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View Full Version : The Anti-vulching doctrine. The vulchers nightmare.



F19_Ob
04-03-2005, 02:28 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hello mates...I love vultures and their equivalent the online "vulcher".
I think vulchers add an important dimension to the online game. The possibility of being attacked when most vulnerable is very thrilling and to survive such a situation is fun. If u also shoot down the vulcher U'll be happy as a larch.
While one vulcher is amusing, two or more may supress an entire airfield.
Vulchers are also less amusing if they concentrate on spawning planes wich have no time to grasp the situation before its too late.
Therefore I thought I'd give some tips, a tactic, that not only increases survivability close to an airfield but also if well executed can be the vulchers nightmare.

---------------------------------------

The Anti-vulching doctrine.

The idea is too climb to altitude above the airfield to atleast 1000m before U continue your climb on the way to your target or cap area. The reason to do that is that Circling while gaining altitude makes it harder for a vulcher to target you, and the turn gives u a better field of view behind and also U get a fast overall look around and thus can warn for incoming contacts and also look behind your friendlies who also might be doing the same as U. So with a couple of more friendlies circling for altitude U'll have superb lookout .
The circle doesn't have to be tight and the climbrate is only marginally slower than on a straight run.

This way all planes, bombers and fighters, taking off are more protected and they themselves will cover the base while climbing to their prefered altitude.
It's a sane idea to get some altitude before leaving because the experienced enemy will make sure he goes to battle with the energyadvantage and starting a climb in or close to target is pretty stupid because it makes u a slow target, easy to aim at and get away from.

Many just rush off on low altitude after take-off to get to the targetarea fast, without giving their buddies or themselves a thought, while it just takes 1-3 minutes longer to do it right.
U can climb several hundred meters in 60 seconds
and be much better off tactically.
------------

An additional tips is, whenever U climb do it in a wide turn wich allows u a good look behind.
Climbing is a dangerous thing so dont let your speed too low. A slow climber offers a deflection-free shot for the enemy.


This should be a thing to practise on all DF servers with vulching problems and the result will be that vulching becomes more difficult and therefore a challange to perform and survive.


A few thoughts...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Orheim
04-03-2005, 03:38 PM
that's was really some good thoughts, having planes climbing closeby the base will work as a cover cloud for other taking off planes..... I see that you suffer from major drawback syndroms obhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif While other F19's have a blast with 12 others in F19_Cr@pGalore you lean back in the sofa and get tacticalhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
04-03-2005, 04:18 PM
He he....actually I have been practising, but offline.
Although my elevatormovement is broken on my stick I still can do very gentle turning. Also have given turning with only flaps and rudder some thought.
I never really practised maneuvering and performing combat with the use of flaps alone.
So....I'm not lazy. I have to be fit when I get back online with u boys so I can keep your a$$es free of enemies in the 'ob'vious manner.

----------------------

There are lots of lonely flyers out there who perhaps never have the chance to frequently discuss and test tactics with others like I do.
So I give some ideas to contemplate on.
Sometimes a little information can enable a huge leap in someones understanding and I know myself how little can be needed to make the next step in the personal evolution.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JerryFodder
04-04-2005, 04:17 AM
I have a better way to deal with Vulchers. I simply note who done it and announce it so everyone knows. Then I switch sides and fly to the vulch location, creep in and kill him. Then I immediately fly back to his respawn point and vulch him myself a lot. I don't care for the points, i'd rather just spoil the game of someone who cannot fly themselves as they like to do to others. There's nothing worse than having to set for takeoff in the middle of your former burning wreckage.

WOLFMondo
04-04-2005, 05:43 AM
JerryFodder, come fly on a warclouds where vulching is allowed and its fun:P And if you swtich sides and TK then you'll probably get banned for it. Vulching can also take skill! And it was a real life practice! By all sides!

Ever been part of a 6 B25, A20 or P38 formation and gone to attack a base? Its good fun, it takes skills and co-oridnation to get everyone back alive, the defenders have fun if they destroy the attackers and you guessed it, its just like what really happened in WW2. Also whats the best way to win a map? Fight planes in the air? No, prevent them taking off so your sides bombers can take out the target without being interferred with.

Nice guide though to combat vulchers but I don't see them as either a problem or an annoyance. I vulch, other people vulch me.

JG54_Arnie
04-04-2005, 05:48 AM
I love vluchers, they always focus on a target one the bas and dont really check for contacts in the air sometimes. Makes for nice BnZ practise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good thoughts there Ob! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JerryFodder
04-04-2005, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
JerryFodder, come fly on a warclouds where vulching is allowed and its fun:P And if you swtich sides and TK then you'll probably get banned for it. Vulching can also take skill! And it was a real life practice! By all sides!

Ever been part of a 6 B25, A20 or P38 formation and gone to attack a base? Its good fun, it takes skills and co-oridnation to get everyone back alive, the defenders have fun if they destroy the attackers and you guessed it, its just like what really happened in WW2. Also whats the best way to win a map? Fight planes in the air? No, prevent them taking off so your sides bombers can take out the target without being interferred with.

Nice guide though to combat vulchers but I don't see them as either a problem or an annoyance. I vulch, other people vulch me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Point taken, but if you have a mission to attack a base then that is a mission, not really vulching. I am talking about flyers that are just looking for easy points - it is not hard to hit anything in a base, it's a doddle. There's one i've seen that gets in a 262 and does nothing but vulch (I forget his name) with cannon. He never got in a dogfight, just ran away. If you are using rockets or bombs then it is not vulching IMO.

Before now i've found a vulcher, shot him down and then pinned him to the deck until he left the game and it's a better game for it. I've seen players turn on a vulcher of their own team because he's been asked to stop and hasn't - it was hilarious watching 5 flyers of red and blue ignoring each other just to strafe the git.

I can't stand those that attack you on approach either, full flaps and gear down after you've signalled 'rtb' and have landing lights full on. I believe in respect, I will not shoot anyone showing their lights - that to me is a signal that they are done for and will not fight. Of course i'm talking about when they have smoke bellowing from the fuselage and are near enough a home base - not those that would just want to get out of a fight.

If vulching is part of warclouds then you won't see me on it. The best arenas i've flown in are ubi.com Viljack Carriers server and European Server where the rules are those of respect at least - makes the game fun and with honour.

tralkpha
04-04-2005, 09:39 AM
my first online fb kill was a ki-84 i vulched in a p40-e iirc
i made one pass and didnt think i got any hits but as i was bugging out he crashed on takeoff

WOLFMondo
04-04-2005, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JerryFodder:
Before now i've found a vulcher, shot him down and then pinned him to the deck until he left the game and it's a better game for it. I've seen players turn on a vulcher of their own team because he's been asked to stop and hasn't - it was hilarious watching 5 flyers of red and blue ignoring each other just to strafe the git.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't sound like a server I'd like to play on. Sounds like the reason I don't play on any Ubi.com servers. You play with honour? Then why are you team killing?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JerryFodder:

I can't stand those that attack you on approach either, full flaps and gear down after you've signalled 'rtb' and have landing lights full on. I believe in respect, I will not shoot anyone showing their lights - that to me is a signal that they are done for and will not fight. Of course i'm talking about when they have smoke bellowing from the fuselage and are near enough a home base - not those that would just want to get out of a fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a matter of perspective. If I see a guy landing, with lights on, flaps down he's fair game, shouldn't be landing in a combat area anyway unless he has no other choice, they should have made sure the skies were clear before landing and he should have asked his team mates to cover him while landing. Wasting ammo on smokers with a dead engine is somthing else though.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JerryFodder:
If vulching is part of warclouds then you won't see me on it. The best arenas i've flown in are ubi.com Viljack Carriers server and European Server where the rules are those of respect at least - makes the game fun and with honour. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should try warclouds or one of the other good HL servers. Get on comms, work with other people, get some formations going, escorting bombers etc. Can be great funhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

LilHorse
04-04-2005, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JerryFodder:
I can't stand those that attack you on approach either, full flaps and gear down after you've signalled 'rtb' and have landing lights full on. I believe in respect, I will not shoot anyone showing their lights - that to me is a signal that they are done for and will not fight. Of course i'm talking about when they have smoke bellowing from the fuselage and are near enough a home base - not those that would just want to get out of a fight.

If vulching is part of warclouds then you won't see me on it. The best arenas i've flown in are ubi.com Viljack Carriers server and European Server where the rules are those of respect at least - makes the game fun and with honour. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

UHHHGGGGHHHH! How often do we have to tread this same tired path. Hey, somebody start a thread about .50 cal while we're at it!

Airbases were attacked in the war. Yes, even by fighters. The enemy was the enemy. You destroyed him on the ground, taking off, in the air, and on approach. No honour. That was something that characterized the air war in WWI for a very brief period at the beginning. And shortly afterward they resorted to the same ruthlessness that characterized the air war in WWII.

This whole "SAFE! SAFE! See? I have my lights on! My smoke is sreaming! Don't shoot me!" stuff is a bunch of nonsense.

I rarely vulch. I get vulched often. I don't have a problem with it. I'd never fly on a "no vulching" server. It just removes one more component of reality in a sim that tries as hard as it can to portray the war in as realistic terms as is within the present capabilities of the average person's PC.

"Honour" my a$$.

Yimmy
04-04-2005, 11:30 AM
Vulching is fine - I do it whenever I can... it is a game after all and that is an easy way of scoring points.

That said, I only vulch a given aircraft once, the next time they spawn I let them take off, although I may then go for a different aircraft trying to take off / land. I say this as although vulching is fine, there is nothing worse than being vulched repeatedly.

BfHeFwMe
04-04-2005, 12:05 PM
Hmmm, climbing over a fixed spot and starting from ground level. If I were on the inbound, you'd get a blind side intercept from below and a few cannon rounds in the belly. No easier target than one flying a predictable or known pattern. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

F19_Ob
04-04-2005, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
Hmmm, climbing over a fixed spot and starting from ground level. If I were on the inbound, you'd get a blind side intercept from below and a few cannon rounds in the belly. No easier target than one flying a predictable or known pattern. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually its just what u described that can be avoided with this tactic and nothing is more predictable than flying straight towards the targetarea from an airfield.
The circling gives the quick look around u and any plane with the sky as background is clearly visible and since u start from low level u se only sky around.
The climbing circle also allows u to see all hidden areas behind and below u, aswell behind and above wich u normally dont see in a straight run. Also nothing prevents the climber to change direction and go the other way or flying eights.

When I later climb towards the targetarea I go in slow S-turns to allow me the same look behind and below and above. The result is that I and my wingie very seldom are bounced. I ofcourse have a routine for that situation aswell but i'll portay that in detail on another occasion.

If there are other pilots climbing at the same time it's even more likely to spot a contact in time and the closeness to the airfield also makes it likely that the intruder is targeted by flak and that is a clear indication of enemies closeby.
In an emergency one can dive down to draw the attacker lower and enable a better position for nearby friendlies to target the enemy.

Nothing is more easy to target than a straight climb because it offers no deflection calculation problem.

Slick750
04-04-2005, 05:08 PM
All that crying against vulching is ridiculous, same for planes taking off or landing....then what you get is guys putting their wheels down 50 miles away from their airfield "I was landing!". Real men stfu and hit refly. I only attack airfields with bombs but you'll never see me yelling at some dude cause he vulched me.
The point system should be cancelled, being the cause of over the shoulder shots and spawn killing.

gates123
04-04-2005, 05:14 PM
9 out of 10 vulchers are bad pilots and can't hit a moving target. Hence why they vulch.

Atomic_Marten
04-04-2005, 05:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slick750:
All that crying against vulching is ridiculous, same for planes taking off or landing....then what you get is guys putting their wheels down 50 miles away from their airfield "I was landing!". <span class="ev_code_RED">Real men stfu and hit refly</span>. I only attack airfields with bombs but you'll never see me yelling at some dude cause he vulched me.
The point system should be cancelled, being the cause of over the shoulder shots and spawn killing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'n not far from that opinion either. While I get vulched zillion times, and was very angry about it, I never do that myself. Until I really run outta nerves one time.. few guys were vulching our runway and stuff and they get me (always feel like lead magnet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

After that I load FAB250 on my P39 and head directly to their base followed by pair of P40s. We beat them totally downing them several times.. Oh boy I was happy like little pig in the mud.

Generally, if I notice that some behaviour is toleratesd on certain server, I will go for it. And from now on, will always try to shot down the landing aircraft. Gee, I can't remember *ONE* time when I was 'spared' by enemy fighters in such position.

Few online recent events: Moments ago while playing on server, I was landing in the field with G14 (engine dead - I turned nav lights on) and Spit and P51 repedeatly circled and shoot at me. After that, I succesfully landed and bailed..
Moments later I spawned just to see B25 in front of me at 300m. I didn't even turned my engine on. Did he fire on me? Of course.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
04-04-2005, 08:20 PM
I circle to at least 1500m as standard operating procedure. Unless there are bandits circling above your base its simple the logical and sensible thing to do. I will never understand the people who take off and head immediately for the enemy base.

HellToupee
04-04-2005, 09:49 PM
one of the most enjoyable things is forming up and proceeding to pin down an enemy airfield in mass. Shoot up all the AA, prevent any getting in the air lotas fun. Was what i liked about aces high it wasnt shooting some boring static targets it was about taking enemies airfields, smashing them up and then taking them over, not realistic but gameplay wise loads of fun.

Getting shot down on landing or take off who cares takes 2 seconds to hit refly. All that so called "honerable" behavour is just boring if i try to land with enemies around i deserve to be shot down.

F19_Orheim
04-05-2005, 10:57 AM
just follow the server's rules. If it is no allowed, then don't, if it is - do!

Freelancer-1
04-06-2005, 01:33 AM
Although I have have played very little online, I have been playing the off line campaigns for years.

An integral part of these campaigns is straffing enemy airfields(or being straffed). As this seemed to be a normal tactic in the real WWII theater, then why complain about in the game?

The idea was to win and come home alive, so to me vulching seems to be a normal thing to do.

F19_Ob
04-06-2005, 02:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Although I have have played very little online, I have been playing the off line campaigns for years.

An integral part of these campaigns is straffing enemy airfields(or being straffed). As this seemed to be a normal tactic in the real WWII theater, then why complain about in the game?

The idea was to win and come home alive, so to me vulching seems to be a normal thing to do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right..it happened all the time.

But it is the serverkeeper that decides if vulching is allowed or not on his/her server and that should be respected.
Many like me want vulching to be allowed though and think its a fun and interesting event.
In my case I prefer to hunt vulchers but may vulch in inferior planes when I cant leave or if heavily outnumbered on the server.

I also belive many people are ok with vulching but not when its done in a bad manner.
Some vulchers are "spawncampers". The term comes from other games and mean that u stay over one spot and shoot spawning planes.
If there is only one its no real problem but two or more is, especially if they use their lights to keep track of and not mix eachother up with enemyfighters over long distances.
Thats why its important to have more than one airfield to takeoff from.
----------------------------------
Sometimes I have made airfield attacks with a couple of mates in il-2's but the airfield then had not just better planes taking off it also had fighters stepped up to 2000m. So we were outnumbered by more than the double and outnumbered on the server.
This is ofcourse very different from what the "dissliked" vulchers do.
I've had many interesting and rewarding fights with vulchers and been able to survive attacks and even shoot the vulchers down on many occasions.

---------------------

One thing must be said though. Even goodnatured vulchers may do mistakes like anyone else.
Thus in the heat of combat and outnumbered one my shoot at every enemy and perhaps didnt notice that a plane just spawned.
There is a fine line when to shoot or not and it may vary with the situation.

Generally I think if it's an inferior fighter or bomber who's doing the vulching I'll grant him a greater range of allowance. But thats me.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

strykablue
04-06-2005, 02:30 AM
Come on guys!!!!!
Vulching is a fact of life like the others say above. Its no different than team flying as a squad, diving down from height, having a wingman or shooting a crippled plan. Fair go, if your in the air and carrying weapons you're a target. Period.
As for landing lights....... well I mean 'don't shoot me I'm landing' so what..come on. we're getting soft here.
Any then what about shooting parachutes, planes on the ground, unarmed transport planes, outnumbered planes..where does it stop. As they say above, it's war and a fair fight is bad planning!!!
I would say though that if someone is getting pissed off by being vulched they might leave the game and then there's no fun.

WOLFMondo
04-06-2005, 03:36 AM
Vulching on a unorganised server with no mission other than to dogfight is completely different to vulching on a server like Warclouds or Greatgreen where there is organised defense and comms.

Fish and I have a particular method of vulching on 1 particular map on WC which is tactically sound and we both 99% of the time live and get home. That takes planning and a little skill as well as some luck that we don't get hit by AA but it certainly affects the outcome of the map as it ties up planes on the ground and people on comms are called into defend the base. By the time they get there were already back at 3000m and no where near the base we attacked.

Vulching like that is no different to what the RAF did to the Germans throughout the war in pairs of Spitfire or Tempests and what the Germans did to the RAF in FW190's and Me262's. Its fun, exciting, gratifying, helps the team and done correctly looses no pilots and no planes.

To those that whine about vulching is get on comms and get help, work as a team and let your buddies know about the vulchers. Most of all, vulch back (server rules permitting) and keep the enemy planes on the ground.

triggerhappyfin
04-06-2005, 04:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Vulching on a unorganised server with no mission other than to dogfight is completely different to vulching on a server like Warclouds or Greatgreen where there is organised defense and comms.

Fish and I have <span class="ev_code_RED">a particular method of vulching on 1 particular map on WC which is tactically sound and we both 99% of the time live and get home. That takes planning and a little skill as well as some luck that we don't get hit by AA but it certainly affects the outcome of the map as it ties up planes on the ground and people on comms are called into defend the base.</span> By the time they get there were already back at 3000m and no where near the base we attacked.

Vulching like that is no different to what the RAF did to the Germans throughout the war in pairs of Spitfire or Tempests and what the Germans did to the RAF in FW190's and Me262's. Its fun, exciting, gratifying, helps the team and done correctly looses no pilots and no planes.

To those that whine about vulching is get on comms and get help, work as a team and let your buddies know about the vulchers. Most of all, vulch back (server rules permitting) and keep the enemy planes on the ground. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vulching ads something to online gameplay and is in my opinion a part of it and nothing to complain about - DEAL WITH IT!

deathhamster
04-06-2005, 05:22 AM
Here's a solution to all those vulchers out their, get a CAP going! You only need two fighters orbitting the airfield to provide cover for those taking off and landing and you can cycle different players to ensure everyone gets to fight. This is what happened historically and it only makes sense not to leave your base unprotected

WOLFMondo
04-06-2005, 06:17 AM
One thing, why are vulchers called vulchers? Vulchers hang around dead or dying wildlife waiting to pick the bones of whats left.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:

Vulching ads something to online gameplay and is in my opinion a part of it and nothing to complain about - DEAL WITH IT! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly does and the man you quote in your sig is a great example of a fighter pilot who used to to airfield attacks regularly for 3 long years in both Spitfires and Tempest V's along with Typhoons, Hurricanes, beaufighters. Not to mention what the USAAF P47's were doing in 44/45 and of operation bodenplate which was an uber vulching mission.

Vulchers unite!...the good ones anyway.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-06-2005, 07:26 AM
I just hate getting blind-sided during my initial spawn into the server. Other than that...it's part of the game and following some type of plan (whether you take ob's advice or not) is simply a good idea.


TB

triggerhappyfin
04-06-2005, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
One thing, why are vulchers called vulchers? Vulchers hang around dead or dying wildlife waiting to pick the bones of whats left.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:

Vulching ads something to online gameplay and is in my opinion a part of it and nothing to complain about - DEAL WITH IT! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly does and the man you quote in your sig is a great example of a fighter pilot who used to to airfield attacks regularly for 3 long years in both Spitfires and Tempest V's along with Typhoons, Hurricanes, beaufighters. Not to mention what the USAAF P47's were doing in 44/45 and of operation bodenplate which was an uber vulching mission.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Vulchers unite!...the good ones anyway.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif</span>QUOTE]

I´m in...anyone else?