The first group has the task of completing their sides objectives and the second group is tasked with preventing the enemy from completing theirs. There are three different types of flight for each side, Escort, Strike and Patrol.

The Strike flight is assigned a ground attack role and can consist of any plane capable of carrying out this role from the mightly B17 to strafing with the FW190.

The Escort flight is usually tasked with escorting the Strike group but sometimes can be assigned escort to the Patrol group. On occasions the escort group is not present and the other groups have to complete their tasks unaided.

Finally the Patrol group will be assigned to an area where the opposing Strike force is likely to attack and is tasked with defeating them. To make things a bit more interesting, sometimes the patrol group does not get created making the life of the opposition strike force a little easier.

There are two types of NGEN campaign, historical or fictional. In the historical campaign the front line moves from day to day exactly as it did in real life, whilst in the fictional campaign the placing of the front line is dependent on the results of previous missions. The missions themselves are divided into standard or hosts choice. Standard missions take less input from the host and are usually fairly balanced, whilst host choice missions give the host more flexibility in designing the balance of the missions and can be almost considered a Quick Mission Builder for cooperative games. This could lead to a massive expansion of cooperative online gaming.


Skins
Also included within the installation are a whole host of skins for both flyable and AI planes

Skins USAAF: P-47D-10 "razorback": 8th AF generic, ace skin - Bud Mahurin 56th FG, 78th FG, ace skin - 78th FG "Nice Kitty" P-47D-22 "razorback": 78th FG Olive Drab, 78th FG bare metal, ace skin - 78th FG "MX G", RAF generic, RAF Invasion Stripes, ace skin - RAF 73rd OTU "White 18" P-47D-27 "bubble canopy": 56th FG D-Day, 56th FG Ardennes, 61st FS 56th FG, ace skin - Francis Gabreski 61st FS 56th FG, ace skin - Hub Zemke 56th FG, ace skin - Dave Schilling 56th FG, 78th FG D-Day, 78th FG bare metal, ace skin - 78th FG Scholz, 354th FG, ace skin - 354th FG "AJ D" P-51D-5: 4th FG, 78th FG, 339th FG, 352nd FG, 353rd FG early, 353rd FT late, 357th FG, 361st FG Olive Drab, 361st FG Olive Drab bare metal, 364th FG, RAF B-17G: 94th BG, 303rd BG, 306th BG, 351st BG, 379th BG, 381st BG, 385th BG, 398th BG, 401st BG, 452nd BG, 457th BG, 487th BG

Skins Luftwaffe: Bf-109G-6: III/JG1, ace skin - III/JG1 "White 5", JG26, ace skin - Mietusch III/JG26 "Black 22", JG3, ace skin - Fischer II/JG3 "Black 1" Bf-109G-10: I/JG3 Ardennes, ace skin - Seidl I/JG3 "Black 8" Bf-109G-14: JG53 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - Michel JG53 "Blue 2" Bf-109K-4: JG7 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - JG7 "White 1" FW-190A-8: JG1, ace skin - II/JG1 "Yellow 6", II/JG2, ace skin - Pips Priller II/JG26 "Black 13", II/JG26 D-Day FW-190D-9: JG54 Operation Bodenplatte, ace skin - JG54 "Yellow 2" Me-262A-2: KG51 Ardennes, ace skin - KG51 "White B"


The Future
Starshoy has already indicated that there are further developments in the works for Battle over Europe to support the soon to be released Aces Expansion from UBI. These will include a Bf110 Interceptor Career, a short Me163 Career, a P-38 Ground Attack career and a Stuka D5 Night Bomber career. At the time of writing, how these updates will be provided is not yet clear, but Just Flight have a good support reputation and with the close cooperation between the authors and 1C Maddox the future for Battle over Europe is bright.

Conclusion
The normal reaction to a product like this is "I can write my own missions" and "I can do my own skins or download them for free". This may be true, yet the quality of the dynamic campaign generator for the offline player and the multitude of possibilities the dynamic online campaign generator provides, makes, in my mind, this a product that is well worth the purchase price and a worthy installation on your computer.

I feel that with the release of the Aces Expansion and any patches Starshoy brings out, Battle Over Europe will really come into its own and become a must have product.

Resources
Just Flight Web Site, Ordering and Support Forums

Virtual Eastern Front Online War

UBI Home Page

Huxley_S
03-01-2004, 04:32 PM
After having played with it for a few days my opinion is this:

The dynamic campaigns are far superior to any that shipped with Forgotten Battles. The structure, the context and the number of planes in the air at any one time surpass the original by a large margin.

If you have a low-spec machine then this will probably run like a dog on your computer, but for the higher-spec player there is a lot to enjoy.

The B17 bomber is very much the heart of this expansion, as is the Bf109-G6 and the P51 series. If you are fans of any of these planes then this expansion is for you.

It is a great prospect for extra patches to become available post-AEP. I guess these will be free patches... I hope so.

In the meantime, there are experiences to be had with BoE that you can't get from FB unless you are an expert campaign builder with a lot of time on your hands.

I'd say that these campaigns don't have the narrative imperitive of Extreme_one's RAF campaign but they are a different animal, less scripted but more dynamic. I prefer the more scripted approach myself, but a great dynamic campaign can be almost as good.

I'm really happy I bought it. If you like the off-line part of FB, you should buy it too.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2004, 04:37 PM
OK, you convinced me. Where's the best place online to order it? I LOATHE buying things online...tools of the Devil...As far as I know it's impossible to get it anywhere else though...so what's my best bet?

*****************************
Did anyone prophesize these people? Only Travis. Come in Travis! ~ Clash

Bull_Pup
03-01-2004, 04:56 PM
Well said Huxley.

Im loving BoE. Especialy with the conf.ini campaign intensity tweaks,

AirIntensity=High
GroundIntensity=High

Ive also turned off subtitles, the hud, and put aircraft icons on a joystick toggle. Ive been trying only use icons when absolutely dissoriented. These changes alone added much to the immersion factor.

One interesting twist, the online dynamic campaigns can be played in single player for a different experience. This is mentioned in more detail in the manual. (pg 14 I think, manual's not here with me now.)

as far as I know Justflight.com is the only place to get boe online. For creating a new account they give you bonus points worth approx $7.00 off. It ended up costing me $22.00 with free shipping, and it took 4 day's to arrive. (uk to usa)

SeaFireLIV
03-01-2004, 05:02 PM
Why don`t they just release it in the shops? I`d have it by now. I don`t buy online generally... I just don`t trust it.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg

tttiger
03-01-2004, 05:06 PM
Gunny,

With all due respect:

First, why not just put in a link rather than such a lengthy cut & paste? My computer skills are kinda limited but I do know how to click on a link http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Second, and more important: This isn't a real review (even if it says it is). It comes from Netwings in which the folks who designed BOE are major players. It doesn't say whether it's good or bad. It's an advertisement. Period.

Having said that, I've ordered BOE and will give it a try. But my expectations are not high.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprisedhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

GunnyBunny001
03-01-2004, 05:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Gunny,

With all due respect:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then u can write a 'neutral' review for us http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Until someone else posts a neutral review, this is the best we have.

Zorro3
03-01-2004, 05:31 PM
it's available at Game UK.
http://shop.game.net/ViewProduct.aspx?cat=10368&mid=323133
a bit pricey eh!

AND SO IT CAME TO PASS.

Huxley_S
03-01-2004, 05:34 PM
I'm neural... I'm just some random punter... who likes a bit of shenanigans with the 'ol FB. Likesay.

And I say.. like the man from Del Monte... erm... "yes!"

Huxley_S
03-01-2004, 05:35 PM
"neutral" not "neural"... not had the implants like http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Bull_Pup
03-01-2004, 06:43 PM
The Simhq.com interview is a pretty comprehensive look at BoE.

GunnyBunny001
03-01-2004, 07:01 PM
http://www.simhq.com/_air/PDF/air_110print.pdf

Cess_Wizard
03-01-2004, 07:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Second, and more important: This isn't a real review (even if it says it is). It comes from Netwings in which the folks who designed BOE are major players. It doesn't say whether it's good or bad. It's an advertisement. Period.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like heck it is - I host the VEF forums for Starshoy as a favour to the community. I exchange emails with him about once every six months. Luthier has not impact on Netwings at all

bird_brain
03-01-2004, 07:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
In the meantime, there are experiences to be had with BoE that you can't get from FB unless you are an expert campaign builder with a lot of time on your hands.
I'd say that these campaigns don't have the narrative imperitive of Extreme_one's RAF campaign but they are a different animal, less scripted but more dynamic. I prefer the more scripted approach myself, but a great dynamic campaign can be almost as good.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should check the link in my sig in that case.

I have already ordered it because it is the only way to get the Western Front DGen. It should arrivve in the next day or two.
After checking numerous posts from Starshoy & others, it is becoming clear that in return for making the new maps, rights to the western front have been sold to Russian Rocket Games.
Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned.
I am currently playing DCG substituting for DGen in "dynamic" campaign mode and it works great. I will post an opinion after playing the lisenced version.
Updates have been stated as coming out as patches after "Aces" is distributed.

http://hstrial-jyarbrough.homestead.com/hhsig2.jpg
**** The Hell Hawks Campaign is available @ ****
http://hstrial-jyarbrough.homestead.com/Files.html

Starshoy
03-01-2004, 07:52 PM
Netwings host some il2center discussions, including VEF forum since times when il2center started experiencing difficulties. It is very nice from their part. People's contribution to VEF allows us to keep it free. But other than this service to community we are not associated in any way, and indeed do not communicate all that often - regretfully.

We did not even send any beta or review copies of BoE to anybody at Netwings - JF did. I should have http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but they never asked and I somehow missed it.

I am totally sure that if Neil wouldn't like BoE, you'd know it. Questioning reviewer's integrity this way speaks a lot about accuser's own agenda.

chunkylovepony
03-01-2004, 07:59 PM
Ok stupid question time. Is this an actual expansion pack for the game or a series of user made missions? If this is an expansion pack, I have to tell you that I had no idea that these things were available. Can someone please set me straight here on what exactly this product is please?

mortoma
03-01-2004, 08:04 PM
Yea, they should sell it in shops. I won't buy it otherwise. Had my credit cards numbers ripped off too many times from buying online and over the phone too.

GunnyBunny001
03-01-2004, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Yea, they should sell it in shops. I won't buy it otherwise. Had my credit cards numbers ripped off too many times from buying online and over the phone too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your more likely to get credit card numbers stolen buying in person, on a secure server at a reputable online retailer is preferred.

Vamandrac_Steam
03-01-2004, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_Pup:
Well said Huxley.

Im loving BoE. Especialy with the conf.ini campaign intensity tweaks,

AirIntensity=High
GroundIntensity=High
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What .ini file do you find these settings at?

http://darkstar.teamhifi.org/files/Sig3.jpg
Futter für das Fatherland

tttiger
03-01-2004, 10:04 PM
Starshoy, if I am mistaken in describing you as a member of the Netwings community, you have my apologies.

This is not however a review. It's just a lengthy product description. Nothing wrong with that but I can't see a see a single critical comment (positive or negative) in it. That's hardly what a review is supposed to be about.

If you think I have an agenda, I don't. I hope this is a good product. I've already spent my money on it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think you know my opinion of your work dates back to when I was a beta tester for the FB campaigns, which you wrote. I thought then (and still do) they were linear and boring and not dynamic as advertised. I strongly suggested you take a look at Falcon 4.0's excellent campaigns to see what coordinated attacks (and defenses) can be like. You made it clear you had no interest in hearing those comments or in changing anything. I kept wondering why the heck you wanted Beta testers if you didn't listen to them. As it turned out, I was vindicated. Every review of FB pointed to the campaigns (YOUR camapaigns) as a very weak link in an otherwise very strong sim.

Further, I think some of your very snarky and public comments about Paul and DCG were unwarranted. To be sure, DCG is a tad buggy and I wish Paul would quit issuing new versions with added capabilities and stop to fix the problems the old versions have. But he turns out an excellent product, far better than DGen, and your demeaning, jealous attitude toward him in the forums has been, IMHO, childish.

Finally, when I compare your work with coop missions and campaigns Hangar and Metlushko and Bury and many others (most recently Extreme One and Poymando) have hand-written, your computer-generated stuff comes off second best. And they have given their work to the community for free.

My only agenda is to have good missions to fly. If you've produced them, I'll thank you. And, since I've paid for them, I hope you have.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Mon March 01 2004 at 09:53 PM.]

BaldieJr
03-01-2004, 10:11 PM
I'm just curious about one thing...

Can I put ngen on a dedicated server and use fbd to handle it (fbd has hooks to call an external mission generator)?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 04:50 AM
Further, I think some of your very snarky and public comments about Paul and DCG were unwarranted. To be sure, DCG is a tad buggy and I wish Paul would quit issuing new versions with added capabilities and stop to fix the problems the old versions have. But he turns out an excellent product, far better than DGen, and your demeaning, jealous attitude toward him in the forums has been, IMHO, childish.

I never comment on Paul and DCG, it is yet another libel. I know better than anybody else difference between commercial product and something you make as a hobby. In times before FB, when Paul was making DCG and I IL2Gen you could compare them alright. I was also making new versions with new features weekly - and did not bother too much about bugs, accessibility, localisations, etc. Now I release updates 3-4 times a year and DGen is as bug free as any commercial product. I am pretty sure, that if Paul would release DCG commercially, the same would be true about his product.

Anyway, I expect either quotes, showing where I told anything bad about Paul, or your apologies. I do believe that BoE is seriously better than any alternative, but it is not a wonder, considering efforts and time we spent on
it.

SeaFireLIV
03-02-2004, 05:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

Your more likely to get credit card numbers stolen buying in person, on a secure server at a reputable online retailer is preferred.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THis is rubbish, Gunny. You mean to say you`d rather have your numbers sent away over the `secure` net where it`s possible for anyone to intercept them and you won`t have a clue how it`s happened? Go ahead then.

I`d rather do it in person where I know what`s happening and can deal with any situation there and then! Until then BOE stays on mail order till I find it in the shops.

Also, that may be a review, but it is NOT an unbiased review. All good reviews should have the good and bad points. Any review that says only good things are suspect. And anyone here knows I`m not anti FB or it`s products, I`m a great supporter, but I like reviews that show all sides.

However I will try Game and see if they have it in there. Thanx, Zorro3.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg

Huxley_S
03-02-2004, 05:19 AM
Bad points...?

The fact that Britain still seems to be written out of WWII? Clearly we were just sitting around drinking tea and eating scones while the USAAF did all the work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Seafire why are you scared of online ordering? If you ring your credit card company they will almost certainly tell you that you are not liable for any fraudulent use of your credit card, whether online or not. Online ordering is perfectly safe... I make ecommerce web sites for a living and use them all the time and I've never had any bad experiences.

SeaFireLIV
03-02-2004, 05:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Bad points...?

The fact that Britain still seems to be written out of WWII? Clearly we were just sitting around drinking tea and eating scones while the USAAF did all the work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Seafire why are you scared of online ordering? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Britain has been quite badly shortchanged in FB. can`t even get the Ordnance for the later version Hurricanes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I`ved lived with it cos the Russian angle has taken my interest. But Yea, maybe they do think we just had tea and scones througout the war after all! They must be re-educated.

As for the credit card business. I had a bad situation a few years back. I guess i`m a bit paranoid now.... I`ve heard `guarantees from financial companies before... Not always true.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I'm just curious about one thing...

Can I put ngen on a dedicated server and use fbd to handle it (fbd has hooks to call an external mission generator)?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. NGen campaign is a form of coop (with some new features, like mission ending conditions). Dedicated server does not support coop - for a lot of reasons, the most obvious is that coop has strict beginning and end, you cannot join coop at random time.

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-02-2004, 05:54 AM
It seems I was the first loud mouthed customer to post comments on BoE on the net on the day it was released. You can find the, now dead, thread on SimHQ here,

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=007238#000005

After playing BoE more my overall opinion is that it's definitely worth buying. There are some rough edges but JustFlight are already attending to some of those (for instance, they have now posted on their web site the night skins that were missing from the initial release). Starshoy has been doing a great job in keeping note of people's comments and has been providing information on how he will be patching it in the near future. Another strength of the product will be the extra careers being made available for FREE when AEP is released.

BoE has excellent airstrips layed out with equipment and parked planes. Although those damn searchlights at the ends of the runway have killed me twice now! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif Starshoy, is it realistic to put big pieces of equipment at the beginning and end of runways?? I would have thought that was against regulations! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The B-17 formations are great (if you can get to them in time). The briefings are definitely better than FB (although loaded with grammatical and typographical errors). The missions can be gravy runs or complete murder.

The worst mission so far for me has been a P-47 bomber escort. You start on the ground and even with full throttle, radiator shut, and the most efficient climb speed (150 mph), it is impossible to reach them before the Germans do. If you follow the flightpath, you are jumped from a great hight by six expert 109s and your whole flight lasts only a few seconds to minutes. I spent an entire evening trying to get through this mission and in the end I had to sit on the runway and let the bombers fight it out for themselves http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif so I could progress. The mission debrief is pretty humiliating http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif True, part of this poor preformance is my own bad flying and combat skills but I still feel BoE can be quite unbalanced at times. Never the less, it does supply you with a lot of campaigns and the online DCG facility.

In the UK, buy it cheap (14.99) from www.gameplay.co.uk (http://www.gameplay.co.uk)

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Extreme_One
03-02-2004, 07:06 AM
RE The Brit's being left out of FB...

That situation may not remain for long, what with the advent of more British planes and...

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 08:09 AM
There were no suitable for 1944 campaign British planes pre-AEP.

AntEater is trying to organise now people to make a free unofficial addon with UK campaign, requiring both AEP and BoE. If he succeeds and all work on texts, voices, graphics will be done, I plan to help him with the generator part.

SeaFireLIV
03-02-2004, 08:24 AM
Thankyou, Starshoy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Huxley_S
03-02-2004, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>AntEater is trying to organise now people to make a free unofficial addon with UK campaign, requiring both AEP and BoE. If he succeeds and all work on texts, voices, graphics will be done, I plan to help him with the generator part.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Splendid! Look forward to it.

btw I'd love to see a mission that includes both British and American planes... surely there must be some scope for that?

jagdmailer
03-02-2004, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Starshoy:
There were no suitable for 1944 campaign British planes pre-AEP.

AntEater is trying to organise now people to make a free unofficial addon with UK campaign, requiring both AEP and BoE. If he succeeds and all work on texts, voices, graphics will be done, I plan to help him with the generator part.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Starshoy,

I just want "my" Bf 110G-2 1943-1944 day Bomber-interceptor dynamic campaings....(and the Ju 87D-5 night bomber/interceptor too!).....my BoE copy should be here today or tomorrow (ordered online from Netwings Feb 21st) and I have pre-ordered AEP from EB and should get my copy this coming Friday. Too bad we are not getting a flyable earlier Bf 110 such as the C-4 or C-4/B or the Bf 110E-1/N/U4.

British campaign should be fun too if it does come, as long as I can fly my trusty 109.

In all seriousness, I am looking forward to BoE and I know that the new planes dynamic careers updates will be released soon after AEP will be released.

Regards,

Jagd

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 09:26 AM
Of course they will be released - soon after AEP release. They are done - but I think it will takes some time from JF to test them (they will need AEP for that) and make an installer.

British campaign is a little bit more distant project and I cannot offer any schedule for it, and even guarantee it - work on texts, voices and graphics does not depend on me, but programming part should not be that difficult.

Besides, revealing a huge secret http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif - Brits will be a part of our next project with Luthier, so I have all the names, places of birth, etc. already.

jamesdietz
03-02-2004, 10:36 AM
Two questions - is this add-on worth the purchase with the Aces add-on due out any moment & if so where can this add-on be purchased or ordered from?

BaldieJr
03-02-2004, 10:41 AM
Splitting content between two publishers is a total rip-off.

Good luck in the future.. you're going to need it.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
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Maciej_k
03-02-2004, 11:00 AM
Do you know if will it be avaliable in Germany through amazon.de?I can't go to Germany,only my friend will go there in April.I'd live to have it...And shoot some B17s down...

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jamesdietz:
Two questions - is this add-on worth the purchase with the Aces add-on due out any moment & if so where can this add-on be purchased or ordered from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I obviously cannot answer the first question. I have yet to see one person who wrote it is not worth the purchase, but then again some did not receive it yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

AEP is a different thing, it adds a lot of interesting planes and campaigns for the Eastern Front. BoE adds Western Front and will be updated after AEP release to support new planes. Both will support online campaign, but for different fronts.

It can be purchased online from JustFlight site - and in stores in Europe. It should be available in North American stores some time in March I was told.

GunnyBunny001
03-02-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Starshoy:
I do believe that BoE is seriously better than any alternative, but it is not a wonder, considering efforts and time we spent on
it.

Hello,

Thank you for posting and giving your input.

Why do you feel your BOE product is better than the upcoming ACE expansion product ?

Here is the spot light for you :)

Starshoy
03-02-2004, 03:08 PM
&gt;Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

&gt;Why do you feel your BOE product is better &gt;than the upcoming ACE expansion product ?

&gt;Here is the spot light for you :)

Because I worked on both and can compare? :)))

Seriously, they do not overlap at all. As I wrote already, AEP gives you new planes and campaigns for East Front. BoE uses these planes in the Western front. They are not alternatives, they complement each other.

jagdmailer
03-02-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Starshoy:
&gt;Originally posted by GunnyBunny001:

&gt;Why do you feel your BOE product is better &gt;than the upcoming ACE expansion product ?

&gt;Here is the spot light for you :)

Because I worked on both and can compare? :)))

Seriously, they do not overlap at all. As I wrote already, AEP gives you new planes and campaigns for East Front. BoE uses these planes in the Western front. They are not alternatives, they complement each other.

Starshoy,

I just recieved BoE about 2 hours ago. Installed in a breeze. I have started a May 1944 Luftwaffe fighter campaign on Bf 109G-6 "early". I have shot down 3 X P-51Ds and 1 X P-47 so far in 2 missions. Impressive so far. However, in the third mission, I must prevent a low level attack from 6 B-17Gs over my base, and our schwarm has shot down the 6 B-17's with one loss on our side, but I cannot get the "mission complete" screen. Any ideas ??

I would definately recommend buying this add-on even from an early outlook, and as like Starshoy said, this is late Western European theatre. Nothing like Eastern Theatre.

Cheers,

Jagd

Huxley_S
03-02-2004, 03:33 PM
Some of the missions require you to land on friendly territory before you get the Mission Complete message.

jamesdietz
03-02-2004, 03:51 PM
Say no more - my order is in the mail( er...email that is!)I don't want to miss any part of this game!

jagdmailer
03-02-2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Some of the missions require you to land on friendly territory before you get the Mission Complete message.

Got it. This particular mission required a little more time to end for some reason. Have been playing it a little more. It's easily worth the money. I really enjoy dispatching those P-51s and P-47s in droves over the Normandy coast. Wish I had a G-6 late or G-6/AS at this point but the G-6 still give me plenty. Mk108 + MG151/20 pods Rustsatze make quick work of those B-17s too.

JagdMailer
Omega Squad

jamesdietz
03-10-2004, 01:14 PM
Alas - nothing for Spitfires????

Valcor01
03-11-2004, 08:57 AM
I'm sold. I'll have to try and track this down in a store. Anyone in US seen this in stores yet?

Hawggy
04-02-2004, 07:38 PM
WHERE DO YOU BUY THIS THING IN THE STATES? SCREW ORDERING, ME = NO CREDIT CARD, and the brits don't want money orders....

"This is Chess, this ain't CHECKERS!!"

heywooood
04-02-2004, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Bad points...?

The fact that Britain still seems to be written out of WWII? Clearly we were just sitting around drinking tea and eating scones while the USAAF did all the work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Seafire why are you scared of online ordering? If you ring your credit card company they will almost certainly tell you that you are not liable for any fraudulent use of your credit card, whether online or not. Online ordering is perfectly safe... I make ecommerce web sites for a living and use them all the time and I've never had any bad experiences.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hux - your getting full dedication of BoB - with whole new game engine - higher graphic standard etc.. settle down ? its going to be a really freakishly delicious thang.

Bearcat99
04-02-2004, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:
After playing BoE more my overall opinion is that it's definitely worth buying. There are some rough edges but JustFlight are already attending to some of those (for instance, they have now posted on their web site the night skins that were missing from the initial release). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were some Night fighter skins in the P-47 folder believe it or not....for BF110s. I just moved them over. I think I posted about that when I first saw it.
My take on BoE? Worth every penny... For me the fact that I know the guys who are making bank on the sales of the product have been kicking out quality stuff for this community for years only makes buying for BoE seem like justice and payback. Western front campaign? Yeah... but we need some more maps for a bona fide WF campaign IMO. BoE is great though.
Then again I am extremely biased when it comes to this sim. I wont be buying CoE however.... for reasons I wont go into here.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

Teufel_Eldritch
04-02-2004, 10:33 PM
I would had it already if it had been released in the stores. SeaFireLIV is not the only person with issues regarding online security.

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
"For a world of happiness & equality is but a fantasy driven by men who envy the ruling class."

fi-bluedragon
04-03-2004, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StukaKing:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_Pup:
Well said Huxley.

Im loving BoE. Especialy with the conf.ini campaign intensity tweaks,

AirIntensity=High
GroundIntensity=High
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What .ini file do you find these settings at?

http://darkstar.teamhifi.org/files/Sig3.jpg
Futter für das Fatherland<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I have to ask the same question.

I bought BOE the other day and installed it over my AEP patched game, is it OK to do this. I haven't had any problems yet.