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FM_Golden_Eagle
08-04-2006, 02:28 PM
After the last interview with Oleg I start seriously wondering if BOB is not in a real risk of being simply scrapped or stopped for purely financial reasons sometime in the future.

Let me explain. We are talking of a delivery time maybe end next year. This will make a good three years for BOB at least.

To pay a full game development team with top notch people for such a long time we are talking millions of dollars and more. Knowing that Oleg would not accept less than a perfect product this means even more.

We all know that this kind of product is for a niche market of flight simulation hard core enthusiasts. How can Ubi recover it's costs and make money I start wondering. On a 25-30 US$ game selling price you should sell a hell lot of them. Do not forget pirates and all these vampire kind of people that just help kill the business. Unfortunately Boontybox or Starforce type of antipiracy products are a worse remedy.

There have been in the past many game titles whose production was just stopped or cancelled in midflight.

I think we should all start think about it and be prepared in case of such a thing happens. Personally I would consider it a big blow and the end of a very nice dream.

But let's be positive mybe Oleg has the right trick or the right sponsor who can pay just for the fun of it. Who knows?

Gold

FM_Golden_Eagle
08-04-2006, 02:28 PM
After the last interview with Oleg I start seriously wondering if BOB is not in a real risk of being simply scrapped or stopped for purely financial reasons sometime in the future.

Let me explain. We are talking of a delivery time maybe end next year. This will make a good three years for BOB at least.

To pay a full game development team with top notch people for such a long time we are talking millions of dollars and more. Knowing that Oleg would not accept less than a perfect product this means even more.

We all know that this kind of product is for a niche market of flight simulation hard core enthusiasts. How can Ubi recover it's costs and make money I start wondering. On a 25-30 US$ game selling price you should sell a hell lot of them. Do not forget pirates and all these vampire kind of people that just help kill the business. Unfortunately Boontybox or Starforce type of antipiracy products are a worse remedy.

There have been in the past many game titles whose production was just stopped or cancelled in midflight.

I think we should all start think about it and be prepared in case of such a thing happens. Personally I would consider it a big blow and the end of a very nice dream.

But let's be positive mybe Oleg has the right trick or the right sponsor who can pay just for the fun of it. Who knows?

Gold

russ.nl
08-04-2006, 03:08 PM
I think you can trust Oleg on this. It is made in Russia and the wages there are not as high as other western countries. And this game is not made for the big $$$. There are just not enough people around that like this ganre. I think Oleg started with IL-2 to see if it could work. It did and fb, eap and pf came. With the IL-2 engine he has made a very respectible reputation. So when he wants to make his brain child I think that there was not a lot of problem to get the funding.

But this is all speculation from me.

triad773
08-04-2006, 03:17 PM
Mmmmmmmm yes, there is that risk. I know I had thought about it too. But I had preferred to just chug along with the rest and see what happens, of course hoping for the best. It has been a very long development cycle, be sure. But they are shooting very high, and I wish them every success in achieving what sounds like will be a smashing success http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
08-04-2006, 03:36 PM
I'm surprised this series has been around as long at it has really. I wouldn't be surprised if its his customers in Russia that keep Oleg in business.

WWMaxGunz
08-04-2006, 04:20 PM
Original IL2 1.0 was 4 years in making.

HayateAce
08-04-2006, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
I'm surprised this series has been around as long at it has really. I wouldn't be surprised if its his customers in Russia that keep Oleg in business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially when it was discovered that most of the piracy of one of the last big addons was within Russia.

heywooood
08-04-2006, 06:31 PM
'they' call this a 'niche' market....makes you wonder how much truth there is to that.

look at all the new flight sims coming up and the longevity of FAP has something to do with that be sure, and see a different truth maybe?

...seems that there is coin in the console realm to be had from adaptations of these pc versions as well...

looks like a fat niche nicht?

Targ
08-04-2006, 07:46 PM
PF sold around 50,000 copies so I would call that a very small market.
IL2 sold 600,00 East and West but I am not 100% certain.
That is ok but not good, great for a combat flight sim but a mainstream game will always sell well over a million copies.

FM_Golden_Eagle
08-05-2006, 04:35 AM
If BOB is of the expected high quality and as immersive or more as the IL2 series have been then I consider that 40$ (this is what I paid in Europe at the time) is really a very small price for a game that has already lasted four years with all patches, extensions add-ons.

If we estimate the profitability for us users of this game it is immense as the cost per hour played in four years would be around 40$ for at minimum 1000 hours played that is 4 cents/hour. But the majority paid less than that for the game and played more if we consider also campaigns and mission development, skins etc.

So we can say that it is around 1 cent/hr or less.

Those who just copied and paid nothing should be ashamed as every one that can afford a PC can afford to pay 1ct/hr of high quality game. Piracy here is stupidity as it can kill the game.

To conclude here is my proposal. Let decide all of us pure hard core simmers when BOB will be out to buy a copy and if it is up to expectation to immediately buy a second copy as a backup. It makes sens as CD/DVD are fragile and they must be constantly in the CD reader to be able to play. Again I do not adress the "geniouses" that have found ways to avoid the necessity of having the original cd in the PC.

In this way buy investing one more cent/hr of cost for us we easily double the number of CD sold and help Oleg continue for years to come.

I suppose everybody does not agree?

Gold

carguy_
08-05-2006, 05:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FM_Golden_Eagle:
After the last interview with Oleg I start seriously wondering if BOB is not in a real risk of being simply scrapped or stopped for purely financial reasons sometime in the future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those things happen.It`s life.If they are proffesional and have good market strategy it will not be canceled.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
To pay a full game development team with top notch people for such a long time we are talking millions of dollars and more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well a Russian company that is MG already has top notch ppl working since the start of IL2.They were completely unheard of but made it for the best WWII flight sim of all PC times.
A little more optimism.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Knowing that Oleg would not accept less than a perfect product this means even more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You livin in a dream world?
Leaving the 'perfect' term alone(nothing is perfect),I`m affraid some people idealise Oleg Maddox.Oleg Maddox is a human being working on his new project.Besides that he has his family,eats,drinks( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif ),sleeps,loves and needs time to rest.What more to say,he is still dependant of Ubi.That means if ubi says release in January`07,the release it is.The product will be buggy at first just as IL2/FB/PF were.Believe me,they were VERY buggy.
Gamer experience says that no matter how long you hold it back,there will always be iritating bugs in the final release.An experienced gamer(that I am ofcourse http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ) will await up to 4months after the release to enjoy the game with a relatively small number of iritating bugs.Better prepare cuz no moaning will change that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
We all know that this kind of product is for a niche market of flight simulation hard core enthusiasts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually there are too few of those who pay much for this kind of stuff in this gamer isle.The flightsim market has to be broaden.Otherwise it will die out.Todays market is making a next ttempt at expanding it.Lets hope it is made.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
How can Ubi recover it's costs and make money I start wondering. On a 25-30 US$ game selling price you should sell a hell lot of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I myself wonder why did Ubi ever let it go deeper than Forgotten Battles.Market wise relatively all MG releases were very low sales.The best WWII flightsim label does not make much if the producer does not make enough cash.If it`s not worth it,we just don`t go into it,nowadays.
Furthermore,Ubi let Oleg release all those free addons.It was a giveaway.Dunno bout you but I smile everytime I get to extract the 4.03m addon.Lots of free stuff and how much enjoyment.


Thanks to Ubi for that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Do not forget pirates and all these vampire kind of people that just help kill the business. Unfortunately Boontybox or Starforce type of antipiracy products are a worse remedy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A matter of approach.You either take the fact they will always be there or not.Dumping Starforce by Ubi was IMO a very good move and a bow to the gaming "society".I applaud them and await starfoceless BoB with patience.
Ubi though is just a company seeking profit.Won`t be shocked if they come up with something else similary iritating.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
There have been in the past many game titles whose production was just stopped or cancelled in midflight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes,many.The most painful for me being the FALLOUT3.Fallout is my 2nd best game ever.

Also I`d like to remind Ubi and MG what happened to DAIKATANA game.Those who know what I`m talkin bout get the drift.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I think we should all start think about it and be prepared in case of such a thing happens. Personally I would consider it a big blow and the end of a very nice dream. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes,ofcourse,we should get prepared.Uuuum don`t you think it`s a bit nerdy?I`m gonna move on if this happens plenty of bad stuff happens in life.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
But let's be positive mybe Oleg has the right trick or the right sponsor who can pay just for the fun of it. Who knows? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From my POV,Ubi is just that.I think it also might be prestige,but I`m not into marketing enough to know how a factor of this kind influences the company.

stansdds
08-05-2006, 06:25 AM
I think Carguy has summed it up rather nicely.

Chuck_Older
08-05-2006, 07:37 AM
So now we have the Pre-Vaporware Speculation Fantods?

Boys and girls, men and women of all ages, please for the luvva Christ don't take an interview with Oleg, apply logic that makes sense to you as an outsider in the business, and start addding 2+2. You're going to get 15. When you start factoring in the things that you "know" and the things you suppose, how on Earth can you get an accurate picture?

Use your noggins folks

Xiolablu3
08-19-2006, 06:42 AM
The reason Olegs games are so good, is becasue he truly loves what he does.

He is not making the game purely for money, he wants to make a realistic WW2 flight sim, the money is just a bonus.

Its when a company starts making games purely for money that they start to go ****. Think Combat FLight Sim.

When a developer purely believes in what he is doing, and is ,making the game HE wants to play, this often results in a classic game. (Deus Ex 1, Operation Flashpoint, Il2 Sturmovik, Halflife1, Doom1, Quake3, System Shock, Call Of Duty, Counterstrike and many more usually PC games)

Battle Of Britain will definitely come out, its Olegs new love. (his last was IL2)

Xiolablu3
08-19-2006, 06:48 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by carguy_:

Yes,many.The most painful for me being the FALLOUT3.Fallout is my 2nd best game ever.

Also I`d like to remind Ubi and MG what happened to DAIKATANA game.Those who know what I`m talkin bout get the drift.

[QUOTE]

Have you tried the UFO Aftermath/UFO Aftershock games , Carguy?

My brother bought these a while ago, and I played them recently, really good game which I think are a bit like Jagged Alliance? (Turn Based SHooters?) Well worth a look if you can find them on Budget buy.

AFtershock (the sequel) requires a Gfx card with Shader 2 (Geforce FX/Radeon 9500)

Viper2005_
08-19-2006, 07:51 AM
What purpose does this thread serve?

Why worry about something you can't control?

VW-IceFire
08-19-2006, 08:44 AM
I suspect Oleg is taking his product into the professional level. Storm of War: Battle of Britain is a commercial released product but it sounds like he's selling the engines abilities to people needing affordable flight simulator engines to do things like sailplane training, aerobatics training, and the like. I suspect thats why so much work as been done on things like air, turbulence, weather, thermals, and so forth.

I'm sure there is a decent market willing to pay for a professionally done high detail (much moreso than what we would have normally) flight model within the new engine. That can be a significant source of revenue. The game engines these days are sophisticated enough to allow for that sort of thing...

Eagle Dynamics seems to have done the same thing with Lock On's engine. They are developing and have available a professional war simulator that seems to have gathered the interest of many nations militaries with bigger budgets than the average gamer to say the least.

I'm not too worried. Oleg seems like a smart and savvy businessman...I would suspect he has plans that take into account the possiblities open to him. I think flight simming has slowly gained popularity again. What will be important is making the games relevant to the audience. More importantly...I think the audience has to open up to the possiblities of different theaters than the one they specifically want.