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View Full Version : Taking on Destroyers with deck guns?!? (Long read)



Dominicrigg
08-24-2005, 07:03 AM
I said this once before and i must say it again, i think i have a special edition of this game.

Just last night i looked through the single player missions and spotted the Attack on Narvik mission. "Interesting" I thought, "lets load this up!"

I was amazed to see a full scale battle going on between the invading Royal Fleet and some German destroyers and then when i had picked my mouth up off the ground i swung the scope round and took aim at the mission objective, the Beautiful aging Royal Soveriegn class battleship. Stacked to the gills with guns and steaming on to glory in Narvik. Firing on the Destroyers retreating into the fyord.

"Sir!" A Crewman prodded me, "are we going to fire?"

A voice in my head screamed "no dont do it! Surface, join them and take on the germans." but i blocked it out and got on with doing my job, "Its only a game! It doesnt count sinking the Brits." I muttered, the crewman did a double take and i began making a solution.

The 4 torps sped away, the clock ticked, and a miss. "YES!" I shouted, my crew looking worriedly at me.. "I mean ver****t!! We missed." I tried to put on a sad face, but couldnt stop grinning. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

"What about our destroyers" muttered one of the sailors.

"Now they are going to get a kicking" I laughed again getting strange looks. "I mean, dont worry, we will save them!"

Well i had done my new trick i have picked up since starting again, which was to not flood the tubes (im guessing thats why i missed though it could have been a bad solution helped by this fact) 4 torps, sailing onto the opposite beach http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i mean http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But all was not lost, i started to spin around to aim the rear torp, maybe i could slow her a bit, but no, a destroyer was bearing down on me as i could tell from the pings. With so little room to manouver I set full ahead and headed away from the fleet out towards sea. But soon i was being pummeled to death.

There was no escaping the enemy at this shallow depth (the water was 20 metres or so) and it was at this point i remembered the stories i had heard from all of you sea dogs. I remembered your brave stories of taking on 2 or 3 destroyers on the surface and winning easily. DEck guns blazing! All those stories of "ohh destroyers are easy, i can kill 4 with my uber deck gun!"

Only one here i thought, and at that moment "Blow all ballast!" one of my crew fainted and another laughed out loud. "Im serious!" i screamed, a mad look in my eyes. I didnt care! "Its only a single mission! It doesnt count" 2 of the crew ran off to the forward torp room to hide.

As the ship bounced to the surface i ran onto deck shouting to man the deck gun. And took aim myself swinging it around. Instantly we came under super accurate 4" deck gun fire from the destroyer. No matter i thought, spinning over and taking a shot!

Boom! 3-0 to the Royal navy. My crew flew overboard like ragdolls. Switching to damage control i was at 41% hull and my 3 brave/stupid crew had turned glowing red colour. I guessed they were dead, or secretly aliens (i always wondered that about hitler...)

"This is madness!!" screamed a crewman running past to plug a leak in that pipe which always leaks.

"This is madness!" I screamed, making a note to have the pipe removed once we got home. "DIVE!" Taking a few more hits we plummeted the few feet to the bottom and sat there for 30 minutes. Managing to survive a few depth charge runs and then our destroyer gave up, finally!

I headed out to sea and back for repairs. My crew looked to the heavens and gave thanks.

"Wait a minute, i can still get that Battleship!" I realised. "I mean its too late for the destroyers but we can get some respectability back!" "Spin her around we are going back in!"

With that we headed back into the fyord and met the battleships coming back out. I waited, got the shot set up and "FIRE!"

Then weeeeeeeeee, the doors began to open... "VER****T!!" I cried, again i had forgotten the doors.

The 4 torps took an agonizing minute to reach the target but 3 hit at the back of the Battleship. That had to slow her, or stop her! But no, she steamed onto the open sea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif A quick look with the cheatocam showed i had blown off one prop, and she had 3 left... **** ****.

Moving away i avoided the retaliation from the escort then sat crying, the embarasment. Well, when they had gone i spotted some consolation, one destroyer was stuck on the beach (haha the wallies) another was having engine probs and was stopped in the middle of the fyord. A torpedo got them going agian, but vertically instead of horisontally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif



Then it was off home to tell you all, you do talk some rubbish about deck guns... You nearly got me killed!

Just look what YOu did to my sub...

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/3269/wrecked2dc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dominicrigg
08-24-2005, 07:03 AM
I said this once before and i must say it again, i think i have a special edition of this game.

Just last night i looked through the single player missions and spotted the Attack on Narvik mission. "Interesting" I thought, "lets load this up!"

I was amazed to see a full scale battle going on between the invading Royal Fleet and some German destroyers and then when i had picked my mouth up off the ground i swung the scope round and took aim at the mission objective, the Beautiful aging Royal Soveriegn class battleship. Stacked to the gills with guns and steaming on to glory in Narvik. Firing on the Destroyers retreating into the fyord.

"Sir!" A Crewman prodded me, "are we going to fire?"

A voice in my head screamed "no dont do it! Surface, join them and take on the germans." but i blocked it out and got on with doing my job, "Its only a game! It doesnt count sinking the Brits." I muttered, the crewman did a double take and i began making a solution.

The 4 torps sped away, the clock ticked, and a miss. "YES!" I shouted, my crew looking worriedly at me.. "I mean ver****t!! We missed." I tried to put on a sad face, but couldnt stop grinning. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

"What about our destroyers" muttered one of the sailors.

"Now they are going to get a kicking" I laughed again getting strange looks. "I mean, dont worry, we will save them!"

Well i had done my new trick i have picked up since starting again, which was to not flood the tubes (im guessing thats why i missed though it could have been a bad solution helped by this fact) 4 torps, sailing onto the opposite beach http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i mean http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But all was not lost, i started to spin around to aim the rear torp, maybe i could slow her a bit, but no, a destroyer was bearing down on me as i could tell from the pings. With so little room to manouver I set full ahead and headed away from the fleet out towards sea. But soon i was being pummeled to death.

There was no escaping the enemy at this shallow depth (the water was 20 metres or so) and it was at this point i remembered the stories i had heard from all of you sea dogs. I remembered your brave stories of taking on 2 or 3 destroyers on the surface and winning easily. DEck guns blazing! All those stories of "ohh destroyers are easy, i can kill 4 with my uber deck gun!"

Only one here i thought, and at that moment "Blow all ballast!" one of my crew fainted and another laughed out loud. "Im serious!" i screamed, a mad look in my eyes. I didnt care! "Its only a single mission! It doesnt count" 2 of the crew ran off to the forward torp room to hide.

As the ship bounced to the surface i ran onto deck shouting to man the deck gun. And took aim myself swinging it around. Instantly we came under super accurate 4" deck gun fire from the destroyer. No matter i thought, spinning over and taking a shot!

Boom! 3-0 to the Royal navy. My crew flew overboard like ragdolls. Switching to damage control i was at 41% hull and my 3 brave/stupid crew had turned glowing red colour. I guessed they were dead, or secretly aliens (i always wondered that about hitler...)

"This is madness!!" screamed a crewman running past to plug a leak in that pipe which always leaks.

"This is madness!" I screamed, making a note to have the pipe removed once we got home. "DIVE!" Taking a few more hits we plummeted the few feet to the bottom and sat there for 30 minutes. Managing to survive a few depth charge runs and then our destroyer gave up, finally!

I headed out to sea and back for repairs. My crew looked to the heavens and gave thanks.

"Wait a minute, i can still get that Battleship!" I realised. "I mean its too late for the destroyers but we can get some respectability back!" "Spin her around we are going back in!"

With that we headed back into the fyord and met the battleships coming back out. I waited, got the shot set up and "FIRE!"

Then weeeeeeeeee, the doors began to open... "VER****T!!" I cried, again i had forgotten the doors.

The 4 torps took an agonizing minute to reach the target but 3 hit at the back of the Battleship. That had to slow her, or stop her! But no, she steamed onto the open sea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif A quick look with the cheatocam showed i had blown off one prop, and she had 3 left... **** ****.

Moving away i avoided the retaliation from the escort then sat crying, the embarasment. Well, when they had gone i spotted some consolation, one destroyer was stuck on the beach (haha the wallies) another was having engine probs and was stopped in the middle of the fyord. A torpedo got them going agian, but vertically instead of horisontally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif



Then it was off home to tell you all, you do talk some rubbish about deck guns... You nearly got me killed!

Just look what YOu did to my sub...

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/3269/wrecked2dc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

GunFury
08-24-2005, 08:39 AM
brillant.

Spent476
08-24-2005, 10:17 AM
well you need good gun crew to use the deck gun well... 3 seamen dont cut it. you need a good watch officer and at least a specialized gunner to pull off the deck gun very well.

Blabaer
08-24-2005, 10:30 AM
No worries half a tub o Turtle Wax will get her shining again....allthough you might have to recalibrate the deckgun sight say 25 degrees of to the side of the desired target....=)

stljeffbb
08-24-2005, 10:35 AM
Perfect!

-Jeff

Dominicrigg
08-25-2005, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blabaer:
No worries half a tub o Turtle Wax will get her shining again....allthough you might have to recalibrate the deckgun sight say 25 degrees of to the side of the desired target....=) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol i will tell that to the angry repair guys when i get back. The gun has a real kink in it also lol. 25 degrees to the side and 40 degrees high i think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

the_rydster
08-25-2005, 01:32 PM
It took me about 10 attempt on that mission to get the Warspite sunk. Although when I did get it, it only took one hit to nail it (although it was an especially sweet magneticaly detonated one just under the keel). I subsequently rammed home 3 more torps into the the now dead in the water pride of the Royal Navy and then it kind of capcised.

Actually I did accidentally surface on one attempt and it was litterally a few seconds before I was blown to pieces.

I was wondering if you could get only a few meteres away from the warspite and sail parallel to it. At this position it would (hopefully) not be able to depress its guns and you could attack with the deck gun. Would be fun to try!

Dominicrigg
08-25-2005, 03:15 PM
lol yeah its possible, would be interesting to try but i dont think you would get that close with the destroyer escort.

I did a similar thing to you in my first ever online game. Got it all organised and was saying to everyone "good luck everybody!" for some reason after good luck i went out of chat mode and the "e" of everybody made me emergency surface...

I spent the whole game dodging all the escorts while everyone else had fun sinking stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif lolz

walterlzw
08-26-2005, 05:44 AM
Is it me or does your deck gun look a bit... flabby?

Dominicrigg
08-26-2005, 05:57 AM
Its got a downwards slope on it but flabby? Not that i could see http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

walterlzw
08-26-2005, 06:03 AM
Just pulling your leg, Dominicrigg. Your story had me laughing like crazy at the screen. Thanks!

fizilbert
08-26-2005, 06:21 AM
Dont pick on him because he has a hard time getting his deck gun up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dominicrigg
08-26-2005, 06:42 AM
lol i get ya http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif im just not on the same level as you guys... (in the gutter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif)

Thanks, glad you liked it. I just got moved to my type 7 in my latest campaign so no doubt will have more stories soon.

Kaleun1961
08-26-2005, 09:03 PM
Has anybody tried using the deck gun on destroyers\escorts while using the Real U-Boat mod? I wouldn't want to try engaging a destroyer while only getting off one round every minute or so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

the_rydster
08-27-2005, 02:53 AM
You can go toe to toe with a Corvette if you make your shots count no problem. But a destroyer is in a different league.

Dominicrigg
08-27-2005, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Has anybody tried using the deck gun on destroyers\escorts while using the Real U-Boat mod? I wouldn't want to try engaging a destroyer while only getting off one round every minute or so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol i dont think they would have even bothered ever mounting a gun if it fired at that rate.

Pr0metheus 1962
08-27-2005, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Has anybody tried using the deck gun on destroyers\escorts while using the Real U-Boat mod? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. It's a very fast way to commit suicide, which is as it should be. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
08-27-2005, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
lol i dont think they would have even bothered ever mounting a gun if it fired at that rate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It did fire at that rate. The first 20 or so shells (in the ready ammo container) could be fired at a rate of about 1 shell every 15 seconds or so. After that the ROF would drop to over 1 minute per shell as the crew hoisted shells from the magazine.

walterlzw
08-27-2005, 11:24 AM
I don't know. I have read the novel Enemy Below by a D.A. Rayner who served on a RN destroyer. In the author's note he wrote "...while if she (the U-boat) were forced to the surface, and then decide to carry on the action by gunfire, the target she presented would be infinitely smaller and less susceptible to damage by this weapon than that of the surface craft."

By the way the movie of the same name was adpted from the novel but changed it to a USN destroyer.

Dominicrigg
08-27-2005, 12:49 PM
Yes its a very hard target. Infact destroyers are too accurate at range usually. I have been hit from 6000 metres away lol. I wouldnt think they would have a chance to hit you at that range, as they are basically aiming for the tower, that is the only part which shows any profile.

If you play multiplayer and try to fire deck gun at another player manually you can see how hard it is. Some destroyers are dead eyes!

----**----**----**----**----**

@ Beeryus they could fire a round every 5 seconds or less. While ammo is bieng used from teh ready locker more would be brought down. 20 rounds x 5 seconds = 2 mins. In 2 mins i could bring down 10 or more rounds on my own, never mind a crew working as a team, so firing rate would not noticably slow for a few minutes if at all.

But I dont want to have an argument about it, the evidence is in video at the sub site and in weapons timings for drills.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In addition the new Type VIIc design started arriving in large numbers in 1940. The VII was much more powerful than the Type II it replaced, including both a rapid-fire 88mm deck gun and four forward torpedo tubes. It also was much larger than the Type II, and could spend long times at sea, well away from land. Earlier VIIa and VIIb's had already reached service in small numbers, but the c was put into full production and eventually 585 of them would be delivered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rapid fire 88 deck gun! Not slower then a medieval trebouchet deck gun lol.

Uboat website (http://www.u47.org/english/u47_boa.asp?part=3)


Some fire rates of different caliber Royal navy manually loaded guns, of much larger calliber then uboats and also being in 2 parts shell and charge in most cases (making them slower to load) Also in cramped quarters in most cases, where the Uboat 88 was designed to allow crew easy access to load while being handled from either side.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/MCGWW2.html

I cant be bothered to find the fire rates from the drills, but they are somewhere... Not got time now to search and dont see the point either. As long as it feels more real to you guys thats all that matters.

Pr0metheus 1962
08-27-2005, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
@ Beeryus they could fire a round every 5 seconds or less... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see how. On a Type VII the ready ammo locker was located 12 feet away from the breech. It was also below deck level, so you'd have to bend over and pull a shell out from 2 or 3 feet below your feet. I defy any crew to get a 50+lb shell out of a hole in the deck, then run it across 12 feet of decking, hand it to the loader, have the loader load it, then wait for the boat to pitch and/or roll to the aim point, and fire, all in under 5 seconds. I seriously doubt it could be done in 10 seconds.

Sure, if you're not aiming at anything, and if you have shells sitting right by the gun (as you would in a quick-firing drill), you might be able to load and fire in 5 seconds, but if you add in the real world restrictions there is just no way.

Dominicrigg
08-27-2005, 03:46 PM
If only i could find that footage i deleted from my computer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif im pretty certain the shells were not 3 feet down. Like 90% certain, i would bet my uncle on it! (caus he is a tosser)

As i said it doesnt matter, you win...

Kaleun1961
08-27-2005, 10:43 PM
See my thread So-called Unescorted Convoy to see what happened to me while engaging a C3 with the deck gun. I'm using the RUB 1.43 firing rates, so it was taking an uncomfortably long time. Though I'm tempted to change the deck gun rate to something quicker, I like the fact that my gunnery actions are not arcade shootem ups.

the_rydster
08-28-2005, 03:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't know. I have read the novel Enemy Below by a D.A. Rayner who served on a RN destroyer. In the author's note he wrote "...while if she (the U-boat) were forced to the surface, and then decide to carry on the action by gunfire, the target she presented would be infinitely smaller and less susceptible to damage by this weapon than that of the surface craft." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can understand that a U boat would present a small target with a low profile to a surface ship but I do not understand how it is less susceptible to damage. The U boat has no armour and cannot tolerate damage to the pressure hull the way a surface ship can take damage to the hull and still stay afloat (especially warships with plenty of compartments and bulkheads).

A couple of other things; The U boat is a poor gun platform, it is more subject to pitching and rolling than a war ship. The deck gun crew have no protection (shield) like the crew on warships normally have.

I would be interested to see if there is any record of a U boat sinking a destroyer in WW2 using the deck gun. I would be very suprised, attacking a destroyer you would think would be total suicide.

Kaleun1961
08-28-2005, 11:32 AM
Right on, Rydster. People in this game who ram freighters to sink them are taking advantage of some highly questionable damage modelling in a game. I never heard of a U-boat ramming large freighters. As for taking on destroyers using deck guns, it is not only the destroyer's main guns you need to fear. They also fired whatever other armament they had at the boat and crew: machine guns, flak guns, even crew with handheld weapons. It's hard to man an unshielded gun on a pitching deck awash in water with lots of bullets whizzing by your head.

the_rydster
08-28-2005, 02:10 PM
Yeah that point about secondary weapons is spot on. Even small arms would do a good job of cleaning U boats deck.

Also if you surface you make yourself vulnerable to ramming by the warship, which is faster and more mobile than you.

I was actually rammed my a destroyer earlier today when it was conducting a depth charge attack. I was at periscope depth and it totally took out my conning tower. Unfortunatly for the destroyer it managed to rip its keel of and sank in about 30 seconds. I doubt this is realistic damage modelling to be honest. This point has been raised a few times, it would seem the U boat is a bit overmodelled therfore.

Caseck73
08-28-2005, 04:30 PM
The only story I've heard of a ship sinking to a sub was in early WWI, a destroyer rammed a sub, and ripped open most of it's bottom, and then sank.

They later strengthened the keels of the destroyers to avoid this problem.

That's from a WWI book on the 1st blockade of the UK, but I forget the name.