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xbg101
11-18-2010, 08:12 PM
i started this thread to discuss the ending of assassins creed brotherhood and the truth in the game. feel free to post your oppinions on the ending *SPOILER* (highlight to read) <span class="ev_code_WHITE">when desmond kills lucy and the goddess person tells you to find her and whatever</span>. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

xbg101
11-18-2010, 08:12 PM
i started this thread to discuss the ending of assassins creed brotherhood and the truth in the game. feel free to post your oppinions on the ending *SPOILER* (highlight to read) <span class="ev_code_WHITE">when desmond kills lucy and the goddess person tells you to find her and whatever</span>. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Radman500
11-18-2010, 08:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xbg101:
i started this thread to discuss the ending of assassins creed brotherhood and the truth in the game. feel free to post your oppinions on the ending *SPOILER* (highlight to read) <span class="ev_code_WHITE">when desmond kills lucy and the goddess person tells you to find her and whatever</span>. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

check out my plot-hole thread... it is a pretty big one..... read it, and give me your opinion

Radman500
11-18-2010, 08:23 PM
but besides that.. the ending was pretty cool

what i learned is that there are 6 senses in the AC universe... i mean we got the traditional senses

sight, hearing, touching, smell, and taste..

however we also have knowledge.. which only the "Those who came before" had.. they locked it away from humans.. and i guess minerva wants Desmond to obtain the sixth sense.. KNOWLEDGE.. but he has to do it alone.. so minerva forces desmond to kill lucy.. and then shaun and rebecca dissapear (probably from the apple)....

so desmond fainted... but then in the credits we hear 2 people talk about putting him back on the animus.. him most likely desmond.... so 2 men rescued desmond.. and i have a hunch 1 of them is the infamous Subject 16, the other could possibly be daniel cross (comic book guy)

that is about it

MT4K
11-18-2010, 08:33 PM
why do you say there is only 6 senses in the ac universe?, did minerva actively say "the 6th sense of knowledge"? if not, then why assume there is only 6 when in reality there is far more than 6 senses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUn7zy8Ya20

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Radman500
11-18-2010, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MT4K:
why do you say there is only 6 senses in the ac universe?, did minerva actively say "the 6th sense of knowledge"? if not, then why assume there is only 6 when in reality there is far more than 6 senses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUn7zy8Ya20

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im talking about the traditional 5 senses... anyways KNOWLEDGE is what minerva wants Desmond to obtain.. and he can only do it alone.. so that is why she had him kill lucy

Piflik
11-18-2010, 08:40 PM
Minerva wants Desmond to find Eve, the same said Subject 16, or rather his Deus in Machina...he also mentioned Desmond's son and implied that not Desmond, but his son will be the savior of the earth...I guess that the real 'protagonist' of the AC series is not Desmond, but his son and he is experiencing Desmond's memories. The voices heard during the credits might be the ones looking after him...

...in fact, if Ubisoft wants to, they could easily add layer after layer of nested memories...maybe the whole game is set in the year 3 billion... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Radman500
11-18-2010, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
Minerva wants Desmond to find Eve, the same said Subject 16, or rather his Deus in Machina...he also mentioned Desmond's son and implied that not Desmond, but his son will be the savior of the earth...I guess that the real 'protagonist' of the AC series is not Desmond, but his son and he is experiencing Desmond's memories. The voices heard during the credits might be the ones looking after him...

...in fact, if Ubisoft wants to, they could easily add layer after layer of nested memories...maybe the whole game is set in the year 3 billion... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so basically the whole time.. we have been playing through desmond's son's memories...... in AC1 and AC2, and brotherhood.. so its basically animus within an animus.. wow... actully what a pretty cool plot twister.. it sounds like inception.. but pretty cool

EoT.Patton
11-18-2010, 09:30 PM
The ending really has me for a loop too. I sadly missed much of Minerva's conversation while I was trying to hop around on those ledges to get to the apple, so, I am glad to read much of it here.

A Memory within a Memory. Definitely some Inception stuff right here! Haha. Can't wait for, hopefully, the next AC! I did however really like playing as Ezio, probably my favorite character out of any game I've ever played... And that's a lot of games. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

The ending had me even thinking all day at work today. It's amazing how well the developers really suck you into the game. Good job on them!!

Radman500
11-18-2010, 09:53 PM
i cant wait to get people's theories on the whole "Desmond's Son is the true savior" thing and stuff, and the "memory within a memory" theory and stuff

Radman500
11-18-2010, 10:31 PM
maybe desmond's son is desmond miles Jr... and when minerva is talking about desmond... she is actully talking to desmond's son.. junior.... when she said "its all up to you desmond" she meant Junior.. not father desmond..

man i love this story i can come up with many theories

EmperorxZurg
11-18-2010, 11:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:

so desmond fainted... but then in the credits we hear 2 people talk about putting him back on the animus.. him most likely desmond.... so 2 men rescued desmond.. and i have a hunch 1 of them is the infamous Subject 16, the other could possibly be daniel cross (comic book guy)

that is about it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, hold your little conspiracy train, man. Subject 16 has been long dead. Lucy even said so IN the game

sassiecas
11-19-2010, 02:00 AM
yeah but there are hints that lucy can't be trusted in the gameplay and from minerva too. So technically Subject 16 could still be alive... if you go back and listen to his voice on ACII and then in the credits on ACB one of the voices sounds similar but without the technical distortion....

redsoxdani
11-19-2010, 02:22 AM
everyone says that Lucy is dead. We are not certain of this,nothing is ever as it seems in this game, she simply fell to the floor once stabbed as did Desmond, maybe there is another twist to this, a twist within a twist?

SWJS
11-19-2010, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">then in the credits on ACB one of the voices sounds similar but without the technical distortion.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They actually sounded like those guards at the beginning of AC2. I wonder, could 16 have killed a guard and taken his position to look after new subjects?

gedads
11-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Worst ending ever made... Nothing explained in the 1"30 it last, but i'm happy i've learned the name of all the marketing team in the 20 minutes of credits..

Ok, now give me back my money...

X10J
11-19-2010, 02:28 PM
Anybody notice the William person in the e-mails? I think it is he and someone else that are talking in the credits, and that one of the purposes of that conversation is to let you keep playing as Ezio. Furthermore I think that William is Desmond's father.

Radman500
11-19-2010, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and someone else that are talking in the credits, and that one of the purposes of that conversation is to let you keep playing as Ezio. Furthermore I think that William is Desmond's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i want to know if the whole desmond's son thing is mentioned in the ACB ending.. i missed basically everything minerva said

Davo338
11-19-2010, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:

so desmond fainted... but then in the credits we hear 2 people talk about putting him back on the animus.. him most likely desmond.... so 2 men rescued desmond.. and i have a hunch 1 of them is the infamous Subject 16, the other could possibly be daniel cross (comic book guy)

that is about it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, hold your little conspiracy train, man. Subject 16 has been long dead. Lucy even said so IN the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah ah ah.. careful now. He's quite possibly NOT dead. The achievement you unlock for solving all Subject 16's puzzles is ".. .- — .- .-.. .. …- ." That is Morse Code for "I am alive" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I believe Subject 16 is one of the 2 voices in the credits. Thoughts anyone?

X10J
11-19-2010, 02:58 PM
He's probably the one who says "I'm the expert!"

xbg101
11-19-2010, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davo338:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:

so desmond fainted... but then in the credits we hear 2 people talk about putting him back on the animus.. him most likely desmond.... so 2 men rescued desmond.. and i have a hunch 1 of them is the infamous Subject 16, the other could possibly be daniel cross (comic book guy)

that is about it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, hold your little conspiracy train, man. Subject 16 has been long dead. Lucy even said so IN the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah ah ah.. careful now. He's quite possibly NOT dead. The achievement you unlock for solving all Subject 16's puzzles is ".. .- — .- .-.. .. …- ." That is Morse Code for "I am alive" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I believe Subject 16 is one of the 2 voices in the credits. Thoughts anyone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats trippy.....

X10J
11-19-2010, 11:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and someone else that are talking in the credits, and that one of the purposes of that conversation is to let you keep playing as Ezio. Furthermore I think that William is Desmond's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i want to know if the whole desmond's son thing is mentioned in the ACB ending.. i missed basically everything minerva said </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In relation, Truth spoiler, 3:55 here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QurE-EzN8vY) spoilerific white text about the vid incoming <span class="ev_code_WHITE">when I did this part I had subs on and they read as follows: "The Sun... your son... too weak...must replinish energy."</span>

pirate_dad
11-19-2010, 11:53 PM
I thought I read somewhere that the "I am alive" is a nod to a Ubi game that was in development called, I Am Alive. I looked it up and it seemed interesting.

http://iamalivegame.us.ubi.com/

X10J
11-20-2010, 12:04 AM
yea, but, if so that would've a huge oversight on the devs part.

truth spoiler: They had to know that people would scouring this game with fine toothed comb for info. Attaching an eye catchingly encoded message to a dead person which, when decoded indicates that he may not be, would be a huge mistake if it's just a referance to a differant game.

pirate_dad
11-20-2010, 12:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X10J:
yea, but, if so that would've a huge oversight on the devs part.

truth spoiler: They had to know that people would scouring this game with fine toothed comb for info. Attaching an eye catchingly encoded message to a dead person which, when decoded indicates that he may not be, would be a huge mistake if it's just a referance to a differant game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I completely agree with you here. The fact though, that it could go either way makes me wonder. But I will continue to believe that it is only in reference to AC:BH.

X10J
11-20-2010, 12:15 AM
yea these devs are pretty smart they would'nt miss something like this.

unless this is a diabolical diversion.

SWJS
11-20-2010, 03:43 AM
Um, guys, the Son theory is absolutely false, you know that right? IF Desmond has a kid, it has to be before the cataclysm, which is only a month or so away. So... Desmond's infant son is reliving his memories and must save the world before December 21st? Hahahah, no.

Minerva says "it's up to you Desmond." On the pause screen for the modern day, there's no DNA option or anything. That's all going on for real. Either Desmond saves us, or the world ends. His kid, if he even gets to have one, has nothing to do with this.

William could possibly be Desmond's father, as his last initial is M, but it's unlikely since he has no idea where his son is.

There's no definitave proof Lucy's dead, she could have just gone comatose. Juno states that a blood sacrifice is needed to open the path. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone has to die, it just means they need blood.

The two men at the end are probably talking about Desmond. He was the one reliving Ezio's memories, and he even goes unconcious after stabbing Lucy. I'd go into shock too if a dead hologram lady took over my body and forced me to stab the woman I loved.

Piflik
11-20-2010, 05:36 AM
Actually Abstergo's satellite launch is in 72 Days from AC:B...the cataclysm's date is not really specified...

Ruscris
11-20-2010, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
Actually Abstergo's satellite launch is in 72 Days from AC:B...the cataclysm's date is not really specified... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
72 days till 21 December 2012..
(Lucy said right before the ending that 'today' is 10th Octomber)
Also, i think lucy won't be dead for good, maybe she will be raised again, if desmond gets somehow the shield.

Cougar24
11-20-2010, 09:04 AM
Anyone get out of the Animus and listen to some conversations that Rebecca and Desmond were having? It made Lucy sound like she was going to screw us. Desmond was asking Rebecca where she got schematics for the animus, and Rebecca said Lucy got them to her. Then he said, "I didn't think she was able to get any information out" or something like that.

Another conversation that would implicate Lucy was when you were talking to her about passwords, and how she has gotten all the info she has. She replies that some passwords still work and that's how she's able to get all the info they currently have.

Just a thought... When I saw the ending, my arms shot up and I screamed, "CALLED IT!"

ijacen
11-20-2010, 09:13 AM
The conversation between 16 and Desmond after the cluster puzzles does support the Son theory.

You hear 16 mention something about it being "far later than you know, too late to save them" " Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear is already gone" He also mentions something about "The sun/son, .. your son"



That could possibly be a message about the future, maybe 16 has the sixth sense Juno is talking about, knowledge? That could possibly lead to knowing everything, past and present right?

edzone96
11-20-2010, 09:40 AM
damn, This game's story is just awsome!
But yeah it could be that we arn't Desmond but his son, but it cant be :s or can it? Damn, i need to unlock the new truth in this game. But can anyone explain more about the ending? I did'nt seem to get it...

bennyboo17
11-20-2010, 10:18 AM
okay, im not sure where but i know subject 16 is alive. correct me if im wrong cuz i just beat it last night but i think at the end of the truth videos which i havent completed, it says "i am alive" refering to subject 16 and i think that one of the two voices can very possibly be him and the other William fom the emails that lucy sends to headquarters. i think he and 16 somehow found eachother and are tracking desmond down. we all know 16 and desmond are related correct? so i wouldnt be suprised if we see something with the two of them(next game), and i think that when they are talkin in the credits where one of them says (rough remembering) "im the expert, put him back in." i think its 16 becasue he has hacked the animus and even if he is crazy i think he might have found a way to keep it under control. with ubi behind this anythings a possibilty so i dunno theres a theory for you all

SWJS
11-20-2010, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">we all know 16 and desmond are related correct? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, recent theories could prove this to be false. 16 placing the glyphs in Ezio's time could be from the fact that, while reliving the memories of Adam, he could have gained the sixth sense of Knowledge and formulated a complex plan to show the revelations that he's had to Desmond. This means that they don't have to be related, or share a common ancestor. As a matter of fact, 16 may just be a mentor to Desmond, sending him clues to help him learn more about the Templar conspiracies.

The two people at the end sounded like Abstergo guards too. It makes me wonder if 16 escaped Abstergo's custody by hiding in plain sight. Could he have killed a guard and stolen his uniform? Therefore he could have orchestrated for there to be less guards when Lucy started the Escape. Just as well, Lucy doesn't need to be a templar to hack the mainframe, just look at 16, he hacked the friggin animus.

That means that Juno may have had Desmond kill/stab Lucy because of his feelings for her, or just because a blood sacrifice was needed to open the gate. When she said the cross must be balanced, she may have ment that Abstergo could have tracked Lucy's hacks and found them that way, so while Lucy wasn't a templar, her access of the templar mainframe could have still posed a threat, unknowingly to them.

That being said, the two guys at the end could likely be 16, having been following them the entire time, who could have then contacted William and then helped recover Desmond. They were definately talking about Desmond in the end, because the memories of Ezio are continued. The 2012 cataclysm happens on December 21st, and the event in the apple chamber happens on October 10th. Desmond's child couldn't be the real hero. He'd still be an infant by the cataclysm, so the whole "Desmond's son" theory is trumped.

16th Truth message seems to have been written when he was/is still crazy. Let's not forget that not all minds can't withstand knowledge. Remember what happened to Mario and Niccolo when Leonardo activated the Apple? 16 may have the sixth sense of knowledge, but that doesn't mean that he knows how to use or control it. His messages may not even mean anything for all we know. Or, he could just be playing crazy to hide his true plans or motives, and he's really more knowledgable than we know. Therefore, the truth could just be a set of clues for Desmond to follow.

Of course, we'll never know until AC3 comes out, but from all we learned from Brotherhood, the Desmonds Son theory doesn't hold much water.

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">we all know 16 and desmond are related correct? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, recent theories could prove this to be false. 16 placing the glyphs in Ezio's time could be from the fact that, while reliving the memories of Adam, he could have gained the sixth sense of Knowledge and formulated a complex plan to show the revelations that he's had to Desmond. This means that they don't have to be related, or share a common ancestor. As a matter of fact, 16 may just be a mentor to Desmond, sending him clues to help him learn more about the Templar conspiracies.

The two people at the end sounded like Abstergo guards too. It makes me wonder if 16 escaped Abstergo's custody by hiding in plain sight. Could he have killed a guard and stolen his uniform? Therefore he could have orchestrated for there to be less guards when Lucy started the Escape. Just as well, Lucy doesn't need to be a templar to hack the mainframe, just look at 16, he hacked the friggin animus.

That means that Juno may have had Desmond kill/stab Lucy because of his feelings for her, or just because a blood sacrifice was needed to open the gate. When she said the cross must be balanced, she may have ment that Abstergo could have tracked Lucy's hacks and found them that way, so while Lucy wasn't a templar, her access of the templar mainframe could have still posed a threat, unknowingly to them.

That being said, the two guys at the end could likely be 16, having been following them the entire time, who could have then contacted William and then helped recover Desmond. They were definately talking about Desmond in the end, because the memories of Ezio are continued. The 2012 cataclysm happens on December 21st, and the event in the apple chamber happens on October 10th. Desmond's child couldn't be the real hero. He'd still be an infant by the cataclysm, so the whole "Desmond's son" theory is trumped.

16th Truth message seems to have been written when he was/is still crazy. Let's not forget that not all minds can't withstand knowledge. Remember what happened to Mario and Niccolo when Leonardo activated the Apple? 16 may have the sixth sense of knowledge, but that doesn't mean that he knows how to use or control it. His messages may not even mean anything for all we know. Or, he could just be playing crazy to hide his true plans or motives, and he's really more knowledgable than we know. Therefore, the truth could just be a set of clues for Desmond to follow.

Of course, we'll never know until AC3 comes out, but from all we learned from Brotherhood, the Desmonds Son theory doesn't hold much water. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it doesn't hold that much theory.. yet subject 16 said something about desmond's son..

so you think the creators just added the whole thing for kicks and giggles

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:10 PM
to EZIO the assassin..


it could be possible that the doomsday event was halted and did not take place during 2012.. but was delayed by desmond, knowing that his son would have to stop it one day.. so when it came around 2030-2040.. desmond's son would rise and stop it once and for all


also maybe desmond did stop the whole doomsday event, but there is a bigger threat that rises, and desmond is to weak to fight it.. so desmond's son rises and fights against it..

there are many theories.......... when it comes to the desmond's son/./

SWJS
11-20-2010, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">subject 16 said something about desmond's son </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A supposedly insane, supposedly dead man somehow saw the future and decided to leave this random guy he doesn't even know clues about the Templar conspiracy, just to culminate into a message mentioning a "son" for three seconds before completely changing the subject?

How does something that ridiculously absurd make Desmond's non-existant son the real main character of the series? Desmond is clearly the focus of the series, always has been, and always will be. The developers themselves said so. You're going to take something that a background character says, over what the developers say?

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:17 PM
my final theory:

Desmond's son is the true savior of the planet

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">subject 16 said something about desmond's son </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A supposedly insane, supposedly dead man somehow saw the future and decided to leave this random guy he doesn't even know clues about the Templar conspiracy, just to culminate into a message mentioning a "son" for three seconds before completely changing the subject?

How does something that ridiculously absurd make Desmond's non-existant son the real main character of the series? Desmond is clearly the focus of the series, always has been, and always will be. The developers themselves said so. You're going to take something that a background character says, over what the developers say? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then why would they mention his son then... what for kicks and giggles

the developers were just like...


"oh we just going to have this nonexistant character mention desmond's son.. but still he will have no role in AC3"

yeah were have subject 16 mention something about desmond's son, but thats about it

just cause you dont want the whole "son theory" to happen doesn't mean it holds little water..

SWJS
11-20-2010, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it could be possible that the doomsday event was halted and did not take place during 2012.. but was delayed by desmond, knowing that his son would have to stop it one day.. so when it came around 2030-2040.. desmond's son would rise and stop it once and for all


also maybe desmond did stop the whole doomsday event, but there is a bigger threat that rises, and desmond is to weak to fight it.. so desmond's son rises and fights against it.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>While possible, there are still several plot holes in this theory. Such as Minerva addressing Desmond. If it were up to his son, why would she say it was up to him? Juno also cleary says Desmond himself must do it, and do it alone, hence why he was forced to stab Lucy.

Everything focuses on Desmond. The only person who ever mentions the word 'son' is 16, and I find him to be less credible than Minerva or Juno. They're the ones who saw the future, 16's just a supposedly crazy guy driven that way by knowledge that he doesn't know how to use.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just cause you dont want the whole "son theory" to happen doesn't mean it holds little water.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not saying I don't want it to happen. I'm saying that it's full of plot holes, and it makes no sense.

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">subject 16 said something about desmond's son </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A supposedly insane, supposedly dead man somehow saw the future and decided to leave this random guy he doesn't even know clues about the Templar conspiracy, just to culminate into a message mentioning a "son" for three seconds before completely changing the subject?

How does something that ridiculously absurd make Desmond's non-existant son the real main character of the series? Desmond is clearly the focus of the series, always has been, and always will be. The developers themselves said so. You're going to take something that a background character says, over what the developers say? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you dont think ubisoft could think of anything.. ever heard of retcons...

this is fiction.. there is no such thing as "plot-holes" cause the developers can just come up with anything else, even it does sound really ridiciouls.. thus erasing the plot hole..


maybe minerva, and juno do not want to tell desmond about his son being the true savior.. idk why.. maybe theres a reason, i think ubisoft could think of something..

maybe desmond is the "savior" in the sense he stopped the doomsday event, but maybe another thread rose up. and desmond could not stop it, so its up to desmond's son to rise against it.

maybe desmond names his son "desmond" so in the vault.. minerva said "its all up to you desmond" she meant desmond's son..

idk man there are many theories i can come up with. that would make sense

but the son is an important character to the story...

SWJS
11-20-2010, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but the son is an important character to the story... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This made me laugh. It's only brought up once, by a background character. That hardly makes it important.

The AC series has one main protagonist: Desmond.

There are three secondary protagonists, Lucy, Shaun, and Rebecca.

There are two major antagonists, Warren Vidic and Alan Rikkin.

There is one background character, Subject 16. This man is supposedly dead, and has only appeared via recordings. He has no actual name as of yet, except for the hinted "Neumann", and he isn't part of the main story or the main conflict.

Therefore, there's very little to solidify anything he says as of yet, and there wont be unless the story introduces him as a secondary protagonist.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">this is fiction.. there is no such thing as "plot-holes" cause the developers can just come up with anything else, even it does sound really ridiciouls.. thus erasing the plot hole.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This also made me laugh. Sir, no offense, but you have no idea how the writing process works. A large arcing conflict, like the AC series, must me tied together and must make sense. If not, you're left with hanging plot threads, and plot holes.

The writers can't simply just throw away a plot to focus on some minor detail. It doesn't work that way. And if they were to retcon anything, they would have to retcon the entire AC series to make it make sense. The main games are canon, the only thing Ubisoft could retcon is their expanded universe, which is very small.

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just throw away a plot to focus on some minor detail. It doesn't work that way. And if they were to retcon anything, they would have to retcon the entire AC series to make it make sense. The main games are canon, the only thing Ubisoft could retcon is their expanded universe, which is very small. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


i think desmond is suppose to find the descendant of eve.. as he is a decesdant of adam.. and have a baby to start the "bloodline" of the percursurs again

Radman500
11-20-2010, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just throw away a plot to focus on some minor detail. It doesn't work that way. And if they were to retcon anything, they would have to retcon the entire AC series to make it make sense. The main games are canon, the only thing Ubisoft could retcon is their expanded universe, which is very small. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


i think desmond is suppose to find the descendant of eve.... and have a baby to start the "bloodline" of the percursurs again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theassassin4756
11-20-2010, 02:38 PM
I think that the we have all been seeing Desmond's memories from Desmond himself while in an animus at Assassins HQ...
I Have to go with Ezio here..the son thing is getting blown out of proportion... this could have been added to throw people of the real thing thats happening here. and it is possible that its a subtitle error...

Radman500
11-20-2010, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theassassin4756:
I think that the we have all been seeing Desmond's memories from Desmond himself while in an animus at Assassins HQ...
I Have to go with Ezio here..the son thing is getting blown out of proportion... this could have been added to throw people of the real thing thats happening here. and it is possible that its a subtitle error... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> it isn't a subtitle error

cause you hear subject 16 say "the sun.. your son"

i dont think its blown out of proportion.. it think desmond's son is the true savior

Radman500
11-20-2010, 03:21 PM
actully another good theory is that

minerva/juno want desmond to find SHE.. the descendant of eve and to make a baby.. to rebuild the ancient TWCB bloodline again.. and i think when subject 16 mentions desmond's son.. hes talking about desmond's son beign the first of the new TWCB bloodline


basically minerva/juno want desmond to recreate the TWCB bloodline

Theassassin4756
11-20-2010, 03:38 PM
the bloodline is still intact.... Altair.. Ezio.. Desmond...

xsatanicjokerx
11-20-2010, 05:51 PM
Why do people think that is Minerva when its so obvious not and what Shawn said about that place being built over the temple of Juno sorta tells you who it is.

RiTCHi3x
11-20-2010, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i think desmond is suppose to find the descendant of eve.. as he is a decesdant of adam.. and have a baby to start the "bloodline" of the percursurs again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is what i think could be but tbh any of the theorys could be true.

AltairsSword18
11-20-2010, 07:18 PM
Just finished this part myself... and im baffled. What happened to Shaun and the other girl then? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif


Glad I didnt purchase Black Ops over this... that ending just wants me to go on to see what happens next. Fingers crossed for a AC4?

xsatanicjokerx
11-20-2010, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AltairsSword18:
Fingers crossed for a AC4? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean ac3

AltairsSword18
11-20-2010, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xsatanicjokerx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AltairsSword18:
Fingers crossed for a AC4? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean ac3 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope... four. We had AC with Altair, the Second was last year with Ezio and this year being brotherhood. Unless your going by Characters then yes three

xav-king
11-20-2010, 07:58 PM
And if... subject 16 and William M. (probably Miles) where the same person? And if... that only one person, was Desmond's father? It would explain a lot of thing... no? Who is this william, why is he talking with lucy, why is subject 16 helping desmond, HOW can help desmond if he is ''dead'' and finaly, is he realy dead? And if Desmond's father is an assassin, it would explain why in the first Ac game, they say that desmond has ''no parents''... maybe subject16/his father/william. m. left him alone when he was a kid, to keep him away from the conflict between the templars and the assassins...

flyingeaglemile
11-20-2010, 08:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xav-king:
And if... subject 16 and William M. (probably Miles) where the same person? And if... that only one person, was Desmond's father? It would explain a lot of thing... no? Who is this william, why is he talking with lucy, why is subject 16 helping desmond, HOW can help desmond if he is ''dead'' and finaly, is he realy dead? And if Desmond's father is an assassin, it would explain why in the first Ac game, they say that desmond has ''no parents''... maybe subject16/his father/william. m. left him alone when he was a kid, to keep him away from the conflict between the templars and the assassins... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, Desmond ran off from his parents because he didn`t want to be an assassin. He was born in a small "farm" with about 30 people in it isolated from the rest of the world who were all probably Assassins.

reedfelder
11-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Ok all I want to know is; at the end of the game <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">After you kill lucy and retrieve the apple,</span> and after the end credits, do you get to keep playing in the animus, or do you have to start a new game to be in the animus again?

flyingeaglemile
11-20-2010, 08:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by reedfelder:
Ok all I want to know is; at the end of the game <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">After you kill lucy and retrieve the apple,</span> and after the end credits, do you get to keep playing in the animus, or do you have to start a new game to be in the animus again? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After the credits you continue to play as Ezio and you can do all the side missions and anything you missed. Kinda like how AC2 ended.

SWJS
11-20-2010, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who is this william </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
William's obviously a contact from Assassin HQ. He even tells Lucy they'll be visiting HQ when they secure the apple. He may possibly be Grand Master.

Sparty2020
11-20-2010, 09:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
actully another good theory is that

minerva/juno want desmond to find SHE.. the descendant of eve and to make a baby.. to rebuild the ancient TWCB bloodline again.. and i think when subject 16 mentions desmond's son.. hes talking about desmond's son beign the first of the new TWCB bloodline


basically minerva/juno want desmond to recreate the TWCB bloodline </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So far that is the most logical theory about the "Son" (until more than a 2 second mention comes up I'm assuming its a subtitle error) and his role in the game.

E-Zekiel
11-20-2010, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">just throw away a plot to focus on some minor detail. It doesn't work that way. And if they were to retcon anything, they would have to retcon the entire AC series to make it make sense. The main games are canon, the only thing Ubisoft could retcon is their expanded universe, which is very small. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


i think desmond is suppose to find the descendant of eve.. as he is a decesdant of adam.. and have a baby to start the "bloodline" of the percursurs again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Boy it'd suck if that's Lucy.

Unless she didn't die. Which I hope is the case, because I would really prefer plot-wise that she not die.

john63
11-20-2010, 11:59 PM
I agree with Radman, at least in part.

Subject 16 says to find Eve, and that her DNA was the key to... something. Finding her could explain the origins of Desmond's son, and imply that Desmond's son is important, although I agree with Eziotheassassin; there's no way that he can be the ACTUAL protagonist/person who stops the cataclysm. There's just no time.

Juno also suggests that Desmond needs to find some woman (maybe Eve);

"The final journey commences, there is one who would accompany you, she lies not within our sight (maybe meaning she's not in the room)...the path must be opened (maybe for this new girl to meet with desmond?)... we must guide you... *lucy killed* It is done, the way lies all before you, only she remains to be found."

That, to me, sounds like Desmond is supposed to have a son with this other woman, and Juno made him kill Lucy because he already had feelings for her, so she'd be in the way.

Finding a woman who was part TWCB would cause Desmond's son to potentially regain this 6th sense, which could have great use for future generations of assassins.

The only issue is that, at least according to this link, Eve isn't related to those who came before, she's just a human who became self-aware and semi-resistant to the piece of eden.

http://gameinformer.com/b/feat...-creed-timeline.aspx (http://gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/10/28/the-authoritative-assassin-s-creed-timeline.aspx)

It was the assassins who were human-TWCB hybrids, which suggests that eagle vision is a diluted form of TWCB's 6th sense. (Juno said they tried to spread this ability/sense to humans through cross breeding, but that the process was incomplete.)

Sparty2020
11-21-2010, 01:17 AM
Maybe Eve isn't supposed to be one of TWCB but rather she holds the "second half" to the DNA. It could be possible that TWCB, in their knowledge of the future, selected and modified two of their creations (Adam and Eve) from the hybrids. The modified DNA each hold a "key" that would be useless without the other.

/sigh, all these half-nut conspiracy theories must be contagious. If only you could replay the Truth and the ending

oricle
11-21-2010, 02:29 AM
heres what i think will happen later in the series. the Templars/abstergo want the pieces of eden to influence humanity via satellite. i think the assassins will fail to protect the pieces of eden from the templars. and the sun is also dieing. "Running out of energy" i think is how subject 16 put it. so i think the assassins will stage an attack on the satellite launching facility and direct the satellite out of earths orbit and templar control and into the sun therefore refueling it. templars plans are therefore thwarted and the crisis involving a deadly sun related catastrophe is adverted.

also i dont think that desmond has or will have a son in the series. i doubt he had one before he was kidnaped by abstergo because i think he would have mentioned that to vidic after he woke up at abstergo industrys. "i need to get back to my son" or he would at least have said something to him to lucy. i think the only reason subject 16 said "your son" was because he has trouble telling were and when he is and a very unfortunate typo.

L0NELY_WOLF
11-21-2010, 03:20 AM
Can some one please explain why we think it's son not sun?

My understanding is that the world is going to end because of something to do with our sun, yeah?

Chariflame
11-21-2010, 05:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by L0NELY_WOLF:
Can some one please explain why we think it's son not sun?

My understanding is that the world is going to end because of something to do with our sun, yeah? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
During the conversation with Subject 16 once completing The Truth, you can clearly see in the subtitles he says "The sun... your son". He corrects himself.

Also when Juno is talking about the Sixth Sense she says "You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know."
She's quite evidently referencing to the Eagle Vision right? That those from Altair's (and thus Adam's) bloodline have a toned down version of it. This goes with the idea that Desmond needs to have a child with a descendant of Eve, to "complete" the Sixth Sense.

..I think! What I love about this series is the ammount of speculation you can have.

Lights Out Asia
11-21-2010, 08:12 AM
Oh man, I just hope that Lucy isn't actually dead. Like someone else said, I'd rather see the plot continue with her alive. Perhaps stabbing her would put her into shock, making her unable to help Desmond. I don't necessarily think that he needed to kill her, so I hope it's something a bit more like that than her actual dying.

I think the whole theory that Desmond needs to have a child with Eve's descendant makes sense. Makes me wonder what the not-toned down version of Eagle Vision is like haha.

Theassassin4756
11-21-2010, 08:51 AM
ok so Adam and Eve did the naughty thing and had two sons... Cain and Able and Cain snuffed the life out of Able for the Apple of Eden...

The 6th sense is most likely Pre-cog, and Eagle Vison. 16 had both of these but went insane...

And another thing... who says that Desmond has to find EVE in the present... he could go back in the animus to find her as adam which would give us alot more insight into the whole situation..

Perhaps that's why Juno had him stab Lucy to ensure the next focus would be Eve.

And maybe Lucy will get thrown into an animus and it will be revealed that she is a descendant of Eve...

Valaquen_
11-21-2010, 12:07 PM
I suppose the end is setting us up for a female protag in AC3, perhaps Eve or one of her descendents whose memories hold some answers. Or perhaps there are more half-human/TWCB contemporaries for Desmond, maybe female. The mating of the two would not distil the bloodline. I have no idea. Waiting eagerly for the next game.

gedads
11-21-2010, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I suppose the end is setting us up for a female protag in AC3, perhaps Eve or one of her descendents whose memories hold some answers. Or perhaps there are more half-human/TWCB contemporaries for Desmond, maybe female. The mating of the two would not distil the bloodline. I have no idea. Waiting eagerly for the next game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game was good, the ending really bad.
I hope Ubisoft will not fall in the same trap as most of the J-RPG and will not put a female as main character... I'm afraid of that; "Hey i have an idea, let's put a women with a string and big boobs to save the world..." .That's what made me stop playing most of the games recently.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gedads:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I suppose the end is setting us up for a female protag in AC3, perhaps Eve or one of her descendents whose memories hold some answers. Or perhaps there are more half-human/TWCB contemporaries for Desmond, maybe female. The mating of the two would not distil the bloodline. I have no idea. Waiting eagerly for the next game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game was good, the ending really bad.
I hope Ubisoft will not fall in the same trap as most of the J-RPG and will not put a female as main character... I'm afraid of that; "Hey i have an idea, let's put a women with a string and big boobs to save the world..." .That's what made me stop playing most of the games recently. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the ending was awsome.. i love twist endings..

i mean who expected desmond would be forced to kill lucy.. no one... that is why i love the AC series... not for its gameplay, but its story and its history...

xerxesofthe
11-21-2010, 03:55 PM
ok so 16 says " it is far later then you know those you love are gone already" watch termanator 2. the insane girl is saying the same thing " you are all dead alraedy you do not exist!" she saw the future and so did six teen. the satilite is not the only problem at the end of ac2 minerva tells you about the sun exploding, this could hold a relation to 16 " the sun, your son, the energy". so maybe desmond stops abstergo but his son has to stop the sun... oh and sixteen is alive.
and minerva means the descendant of eve when she says " you must find she" so desmond must make his son a pure assassin not half like him self therfore making the most geneticaly powerful assassin ever!

Keksus
11-21-2010, 04:04 PM
Have you ever noticed this:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/od8em4u3.jpg (http://s1.directupload.net/file/u/16337/od8em4u3_jpg.htm) http://s13.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/7frmcm9t.jpg (http://s13.directupload.net/file/u/16337/7frmcm9t_jpg.htm) http://s13.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/ky9jw5j2.jpg (http://s13.directupload.net/file/u/16337/ky9jw5j2_jpg.htm)

So I think one thing is obvious: The templars must know where Desmond and the others are hiding. There are only 2 questions: How did they know and why don't they attack our group?

I think it's possible, that one of our group is a traitor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And maybe Lucy will get thrown into an animus and it will be revealed that she is a descendant of Eve... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought according to the bible every human being is a descendant of Adam and Eve. Because of this I don't really understand that "You must find a descendant of Eve" part of the story.

Oatkeeper
11-21-2010, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keksus:
Have you ever noticed this:

http://s1.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/od8em4u3.jpg (http://s1.directupload.net/file/u/16337/od8em4u3_jpg.htm) http://s13.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/7frmcm9t.jpg (http://s13.directupload.net/file/u/16337/7frmcm9t_jpg.htm) http://s13.directupload.net/images/user/101122/temp/ky9jw5j2.jpg (http://s13.directupload.net/file/u/16337/ky9jw5j2_jpg.htm)

So I think one thing is obvious: The templars must know where Desmond and the others are hiding. There are only 2 questions: How did they know and why don't they attack our group?

I think it's possible, that one of our group is a traitor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And maybe Lucy will get thrown into an animus and it will be revealed that she is a descendant of Eve... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought according to the bible every human being is a descendant of Adam and Eve. Because of this I don't really understand that "You must find a descendant of Eve" part of the story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG that red trail bugged the heck out of me, I eventually decided its either foreboding or its blood left by Ezio during the villa attack.

Technically Adam and eve had 2 sons, and one killed the other, and the one that was still alive married a girl and had children. Where did the girl come from? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Keksus
11-21-2010, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OMG that red trail bugged the heck out of me, I eventually decided its either foreboding or its blood left by Ezio during the villa attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may not see this on the pictures very well, but the red trail are footsteps. A lot of them. And as we know: Everything that appears red in eagle vision isn't friendly. So someone who is opposed to the assassin's is scouting the villa.

Oatkeeper
11-21-2010, 04:56 PM
blood writings in AC1 and the codes to the vualt where all red, and those where friendly

Keksus
11-21-2010, 05:00 PM
But well, do you really believe blood would last for more than hundred years out in the open? During rain and snow for several years? Also it's shaped like footsteps. And why would the blood start and end at some kind of sewer entrance? And why wasn't it there before you entered the villa?

realgangsta213
11-21-2010, 05:29 PM
I thought according to the bible every human being is a descendant of Adam and Eve. Because of this I don't really understand that "You must find a descendant of Eve" part of the story


good point but maybe she's a direct decendant of eve, so the one with the purest bloodline of eve.
I'm still incredibly confused about the story now but can't wait for ac3. Could anyone tell me when subject 16 says your son part. Is it the truth of ac2 or the truth of ac3?

zarigueya2
11-21-2010, 06:27 PM
yeah but if you think it well the first person in the recording was subject 16 or idk and the second one was sam fisher because he is a spy but he has all the assassins powers and maybe hhe is like in the group of US that went missing in one of the mails... so sam fisher and desmond or idk who are going to beat all the templars

realgangsta213
11-21-2010, 06:31 PM
So i'll just combine the two dominating theories on this topic

You most likely do not play as desmonds son but he's the key to saving humanity as both subject sixteen and juno said find her. She being the decendant of eve and therefore them having a baby, desmond's son which has the sixth sense (assuming desmond is decendant of adam).

Also the last cluster of the truth subject sixteen is talking to him in real time so he's alive. He answers his questions and reacts to what desmond says.

Also one thing which irritated me is those last two line of putting him back in the animus. not so much who said them but what they said. "He's going into shock. Put him back in the animus.That's the thing that got him into this condition." This heavily implies that someone is reliving desmond's live because they're not sayiing that the apple got him into shock but reliving memories in the animus.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by realgangsta213:
So i'll just combine the two dominating theories on this topic

You most likely do not play as desmonds son but he's the key to saving humanity as both subject sixteen and juno said find her. She being the decendant of eve and therefore them having a baby, desmond's son which has the sixth sense (assuming desmond is decendant of adam).

Also the last cluster of the truth subject sixteen is talking to him in real time so he's alive. He answers his questions and reacts to what desmond says.

Also one thing which irritated me is those last two line of putting him back in the animus. not so much who said them but what they said. "He's going into shock. Put him back in the animus.That's the thing that got him into this condition." This heavily implies that someone is reliving desmond's live because they're not sayiing that the apple got him into shock but reliving memories in the animus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah.. you will not play as desmond's son most likely... but desmond son is basically the true savior.. as he will have the power of the sixth sense...... desmond's son will also be a full TWCB , not a hybrid half like altair, ezio, desmond........

i have others.. but this is basically my best theory

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 06:50 PM
Counter point to everything on this forum when he attacks lucy could have been a hallucination brought on by him losing his mind like 16..Seriously guys no one thought of that? and the 2 guys we here could just be assassins thinkin oh **** the animus is makin him losee his mind. But they put him back in cause ther desperate? AS for the son theroy. Minerva said he was born from the loins of them and humans so in essance he could be the son meant to save the world and 16 might have mest up his sentence on purpose because ubisoft wanted people to start thinikn in one way when they planned to go a completely diffrent way

Radman500
11-21-2010, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Counter point to everything on this forum when he attacks lucy could have been a hallucination brought on by him losing his mind like 16..Seriously guys no one thought of that? and the 2 guys we here could just be assassins thinkin oh **** the animus is makin him losee his mind. But they put him back in cause ther desperate? AS for the son theroy. Minerva said he was born from the loins of them and humans so in essance he could be the son meant to save the world and 16 might have mest up his sentence on purpose because ubisoft wanted people to start thinikn in one way when they planned to go a completely diffrent way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats a good theory.. but he tells desmond "the sun.. your son" i dont think it was a big mix up


i think desmond's son is the true savior of the world.. he will have full TWCB blood, and not be a hybrid half like altair, ezio, desmond... he will have the sixth sense and save the day

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Counter point to everything on this forum when he attacks lucy could have been a hallucination brought on by him losing his mind like 16..Seriously guys no one thought of that? and the 2 guys we here could just be assassins thinkin oh **** the animus is makin him losee his mind. But they put him back in cause ther desperate? AS for the son theroy. Minerva said he was born from the loins of them and humans so in essance he could be the son meant to save the world and 16 might have mest up his sentence on purpose because ubisoft wanted people to start thinikn in one way when they planned to go a completely diffrent way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats a good theory.. but he tells desmond "the sun.. your son" i dont think it was a big mix up


i think desmond's son is the true savior of the world.. he will have full TWCB blood, and not be a hybrid half like altair, ezio, desmond... he will have the sixth sense and save the day </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Problem with that my friend is taht neither adam or eve wer TWCB they were the first off spring of both so even if desmond and eve had a son it still woudnt be a TWCB

Radman500
11-21-2010, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Counter point to everything on this forum when he attacks lucy could have been a hallucination brought on by him losing his mind like 16..Seriously guys no one thought of that? and the 2 guys we here could just be assassins thinkin oh **** the animus is makin him losee his mind. But they put him back in cause ther desperate? AS for the son theroy. Minerva said he was born from the loins of them and humans so in essance he could be the son meant to save the world and 16 might have mest up his sentence on purpose because ubisoft wanted people to start thinikn in one way when they planned to go a completely diffrent way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats a good theory.. but he tells desmond "the sun.. your son" i dont think it was a big mix up


i think desmond's son is the true savior of the world.. he will have full TWCB blood, and not be a hybrid half like altair, ezio, desmond... he will have the sixth sense and save the day </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Problem with that my friend is taht neither adam or eve wer TWCB they were the first off spring of both so even if desmond and eve had a son it still woudnt be a TWCB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>well the theory on adam and eve... i believe adam and eve are hybrids.. but they were also engineered by the TWCB.. and hold more TWCB blood... adam has 1 half of the dna, while eve has the other half... and if they ever will to unite.. they will have a full TWCB child....


only a full TWCB can unlock the sixth sense.. so desmond cant but a possible son from the union of the descendant of eve can

zarigueya2
11-21-2010, 07:00 PM
now the assassins creeed 3 will take place in france or you will go to france during the french revolution because just before you take the eden fruit shaun says that the phryygian cap and the mason eye have been seen just in one place... The Illuminati Pyramid of Blagnac (france)

DarthEzio55
11-21-2010, 07:00 PM
but they mated, and got cain, and abel both WHO Were not true Twcb

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
but they mated, and got cain, and abel both WHO Were not true Twcb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

there is no evidence that cain and abel were sons of adam and eve in the AC universe

and if they were is also no info that they weren't TWCB....

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 07:02 PM
maybe but then 16s alive thers little disput eof that now the only other possiblity is that desmond son is reliving his fathers memories as a memeber of assassins still fighting the templars after the satellite launch..but that doset make sense because u cnt go inside an animus inside an animus and the disaster is supoosed to occure in 2013 acording to minerva.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">little disput eof that now the only other possiblity is that desmond son is reliving his fathers memories as a memeber of assassins still fighting the templars after the satellite launch..but that doset make sense because u cnt go inside an animus inside an animus and the disaster is supoosed to occ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the reason i believe in the "son" theory is because only a full TWCB can unlock the sixth sense.. desmond is only a hybrid and needs to find the descendant of eve to have a son who will be full twcb and unlock the sixth sense

DarthEzio55
11-21-2010, 07:06 PM
Minerva never said that the world was going to end in 2013

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 07:08 PM
but neither would be full TWCB a hybrid mixed with a hybrid dosent make a pure brid It would only make a new mixture of twcb and human DNA....Wait a minute that might be it the sense isnt meant to come from a TWcb its meant to come from and entirely differnt mix..Also when 16 says shes not who u think she is he might mean Lucy is eve

oricle
11-21-2010, 07:11 PM
i dont understand what people claim Desmond and the descendant of eve (lets just say DOE its faster)have to have a child. juno said they needed Desmond and doe's dna to proceed but that doesn't mean they need to have a child, they may just need to try to use the apple together at the same time. right? did anyone ever say Desmonds son other than subject 16? who is prone to insanity and typos may i add.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
but neither would be full TWCB a hybrid mixed with a hybrid dosent make a pure brid It would only make a new mixture of twcb and human DNA....Wait a minute that might be it the sense isnt meant to come from a TWcb its meant to come from and entirely differnt mix..Also when 16 says shes not who u think she is he might mean Lucy is eve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no what im saying is... adam and eve were modified by the TWCB to hold 1 half of the TWCB genome.. so if they ever united togeather they would have a full TWCB kids..

yes there hybrids... but they were augmented by the TWCB.. for that simple reason..

do you get what im saying slater???

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oricle:
i dont understand what people claim Desmond and the descendant of eve (lets just say DOE its faster)have to have a child. juno said they needed Desmond and doe's dna to proceed but that doesn't mean they need to have a child, they may just need to try to use the apple together at the same time. right? did anyone ever say Desmonds son other than subject 16? who is prone to insanity and typos may i add. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well the thing is... desmond has to awaken the sixth sense.... and only a full twcb can do that.. desmond and descendant of eve cannot.. so i think they need to have a son to unlock the sixth sense..

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
but neither would be full TWCB a hybrid mixed with a hybrid dosent make a pure brid It would only make a new mixture of twcb and human DNA....Wait a minute that might be it the sense isnt meant to come from a TWcb its meant to come from and entirely differnt mix..Also when 16 says shes not who u think she is he might mean Lucy is eve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no what im saying is... adam and eve were modified by the TWCB to hold 1 half of the TWCB genome.. so if they ever united togeather they would have a full TWCB kids..

yes there hybrids... but they were augmented by the TWCB.. for that simple reason..

do you get what im saying slater??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes but i think its likely that were all takin his convesration with 16 about a son to seriuosly it was such a minor part in the conversation..Basically anything is possible..NbUt we will be goin to Africa next game to find eden and eve(whoever she is)..That is definate

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
but neither would be full TWCB a hybrid mixed with a hybrid dosent make a pure brid It would only make a new mixture of twcb and human DNA....Wait a minute that might be it the sense isnt meant to come from a TWcb its meant to come from and entirely differnt mix..Also when 16 says shes not who u think she is he might mean Lucy is eve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no what im saying is... adam and eve were modified by the TWCB to hold 1 half of the TWCB genome.. so if they ever united togeather they would have a full TWCB kids..

yes there hybrids... but they were augmented by the TWCB.. for that simple reason..

do you get what im saying slater??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes but i think its likely that were all takin his convesration with 16 about a son to seriuosly it was such a minor part in the conversation..Basically anything is possible..NbUt we will be goin to Africa next game to find eden and eve(whoever she is)..That is definate </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wait eden is located in africa... i thought it was located somwhere in the middle east...

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 07:18 PM
Humanity started in Africa and u can se a african volano in the truth video

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Humanity started in Africa and u can se a african volano in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahhhh...

Slaterxx
11-21-2010, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Humanity started in Africa and u can se a african volano in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahhhh... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Finally when 16 says shes not who u think she is she might mean minerva. and findin eve might mean findin Lucy again because they got seperated by the men at the end. thts it fro tnight

DarthEzio55
11-21-2010, 07:21 PM
i think the garden of Eden is at The mesopotamia

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slaterxx:
Humanity started in Africa and u can se a african volano in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahhhh... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Finally when 16 says shes not who u think she is she might mean minerva. and findin eve might mean findin Lucy again because they got seperated by the men at the end. thts it fro tnight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im telling you.. this series is going to go down as one of the greatest game franchises of all time.. it might not be the king of gameplay.. buts its story, history, conspiracy, so many theories, amazing twist endings.... this game will have a spot in the pantheon with mgs and other awsome games

Piflik
11-21-2010, 07:25 PM
Subject 16 is definitely not alive, at least not in the classical sense of the word.

He is an AI construct, or some kind of cerebral scan that Desmond put together by completing the 10 Clusters...it his his 'voice' that we hear during these sequences, saying 'loading...' and becoming more and more self-aware.

You could say Subject 16 is 'alive', but only as this Deus in Machina encountered in the Truth Sequence, and that's also what the IAMALIVE Morse codes for the Trophy/Achievement alludes to...he is not a biological being anymore and not one of the voices that can be heard during the ending credits.

I stand by my statement, that it is most likely that Desmond's son is reliving these memories and it is him that has gone in shock after the revelation that his father stabbed Lucy...and it's his overseer's voices you hear.

Abstergo might plan to launch their satellite in 2012, but that doesn't mean the end of the world...likewise, preventing the launch doesn't save the world...Desmond's son is definitely not old enough by that time to pull that one off...and even if Desmond's son isn't old enough to play a active role in the salvation of the world by the time it happens, it doesn't mean he cannot play an integral part of it...and it also doesn't make it any more or less plausible, that he is reliving his father's memories...maybe it's his blood, that is needed as a key to some ancient machinery that Those Who Came Before built...

And why should it not be possible to enter an Animus inside an Animus? It is all just memories after all...

As to why Ubisoft's writers should create that additional layer...it adds depth and allos for a sheer endless amount of sequels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regarding the reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab Lucy, I think the most plausible theory is, that Lucy is a Templar double-agent planted in the Assassin-cell some 10 years ago or even earlier...maybe she is a sleeper and doesn't even know it herself...but being Desmond's love-interest I doubt she dies...Desmond will save her and that will strengthen their bond even more...maybe even as much to break her Templar-conditioning (if there is any) or loyalty, to make the whole thing even more cheesy...

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
Subject 16 is definitely not alive, at least not in the classical sense of the word.

He is an AI construct, or some kind of cerebral scan that Desmond put together by completing the 10 Clusters...it his his 'voice' that we hear during these sequences, saying 'loading...' and becoming more and more self-aware.

You could say Subject 16 is 'alive', but only as this Deus in Machina encountered in the Truth Sequence, and that's also what the IAMALIVE Morse codes for the Trophy/Achievement alludes to...he is not a biological being anymore and not one of the voices that can be heard during the ending credits.

I stand by my statement, that it is most likely that Desmond's son is reliving these memories and it is him that has gone in shock after the revelation that his father stabbed Lucy...and it's his overseer's voices you hear.

Abstergo might plan to launch their satellite in 2012, but that doesn't mean the end of the world...likewise, preventing the launch doesn't save the world...Desmond's son is definitely not old enough by that time to pull that one off...and even if Desmond's son isn't old enough to play a active role in the salvation of the world by the time it happens, it doesn't mean he cannot play an integral part of it...and it also doesn't make it any more or less plausible, that he is reliving his father's memories...maybe it's his blood, that is needed as a key to some ancient machinery that Those Who Came Before built...

And why should it not be possible to enter an Animus inside an Animus? It is all just memories after all...

As to why Ubisoft's writers should create that additional layer...it adds depth and allos for a sheer endless amount of sequels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regarding the reason why Juno forced Desmond to stab Lucy, I think the most plausible theory is, that Lucy is a Templar double-agent planted in the Assassin-cell some 10 years ago or even earlier...maybe she is a sleeper and doesn't even know it herself...but being Desmond's love-interest I doubt she dies...Desmond will save her and that will strengthen their bond even more...maybe even as much to break her Templar-conditioning (if there is any) or loyalty, to make the whole thing even more cheesy... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so piflik....


you think desmond's son is just a ordinary human (or would be a hybrid in this case) reliving the memories of desmond

or do you think desmond's son is a full TWCB, who has obtained the sixth sense, and is the true savior of the world???

or a little bit of both

DarthEzio55
11-21-2010, 07:32 PM
even if u are right radman, about desmond's son, i still want desmond to save the world, not his son

Piflik
11-21-2010, 07:33 PM
I don't think any descendants so far away from the original TWCBs can be a full TWCB...at least not with any logical explanation...if we consider, that the genes for the TWCBs sixth sense are recessive (and they surely aren't dominant), it is possible and plausible under the right circumstances, that a Descendant has this sixth sense, but he will not be a full TWCB..(I think we need a better name for them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)...I think he is the worlds true savior, but not in an active role...more like his blood is the key for some machine, either to gain access to it, or to make it work...

And I think Lucy is the mother.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
even if u are right radman, about desmond's son, i still want desmond to save the world, not his son </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think he will save the world in the sense that he will have the son who will the save the world.. so desmond will get some credit i guess......

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
I don't think any descendants so far away from the original TWCBs can be a full TWCB...at least not with any logical explanation...if we consider, that the genes for the TWCBs sixth sense are recessive (and they surely aren't dominant), it is possible and plausible under the right circumstances, that a Descendant has this sixth sense, but he will not be a full TWCB..(I think we need a better name for them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)...I think he is the worlds true savior, but not in an active role...more like his blood is the key for some machine, either to gain access to it, or to make it work...

And I think Lucy is the mother. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> well i think adam and eve will augumented to hold "half of the TWCB" dna so if the ever had a union they would get a full TWCB kid etc.



and for now lets just call "TWCB" god.. so desmond is a demi-god..

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
I don't think any descendants so far away from the original TWCBs can be a full TWCB...at least not with any logical explanation...if we consider, that the genes for the TWCBs sixth sense are recessive (and they surely aren't dominant), it is possible and plausible under the right circumstances, that a Descendant has this sixth sense, but he will not be a full TWCB..(I think we need a better name for them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)...I think he is the worlds true savior, but not in an active role...more like his blood is the key for some machine, either to gain access to it, or to make it work...

And I think Lucy is the mother. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> well i think adam and eve will augumented to hold "half of the TWCB" genome so if the ever had a union they would get a full TWCB kid etc.



and for now lets just call "TWCB" god.. so desmond is a demi-god.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Piflik
11-21-2010, 07:38 PM
But Adam and Eve are dead for thousands and thousands of years...no descendant will ever be a genetical clone to either of them...and definitely not both in such a small timeframe that the can mate. And even then you'd have to genetically engineer everything...it might be easier to find the right genes in some generic assassins and combine them to get your full TWCB.

And God is one of them, not the entire race http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TokingAsian
11-21-2010, 07:40 PM
To Minvera response of find eve. If you really look into the story of Adam and Eve, Its been said that there was another female(i forgot her name, but its been said that she turned into the snake that convinces adam and eve to eat the forbidden apple) created together with Adam. However this female did not want to reproduce with Adam, because it was said that both Adam and that woman was created in the image of god/creator. Due to the woman rebellion she was turned into a snake, and Eve was made from the rib cage bone from Adam. Just a theory: what if Desmond or his son is the descendant of Adam, and needs to find Eve or the descendant of Eve to be recombined into a complete being. Just a thought, comments on it would be awesome, and if anybody knows which story I am talking about and knows the name of that woman please tell. ty ty.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 07:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
But Adam and Eve are dead for thousands and thousands of years...no descendant will ever be a genetical clone to either of them...and definitely not both in such a small timeframe that the can mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe the TWCB gave adam and eve a special augmentation that even there descendants can have full TWCB kids


see its kind of hard to argue real life genetics in video games.. even if it would be hard to understand

i still go by my theory that desmond needs to find a descendant of eve to have a son who will be a FULL TWCB... and he will obtain the sixth sense and save the world

Piflik
11-21-2010, 07:49 PM
As I said...the son doesn't have to be a full TWCB to have the sixth sense.

oricle
11-21-2010, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oricle:
i dont understand what people claim Desmond and the descendant of eve (lets just say DOE its faster)have to have a child. juno said they needed Desmond and doe's dna to proceed but that doesn't mean they need to have a child, they may just need to try to use the apple together at the same time. right? did anyone ever say Desmonds son other than subject 16? who is prone to insanity and typos may i add. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well the thing is... desmond has to awaken the sixth sense.... and only a full twcb can do that.. desmond and descendant of eve cannot.. so i think they need to have a son to unlock the sixth sense.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that wouldnt unlock the sixth sense in desmond and i doubt they would switch characters halfway through a series. also couldnt the apple take dna from desmond and DOE, combine them and reinsert the completed dna back into them? or maybe once you have the completed dna strand you play through the memories of adam/eve through the completed strand when they first used the apple to gain the sixth sense or somthing like that?

oricle
11-21-2010, 08:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TokingAsian:
To Minvera response of find eve. If you really look into the story of Adam and Eve, Its been said that there was another female(i forgot her name, but its been said that she turned into the snake that convinces adam and eve to eat the forbidden apple) created together with Adam. However this female did not want to reproduce with Adam, because it was said that both Adam and that woman was created in the image of god/creator. Due to the woman rebellion she was turned into a snake, and Eve was made from the rib cage bone from Adam. Just a theory: what if Desmond or his son is the descendant of Adam, and needs to find Eve or the descendant of Eve to be recombined into a complete being. Just a thought, comments on it would be awesome, and if anybody knows which story I am talking about and knows the name of that woman please tell. ty ty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i remember in the truth miracle your expierienceing it in first person, through the eyes of subject 16 desendent. so maybe desmond isnt related to adam but this women who gained the sixth sense or knowlage and then freed adam and eve.

MolochXX
11-21-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm not entirely sure Desmond had to kill Lucy in order to go on alone. Here's how it could have went down:

Desmond: I have to go on alone.

Everyone else: Ok.

Matt-The-Silent
11-21-2010, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gedads:
Worst ending ever made... Nothing explained in the 1"30 it last, but i'm happy i've learned the name of all the marketing team in the 20 minutes of credits..

Ok, now give me back my money... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously have never played AC. They made it like this for a reason, For a Twist.

This makes people inticipate the next game, i remeber i could not wait, i bought this game over COD, and im glad i did, i like this much more.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
As I said...the son doesn't have to be a full TWCB to have the sixth sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont get it.. i thought the only way to get the sixth sense is to be a full TWCB

Theassassin4756
11-21-2010, 09:01 PM
Eagle Vision is the 6th... but its underpowered compared to the TWCB Vision.

Oh and the Animus displays things in 3rd-person there is no third person in the truth video

oricle
11-21-2010, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theassassin4756:
Eagle Vision is the 6th... but its underpowered compared to the TWCB Vision.

Oh and the Animus displays things in 3rd-person there is no third person in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
but the way it was "shot" the film still looks like your still seing it through the eyes of somone, and not the eyes of adam or eve.it doesnt make sense that your seeing adam or eves memories through somone elses eyes

Radman500
11-21-2010, 09:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"shot" the film still looks like your still seing it through the eyes of somone, and not the eyes of adam or eve.it d </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i doubt there was someone else with adam and eve.....

even though there is a theory that it is desmond who is with adam and eve in the truth video... seriously.. no joke. i heard that theory along time ago, when everyone was talking about the ac2 ending.. a bunch of people had that theory

if that is true then it would be some time paradox thingy magingy and we all know time travel ruins game stories..... and stories in perticular

kronoff
11-21-2010, 09:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oricle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theassassin4756:
Eagle Vision is the 6th... but its underpowered compared to the TWCB Vision.

Oh and the Animus displays things in 3rd-person there is no third person in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
but the way it was "shot" the film still looks like your still seing it through the eyes of somone, and not the eyes of adam or eve.it doesnt make sense that your seeing adam or eves memories through somone elses eyes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was just camera work, if according to your theory it was another person following them, then the end shot where it shows all the buildings from a arieal view...the person just somehow floated up there? =P

Frocony
11-21-2010, 09:41 PM
If you guys dont know yet theres a page on the wiki that has most of the conversation of Juno and Desmond

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Juno

JDMC13
11-21-2010, 09:56 PM
Everyone else saw the apple roll into Lucy's hand at the end of the credits right?

oricle
11-21-2010, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kronoff:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oricle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theassassin4756:
Eagle Vision is the 6th... but its underpowered compared to the TWCB Vision.

Oh and the Animus displays things in 3rd-person there is no third person in the truth video </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
but the way it was "shot" the film still looks like your still seing it through the eyes of somone, and not the eyes of adam or eve.it doesnt make sense that your seeing adam or eves memories through somone elses eyes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was just camera work, if according to your theory it was another person following them, then the end shot where it shows all the buildings from a arieal view...the person just somehow floated up there? =P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh thats a good point. and when it zooms out there is only two people on the roof. ok so there was no one with adam and eve, so thats obviously not true. my bad.

Radman500
11-21-2010, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JDMC13:
Everyone else saw the apple roll into Lucy's hand at the end of the credits right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what are you trying to say

MetalSnake712
11-21-2010, 10:09 PM
Umm did I miss that somehow? cuz I even had my glasses on at the time I was finishing this game off...so I'm kinda lost here to the comment above by JDMC13

Sparty2020
11-21-2010, 10:50 PM
And now I will present my full theory. *gasp*

I think that Adam and Eve were genetically modified by TWCB to possess the abilities to produce more TWCB. It was perhaps at at this time they uncovered their identity as slaves and rebelled. Adam & Eve produced two primary children: Cain and Abel. I believe that both Cain and Abel were pure-blooded TWCB.

Cain murdered Abel out of jealousy and stole his PoE. If 16 can be believed then the Templars were the direct descendants of Cain and the Assassins were the direct descendants of Abel. That would mean that the final TWCB had hybrid children, each carrying half the genome of TWCB.

My theory is that Juno and Minerva don't care about the silly war between Assassins and Templars, rather focusing on the real threat. That would mean that they would urge Desmond (who is one of the few pure-blooded Assassins remaining)to mate with somebody who is of direct Templar lineage. Thus the bloodline that was formerly separated would at last be united.

My justification for this theory is that looking at how the Templars have always looked ahead into the future and knew what would happen before anyone else, arguably even leading humanity into the future, I would assume that they truly possess the ability of Foresight.

The only thing I can think of that would disprove this theory is Project Legacy. Perotto Calderon was a full-blooded Assassin (his son had Eagle Vision) and Lucrezia Borgia was the daughter of the Grand Master of the Templar Order. Yet Giovanni Borgia isn't a TWCB... that gives me two conclusions: 1) Rodrigo, despite being the Grand Master, isn't a full-blooded Templar (in which case they are extremely rare) or 2) My theory is crazier than Charles Manson. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Radman500
11-21-2010, 10:59 PM
my theory is that desmond will halt the doomsday event.. he will stop the abstergo satelite, but will just halt the doomsday (just postponed it for a later date).. he will find the descendant of eve
and they will have a son who will be a pure blood TWCB.. and he will have the sixth sense.. and desmond will train his son to be an assassin and to stop the whole doomsday thing

Radman500
11-21-2010, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
And now I will present my full theory. *gasp*

I think that Adam and Eve were genetically modified by TWCB to possess the abilities to produce more TWCB. It was perhaps at at this time they uncovered their identity as slaves and rebelled. Adam & Eve produced two primary children: Cain and Abel. I believe that both Cain and Abel were pure-blooded TWCB.

Cain murdered Abel out of jealousy and stole his PoE. If 16 can be believed then the Templars were the direct descendants of Cain and the Assassins were the direct descendants of Abel. That would mean that the final TWCB had hybrid children, each carrying half the genome of TWCB.

My theory is that Juno and Minerva don't care about the silly war between Assassins and Templars, rather focusing on the real threat. That would mean that they would urge Desmond (who is one of the few pure-blooded Assassins remaining)to mate with somebody who is of direct Templar lineage. Thus the bloodline that was formerly separated would at last be united.

My justification for this theory is that looking at how the Templars have always looked ahead into the future and knew what would happen before anyone else, arguably even leading humanity into the future, I would assume that they truly possess the ability of Foresight.

The only thing I can think of that would disprove this theory is Project Legacy. Perotto Calderon was a full-blooded Assassin (his son had Eagle Vision) and Lucrezia Borgia was the daughter of the Grand Master of the Templar Order. Yet Giovanni Borgia isn't a TWCB... that gives me two conclusions: 1) Rodrigo, despite being the Grand Master, isn't a full-blooded Templar (in which case they are extremely rare) or 2) My theory is crazier than Charles Manson. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i love your theory that the assassins and templars both hold "1 half of the TWCB genome" assassins descendant from cain, (had kids before died) and templars descendant from cain (who had kids as well)

and desmond must find this descendant of eve to unite the bloodline... and this son will be a full-blood twcb......

xerxesofthe
11-21-2010, 11:20 PM
oh yeah 16 is not crazy [ maybe a bit ] he is just misunderstood and set-up by the templars and the set up is lucy she was trying to keep desmond from the truth so abstergo could do the lounch.

john63
11-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Just a couple of things that I want everyone to be clear on:

1. In the vault at the end of ACB, that is NOT minerva. The voice is different, the hair is different. It's JUNO.

2. There is no direct evidence that Adam or Eve have any TWCB DNA. We can only be sure that they are the first humans to be able to resist the piece of eden. (It would make a cool theory, but I couldn't tell if you guys were hypothesizing or stating it as fact.)
The first time we KNOW that hybridization occurred between TWCB and humans was some time after the first cataclysm; Juno said they tried to combine humans with TWCB through cross breeding, resulting in the Assassin bloodline. (And possibly the Templar bloodline through Cain, but we have no proof that there's a direct bloodline among templars.)

3. General genetics lesson for Radman. You can inherit genes from a population without inheriting EVERY gene from that population. For example, if two people who are half black, half white have a kid, is the kid entirely black or entirely white? No. It inherits genes from both populations.
However, it may be possible for Desmond's son to have the full 6th sense if he finds a woman of assassin descent, assuming there are particular genes that cause the ability.
Use a punnett square and figure it out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

Random thought that I found interesting:
What if the PoE only made Desmond THINK he stabbed Lucy? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Thanks, whoever thought of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My theory:
The voices at the end MUST be from the present (Desmond's time), and not from his son's time. We clearly hear Desmond respond to the idea of being put into the animus again. Why would Desmond say that, if those words were never said around HIM, and only were heard by his son?

I'm thinking that they're either modern assassins or modern templars, who found desmond unconscious and lucy stabbed (and shawn and rebecca doing... whatever they were doing), and were trying to keep desmond and lucy alive. I doubt it's subject 16. I agree with the idea that the 16 we saw was an AI construct, not 16 himself talking to us.

MaseyBoy93
11-22-2010, 03:50 AM
Desmond is Adam.
Lucy is Eve.

No justification, just insane possibility.

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 05:04 AM
Subject 16 spoke with broken English and Juno spoke differently as well.

Subject 16 said: "The sun... Your son..."

If you combine those, it could mean, 'Your the son...', meaning Desmond is the son/offspring of the original race and humans. This keeps in line with Juno's speech. It could be done for those who did not do any of the glyphs from AC2 as they were optional.

The important question to ask is why were the temples only programed for the descendants of Adam/Eve? Did they turn away from war?

EDIT: I made grammatical corrections. Sorry webster.

Piflik
11-22-2010, 08:02 AM
He doesn't say 'you're son', but 'your son'...I know most people on the internet don't know the difference, but I am sure Ubisoft does.

Puppet627
11-22-2010, 08:13 AM
I had subs on the whole time and Subject 16 said:
"The sun.. YOUR son.."

Keksus
11-22-2010, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He answers his questions and reacts to what desmond says. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We know some other people who could do that ... TWCB. So, maybe 16 is dead but has got the same power like TWCB.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"He's going into shock. Put him back in the animus.That's the thing that got him into this condition." This heavily implies that someone is reliving desmond's live because they're not sayiing that the apple got him into shock but reliving memories in the animus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very good point. I approve with you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I had subs on the whole time and Subject 16 said:
"The sun.. YOUR son.." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If this is a typo I wonder if it's in the script which they used for the translation. If it isn't we could find out what exactly he said by simply playing the game in another language.

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:
He doesn't say 'you're son', but 'your son'...I know most people on the internet don't know the difference, but I am sure Ubisoft does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry perfect. It's a typo. Some of us have jobs and stay up with little sleep.

Either way, talk about what I said. I meant 'your' instead of 'you're'.

My theory is that Subject 16, when those two phrases are combined meant to tell Desmond that he is the son of the two races. This is bolstered by Juno.

We have to use the information given to us to make sense of this.

Piflik
11-22-2010, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeSabellis:

Either way, talk about what I said. I meant 'your' instead of 'you're'.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm...I did...your sentence doesn't make any sense with 'your'...'you're' is short for 'you are'...so if Sub16 had said 'you're [the] son', then Desmond would be the son...but he said 'your son' as in 'Desmond's son'...'your' is a possessive adjective...

salted onions
11-22-2010, 11:06 AM
My theories on all of this.

Desmond was forced to kill Lucy because TWCB deemed her dangerous, as she would prevent Desmond from finding a descendant of Eve. This is because they had strong feelings for each other. She is not a Templar, otherwise Desmond's Eagle Vision would be incorrect to paint her blue (and it's been pretty reliable thus far.) Desmond needs to cut all worldly ties, and transcend such connections to find the descendant of Eve, and the two of them will stop Abstergo in some way.

I do not believe that Templar's are the descendants of Eve, or that uniting a Templar and Assassin will lead to a child with the 6th sense. It has been done before, with Altair and Maria, and with Perotto Calderon and Lucrezia Borgia.

All of this "son" buisness baffles me. I refuse to believe it's Desmond's son reliving Desmond's memories. Some may read that as an epic plot twist, but I see it as a cheap cop out done to escape any plot holes. This story is about Desmond. Not Altair, Ezio, or Son-Desmond.

I believe that Desmond and the descendant of Eve will save the world from the Templars and the satellite launch that is in 72 days. But all this talk of a son is just a way to further expand the story, speaking of a second prophecy of when his son saves the day later on. But this Trilogy is about Desmond. Perhaps Desmond's son later on get's a trilogy of his own.

Confusious30
11-22-2010, 01:22 PM
All this Inception talk... good god.

Yes, it's similar to Inception. HOWEVER, Inception has been out since May. You really think Ubi just added it to the game after seeing Inception?

They had it preordained for a long time, so for those who are saying it's copying Inception, STFU, it's not. It's not even like Desmond is in a memory within a memory......

But yeah, trippy ending.

Sparty2020
11-22-2010, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by childprodigy:
I do not believe that Templar's are the descendants of Eve, or that uniting a Templar and Assassin will lead to a child with the 6th sense. It has been done before, with Altair and Maria, and with Perotto Calderon and Lucrezia Borgia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Maria Thorpe wasn't born a Templar. She was an ordinary girl in England who was forced to marry so she disguised herself a Crusader and ran for the Holy Land. Robert de Sable was so impressed with her he named her his steward. I doubt she had any actual rank in the Templars as she was considered expendable in Lineage.

As for Perotto and Lucrezia, maybe Rodrigo wasn't a direct Templar descendant, despite being the Grand Master. I mean, the Vault did not open for him and he also fell prey to the powers of Ezio's Piece of Eden after all.

Confusious30
11-22-2010, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EzioTheAssassin:
Um, guys, the Son theory is absolutely false, you know that right? IF Desmond has a kid, it has to be before the cataclysm, which is only a month or so away. So... Desmond's infant son is reliving his memories and must save the world before December 21st? Hahahah, no.

Minerva says "it's up to you Desmond." On the pause screen for the modern day, there's no DNA option or anything. That's all going on for real. Either Desmond saves us, or the world ends. His kid, if he even gets to have one, has nothing to do with this.

William could possibly be Desmond's father, as his last initial is M, but it's unlikely since he has no idea where his son is.

There's no definitave proof Lucy's dead, she could have just gone comatose. Juno states that a blood sacrifice is needed to open the path. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone has to die, it just means they need blood.

The two men at the end are probably talking about Desmond. He was the one reliving Ezio's memories, and he even goes unconcious after stabbing Lucy. I'd go into shock too if a dead hologram lady took over my body and forced me to stab the woman I loved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree.

Plus, at the end when the two guys are talking, there's a third voice that says "No", and it is OBVIOUSLY Desmond's voice.

bsmith239
11-22-2010, 03:54 PM
My theory:

Basically, Desmond is reliving his own memories sometime in the future at the behest of some 3rd party (assassins but probably templar). What their motives would be is anyone's guess but it probably has to do with eden more than the pieces of eden.

Subject 16 said that what Desmond thinks is happening in the present is actually in the past. They (the assassin's) have already lost and now all that can be done to save man is finding this decedent of eve.

My best guess is that in the real world timeline Lucy did not die. She is a Templar who has feelings for an Assassin and is quit possibly the DoE he needs to find.

Juno had Desmond kill off Lucy in the memory sequence because it is not what really happened and thus it caused Desmond to desynchronize from the animus he has been in the entire time. Evidence for this can be found in the quick conversation during the credits.

The reason why the animus doesn't jump around in his memories is because they are literally his memories. There is no memory loss since they have not been passed down. In fact he is able to live them literally from start to finish with the only time he reaches desynch being when Juno forces him to go against his own memories.

I suspect that in AC3 Desmond will wake up in a facility, believing he killed Lucy, but in time he will come to realize he is actually going to have to find eden to save her.

edit: I also believe Subject 16 is Desmond's subconscious.

Raunchy_Old_Man
11-22-2010, 04:09 PM
there is evidence of Lucy not being a true Assassin mostly because here finger was cut off and after Leonardo created the altered hidden blade that did not have to be part of the ritual. Every new Assassin was marked on that finger with the flaming set of pliers. Abstergo would not have known that because Subject 16 did not live Ezio's Life if anything he lived part of Altier. Of course there is a chance Ubi just created that feature because they did not know of it because they did not create it but it could be a theory.

If Lucy is a Templar Subject 16 could very well be alive as in the truth he actually tells Desmond that he still is and to find him along with eve. Also do not forget the "She is not what she claims she is" which could be talking about Lucy being a Assassin.

Now with the real time theory of Desmond's Existence out of the way. Ezio is going to die in the AC if it does not it would not fit the "lore" if you would because the age limit at that time was around 50 years Ezio is in his late 30s if not 40s by now. There is actually many ways he could die old age ya but i do not see that as a "thriller" or "Stunning" event in such a game. Being Assassinated would be the best way for him to die, by who? I have 2 possible candidates that could kill Ezio. First one is Catarina, although im am certain she is pregnant by now with Ezio's son or daughter (that would make a good new AC main char actually) she is able to kill Ezio with almost no issues at all. Next possible one is the leader of the thieves guild (sorry i forgot his name http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) if you noticed he was so eager to kill the grand master Assassin at the time before Ezio was appointed at Maria's ceremony. The only traitors in ACB were both Thieves the first one is the one with a rag/eye patch you saw at the Villa and said "for the Borgia" before he killed himself. The second was a thief you had to kill for a thief mission its a long stretch but if your suppose to find the truth for answers it would tie in. But i am 100% sure there will be a Traitor in Ezio's time, and almost certain that Lucy was.

Thats my theory so far also sure if Subject 16 is alive Desmond will meet him in the next one.

Geinref
11-22-2010, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
My theory:

Basically, Desmond is reliving his own memories sometime in the future at the behest of some 3rd party (assassins but probably templar). What their motives would be is anyone's guess but it probably has to do with eden more than the pieces of eden.

Subject 16 said that what Desmond thinks is happening in the present is actually in the past. They (the assassin's) have already lost and now all that can be done to save man is finding this decedent of eve.

My best guess is that in the real world timeline Lucy did not die. She is a Templar who has feelings for an Assassin and is quit possibly the DoE he needs to find.

Juno had Desmond kill off Lucy in the memory sequence because it is not what really happened and thus it caused Desmond to desynchronize from the animus he has been in the entire time. Evidence for this can be found in the quick conversation during the credits.

The reason why the animus doesn't jump around in his memories is because they are literally his memories. There is no memory loss since they have not been passed down. In fact he is able to live them literally from start to finish with the only time he reaches desynch being when Juno forces him to go against his own memories.

I suspect that in AC3 Desmond will wake up in a facility, believing he killed Lucy, but in time he will come to realize he is actually going to have to find eden to save her.

edit: I also believe Subject 16 is Desmond's subconscious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this one! Interesting stuff. I wonder what ubisoft is going to do next. I'm starting to think that AC3 is also going to b in two parts. There story is too huge and i wouldn't want them to rush it to the end.

Radman500
11-22-2010, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">esmond kill off Lucy in the memory sequence because it is not what really happened and thus it caused Desmond to desynchronize from the animus he has been in the entire time. Evidence for this can be found in the quick conversation during the credits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i have changed my theory a little since last night.. thinking about the ending all night

i believe desmond will fail to stop the doomsday event.. as it is invetible.. but he will go to eden and find the descendant of eve .. which i think is the only place that can surive the doomsday event.. he will then have a son, a full TWCB......restarting mankind/civilization.

yly3
11-22-2010, 05:07 PM
You know what? Lucy said in the beginning of AC2 "There's more to that but it will have to wait". Well she didn't say anything about it in AC:B http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DeSabellis
11-22-2010, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Piflik:

Erm...I did...your sentence doesn't make any sense with 'your'...'you're' is short for 'you are'...so if Sub16 had said 'you're [the] son', then Desmond would be the son...but he said 'your son' as in 'Desmond's son'...'your' is a possessive adjective... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And... referring back. I was talking about combining the sentence together. When subject 16 said "...the sun..." and then "...your son...", since it was a broken sentence structure, it could mean "... you're the son...". I added 'the' from the previous sentence to the second sentence. Since there is some misunderstanding on the part of 16 or Desmond to what sun/son he is talking about, I think it would be logical to assume that perhaps 'your' is wrong as well and he is simply referring to the fact that Desmond is the son of the first race and second race.

Juno reiterates this.

assassin087
11-22-2010, 05:58 PM
I think that lucy was killed because she was holding desmond back and that subject 16 put him back in the animus. Now he must find a descendat of eve and have a kid with her. However desmond will save the world and the kid will be born at the end of the game. Then ubi will give us another crazy ending and we will be doing another forum just like this one.

We all have theories but there is just not enough proof in the game to back them up. We will just have to wait for a sequel.

realgangsta213
11-22-2010, 06:35 PM
The ending is litteraly killing me.
The things which disturb me are
The last two sentences of AC:B where the two people say "He's going into shock, quick put him back into the animus! Are you crazy, that's what got him into this condition! Do as i say, i'm the expert!"
This heavily implies that not the stabbing of lucy made him go into shock but someone reliving that certain memory and this supports the desmond's son theory which is only possible if the cataclysm doesn't end this world. So we definetely will play the remaining 72 days with desmond but not sure if it was in the present or as desmond's son in the animus.
We also clearly know that desmond needs to find eve and he needs the sixth sense. Now i don't know how that's possible without having a son so...
Another thing which bugs me is Juno saying "The cross darkening the horizon" and also subject 16 saying "She is not who you think she is". Metaphorically speaking anyone who went on a hard journey would be heading for the "horizon" and TWCB would use this sort of notation. The cross darkening the horizon means that the templars are stopping him from reaching his destination but the satelite isn't directly stopping him so i'm assuming lucy because when you stab her juno says now nothing is stopping you. Subject 16 reinforces this by saying she is not who you think she is in a cynical manner because of the relative text which he said and so he can only mean lucy being something bad i.e. a templar. He does not mean JUNO or minerva because both of them have nothing to hide unless they're huge holograms created by absterga and that is bull because of the technology in the vault.

So my final assumptions are subject 16 is alive because he reacts to you in the final cluster and the morse code I AM ALIVE and he is one of those 2 voices at the end. Lucy is a templar and therefore he was forced to stab her. You will finish what you started with desmond but we're not sure if you are reliving it in the animus as his son or in real time. I can only back up his son theory with the last two lines, the sixth sense hybrid theory and subject 16 pointing it out.

Twinblade63
11-22-2010, 06:43 PM
OK. First of all: Lucy isn't dead. Not only would that be like Jerry Seinfeld killing Elaine (if you don't know who these people are, shame on you ;P), but let's take a moment and think back to the first Assassin's Creed. I remember Al Mualim gutting Altair after Malik brings the Piece of Eden back from Solomon's Temple. After being stabbed in the stomach and feeling death, Altair awoke in Al Mualim's study with not a mark on his body, and very much alive. Al Mualim told Altair that the PoE was temptation itself, and who holds it can sway the minds of anyone looking upon it. The Apple is pure illusion. It makes people see whatever the user wants people to see. Whether or not it could fool Juno, I can't say. I do know that twice now in this series, someone with the Apple has stabbed someone with a death blow. The first victim (Altair, in case we've forgotten) came back. Now we have to wait until AC3 to find out if Lucy experienced the same thing at Desmond's hands.
As for this "Son-of-Desmond" theory... I'm not buying into that one bit. First of all, we hear Desmond protesting the 2 voices during the credits. Yes, I know, characteristics are passed on through genes, but lets be serious: that was Desmond's voice, no one elses. Plus, I'm a little confused by this animus inside an animus theory someone brought up, about a Desmond Jr. playing Ezio via playing Desmond... If this Desmond Jr. was reliving Desmond Sr.'s life, then wouldnt that mean when Desmond Sr. went into the animus on Altair or Ezio that Desmond Jr. was just watching Desmond Sr. sleep/twitch(or whatever a body does when in the animus)? No, this "Son-of-Desmond" idea is not very believable. Of course everyone's entitled to an opinion I suppose...
ONE last thing!!: I can't get over this Son-of-Desmond thing, I'm sorry :P People have referenced AC2 when Minerva talked to Desmond through Ezio, saying Juno could have done the same thing with a son of Desmond... WHY would Desmond name his son Desmond after seeing that? Ezio would have no control whatsoever over Desmond being named Desmond, so don't go there. If Desmond heard Juno call him by name; "Desmond"... Then, really. I cannot for the life of me imagine Desmond naming his son "Desmond" after that. And saying this other Desmond came along a few centuries after the Desmond WE know is who Juno is talking to, that just makes even less sense. The cataclysmic events would have already happened, and all this time we've played a character known as Desmond (who we've been told from the beginning is the main character who the salvation of mankind relies upon)really was a nonfactor and meant nothing to the story. Sorry, it just doesn't add up to me.
In conclusion (it's about time, isn't it? :P) I do not believe Lucy is dead. I do not believe we've been duped into believeing Desmond was the main character when all along it was his "son", and I truly am not going to enjoy waiting for the next installment of Assassin's Creed. I think we will all be surprised by whatever the masterminds (truly, this story has been absolutely wonderful to this point) at Ubisoft come up with.

P.S. --&gt; I love the idea of Ubisoft realeasing AC3 on October 10, 2012 xD hahaha. That's brilliant, I'd wait that long. As long as they gave us answers.
I'd enjoy reading feedback on my thoughts, or development of my thoughts. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ShAd0wC4t
11-22-2010, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
My theory:

Basically, Desmond is reliving his own memories sometime in the future at the behest of some 3rd party (assassins but probably templar). What their motives would be is anyone's guess but it probably has to do with eden more than the pieces of eden.

Subject 16 said that what Desmond thinks is happening in the present is actually in the past. They (the assassin's) have already lost and now all that can be done to save man is finding this decedent of eve.

My best guess is that in the real world timeline Lucy did not die. She is a Templar who has feelings for an Assassin and is quit possibly the DoE he needs to find.

Juno had Desmond kill off Lucy in the memory sequence because it is not what really happened and thus it caused Desmond to desynchronize from the animus he has been in the entire time. Evidence for this can be found in the quick conversation during the credits.

The reason why the animus doesn't jump around in his memories is because they are literally his memories. There is no memory loss since they have not been passed down. In fact he is able to live them literally from start to finish with the only time he reaches desynch being when Juno forces him to go against his own memories.

I suspect that in AC3 Desmond will wake up in a facility, believing he killed Lucy, but in time he will come to realize he is actually going to have to find eden to save her.

edit: I also believe Subject 16 is Desmond's subconscious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this one! Interesting stuff. I wonder what ubisoft is going to do next. I'm starting to think that AC3 is also going to b in two parts. There story is too huge and i wouldn't want them to rush it to the end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like that too. I have a theory!
All your theories will be judged by Ubisoft to be in the next AC game. Keep them coming guys! Variety is the spice of life and all that.

dchil279
11-22-2010, 08:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twinblade63:
OK. First of all: Lucy isn't dead. Not only would that be like Jerry Seinfeld killing Elaine (if you don't know who these people are, shame on you ;P), but let's take a moment and think back to the first Assassin's Creed. I remember Al Mualim gutting Altair after Malik brings the Piece of Eden back from Solomon's Temple. After being stabbed in the stomach and feeling death, Altair awoke in Al Mualim's study with not a mark on his body, and very much alive. Al Mualim told Altair that the PoE was temptation itself, and who holds it can sway the minds of anyone looking upon it. The Apple is pure illusion. It makes people see whatever the user wants people to see. Whether or not it could fool Juno, I can't say. I do know that twice now in this series, someone with the Apple has stabbed someone with a death blow. The first victim (Altair, in case we've forgotten) came back. Now we have to wait until AC3 to find out if Lucy experienced the same thing at Desmond's hands.
As for this "Son-of-Desmond" theory... I'm not buying into that one bit. First of all, we hear Desmond protesting the 2 voices during the credits. Yes, I know, characteristics are passed on through genes, but lets be serious: that was Desmond's voice, no one elses. Plus, I'm a little confused by this animus inside an animus theory someone brought up, about a Desmond Jr. playing Ezio via playing Desmond... If this Desmond Jr. was reliving Desmond Sr.'s life, then wouldnt that mean when Desmond Sr. went into the animus on Altair or Ezio that Desmond Jr. was just watching Desmond Sr. sleep/twitch(or whatever a body does when in the animus)? No, this "Son-of-Desmond" idea is not very believable. Of course everyone's entitled to an opinion I suppose...
ONE last thing!!: I can't get over this Son-of-Desmond thing, I'm sorry :P People have referenced AC2 when Minerva talked to Desmond through Ezio, saying Juno could have done the same thing with a son of Desmond... WHY would Desmond name his son Desmond after seeing that? Ezio would have no control whatsoever over Desmond being named Desmond, so don't go there. If Desmond heard Juno call him by name; "Desmond"... Then, really. I cannot for the life of me imagine Desmond naming his son "Desmond" after that. And saying this other Desmond came along a few centuries after the Desmond WE know is who Juno is talking to, that just makes even less sense. The cataclysmic events would have already happened, and all this time we've played a character known as Desmond (who we've been told from the beginning is the main character who the salvation of mankind relies upon)really was a nonfactor and meant nothing to the story. Sorry, it just doesn't add up to me.
In conclusion (it's about time, isn't it? :P) I do not believe Lucy is dead. I do not believe we've been duped into believeing Desmond was the main character when all along it was his "son", and I truly am not going to enjoy waiting for the next installment of Assassin's Creed. I think we will all be surprised by whatever the masterminds (truly, this story has been absolutely wonderful to this point) at Ubisoft come up with.

P.S. --&gt; I love the idea of Ubisoft realeasing AC3 on October 10, 2012 xD hahaha. That's brilliant, I'd wait that long. As long as they gave us answers.
I'd enjoy reading feedback on my thoughts, or development of my thoughts. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
thank you for saving me the mouthful

bsmith239
11-22-2010, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twinblade63:
OK. First of all: Lucy isn't dead. Not only would that be like Jerry Seinfeld killing Elaine (if you don't know who these people are, shame on you ;P), but let's take a moment and think back to the first Assassin's Creed. I remember Al Mualim gutting Altair after Malik brings the Piece of Eden back from Solomon's Temple. After being stabbed in the stomach and feeling death, Altair awoke in Al Mualim's study with not a mark on his body, and very much alive. Al Mualim told Altair that the PoE was temptation itself, and who holds it can sway the minds of anyone looking upon it. The Apple is pure illusion. It makes people see whatever the user wants people to see. Whether or not it could fool Juno, I can't say. I do know that twice now in this series, someone with the Apple has stabbed someone with a death blow. The first victim (Altair, in case we've forgotten) came back. Now we have to wait until AC3 to find out if Lucy experienced the same thing at Desmond's hands.
As for this "Son-of-Desmond" theory... I'm not buying into that one bit. First of all, we hear Desmond protesting the 2 voices during the credits. Yes, I know, characteristics are passed on through genes, but lets be serious: that was Desmond's voice, no one elses. Plus, I'm a little confused by this animus inside an animus theory someone brought up, about a Desmond Jr. playing Ezio via playing Desmond... If this Desmond Jr. was reliving Desmond Sr.'s life, then wouldnt that mean when Desmond Sr. went into the animus on Altair or Ezio that Desmond Jr. was just watching Desmond Sr. sleep/twitch(or whatever a body does when in the animus)? No, this "Son-of-Desmond" idea is not very believable. Of course everyone's entitled to an opinion I suppose...
ONE last thing!!: I can't get over this Son-of-Desmond thing, I'm sorry :P People have referenced AC2 when Minerva talked to Desmond through Ezio, saying Juno could have done the same thing with a son of Desmond... WHY would Desmond name his son Desmond after seeing that? Ezio would have no control whatsoever over Desmond being named Desmond, so don't go there. If Desmond heard Juno call him by name; "Desmond"... Then, really. I cannot for the life of me imagine Desmond naming his son "Desmond" after that. And saying this other Desmond came along a few centuries after the Desmond WE know is who Juno is talking to, that just makes even less sense. The cataclysmic events would have already happened, and all this time we've played a character known as Desmond (who we've been told from the beginning is the main character who the salvation of mankind relies upon)really was a nonfactor and meant nothing to the story. Sorry, it just doesn't add up to me.
In conclusion (it's about time, isn't it? :P) I do not believe Lucy is dead. I do not believe we've been duped into believeing Desmond was the main character when all along it was his "son", and I truly am not going to enjoy waiting for the next installment of Assassin's Creed. I think we will all be surprised by whatever the masterminds (truly, this story has been absolutely wonderful to this point) at Ubisoft come up with.

P.S. --&gt; I love the idea of Ubisoft realeasing AC3 on October 10, 2012 xD hahaha. That's brilliant, I'd wait that long. As long as they gave us answers.
I'd enjoy reading feedback on my thoughts, or development of my thoughts. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
thank you for saving me the mouthful </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Desmond's child is not reliving memories in the animus. Either Desmond is reliving his own or things are happening in "real time". Desmond's son, if he has it with eve, would be a freaking god and not need the animus.

DarthEzio55
11-22-2010, 08:19 PM
I think ubisoft added those last two lines, to find a way to go back and relive ezio's memories. by that i mean those two people found Desmond, inside the temple, and put him back into the animus,and because of that ubisoft found us a way to go and explore ezio memories...... sort of like how rebecca told desmond at the end of ac2 that he should explore ezio's memories to acheive full synch, so this is ac:b's version of that

oricle
11-22-2010, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keksus:

If this is a typo I wonder if it's in the script which they used for the translation. If it isn't we could find out what exactly he said by simply playing the game in another language. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

someone do this. this could solve the whole you son/sun debate but i suppose either way could still be due to an error.

DarthEzio55
11-22-2010, 08:27 PM
one more thing do any of u guys remember that before ac b came out there were a few pics here, about desmond's new look, and there was this one pic,and on that pic desmond had a beard?

nightpriestess
11-22-2010, 08:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarthEzio55:
I think ubisoft added those last two lines, to find a way to go back and relive ezio's memories. by that i mean those two people found Desmond, inside the temple, and put him back into the animus,and because of that ubisoft found us a way to go and explore ezio memories...... sort of like how rebecca told desmond at the end of ac2 that he should explore ezio's memories to acheive full synch, so this is ac:b's version of that </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This, just this. Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the real one. Plus, they probably want him to relive ANOTHER ancestor's memory for part 3.

Also, I don't get why people think the guy saying "no" at the end is his son when it's obviously Desmond's voice.

zerocooll21
11-22-2010, 08:37 PM
Animus in a animus works b/c the the whole point of the device is to let you relive ancestors memory's. If someone from the future related to Desmond is reliving Desmonds life he would see everything Desmond saw. That would include the time spent in the animus. Its not like he goes to sleep while he is in there. He is awake, living, creating memories.

All this talk of sun going supernova is wrong. If that happen to the TOWCB (she mentions a simialr event), earth would be gone as well as everything in the solar system. Whats going to happen on Dec 12, 2012 is an evet that is actually very real (which was pretty sick how they tied that in IMO). The earth's poles have been documented to reverse. During this time there is no magnetic protection from the sun which could send a coronal mass ejection our way. This would take out every transformer and power line, not to mention bake the side of the earth that gets hit.

Mysterio43
11-22-2010, 08:42 PM
No one is talking about the white van shaun talked about in the e-mails. It is obvious the people that was heard in the credits came from this van.

One little theory that hit me when I started typing this was, why couldn't these two people talking in the credits be people from Abstergo? And that is why Desmond says "No!". What if Abstergo Agents followed them and watching them and moved in on an oppertune time and got Desmond back? So that in AC:3 you start back in an Abstergo lab?

Also, what if Subject 16 didn't mess up when he said "The sun..... your son." It sounds like he was meaning both, something to do with the sun and desmonds son, not one or the other. Kina like someone in a panic trying to explain something. Like imagine something bad happening and someone says something like "omg your house.... YOUR FAMILY!" like saying the sun is important but his son is even more important to the issue. See what I'm tryin to say?

nightpriestess
11-22-2010, 08:50 PM
Some people aren't convince by the animus-within-the-animus theory because there just isn't any evidence for it. Plus there's no glitches happening while you play as Desmond and when you pause the game, no Animus menu shows up. I can't speak for everyone and that's personally why I don't think it's a plausible theory, plus it's just bad story telling IMO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
No one is talking about the white van shaun talked about in the e-mails. It is obvious the people that was heard in the credits came from this van.

One little theory that hit me when I started typing this was, why couldn't these two people talking in the credits be people from Abstergo? And that is why Desmond says "No!". What if Abstergo Agents followed them and watching them and moved in on an oppertune time and got Desmond back? So that in AC:3 you start back in an Abstergo lab?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably because one of the voices didn't want to put Desmond back in the Animus. Nice voice= Assassins apparently. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Mysterio43
11-22-2010, 08:52 PM
Just because someone didn't want to put him back in doesn't mean its a good guy. Abstergo NEEDS Desmond. They don't want him dead

esilva1229
11-22-2010, 08:52 PM
in the official strategy guide at the end it says that desmond replies to the guards with a weak no. so its definitely desmonds voice not his sons. Also why would his son relive ezio's memories through Desmond it seems easier to just live through desmonds and skip the animus part.desmond is placed back into the animus 2.0 so he couldn't
have been recaptured by abstergo

bsmith239
11-22-2010, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Animus in a animus works b/c the the whole point of the device is to let you relive ancestors memory's. If someone from the future related to Desmond is reliving Desmonds life he would see everything Desmond saw. That would include the time spent in the animus. Its not like he goes to sleep while he is in there. He is awake, living, creating memories.



All this talk of sun going supernova is wrong. If that happen to the TOWCB (she mentions a simialr event), earth would be gone as well as everything in the solar system. Whats going to happen on Dec 12, 2012 is an evet that is actually very real (which was pretty sick how they tied that in IMO). The earth's poles have been documented to reverse. During this time there is no magnetic protection from the sun which could send a coronal mass ejection our way. This would take out every transformer and power line, not to mention bake the side of the earth that gets hit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, you realize that it takes upwards of 3000 years for the poles to "shift" and during that time we would still have a magnetosphere (sp?) to protect us. The poles cannot disappear over night. That may be how crazy people who believe in this crap think but its not how mother nature works. (I hate that the 2012 myth is being woven into the plotline of a great game, its just sooooo stupid and uneducated).

nightpriestess
11-22-2010, 08:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
Just because someone didn't want to put him back in doesn't mean its a good guy. Abstergo NEEDS Desmond. They don't want him dead </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol just saying, that's why I think some people assume they're assassin. I personally have no clue but am leaning towards Abstergo.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Posted Nov 22, 7:52 PM Hide Post
in the official strategy guide at the end it says that desmond replies to the guards with a weak no. so its definitely desmonds voice not his sons. Also why would his son relive ezio's memories through Desmond it seems easier to just live through desmonds and skip the animus part. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forgot to mention this too, why would his son want to relive Altair's and Ezio's memories through Desmond? What purpose did that serve?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">..(I hate that the 2012 myth is being woven into the plotline of a great game, its just sooooo stupid and uneducated). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally don't believe in any of these kind of conspiracy theories or alternate histories like Atlantis and ancient astronauts. But as a fictional story? I have no problem with it. But yeah, the people who honestly believe the world will end in 2012 are idiots.

oricle
11-22-2010, 09:00 PM
i think the idea that the two men putting desmond back into the animus suports the son theory isnt true. the animus has aleady had adverse effects on his mind and thats probably what one of the men said when they said thats what did his to him. the reason he went into shock was probably the combination of junos forced control over his body, the animuses bleeding effect, and killing lucy.

Mysterio43
11-22-2010, 09:00 PM
Ah ok, I read your tone wrong. I am also leaning towards Abstergo. I think Lucy is absolutely dead. Just because she seemed like she had a thing for Desmond, doesn't mean she really does/did.It wouldn't suprise me at all if she was a double-agent. One of the voices/people in the van could be that guy (forgot his name) that she was talking to in the e-mail. She saught his advice and he told her to keep him up to date, so he is obviously more experienced and an "expert". So I'm pretty sure he was one of the guys talking.

ArticPath
11-22-2010, 09:25 PM
I find it interesting that at the start of the game Shawn, I think, states that there were complications of some sort when they tried to us the animus with a pregnant woman because the memories would fight for dominance in something that was like a memory inside a memory.
So could Desmond's son be important in some way? If he/she is a large part of the next game then it is probably going to be on the grounds that Pieces of Eden or whatever tech that will save the earth can't separate the dna of the child from the mother seeing as the animus is based on that technology so the same problems could still occur. Only they would use it to start and use the machine(s) that are going to save the world in some way.
Personally I don’t want the child, if any, to become a “key” of any sorts. I hope that Subject 16’s message was grander in scale like when people are talking about your children and their children’s children; it’s just a way to hit a message closer to home and reinforce how big an event is.

Mysterio43
11-22-2010, 09:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ArticPath:
I find it interesting that at the start of the game Shawn, I think, states that there were complications of some sort when they tried to us the animus with a pregnant woman because the memories would fight for dominance in something that was like a memory inside a memory.
So could Desmond's son be important in some way? If he/she is a large part of the next game then it is probably going to be on the grounds that Pieces of Eden or whatever tech that will save the earth can't separate the dna of the child from the mother seeing as the animus is based on that technology so the same problems could still occur. Only they would use it to start and use the machine(s) that are going to save the world in some way.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I forgot all about that conversation. Hmm. I wonder who this woman was. She would obviously had to be someone important for them to try to use her.

bsmith239
11-22-2010, 10:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">..(I hate that the 2012 myth is being woven into the plotline of a great game, its just sooooo stupid and uneducated). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I personally don't believe in any of these kind of conspiracy theories or alternate histories like Atlantis and ancient astronauts. But as a fictional story? I have no problem with it. But yeah, the people who honestly believe the world will end in 2012 are idiots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I love the conspiracy theory just not 2012 end of the world stuff. Conspiracy theories are always fun!

Radman500
11-22-2010, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ArticPath:
I find it interesting that at the start of the game Shawn, I think, states that there were complications of some sort when they tried to us the animus with a pregnant woman because the memories would fight for dominance in something that was like a memory inside a memory.
So could Desmond's son be important in some way? If he/she is a large part of the next game then it is probably going to be on the grounds that Pieces of Eden or whatever tech that will save the earth can't separate the dna of the child from the mother seeing as the animus is based on that technology so the same problems could still occur. Only they would use it to start and use the machine(s) that are going to save the world in some way.
Personally I don’t want the child, if any, to become a “key” of any sorts. I hope that Subject 16’s message was grander in scale like when people are talking about your children and their children’s children; it’s just a way to hit a message closer to home and reinforce how big an event is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>why dont you want the child to be the "key"???

Radman500
11-22-2010, 10:09 PM
what if juno, minerva know desmond cannot stop the supernova, sun explosion or whatever... so he has to go to eden, find the descendant of eden and restart life there... what if eden is the only place that can surive the destruction...

Sparty2020
11-22-2010, 10:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:
Also, I don't get why people think the guy saying "no" at the end is his son when it's obviously Desmond's voice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>People are stupid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

This Animus within an Animus thing is completely absurd. As it has been said dozens of times already, there is no sync bar, there are no glitches, the pause menu is a simple start menu, you can't jump around, and having "memories within memories" would lead to extreme psychological trauma...

This "Son" theory is also stupid. Unless the son is like Athena who splits Zeus' skull open and leaps out fully-grown and wearing battle armor and a spear I highly doubt the son would be useful. If Desmond had the brat on October 10th then it would still take 9 months of pregnancy the push the little sucker out. And I find it extremely absurd that in AC1, AC2, and ACB 25-yr old Desmond never made any mention of his son. Neither him, nor Lucy, nor Vidic seemed to even know of the kid's existence.

Also, according to the Official Strategy Guide, at the ending Desmond was exhausted and knocked out from the Apple (sorta like Ezio) and dragged by two men to the back of a van. They were discussing what to do with him, and when they decided on the Animus Desmond attempted a weak resistance ("No!") but was eventually put back in.

Personally I prefer the OSG to most of these theories.

nightpriestess
11-22-2010, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:
Also, I don't get why people think the guy saying "no" at the end is his son when it's obviously Desmond's voice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>People are stupid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

This Animus within an Animus thing is completely absurd. As it has been said dozens of times already, there is no sync bar, there are no glitches, the pause menu is a simple start menu, you can't jump around, and having "memories within memories" would lead to extreme psychological trauma...

This "Son" theory is also stupid. Unless the son is like Athena who splits Zeus' skull open and leaps out fully-grown and wearing battle armor and a spear I highly doubt the son would be useful. If Desmond had the brat on October 10th then it would still take 9 months of pregnancy the push the little sucker out. And I find it extremely absurd that in AC1, AC2, and ACB 25-yr old Desmond never made any mention of his son. Neither him, nor Lucy, nor Vidic seemed to even know of the kid's existence.

Also, according to the Official Strategy Guide, at the ending Desmond was exhausted and knocked out from the Apple (sorta like Ezio) and dragged by two men to the back of a van. They were discussing what to do with him, and when they decided on the Animus Desmond attempted a weak resistance ("No!") but was eventually put back in.

Personally I prefer the OSG to most of these theories. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol I think people see what they want to see (or in this case, hear). People already set on believing the son theory don't think it sounds like Desmond. I personally don't see that, nor what Shawn said about memory within a memory being a clue that we're really playing as Desmond's son. Same with the subtitles, I don't think Ubisoft was hinting at anything like that. Anyway, yeah I agree 100% with ya.

Also, what's OSG?

Sparty2020
11-23-2010, 12:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:
Also, what's OSG? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Official Strategy Guide http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

nightpriestess
11-23-2010, 01:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:
Also, what's OSG? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Official Strategy Guide http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh *headpalm* thanks! XD

SWJS
11-23-2010, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nightpriestess:
Also, I don't get why people think the guy saying "no" at the end is his son when it's obviously Desmond's voice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>People are stupid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

This Animus within an Animus thing is completely absurd. As it has been said dozens of times already, there is no sync bar, there are no glitches, the pause menu is a simple start menu, you can't jump around, and having "memories within memories" would lead to extreme psychological trauma...

This "Son" theory is also stupid. Unless the son is like Athena who splits Zeus' skull open and leaps out fully-grown and wearing battle armor and a spear I highly doubt the son would be useful. If Desmond had the brat on October 10th then it would still take 9 months of pregnancy the push the little sucker out. And I find it extremely absurd that in AC1, AC2, and ACB 25-yr old Desmond never made any mention of his son. Neither him, nor Lucy, nor Vidic seemed to even know of the kid's existence.

Also, according to the Official Strategy Guide, at the ending Desmond was exhausted and knocked out from the Apple (sorta like Ezio) and dragged by two men to the back of a van. They were discussing what to do with him, and when they decided on the Animus Desmond attempted a weak resistance ("No!") but was eventually put back in.

Personally I prefer the OSG to most of these theories. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>THIS http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
LOL, you realize that it takes upwards of 3000 years for the poles to "shift" and during that time we would still have a magnetosphere (sp?) to protect us. The poles cannot disappear over night. That may be how crazy people who believe in this crap think but its not how mother nature works. (I hate that the 2012 myth is being woven into the plotline of a great game, its just sooooo stupid and uneducated). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realize this is a video game and not real world? Thats what they've done through out the entire game, take things that are real or somewhat real and twist just a little to make it believable in their plot line.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sparty2020:
People are stupid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

This Animus within an Animus thing is completely absurd. As it has been said dozens of times already, there is no sync bar, there are no glitches, the pause menu is a simple start menu, you can't jump around, and having "memories within memories" would lead to extreme psychological trauma...

This "Son" theory is also stupid. Unless the son is like Athena who splits Zeus' skull open and leaps out fully-grown and wearing battle armor and a spear I highly doubt the son would be useful. If Desmond had the brat on October 10th then it would still take 9 months of pregnancy the push the little sucker out. And I find it extremely absurd that in AC1, AC2, and ACB 25-yr old Desmond never made any mention of his son. Neither him, nor Lucy, nor Vidic seemed to even know of the kid's existence.

Also, according to the Official Strategy Guide, at the ending Desmond was exhausted and knocked out from the Apple (sorta like Ezio) and dragged by two men to the back of a van. They were discussing what to do with him, and when they decided on the Animus Desmond attempted a weak resistance ("No!") but was eventually put back in.

Personally I prefer the OSG to most of these theories. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The animus within a animus is not absurd although reading your OSG statement I'm beginning to believe its not what happen. Regardless it would work b/c the animus is like those chairs from the matrix. You sit in, load up a program or memory then have at it. There are Virtual training sessions you can do which means anyone with an animus can load whatever they want into it. So this idea would work and all it would take is for who has desmond to just load the villa program.

Again I really don't believe this now but just wanted to point out how it could work. The idea of abstergo recapturing desmond makes the most sense. They followed him to the apple thanks to lucy I'm guessing and took him after he went into shock.

Dbaglurker
11-23-2010, 06:17 AM
Posted this some where else but should have posted it here I guess.

Ok so I've searched everywhere and can't seem to find anyone talking about this but has anybody played around with the little snippets of video and sound in the subject 16 menu?
Here are my observations and thoughts.

First of all the obvious, if you scroll from left to right you see the sentence "The miracle is in the execution".

Second, if you look closely you can see a fuzzy almost baby like face in the static that plays on each clip.

Third, you will have to turn your volume right up for this one, but there is the sound of a heart beat in the background and the best way to describe it is the "heartbeat in the womb sound". I also noticed a faint voice in the background, and interestingly if you click on multiple videos quickly it overlaps the audio section. So try this, turn your volume up and quickly scroll through all the videos clicking "play video" on each one, the end result is a very freaky sounding snippet of noise.

Anyhow bringing these observations to a point, I have a theory. Considering the word "miracle" (the miracle is in the execution) was usually associated with the giving of life, is it possible that Desmond impregnated Lucy when he stabbed her in the abdomen? Meaning Lucy is indeed connected to the blood line of Eve?
Thoghts?

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 07:08 AM
execution could also be meant in the computer sense, .exe file. Some program needs to be executed for a miracle to happen. Far fetched I know but just looking at it from another angle. I feel like they put a lot of double meanings to words to through you off.

Keksus
11-23-2010, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for this "Son-of-Desmond" theory... I'm not buying into that one bit. First of all, we hear Desmond protesting the 2 voices during the credits. Yes, I know, characteristics are passed on through genes, but lets be serious: that was Desmond's voice, no one elses. Plus, I'm a little confused by this animus inside an animus theory someone brought up, about a Desmond Jr. playing Ezio via playing Desmond... If this Desmond Jr. was reliving Desmond Sr.'s life, then wouldnt that mean when Desmond Sr. went into the animus on Altair or Ezio that Desmond Jr. was just watching Desmond Sr. sleep/twitch(or whatever a body does when in the animus)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, he wouldn't see Desmond sleep because of the bleeding effect. Through the bleeding effect Altairs and Ezios memories became Desmonds memories. So I think his son could see Altairs and Ezios memories through Desmonds memories.

And maybe Desmond is the savior because he stops the Abstergo sattelite launch. But maybe his son has an even greater part to play.

Of course, all of this are theories. But we can be sure with one thing: The parts with desmond aren't reality. Subject 16 said so. But what exactly we are seeing is another thing. Maybe the real desmond is just controlled by a PoE and relieves things he already did.

jcoyle_hull
11-23-2010, 07:34 AM
There is alot of discussion about subject 16 being desmonds father and then that subject 15 who was infact pregnant was his mother, if this was the case then they would have your whole family investigating your past lives, basically i think desmonds son is inside an animus revisiting his fathers memories which we are playing so its an animus in an animus and when desmond kills lucy and then you hear the guys saying get him back in or out( i didnt hear the conversation properly) its desmonds son


also it could be that the the 2 men talking are templars and they have made desmonds son go into a coma as they said they could in ac 1 and then your living through your fathers memories because the templars need to know what desmond found out when he escaped them .

just my thoughts anyone think anything on them lines.

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
execution could also be meant in the computer sense, .exe file. Some program needs to be executed for a miracle to happen. Far fetched I know but just looking at it from another angle. I feel like they put a lot of double meanings to words to through you off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya I'm pretty sure the execution thing is just about Subject 16 and that's it. I don't think it has anything to do with a baby. I think Subject 16 is technically dead, but some how lives on in the memories of the animus. Like his soul got stuck in it, after all he did hack the animus.

I think the whole son thing is going to save the world is hogwash. Like others have said, Desmond is the main character and to switch to someone else, even his son, would be a dumb thing to do. I think if anything his son in the distance future may be key to helping humanity get back on its feet or something like that, but Desmond is going to be the one to save the world.

Also people are saying it is a game and anything could happen. Well that is true, but even though the game its self is fictional, it uses a lot of real world events and is a pretty solid story and tends to make a lot of sense. Although Ubisoft throws alot of double meaning things into the game, but it really is the simpler answer that seems more logical.

-Lucy is dead- probably was a templar.
-Two guys in the van that was heard in the credits are Abstergo agents.
-Subject 16 is dead, but through some kind of a miracle of knowledge is still alive in the animus
-Desmond has to find a descendant of Eve, save the world and THEN have a child who will have the full DNA and will help to do great things in the future.

Geinref
11-23-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm loving the theories on here but one thing i did notice after hearing the ending. The guy that said "put him back in the animus" sounds alot like the guy viddic was talking to at the end of AC1!

I'm guessing Abstergo has Desmond now...I wonder if Desmond killed rebecca and shaun.

nightpriestess
11-23-2010, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keksus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for this "Son-of-Desmond" theory... I'm not buying into that one bit. First of all, we hear Desmond protesting the 2 voices during the credits. Yes, I know, characteristics are passed on through genes, but lets be serious: that was Desmond's voice, no one elses. Plus, I'm a little confused by this animus inside an animus theory someone brought up, about a Desmond Jr. playing Ezio via playing Desmond... If this Desmond Jr. was reliving Desmond Sr.'s life, then wouldnt that mean when Desmond Sr. went into the animus on Altair or Ezio that Desmond Jr. was just watching Desmond Sr. sleep/twitch(or whatever a body does when in the animus)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, he wouldn't see Desmond sleep because of the bleeding effect. Through the bleeding effect Altairs and Ezios memories became Desmonds memories. So I think his son could see Altairs and Ezios memories through Desmonds memories.

And maybe Desmond is the savior because he stops the Abstergo sattelite launch. But maybe his son has an even greater part to play.

Of course, all of this are theories. But we can be sure with one thing: The parts with desmond aren't reality. Subject 16 said so. But what exactly we are seeing is another thing. Maybe the real desmond is just controlled by a PoE and relieves things he already did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where exactly in the game is this stated? For the first half, why would he even want to view Desmond relive Altair and Ezio's memories in the first place? What purpose does that serve? If he needed information from them, Lucy and he gang had already recorded the sessions they had with Desmond. If it's to make his son some super awesome assassin, why bother going into Desmond's memory in the first place? I'd assume reliving two people's memories at once would fry his brain really badly.

xCr0wnedNorris
11-23-2010, 08:49 AM
I've seen this a lot in the posted comments so I'm just going to clear things up. THAT WASN'T MINERVA(the person who made Desmond stab Lucy)! That was another member of Those Who Came Before, her name is Juno.

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 08:49 AM
I was just wondering if there was any kind of hints on the drive to the collusium. I remember watching that and thinking "really, did we really need a silent quick view of the drive?" I'm gonna go check out youtube to see if there is a video of that quick part to see if i can see something in it.

Edit: Ugh. I can't find any videos of this part.

Geinref
11-23-2010, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
I was just wondering if there was any kind of hints on the drive to the collusium. I remember watching that and thinking "really, did we really need a silent quick view of the drive?" I'm gonna go check out youtube to see if there is a video of that quick part to see if i can see something in it.

Edit: Ugh. I can't find any videos of this part. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it was just a way to disguise some loading! Since he's not in the animus they can't show the white screen with the diamond. They do it too in AC2 when he's in the trunk of lucy's car.

If you look at desmond he tries to look at lucy as if he wants to make some kind of conversation lol.

Sadiztic666
11-23-2010, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
I was just wondering if there was any kind of hints on the drive to the collusium. I remember watching that and thinking "really, did we really need a silent quick view of the drive?" I'm gonna go check out youtube to see if there is a video of that quick part to see if i can see something in it.

Edit: Ugh. I can't find any videos of this part. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it was just a way to disguise some loading! Since he's not in the animus they can't show the white screen with the diamond. They do it too in AC2 when he's in the trunk of lucy's car.

If you look at desmond he tries to look at lucy as if he wants to make some kind of conversation lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i agree, Desmond tries to look at her to start a conversation.

http://talesofvanity.blogspot.com

Keksus
11-23-2010, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Where exactly in the game is this stated? For the first half, why would he even want to view Desmond relive Altair and Ezio's memories in the first place? What purpose does that serve? If he needed information from them, Lucy and he gang had already recorded the sessions they had with Desmond. If it's to make his son some super awesome assassin, why bother going into Desmond's memory in the first place? I'd assume reliving two people's memories at once would fry his brain really badly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's just stated that it's far later than we think. Subject 16 said so in the last The Truth segment. But if we're playing as desmonds son or not is another thing. I'm just saying we can be sure that the things we play with desmond aren't what they seem to be.

Cyclonas
11-23-2010, 09:52 AM
Okay I just came up with maybe a bit stupid idea. I haven't been looking for any information to confirm this, but it seems logical to me. So I just watched the "I am alive" game trailer and, okay I don't know anything about its story but isn't it some kind of cataclysm kind of thing which you survive? So since there is the achievement in ACB "I am alive" maybe these two games could be somehow connected?

Was just reading this thread and came up with that. I don't really think that is true, but well... who knows (could be that everyone knows except me o.o)

Ragnar---
11-23-2010, 10:13 AM
Disappointed in the ending and the whole 'Expansion pack' that I bought for £40 lol.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 10:31 AM
They need to really let you replay any mission when ever you want or at least after you beat the game. All the stuff at end comes so quick you really don't have time to digest it all. Now you have replay the entire game to see it again or hope some one online posts a crappy quality video.

Twinblade63
11-23-2010, 11:30 AM
I don't think the voices we hear during the credits are abstergo agents... If they were, they would likely just kill Desmond, seeing as he already found the Apple, right? I mean, that's all the Templars wanted from desmond. The location of the Apple. If they were waiting, and then swooped in on the group after desmond fainted, well... The Apple would have been lying right beside his body! The templars would have just grabbed it and walked away, or even killed desmond and his buddies (wherever they got to)... No, there's much much more to this than any of us can say at this point I think. All we can do is speculate. However for now I'm under the impression those were NOT Abstergo agents who put desmond back in the animus.

Twinblade63
11-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Also: Juno seemed a little suspicious to me. For one, in AC2 didn't Minerva tell us she was the last of her kind? I think her words were: "I was the last of my kind... And now I too am gone" or something like that. So either Minerva was lying, Juno fooled Minerva and is somehow not as innocent as we think she is (talk about a conspiracy theory, huh? :P), or this was an oversight on the part of Ubisoft, which is possible, but unlikely... Either way, there's something suspicious about these Ones Who Came Before to me. Juno especially. This would also explain Juno forcing desmond to kill Lucy, although I already said and i still stand by my opinion that Lucy is not dead. :/ This stuff is pretty damn crazy. I'm just trying to look at it from every possible angle.

mikeh1294
11-23-2010, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
They need to really let you replay any mission when ever you want or at least after you beat the game. All the stuff at end comes so quick you really don't have time to digest it all. Now you have replay the entire game to see it again or hope some one online posts a crappy quality video. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm... You can replay any mission...?

Elatreus
11-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Well, I completed it 2 days ago, and I'm left with more questions than ever!

The ending left me in real shock, I couldn't believe Juno made Desmond stab Lucy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif. I'm still hoping that maybe she managed to survive, maybe the apple has some sort of healing power that Desmond could use to save her?

I really dont think Lucy is a templar, remember in AC1 when Desmond first got his eagle vision, and through that he saw Lucy was an ally (Blue glow), and she always appeared with a blue glow in ACII and ACB. Surely if she was a templar, it would of been revealed to Desmond through his eagle vision (Red glow).

Geinref
11-23-2010, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Twinblade63:
I don't think the voices we hear during the credits are abstergo agents... If they were, they would likely just kill Desmond, seeing as he already found the Apple, right? I mean, that's all the Templars wanted from desmond. The location of the Apple. If they were waiting, and then swooped in on the group after desmond fainted, well... The Apple would have been lying right beside his body! The templars would have just grabbed it and walked away, or even killed desmond and his buddies (wherever they got to)... No, there's much much more to this than any of us can say at this point I think. All we can do is speculate. However for now I'm under the impression those were NOT Abstergo agents who put desmond back in the animus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then again Desmond has seen alot through the memories that Abstergo probably doesnt even know, example, the temples and about the sun. What's the point of having the pieces of eden and getting to rule the world when the sun has cooked everyone?!

It's all speculation like you said, for all we know its probably that William M guy from the emails, though he seemed curious on Desmond's condition from the animus sessions. I honeslty don't think it's him in the end cause the guy in the credits sounded pretty forceful about keeping him in the animus.

Also, how would you feel if you were about to find out some valuable information and then your guy goes into shock causing you to delay. You want to shove that person back in there to find out whats going on. Sounds like abstergo attitute to me; then again this is just my opinion.

Funny how ubisoft cut off shaun as he was about to say the location of those symbols! such a tease lol

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
They need to really let you replay any mission when ever you want or at least after you beat the game. All the stuff at end comes so quick you really don't have time to digest it all. Now you have replay the entire game to see it again or hope some one online posts a crappy quality video. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm... You can replay any mission...? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll check again but any mission I already got 100% on just plays cut scenes. Is that not suppose to happen? have you been able to replay the last memory?

Thanks

Geinref
11-23-2010, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mikini:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
They need to really let you replay any mission when ever you want or at least after you beat the game. All the stuff at end comes so quick you really don't have time to digest it all. Now you have replay the entire game to see it again or hope some one online posts a crappy quality video. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm... You can replay any mission...? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll check again but any mission I already got 100% on just plays cut scenes. Is that not suppose to happen? have you been able to replay the last memory?

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm thinking that you can't replay desmond's part at the end since that is out of the animus. Then again i might be wrong cause I haven't tried it myself.

Elatreus
11-23-2010, 12:28 PM
Nope, you cant replay Desmonds part's again, I wanted to watch the end again to try to make sense of it.

I just watched the ending again on Youtube, there's a few videos up. Didn't feel like replaying the whole game right now.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Did anyone try using eagle vision to look at lucy when she leaves the villa to go outside and look at the moon?

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 12:41 PM
Well she's blue,normal so don't worry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

But did anyone notice this:
At the end of the game there some Assassin signs made of stone(they're like part of the wall,sorry I'm not english).
And when you look at them in eagle vision they are RED.
You can see it n this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b2Icpb4swQ#t=6m5

Keksus
11-23-2010, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Did anyone try using eagle vision to look at lucy when she leaves the villa to go outside and look at the moon? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She was blue like a 20-year-old on a friday evening.

But I think something's wrong with Lucy. I doubt that she is as loyal too the assassins as Shaun or Rebecca. Not enough information. She just "has her ways" to get all this Abstergo stuff.

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone try using eagle vision to look at lucy when she leaves the villa to go outside and look at the moon? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must have missed that. She went outside to "look at the moon"? Was anyone with her? If not, that could me that it was an excuse to leave to speak with the guys in the van.

Keksus
11-23-2010, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I must have missed that. She went outside to "look at the moon"? Was anyone with her? If not, that could me that it was an excuse to leave to speak with the guys in the van. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can speak with her. She goes outside with the sentence "Someone just volunteered to get some food." after Shaun made a stupid joke.

Elatreus
11-23-2010, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone try using eagle vision to look at lucy when she leaves the villa to go outside and look at the moon? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must have missed that. She went outside to "look at the moon"? Was anyone with her? If not, that could me that it was an excuse to leave to speak with the guys in the van. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She was on her own. You two just have a little chat.

But this got me thinking, did anyone notice during sequence 6 and sequence 7, if you left the animus, Lucy was nowhere to be found (unless she's really good at hiding and I couldn't find her) Where could she of got too? hmm...

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Elatreus:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mysterio43:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zerocooll21:

But this got me thinking, did anyone notice during sequence 6 and sequence 7, if you left the animus, Lucy was nowhere to be found (unless she's really good at hiding and I couldn't find her) Where could she of got too? hmm... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya! I did see that. I got out and was walking around talking to people and I could not find her. BUT! when talkin to Rebecca i think, she mentioned something about food and I remember thinking that's where she went.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Nah,he was kinda sad,you could talk to her.Then there was a short video,and she went inside again,nothing more.

What much more is worrying me are the red footsteps which you see in eagle vision,and that the assassin signs are red,you can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b2Icpb4swQ#t=6m5

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 12:50 PM
yah i noticed that, if you keep checking the leave animus button when you press start there will be a ! in red telling you to check it out. I just kept going back and she was gone for most of the time. Plus she acted very distant the whole game, something is up.

Geinref
11-23-2010, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Elatreus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mysterio43:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone try using eagle vision to look at lucy when she leaves the villa to go outside and look at the moon? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must have missed that. She went outside to "look at the moon"? Was anyone with her? If not, that could me that it was an excuse to leave to speak with the guys in the van. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

She was on her own. You two just have a little chat.

But this got me thinking, did anyone notice during sequence 6 and sequence 7, if you left the animus, Lucy was nowhere to be found (unless she's really good at hiding and I couldn't find her) Where could she of got too? hmm... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wondered that too and it bothered me just as much as that damn red trail in front of the villa! I even stood at the front gate for awhile to see if maybe a van would pass by or something lol.

After that conversation with her outside and how she doesn't know how long this whole templar vs assassins thing is going to last, i felt bad when u stabbed her at the end. It's like she wanted to see the end of this whole thing so she can go back into having a life, now shes gonehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

That's only if she really is dead!

jrock20042004
11-23-2010, 12:50 PM
Did anyone notice on one of the last times you left the animus that Lucy was nowhere to be found? I searched everywhere. Thoughts?

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 12:52 PM
I don't know why people keep saying foot steps, those don't look like foot steps at all. It looks more like some one was killed and dragged.

Maybe Lucy was killed and replaced with a clone haha! Ok maybe not but still looks like someone was dragged either to the villa or from the villa to the Van.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jrock20042004:
Did anyone notice on one of the last times you left the animus that Lucy was nowhere to be found? I searched everywhere. Thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you look outside?

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 12:57 PM
I should have went outside more. I only did once for like 2 minutes when it gave me 10 minutes to get back. After that I never went back outside.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 12:59 PM
Did anyone wait till the time expired to see what happens? They mention that Desmond can't be out side for longer than 10 mins b/c he might get spotted. Maybe you can lure abstergo agents out? Is there a way to get out of the villa?

Geinref
11-23-2010, 01:02 PM
Someone in this thread

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/3111057298 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3111057298)

mentioned that it was ezio's blood from the time he got shot and took that same route back into the villa. My post about what i think of that is on there too.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone wait till the time expired to see what happens? They mention that Desmond can't be out side for longer than 10 mins b/c he might get spotted. Maybe you can lure abstergo agents out? Is there a way to get out of the villa? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did it,well when 1minute is left.Lucy calls you and tells you to come back.When the time is run out nothing happens,there's just the normal loading screen and your automatically in the room with the animus(it's like you get teleported lol)

Geinref
11-23-2010, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kolbaskat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone wait till the time expired to see what happens? They mention that Desmond can't be out side for longer than 10 mins b/c he might get spotted. Maybe you can lure abstergo agents out? Is there a way to get out of the villa? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did it,well when 1minute is left.Lucy calls you and tells you to come back.When the time is run out nothing happens,there's just the normal loading screen and your automatically in the room with the animus(it's like you get teleported lol) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's funny how if u go back into the underground and then back out the timer resets to 10 minutes again. They should of just not have a timer at all.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 01:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kolbaskat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
Did anyone wait till the time expired to see what happens? They mention that Desmond can't be out side for longer than 10 mins b/c he might get spotted. Maybe you can lure abstergo agents out? Is there a way to get out of the villa? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did it,well when 1minute is left.Lucy calls you and tells you to come back.When the time is run out nothing happens,there's just the normal loading screen and your automatically in the room with the animus(it's like you get teleported lol) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hahaha

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
Someone in this thread

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/3111057298 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3111057298)

mentioned that it was ezio's blood from the time he got shot and took that same route back into the villa. My post about what i think of that is on there too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bullet holes in the van!? man that was a good find.

I don't know about the whole desmond can see ezio blood b/c they are related bit. If that was the case I'm sure he bleed all over that villa. Its right where the van was supposed to be which was shot at could mean some one recently bleed there.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 01:14 PM
I will try to confirm this,not now but sometime later,since I did not get my trophies for Sequence 2 and the first Romolus hide out -.-

Geinref
11-23-2010, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
Someone in this thread

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/3111057298 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3111057298)

mentioned that it was ezio's blood from the time he got shot and took that same route back into the villa. My post about what i think of that is on there too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bullet holes in the van!? man that was a good find.

I don't know about the whole desmond can see ezio blood b/c they are related bit. If that was the case I'm sure he bleed all over that villa. Its right where the van was supposed to be which was shot at could mean some one recently bleed there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah about those bullet holes on the van was pretty good.

The reason i think desmond can see it is because desmond relived that moment were ezio got shot and all so to him he was able to see the trail. Then again how does that explain desmond seeing ezio jump around when hes trying to get to the sanctuary place if desmond didnt experience that! hmmm makes no sense, that bleeding effect must suck for desmond.

Maybe there is something else about that trail...

Mysterio43
11-23-2010, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FernieG:
Someone in this thread

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/3111057298 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3111057298)

mentioned that it was ezio's blood from the time he got shot and took that same route back into the villa. My post about what i think of that is on there too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bullet holes in the van!? man that was a good find.

I don't know about the whole desmond can see ezio blood b/c they are related bit. If that was the case I'm sure he bleed all over that villa. Its right where the van was supposed to be which was shot at could mean some one recently bleed there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah about those bullet holes on the van was pretty good.

The reason i think desmond can see it is because desmond relived that moment were ezio got shot and all so to him he was able to see the trail. Then again how does that explain desmond seeing ezio jump around when hes trying to get to the sanctuary place if desmond didnt experience that! hmmm makes no sense, that bleeding effect must suck for desmond.

Maybe there is something else about that trail... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's definitely got to be something else about the trail other than it being Ezio's blood. I don't think that's possible. With it leading to the van that has bullet holes, I would assume someone was probably shot/injured in present time. I wish I would have came across it myself while playing.

mikeh1294
11-23-2010, 01:27 PM
I've started to do all of the Romulus lairs, and one of the letters (I'm 99% sure it's the 4th) has an interesting picture. It's the room at the end, where Desmond gets the apple.

Now, this means that Romulus or Brutus (I'm never sure who is writing those, think it's Brutus though) saw that room. Also, one of the letters speaks about Rome burning, and how they had to stop this. Could Brutus have used the Apple to see into the future, and kill Caesar to stop this?

Also, the end bit is in the Temple of Juno, a Roman goddess, so it fits with the Brutus/Caesar bit.

However, that would mean that the Apple was in Rome between Altair and Ezio though.


EDIT: Another observation, in one of the Project Legacy/Brotherhood tie in memories, the Assassin Order is warned not to trust the Orsini, who were helping them regain Roma, do you think this has any significance?

Elatreus
11-23-2010, 01:36 PM
I'm sure in one of the documents, Brutus mentions how he cant reach the end of the room or something, so I doubt he gets to the room where the apple lay.
Plus Ezio puts the apple in there, so there wouldn't of been an apple there at that time? or maybe there was, and he removed it.

About him seeing an image of Rome burning, maybe it was about this 2012 solar flare, so he's probally seeing the future Rome burning in this huge solar flare.

Ookakiba
11-23-2010, 01:43 PM
First off, just because Lucy was always in blue, doesn't mean she's one of the good guys. Maybe that's just what desmond percieved, but she's really a double agent. To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys.

On a further point for Subject 16's truth video: "The Miracle is in the execution." Anybody ever think that he might mean execution as in kill? Perhaps, killing Lucy was the key to finding the temples. Also, anybody have any clue what Subject 16 means about "finding him the darkness." I love how half the people here went theory-gasm over one word, yet ignored the rest of his message.

What about the truth video from AC2? I'm sure that correlates with what's going on now.

Also for the two guys who are dragging desmond back into the animus, they could either be Abstergo or Assassin's who know about the animus. It's way to early to assume anything about AC3 since Ubisoft pulled this ending on us, so it should be fun to see where they take this.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 01:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ookakiba:
First off, just because Lucy was always in blue, doesn't mean she's one of the good guys. Maybe that's just what desmond percieved, but she's really a double agent. To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys.

On a further point for Subject 16's truth video: "The Miracle is in the execution." Anybody ever think that he might mean execution as in kill? Perhaps, killing Lucy was the key to finding the temples. Also, anybody have any clue what Subject 16 means about "finding him the darkness." I love how half the people here went theory-gasm over one word, yet ignored the rest of his message.

What about the truth video from AC2? I'm sure that correlates with what's going on now.

Also for the two guys who are dragging desmond back into the animus, they could either be Abstergo or Assassin's who know about the animus. It's way to early to assume anything about AC3 since Ubisoft pulled this ending on us, so it should be fun to see where they take this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yah that line by S16 really had me thinking. The whole I'm always here or something like that would lead me to believe he's a part of Desmonds mind.

triviggy22
11-23-2010, 01:56 PM
Where to start? This game just keeps on twisting!!
Let's start with the basics, the phryigan cap is a symbol of freedom and freewill(assassins) and the Masonic eye is a symbol of control (Templars).
This gives us two clues
1. A new location: could be France in revolution. Also could be The American revolution the eye and cap are very prominent in both these periods.
2. Back to the freewill and determinism thing, the god Minerva stood for peace and freewill, she said she was the last left.
BUT
We get introduced to another god Juno, hang on!!! I thought there was only 1 left!?
She pretty much embodies the determinism thing with the whole killing of Lucy thing, she seems shady to say the least and I'm speculating completely here but when Cesere says no human hand can kill him, I think he learns via the apple that like the Ezio, he is a sort of Demi-God.
I'm just throwing it out there but the fact that Ezio reacted so scared after he went into the apple does suggest this. The fact he left Cesere to fate shows how much an absolute genius Ezio was.

Blows my mind and I have to admit I'm clutching at straws when I think assassins and Templars are involved in somesort of battle between Minerva and the Gods who want control over humans.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe this means that Desmond is a templar :P
But I doubt it,it would be a pretty big twist lol.

btw:
Also it may be that Desmond even did not stab Lucy,as far I remember the Apple can create Illusion,maybe it was an illusion

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ookakiba:
First off, just because Lucy was always in blue, doesn't mean she's one of the good guys. Maybe that's just what desmond percieved, but she's really a double agent. To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good/bad is all a matter of perception. The color of their logo has nothing to do with anything other than maybe red for blood.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Blows my mind and I have to admit I'm clutching at straws when I think assassins and Templars are involved in somesort of battle between Minerva and the Gods who want control over humans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always,had this theory.
And the whole thing with the innocence is also doubtful.
They use the fact that Desmond does not have the sixth sense,Knowledge,which Juno talked about

Ookakiba
11-23-2010, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kolbaskat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe this means that Desmond is a templar :P
But I doubt it,it would be a pretty big twist lol.

btw:
Also it may be that Desmond even did not stab Lucy,as far I remember the Apple can create Illusion,maybe it was an illusion </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a possibility, though I'm pretty sure he stabbed her. The only thing is, what happened with Shawn and Rebecca?

Also, aren't subject 16 and Desmond both related to Ezio?

As for Juno and Minerva, I think that Minerva wanted to preserve the human race from the templars and whatever else destroyed her race. While Juno wants to restore her race and possibly, erase the human race or just has no care for humanity. Since pretty much she says she should have left humanity alone.

mikeh1294
11-23-2010, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zerocooll21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ookakiba:
First off, just because Lucy was always in blue, doesn't mean she's one of the good guys. Maybe that's just what desmond percieved, but she's really a double agent. To support this, why are the assassin symbols red if the assassin's are the good guys.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good/bad is all a matter of perception. The color of their logo has nothing to do with anything other than maybe red for blood. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he means at the end of the game, when you're in the Temple of Juno. There are Assassin symbols on the wall, only visible using eagle vision, and they glow red.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think he means at the end of the game, when you're in the Temple of Juno. There are Assassin symbols on the wall, only visible using eagle vision, and they glow red. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far I remember you can see them even without eagle vision,they are part of the wall,but in eagle vision they're red.

If the colour is made of the expression of Desmond,then that would mean that Desmond doubs the whole story :/

pain100
11-23-2010, 02:16 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on this line?

"It is hard to stay contained. Knowing as we do. We wait for you Desmond. You will come here. You will activate us. You will know only when it is too late."

Activate us? Contained? Before that she shouted. It's as if she's alive somewhere else, beaming a message into Desmond's mind. She's angry because she's trapped? Are they trapped?

Silly idea but what if each piece of eden or artifact is like a cage, containing a god. When Desmond picked up the apple of eden he was suddenly controlled. He made contact with it and that allowed his body to be controlled.

Perhaps each temple or shrine is dedicated to a different God and each of these gods are locked away.

After watching the ending again I noticed Desmond says "What's going on? 'You have activated it'. Again, this theme of activating.

P.S. Many pages back, someone made a joke about someone being born and coming out of Zeus' skull. Well hehe, made me think stabbing Lucy opened a doorway for a baby to walk out :P

Ookakiba
11-23-2010, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You will know only when it is too late." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That line right there makes me suspicious of Juno. Red Assassin's symbol color, Juno and Subject 16 saying he'll only know when its too late. Things just don't add up.

Also, as much as I love focusing on the Apple of Eden, what about the staff? That's still missing.

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ookakiba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You will know only when it is too late." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That line right there makes me suspicious of Juno. Red Assassin's symbol color, Juno and Subject 16 saying he'll only know when its too late. Things just don't add up.

Also, as much as I love focusing on the Apple of Eden, what about the staff? That's still missing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The staff is back in the Vatican under that area right before you get in the vault. You see ezio loose it in the beginning.

Its still buried there I would assume.

mikeh1294
11-23-2010, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ookakiba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You will know only when it is too late." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That line right there makes me suspicious of Juno. Red Assassin's symbol color, Juno and Subject 16 saying he'll only know when its too late. Things just don't add up.

Also, as much as I love focusing on the Apple of Eden, what about the staff? That's still missing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Staff went into the floor of the Vatican at the beginning of the game.

I think "activate us" just means use the PoE to give them power, like Minerva drew power from it in ACII.

Also, with the Phrygian cap, it appears on early American coinage, and almost was on the Great Seal, along side the Roman goddess Libertas.

pain100
11-23-2010, 02:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Red Assassin's symbol color </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly think that's just blood left by the older Ezio. I believe red is an indicator if it's used on objects but evil if on a person.

kolbaskat
11-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Quite weird,if only the symbols are red.(As stated they are part of the wall).

bsmith239
11-23-2010, 03:04 PM
I think TTCBF are completely evil. The end of the world thing is a Red Herring planted by them to get Desmond to resurrect their kind and allow them to control man once more.

The question is how did man win in the first place?

Well here is my theory based off the Adam and Eve mythology. Supposedly it is Satan who tempted Eve into taking the apple but what if this Satan is just demonized for the wrong reasons?

What if Satan (maybe jupitor) gave Adam and Eve the apple of eden so they could escape and create a resistance to humanities enslavment. This created a schism and a war between the two parties.

Legends were created to make this benevolent god evil and the taking of the apple evil when in fact it was an act of altruism. So everything in our religious history has been squewed by the "old gods" to make it look like adam and eve did somthing wrong and that the god that allowed them too is the incarnation of evil.

I believe the benevolent god may still be alive somewhere and trapped. These other gods Minerva/Juno are spreading disinformation and trying to get Desmond to recreate their kind.

In other words, the nice god spawned the assassin's by going against his own people and the others of his kind created the Templar order to control and hopefully subdue humanity again one day.

So in other words, everything we think we know is backwards and actually fabricated by beings that want to control us but no longer can (for whatever reason).

This is why subject 16 tells you not to trust her. He isn't talking about Lucy, that's what the gods want us to think, he is talking about Minerva and Juno.

mickeylfc
11-23-2010, 03:14 PM
http://static.gamesradar.com/i...d--article_image.jpg (http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Features/2009/02/Confusing_game_endings_explained/Assassin%27s_Creed--article_image.jpg)

Subject 16 painted that in his own blood in the first assassin's creed.

If before you enter the room where the apple is, you use eagle vision, you will again see that wing (or lungs, or whatever it is) symbol on the door. Which leads me to believe that 16 knew where the apple was. Which in turn, leads me to believe that he is one of the two people who find desmond and put him back in the animus. "I'm the expert" guy.

My theory on things.

When 16 tells you not to trust "her" the majority of us assume he is talking about Lucy. Though 16, who probably (we all seem to have guessed as much) has the gift of knowledge, very well could be talking about Juno.

Assassins Creed wouldn't have the whole desmon has to find eve and make a baby in eden in my opinion. Yes, he has to find Eve. They pretty much spelled that out. But having the final object of the game to be having a baby pales way way in comparison to some of the pretty shocking (even slightly terrifying, if you are that engulfed in the game) endings we've had.

Ubisoft like to completely **** our minds open. The more we learn about something in the game, the more questions it raises. We have a lot more to learn about Those who came before, Lucy and subject 16 before we start putting baby making as our top priority in the game.

Radman500
11-23-2010, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
I think TTCBF are completely evil. The end of the world thing is a Red Herring planted by them to get Desmond to resurrect their kind and allow them to control man once more.

The question is how did man win in the first place?

Well here is my theory based off the Adam and Eve mythology. Supposedly it is Satan who tempted Eve into taking the apple but what if this Satan is just demonized for the wrong reasons?

What if Satan (maybe jupitor) gave Adam and Eve the apple of eden so they could escape and create a resistance to humanities enslavment. This created a schism and a war between the two parties.

Legends were created to make Jupiter evil and the taking of the apple evil when in fact it was an act of altruism. So everything in our religious history has been squewed by the "old gods" to make it look like adam and eve did somthing wrong and that the god that allowed them too is the incarnation of evil.

I believe Jupiter may still be alive somewhere and trapped. These other gods Minerva/Juno are spreading disinformation and trying to get Desmond to recreate their kind.

In other words, Jupiter spawned the assassin's by going against his own people and the others of his kind created the Templar order to control and hopefully subdue humanity again one day.

So in other words, everything we think we know is backwards and actually fabricated by beings that want to control us but no longer can (for whatever reason).

This is why subject 16 tells you not to trust her. He isn't talking about Lucy, that's what the gods want us to think, he is talking about Minerva and Juno. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>great theory.. so basically you think jupiter went against his own kind (for some reason, maybe he didn't like the other TOWCB) so he created the assassins order, and minerva/juno and who else created the templars.. so your theory is jupiter is a good guy, but minerva/juno our not team desmond... right...


and to go further using your theory.. maybe jupiter trained adam and eve to be the first assassins in jupiter's assassin order.. he trained them in secret, so 1 day they can rebel agains the TOWCB and giving humans a chance for freedom...

Radman500
11-23-2010, 03:19 PM
what i do want... is that the final boss of AC3...(since it will be the last in the trilogy) to have a fight against a TOWCB

bsmith239
11-23-2010, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Radman500:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
I think TTCBF are completely evil. The end of the world thing is a Red Herring planted by them to get Desmond to resurrect their kind and allow them to control man once more.

The question is how did man win in the first place?

Well here is my theory based off the Adam and Eve mythology. Supposedly it is Satan who tempted Eve into taking the apple but what if this Satan is just demonized for the wrong reasons?

What if Satan (maybe jupitor) gave Adam and Eve the apple of eden so they could escape and create a resistance to humanities enslavment. This created a schism and a war between the two parties.

Legends were created to make Jupiter evil and the taking of the apple evil when in fact it was an act of altruism. So everything in our religious history has been squewed by the "old gods" to make it look like adam and eve did somthing wrong and that the god that allowed them too is the incarnation of evil.

I believe Jupiter may still be alive somewhere and trapped. These other gods Minerva/Juno are spreading disinformation and trying to get Desmond to recreate their kind.

In other words, Jupiter spawned the assassin's by going against his own people and the others of his kind created the Templar order to control and hopefully subdue humanity again one day.

So in other words, everything we think we know is backwards and actually fabricated by beings that want to control us but no longer can (for whatever reason).

This is why subject 16 tells you not to trust her. He isn't talking about Lucy, that's what the gods want us to think, he is talking about Minerva and Juno. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>great theory.. so basically you think jupiter went against his own kind (for some reason, maybe he didn't like the other TOWCB) so he created the assassins order, and minerva/juno and who else created the templars.. so your theory is jupiter is a good guy, but minerva/juno our not team desmond... right...


and to go further using your theory.. maybe jupiter trained adam and eve to be the first assassins in jupiter's assassin order.. he trained them in secret, so 1 day they can rebel agains the TOWCB and giving humans a chance for freedom... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Basically.

Think about this, how did two slaves become "self aware" under the watchful eye of these extremely advanced beings? The answer is, they needed help.

Enter benevolent god person. Gives them the apple teaches them to be free and then they escape.

If you look at AC2's "the truth" humanity IS enslaved and Adam and Eve ARE running in fear.

That is THE TRUTH. Its what subject 16 is trying to warn us of. The whole thing is completely backwards.

While the assassins may have freed humanity the gods succeeded in making the Templars the, defacto, rulers of humanity. Therefor the Templars wrote history (ie. demonizing the benevolent god and adam/eve). The assassins were too few and with their helper possibly killed, incarcerated and demonized as satan they took the role of the outside protectors.


Now, all these years past, the assassins do not remember the truth of what happened back then. Only subject 16 has found out and he has left Desmond 2 messages in the animus to try to get him to wake up and realize that he is being played.

bsmith239
11-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Sorry double post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

mickeylfc
11-23-2010, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bsmith239:
I think TTCBF are completely evil. The end of the world thing is a Red Herring planted by them to get Desmond to resurrect their kind and allow them to control man once more.

The question is how did man win in the first place?

Well here is my theory based off the Adam and Eve mythology. Supposedly it is Satan who tempted Eve into taking the apple but what if this Satan is just demonized for the wrong reasons?

What if Satan (maybe jupitor) gave Adam and Eve the apple of eden so they could escape and create a resistance to humanities enslavment. This created a schism and a war between the two parties.

Legends were created to make Jupiter evil and the taking of the apple evil when in fact it was an act of altruism. So everything in our religious history has been squewed by the "old gods" to make it look like adam and eve did somthing wrong and that the god that allowed them too is the incarnation of evil.

I believe Jupiter may still be alive somewhere and trapped. These other gods Minerva/Juno are spreading disinformation and trying to get Desmond to recreate their kind.

In other words, Jupiter spawned the assassin's by going against his own people and the others of his kind created the Templar order to control and hopefully subdue humanity again one day.

So in other words, everything we think we know is backwards and actually fabricated by beings that want to control us but no longer can (for whatever reason).

This is why subject 16 tells you not to trust her. He isn't talking about Lucy, that's what the gods want us to think, he is talking about Minerva and Juno. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you read what I said 10 minutes after I am in complete agreement with you about subject 16 warning about Juno and not Lucy. I think your theory is completely worthy of an ending to this amazing story.

I'm interested into what you make of Juno offing Lucy and telling Desmon to "go find her". She's sending him on a wild goose chase? O

zerocooll21
11-23-2010, 03:37 PM
Did anyone catch what the computer was saying during the last cluster? The last one she talks about how you're back and she miss's you. Then she starts talking about how desmond and her will be together soon. She also mentions the portal/door she will open when its time. A