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DKoor
10-13-2009, 02:27 PM
What is it?
I've looked around and it seems to me that many still run 4.09b1m or old 4.08 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

Don't care for mods much as long as server doesn't force me to use them in which case I don't fly there.

I would like to give Fokker, SM.79, Avia or the new I-16's a spin online... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .
New MC.200's are cool too, cockpit is much better (vis) than those we had...

DKoor
10-13-2009, 02:27 PM
What is it?
I've looked around and it seems to me that many still run 4.09b1m or old 4.08 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

Don't care for mods much as long as server doesn't force me to use them in which case I don't fly there.

I would like to give Fokker, SM.79, Avia or the new I-16's a spin online... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .
New MC.200's are cool too, cockpit is much better (vis) than those we had...

The_Stealth_Owl
10-13-2009, 02:29 PM
409m_Dedicated

Unknown-Pilot
10-13-2009, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
409m_Dedicated </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.

Doesn't seem to be on all the time though. Is there a schedule posted somewhere online for it?

DKoor
10-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Thanks guys.

na85
10-13-2009, 07:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
409m_Dedicated </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are the settings?

RSS-Martin
10-13-2009, 10:10 PM
4.09m Servers that have full real settings are still very few. I donīt like those servers that use icons and wonder women view. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/093_smilie.gif

Unknown-Pilot
10-13-2009, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
4.09m Servers that have full real settings are still very few. I donīt like those servers that use icons and wonder women view. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/093_smilie.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the fact that we are limited to a 17 to 19" square, mono-scopic window onto the virtual world, and a VERY low resolution (vs eyesight), AND unnatural and limiting view control, AND with VERY odd fields of view... "full switch" is in fact quite UNrealistic. It actually makes it far more difficult than it would be in reality.

Unless or until we are sitting in a cockpit mockup in a full dome screen, or even jack our brains directly into the PC, if realism is the goal, then we MUST compensate for limitations in the hardware in order to give as 'realistic' an *experience* as possible.

The 2 means to do that are limited icons and padlock.

People who hare padlock are people who can't fly without hiding in hardware limitations and who enjoy lording it over those whom they have a hardware advantage over (ie, the track ir crowd vs the rest).

Those 2, with everything else on would be "full real".

That said, it's NICE to have the externals on so you can allieviate boredom on long flights. It's also NICE to have the so-called "gps" on so you can more easily track where you are in the air (and go to reported target locations or get home or just make it to friendly lines). And it's also NICE to have the speedbar on, but that's just a lazy luxury that I have to admit I have gotten perhaps a little too used to.

Now, given that this is all about air quake ANYway.... might as well have those niceties on, leaving the previously mentioned actual closest thing we can muster to "full real" for the co-ops.

And on that note, to the person who asked, those basically are the settings of that server - cockpit locked, externals on, short icons, PL, personal map location, Speed Bar all on - and all other difficulty options turned on. The perfect fun/dogfight settings actually. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RSS-Martin
10-13-2009, 11:14 PM
Guess it is a matter of taste, as a bomber pilot with the stabelizer on you can switch to the various positions in the bomber without needing external views. For seeing how fast I am flying, I have that on the instrument bord also a working compass. Icons I hate, as they are for lazy people, who donīt want to bother taking their time to recognise friendly or foe planes, also they spoil sneak attacks. I have been flying for years like this and I have no problems with that, also I do not use track IR, not neccesary in a bomber. Unfortunately the servers I prefer are taking their time in switching from 4.09bm1 to 4.09m

Gadje
10-14-2009, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
4.09m Servers that have full real settings are still very few. I donīt like those servers that use icons and wonder women view. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/093_smilie.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the fact that we are limited to a 17 to 19" square, mono-scopic window onto the virtual world, and a VERY low resolution (vs eyesight), AND unnatural and limiting view control, AND with VERY odd fields of view... "full switch" is in fact quite UNrealistic. It actually makes it far more difficult than it would be in reality.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, yeah same old excuses coming. If you prefer easier settings, fine but the 'unrealistic' excuse won't wash. Easier than reality eh? Try this-

Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k&feature=related)

And add in G-forces, fear of death and boiling/freezing cockpits and still tell me how hard FR is compared to RL. For you it maybe too hard but plenty virtual pilots have little problem with it and that has nothing to do with flight equipment either, (plenty still use hatswitches)- just practice and willingness to push yourself.

Sorry for staying OT OP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DKoor
10-14-2009, 03:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gadje:

Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k&feature=related)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sweet mother of... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

DKoor
10-14-2009, 03:55 AM
I watched the Spitfire pit vid by the same guy... really nice videos.
Seems to give a first hand neutral account on how it really was to fly and fight in those planes.

DIRTY-MAC
10-14-2009, 04:58 AM
Thrashing other people fot their settings is just childish. I suggest you mind your own business and respect others.

I_JG78_Max
10-14-2009, 05:25 AM
"sturmovik.II" and "101 missions" are two scripted servers runnig 4.09m. Both have full real settings except speedbar is activated on sturmovik.II. Missionbriefings are bilinguar on both servers iirc.

sturmovik.II often seems less populated than it actually is because some of its players prefer to join via IP than Hyperlobby. 101 missions however IS as empty as it looks, which is a shame, since it maps are really well done.

Both are run by members of the german community so if want to take a look hope for some participants, make sure you count in the time shift. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


III/JG27_Max

DKoor
10-14-2009, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_JG78_Max:
"sturmovik.II" and "101 missions" are two scripted servers runnig 4.09m. Both have full real settings except speedbar is activated on sturmovik.II. Missionbriefings are bilinguar on both servers iirc.

sturmovik.II often seems less populated than it actually is because some of its players prefer to join via IP than Hyperlobby. 101 missions however IS as empty as it looks, which is a shame, since it maps are really well done.

Both are run by members of the german community so if want to take a look hope for some participants, make sure you count in the time shift. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


III/JG27_Max </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Feathered_IV
10-14-2009, 05:37 AM
Gadje, a million thanks for that link. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
And yes, FR for me too!

I_JG78_Max
10-14-2009, 06:07 AM
@DKoor: I forgot to mention that "101 missions" is running an early war MTO campaign including the SM.79 not sure about the MCs though. The Savoia isn't as pleasant to fly in it, because it suffers from overheating at low altitudes like all planes do on a desert map. So you can't climb at 100% throttle, thus making it a slow and long climb to an altitude where overheating isn't a problem anymore.

doraemil
10-14-2009, 06:22 AM
4.09m here.

It's funny, I can't land, bomb, rocket or strafe to save my life while in wonder woman view. I ALWAYS crash and (burn) into the ground.

I realized I need a point of reference to the ground (cockpit), so I must have the cockpit on to land or strafe.

Same thing with judging closure times w/out icons, I can do it better with the cockpit as reference.


However wonder woman does allow me to make some pretty neat deflection shots.

I think its a balance here . . . yet one cannot dispute some of unknown pilot's sentiment.

IL-2's dated graphics quite aren't as great as RL vision.

AND not everyone has the PC power to run at full graphics, like with me, I see black dots until 1 km, then pixels up to .5 km. Then something recognizable after that.

I suppose that will all be fixed in BOB SOW's improved graphics.


And I saw track IR (my friend just got it for his FPS). He did a comparison of playing with and without it. His kill ratio with went through the roof. Oh man I can't wait to get it for IL-2. I thought it was just as good as the mouse scrolling view. But its way better and frees up a hand.

As for equipment . . . it does make a difference.

The POV hat is a joke for looking around. The mouse is alot smoother but requires one hand.

Twist joystick rudder coordination with the stick is lame vs actual rudder pedals.

Compare to a HOTAS guy + track IR, pedals, and mic w/ team speak vs a single joystick guy with POV hat and twist for rudder.

the HOTAS track IR dude will smoke the twist joy dude any day in regards to flying and communication if both are equally skill / equal pc / connection etc.


Maybe a middle ground, set up servers that have icons limited out to 1-2 km with full cockpit. That way you can see the dots, at distance but not know who they are until 1 km, which would simulate RL vision for those with weaksauce PC's and IL-2's aged graphics.

That said,

anyone can learn to fly and deal with full realism regardless of PC or equipment.

im aiming 4 fr myself

Unknown-Pilot
10-14-2009, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gadje:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
4.09m Servers that have full real settings are still very few. I donīt like those servers that use icons and wonder women view. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Comics/093_smilie.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the fact that we are limited to a 17 to 19" square, mono-scopic window onto the virtual world, and a VERY low resolution (vs eyesight), AND unnatural and limiting view control, AND with VERY odd fields of view... "full switch" is in fact quite UNrealistic. It actually makes it far more difficult than it would be in reality.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, yeah same old excuses coming. If you prefer easier settings, fine but the 'unrealistic' excuse won't wash. Easier than reality eh? Try this-

Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k&feature=related)

And add in G-forces, fear of death and boiling/freezing cockpits and still tell me how hard FR is compared to RL. For you it maybe too hard but plenty virtual pilots have little problem with it and that has nothing to do with flight equipment either, (plenty still use hatswitches)- just practice and willingness to push yourself.

Sorry for staying OT OP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try again, because your post there is full of fail.

See, the problem is, your ego is getting in the way. You are a smug full switch guy and WANT to call that "real" - Fact it's NOT. It's MORE DIFFICULT (&lt;- you flipped that, read slower, it sinks in better) than it would be in reality.

Put your ego aside and actually look at the situation - everything is smaller, 2D, lower res, and your neck is welded to the headrest.

If you honestly think that the most "realisitc" experience is to be had by enhancing the limitations of the interface, then you are hopeless.

If you prefer a limited experience, that's fine, just admit it to yourself - don't be giving me attitude just because I seek an experience which works around the interface limitations to be a bit closer to what it should be like (ie, being there).

Edit - Just in case there was any confusion, I don't advocate or care for wonder woman view, or use of externals or F6 in combat.

Unknown-Pilot
10-14-2009, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
4.09m here.

It's funny, I can't land, bomb, rocket or strafe to save my life while in wonder woman view. I ALWAYS crash and (burn) into the ground.

I realized I need a point of reference to the ground (cockpit), so I must have the cockpit on to land or strafe.

Same thing with judging closure times w/out icons, I can do it better with the cockpit as reference.


However wonder woman does allow me to make some pretty neat deflection shots.

I think its a balance here . . . yet one cannot dispute some of unknown pilot's sentiment.

IL-2's dated graphics quite aren't as great as RL vision.

AND not everyone has the PC power to run at full graphics, like with me, I see black dots until 1 km, then pixels up to .5 km. Then something recognizable after that.

I suppose that will all be fixed in BOB SOW's improved graphics.


And I saw track IR (my friend just got it for his FPS). He did a comparison of playing with and without it. His kill ratio with went through the roof. Oh man I can't wait to get it for IL-2. I thought it was just as good as the mouse scrolling view. But its way better and frees up a hand.

As for equipment . . . it does make a difference.

The POV hat is a joke for looking around. The mouse is alot smoother but requires one hand.

Twist joystick rudder coordination with the stick is lame vs actual rudder pedals.

Compare to a HOTAS guy + track IR, pedals, and mic w/ team speak vs a single joystick guy with POV hat and twist for rudder.

the HOTAS track IR dude will smoke the twist joy dude any day in regards to flying and communication if both are equally skill / equal pc / connection etc.


Maybe a middle ground, set up servers that have icons limited out to 1-2 km with full cockpit. That way you can see the dots, at distance but not know who they are until 1 km, which would simulate RL vision for those with weaksauce PC's and IL-2's aged graphics.

That said,

anyone can learn to fly and deal with full realism regardless of PC or equipment.

im aiming 4 fr myself </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You hit it on the head, then went back on it for some reason.

Again, this notion that all difficulty turned on is "full real" is utter nonsense.

You said it yourself, our eyes have orders of magnitude greater resolution, AND field of view.

I mentioned that before, but I dunno if it was missed - There are 3 main views in IL2, full back, middle, and gunsight/zoom. I presonally tend to fly in full back, and fight in middle, but often find it necessary to jump to full zoom, not just for ID, but also for more precise aiming (even with the upgrade to a 19" monitor I recently made).

Ok, now, bearing that in mind - full zoom is the most realistic representation of view angle in terms of object size. That is to say, when you blow it up to "life size" the amount of area that you can actually see is very small (look around in full zoom, you'll see what I mean). In order to see more of the world around you, to take at least SOME of the blinders off, you have to "zoom back", shrinking everything to fit on your tiny screen. And then even more-so in order to have a better look at your instruments.

This is just a PART of what I mean by "limitations of the interface" (the interface being our PCs, keyboards, monitors, joysticks, etc - how we interact with the virtual world).

This is compounded by the fact that the joystick responds differently in each zoom level, being most (even overly) sensitive in full zoom, causing all motions to be exaggerated.

Now, if we combine all that with resolution issues - I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still stuck at 1024x768. When IL2 first came out I was actually running at 800x600. However, even at 1600x1200, it's still **** poor compared to human vision.

What that means is, we have to get FAR too close in the game under full switch to ID planes, compared to how close the real pilots actually had to get.

This is where icons come in to play. Nobody said anything about 5Km full icons as per default. Limited icons. Limited where you see nothing until a given distance matching how close you would really need to get to identify friend or foe, and then have just that info come up (color). And when you would be close enough to see type, maybe add that (not that it matters much though). And you can turn off distance readouts entirely.

The whole point being to replicate distances real pilots were able to work with, but do so within the limitations of the interface we are forced to work with.

Now for Padlock.... there again, assuming no mods and generic hardware, you are limited twice over. Firstly, as you pointed out, POV hat or mouse, well, you can't control your throttle, or maintain good view control. Compare that to someone with a Cougar, like me, who can control the view with their microstick on the throttle... If I were to insist on no PL and accuse the other guy of being too weak or lazy to "step up", well... I think we could see what's really going on (I'd have an advantage I'd be trying to protect - pure self interest, and nearly "cheating" through hardware in a sense by intentionally tilting the metaphorical playing field).

But it goes further - remember, without mods, or even WITH mods but no TiR, your virutal neck is welded to the headrest - no 6DoF means you can't move around the cockpit to get around obstructions. This is intensified by the lack of stereo-scopic vision (as it's a 2D screen).

Look at how PL behaves when you are in combat - it will track through obstructions ONLY to a point (the limits of where you could concievably look), and only for a short time. If someone hides behind your 190s front bracing for a few seconds, PL breaks off (even when you could duck and move and look around it, maintaining visual contact, if you weren't welded to the headrest). If they go too far to an extreme, it breaks off. In fact, it's even a limitation to an extent because at certain extremes it will "seek" and or try to look in the wrong way and can actually interfere with your piloting (many people crash because they are trying to use padlock).

In fact, you don't even have to map a key for it, let alone use it if you don't want to. So people who act high and mighty about it, and who turn it off on servers are simply trying to take advantage of the hardware limitations, both innately, and of any advantage they might have over more casual (or poor) participants. It's rather sad actually, and very unfortunate.

fabianfred
10-14-2009, 09:15 AM
Good posts unknown-pilot.... I like your thinking and agree that most of the Full Real BS is just ego...
and a lot of people taking a GAME far too seriously.

JG52Uther
10-14-2009, 09:42 AM
Then again...I use a TiR,CH fighterstick,rudder pedals,a saitek throttle quad,a 22" monitor,and I still suck bigtime.I know plenty of people using the hatswitch and a cheap twisty stick that are real aces online.There is a guy in online wars who flys with a mouse and keypad.He is at least as good as nearly everyone else.

Erkki_M
10-14-2009, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
Good posts unknown-pilot.... I like your thinking and agree that most of the Full Real BS is just ego...
and a lot of people taking a GAME far too seriously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Full Real BS? Now now.... I'm with Gadje here. If the ability to actually be able to surprise an enemy, people having limited situational awareness in general, longer distances and more often than not objective based missions and people actually working together(very often replicating real life tactics) is just "BS", simply boring("oh noes, nothing has happened for 10min, what is this ****??") or just more realistic, deeper and therefore way harder to master and in that more fun than the simple, repetetive arcade deathmatches of Skies Of -servers people here often prefer?

I dont get people who say they dont play without external views and icons because they cant see the contacts. In il2 the dot size at 1024 x 760 in 17" screen seen a meter ago matches real size... Yet I have absolutely no trouble seeing planes that fly NOP over water/grass(anything but forest or city) from 7000m and a fair angle... This was called by the Luftwaffe pilots as "battle blindess" - inability to see and follor other aircraft because wrong search pattern and knowledge on where to look for. The pattern a pilot, virtual or real, looks around him, is different between a veteran and a beginner. A beginner's sight stays too long around details somewhere before too quickly looking around all the other area, while a veteran effectively scans the sky completely, not too quickly but without looking long anywhere.

You cannot learn it if you dont do it. One or two tries of "FR" isnt enough. And controllers or other equipment are no excuse! I personally play with stick, pedals, mouse and keyboard... TIR or 6DOF are definately not required, nor are throttles or even pedals, if one has a twisting stick.

If flying isnt easy in real life why should it be in game? FR is completely a differentgame from silly arcade matches and real flying is even more difficult in every possible way. Just deal with it... I do, however, think that everyone can learn the basics of FR, spotting contacts, navigation etc. in max a week or two. Its more a matter of attitude than hardware, so called "game limitations" or anything else.

Erkki_M
10-14-2009, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
4.09m here.

It's funny, I can't land, bomb, rocket or strafe to save my life while in wonder woman view. I ALWAYS crash and (burn) into the ground.

I realized I need a point of reference to the ground (cockpit), so I must have the cockpit on to land or strafe.

Same thing with judging closure times w/out icons, I can do it better with the cockpit as reference.


However wonder woman does allow me to make some pretty neat deflection shots.

I think its a balance here . . . yet one cannot dispute some of unknown pilot's sentiment.

IL-2's dated graphics quite aren't as great as RL vision.

AND not everyone has the PC power to run at full graphics, like with me, I see black dots until 1 km, then pixels up to .5 km. Then something recognizable after that.

I suppose that will all be fixed in BOB SOW's improved graphics.


And I saw track IR (my friend just got it for his FPS). He did a comparison of playing with and without it. His kill ratio with went through the roof. Oh man I can't wait to get it for IL-2. I thought it was just as good as the mouse scrolling view. But its way better and frees up a hand.

As for equipment . . . it does make a difference.

The POV hat is a joke for looking around. The mouse is alot smoother but requires one hand.

Twist joystick rudder coordination with the stick is lame vs actual rudder pedals.

Compare to a HOTAS guy + track IR, pedals, and mic w/ team speak vs a single joystick guy with POV hat and twist for rudder.

the HOTAS track IR dude will smoke the twist joy dude any day in regards to flying and communication if both are equally skill / equal pc / connection etc.


Maybe a middle ground, set up servers that have icons limited out to 1-2 km with full cockpit. That way you can see the dots, at distance but not know who they are until 1 km, which would simulate RL vision for those with weaksauce PC's and IL-2's aged graphics.

That said,

anyone can learn to fly and deal with full realism regardless of PC or equipment.

im aiming 4 fr myself </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, now, bearing that in mind - full zoom is the most realistic representation of view angle in terms of object size. That is to say, when you blow it up to "life size" the amount of area that you can actually see is very small (look around in full zoom, you'll see what I mean). In order to see more of the world around you, to take at least SOME of the blinders off, you have to "zoom back", shrinking everything to fit on your tiny screen. And then even more-so in order to have a better look at your instruments. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For seeing cockpit 1:1 perhaps, but the dots... Are you sure? Whats your source?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is just a PART of what I mean by "limitations of the interface" (the interface being our PCs, keyboards, monitors, joysticks, etc - how we interact with the virtual world).

This is compounded by the fact that the joystick responds differently in each zoom level, being most (even overly) sensitive in full zoom, causing all motions to be exaggerated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does not..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now, if we combine all that with resolution issues - I don't know about anyone else, but I'm still stuck at 1024x768. When IL2 first came out I was actually running at 800x600. However, even at 1600x1200, it's still **** poor compared to human vision.

What that means is, we have to get FAR too close in the game under full switch to ID planes, compared to how close the real pilots actually had to get. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, I can identify fighter sized planes typically about 3km away?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Now for Padock.... there again, assuming no mods and generic hardware, you are limited twice over. Firstly, as you pointed out, POV hat or mouse, well, you can't control your throttle, or maintain good view control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yes you can...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Compare that to someone with a Cougar, like me, who can control the view with their microstick on the throttle... If I were to insist on no PL and accuse the other guy of being too weak or lazy to "step up", well... I think we could see what's really going on (I'd have an advantage I'd be trying to protect - pure self interest, and nearly "cheating" through hardware in a sense by intentionally tilting the metaphorical playing field).

But it goes further - remember, without mods, or even WITH mods but no TiR, your virutal neck is welded to the headrest - no 6DoF means you can't move around the cockpit to get around obstructions. This is intensified by the lack of stereo-scopic vision (as it's a 2D screen). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How much do you think a real pilot could tilt his head? Think about a 109 pilot for example. We're talking about centimeters, especially as the pilot is practically bolted to his seat, unable to move to be able to sit where he is during the maneuvering as well... There was no 6DOH style pushing face to the canopy and checking low six...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In fact, you don't even have to map a ke
In fact, you don't even have to map a key for it, let alone use it if you don't want to. So people who act high and mighty about it, and who turn it off on servers are simply trying to take advantage of the hardware limitations, both innately, and of any advantage they might have over more casual (or poor) participants. It's rather sad actually, and very unfortunate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardware is no limitation. One of the best Il2 players I know flies using his mouse as a stick and has no TrackIR. And he flies full real only...

Unknown-Pilot
10-14-2009, 10:36 AM
Yes, it IS attitude.... yours. And ego. Also yours.

If you're such a great manly pilot that likes a challenge, then... challenge yourself, fly on the servers you belittle and treat it just as if you were on your full switch (which once again are NOT full real, actually quite the opposite).

But you don't.

You have just proven in your post what I've said, you want to hide in the limitations of the interface, and exercise a hardware superiority over others. Which actually illustrates that you aren't that great, because you need those circumstances to achieve anything.

As for the rest - open your mind as well as your eyes, read and understand what is written. Look PAST your ego about full difficulty and don't let it hang you up when you see us point out the fact that it is artificially more difficult than it should be, leading to a LESS realistic experience.

To that end, once again, I reiterate - LIMITED icons representing only what could actually be seen if it was real. I'm not going to repost all the reasons why it's not, because you chose to ignore and blow all that off for the sake of your ego - drop that and re-read it until you understand it.

Finally - prove that having only JUST properly limited icons and PL provides anyone with omniscience and removes an ability to suprise.

You can't do it. You just feel that way because of ego (when you really get down to it).

Unknown-Pilot
10-14-2009, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
Hardware is no limitation. One of the best Il2 players I know flies using his mouse as a stick and has no TrackIR. And he flies full real only... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See? More ego driven BS.

If he flies "full real", then he flies with limited icons and PL on. Period. Otherwise he flies "full switch".

Did you have to have your houses doors widened? Seriously. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BTW - I suppose we can claim that smoking doesn't kill since George Burns lived into his late 90s, still performing and smoking cigars every night. Because that is the essence of your "argument" there.

ElAurens
10-14-2009, 10:44 AM
U-P, you truly are clueless, you know.

DKoor
10-14-2009, 11:01 AM
Guys if I may... why so heated debate?

This issue isn't so hot... we all have our preferences, IMO it doesn't matter the settings it is a good time with the game that matters.

More realistic, less realistic... it can all be argued, but in the end makes no difference. Fly what you want.

K_Freddie
10-14-2009, 01:42 PM
The problem is that I haven't come across a 'Full Real' Server as such.. most FR servers have limited Icons, but I turn my icon indicators off anyway.

For those who say it's ego/BS/Not Full Real...

Ego :- Maybe in a way, but we've practised/flown more this way, so we're better at it, and the tactics needed to survive this mode of flying.

BS :- You should try some of this BS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Not Full Real :- Definitely closer to RL than what you might think, try it and feel the stress factors kick in, and the exhiliration of surviving.

NB: I still fly with my hat-switch... It's like flipping through a comic book.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

na85
10-14-2009, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
The problem is that I haven't come across a 'Full Real' Server as such.. most FR servers have limited Icons, but I turn my icon indicators off anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try spits vs 109s, they run full real. Assuming your ping is okay, that is.

In any case, "full switch" is IMO more realistic because it's actually possible to pull off a bounce and/or to escape.

In servers where externals is enabled, you get people using F6 to increase their SA dramatically, and CTRL+F2 to see where people are, what altitude they're at, etc etc. All of a sudden you magically become aware that you're the highest aircraft on the server and now you don't need to watch for contacts higher than you. Is that realistic? No.

Furthermore, if externals are enabled you can't hide in clouds, can't escape by avoiding detection (i.e. hiding by flying low over forests) etc.

On top of that, some aircraft had a visibility advantage IRL. For instance when externals or wonderwoman are enabled you can't sneak up behind and below a 109G2 or G6 early, or a corsair, or a bunch of other aircraft because their blindspots magically disappear.

Still think it's "more realistic" if you don't fly full switch?

ElAurens
10-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Let me offer apologies for my flippant comment.

We all have our preferences in game play modes, as in all other things in life. Variety is good.

I do prefer "full switch" to other forms online because of the increased challenges it offers. If it is, or is not, a better representation of real life is not an issue for me. After what, eight years of this going back to the settings of the old days, icons, padlock, external views, etc... is just too easy in a way. Or rather a different challenge, and one that I just don't enjoy anymore.

To each their own.

Carry on.

ytareh
10-14-2009, 04:40 PM
Having flown against Gadje (and his squad mate Mikester ) several times in 2 Vs 2s and been easily beaten Id say any 'implied' (by Unknown Pilot)'ego' is based on solid foundations .
Also I prefer 'full real' (no external views) myself and feel its the 'natural progression' as your skills improve as the years pass by...

jermin122
10-14-2009, 11:54 PM
If more and more players are with UP's view, I'm afraid that the life of IL2 as a flight simulator is about to end. It is really very disappointing to see HL is now dominated by arcade servers.

Woke_Up_Dead
10-15-2009, 01:16 AM
Why is it that when Unknown Pilot said "I would like a full-switch server with limited icons and padlock turned on" so many snobs replied "What?!? You want a noobish wonder-woman arcade server?!? Oh this poor and noble game is going to the dogs!"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
Funny, I can identify fighter sized planes typically about 3km away?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way I can do that with my computer/monitor.

And this is Unknown Pilot's main point about a hardware edge. Turning on limited (1 km? maybe 2 km?) icons would level the playing field between those that have the $$ for good equipment, and those that only have what the 1946 box recommends.

You can recognize fighters at 3km? I have 20/20 vision and after playing this game for over a year, about 40% of it with the cockpit on, I can't. So you hold that edge not only because you're good at ID'ing planes, but because your hardware allows you to.

I too would like a full-switch 4.09 server that has icon settings that tell you if a plane is friend or foe from 1-2 kms away. That would take almost nothing away from any element of surprise, which I greatly enjoy whenever I fly closed-pit. Speedbar would be nice too.

RSS-Martin
10-15-2009, 01:23 AM
Well you can wish for what you want, looking at hyperlobby and which servers are visited and which not....people decide with their feet, if they donīt like it they are not going to come, or stay.

But you do sort of wonder, what is it that people wish to fly vintage planes but with all the creature comforts of modern jet planes? It just seems wacked.

It is sort of like wanting to drive a Ford Model T with automatic, and power steering, and if possible with AC. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Gadje
10-15-2009, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
No way I can do that with my computer/monitor.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry to have to inform you, your monitor/computer/trackir/rudder pedals etc etc just isn't going to make as much difference as your practicing something will. Thats my experience.
Settings are a matter of choice and contrary to what Mr UF believes I fly varied settings not just FR but for me its the hardest challenge and most realistic. Although none of my upgrades improved my success rate (This isn't 'World of Warcraft' you can't buy skill), what they did do was increase my enjoyment of IL-2.

Here is my experience of equipment changes-



-Computer. Well I'm still on a 5 year old P4 so can't comment but I doubt a new one will make me a better pilot.

-TrackIr. Got it while still an offline player but still got bounced constantly when I went online as it didn't do the the checking of my 6 for me.

-Monitor. Replaced a 19'' CRT with a 24'' flatscreen recently. I still cant see dots as well as before after several months of use. The old CRT was better..seriously! IL-2 looks fab at 1920x1200 though.

-Stick. Bought a CH one a few years back.It took a bit of getting used to the loose springs but liked it in the end. It broke recently went back to a Saitek with frankly no difference to my flying or shooting after two days.

-Rudder pedals. Took a long time to get used to but feels intuitive now and I like them.

-Graphics card. Its an AGP one so frames get slow on perfect. Still can follow a bandit though.


Get the best equipment you can afford but don't expect wonders to your skill level or that you will be able to fly at harder settings. Practice is the only thing that works for that.

And finally concerning egos. Anyone who flys FR settings to try and lord it over those who don't is either a n00b at the settings or a fool in my view. However guys like U-P and their bluff'n'gruff responses to people who do like to push themselves at hard settings are suffering from ego problems themselves- bruised ones. Reminds me of the unfortunate modern habit of kids ridiculing classmates as uncool and swots if the try to improve themselves academically. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

If you don't enjoy hard settings thats all you need to say, thats what most folk do with no trauma. To blame your equipment and when that doesn't work say it is unrealistic and people who fly that setting are all elitist snobs and full of BS, just sounds like a chip on the shoulder to me.
Perhaps its you that needs to believe its unimportant what settings you fly. I fly several and don't care.

ytareh
10-15-2009, 04:45 AM
IL2 does NOT benefit from expensive hardware that is less than 3 or 4 years old .Graphical imporvements ended with the ATi X1950 and Nvidia 7900 series cards at the latest .
The dot visibility issue couldnt be simpler -Use lower resolution -MAXIMUM 1280x1024...I use (and read that Oleg 'optimised' the game for) 1024x768.I have a 30 inch monitor and at 2560x1600 cant even see planes taking off from a base below me at 500m alt (Im not vulching,honest!)Even in 'dogfight' /small map servers its hopeless at higher res...In a less enemy dense environment you may as well be flying a 737 in FSX for all the chance you have of seeing an enemy plane (which isnt to say he wont find YOU!)
Unless you are viewing enemy 'dots' against a clear blue sky (and even then theyre tiny)youre wasting your time on higher res .
SUMMARY Fly 1024x768 and see the dots (whether on 15" CRT or 30" TFT)

na85
10-15-2009, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
IL2 does NOT benefit from expensive hardware that is less than 3 or 4 years old .Graphical imporvements ended with the ATi X1950 and Nvidia 7900 series cards at the latest .
The dot visibility issue couldnt be simpler -Use lower resolution -MAXIMUM 1280x1024...I use (and read that Oleg 'optimised' the game for) 1024x768.I have a 30 inch monitor and at 2560x1600 cant even see planes taking off from a base below me at 500m alt (Im not vulching,honest!)Even in 'dogfight' /small map servers its hopeless at higher res...In a less enemy dense environment you may as well be flying a 737 in FSX for all the chance you have of seeing an enemy plane (which isnt to say he wont find YOU!)
Unless you are viewing enemy 'dots' against a clear blue sky (and even then theyre tiny)youre wasting your time on higher res .
SUMMARY Fly 1024x768 and see the dots (whether on 15" CRT or 30" TFT) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO it just takes getting used to. When I upgraded I went from 1024x768 to 1680x1050 and it took me a while to get used to it again, but I can see dots against the runways and whatnot from quite a ways off.

DKoor
10-15-2009, 08:04 AM
Now that you started it... I will continue...

In your opinion, what does Perfect &lt;-&gt; Excellent landscape difference means in this regard?

Are dots easier to spot on Perfect or Excellent, or is it same?

na85
10-15-2009, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Now that you started it... I will continue...

In your opinion, what does Perfect &lt;-&gt; Excellent landscape difference means in this regard?

Are dots easier to spot on Perfect or Excellent, or is it same? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't really noticed much of a difference

Phillip58
10-15-2009, 09:07 AM
The term "Full-real" I find very funny. Do you shoot yourself in the head when you you get a PK? I mean, that is as real as it gets! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif


Phillip

AndyJWest
10-15-2009, 09:32 AM
Returning to the original topic of this thread, UK-Dedicated1 is now running 4.09m, though UK-Dedicated2 is still 4.08m. UK-Dedicated3 doesn't seem to be online currently, but I last 5 minutes on there anyway.

As for what settings I prefer, I'm still learning, and without at least external padlock I'm useless, though I can do without Wonder-Woman view. Mostly though I need to improve my aim - I've just emptied most of a Spit's cannons into an Arado jet from it's six, and still left it flying... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

rnzoli
10-15-2009, 10:00 AM
My fav is on 4.09m, but the new flyables need new dynamic campaign engine and campaigns also.
http://mohaces.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=349

RSS-Martin
10-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Well Zeke vs. Wildcats and Spits vs 109 are dragging their rear, guess will have to look for an alternativ.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Sturmtruppen3.jpg

Sokol__1
10-15-2009, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The POV hat is a joke for looking around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

POV hat + New View = mouse panning...

Wonder woman x full switch (full 'real' is a Oleg joke):

Some (many) guys prefer play Day of Defeat (Counter Strike like), and some (minus) prefer play Red Orchestra. And all have fun.

Sokol1

TS_Sancho
10-15-2009, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well Zeke vs. Wildcats and Spits vs 109 are dragging their rear, guess will have to look for an alternativ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ask and you shall receive.......

http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/...ile=viewtopic&t=5647 (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5647)

They are just mucking out the small details, like does it work.

ytareh
10-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Well na85 as it happens I CAN see the dots on the runway but in the air unless against clear skies its impossible.

Erkki_M
10-15-2009, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
Yes, it IS attitude.... yours. And ego. Also yours.

If you're such a great manly pilot that likes a challenge, then... challenge yourself, fly on the servers you belittle and treat it just as if you were on your full switch (which once again are NOT full real, actually quite the opposite).

But you don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And give other players a hundred advantages against me they havent earned?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You have just proven in your post what I've said, you want to hide in the limitations of the interface, and exercise a hardware superiority over others. Which actually illustrates that you aren't that great, because you need those circumstances to achieve anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if you think nVidia 7600 GS, Pentium IV 2.8GHz dual, 1,5Gb of 333MHz RAM, integrated sound card, CH 568 stick, CH pro pedals, crappy logitech mouse and keyboard plus 22" wide screen running 1650 x 1050 is "hardware superiority"? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And I'm with Gadje, the larger the resolution the harder the dots are to see. 1024 x 760 is the optimal. I used to see cons much, much further and better with the olf 17" and ATI Radeon 9600 pro, running 1024 x 960...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for the rest - open your mind as well as your eyes, read and understand what is written. Look PAST your ego about full difficulty and don't let it hang you up when you see us point out the fact that it is artificially more difficult than it should be, leading to a LESS realistic experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Labels floating next to planes, game turning your head for you, seeing speed, alt and compass heading at lower left corner of screen are making game from artifically more difficult to more realistic? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To that end, once again, I reiterate - LIMITED icons representing only what could actually be seen if it was real. I'm not going to repost all the reasons why it's not, because you chose to ignore and blow all that off for the sake of your ego - drop that and re-read it until you understand it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to become impulsive with me. I stand my opinion and agree 100% with Gadje. And that guy using a joymouse is =KAG=Bersrk from Volgograd, Russia, and he plays nothing but "full switch"(the term you use of all boxes checked) only. And is a VERY dangerous opponent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Finally - prove that having only JUST properly limited icons and PL provides anyone with omniscience and removes an ability to suprise.

You can't do it. You just feel that way because of ego (when you really get down to it). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hows yours, by the way?

JG52Uther
10-15-2009, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">=KAG=Bersrk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats the guy! Couldn't remember his name!

Woke_Up_Dead
10-15-2009, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gadje:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
No way I can do that with my computer/monitor.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry to have to inform you, your monitor/computer/trackir/rudder pedals etc etc just isn't going to make as much difference as your practicing something will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to apologize, I realize that. After a year of play I can see a huge improvement, reflected in my skills and enjoyment of the game, and I have not bought a single piece of hardware during that time. But there is no amount of practice that will let me recognize planes at 3km on my current equipment, no way, no how.

Many of the posters here who are for full-switch actually acknowledge the hardware edge when they discuss the differences between resolutions, monitors, etc. If certain settings, video cards, or monitors can let you ID planes better than others, then it's not a stretch to realize that some players may not be able to achieve the ideal setup.

If the icon distance is set just right (I'm guessing somewhere between 500-1000m), then the style of flying and fighting on the server won't really change much, the players who practiced identifying planes from beyond that distance will still have their advantage, the hardware edge won't be completely eliminated but at least the playing field will be a little more level. And if it spoils the immersion for you, then just turn the icons off; if you are at the stage where an icon can spoil the spell for you then you are probably good enough to ID planes beyond 500-1000m anyway.

The argument is probably even stronger for padlock; an opponent using that feature will have absolutely zero influence on your enjoyment and immersion in the game.

I get the concern, I also occasionally like to fly on a server where I have to think my mission and flight-path through, where I have to spend some time climbing, where the adrenaline that comes from surprising someone or being surprised is fantastic, etc. Obviously fooling around with the server setting switches too much can spoil that. However, I doubt that limited icons and padlock will change a closed-pit server at all, except to make it a little more fair and a little more inviting.

Erkki_M
10-15-2009, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
Why is it that when Unknown Pilot said "I would like a full-switch server with limited icons and padlock turned on" so many snobs replied "What?!? You want a noobish wonder-woman arcade server?!? Oh this poor and noble game is going to the dogs!"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
Funny, I can identify fighter sized planes typically about 3km away?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way I can do that with my computer/monitor.

And this is Unknown Pilot's main point about a hardware edge. Turning on limited (1 km? maybe 2 km?) icons would level the playing field between those that have the $$ for good equipment, and those that only have what the 1946 box recommends.

You can recognize fighters at 3km? I have 20/20 vision and after playing this game for over a year, about 40% of it with the cockpit on, I can't. So you hold that edge not only because you're good at ID'ing planes, but because your hardware allows you to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theres no hardware advantage. Typically there are max 5-6 different types of single engined aircraft in the air. A Spitfire is very easy to ID: black, big ellipting wing beginning shortly after the nose. One(mk V) or two radiators that are clearly visible. A 109 has a "stick-ish" wing further from engine, has radiators closer to the fuselage, is gray/green(has huge black crosses). But very often you can ID planes before you even get to see their shape or colour... Where are they? What are they doing? What were they possibly doing before you spotted them? If they fly level, how fast? If they climb, how quickly? If they were bandits, do they think they were acting typically for a bandit over friendly/enemy territory, near targets, etc. Everything matters, you might be able to ID them even by the colour of their tracers....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I too would like a full-switch 4.09 server that has icon settings that tell you if a plane is friend or foe from 1-2 kms away. That would take almost nothing away from any element of surprise, which I greatly enjoy whenever I fly closed-pit. Speedbar would be nice too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1km is a long distance...

Xiolablu3
10-15-2009, 12:15 PM
Just play the settings you enjoy.

Personally, for a general fun game, I enjoy pit-on with externals best.

Noone can deny that full real settings ARE much more like the real WW2 fighting, however. That shock as you get hit and taken by complete surprise is just so realistic, and you can just imagine how 50% of WW2 pilots felt as they were hit..but dont know where from. That hardly happens on the other settings, especially not full icons, as you can see that massive arrow pointing to every enemy.

Not saying it isnt fun tho, it definitely is.

na85
10-15-2009, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
Well na85 as it happens I CAN see the dots on the runway but in the air unless against clear skies its impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bizarre. I definitely can spot dots much easier against the sky than any terrain.

Over water and forest are hardest for me.

BaronUnderpants
10-15-2009, 03:55 PM
Mostly fly on SoV and occasionally on UK-Dedicated2. Allways closed pit.


As for Paddlock, never used it and never will. Also wished there where a way to disable Ctrl+F2 and still keep externals on (Flown long enough to recognize that femilliar feeling when somone is out to get u specificly cos u shoot him down).



As for flying with no icon, not an option for me since im colorblind = complete waste of time more or less. Actually, from long distances i have no problems seeing dots most of the times (SoV has pretty close enemy icons) its when i get closer as in DF, my colorblindness kicks in and hampers my ability to keep eyecontact with opponents, especially with forrest below. Without close icons i would more or less be DF`ing myselfe half the time without knowing it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Didnt ask for it but there it is.

JG52Uther
10-15-2009, 04:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well Zeke vs. Wildcats and Spits vs 109 are dragging their rear, guess will have to look for an alternativ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ask and you shall receive.......

http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/...ile=viewtopic&t=5647 (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5647)

They are just mucking out the small details, like does it work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just been on their forums.Sounds like a mess.409 standard ok,but strange to stay on 409b for the modded servers.

DKoor
10-15-2009, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well Zeke vs. Wildcats and Spits vs 109 are dragging their rear, guess will have to look for an alternativ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ask and you shall receive.......

http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/...ile=viewtopic&t=5647 (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5647)

They are just mucking out the small details, like does it work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lol they are really packing don't they?

Required to Play:UI 1.2

stopped reading there.

But spit v 109 still runs full official so its a go for me.

Any modded server is a go for me too as long as they don't force me to use something that isn't official. I dislike that.

na85
10-15-2009, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Lol they are really packing don't they?

Required to Play:UI 1.2

stopped reading there.

But spit v 109 still runs full official so its a go for me.

Any modded server is a go for me too as long as they don't force me to use something that isn't official. I dislike that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They require the mods because otherwise on some of the maps you will get invisible planes shooting you down.

Woke_Up_Dead
10-15-2009, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Theres no hardware advantage. Typically there are max 5-6 different types of single engined aircraft in the air. A Spitfire is very easy to ID: black, big ellipting wing beginning shortly after the nose. One(mk V) or two radiators that are clearly visible. A 109 has a "stick-ish" wing further from engine, has radiators closer to the fuselage, is gray/green(has huge black crosses). But very often you can ID planes before you even get to see their shape or colour... Where are they? What are they doing? What were they possibly doing before you spotted them? If they fly level, how fast? If they climb, how quickly? If they were bandits, do they think they were acting typically for a bandit over friendly/enemy territory, near targets, etc. Everything matters, you might be able to ID them even by the colour of their tracers....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get all that and I use it when I play in closed-pit servers, but there IS a hardware advantage. If you can tell an elliptical wing from a square one from further away on one monitor than another, then that's a hardware advantage. If you can see the radiators from further away on one machine then that's a hardware advantage.

na85
10-15-2009, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:

I get all that and I use it when I play in closed-pit servers, but there IS a hardware advantage. If you can tell an elliptical wing from a square one from further away on one monitor than another, then that's a hardware advantage. If you can see the radiators from further away on one machine then that's a hardware advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's really not worth getting upset over. 90% of the time I id bogeys by the colour of their tracers and behaviour. If you're flying an eastern front scenario and you see two dots, one zooming wayyy up and the other one not zooming, chances are good the zoomer is a german. Add tracer colour on top of that and you can ID bandits from 4km+

RSS-Martin
10-15-2009, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well Zeke vs. Wildcats and Spits vs 109 are dragging their rear, guess will have to look for an alternativ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ask and you shall receive.......

http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/...ile=viewtopic&t=5647 (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5647)

They are just mucking out the small details, like does it work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lol they are really packing don't they?

Required to Play:UI 1.2

stopped reading there.

But spit v 109 still runs full official so its a go for me.

Any modded server is a go for me too as long as they don't force me to use something that isn't official. I dislike that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that is it, they are just taking care of the mod-fliers, but those that fly 4.09m with no mods can wait till sometime.
As I read often in their forum, it seems they are just keeping everything as it is until they can serve the mod-fliers. Also it is funny that other servers like 101 Missions und Stormovik Queensland didnīt seem to have any problems switching to 4.09m at all, and I doubt that WoP has such totally differant maps and settings that, they have to stay on 4,09mb1

na85
10-15-2009, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

Yeah that is it, they are just taking care of the mod-fliers, but those that fly 4.09m with no mods can wait till sometime.
As I read often in their forum, it seems they are just keeping everything as it is until they can serve the mod-fliers. Also it is funny that other servers like 101 Missions und Stormovik Queensland didnīt seem to have any problems switching to 4.09m at all, and I doubt that WoP has such totally differant maps and settings that, they have to stay on 4,09mb1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually they're upgrading spits/109s no mods to 4.09m on the 20th.

paddyjed
10-16-2009, 10:03 AM
the SYNDICATE or SYN_4.09_REAL is a new server running 4.09 no mods. We are trying new maps with full real settings. Maps are historic or near historic with the emphasis on playablity. As it is a new server numbers will be limited until the word gets around so please join and let us know how you get on. We welcome map makers aswell so if you have any ideas feel free to share them.

We will also be running DCG campaigns on Sunday evenings UK and all are welcome.

Stats will follow soon aswell as a new website so bear with us.

Public ventrilo server is available aswell.

www.thesyndicate.tk (http://www.thesyndicate.tk)

PanzerAce
10-16-2009, 03:38 PM
The real problem I have with "mod" servers is when they claim that that they can't upgrade now because 4.09 hasn't been modded...but they don't actually run any mod planes or maps on their server in the first place...

RSS-Martin
10-17-2009, 01:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

Yeah that is it, they are just taking care of the mod-fliers, but those that fly 4.09m with no mods can wait till sometime.
As I read often in their forum, it seems they are just keeping everything as it is until they can serve the mod-fliers. Also it is funny that other servers like 101 Missions und Stormovik Queensland didnīt seem to have any problems switching to 4.09m at all, and I doubt that WoP has such totally differant maps and settings that, they have to stay on 4,09mb1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually they're upgrading spits/109s no mods to 4.09m on the 20th. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but only Spits vs. 109, Zeke vs Wildcat is in future a no go, as they are switching to mods. So will have to look for another Pacific theatre server. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/51.gif

Worf101
10-18-2009, 08:50 PM
Well, I went on tonight, I'm flying vanilla 4.09m and found no coops and few servers running it. Most were running 4.08 plus mods or 4.091b and mods.

Interesting.

Worf

Bearcat99
10-18-2009, 10:04 PM
I cant believe we are still having this silly debate.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif Fly it like you bought it.

As for the original topic.. I have yet to fly 4.09m online since I fly mostly coops and since I can't get the 4.09m content to work with mods... I have only flown it offline. I find the difference in AI to be the most glaring difference. I can get used to no 6DoF.. although I dont want to..

DKoor
10-19-2009, 01:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Worf101:
Well, I went on tonight, I'm flying vanilla 4.09m and found no coops and few servers running it. Most were running 4.08 plus mods or 4.091b and mods.

Interesting.

Worf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hope to see some of these servers make switch to official 409 in near future. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

EJGrOst_Caspar
10-20-2009, 02:50 AM
by.sturmovik.II = 4.09m = full real DF

CZ_AH_dedicated = 4.09m DF = full real DF (+ icons)

Both to find in Hyperlobby.
First one has a dynamic campaign.
Later one has quite a few pacific missions to offer.

Feathered_IV
10-20-2009, 03:41 AM
by.sturmovik.II sounds like just the thing. I show a ping of 411 though here in Australia, so it puts it just out of reach for me. A great shame.

RSS-Martin
10-20-2009, 03:53 AM
Well that is no surprise, as by.sturmovik.II is located in Germany, and Australia is not exactly around the corner! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I have a high ping too when I fly on Japanese servers.

DKoor
10-20-2009, 04:51 AM
Good thing they are both on XFire as well, so I'm gonna fav them there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Just flew a mission on CZ_AH, did good in Romanian He-111 until finish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif .

EJGrOst_Caspar
10-20-2009, 11:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well that is no surprise, as by.sturmovik.II is located in Germany, and Australia is not exactly around the corner! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I have a high ping too when I fly on Japanese servers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lts lay a cable across through the earth then! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif