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View Full Version : BoB II WoV has set the Bar for BoB SoW!!!



Charlie901
04-15-2007, 09:45 PM
Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory:

In-Game Features:



New DirectX 9 technology

The "In Cockpit" Experience

Clickable cockpits for the ultimate flying experience

Realistic starting procedures via mouse

Built-in native track-IR support with the latest 6 degrees of freedom support, including moving your head forward, backwards, left, right, up and down

Lift your head for a more, over-the-nose view

Lean out the window while taxiing

Keep your eyes fixed on the target

The industry's best padlocking system

The industry's most natural g-force movements

The Ultimate Dynamic Campaign

Authentic re-creation of the entire Battle of Britain campaign

Experience epic battles with hundreds of aircraft in the air

Thousands of aircraft are tracked and combat ready from their historical airfields. Knocking out enemy airfields hurts the enemy's ability to launch aircraft from those specific airfields.

Authentic radar and spotting system

British coastal radar network spots planes, reports data to central command, aircraft readiness is checked at nearby airfields and interceptors are appropriately vectored

Damaged radar systems create "outages" or "holes" in the defensive screen

Human spotters exist all over the British countryside, and their ability to spot is affected by weather conditions

The entire war machine, down to just a single building is modeled

Be the supreme commander or just be the pilot

"RealWeather" Technology

Both historical and dynamic weather conditions exist throughout the theater

Building storm fronts with towering storm heads

Realistic weather forecasting

Artificial Intelligence

Computer piloted airplanes fly with the same performance and flight characteristics the player flies with, for a precise, historically accurate offline experience

"RealPilot" Artificial Intelligence Technology means enemy aircraft have the same limitations the player has

Both the player and the enemy can use the clouds for safety and cover

Study and exploit the enemy's weaknesses with charts included in the printed pilot's manual

Enemy aircraft have the same characteristics and performance as the player's aircraft, including actual joystick movements

Realistic Sound

Authentic engine sounds and behavior, inside and out

Machineguns, explosions, hits, and flack fill the battlefield

Negative g stalls, sputtering, engine overheating

Open the canopy and hear the difference

Complex engine management including prop-pitch, mixture, and engine temperature

Unprecedented Visual Effects

Accurately modeled visual effects create the ultimate battlefield experience

Authentic bomb blasts in accordance to military test data, including realistic fireball size / duration, shockwaves, and dirt blasts

Realistic gun-hits on aircraft, ground targets, land, and water

Towering clouds of black smoke cover the battlefield for the entire flight

Be a part of hundreds of bombers as countless bombs reign down on targets below

Communications

Immersive, powerful, and historical command and control on the ground and in the air

Command examples

"Target bombers"

"Vector me to nearest airfield"

"Tower, what is the wind at altitude?"



The completely DYNAMIC SP Campaign, Clickable Pits and Realtime weather fronts and formations, hundreds of A/C in the air at once as well as A.I. that can't see through clouds...!!!

This sim sounds amazing, especially with the lastest patches.

This sim has really "Set the bar"!

Oleg's BoB has alot of competition here....

Charlie901
04-15-2007, 09:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory:

In-Game Features:



New DirectX 9 technology

The "In Cockpit" Experience

Clickable cockpits for the ultimate flying experience

Realistic starting procedures via mouse

Built-in native track-IR support with the latest 6 degrees of freedom support, including moving your head forward, backwards, left, right, up and down

Lift your head for a more, over-the-nose view

Lean out the window while taxiing

Keep your eyes fixed on the target

The industry's best padlocking system

The industry's most natural g-force movements

The Ultimate Dynamic Campaign

Authentic re-creation of the entire Battle of Britain campaign

Experience epic battles with hundreds of aircraft in the air

Thousands of aircraft are tracked and combat ready from their historical airfields. Knocking out enemy airfields hurts the enemy's ability to launch aircraft from those specific airfields.

Authentic radar and spotting system

British coastal radar network spots planes, reports data to central command, aircraft readiness is checked at nearby airfields and interceptors are appropriately vectored

Damaged radar systems create "outages" or "holes" in the defensive screen

Human spotters exist all over the British countryside, and their ability to spot is affected by weather conditions

The entire war machine, down to just a single building is modeled

Be the supreme commander or just be the pilot

"RealWeather" Technology

Both historical and dynamic weather conditions exist throughout the theater

Building storm fronts with towering storm heads

Realistic weather forecasting

Artificial Intelligence

Computer piloted airplanes fly with the same performance and flight characteristics the player flies with, for a precise, historically accurate offline experience

"RealPilot" Artificial Intelligence Technology means enemy aircraft have the same limitations the player has

Both the player and the enemy can use the clouds for safety and cover

Study and exploit the enemy's weaknesses with charts included in the printed pilot's manual

Enemy aircraft have the same characteristics and performance as the player's aircraft, including actual joystick movements

Realistic Sound

Authentic engine sounds and behavior, inside and out

Machineguns, explosions, hits, and flack fill the battlefield

Negative g stalls, sputtering, engine overheating

Open the canopy and hear the difference

Complex engine management including prop-pitch, mixture, and engine temperature

Unprecedented Visual Effects

Accurately modeled visual effects create the ultimate battlefield experience

Authentic bomb blasts in accordance to military test data, including realistic fireball size / duration, shockwaves, and dirt blasts

Realistic gun-hits on aircraft, ground targets, land, and water

Towering clouds of black smoke cover the battlefield for the entire flight

Be a part of hundreds of bombers as countless bombs reign down on targets below

Communications

Immersive, powerful, and historical command and control on the ground and in the air

Command examples

"Target bombers"

"Vector me to nearest airfield"

"Tower, what is the wind at altitude?"
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The completely DYNAMIC SP Campaign, Clickable Pits and Realtime weather fronts and formations, hundreds of A/C in the air at once as well as A.I. that can't see through clouds...!!!

This sim sounds amazing, especially with the lastest patches.

This sim has really "Set the bar"!

Oleg's BoB has alot of competition here....

papotex
04-15-2007, 10:06 PM
are some of these features new with a resently released patch?

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-15-2007, 10:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"Set the bar"! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardly. That would be this very sim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg's BoB has alot of competition here </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not even close.

BoB WoV is a good sim and does some things well but these statments are borderline ridiculous. Just my opinion.

badatit
04-15-2007, 10:17 PM
You forgot multiplayer.

Oh yeah, that's right...it dosent support multiplayer...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has a cool tactical/stratagy map.
It has Spits.
It has 109's.
It supports track IR.
It dosent hold a candle to IL2.
It got uninstalled.

BfHeFwMe
04-15-2007, 10:55 PM
Well, it does currently set the bar for the Battle of Britain. 1946 doesn't do BoB very well, too much stuff missing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Two things lacking, tactical ground war, and online capability. For solo play it looks the way to go, happy for those guy getting some too!

Nimits
04-15-2007, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You forgot multiplayer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Almost never play multiplary . . .

Actually, my only real complaint with BOBII: WOV is that its campaign is TOO "dynamic;" I do not like having to play general in a flight sim, but there no pilot career mode. If there was a way to just play as a pilot (and get promotions and medals, etc. as in 1946) while the AI ran the grand campaign in the background, well, that would be my ideal BoB sim.

LEXX_Luthor
04-15-2007, 11:55 PM
Charlie:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The completely DYNAMIC SP Campaign, Clickable Pits.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nap. Click Cockpits(tm) are not a wise feature for combat flight sims, well maybe for some things like landing gear or fuel tank selection. For PeaceTime civil sims, sure why not? No bar here, as Oleg has stated the cc feature does not benefit enough customers to be worth coding for (at least in a combat sim), or that was my understanding anyways, and I can see the point. WW2 pilots often flew by feeling for the controls, and not looking at them. Here, the most realistic(tm) modelling of pilot/panel interface would be the humble keyboard.

Hkuusela
04-16-2007, 12:25 AM
Charlie901, you've got some guts man! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I don't think WoV has set the bar for SoW. The reason is, that based on my experience on IL-2 and VoW, SoW will be completely different sim from VoW. Just like IL-2 is diffenrent from WoV. It's not a question which is better really, since I don't think they even compete against each other, they are so different.

IL-2 is about visual delight and online play. Some people like the FM, some don't. FM's can be argued forever and I have neither the will nor the experience to get into it. WoV is about overall experience in offline play, the feel of being there and good AI.

I don't think a high jumper can set the bar for a pole vaulter.

DKoor
04-16-2007, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
BoB WoV is a good sim and does some things well but these statments are borderline ridiculous. Just my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're not the only one. BoB WoV is just a remake of an old sim, and it is not in any kind of serious competition with IL-2 series. Even original IL-2 is eons ahead.

About campaign in WoV... I have nothing that good to say about it. It's complicated like the rest of the game... too complicated really. Nimits said it very well - there is no "pilot" (promotions, career etc.) in single player offline mode.

I bet that Charlie hasn't even played that game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Chivas
04-16-2007, 12:43 AM
I like BOB WOV it has some good moments but if SOW BOB isn't significantly better in every catagory I will be completely Shocked/waved. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I just don't see how the old Rowan engine can compete.

leitmotiv
04-16-2007, 01:09 AM
I completely agree. After the new (2.06) patch, and after the other patches intended for the sim, it will be manifestly better than IL-2. IL-2 will still have online play but the designers are considering online for BOB2. It will give the Maddox BOB a run for its money, that's for sure, especially if it is not done very well like PAC FIGHTERS wasn't done very well. One thing BOB2 has going for it is that it is a comprehensive, detailed sim of the BOB. No ground attack? Apparently some players have not been using the Ju 87, Bf 110C-4/B, and Bf 109E-4/B. Unlike the absolutely phony air/sea interaction in Maddox, you have realistic Channel convoys in BOB2.

The sim which may prove to be the biggest threat to the Maddox BOB may be KNIGHTS OF THE SKY. It is looking to be INCREDIBLE.

HellToupee
04-16-2007, 02:27 AM
i tried out bob2:wov never really liked it all that much interface and gfx made it seem dated as well, IMO i can see bob sow being alot better.

jasonbirder
04-16-2007, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Click Cockpits(tm) are not a wise feature for combat flight sims, well maybe for some things like landing gear or fuel tank selection. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They seem good enough to be used in Falcon 4.0 and wise enough to implement in the latest release of LOMAC (Black Shark) when it wasn't implemented in the original game...
The reason we don't have them in Il2 is it decided not to bother implementing any controls more complicated than "go" and "fire" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
A sad omission really!

LEXX_Luthor
04-16-2007, 02:43 AM
jason:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They seem good enough to be used in Falcon 4.0 and wise enough to implement in the latest release of LOMAC (Black Shark) when it wasn't implemented in the original game... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I could see that. I'd guess post-modern superHUDjet pilots *need* to look at the various computer screens to see which computer button they are about to push, as the tiny identical looking buttons seem equally spaced about the computer screens. That would be well modelled with mouse clicking on the PC virtual cockpit. WW2 pilots felt and pushed or pulled mechanical controls with their hands while keeping eye on the nearby target, as there was not much BVR back then, for the most part (radar intercept may be an exception, not sure).

More importantly for developing WW2 combat flight sims, the humble keyboard more realistically models the World War 2 pilot/panel interface.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

EURO_Snoopy
04-16-2007, 03:51 AM
Why would KOTS be a 'rival' to SOW? two different time periods.

As for BOBii setting the bar for SOW well, not knocking BOBII but this is the first time I have seen community expectations set so low. At least let SOW see the light of day before you start knocking it!

Full credit to Shockwave but BOBII is very old technology updated, no disguising that fact, there are flaws in both sims but IL-2 leads by a long way.

Competition is a great thing but I don't know why people try to set up different/opposing camps of this sim over that sim, support the genre and buy them all, they're cheap enough.

leitmotiv
04-16-2007, 04:05 AM
If Oleg makes a fudge of BOB, like he did with PAC FIGHTERS, BOB2 will look very good. Why will KNIGHTS be competition for Oleg? Because it looks to be a really terrific design, and most people gravitate to great designs, don't they? Certainly there was no ready made market for an Eastern Front flight sim in 2001. IL-2 created its own market. After PAC FIGHTERS, I am very wary of the Maddox team.

XyZspineZyX
04-16-2007, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:

New DirectX 9 technology
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what's so new about that?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
The "In Cockpit" Experience
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as opposed to any other sim's "out of the cockpit experience"? This is hype

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Clickable cockpits for the ultimate flying experience
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% opinion, and how does clicking a cockpit enhance flight versus keystrokes?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic starting procedures via mouse
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Valid point

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Built-in native track-IR support with the latest 6 degrees of freedom support, including moving your head forward, backwards, left, right, up and down </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sow:BoB will not have this? Says who?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Lift your head for a more, over-the-nose view
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Lift my head"? My neck doesn't telescope. Anyway, this is the same point as the last one, about 6dof. This "feature" is not seperate from their claims about 6dof. It's fluff, they already made this calaim when they listed "moving your head forward, backwards, left, right, up and down"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Lean out the window while taxiing
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

again, just another 6dof feature they already bragged about

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Keep your eyes fixed on the target
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another re-iteration of saying they have TiR support. A lot of these "features" they list are redundant

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
The industry's best padlocking system
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Says who? 100% opinion


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
The industry's most natural g-force movements
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

says who? 100% opinion

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
The Ultimate Dynamic Campaign
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

fantasy-land. The word "ultimate" by definition, means "the best bar none". They eman to tell me that no dynamic campaign has ever been better, OK fine, they need to prove that but it could eb true, but they are also saying this dynamic campaign is the best of any future dynamic campaigns. I'd like to get that promise in writing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Authentic re-creation of the entire Battle of Britain campaign
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a feature, this is rather "necessary" if the sim is about the BoB

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Experience epic battles with hundreds of aircraft in the air

Thousands of aircraft are tracked and combat ready from their historical airfields. Knocking out enemy airfields hurts the enemy's ability to launch aircraft from those specific airfields.

Authentic radar and spotting system

British coastal radar network spots planes, reports data to central command, aircraft readiness is checked at nearby airfields and interceptors are appropriately vectored

Damaged radar systems create "outages" or "holes" in the defensive screen

Human spotters exist all over the British countryside, and their ability to spot is affected by weather conditions

The entire war machine, down to just a single building is modeled
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of these things are redundant, like half of this list. "Recreations of the entire Battle of Britain" would by necessity include all these things, and more

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Be the supreme commander or just be the pilot
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly like Sow:BoB

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
"RealWeather" Technology
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice name for the weather engine. But that doesn't prove that the weather is accurate, or that SoW:BoB's will be inferior. It's a nice name, though


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Both historical and dynamic weather conditions exist throughout the theater


Building storm fronts with towering storm heads
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Redundant claims, again. they have already claimed this, but claiming it again makes the list of features long and impressive, just like my...nevermind


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic weather forecasting
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting! Would like to see that, nice feature. Hopefully some of it is innaccurate, just like real life


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Artificial Intelligence

Computer piloted airplanes fly with the same performance and flight characteristics the player flies with, for a precise, historically accurate offline experience
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have that now. How the Ai uses the model is another thing entirely, which brings us to...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
"RealPilot" Artificial Intelligence Technology means enemy aircraft have the same limitations the player has
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bullshht claim. The Ai does not have the same limitations, the AI doesn't have human intelligence, it's AI. Jeez! This is a bogus and purposefully misleading claim. 100% bull

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Both the player and the enemy can use the clouds for safety and cover
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just like SoW:BoB


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Study and exploit the enemy's weaknesses with charts included in the printed pilot's manual
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

manual, nice. But wait wait wait...I thoiught the AI was incredibly life-like in this sim...now I can defeat them by exploiting weaknesses I can see on a chart!?!?! Which is it? Great human-like AI, or by-the-book AI? Another misleading feature


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Enemy aircraft have the same characteristics and performance as the player's aircraft, including actual joystick movements
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They have already listed this feature. This is anothe redundant bit of padding to make a long list

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic Sound

Authentic engine sounds and behavior, inside and out

Machineguns, explosions, hits, and flack fill the battlefield
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice features

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Negative g stalls, sputtering, engine overheating
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, yes, it is a flight sim...we have these features in FB/PF

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Open the canopy and hear the difference
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should be under "sound"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Complex engine management including prop-pitch, mixture, and engine temperature
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FB/PF has these features
Unprecedented Visual Effects

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Accurately modeled visual effects create the ultimate battlefield experience
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AGAIN with the "Ultimate" claims. Do these people know what words mean?!?!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Authentic bomb blasts in accordance to military test data, including realistic fireball size / duration, shockwaves, and dirt blasts
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good. Sow:BoB won't have this? Says who?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic gun-hits on aircraft, ground targets, land, and water
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sow:BoB won't feature this? says who?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Towering clouds of black smoke cover the battlefield for the entire flight
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sow:BoB won;t have this? Says who?


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Be a part of hundreds of bombers as countless bombs reign down on targets below
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can do this in a FB/PF right now


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Communications

Immersive, powerful, and historical command and control on the ground and in the air

Command examples

"Target bombers"

"Vector me to nearest airfield"

"Tower, what is the wind at altitude?"
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice features

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
The completely DYNAMIC SP Campaign, Clickable Pits and Realtime weather fronts and formations, hundreds of A/C in the air at once as well as A.I. that can't see through clouds...!!!

This sim sounds amazing, especially with the lastest patches.

This sim has really "Set the bar"!

Oleg's BoB has alot of competition here.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you played BoBII, Charlie? I think you haven't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Because of this:

"This sim sounds amazing"

You have only read about it...and you have only read about SoW:BoB

I'm sorry, but your opinions on this matter are by necessity under-informed, because you have no experience with either sim. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with your misinformed opinion

p-11.cAce
04-16-2007, 06:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The reason we don't have them in Il2 is it decided not to bother implementing any controls more complicated than "go" and "fire" Wink
A sad omission really! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm..sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
My mapped controls (off the top of my head)
flaps
gear
engine select
engine toggle
mixture
boost
prop pitch
aileron trim
rudder trim
elevator trim
prop feather
fire extinguisher
gunpods
drop tank release
ptt
canopy open/close
bail out
fire weapon 1
fire weapon 2
fire weapon 3
fire weapon 4
fire weapon 1&2
fire gunpods
bombsight angle
bombsight speed
bombsight altitude
bomsight drift
level stabalizer
autopilot
bombsight automation
map
icons
throttle
rudder pedals

Treetop64
04-16-2007, 07:18 AM
Just adding another car to the train here, Charlie, but your take on WoV is way over-optimistic. WoV - after some badly needed remedial patches - has become a decent sim in it's own right, but it's cheap plastic when compared to IL-2 1946, not to mention SoW when it's finally released.

Bearcat99
04-16-2007, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The reason we don't have them in Il2 is it decided not to bother implementing any controls more complicated than "go" and "fire" Wink
A sad omission really! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm..sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
My mapped controls (off the top of my head)
flaps
gear
engine select
engine toggle
mixture
boost
prop pitch
aileron trim
rudder trim
elevator trim
prop feather
fire extinguisher
gunpods
drop tank release
ptt
canopy open/close
bail out
fire weapon 1
fire weapon 2
fire weapon 3
fire weapon 4
fire weapon 1&2
fire gunpods
bombsight angle
bombsight speed
bombsight altitude
bomsight drift
level stabalizer
autopilot
bombsight automation
map
icons
throttle
rudder pedals </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You probably forgot
Landuing Lights
Nav Lights
Cockpit Lights
Tail Hook
Supercharger
.... and something else we both may have forgotten.

I dont have WoV BoB.. from what I saw of it it was a step backwards... this from IL2... much less BoB... Personally I think any one who harbors tries to conmpare BoB to anything yet is only showing their silliness. Like Snoop said.. the sim isnt out yet.... ahnd it is counting the chickens berfore the egg hatches but as far as today goes..... WOV may do somethings bettewr than 46... but as an overall package there is nothing that can really compete with this series. Not that I know of anyway.

leitmotiv
04-16-2007, 07:49 AM
Practically anything short of CFS3 which has 6 DOF will offer a superior immersion/play experience to the old dog IL-2 except to the online crowd which has their own particular needs. BOB2 has a published program of continual improvement promised which puts it in a different category from IL-2 which is officially dead and gone.

Hkuusela
04-16-2007, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Built-in native track-IR support with the latest 6 degrees of freedom support, including moving your head forward, backwards, left, right, up and down </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sow:BoB will not have this? Says who? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nobody, at least not Charlie.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Lean out the window while taxiing
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

again, just another 6dof feature they already bragged about </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it isn't. You don't need TIR to lean out the window, so maybe you should know something about the things you comment.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Authentic re-creation of the entire Battle of Britain campaign </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a feature, this is rather "necessary" if the sim is about the BoB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's reassuring, because now we know, that SoW will be an authentic re-creation of BoB. It has to, it's about BoB after all!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Experience epic battles with hundreds of aircraft in the air

Thousands of aircraft are tracked and combat ready from their historical airfields. Knocking out enemy airfields hurts the enemy's ability to launch aircraft from those specific airfields.

Authentic radar and spotting system

British coastal radar network spots planes, reports data to central command, aircraft readiness is checked at nearby airfields and interceptors are appropriately vectored

Damaged radar systems create "outages" or "holes" in the defensive screen

Human spotters exist all over the British countryside, and their ability to spot is affected by weather conditions

The entire war machine, down to just a single building is modeled
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of these things are redundant, like half of this list. "Recreations of the entire Battle of Britain" would by necessity include all these things, and more </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And everybody naturally knows all this, so it is needless to tell about it...? Sigh...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic weather forecasting
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting! Would like to see that, nice feature. Hopefully some of it is innaccurate, just like real life </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You haven't seen it, so you're commenting something you know nothing about. But nice comment anyhow. Makes YOUR list longer...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Artificial Intelligence

Computer piloted airplanes fly with the same performance and flight characteristics the player flies with, for a precise, historically accurate offline experience
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have that now. How the Ai uses the model is another thing entirely, which brings us to... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So what you're saying is, that opponent flying it's plane perfectly is historically accurate? Now THAT is interesting! Interesting and total BS...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
"RealPilot" Artificial Intelligence Technology means enemy aircraft have the same limitations the player has
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bullshht claim. The Ai does not have the same limitations, the AI doesn't have human intelligence, it's AI. Jeez! This is a bogus and purposefully misleading claim. 100% bull </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jeez! So anything to imply the game, any game, is realistic, would be purposefully misleading? It can't be, it's a game!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Study and exploit the enemy's weaknesses with charts included in the printed pilot's manual
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

manual, nice. But wait wait wait...I thoiught the AI was incredibly life-like in this sim...now I can defeat them by exploiting weaknesses I can see on a chart!?!?! Which is it? Great human-like AI, or by-the-book AI? Another misleading feature </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Umm... Don't you think it could have something to do with the A/C characteristics, which, btw, can be, to some extent, written down? The A/C is included in "the enemy", don't you think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Open the canopy and hear the difference
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should be under "sound" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is, if you bother to look...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Authentic bomb blasts in accordance to military test data, including realistic fireball size / duration, shockwaves, and dirt blasts
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Sounds good. Sow:BoB won't have this? Says who? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nobody, at least not Charlie.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic gun-hits on aircraft, ground targets, land, and water
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Sow:BoB won't feature this? says who? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nobody, at least not Charlie.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Towering clouds of black smoke cover the battlefield for the entire flight
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sow:BoB won;t have this? Says who? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nobody, at least not Charlie.

It seems to me that the one not understanding words is not the Shockwave team. Setting the bar and hopping over it are two different things. Si if WoV has set the bar (which I don't think it has, as I said earlier) it isn't saying that SoW can't top it.

p-11.cAce
04-16-2007, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If thats true then why are you still here? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

ICDP
04-16-2007, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I dont have WoV BoB.. from what I saw of it it was a step backwards... this from IL2... much less BoB... Personally I think any one who harbors tries to conmpare BoB to anything yet is only showing their silliness. Like Snoop said.. the sim isnt out yet.... ahnd it is counting the chickens berfore the egg hatches but as far as today goes..... WOV may do somethings bettewr than 46... but as an overall package there is nothing that can really compete with this series. Not that I know of anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you possibly know if IL2 is better than BoB WoV if you have never tried it? You state nothing you know of can compete with IL2 1946 yet have never tried the other main WWII sim available. It is impossible to form any valid opinion on software without actually trying it. Unless you have flown in the campaigns or against the excellent AI (which is overall far superior to the AI in 1946) your opinion on how poor the sim is compared to 1946 is totally invalid. If you haven't tried the sim then you can't form an opinion on it, you can only guess and guesses do no an opinion make.

If you refuse to try the sim due to some irrational belief that noone other than 1C can do a flightsim justice then I you really are giving 1C far too much credit. I suggest you get the sim, patch it upto the new 2.05 or 2.06 available very soon and give it a try. If you have never or never will give the sim a try then you really should stop putting forward your opinion as if it anything other than guesswork.

The truth is both games/sims have their strong points and both of them are very good in their own rights. IMHO having played both sims, added to the fact that I don't like online makes BoBII WoV a far superior experience.

rnzoli
04-16-2007, 10:28 AM
BoB Bob2, BobII, BOB, SoW WoV Wow! Tow...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif Why all those very similar abbreviations!? Am I the only one who gets dizzy around here? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif The only 2 things I can understand in the above posts are
1) IL-2
2) KOTS.

Lucius_Esox
04-16-2007, 10:32 AM
I have WOV and think it's a great game. I have a rig capable of running it pretty much maxed out.

So different from IL2. I would love a mix of the two games. One thing for me at least that stands out between the two is the feel of flying in IL2.. WOV FM feels positively clunky in comparison, to me at least.. !!

It could also be described as a little anal I suppose,,,but then hey I love F4 as well.

danjama
04-16-2007, 10:46 AM
Although what i'm gonna say has been said already, i'll still give my input.

I used to fly online with il2 exclusive, but then i bought BoB2WoV out of interest. I installed it, and had fun playing with the clicky cockpits trying to improve my takeoff times and also messed around a bit with some interceptions, but then night came and i went to online flying and forgot that i even bought BoB2..

However due to change in circumstances about 8 months ago, i could no longer fly online. It was here that i went about downloading and installing static campaigns for il2 that had been made by members of the community (much appreciation to all of you) only to be dissapointed by the performance of the Ai and the many other offline letdowns in il2.

Then one day as i closed il2 in disapointment yet again, there on my desktop i noticed the BoBWoV roundel icon on the desktop. Opening the game i discovered all of its joys and played it for about 2 hours that afternoon. When i got in that evening i played again until very late, and enjoyed it very much. It was refreshing after years of il2. Understand, i missed the joys of il2 online, the fantastic il2 FM's, and the crazy amount of realistically recreated aircraft available, but BoB was a breath of fresh air. It has its faults, but there is not any reason why any of us should not give it a go. It goes great next to il2, i just needed a chance to discover it. When i do get back online, i'll still fly BoBWoV in my spare time, because it's worth my time. It's good fun.

I cant wait for SOWBOB, but BoB2 is a good stand in until then, and even when that does come, i think i will still appreciate BoBWoV and give it some time of my day. WoV is an interesting experience at least, and an enjoyable one at best.

Just for the record i prefer the "feeling" of il2, but BoB2 makes up for it's sometimes (if at all) lacking FM's, by having great, immersive offline play, and many good times to be had. An applaudable effort from Shockwave, who clearly care about their product.

SaQSoN
04-16-2007, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic starting procedures via mouse
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Valid point </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Starting any engine, on any aircraft with the same 4 key strokes instead of 1 (in FB) - may be more complex, but definitely not more realstic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding the clickable cockpits. If a real life WWII pilot had one hand with one non-flexible hook-like finger on it - then the clickable cockpit would be realistic. Otherwise - it's not. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And, one more thing: you may find some of the new features of BoBII v2.x quite familiar from other in-development game feature list. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And you still ask, why Oleg and Ubi don't give you an updates?

He-he. Should I be on their place, I would hold most of the SoW features in absolute secrecy unitl release. Well, which they do, obviously.

crazyivan1970
04-16-2007, 11:11 AM
I love threads like that, they are entertaining http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You dont want to know my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

crazyivan1970
04-16-2007, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
I would hold most of the SoW features in absolute secrecy unitl release. Well, which they do, obviously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldnt agree more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

slipBall
04-16-2007, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
I would hold most of the SoW features in absolute secrecy unitl release. Well, which they do, obviously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldnt agree more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Do you know when the release for SOW?

Just reply with a smiley face that would fit your answer

Chivas
04-16-2007, 11:29 AM
I've been trying to think of things BOB WOV does better than IL-2 1946, and all I can think of is it has a BOB map, good English voice pack, and 6DOF. Consequently its the only viable BOB flight sim on the market. It does alot of things very well and should be on anyones hard drive that enjoys flying in the Battle of Britain. SOW BOB should complete eclipse WOV other than the war game campaign that I'm not a fan of anyway. I much prefer a more personal campaign.

~Salute~
Chivas

TheGozr
04-16-2007, 11:43 AM
Interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py1PQfYnClc

Brownba
04-16-2007, 11:44 AM
I for one think BoB SoW better be far different from IL2 '46 or it won't find a place on my hard drive now that I have BoB WoV.

I only play off-line so multiplayer isn't a drawback for me, however it seems to be the way of the future.

BoB WoV is more immersive to me than any of the IL2 series. I simply can't stand the the hollywood damage in IL2 - wings coming off at the drop of a hat, aircraft literally cut in two. The tracers look more like star wars than any of the real gun cam films available for all to see at google or youtube. The IL2 AI seems to only turn in circle after circle or just fly straight until every last one is shot down.

So yes, BoB WoV has set the bar for me.

crazyivan1970
04-16-2007, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:
I simply can't stand the the hollywood damage in IL2 - wings coming off at the drop of a hat, aircraft literally cut in two. The tracers look more like star wars than any of the real gun cam films available for all to see at google or youtube. The IL2 AI seems to only turn in circle after circle or just fly straight until every last one is shot down.

So yes, BoB WoV has set the bar for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is strange statement...

TheGozr
04-16-2007, 11:56 AM
Well Dear Saqson, somewhere i think that it doesn't matter the quantity of button the virtual pilot have to press to turn engine on but instead what would be more realistic in some ways is how the plane animation,effects and sounds are. The time it takes the details of a good start, or missed start etc.. that is what for me on a simulator make feel more real. well and both sim missed that point. FSX have a closer reality than all of them on that matter IMO.

Meaning everything is simplified here...but effects, look,sounds engine start etc.. shouldn't

RAF74_Raptor
04-16-2007, 11:57 AM
I have both Sims and I love both Sims

I would not say either is better than the other one. IL2 has great Multiplayer. BOBII has Gret Single Player and it has 6dof. But to say it will compete with SOW I dont know I dont know if BOB can keep up with SOW graphically

But this is a funny thread

TheGozr
04-16-2007, 12:01 PM
SOmething i forgot is That i think what is fantastic with IL2 is the good stable ONLINE code compare to many many others.. Lockon as well is good if only they could have made as well server format.

Also when you like the theater scenarios or the aircrafts you can have different sims in your HD it's all fun and very different no need to be loyal to death.. just have fun it's like a different book http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Brownba
04-16-2007, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:

This is strange statement... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are just my observations after playing both games.

stalkervision
04-16-2007, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RAF74_Raptor:
I have both Sims and I love both Sims

I would not say either is better than the other one. IL2 has great Multiplayer. BOBII has Gret Single Player and it has 6dof. But to say it will compete with SOW I dont know I dont know if BOB can keep up with SOW graphically

But this is a funny thread </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have both sims and each has qualities the other doesn't have. Having both is the absolute best way to go... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

msalama
04-16-2007, 12:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You dont want to know my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, we do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And from this comment I also take it that you've actually tried it yourself?

jasonbirder
04-16-2007, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ummm..sure
My mapped controls (off the top of my head)
flaps
gear
engine select
engine toggle
mixture
boost
prop pitch
aileron trim
rudder trim
elevator trim
prop feather
fire extinguisher
gunpods
drop tank release
ptt
canopy open/close
bail out
fire weapon 1
fire weapon 2
fire weapon 3
fire weapon 4
fire weapon 1&2
fire gunpods
bombsight angle
bombsight speed
bombsight altitude
bomsight drift
level stabalizer
autopilot
bombsight automation
map
icons
throttle
rudder pedals </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ao if you ignore the controls that didn't exist...(engine select, engine toggle, level stabalizer, autopilot, map, icons) and thos that relate to Bombsights (which I don't think anyone would argue were modelled realistically)
You're left with:
Primary Flight Controls (Stick, Rudder, Trim)
Throttle
Fire Buttons
&
Mixture, Prop Pitch, Supercharger, Radiators (all of which are very sympathetically modelled in Il2 to the point where they are almost an afterthought)
If you believe you could really fly around all day in your plane at 100% & 100% Prop Pitch occasionally opening you radiator to cool the engine down...then fine the game is realistic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
On the other hand if you look at how a World War 2 Fighter plane was actually flown - start up procedures, fuel management & engine management etc...you'll see that we're missing out on alot and the addition of additional controls would give us a much more enjoyable and much more realistic flight simulation!
World War 2

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-16-2007, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Geez, I better go tell the thousands on Hyperlobby that! Those poor basterds are still under the impression that they are flying a very much alive sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

p-11.cAce
04-16-2007, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you believe you could really fly around all day in your plane at 100% & 100% Prop Pitch </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I posted on the proper use of prop pitch HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6691015055/p/2)
and would NOT suggest ever flying around all day at 100/100. Thanks for reminding me that I forgot radiator setting and supercharger stage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Personally I want to build a crank connected to a flywheel on the side of my Akers-Barnes so I can simulate starting my beloved EMIL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Oh, and until someone develops a Glade plug-in that smells like avgas I'll never have the sense (or scents - ba da bum) of full immersion. I have Falcon4.0AF and there are days when I go through the whole 8-10 minute start up procedure (even have laminated cards) - but when I'm trying to squeeze in a quick session between walking the dogs and tucking in the kids....well let's be honest, its just a game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

crazyivan1970
04-16-2007, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You dont want to know my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, we do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And from this comment I also take it that you've actually tried it yourself? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually i did http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The reason i said that you dont want to know my opinion is simple... i am 100% online person....wait 200% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Sooo i have no opinion on BOB2 since it does not have MP. Well, maybe a little opinion. It didnt give me a feel of flying like IL-2 does... and it did look a bit cartoonish to me. I think 2006 game should have some graphics WOW factor... and BOB2 for me did not. I did not like the DM, it is too simple and visually kinda boring. I did like the sounds tho, cant take that away. Cockpits are not bad either... but not as good as latest IL2 cockpits. It`s a good game tho, i guess offliners are having a ball with it. But for me personally... it did not work for reasons listed above, even if you skip MP part.

EURO_Snoopy
04-16-2007, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That probably explains the stiil growing interest in the game on M4T, the amazing take up of IL-2 1946 and the ever growing members list. People just love a funeral

LEXX_Luthor
04-16-2007, 03:19 PM
rnzoli:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BoB Bob2, BobII, BOB, SoW WoV Wow! Tow...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif Why all those very similar abbreviations!? Am I the only one who gets dizzy around here? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't get it either. Then there's the post-StrikeFighers alphabet soup WoE and WoV -- Vietnam in this last case.

Forgotten Battles was an unbeatable -- untouchable -- name for descriptive purposes and marketing. Forgotten Battles is a name the customer can be proud of purchasing and playing. I love just typing out the words Forgotten Battles.

Aces Expansion Pac ... "arcade" name.

Pacific Fighters ... "arcade" name, but serving the crucial function of not advertising bombers.

1946 ... It is a unique name, and very descriptive except to Old Timers expecting a standard Microsoft 1946 theater and planeset, although its not an especially inspiring name.

BoB ... That started with Microsoft Bob Windows user interface "help" wizard which was laughed off the market in the mid-1990s.

Sow ... A (very) small river in England. The country is correct.

The River Sow has some good fishing apparently ~&gt; http://www.sotangling.com/RIVER-SOW

Battle Over The River Sow. Oleg and Developers everywhere, ya'll fellas/fellattes can do better than this! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-16-2007, 03:52 PM
...what the devil...

WWSpinDry
04-16-2007, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, and tell that to all the people who won't be getting BoB. IL-2 has long, long legs yet.

SeaVee
04-16-2007, 05:48 PM
There is a..... let me check..... 19 page, 277-post thread viewed 18,300+ times over at Shockwaveproductions that is a "comparison" of Il2 and BoBII. For the most part it has been carried out in a cordial, fair way which is refreshing.

Frankly, I don't think "comparison" is the appropriate term. It perhaps should have been called "the strengths and weaknesses of each sim" thread as there are some similarities in both and some big differences.

Both have many very good strong points and both have their faults and weaknesses.

Some aspects are a matter of personal preference.

I will not rehash all this here as it has reached a point beyond beating a dead horse.

There are closed-minded, extreme fanboys of ANY and EVERY game or genre - you could list them all BoB2, IL2, CFS3, BF2, BF2142, all the RPG games, The Sims, sub sims, tank sims, tic-tac toe, dominoes, ping pong - whatever. I think people with that extremist mentality are only short-changing themselves.

The way I see it if I'm the curator of the Louvre museum it does not mean that all the art in the rest of the world is simply worthless. One can have their "preferred game" but that does not mean one can't see and appreciate and enjoy other things. To do that is to close oneself off to the world and is simply narrow minded and short sighted.

One thing that is a nice point for the future of BoB2 is that it will be undergoing considerable and very significant ON-GOING additional development. That is due to Flying Tigers (a/k/a FT) - the new game announced by Shockwave probably to be released in Q4 '07 or Q1 '08.

FT, while based on the "Merlin" engine of BoB2 will have very significant updates and changes. Whoever posted that they don't see how upgrades to the BoB2 engine can go much further you are very wrong and clearly have not been on the FT dev site. Things on an order of magnitude different and better are coming - in the plane skins, cockpits, terrains, the entire sound engine, likely a single pilot career mode, many immersion-boosting big and small new details, significantly more activity around airfields, a much more robust, user friendly and intuitive mission editor, etc, etc, etc.

BoB2 is not lacking in immersion (see GOZR's cool YouTube video clip for a taste) but FT will be even more immersive. I have seen for example a 3+ minute video clip of a virtual pilot animation for FT that is still a work in progress but already utterly BLOWS AWAY ANY animated character in ANY game I have seen to date - that includes Armed Assault. This was not a pilot sitting in a cockpit but rather one standing outside and upright.

Many of the improvements being developed for FT will almost certainly make there way FIRST into BoB2 as part of continued free patches. It means the sim will continue to evolve and improve over time in very fundamental ways, not just added missions.

If anyone has seen the incredibly detailed skins and beautifully detailed and fully functional 3-D cockpits and superb sounds of Shockwave's add-ons for FSX you get an idea of what is likely coming for both BoB2 and FT.

The community over at Shockwave is a great one, generally mature and friendly and eager to help and provide guidance. There is a camaraderie there which is a little surprising given that the game currently has NO muli-player component.

There is also very frequent and direct interaction on the boards from the very highest levels of Shockwave and the Devs as well and they listen to community feedback and requests. I know firsthand that whenever it is technically feasible given the limited resources available and priorities of other fixes and wish lists, SW makes a bona fide effort to respond to such requests.

Any praise I have for the virtues of BoB2 is not intended to be a slap at Il2. As I said, the Il2 series is a great game in its own right. I've owned it since almost day one all the way through to 1946 and still play it. It is a great game and has many strengths and positives and any serious flight simmer would be remiss not buying it and having it on their PC.

I've said this in other threads before: Flight sims are NOT on the radar scopes of many big $$ gaming studios. This genre is not and will not be getting the development resource allocation that other big money genres are. There is very little ongoing development of NEW flight sims and that is not likely to change any time soon. We who love this genre should WANT any decent flight sim to be sucessful as it ensures more good choices for us today and into the future.

Il2 and BoB2 are both good sims and worthy of being on our PCs. BTW, I will certainly buy Oleg's BoB SOW when it is released and I truly hope it will be successful - and I expect it will be.

R_Target
04-16-2007, 05:55 PM
I think I might give this one a try. A different 109 pit with 6dof sounds pretty good to me. Who's got the hot link where I can pick up a copy?

SeaVee
04-16-2007, 06:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
I think I might give this one a try. A different 109 pit with 6dof sounds pretty good to me. Who's got the hot link where I can pick up a copy? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Short YouTube video clips of Track IR in 6DOF with BoB2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3888866243525949539&hl=en

and

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2051208934938168866&hl=en

More info: http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/bob/

spface
04-16-2007, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Geez, I better go tell the thousands on Hyperlobby that! Those poor basterds are still under the impression that they are flying a very much alive sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, go tell them son, Bob2 Wov is the way forward at the minute....

And to them who say the gui at Wov looks dated, i think IL2 one also looks quite bad and dated, and dont get me wrong, i actually sort of like still IL2...

spface
04-16-2007, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badatit:
You forgot multiplayer.

Oh yeah, that's right...it dosent support multiplayer...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has a cool tactical/stratagy map.
It has Spits.
It has 109's.
It supports track IR.
It dosent hold a candle to IL2.
It got uninstalled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

doesnt hold a candle to IL2...... get a live bruv....

Chivas
04-16-2007, 06:37 PM
Thats good news SeaVee...I had reservations about the Rowan engine being capable of spawning a more complex,stable, combat flight sim without a total rewrite of the code. Is the Merline engine a comprehensive rewrite of the Rowan engine code.

It would be outstanding to have two excellent combat sim developers. I know most of us would buy both.

~Salute~
Chivas

badatit
04-16-2007, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IL-2 which is officially dead and gone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Geez, I better go tell the thousands on Hyperlobby that! Those poor basterds are still under the impression that they are flying a very much alive sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, go tell them son, Bob2 Wov is the way forward at the minute....

And to them who say the gui at Wov looks dated, i think IL2 one also looks quite bad and dated, and dont get me wrong, i actually sort of like still IL2... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badatit:
You forgot multiplayer.

Oh yeah, that's right...it dosent support multiplayer...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has a cool tactical/stratagy map.
It has Spits.
It has 109's.
It supports track IR.
It dosent hold a candle to IL2.
It got uninstalled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

doesnt hold a candle to IL2...... get a live bruv.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?!...You registered an account to post this?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

spface
04-16-2007, 07:41 PM
Yeah, thought i could post my thoughts, if there is nothing wrong about that.... i hope.....

Bearcat99
04-16-2007, 07:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ICDP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I dont have WoV BoB.. from what I saw of it it was a step backwards... this from IL2... much less BoB... Personally I think any one who harbors tries to conmpare BoB to anything yet is only showing their silliness. Like Snoop said.. the sim isnt out yet.... ahnd it is counting the chickens berfore the egg hatches but as far as today goes..... WOV may do somethings bettewr than 46... but as an overall package there is nothing that can really compete with this series. Not that I know of anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you possibly know if IL2 is better than BoB WoV if you have never tried it? You state nothing you know of can compete with IL2 1946 yet have never tried the other main WWII sim available. It is impossible to form any valid opinion on software without actually trying it. Unless you have flown in the campaigns or against the excellent AI (which is overall far superior to the AI in 1946) your opinion on how poor the sim is compared to 1946 is totally invalid. If you haven't tried the sim then you can't form an opinion on it, you can only guess and guesses do no an opinion make.

If you refuse to try the sim due to some irrational belief that noone other than 1C can do a flightsim justice then I you really are giving 1C far too much credit. I suggest you get the sim, patch it upto the new 2.05 or 2.06 available very soon and give it a try. If you have never or never will give the sim a try then you really should stop putting forward your opinion as if it anything other than guesswork.

The truth is both games/sims have their strong points and both of them are very good in their own rights. IMHO having played both sims, added to the fact that I don't like online makes BoBII WoV a far superior experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be all that as it may be.. for me, from what I have seen of WOV in screenshots and movies I prefer to stick with FB.... I dont have to own it or try it to be able to acertain from what I have seen that it isn't for me.....
dont get me wrong... I'm not pi$$ing in anyones beer. if you like WOV I am happy for you.... Me? I dont care for clickable pits, I like to fly online, I have a TIR2, and I am limited in the time I have to fly this sim online or off.... and as I said above.. from what I saw of in cockpit shots still and moving of WOV it isnt for me.... and no matter what anyone says whether I have the sim or not.. the notion that as the original poster of this thread said... "WOV has set the bar for BoB"... is IMO aiming for the wrong bar. SOW will if the pattern continues redefine the bar....

BfHeFwMe
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/porkindustryinstitute/farmpics/Sow%20n%20piglets%203%20good.jpg
Lets all hope this doesn't turn out to be the ultimate SOW.

Hey look, there's little fans following it tucked right up close. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Charlie901
04-16-2007, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaVee:
There is a..... let me check..... 19 page, 277-post thread viewed 18,300+ times over at Shockwaveproductions that is a "comparison" of Il2 and BoBII. For the most part it has been carried out in a cordial, fair way which is refreshing.

Frankly, I don't think "comparison" is the appropriate term. It perhaps should have been called "the strengths and weaknesses of each sim" thread as there are some similarities in both and some big differences.

Both have many very good strong points and both have their faults and weaknesses.

Some aspects are a matter of personal preference.

I will not rehash all this here as it has reached a point beyond beating a dead horse.

There are closed-minded, extreme fanboys of ANY and EVERY game or genre - you could list them all BoB2, IL2, CFS3, BF2, BF2142, all the RPG games, The Sims, sub sims, tank sims, tic-tac toe, dominoes, ping pong - whatever. I think people with that extremist mentality are only short-changing themselves.

The way I see it if I'm the curator of the Louvre museum it does not mean that all the art in the rest of the world is simply worthless. One can have their "preferred game" but that does not mean one can't see and appreciate and enjoy other things. To do that is to close oneself off to the world and is simply narrow minded and short sighted.

One thing that is a nice point for the future of BoB2 is that it will be undergoing considerable and very significant ON-GOING additional development. That is due to Flying Tigers (a/k/a FT) - the new game announced by Shockwave probably to be released in Q4 '07 or Q1 '08.

FT, while based on the "Merlin" engine of BoB2 will have very significant updates and changes. Whoever posted that they don't see how upgrades to the BoB2 engine can go much further you are very wrong and clearly have not been on the FT dev site. Things on an order of magnitude different and better are coming - in the plane skins, cockpits, terrains, the entire sound engine, likely a single pilot career mode, many immersion-boosting big and small new details, significantly more activity around airfields, a much more robust, user friendly and intuitive mission editor, etc, etc, etc.

BoB2 is not lacking in immersion (see GOZR's cool YouTube video clip for a taste) but FT will be even more immersive. I have seen for example a 3+ minute video clip of a virtual pilot animation for FT that is still a work in progress but already utterly BLOWS AWAY ANY animated character in ANY game I have seen to date - that includes Armed Assault. This was not a pilot sitting in a cockpit but rather one standing outside and upright.

Many of the improvements being developed for FT will almost certainly make there way FIRST into BoB2 as part of continued free patches. It means the sim will continue to evolve and improve over time in very fundamental ways, not just added missions.

If anyone has seen the incredibly detailed skins and beautifully detailed and fully functional 3-D cockpits and superb sounds of Shockwave's add-ons for FSX you get an idea of what is likely coming for both BoB2 and FT.

The community over at Shockwave is a great one, generally mature and friendly and eager to help and provide guidance. There is a camaraderie there which is a little surprising given that the game currently has NO muli-player component.

There is also very frequent and direct interaction on the boards from the very highest levels of Shockwave and the Devs as well and they listen to community feedback and requests. I know firsthand that whenever it is technically feasible given the limited resources available and priorities of other fixes and wish lists, SW makes a bona fide effort to respond to such requests.

Any praise I have for the virtues of BoB2 is not intended to be a slap at Il2. As I said, the Il2 series is a great game in its own right. I've owned it since almost day one all the way through to 1946 and still play it. It is a great game and has many strengths and positives and any serious flight simmer would be remiss not buying it and having it on their PC.

I've said this in other threads before: Flight sims are NOT on the radar scopes of many big $$ gaming studios. This genre is not and will not be getting the development resource allocation that other big money genres are. There is very little ongoing development of NEW flight sims and that is not likely to change any time soon. We who love this genre should WANT any decent flight sim to be sucessful as it ensures more good choices for us today and into the future.

Il2 and BoB2 are both good sims and worthy of being on our PCs. BTW, I will certainly buy Oleg's BoB SOW when it is released and I truly hope it will be successful - and I expect it will be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!!
.
.
.
.
.
.

Charlie901
04-16-2007, 11:36 PM
WOW, I didn't realize what a touchy subject I've undertaken here.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Well you all are right!!!

I don't currently own BoBII but I've played it at my brother's and I was impressed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I never really gave this old sim a thought, I've owned every incarnation of IL2 up to the present 1946....been simming over ten years, have played all the Janes series, CFS, you name it.

Lately, I've gotten turned off multiplay, as I don't have the time invested in this sim like I used to; kids, home, work, life in general has gotten in the way. I find I get aggravated trying to "Keep up" with the "On Liners", I don't have TIR (wife shot that down last year due to $$$ woes) and I find that my trusty old X45 can't keep up with those that have the latest ubber HOTAS with their PP on a slider. I really haven't had the time to learn/re-learn all the tricks needed for that extra edge while playing online and getting shot down every 2 secs in online play by these Uber Aces gets mildly annoying after a while.

I guess I'm one of the few who don't actually prefer online play since I've gotten older and like the atmosphere of playing a solo campaign that gives the feeling of being part of a larger war.

Don't get me wrong, I still hold IL2 very dear to my heart but am interested in what BoBII has to offer.

Like I already said I though BoBII was a very dated sim with a Dynamic Campaign but the latest patches have REALLY seemed to update this game more than it's re-release.

I watched as my brother played a battle with at least 300 A/C in the air at once without the slightest lag (not doable on my med stream pc in 1946; and YES a "Bar that has been set" and should be reached or crossed by BoB SOW). The pits looked as good if not better than 1946 and the sounds blew IL2's away. What can I say the A/C in this sim sound like real WWII planes not lawnmower engines (for example). The clouds look amazing and can be actually used for concealment from the A.I. (a feature which 1946 doesn't have and yes it's a "Bar" that needs to be reached in BoB Sow- yet to be seen).

I've been playing through the 1946 Campaigns and the lack of "DYNAMICness" (in the classic sense) has really been a put off. Sure you could lose yourself in micro-managing the campaign in BOBII or you have the option to let the A.I. handle the strategic part and you just fly your missions. Watching my brother fight it out over the huge area of Southern England knocking Luftwaffe A/C out of the sky, and knowing that your kills help your side gain tactical and strategic victory was very impressive and immersive (a Dynamic Campaign "Bar" that needs to be reached in BoB SOW).

I never said that BoBII is better than 1946 or is it better than upcomming BoB SOW. I also posted the game adversement features...not made up my own. I really do believe that BoB SoW will step higher than BoBII but IMHO BoBII has currently "Set the bar" for the ultimate BOB sim in a SP setting.

Besides..
The degree of support from "Shockwave" has really got me set on trying this one out.

I think it will be a nice addition until Oleg's BoB hits the shelves. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
04-17-2007, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Besides..
The degree of support from "Shockwave" has really got me set on trying this one out.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that's always a plus..... that was one of the things that endeared me to this sim... remember the Friday updates? Every Friday we got an update from Oleg himself... for me at the time that was just unheard of.... I was used to the send an email to the company and they go.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Bearcat99
04-17-2007, 12:35 AM
By the way Charlie.... I prefer coops online to the straight DF servers... for me they are more fun. Feel free to pop into a 99th coop anytime.

LEXX_Luthor
04-17-2007, 02:57 AM
There are some 3rd Party modders here trying their best to make Online Wars, rnzoli a few pages ago is one I think. They are not simple dogfights, and you don't have to fly ace dogfight planes.

If you have not played Lowengin's offline dynamic campaigns, chzech them out. Lowengrin has saved this sim for alot of Oleg's offline customers.

There may still be a few crapplane servers around. F19 would know. I would imagine those are the most fun. Even plain dogfight crapplane servers might be worth looking into, as crapplane players are a step above the crowd. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Charlie901
04-18-2007, 12:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
By the way Charlie.... I prefer coops online to the straight DF servers... for me they are more fun. Feel free to pop into a 99th coop anytime. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks!

Maybe I will... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

ICDP
04-18-2007, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Be all that as it may be.. for me, from what I have seen of WOV in screenshots and movies I prefer to stick with FB.... I dont have to own it or try it to be able to acertain from what I have seen that it isn't for me.....
dont get me wrong... I'm not pi$$ing in anyones beer. if you like WOV I am happy for you.... Me? I dont care for clickable pits, I like to fly online, I have a TIR2, and I am limited in the time I have to fly this sim online or off.... and as I said above.. from what I saw of in cockpit shots still and moving of WOV it isnt for me.... and no matter what anyone says whether I have the sim or not.. the notion that as the original poster of this thread said... "WOV has set the bar for BoB"... is IMO aiming for the wrong bar. SOW will if the pattern continues redefine the bar.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again you are giving your opinion on something you have never tried. I hope you aren't taking these statements as personal attacks Bearcat, I am merely pointing out that opinions should be objective. The OP was referring to the whole game and that includes the AI and offline campaigns. So his "bar" is actually referring to the AI and offline aspects of SoW. You admit to not being interested in offline and that you have never tried BoBII, so you can't possibly claim that it shouldn't be used as a bar to aim for with regards to offline feel/gameplay. So when I say IL2 offline is drivel compared to BoB2 please don't use Il2 as a "bar to aim for", you can't claim BS since you haven't a clue what I am referring to. The only valid thing you have said so far about BoB2 is that it has no multiplayer so it isn't your thing. I can respect that and the fact that the videos/screenshots did nothing for you, but any other opinion you make on the AI and feel of the game is not objective.

For example, the only flightsim ( or indeed any game) I have ever played online is the IL2 series. By that definition it is the most wonderful and complete online experience I have ever had. Can you imagine how I would be laughed at if I were to hail IL2 as the best online game ever released and then say "but it is the only game I have ever tried online". I hope you get my point Bearcat. I suspect you don't even play IL2 offline that often (if at all) or you wouldn't be defending the overall AI so readily. Please accept my appologies if this "assumption" is in error. Do you see how easy it is to make assumptions without the facts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

msalama
04-18-2007, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...every 2 secs in online play by these Uber Aces gets mildly annoying after a while. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, switch over to bombers like me and it's all in a day's work after that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

ICDP
04-18-2007, 02:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Besides..
The degree of support from "Shockwave" has really got me set on trying this one out.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that's always a plus..... that was one of the things that endeared me to this sim... remember the Friday updates? Every Friday we got an update from Oleg himself... for me at the time that was just unheard of.... I was used to the send an email to the company and they go.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason I learned to respect Oleg and his crew. You could tell they were doing this for the love of the subject and not for money. The 1C team will always have my respect and I truly hope and believe SoW will be a massive improvement offline over IL2. Having said that I still have my doubts since the AI in IL2 has never been a priority for the developers.

Bearcat99
04-18-2007, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ICDP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Be all that as it may be.. for me, from what I have seen of WOV in screenshots and movies I prefer to stick with FB.... I dont have to own it or try it to be able to acertain from what I have seen that it isn't for me.....
dont get me wrong... I'm not pi$$ing in anyones beer. if you like WOV I am happy for you.... Me? I dont care for clickable pits, I like to fly online, I have a TIR2, and I am limited in the time I have to fly this sim online or off.... and as I said above.. from what I saw of in cockpit shots still and moving of WOV it isnt for me.... and no matter what anyone says whether I have the sim or not.. the notion that as the original poster of this thread said... "WOV has set the bar for BoB"... is IMO aiming for the wrong bar. SOW will if the pattern continues redefine the bar.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again you are giving your opinion on something you have never tried. I hope you aren't taking these statements as personal attacks Bearcat, I am merely pointing out that opinions should be objective. The OP was referring to the whole game and that includes the AI and offline campaigns. So his "bar" is actually referring to the AI and offline aspects of SoW. You admit to not being interested in offline and that you have never tried BoBII, so you can't possibly claim that it shouldn't be used as a bar to aim for with regards to offline feel/gameplay. So when I say IL2 offline is drivel compared to BoB2 please don't use Il2 as a "bar to aim for", you can't claim BS since you haven't a clue what I am referring to. The only valid thing you have said so far about BoB2 is that it has no multiplayer so it isn't your thing. I can respect that and the fact that the videos/screenshots did nothing for you, but any other opinion you make on the AI and feel of the game is not objective.

For example, the only flightsim ( or indeed any game) I have ever played online is the IL2 series. By that definition it is the most wonderful and complete online experience I have ever had. Can you imagine how I would be laughed at if I were to hail IL2 as the best online game ever released and then say "but it is the only game I have ever tried online". I hope you get my point Bearcat. I suspect you don't even play IL2 offline that often (if at all) or you wouldn't be defending the overall AI so readily. Please accept my appologies if this "assumption" is in error. Do you see how easy it is to make assumptions without the facts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I do fly offline a lot as well... and I am aware of the flaws in the offline play of IL2... I also understand what you are saying.... but I am not ragging WOV.... all I am saying is that A)It is not for me for the moment at least, for the reasons I stated above... and B)SOW will most certainly redefine the bar.. if for no other reason that it is a newer engine and given the track record of 1C I just don't see them rehashing the same old thing.... they did that basically with FB in comparison to IL2... but they improved it IMO... I just believe and who knows... I could be wrong.... that SOW will be unlike anything else on the market t6o date when it comes out and a lot of the issues that we have all been griping about for some time will be addressed.

No I am not taking any of this personally.. after all it is just opinions..... yours, mine and all the others.

NAFP_supah
04-18-2007, 12:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie901:
Realistic starting procedures via mouse
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Valid point </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Starting any engine, on any aircraft with the same 4 key strokes instead of 1 (in FB) - may be more complex, but definitely not more realstic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding the clickable cockpits. If a real life WWII pilot had one hand with one non-flexible hook-like finger on it - then the clickable cockpit would be realistic. Otherwise - it's not. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Instead, as we all know now, they had all the controls for their aircraft mapped on a 15 by 45 cm board which they could manipulate without ever having to take their eyes off the outside.

Sometimes on more complex aircraft it got a bit more trickey when they need to press complex key combinations. stuff like "Ctrl + alt + something" to check their IRL Stats. But luckily all aircraft in world war two had the same start up procedure of pressing one key and the thing was off. This was ofcourse decided during the Lutjelollum conference between the axis and the allies because they wanted to reduce the cost of conversion courses.

Have more bull**** to sell SaQson? I fly real airplanes, perhaps not warbirds but something far less complex and let me tell you, I don't feel for switches etc. Even the cockpit of my lowely cessna is crowded with equipment and just fumbling your way through it will result in things going kaputt, the average 1940's fighter plane was far worse. Back then the words Ergonomics and human interface design were only used as punchlines to dirty jokes.

No601_prangster
04-18-2007, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But luckily all aircraft in world war two had the same start up procedure of pressing one key and the thing was off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

During the Battle of Britain it was usually the ground crews job to start the aeroplane during a scramble. So for authenticity you should really start in the pilots seat with the engine already running! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p-11.cAce
04-18-2007, 12:51 PM
From the man himself: link HERE (http://www.simhq.com/_air6/air_220a.html)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Tom: Someone on the board asked about clickable cockpits, ala FS2004. Do you plan on any interface changes to include clickable cockpits? In the same vein what additions do you plan on implementing to improve coordination between yourself and AI pilots?

Oleg: We don't plan such a feature. In combat sim with clickable cockpits you will be sitting duck for the enemy (in particular case " against AI). Also clickable by the mouse cockpits really doesn't corresponding to real life action of pilot. At first because of time for reaction of plane after your decision to make something by the mouse. In real life the hand or finger of the pilot would work way faster and as result the response of controls will be also way faster. So clickable by the buttons some of most important functions would be really much better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Tom: The flight models in IL-2 were considered among the best made when the game was released. What changes have you made to the flight model to increase fidelity? At the same time will there be changes in the game to allow more of a hands on approach to things like starting procedures?

Oleg: In Storm of War: The Battle of Britain we will add even more precise calculations than in the last FM of IL-2 series. However user should understand always " as more complex program and more calculations are at once " more power system need to be present for the running program... So Storm of War: The Battle of Britain will be for the more power PC than the last in series of IL-2 modification. We don't plan to model absolutely all buttons of starting procedure working, like it is necessary for some real planes take off procedure with 20 or more clicks, movements of levers or so. This would be interesting for less than 1% of users... and even this one percent will try just once and then will play with the switched off such a function. Even real pilots. So to spend a time for a lot of programming for many different functions of a very different aircraft " this would be really great waster of time. Someone might disagree with me. But I have more than 6 years flight sim development experience and statistics in my hands. However we will have really much more cockpit functions programmed in new sim comparing to IL-2 series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

stalkervision
04-18-2007, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg: In Storm of War: The Battle of Britain we will add even more precise calculations than in the last FM of IL-2 series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Instead of making "the calulations more precise" he better start right off by consider throwing in a whole lot more original AI moves! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Holy Tea and Crumpets Batman! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
04-18-2007, 01:39 PM
and WTF is it going to take to fly this new game at more then the slowest of settings. THIS!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://www.cray.com/products/xt4/index.html

jasonbirder
04-18-2007, 02:21 PM
Oleg<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We don't plan to model absolutely all buttons of starting procedure working, like it is necessary for some real planes take off procedure with 20 or more clicks, movements of levers or so.This would be interesting for less than 1% of users... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SasQon<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Starting any engine, on any aircraft with the same 4 key strokes instead of 1 (in FB) - may be more complex, but definitely not more realstic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So which is it? Realistic start up procedures (and more importantly realistic engine/fuel/systems management procedures) aren't modelled because they are almost the same as what we have now and represent no increase in realism...(as SasQon says) or they aren't modelled because they are way too complex and boring for us flight simulation lovers (as Oleg says...)

I really hoped that BoB SoW with its smaller planeset and ambitious plans would give us a higher fidelity (and I don't necessarily mean FM) more realistic, more complex and more immersive experience...as it is I fear we will get what we have now...but with better graphics...

p-11.cAce
04-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Jason - save us all the trouble and first go read the whole article (I posted the link) then come back and talk http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
04-18-2007, 03:36 PM
I just enjoyed taking off in the new (gorgeous, by the way) AlphaSim Handley-Page Hampden in FSX. Now I could have hit Crtl+E or I could have done done all the formalities. I was in a hurry so I belayed the formalities. It's nice to have a choice. It's nice to be able to delude yourself you are a real pilot if you want. It's nice to be able to learn the ropes if you want. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with leaping into the air either. You don't need to click the buttons and flick the switches. I use buttons on my throttle and stick. Sometimes I click on gunsights to make them move out of my way (Bf 109, Me 262) or to turn them on. That is fun. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

slipBall
04-18-2007, 03:49 PM
I think Oleg should include as much as possible for the 1%...the percentage I think is much higher...I would love full real everything, for off-line mostly, and I would not always use it...would be great to have it though

leitmotiv
04-18-2007, 04:59 PM
The Microsoft Flight Simulator crowd and the IL-2 online crowd are like the difference between golf fans and big time wrestling fans, there is a crossover---I use both, but I don't use IL-2 online. I think BOB will be reaching out to the FS crowd with the enhanced engine management, and the greater landscape detail.

Carella_768
04-19-2007, 02:31 AM
I am a 100% offline player (for a lots of different reasons) I play mainly user made campaigns (I do not like very much the DCG campaigns. I bought both sims (IL2 and WoV) when they were released and have patched both regularly so now I have IL2 4.08 and WoV 2.05. I have 2 different profiles for my X45 as well. it is true that both sims have their strengths and weaknesses, but now I am playing 99% of IL2. especially with the new planes and maps in 1946 and 4.08. I have recently updated my computer and I can play at Perfect definition with 50 fps on average, and WOV does not stand the comparison in terms of ground graphics. The start up procedures are also a pain in the neck, you have to fumble a lot with your mouse to ignite the magnetos of the spit, and I gave them up. AI behaviour is good in WOV, but the 4.08 has improved too. I am convinced that SOW will be much better but mostly on improvements gained on the IL2 works and community, and not as a comparison with the existing WOV.I am waiting for it, so stopped playing WOV. (stopped playing BOB campaigns on IL2 too, and concentrate on other planes/maps).
I will also try Flying Tigers when released by the way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

spface
04-19-2007, 04:12 PM
For me its the other way around, i had Il2, FB, and PF, and now also 1946, but i have BoB2 Wov patched also to the latest update, and i tell you this now, im 99% flying BoB2 Wov, and not looking back.

Different people, different tastes i suppose. The way it is now, is not all IL2, BoB2 Wov, has many many fans out there. And increasing.

Why dissing other sims when all are good, Il2 for its things and Wov for other things, then it deppends of the person which one he preferst to fly and thats the end of it. And if you have time and Real Life lets you, play them all. Online, offline, and however.

Carella_768
04-19-2007, 07:18 PM
Hi Spface,
I agree with you comments but don't get me wrong, I still think BOB2 is a very good sim ( I would not have bothered patching it up and creating a stick profile otherwise)with very strong points, like a better flight immersion for example, and I am not dissing it. I would recommend it to anyone interested in flight sims. I probably will patch it to 2.06 and give a try again. But as you say different person, different tastes and I prefer IL2 graphics, I also enjoy the variety of flyable planes and maps in IL2. I guess some other people will like it the other way round and that is very fine. Also real Life taking its toll, I cannot play them all.
I expect both SOW and Flying Tigers ( from Shockwave) to be a step up in their genre and will try them both if I have the time.
I also think that both communities are excellent, the BOB2 is growing fast and is very active, and that both games are gaining from it.

stalkervision
04-19-2007, 07:26 PM
The more good flight sims out there the better... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
04-19-2007, 11:33 PM
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW.

Bearcat99
04-20-2007, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Carella_768:
The start up procedures are also a pain in the neck, you have to fumble a lot with your mouse to ignite the magnetos of the spit, and I gave them up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant you just assign each function to a button on the keyboard and create a profile for it on your stick? (That is if you have a HOTAS setup with enough buttons...) If it is just clickable with a mouse and unassignable to a key then that bites big time... I was considering checking it out just for the heck of it... but if thats the case I will keep on doing what I have been.. someone let me know.


and for the record.. I am by no means dissing WOV BoB.. in fact the only sim I have ever dissed and will continue to do so each time the subject arises (The out of box version.... NOT the great 3rd party stuff.. some of it anyway.... that turned a turkey into bird with wings at least..) is CFS3. I agree the more sims out here the better off the genre... but you have to give 1C their props man..... You can look at the great stuff Shockwave is doing.. but if anything they were wise enough to learn from the example that 1C set... as far as being engaged with your base and keeping them involved etc.... If 1C had done what so many other sim companies did... make the product put it out and let it go it's own way.... this sim would be no where near the icon or as 1up.com put it so eloquently... "the holy grail of WW2 flight sims..". It is in these areas as well in addition to the product itself that IMO set this series far and away above any of it's predecessors.... or their resurrected decendants. No matter how good they may be.

Hkuusela
04-20-2007, 01:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well... that's your opinion. I'd say they both have excellent qualities.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, and no one should even try. When we talk about a sim with a stricktly limited time frame, it would seem quite ridiculous to include lots of planes that had nothing to do with the BoB. I hope SoW won't do that either.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Feel" is highly subjective. As the people here often cry out, do you have test results to back your statement about flight models? Or do you only need test results when your critisizing Olegs sims? The effectivenes of the MG's is something I haven't noticed. Sometimes you can bring a plane down with a short burst, sometimes it takes more hits. It all depends what you hit really. A short burst in the engine will do the trick. And since I flew the WoV yesterday, I can tell you that with bullet gravity and dispersal on, you almost always need more than one burst. Watch gun cam footage and read the pilot records. Sure you may have pilots shooting their guns empty on a I-16 and still not get a kill, but then on the other hand you have these statements: "For a moment the enemy fighter was like a cross in the sky [having reversed it's turn]. I shot a burst and saw it tear apart the engine cowling. The enemy fighter spiralled to the ground". One burst, one kill. One thing that may be over modeled is the effect of damage on the FM. But then again you can't really know how badly your plane is hit, since the visual DM isn't nearly as good as in IL-2. So what you see may be different from what your PC "sees".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>In some aspects it does, in others it doesn't. I still think that VoW and IL-2 are different things for (partly) different people, as will probably be with SoW too. If not, all the better! I surely don't object to another great air combat sim and I'm quite sure SoW will find it's way to my HD.

joeap
04-20-2007, 03:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hkuusela:

No, and no one should even try. When we talk about a sim with a stricktly limited time frame, it would seem quite ridiculous to include lots of planes that had nothing to do with the BoB. I hope SoW won't do that either.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you aware that SoW is going to be a series, the first dealing with BoB, then other theatres added in time with the appropriate planes?

Hkuusela
04-20-2007, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Are you aware that SoW is going to be a series, the first dealing with BoB, then other theatres added in time with the appropriate planes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am now. Anyhow, WoV is not a series. It is strictly about the BoB. It is only natural to add planes if the time frame or the theater of war expand. I still wouldn't wan't to fight the BoB with Spitfire Mk XIV's and FW-190's or MiG-3's or any other aircraft than those available at the time. So what I'm after is historical accuracy, not to say SoW won't have it.

Carella_768
04-20-2007, 03:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Cant you just assign each function to a button on the keyboard and create a profile for it on your stick? (That is if you have a HOTAS setup with enough buttons...) If it is just clickable with a mouse and unassignable to a key then that bites big time... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I remember , no. That is the whole point, interaction directly on the cockpit board. The magnetos were a headache, other buttons worked fine. There were some commands that you could still assign to keyboards and HOTAS (flaps, landing gear) But Shockwave people are not too stupid, and you can disable this start up function. You will be on the tarmac with the plane already started (just as if you have hit "I" key in IL2). I just played it that way. Maybe other players are more patient than me and like this function. You still have to take off afterwards though. Pretty difficult with the spit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SeaVee
04-20-2007, 04:26 AM
One can use EITHER clickable interactive cockpit, keyboard or both. The interactive cockpit commands (magnetos, fuel tanks, primer, starter, flaps, gears, prop pitch)

There is also a bdg.txt setting for "engine always on" in which your flight (if the mission calls for takeoff start on the field) can have the engine already running. One can still shut down and re-start the engine even with this setting on. It probably should have been called "starts mission with engine running".

spface
04-20-2007, 06:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Carella_768:
Hi Spface,
I agree with you comments but don't get me wrong, I still think BOB2 is a very good sim ( I would not have bothered patching it up and creating a stick profile otherwise)with very strong points, like a better flight immersion for example, and I am not dissing it. I would recommend it to anyone interested in flight sims. I probably will patch it to 2.06 and give a try again. But as you say different person, different tastes and I prefer IL2 graphics, I also enjoy the variety of flyable planes and maps in IL2. I guess some other people will like it the other way round and that is very fine. Also real Life taking its toll, I cannot play them all.
I expect both SOW and Flying Tigers ( from Shockwave) to be a step up in their genre and will try them both if I have the time.
I also think that both communities are excellent, the BOB2 is growing fast and is very active, and that both games are gaining from it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats exactly what i mean, great words.

spface
04-20-2007, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care.

spface
04-20-2007, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:

It is in these areas as well in addition to the product itself that IMO set this series far and away above any of it's predecessors.... or their resurrected decendants. No matter how good they may be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly as you say my friend, in your opinion, for example IL2 is not my holy grial at all. Whant can i say or how can i explain it to you? For example, which is the holy grial of FPS games, Call of Duty or Medal of Honor series, well, for some people CoD and of others MoH.

I say, and specially if you go to the Shockwave forums, no one that likes BoB2 Wov says that the IL2 are less than great. Everyone at Shockwave forum and anyone that plays Bob2 completely respects BoB2. However is the other way around when you come over here or with people that have been playing IL2 for long. They are not willing, most of them, to give BoB2 a try. Why? i dont know. Comparisons are inevitable, we all know. But as its been said one sim is good at some things and the other is good at other things, none of both is perfect at all, and none of all is less good than the other.

spface
04-20-2007, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Carella_768:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Cant you just assign each function to a button on the keyboard and create a profile for it on your stick? (That is if you have a HOTAS setup with enough buttons...) If it is just clickable with a mouse and unassignable to a key then that bites big time... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I remember , no. That is the whole point, interaction directly on the cockpit board. The magnetos were a headache, other buttons worked fine. There were some commands that you could still assign to keyboards and HOTAS (flaps, landing gear) But Shockwave people are not too stupid, and you can disable this start up function. You will be on the tarmac with the plane already started (just as if you have hit "I" key in IL2). I just played it that way. Maybe other players are more patient than me and like this function. You still have to take off afterwards though. Pretty difficult with the spit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have played lots and lots Bob2 Wov, and i have to say i dont really bother with the clicable cockpits. Yes i start in the tarmac with the engine running, so what, in Il2 you just press I dont you? also i dont get time all the time to play, so it makes my life easier.

major_setback
04-20-2007, 11:14 AM
BoB2 may have set the bar for flight sims, but Oleg set the bar for the Fw 190!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

stalkervision
04-20-2007, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

knightflyte
04-20-2007, 11:53 AM
i have both sims. I'm very glad both are availible. The developers of each sim has raised the bar in enjoyment and wow factor.

I can only heartily thank both for all their work and effort to constantly better their respective products.

My personal fave is IL2. I fly BoB:WoV, but for some reason I am much more comfortable with IL2. But DAMN! i've had a few white knucklers in BoB:WoV. I can't diss a sim that does that on occasion.

BoB:WoV may not come close to what SoW:BoB can attain, but I honestly believe that the improvements to Shockwaves product makes it better for all involved and will be seen in their next Flying tigers sim AND Olegs BoB. How lucky are we with KoTS, FT, SoW:BoB coming to our hard drives withing the next 8 months to a year.

I will say that if AI behaves in SoW:BoB like it does in IL2 I will be extremely dissappointed. Working suspension for armoured vehicles is nice..... but if there is errant AI.......... well then what's the point.

buddye1
04-21-2007, 02:38 PM
Hi to all, I have read this thread with both interest and concern. I do coding work on BOBII AI and I have spent the last 11/2 years working on improvements and new features. I also own Il2 and Pacific Fighters and play it regularly as well as other games to get ideas on the AI and other features. I am sure all smart Sim developers do the same so they can see and try different implementations.

One of the primary differences I see in different Sim's is its basic foundation strategy and concepts that are used to guide its design decisions. .

In BobII, we like to offer the customer as many options as possible so that the sim can be changed to a players individual taste. It is a foundation strategy we operate with.

In Il2, I do not think offering options in some key areas is possible as it would destroy the consistent functions in the online game environment (in the online server like dog fight you want players to have exactly the same FM and other functions).

I only use "offering options" as one example of different game developer strategy as I am sure there are others as well (historical accuracy, realistic A/C and game features, online priority, offline priority, AI are human, AI are perfect, open/closed code, etc) .

With different strategies and concepts, you will have different designs and implementations, strengths, and weaknesses.

IMHO, different concepts and strategy for our few enjoyable Sims is a very good thing. If we keep our comparisons positive and factual with supporting data (unsupported claims are really worth nothing for an analysis) then that is also a good thing for the Sim customer and community.

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 02:57 PM
I think it is pointless to take the elementary school attitude that one toy has to be better than another, thus denying the age old wisdom there is more than one way to skin a cat. Until the Maddox BOB is released, IL-2 and BOB2 will be uneasy stablemates with each one having certain advantages and certain disadvantages but neither one being overwhelmingly superior---why? Because IL-2 is considerably hobbled by lack of 6 DOF (if you think this is insignificant, you have never used it), and BOB2 is graphically challenged in a big way compared to IL-2. Can't get around these two things. Most of the rest is absolute rubbish.

stalkervision
04-21-2007, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the absolutely great work Buddy1. The game is getting better and better by leaps and bounds with each new patch I try. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Keep up the excellent work! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 05:00 PM
Ditto http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Chivas
04-21-2007, 06:15 PM
I agree Lietmotiv except for:

Because IL-2 is considerably hobbled by lack of 6 DOF (if you think this is insignificant, you have never used it),

I have 6DOF and prefer not to use it, even in BOB WOV, I prefer to use a key to lean, left and right, and rotary to zoom.

~Salute~
Chivas

Dagnabit
04-21-2007, 06:33 PM
Charlie,

I would take your post more seriously if BOB2 had bested the bar set by IL2 first..Let alone having to go sooooooo far to match BOB SOW.
You are assuming too much, too early.
I have both games and I like them both but BOB2 is old school even though it has come a long way. IL2 is still a more well rounded package, and I prefer the FMs to BOB2.

Regards
Dag

leitmotiv
04-21-2007, 07:18 PM
Chivas: blimey!

BaronUnderpants
04-22-2007, 04:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Iv played BoB2 WoV...for a day, and i completly agree with Xiolablu.

AI/singleplayer may be better...not by much mind u, but it takes a hell of lot more than that to set the bar in a flightsim.

Based on what i saw while playing Bob WoV it did set the bar...compared to EAW. Cant help it but i think BoB "feels" exactly the same as EAW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
04-22-2007, 06:58 AM
This is similar to the Coke & Pepsi debate... my whole point was that.. as good as both sims may be in thier own right... SoW:BoB promisses to as I said.... redefine the bar instead of rising to any level previously set by any sim.

Chivas
04-22-2007, 01:35 PM
The BOB WOV readme did set the bar but the sim to this date hasn't been able to reach it. There is a good crew working on their improved Merlin engine that could eventually reach the bar they have set.

I've had some very immersive moments flying WOV. The start of a huge furbal is amazingly immersive. Another time I was flying above some cloud and down thru a break in the clouds there was a formation of Stukas, it was just beautifull.

The Cockpits are well done with some gauge work required.
It has 6DOF which most people love.
The clouds are some of the best in a flight sim but could use some refinement.
Some of the sounds are good
The FM is good, some love it, I find it alittle too twitchy for my taste. There is still some warping and side sliping. I find the air gunnery much more difficult because of the quick change of direction, sidesliping, exceleration, deceleration, and quick fall back of ammunition on deflection shots. All this may be spot on because I've never flown a Spit in combat.
The game has a very good arm chair general overall command campaign structure, where you can control the air battle or jump into any flight when you want some action.

Things that need to be improved.

The game needs a decent single pilot campaign that I believe most combat flight simmers would prefer. This is something that they are looking seriously at.

The terrain engine is circa 1990. At altitude the terrain and ocean are fine, but get near the deck and its an immersion killer. Everything will have to be redone to compete with todays standards. The merlin engine may be able to do this.

I find I can't fy the sim for too long as everything twitches to much for my eye sight. Your wingman look like they have terrets syndrome, small warps in the AI, and glittering and twitching fartiles. Some of these will be reduced in the next patch.

My personal pet peeve is the BOB map. You have two images the first is an expanded ugly picsilated mess. Then a zoomed in version which is much better. The first has to be replaced altogether. The second could use some place names to get a better immersive feel of being there. I don't see any interest from the WOV team in improving the map.

Flying as Flight Leader the AI can be very frustating especially since the Radio Commands arn't documented or properly defined.

Flying as wingman where you don't have control, the AI feels fine.

The good thing is that the sim is completely moddable and is being modded as we speak. Also the new Merlin engine should make vast improvements to this sim. I have seen no indication of this but, people that I respect at WOV say it is so.

The merlin engine has to make the game for stable to effect all these changes.

All this being said, I still believe that it should be on everyones harddrive as its decent now and will continue to improve. I know I've made no friends in the WOV community with all the negativity, regarding WOV, just telling it like I see it. I could do the same listing all of IL-2's faults, both games are less than perfect. Oleg plans to remedy most of Il-2 faults with BOB SOW new engine, and the Shockwave team plan on greatly improving WOV with their new Merlin engine.

I would also post this in the WOV forums, but I try not to go into another mans home and tell them how ugly his baby is, then show them a pic on how beautifull mine is. It just never seems to fly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They will see it anyway, have their say, Its all good.

The future is bright, with BOB SOW, KOTS, and possibly even FT and BOB WOV.

~Salute~

Chivas

SeaVee
04-22-2007, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Things that need to be improved.

The game needs a decent single pilot campaign that I believe most combat flight simmers would prefer. This is something that they are looking seriously at.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, plans are in the works for a single pilot campaign that is more simplified than the full campaign. In the meantime there is the single squadron campaign or the more complex full campaign. Once learned, the full campaign is amongst the most robust of ANY combat flight sims out there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
The terrain engine is circa 1990. At altitude the terrain and ocean are fine, but get near the deck and its an immersion killer. Everything will have to be redone to compete with todays standards. The merlin engine may be able to do this.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The main negatives of the existing terrain textures are the lower res textures - not so much the terrain engine. As you say, at altitude it looks very good. The BoB2 terrain is actually generated very similarly to the way FSX is done and was forward thinking even in its day. There are are already some great terrain mods available now (Pelican72, Cellinsky, the Dutchman) and the previous obstacle to additional terrain mods - the fartiles - has been fixed. I am even using terrain textures that I copied and modded from my copy of FSX. I'll post screenies later today - looks awesome.

Here is a modded airfield and treeline textures already in use by Rummy:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cswindell/images/shot_3.jpg

And here is either Cellinsky's or Pelican72's (not sure which) "photorealistic" terrain mod:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/shot_687.jpg
PS: I am not sure but Low Flyer (the guy who took the screenie) I think tinkers with his saturation and hues for many of his screenshots.

More screenshots here: http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...torder=asc&start=675 (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1732&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=675)


I can not disclose anything meaty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif but there is a SIGNIFICANT change coming for the terrain of BoB2 down the road. Same with the entire sound engine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif These (and other substantial improvements) are coming as part of the complimentary/parallel development of Shockwave's Flying Tigers. Much of this will likely be implemented within the next 6-12 months.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I find I can't fy the sim for too long as everything twitches to much for my eye sight. Your wingman look like they have terrets syndrome, small warps in the AI, and glittering and twitching fartiles. Some of these will be reduced in the next patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much of this is either fixed or substantially reduced with 2.06.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
My personal pet peeve is the BOB map. You have two images the first is an expanded ugly picsilated mess. Then a zoomed in version which is much better. The first has to be replaced altogether. The second could use some place names to get a better immersive feel of being there. I don't see any interest from the WOV team in improving the map. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great idea to improve this. I believe but am not positive it will be changed along with the terrain down the road.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
Flying as Flight Leader the AI can be very frustating especially since the Radio Commands arn't documented or properly defined.

Flying as wingman where you don't have control, the AI feels fine.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Valid point. Control of the wingmen has been improved some with the "attack my target command" that was implemented in patch 2.05. More can be done in this area as well. Its also useful to understand clearly how AutoVector works in the game. See: http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7526

Oh, the radio commands are now listed in an appendix for the new 2.06 manual (303 pages long).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I know I've made no friends in the WOV community with all the negativity, regarding WOV, just telling it like I see it. I could do the same listing all of IL-2's faults, both games are less than perfect. Oleg plans to remedy most of Il-2 faults with BOB SOW new engine, and the Shockwave team plan on greatly improving WOV with their new Merlin engine.

I would also post this in the WOV forums, but I try not to go into another mans home and tell them how ugly his baby is, then show them a pic on how beautifull mine is. It just never seems to fly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They will see it anyway, have their say, Its all good.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chivas, I don't see "all the negativity" in your comments and your constructive criticism has always been and remains welcome over at Shockwave. Many valid points made. The people working on this welcome such commentary. Go ahead and post this over there.

Chivas
04-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Thanks SeaVee

I just checked out the Manual you've redone for BOB WOV. Very impressive, well done.

~Salute~
Chivas

buddye1
04-22-2007, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
This is similar to the Coke & Pepsi debate... my whole point was that.. as good as both sims may be in thier own right... SoW:BoB promisses to as I said.... redefine the bar instead of rising to any level previously set by any sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, very well said, IMHO. The upcoming SOW release will be outstanding for our community and all Flight Sim developers to be able to take a hard look at SOW's new features and operation. It is always good to have a target to shoot at and try to improve on your own product within its design constrants and basic concepts.

It is truely the way our system of competation should and does work.

p-11.cAce
04-22-2007, 05:59 PM
I'm sorry...can someone direct me to the IL2 forum? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

I thought the "phot realistic" terrain in MSFS9 was the worst until I saw that mess! If that is setting the bar Oleg has little to worry about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

spface
04-22-2007, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Iv played BoB2 WoV...for a day, and i completly agree with Xiolablu.

AI/singleplayer may be better...not by much mind u, but it takes a hell of lot more than that to set the bar in a flightsim.

Based on what i saw while playing Bob WoV it did set the bar...compared to EAW. Cant help it but i think BoB "feels" exactly the same as EAW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You´ve played BoB2 Wov for a day, and come out with this post and a decision. 1 day. What can i say. Come on man. Anyway, its your point of view, but with only 1 day, which means a few hours..... i would think again before take any posts like that seriously. Take care mate.

spface
04-22-2007, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
I'm sorry...can someone direct me to the IL2 forum? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

I thought the "phot realistic" terrain in MSFS9 was the worst until I saw that mess! If that is setting the bar Oleg has little to worry about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what can i say, i had a bit of time to play today, and fired up 1946, and thought i´d take some screenies of the realistic landscape and water, here you are....it does look photo realistic eh?.....

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-26-31-92.jpg

the water...
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-20-57-54.jpg

love them 4 random trees...
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-25-54-92.jpg

Then after a while i got bored and thought i´d play the other one that i also like a lot together with IL2. Which is Bob2 Wov and also took some screenies....

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/uno.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/dos.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/tres-1.jpg

Well, at least here i knew i was over Britain and the Channel, never been to Crimea myself.....and yes i know im not good taking screenshots, just hit the key and whatever i get is good!

crazyivan1970
04-22-2007, 07:36 PM
IL-2
http://i18.tinypic.com/2sbpj41.jpg
http://i17.tinypic.com/2iu6i2q.jpg

versus

BOB2

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/uno.jpg

I would be really cautios about setting any bars guys. Sorry, obvious just hit you in the eye http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

spface
04-22-2007, 08:11 PM
Ivan, Ivan.... my friend. I did not start this thread... i did not mean to raise or set any bars... and also i dont have to be cautios of nothing. Good Screenshots by the way, and as i said im not good at taking screeshots myself. My point was that both games take good and bad screenshots dont they? depends on when and how you take them.
Anyway, laterz bruv.

Jaws2002
04-22-2007, 08:41 PM
I saw this half year old developement screens and I don't think BOB2 and SOW BOB are even close.
Honestly.

As said in the interview that was posted here few days ago there are already 11 flyable planes ready for SOWbob and by the time the game goes gold may have as many as 30 flyable aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Even in those heavy compressed shots you can see that the level of detail is just insane.

Just look at those trees. they look just as good from 5 feet as they look from 10000ft.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-5.jpg

Jaws2002
04-22-2007, 08:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
I'm sorry...can someone direct me to the IL2 forum? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

I thought the "phot realistic" terrain in MSFS9 was the worst until I saw that mess! If that is setting the bar Oleg has little to worry about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what can i say, i had a bit of time to play today, and fired up 1946, and thought i´d take some screenies of the realistic landscape and water, here you are....it does look photo realistic eh?.....

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-26-31-92.jpg

the water...
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-20-57-54.jpg

love them 4 random trees...
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/spitfireace32/il2fb2007-04-2302-25-54-92.jpg

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are those screens from original il-2? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

This is the water I see in my game and my PC is painfuly old:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/9f0fdaee.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/grab00.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/st1-1.jpg

spface
04-22-2007, 09:06 PM
wouldnt go fishing there, a bit too black? looks like petrol to me, but good screenshots by the way anyway.

Maybe my pc is older than yours......?.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

spface
04-22-2007, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I saw this half year old developement screens and I don't think BOB2 and SOW BOB are even close.
Honestly.

As said in the interview that was posted here few days ago there are already 11 flyable planes ready for SOWbob and by the time the game goes gold may have as many as 30 flyable aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Even in those heavy compressed shots you can see that the level of detail is just insane.

Just look at those trees. they look just as good from 5 feet as they look from 10000ft.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-5.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amazing pictures, and yes they are, just amazing. However the landscape has got nothing to do with England nowadays, let alone with England 1940....(and most of you must have at least once have flown over the Uk at some stage, and seen photos in books or documentaries of the 1940 summer...) What trees are them?

EURO_Snoopy
04-22-2007, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
Amazing pictures, and yes they are, just amazing. However the landscape has got nothing to do with England nowadays, let alone with England 1940....(and most of you must have at least once have flown over the Uk at some stage, and seen photos in books or documentaries of the 1940 summer...) What trees are them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you say early development?
Then try a-l-p-h-a........
The arguments here are getting pretty pointless, both il-2 and bobii exist, they have their fanbase, you can post all the selective material you want but SOW is coming, it will blow you away.

GregGal
04-23-2007, 12:34 AM
I'm amazed how can some of you defend a game you've never played before so bad! There are only these 8 screens so far, and a little video. BoB2 is an existing game, and if you spend some weeks playing with it, you'll see it's great. Il2 is great too. Let's hope SOW will be better than these 2, but no one knows anyithing yet! What if the sounds will be the same as in il2? or what if they wont't improve AI, and FM? Let's hope the best! But until that, hold your horses.

BTW those screenies look great, I love the 3d scenery, but those trees look like some painting, or a landscape from a Lord of the rings game. And the tracers don't seem to be improvedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
I'm really looking forward to SOW. is it in June when it'll be released?

Chivas
04-23-2007, 01:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW those screenies look great, I love the 3d scenery, but those trees look like some painting, or a landscape from a Lord of the rings game. And the tracers don't seem to be improved
I'm really looking forward to SOW. is it in June when it'll be released? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It currently has a proposed release for the end of the year.
By the way,,,we'll keep defending it as long keep complaining about it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bazzaah2
04-23-2007, 02:15 AM
my sim is bigger than your sim.

spface
04-23-2007, 03:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
Amazing pictures, and yes they are, just amazing. However the landscape has got nothing to do with England nowadays, let alone with England 1940....(and most of you must have at least once have flown over the Uk at some stage, and seen photos in books or documentaries of the 1940 summer...) What trees are them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you say early development?
Then try a-l-p-h-a........
The arguments here are getting pretty pointless, both il-2 and bobii exist, they have their fanbase, you can post all the selective material you want but SOW is coming, it will blow you away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes bruv, alpha, i know how to say it if you know what i mean, now can you say unrealistic? u-n-r-e-a-l-i-s-t-i-c. Yeah thats it well done. And dont get me wrong, i think its lovely i really like it !!

You know what, im bored and tired of it. Got more important thinks to think about now that my summer season is coming than comparing trees and stuff between sims, you all love Il2 and stuff, and some of you are clever enough to realize BoB2 is good too. I prefer BoB2 and still do like very much IL2, and when Sow comes out bet you it will be the nuts.

This is like, have you seen Ali G?

Westside is da best - ... Eastside is da best....no, Westside is Da best... Eeastside is da best......

no, .... gets long and boring. Enjoy whatever you play my virtual friends. Me, gonna leave the computer alone for a while and get out by the pool and sunbathe, as the day is lovely here. Laterz. !

spface
04-23-2007, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW those screenies look great, I love the 3d scenery, but those trees look like some painting, or a landscape from a Lord of the rings game. And the tracers don't seem to be improved
I'm really looking forward to SOW. is it in June when it'll be released? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It currently has a proposed release for the end of the year.
By the way,,,we'll keep defending it as long keep complaining about it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Knight of the Sky eh mate.... or...better off defenders of the Sky (that reminds me of something!)

crazyivan1970
04-23-2007, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
Ivan, Ivan.... my friend. I did not start this thread... i did not mean to raise or set any bars... and also i dont have to be cautios of nothing. Good Screenshots by the way, and as i said im not good at taking screeshots myself. My point was that both games take good and bad screenshots dont they? depends on when and how you take them.
Anyway, laterz bruv. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

spface mate, sorry i wasnt directing my reply at you... i just used one of your BOB2 screenies. Should have made it clear. My bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EURO_Snoopy
04-23-2007, 10:45 AM
Vintage of screenshots confirmed:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg_Maddox
Dast ist von pre-alpha version (15/08/2006)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
German UBI forums (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7871043264/m/6221088255?r=3281024355#3281024355)

No601_prangster
04-23-2007, 11:31 AM
How come the German UBI site has a SOW forum and we don't?

Foo.bar
04-23-2007, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">How come the German UBI site has a SOW forum and we don't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Because Oleg is posting there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BaronUnderpants
04-23-2007, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Iv played BoB2 WoV...for a day, and i completly agree with Xiolablu.

AI/singleplayer may be better...not by much mind u, but it takes a hell of lot more than that to set the bar in a flightsim.

Based on what i saw while playing Bob WoV it did set the bar...compared to EAW. Cant help it but i think BoB "feels" exactly the same as EAW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You´ve played BoB2 Wov for a day, and come out with this post and a decision. 1 day. What can i say. Come on man. Anyway, its your point of view, but with only 1 day, which means a few hours..... i would think again before take any posts like that seriously. Take care mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats my whole point...i couldnt stand it for more than a day. Maby i should have said: "Played it for 1 day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif".

But like u said, its anyones opinion, whether its based on 1 year of playing or 1 day is totaly beside the point. I didnt need more than a day to see that this perticular flight sim wasnt for me.

Everyone has differant taste...differance is im not wenting the full glory of IL2 Sturmovik on shockwave forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif By that i mean that its hardly a suprise if people doesnt fully agree with BoB fans.....in a IL2 forum, is it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BoB WoV just isnt some peoples cup of tea, thats all.

I sure hope another flight sim that tickles my fancy will pop up soon....just for the sake of trying differant flavors once in a while. BoB WoV just isnt that sim.

spface
04-23-2007, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
IL2 is far far the better game and sim.

I would even say for single player.

BOB2 seems OK for a while but the sheer sie and scope of the IL2 series just blows BOB2 away.

How can anyone compare 5 flyable planes to over 250?!?!

Also the 'feel' of the IL2 series is so much better. Guns and flight models in IL2 are bravely realistic rather than pandering to the loudest crowd. I already stated that at default settings the .303's in BOB2 are way too overpowered. A tiny burst takes down a 109E which is far from realistic. It should be hard to bring planes down with .303's and .50's, not a quick burst and they crash.

I dont think BOB2WOV raises the bar from IL2, never mind setting it for BOB:SOW. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My friend, im a afraid your words are very wrong, in fact i do wonder if you have ever played BoB2 Wov, by what you say, im pretty sure you have not. Not going to argue your points as you are very entitled to say whatever you want to say, as everyone else, but the overall of what you say in your post is not properly documented, well, a part from the number of planes. Take care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Iv played BoB2 WoV...for a day, and i completly agree with Xiolablu.

AI/singleplayer may be better...not by much mind u, but it takes a hell of lot more than that to set the bar in a flightsim.

Based on what i saw while playing Bob WoV it did set the bar...compared to EAW. Cant help it but i think BoB "feels" exactly the same as EAW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You´ve played BoB2 Wov for a day, and come out with this post and a decision. 1 day. What can i say. Come on man. Anyway, its your point of view, but with only 1 day, which means a few hours..... i would think again before take any posts like that seriously. Take care mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats my whole point...i couldnt stand it for more than a day. Maby i should have said: "Played it for 1 day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif".

But like u said, its anyones opinion, whether its based on 1 year of playing or 1 day is totaly beside the point. I didnt need more than a day to see that this perticular flight sim wasnt for me.

Everyone has differant taste...differance is im not wenting the full glory of IL2 Sturmovik on shockwave forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif By that i mean that its hardly a suprise if people doesnt fully agree with BoB fans.....in a IL2 forum, is it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BoB WoV just isnt some peoples cup of tea, thats all.

I sure hope another flight sim that tickles my fancy will pop up soon....just for the sake of trying differant flavors once in a while. BoB WoV just isnt that sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean, and its all good man. Im not only a Bob2 fan, as i have said, i also like Il2 and all its series a lot, thanks to this series there has been a WW2 flight simulator to play all this years, dont get me wrong. And i also cant wait for SoW to come out, cause i know it will be outstanding.

Anyway, my point is lets leave this, and lets just play when we can to at least for while escape the stress of real life!

Have fun people. And remember, they are only games.

ploughman
04-23-2007, 01:17 PM
I reckon the measure of a good BoB sim is if you can stampede cattle over a ha-ha in a 109.

It's a bar, it's been set.

Dagnabit
05-03-2007, 12:00 AM
I bought BOB2 when it first came out, and it was terrible. I think in fairness that many continue to remember that, and associate their experience with the P.O.S. that BOB2 was at the time.
As I have said before the 2.05 patch/rebuild, has done wonders for BOB2 , but to me it is still dragging some large millstones around.
The FMs compared to IL2s make the planes feel like they are on a rail. You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. So for me there is no competition from BOB2 on the immersion level. Subjective summary?....Damn Betcha!!

Dag

Nimits
05-03-2007, 01:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator.

Bearcat99
05-03-2007, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
The arguments here are getting pretty pointless, both il-2 and bobii exist, they have their fanbase, you can post all the selective material you want but SOW is coming, it will blow you away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of that I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GregGal:
I'm amazed how can some of you defend a game you've never played before so bad! There are only these 8 screens so far, and a little video. BoB2 is an existing game, and if you spend some weeks playing with it, you'll see it's great. Il2 is great too. Let's hope SOW will be better than these 2, but no one knows anyithing yet! What if the sounds will be the same as in il2? or what if they wont't improve AI, and FM? Let's hope the best! But until that, hold your horses.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the title of the tread has more to do with the nature of the responses.... I know it did with mine. The bottom line is this.. and you can take this to the bank. While it is true that we do not know how BoB will be... we can rest assured that it will be unlike anything that existst today.... if fore no other reason that the other two sims in question are using engines that for better or worse are what..... 7-10 years old? The fact that they still look as good as they do and run as well as they do in their own rights says enough about the quality of each product... but SoW:BoB will not rise to any bar previously set..... and certainly not the offset bar set by WoV... and it is that premise that has caused so much.... debate.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
The FMs compared to IL2s make the planes feel like they are on a rail. You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. So for me there is no competition from BOB2 on the immersion level. Subjective summary?....Damn Betcha!!
Dag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is exactly the impression I got from looking at the WoV videos I have seen.... That's one reason why I have yet to try it. I have shown pilots FB movies and they all got the sense of flight from seeing them... one of the favorites believe it or not with a lot of the old guys is the one by CHNN... the one with the P-40s in it... and that was on the older FM that wasn't as good as this one.


I for one cant wait to see the difference with those 2048x2048 skins.... can you imagine the level of detail that a guy like say.... Canon... or Shooter.... or any of the other 1st class skinners we have around here, could come up with?!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I think that unless 1C has had a labotomy.... or a personality change..... things will go in the same vein that they have been going in... and if the fliers of this series are as passionate about it as we are... can you imagine how passionate the developers are about it?

jasonbirder
05-03-2007, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">While it is true that we do not know how BoB will be... we can rest assured that it will be unlike anything that existst today </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm looking forward to BOB...before anyone shoots me down in flames...but my primary concern is that from what i've seen so far BOB will be almost exactly like what we have today...only with better graphics...

I for one can't get too excited about 2048x2048 skins...as they won't look much better from 300 meters away and at 300mph will they...i'm more interested in flying...than looking around out of my cockpit and taking screenshots

mbfRoy
05-03-2007, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spface:
Well, what can i say, i had a bit of time to play today, and fired up 1946, and thought i´d take some screenies of the realistic landscape and water, here you are....it does look photo realistic eh?.....

Well, at least here i knew i was over Britain and the Channel, never been to Crimea myself.....and yes i know im not good taking screenshots, just hit the key and whatever i get is good! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just took these 2 screenshots for the hell of it.
http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8926/comparacion1lj9.th.jpg (http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparacion1lj9.jpg)
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/20/comparacion2rq4.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comparacion2rq4.jpg)

I had always thought that IL2 was lacking detail on the ground, but judging from the screenshots on SeaVee's link WoV is a few years behind. By the way, why that disparity in color saturation and why does the sea look green like a po (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/jimerus/Wings%20of%20Victory/shot_028.jpg)nd (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/jimerus/Wings%20of%20Victory/shot_050.jpg)?

TheGozr
05-03-2007, 11:18 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KVL_iwAksxE

stalkervision
05-03-2007, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt; I have the exact same responce as you. This conclusion the other poster comes to totally confuses me. The only way I can see this poster saying this is if he just looked at the Utube video's( from which one then might believe his opinion.. ) and never really got a chance to actually try bob out or used the very buggy earlier version which did exhibit these traits partially.

"A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge."

&gt;&gt; Huh? Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy! At least the version we use now..!&lt;&lt;


Very strange.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


The only thing I wish I could do is get my old old MSFF stick to work with BOB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Does that sound like a game where the planes "rides on rails" ?

Chivas
05-03-2007, 12:05 PM
Hmmm...my MSFF2 works in both games. Did you check the ForceFeedback option in the Option/Control section.

crazyivan1970
05-03-2007, 12:08 PM
You guys are still going at it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p-11.cAce
05-03-2007, 12:19 PM
My experience with Shockwave:
Bought it - downloaded patches - installed - CTD's - tried to join forums - denied - finally (thanks to seevee in this forum) fwd request to Scott Gentile and get into forums - set up DEP exclusions - CTD's - uninstalled/reinstalled vid drivers - CTD's - tweaked around my system some more - patched to 2.06 when it was released - finally got it loading and playing pretty stable -played it for 30 hours or so over two weeks - then a few hours the third week - then uninstalled it so I'd have HD space for Medieval Total War II.

Its a fine sim. Better than 46? I don't think it comes close. Setting the bar for SoW - http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

stalkervision
05-03-2007, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You guys are still going at it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


well it's a slow news day... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

crazyivan1970
05-03-2007, 12:31 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

stalkervision
05-03-2007, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes we're crazy but at least we admit it.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HuninMunin
05-03-2007, 12:39 PM
http://www.roflcats.com/images/0188.jpg

ploughman
05-03-2007, 12:43 PM
The whole stability thing has been an issue, I haven't played WoV for a while because I just couldn't be bothered to carry on wet-nursing the program enough to get it going when I knew I could be on Il-2 '46 in a few minute.

One thing about any of the Il-2 realated products is that I have never in all the years I've been playing it (I'm pretty sure) had a CTD that I can pin on the game.

stalkervision
05-03-2007, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
The whole stability thing has been an issue, I haven't played WoV for a while because I just couldn't be bothered to carry on wet-nursing the program enough to get it going when I knew I could be on Il-2 '46 in a few minute.

One thing about any of the Il-2 realated products is that I have never in all the years I've been playing it (I'm pretty sure) had a CTD that I can pin on the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

patch 2.06 will be out in days and addresses these issues.

I have il-2 1946 crash directly to the desktop more then once. On other versions of il-2 this never happened.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Chivas
05-03-2007, 01:11 PM
I have very few crashes in the current BOB WOV and the flights load much quicker now. The program has improved significantly.

I can't remember ever crashing in the Il-2 series, even in the beta test days. I've always had a higher end system with an unclutter OS and harddrive. IL-2 is the most stable program I've ever encountered.

The stabability and speed of WOV and increased 10 fold and should not cause a problem for most users. There is still room for some optimisation.

~Salute~
Chivas

Dagnabit
05-04-2007, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt; I have the exact same responce as you. This conclusion the other poster comes to totally confuses me. The only way I can see this poster saying this is if he just looked at the Utube video's( from which one then might believe his opinion.. ) and never really got a chance to actually try bob out or used the very buggy earlier version which did exhibit these traits partially.

"A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge."

&gt;&gt; Huh? Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy! At least the version we use now..!&lt;&lt;


Very strange.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


The only thing I wish I could do is get my old old MSFF stick to work with BOB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Does that sound like a game where the planes "rides on rails" ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Stalker..."The BOB2 Railroad" does sound kinda catchy.
And while you were busy ASSuming what I did or didnt fly in BOB2, or indeed whether I fly it at all, you missed A couple of items. Now a safe ASSumption would be that I had to be flying the 2.05 version because before that it was all about CTDs, and not flying anything except the box it came in. (The box dives well but wont turn unless the flaps are on a slider)
Being basiclly errr stupid, I had to read the list of available fighters in BOB2 a few times trying to memorize the huge selection, and in the end I tried all 3. A massive undertaking to be sure. But I finally got around to the Spit. and the 109, and I must say Im glad that they LOOK different in the game as it makes it much easier to tell them apart.

"Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy"

Now thats cool , I dont have many "buddys". But based on our being
brand new "buddys" I think I can safely offer that what ever you dont understand about me in the first 2min of contemplation, should be just chalked off and added to the many many other things that you know nothing about. Words to grow on eh? Thats what "buddys" are for!!

Looking forward to being your "buddy" forever. How exciting!!
Your "buddy"
Dag

stalkervision
05-04-2007, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt; I have the exact same responce as you. This conclusion the other poster comes to totally confuses me. The only way I can see this poster saying this is if he just looked at the Utube video's( from which one then might believe his opinion.. ) and never really got a chance to actually try bob out or used the very buggy earlier version which did exhibit these traits partially.

"A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge."

&gt;&gt; Huh? Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy! At least the version we use now..!&lt;&lt;


Very strange.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


The only thing I wish I could do is get my old old MSFF stick to work with BOB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Does that sound like a game where the planes "rides on rails" ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Stalker..."The BOB2 Railroad" does sound kinda catchy.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"And while you were busy ASSuming what I did or didnt fly in BOB2, or indeed whether I fly it at all, you missed A couple of items."

&gt; Did I? ASSumptions seem to be your specialty tell me more.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif &lt;

" Now a safe ASSumption would be that I had to be flying the 2.05 version because before that it was all about CTDs, and not flying anything except the box it came in."

&gt;Hardly.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It may mean though you flew some way ealier version once. Maybe?? I bet your a cheapskate and it was an original early demo trial... Actually 2.5 has few CTD's that I have found and from my other "real buds" they say the very same exact thing. You seem to be the exception from what I have seen &lt;


"(The box dives well but wont turn unless the flaps are on a slider)"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"Being basiclly errr stupid,"


&gt;&gt; You said it I didn't&lt;&lt;



"I had to read the list of available fighters in BOB2 a few times trying to memorize the huge selection, and in the end I tried all 3."

&gt;&gt; You had to memorize it and you came up with three only three? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Actually one can fly the me 109 ,spitfire, Me-110 and Hurricane and ju-87. That's five not three.. This isn't counting all the other types of aircraft in the sim one can man as bomb aimers and gunners but I ASSume" you mean the flyable ones?

Otherwise if I didn't ASSume this you would obviously be a total loser. Funny you being so familiar with the game I would have thought you would know there were five directly flyable planes.

I suppose they could put in more planes for your amusment but this being a Battle of Britain sim, P-51's Me-262's Mitsubishi zero's and oscars just somehow seem strangly out of place...&lt;&lt;


"A massive undertaking to be sure. But I finally got around to the Spit. and the 109, and I must say Im glad that they LOOK different in the game as it makes it much easier to tell them apart."


&gt;&gt; The spit and the 109 fly completly and totally differently. If you actually flew the game you would know that. That say volumes all by it'self.. &lt;&lt;

&gt;&gt; stalker quote..Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy" &lt;&lt;&lt;

Now thats cool , I dont have many "buddys". But based on our being brand new "buddys" I think I can safely offer that what ever you dont understand about me in the first 2min of contemplation, should be just chalked off and added to the many many other things that you know nothing about. Words to grow on eh? Thats what "buddys" are for!!


&gt;&gt; You show as much understanding for BOB2 from what I have seen in your post as a dog knows for nuclear physics. Frankly I doubt you ever flew it at all since you don't even know the planes in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif &lt;&lt;



"Looking forward to being your "buddy" forever. How exciting!!
Your "buddy""
Dag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


&gt;&gt; No thanks I have fish that are much smarter and far more interesting then you. If I had to choose between you and a goldfish as a prize in a 10 cent carnival skill game I would pick the goldfish...&lt;&lt;

Dagnabit
05-04-2007, 08:49 PM
posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt; I have the exact same responce as you. This conclusion the other poster comes to totally confuses me. The only way I can see this poster saying this is if he just looked at the Utube video's( from which one then might believe his opinion.. ) and never really got a chance to actually try bob out or used the very buggy earlier version which did exhibit these traits partially.

"A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge."

&gt;&gt; Huh? Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy! At least the version we use now..!&lt;&lt;


Very strange.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


The only thing I wish I could do is get my old old MSFF stick to work with BOB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Does that sound like a game where the planes "rides on rails" ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Stalker..."The BOB2 Railroad" does sound kinda catchy.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"And while you were busy ASSuming what I did or didnt fly in BOB2, or indeed whether I fly it at all, you missed A couple of items."

&gt; Did I? ASSumptions seem to be your specialty tell me more.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif &lt;

" Now a safe ASSumption would be that I had to be flying the 2.05 version because before that it was all about CTDs, and not flying anything except the box it came in."

&gt;Hardly.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It may mean though you flew some ealier version once. I bet maybe one early demo trial... Actually 2.5 has few CTD's that I have found and from my other "real buds" they say the very same exact thing. You seem to be the exception from what I have seen &lt;


"(The box dives well but wont turn unless the flaps are on a slider)"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"Being basiclly errr stupid,"


&gt;&gt; You said it I didn't&lt;&lt;



"I had to read the list of available fighters in BOB2 a few times trying to memorize the huge selection, and in the end I tried all 3."

&gt;&gt; Actually one can fly the me 109,spitfire, Me-110 and Hurricane. Being so familiar with the game I would have thought you would know this?

I suppose they could put in more planes for your amusment but this being a Battle of Britain sim, P-51's Me-262's Mitsubishi zero's and oscars just somehow seem strangly out of place...&lt;&lt;


"A massive undertaking to be sure. But I finally got around to the Spit. and the 109, and I must say Im glad that they LOOK different in the game as it makes it much easier to tell them apart."


&gt;&gt; well if you can't tell a spitfire fom a Hurricane in any flight sim I don't know how the heck you can handle all the different planes in Il-2! Is your monitor braile equiped? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif &lt;&lt;

&gt;&gt; stalker quote..Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy" &lt;&lt;&lt;

Now thats cool , I dont have many "buddys". But based on our being brand new "buddys" I think I can safely offer that what ever you dont understand about me in the first 2min of contemplation, should be just chalked off and added to the many many other things that you know nothing about. Words to grow on eh? Thats what "buddys" are for!!


&gt;&gt; You show as much understanding for BOB2 from what I have seen in your post as a dog knows for nuclear physics. Frankly I doubt you ever flew it at all since you don't even know the planes in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif &lt;&lt;



"Looking forward to being your "buddy" forever. How exciting!!
Your "buddy""
Dag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


&gt;&gt; No thanks I have fish that are smarter and more interesting then you... &lt;&lt;[/QUOTte

I knew it couldnt last forever. Sooooo get some scuba gear and catch up with your crowd.
Does it bother your fish when you get in the tank? Some smaller fish are intimidated by Big Mouth bASS., or little boys.

Your crowd is here...http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php enjoy!..."buddy"
BTW welcome to the wonderful world of IGNORE

stalkervision
05-04-2007, 09:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You do not "FLY" the planes in BOB2. You point them in the desired direction. I do not get the sense of speed, or changes in speed. With IL2 there is much more of a sense/feeling of being in controlof an aircraft. A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intersting; because my experiance is the exact opposite. Prior to the 4.x versions, I found the Forgotten Battles incredibly sterile and simple to fly; the later versions have imporved the flight modeling signifcantly, but even then, I still find BoB's Spitfires and Hurricanes to have what a much more "realistic" feeling than the corresponding planes in 1946(in terms of sense of flight in general, having of course zero real life hours in any WWII type).

Plus, BoB2 models the "switchology" and systems management of these aircaft in much more extensive detail than 1946 (or than SoW promises), not to mention the underlying campaign engine in BoB2 is much more detailed, immersive, and realistic (its only real fault being the lack of a "play as a piloy" only mode) than anything in 1946 or promised in SoW so far. From what little we have heard so far, SoW looks to use an upgraded version of DGen, rather than try to emulate the excellent dynamic campaigns from sims such as Red Baron 3D, Battle of Britain II, or the 1946 third party Dynamic Campaign Generator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt; I have the exact same responce as you. This conclusion the other poster comes to totally confuses me. The only way I can see this poster saying this is if he just looked at the Utube video's( from which one then might believe his opinion.. ) and never really got a chance to actually try bob out or used the very buggy earlier version which did exhibit these traits partially.

"A better sense of timing, and feeeling at times of being right out there on the edge."

&gt;&gt; Huh? Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy! At least the version we use now..!&lt;&lt;


Very strange.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


The only thing I wish I could do is get my old old MSFF stick to work with BOB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Does that sound like a game where the planes "rides on rails" ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah Stalker..."The BOB2 Railroad" does sound kinda catchy.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"And while you were busy ASSuming what I did or didnt fly in BOB2, or indeed whether I fly it at all, you missed A couple of items."

&gt; Did I? ASSumptions seem to be your specialty tell me more.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif &lt;

" Now a safe ASSumption would be that I had to be flying the 2.05 version because before that it was all about CTDs, and not flying anything except the box it came in."

&gt;Hardly.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It may mean though you flew some ealier version once. I bet maybe one early demo trial... Actually 2.5 has few CTD's that I have found and from my other "real buds" they say the very same exact thing. You seem to be the exception from what I have seen &lt;


"(The box dives well but wont turn unless the flaps are on a slider)"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"Being basiclly errr stupid,"


&gt;&gt; You said it I didn't&lt;&lt;



"I had to read the list of available fighters in BOB2 a few times trying to memorize the huge selection, and in the end I tried all 3."

&gt;&gt; Actually one can fly the me 109,spitfire, Me-110 and Hurricane. Being so familiar with the game I would have thought you would know this?

I suppose they could put in more planes for your amusment but this being a Battle of Britain sim, P-51's Me-262's Mitsubishi zero's and oscars just somehow seem strangly out of place...&lt;&lt;


"A massive undertaking to be sure. But I finally got around to the Spit. and the 109, and I must say Im glad that they LOOK different in the game as it makes it much easier to tell them apart."


&gt;&gt; well if you can't tell a spitfire fom a Hurricane in any flight sim I don't know how the heck you can handle all the different planes in Il-2! Is your monitor braile equiped? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif &lt;&lt;

&gt;&gt; stalker quote..Then you haven't ever flown a 109 or spit up to it's stall point in bobwov buddy" &lt;&lt;&lt;

Now thats cool , I dont have many "buddys". But based on our being brand new "buddys" I think I can safely offer that what ever you dont understand about me in the first 2min of contemplation, should be just chalked off and added to the many many other things that you know nothing about. Words to grow on eh? Thats what "buddys" are for!!


&gt;&gt; You show as much understanding for BOB2 from what I have seen in your post as a dog knows for nuclear physics. Frankly I doubt you ever flew it at all since you don't even know the planes in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif &lt;&lt;



"Looking forward to being your "buddy" forever. How exciting!!
Your "buddy""
Dag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


&gt;&gt; No thanks I have fish that are smarter and more interesting then you... &lt;&lt;[/QUOTte

I knew it couldnt last forever. Sooooo get some scuba gear and catch up with your crowd.
Does it bother your fish when you get in the tank? Some smaller fish are intimidated by Big Mouth bASS., or little boys.

Your crowd is here...http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php enjoy!..."buddy"
BTW welcome to the wonderful world of IGNORE </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee but I thought you ASSumed I was your life long bud... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As Erich Hartman use to say.. "Bullseye! Impact burst. Every round hit home.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif"

btw too bad you weren't a goldfish then I could and would flush you down the bowl when I got tired of you.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EURO_Snoopy
05-04-2007, 09:54 PM
Oh dear here come the looooong lists of quotes.

leitmotiv
05-04-2007, 10:08 PM
I like BOB2 (even though 2.05 CTDs on my rig and I can't use it), but there "ain't no way" it will be in the same class as BOB unless BOB crashes and burns like the 1C Vietnam helicopter game---in which case there will be a run on BOB2 and Shockwave will be the new darling of combat flight sims---this is assuming it gets as good with each patch as we are being told it will. There are many ifs here. In the meantime, I wish them luck.

stalkervision
05-04-2007, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I like BOB2 (even though 2.05 CTDs on my rig and I can't use it), but there "ain't no way" it will be in the same class as BOB unless BOB crashes and burns like the 1C Vietnam helicopter game---in which case there will be a run on BOB2 and Shockwave will be the new darling of combat flight sims---this is assuming it gets as good with each patch as we are being told it will. There are many ifs here. In the meantime, I wish them luck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am afraid your right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif BOBSOW will have all that pretty eye candy people so love including myself and BOBWOV will become a distint second fiddle. It is really too bad because the game has been steadily improved and with the new patch will really become much better then the original version was from what I have heard..

I am really sorry leitmotiv that you have ctd problems with bob. When I had my old dell with it's crappy cpu and unrevised BOB original version that was my complaint also. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Right now with my new Hp rig and much better processor it is an absolute pleasure to fly. Soon the new 2-6 version will come out which deal with many of these ctd problems people have had and are having still. I keep waiting for it like the "second coming" because what I have now is so good I want more..

maybe in the 2.6 patch your problems will be resolved. Don't give up. I have a hunch this time they just might be.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You got to try once more leitmotiv. I hear they have one killer "terminator ai" in the new patch. In multiple beta aircraft missions 12 v 12 it has yet to be beaten.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

In fact I have heard they might have to turn it down a bit because it is so deadly.

leitmotiv
05-04-2007, 10:47 PM
No sweat, I'm buying a 2.06 disk. I'm with the program even after Oleg BOB. My background is in history and all the history-oriented people working on BOB2 are a rare constellation unlikely to reoccur. Too bad people don't realize how important they are. I do, and I appreciate what they are doing.

stalkervision
05-04-2007, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
No sweat, I'm buying a 2.06 disk. I'm with the program even after Oleg BOB. My background is in history and all the history-oriented people working on BOB2 are a rare constellation unlikely to reoccur. Too bad people don't realize how important they are. I do, and I appreciate what they are doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to hear it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I too am a big history fan. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Yes you are absolutely right. A core group like this one is a rare event.

leitmotiv
05-05-2007, 12:20 AM
Well, I can't help it. I'm a 110 junkie. I live to brawl with the RAF in a 110. Therefore, I MUST have BOB2!

stalkervision
05-05-2007, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Well, I can't help it. I'm a 110 junkie. I live to brawl with the RAF in a 110. Therefore, I MUST have BOB2! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaVee
05-05-2007, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Well, I can't help it. I'm a 110 junkie. I live to brawl with the RAF in a 110. Therefore, I MUST have BOB2! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you'll like heinkill's Bf 110 combat notes thread:
http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7720

Foo.bar
05-05-2007, 08:24 AM
The only game wich has set a bar for BoB is KotS.

http://www.gennadich.com/images/634_pic_multi.jpg

leitmotiv
05-05-2007, 08:49 AM
Yes, heinkill has the right idea about the 110, SeaVee. I like his analogy about rolling Roseanne Barr in wet sand for the 110's roll rate---well, she ain't a 109, that's for sure. Someone once wrote that if the 110 had been able to be used like the P-38, remain very high and only leave its perch for quick strikes, it would have had a happier experience in the Battle of Britain, but closely tethered to bombers, it was dead meat for the RAF---low, slow, and ponderous.

Jabs made his record over time. I do not find myself running up bags with the 110 on one mission. I have contented myself by driving RAF fighters away from bomber formations one after the other---that, after all, was the job of an escort.

stalkervision
05-05-2007, 02:11 PM
That's exactly the way you should fly the me- 110 leitmotiv. It fits it to a tee.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-05-2007, 03:18 PM
Properly handled, I find the 110 a truly religous experience---especially when you have a clear, point-blank shot at something! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
05-05-2007, 03:23 PM
LMAO.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

just took on four p-47 in qmb Il-2 1946 agains't four 110's. After a bit of dogfighting we took out all four 47's with the loss of one 110.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-05-2007, 03:53 PM
The 110 can be surprising. Jabs shot down two Spitfire IXs during the day, late in the war, with his night fighter G model 110, with full radar array! These were two battles for which I would like the details! He was an old fox, I'd wager he sneaked up on them, but you never know.

stalkervision
05-05-2007, 05:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The 110 can be surprising. Jabs shot down two Spitfire IXs during the day, late in the war, with his night fighter G model 110, with full radar array! These were two battles for which I would like the details! He was an old fox, I'd wager he sneaked up on them, but you never know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's amazing that he did it with a full antennas array! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Knocks 30 mph miles per hour off the 110's top speed I believe. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

leitmotiv
05-05-2007, 05:38 PM
I'd give anything to know the circumstances. Considering Jabs did quite well in the B of Brit in a 110, I wish somebody would do a study of him. I'm going to bolt over to my Ospreys and see what my 110 aces volume has to say about him.

stalkervision
05-06-2007, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I'd give anything to know the circumstances. Considering Jabs did quite well in the B of Brit in a 110, I wish somebody would do a study of him. I'm going to bolt over to my Ospreys and see what my 110 aces volume has to say about him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you find out anything more let me know will you? I am amazed by this guy.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

249th_Maico
05-06-2007, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badatit:
You forgot multiplayer.

Oh yeah, that's right...it dosent support multiplayer...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has a cool tactical/stratagy map.
It has Spits.
It has 109's.
It supports track IR.
It dosent hold a candle to IL2.
It got uninstalled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Its pretty for about a day. Then you want to do something with it and realize... What AM I DOING HERE!?!?! On paper so many want to beat IL2 but in reality... NOBODY Does it like Oleg. I tried BOB in its initial form and they got me again with BOB II. I got over it in about a week. Been playing IL2 for the last six years.

Aaron_GT
05-06-2007, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It has a cool tactical/stratagy map. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a 1985-retro sort of way...

Brownba
05-06-2007, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 249th_Maico:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badatit:



You forgot offline single player.

Oh yeah, that's right...IL2 '46 fails offline...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has no tactical/stratagy map.
It has Yaks.
It has 109's.
It even has teh Lerche LOLZ!
It supports track IR.
It has a cartoon landscape.
It has a single layer of little cottonballs right above the deck that they expect me see as realistic clouds.
It has silly laser tracers.
It has nifty Hollywood-Spielberg kind of effects.
It has a boring, sterile dynamic campaign envirionment.
It has weak sounds for engines/guns.
It has bad AI. Engines that fly at 110% with no overheat and perfect trim settings - give me a break.
It dosent hold a candle to BoB2:WoV.
It got uninstalled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Its pretty for about a day. Then you want to do something with it and realize... What AM I DOING HERE!?!?! On paper so many want to beat BoB2 but in reality... NOBODY Does it like Shockwave. I tried IL2 in its initial form and they got me again with Pacific Fighters. I got over it in about a week. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FIXED - Keep your Air Quake 1946.

joeap
05-06-2007, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:


FIXED - I'm a lameass who should keep comments to myself and stop stirring the pot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We like to see both sims flourish mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif

Huxley_S
05-06-2007, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">feel free to refute the shortcomings I pointed out in my post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IL2's 3rd party dynamic and static offline campaigns are great fun. There is a career mode with ranks and medals that you don't get in BoBII.

The fist time you hear a 'flyby' in BoBII you think wow. Then you hear it again, exactly the same sample, and again and again. Then you realise how good IL2's sounds are in comparison because they are not simply samples someone recorded at an airshow.

The landscape in IL2 can be stunning. In BoBII everything looks painted on to the ground.

The clouds in IL2 are small but well done. They look best in 3rd party missions where time of day and cloud height can produce beautiful effects.

Tracers in IL2... possibly a bit unrealistic but no immersion killer.

AI is much better in IL2. At the moment in BoBII you can kill an ace AI simply by taking the fight to the deck and flying in circles. Eventually the enemy will attempt a downward manoeuvre and crash. I believe this is due to be fixed in the next patch.

Brownba
05-06-2007, 03:21 PM
Thx Huxley_S. Yes the career mode and medals are a nice feature of IL2 series. BoB needs something like that.

I really like the flyby sounds in BoB2. You are right, they are all identical but they sound quite real to me. Same with the BoB2 landscape. At height, it looks much more like the world I fly over when i'm in an airplane.

I really have to argue that the clouds in IL2 are well done. BoB2 has much more realistic clouds and weather imo. The single layer of little puffs very low to the ground seem very odd.

I have not fought the ace AI in BoB2 so I can't comment. The lower level AI handily beats me up most of the time. Many fights do end up on the deck and I don't find that the "bad guys" crash into the deck (They usually leave that job to me!).

To all the IL2 guys, I want both (and all) sims to flourish as well. I have contributed to IL2 as well as BoB2:WoV. I own IL2, PF, and even IL2 1946. I posted my opinions here because where else to complain about things that you think could be improved? But after 6 years, many of the same little things that are immersion killers for me are still around.

All the best to SoW:BoB, BoB2, KOTS and Flying Tigers! How lucky we are to have choices and to a place to voice complaints.

joeap
05-06-2007, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:
hello Joeap - feel free to refute the shortcomings I pointed out in my post. Calling someone a lameass on the internet feels good, doesn't it?

Bravo "mate" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About the same as your insulting comment to us to keep our "airquake 46" you could have listed things you dislike and think BoB WoV does better but had to choose the most insulting way to do that so sorry but I'm not sorry. Your exchange with Huxley_S was far more interesting IMO.

leitmotiv
05-06-2007, 04:41 PM
Enough schoolyard spats---here is something important.

OK, stalkervision, I have 110 info from Weal's Osprey MESSERSCHMITT BF110 ZERSTORER ACES OF WORLD WAR II. Only four 110 pilots claimed more than 10 shootdowns in 1940 (Herget, Jabs, Baagoe, Nacke) (page51). Jabs was the top 110 claimer at the end of 1940 with 19 (page51). The standard 110 formation maneuver was a huge offensive circle which was intended to draw defensive fighters onto the 110s instead of the bombers. It was not defensive. The formation advanced with the bombers; it did not remain in the same geographical position. The maneuver succeeded in its aim, and did attract RAF fighters---which clobbered the 110s! (pages 43-44). The Luftwaffe started the B of Brit with 237 servicable 110s, and lost 223 in the campaign (Of course, replacements were being received) (page 51). Ouch.

stalkervision
05-06-2007, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Enough schoolyard spats---here is something important.

OK, stalkervision, I have 110 info from Weal's Osprey MESSERSCHMITT BF110 ZERSTORER ACES OF WORLD WAR II. Only four 110 pilots claimed more than 10 shootdowns in 1940 (Herget, Jabs, Baagoe, Nacke) (page51). Jabs was the top 110 claimer at the end of 1940 with 19 (page51). The standard 110 formation maneuver was a huge offensive circle which was intended to draw defensive fighters onto the 110s instead of the bombers. It was not defensive. The formation advanced with the bombers; it did not remain in the same geographical position. The maneuver succeeded in its aim, and did attract RAF fighters---which clobbered the 110s! (pages 43-44). The Luftwaffe started the B of Brit with 237 servicable 110s, and lost 223 in the campaign (Of course, replacements were being received) (page 51). Ouch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a lot leitmotiv, very interesting info.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-06-2007, 04:54 PM
In other words, stalkervision, Shockwave has to figure out some way to have the AI 110s form a huge circle which will follow the bomber formation at the first sign of an RAF fighter attack, and we have to join the circle!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Chivas
05-06-2007, 06:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:
Thx Huxley_S. Yes the career mode and medals are a nice feature of IL2 series. BoB needs something like that.

I really like the flyby sounds in BoB2. You are right, they are all identical but they sound quite real to me. Same with the BoB2 landscape. At height, it looks much more like the world I fly over when i'm in an airplane.

I really have to argue that the clouds in IL2 are well done. BoB2 has much more realistic clouds and weather imo. The single layer of little puffs very low to the ground seem very odd.

I have not fought the ace AI in BoB2 so I can't comment. The lower level AI handily beats me up most of the time. Many fights do end up on the deck and I don't find that the "bad guys" crash into the deck (They usually leave that job to me!).

To all the IL2 guys, I want both (and all) sims to flourish as well. I have contributed to IL2 as well as BoB2:WoV. I own IL2, PF, and even IL2 1946. I posted my opinions here because where else to complain about things that you think could be improved? But after 6 years, many of the same little things that are immersion killers for me are still around.

All the best to SoW:BoB, BoB2, KOTS and Flying Tigers! How lucky we are to have choices and to a place to voice complaints. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Brownba

I agree, I fly all the combat flight sims and will probably buy the next bunch whoever makes them.

Although I think the opinion of the Il-2 clouds is a misconception. There are a few other cloud types you will find while flying a campaign. Try a quick mission with thunder clouds enabled for example. Also for the better clouds you need to add "TypeClouds=1" in the config-ini.

The IL-2 clouds look too white, but do have some shading. This shading has to be considerably darker for more dramatic affect in some cloud conditions. The shape of the clouds could also be altered for a more towering affect but, I have seen clouds that look like these in some conditions.

Overall I like the clouds in WOV but their shape could be altered as they have much the same geometry on top and bottom.

I prefer the feel of flying thru the clouds in Il-2. There is more a haze effect when flying in and out of the clouds. There is a lesser haze effect in WOV, but when flying out of the cloud, it dramaticly disappears at times.

Both sims clouds need improvement but everything is relative to the codes ability to handle the effect.

~Salute~
Chivas

mbfRoy
05-06-2007, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brownba:



You forgot offline single player.

Oh yeah, that's right...IL2 '46 fails offline...never mind.

I have it. Flew it some.
It had the current patch(s).
It has no tactical/stratagy map.
It has Yaks.
It has 109's.
It even has teh Lerche LOLZ!
It supports track IR.
It has a cartoon landscape.
It has a single layer of little cottonballs right above the deck that they expect me see as realistic clouds.
It has silly laser tracers.
It has nifty Hollywood-Spielberg kind of effects.
It has a boring, sterile dynamic campaign envirionment.
It has weak sounds for engines/guns.
It has bad AI. Engines that fly at 110% with no overheat and perfect trim settings - give me a break.
It dosent hold a candle to BoB2:WoV.
It got uninstalled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Its pretty for about a day. Then you want to do something with it and realize... What AM I DOING HERE!?!?! On paper so many want to beat BoB2 but in reality... NOBODY Does it like Shockwave. I tried IL2 in its initial form and they got me again with Pacific Fighters. I got over it in about a week. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FIXED - Keep your Air Quake 1946. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So in short... IL-2:
*Has no tactical/strategy map other than the one given at each briefing.
*Has a lot more planes, even planes that newer flew.
*Has a better landscape and (by comparision) more detailed at low heights.
*Has clouds that can be set to different heights in the mission builder.
*Has very realistic damage representation, and hit effects
*Has weird colors for some tracers
*Has a dynamic campaign generator
*Has no repetitive flyby sounds that kick in by proximity rather than a plane actually flying by.
*Has AI difficulty settings that's simply too hard for some people appearently.
*Seems to offer a lot more content than BOB:WOV, it's (again, by comparision) extremely more stable, and requires less computer resources.

Yep, and it has multiplayer for air quakers!! and also for those that enjoy coop missions, or flying in historical DF servers with teams using comms to coordinate better, or simply to test certain maneuvers with a friend.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hkuusela
05-07-2007, 12:53 AM
Well, that certainly is the SHORT list. I'm not going to go (again) into what I dislike about IL-2, but that list really flatters it. Not to say it is a bad sim, but it has some annoying features you haven't listed. I wouldn't sing praises for the AI for sure.

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 05:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
In other words, stalkervision, Shockwave has to figure out some way to have the AI 110s form a huge circle which will follow the bomber formation at the first sign of an RAF fighter attack, and we have to join the circle!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe I would get way get too dizzy trying that leitmotiv. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Hell with the allergies I have this season and my inner ears being plugged up I wouldn't know up from down! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It's strange but in some situations with sim games it once and a while feels like I have ridden a rollar coaster one to many times.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Usually though this only happens in Battlefield 1942 secret weapons multiplayer when I play the Hellendorn map and run up and down the stairs in the buildings once to many times in a row. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flight sims don't bother me nearly as much thank god. Heck I can even fly upside down at 100 ft off the ground in a 109 and not get dizzy in them most of the time.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 10:50 AM
Funny you mention allergies, stalkervision, I've been so dorked the past couple weeks my stickcraft has gone to blazes and all I can do is to distribute myself all over the countryside. AGH http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Resorting to THEATRE OF WAR until my inner ears allow flight again. Cheers, Flightless Bird

crazyivan1970
05-07-2007, 10:55 AM
http://www.petcaretips.net/energizer_bunny.gif

Still going... and going... and....

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 10:58 AM
As McWatt in CATCH-22 says "Oh well, what the hell?"

Xiolablu3
05-07-2007, 12:14 PM
http://briananim.kicks-***.net:9000/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=652&g2_serialNumber=1

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Funny you mention allergies, stalkervision, I've been so dorked the past couple weeks my stickcraft has gone to blazes and all I can do is to distribute myself all over the countryside. AGH http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Resorting to THEATRE OF WAR until my inner ears allow flight again. Cheers, Flightless Bird </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haaaa a fellow sufferer! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif I am so loaded on benedral I practically fall asleep at the keyboard.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif Let alone blowing my nose so often I am begining to believe it is a in game "sound effect'... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

The best part is learning how to fly with one hand and blow your nose at the same time with the other! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sneezing all over the monitor is another nice feature.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 01:33 PM
It's snot rocket season alright!

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
It's snot rocket season alright! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I should own stock in the Kleenex company! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 01:45 PM
I should put this one over in NEAS.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Heinrich seeing that he was cornered and out of options with three spitfire on his tail opened his canopy and proceeded to blind all three pilots with a vicious fusilade of SNOT ROCKETS that had been festering in his head from the minute he got up that morning. All three plummeted to earth like wounded ducks their pilots hopelessly blinded by the hot gooy secreations..

Henrich thought to himself after.."well at least my allergies are good for something..!" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
It's snot rocket season alright! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I should own stock in the Kleenex company! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That could mean more than what you think it does... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 01:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">their pilots hopelessly blinded by the hot gooy secreations.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That too... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

jannaspookie
05-07-2007, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">their pilots hopelessly blinded by the hot gooy secreations.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That too... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
It's snot rocket season alright! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I should own stock in the Kleenex company! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That could mean more than what you think it does... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pervert... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 05:05 PM
After three weeks of high winds in the Godforsaken armpit of the Western world (the California Central Valley)---nearly the farthest extremity of the empire and the most questionably valuable---I am reduced to the level of a road kill plowed by at least twenty big rigs. I can't do diddles in 46 except crash. I am reminded of that classic USN fiasco from about 1980 where an A-6 pilot hammered witless by allergies and groggy from Benadryl tried to land on his carrier and pulled off a perfect smash into the stern below the flight deck. Thereafter, Benadryl and all allergy drugs were banned. Did they ban allergy-ridden pilots? I hope so. Admiral Rickover

stalkervision
05-07-2007, 05:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
After three weeks of high winds in the Godforsaken armpit of the Western world (the California Central Valley)---nearly the farthest extremity of the empire and the most questionably valuable---I am reduced to the level of a road kill plowed by at least twenty big rigs.

LMAO.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



I can't do diddles in 46 except crash. I am reminded of that classic USN fiasco from about 1980 where an A-6 pilot hammered witless by allergies and groggy from Benadryl tried to land on his carrier and pulled off a perfect smash into the stern below the flight deck. Therafter, Benadryl and all allergy drugs were banned. Did they ban allergy-ridden pilots? I hope so. Admiral Rickover </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope so to. At least at Airshows anyway! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

and this is why I will never play "Pacific Fighters" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 05:39 PM
I won't even look at a carrier when I'm whacked---I've pulled off some truly spectacular ramp strikes---while completely fine!

LStarosta
05-07-2007, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
After three weeks of high winds in the Godforsaken armpit of the Western world (the California Central Valley)---nearly the farthest extremity of the empire and the most questionably valuable---I am reduced to the level of a road kill plowed by at least twenty big rigs. I can't do diddles in 46 except crash. I am reminded of that classic USN fiasco from about 1980 where an A-6 pilot hammered witless by allergies and groggy from Benadryl tried to land on his carrier and pulled off a perfect smash into the stern below the flight deck. Thereafter, Benadryl and all allergy drugs were banned. Did they ban allergy-ridden pilots? I hope so. Admiral Rickover </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LoL they are real picky with the DoDMERB. Just deny that you have allergies if you haven't been diagnosed with them. That goes with pretty much everything.

I consider myself fortunate because we were pretty damn poor when I was growing up as a little kid, so if I had "attention deficit" or "breathing problems", I had to suck it up because we couldn't afford to see a doctor for every tiny little thing that nowadays could have me DQ'd from any kind of military service, let alone air crew!

leitmotiv
05-07-2007, 07:17 PM
I was fortunate in enjoying a hale and hearty misspent youth and became a basket case later in life in compensation. Very Newtonian.

TheGozr
05-08-2007, 03:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6nyllOUdA4&mode=related&search=

Bearcat99
05-08-2007, 07:28 AM
Thats a nice video Gozr.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif