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View Full Version : Official Editing of the Historical Record by Japanese Govt



leitmotiv
07-06-2007, 08:34 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0,,2120059,00.html

leitmotiv
07-06-2007, 08:34 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0,,2120059,00.html

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-06-2007, 08:48 AM
Can't say as I'm surprised. There are other movements in progress today that are attempting to challenge whether or not the Holocaust actually happened or if it too was a fabrication.

Utterly ridiculous. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Tbag_13
07-06-2007, 09:02 AM
Sad!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There are other movements in progress today that are attempting to challenge whether or not the Holocaust actually happened or if it too was a fabrication. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a slight difference if some stupid idiots try to deny history or if it is a democratic government.

LStarosta
07-06-2007, 09:03 AM
Wow, some bad people these Japanese are.

DKoor
07-06-2007, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Wow, some bad people these Japanese are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. Shocking! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Daiichidoku
07-06-2007, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
Wow, some bad people these Japanese are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. Shocking! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>.

they only LOOK bad

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/ddyr1.jpg



but in reality, they are all Dennis DeYoung

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/ddy1.jpg

MEGILE
07-06-2007, 10:05 AM
Those guys should come hang out here... they'd fit right in

neural_dream
07-06-2007, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
Those guys should come hang out here... they'd fit right in </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hahahaha

M_Gunz
07-06-2007, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Can't say as I'm surprised. There are other movements in progress today that are attempting to challenge whether or not the Holocaust actually happened or if it too was a fabrication.

Utterly ridiculous. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same ones that have been doing the same thing 30+ years now?

leitmotiv
07-06-2007, 12:18 PM
It's all absurd. They want to stiffen Japanese resolve to deal with China by declaring they are not repentent about their past atrocities, and, naturally, this infuriates the Chinese and worsens the situation. The Japanese mystical nationalist reactionaries are up to their old tricks, eye-gouging the Chinese, but, unlike the 1930's, the Chinese are not as weak, and the Japanese definitely do not have an edge. While China blusters there is nothing wrong with the Japanese recalling their victories and building their military, but for them to deliberately provoke a much stronger adversary smacks of the insanity of 1941, and makes one realize that the Japanese mystical nationalists learned absolutely NOTHING from the disaster of 1937-1945. One can only hope this government is shoved out as quickly as possible.

zugfuhrer
07-06-2007, 01:22 PM
It is very good that Japan is confess some of the dirt of their history by confirming old misstakes.

Lets hop that some more contries does the same and the dirty laundry of their history by debating many of their mistakes, why it became this way at that time etc etc.

Hoatee
07-06-2007, 01:26 PM
For example, there was a truce between Mao and the Japanese occupation forces during the Second World War in China.

LStarosta
07-06-2007, 02:00 PM
Zugfuhrer, you are the reason why I don't have sex with my cousins.

WOLFMondo
07-06-2007, 02:03 PM
Is that the only reason? What has the world come too?

J_Anonymous
07-06-2007, 02:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
One can only hope this government is shoved out as quickly as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Recent Japanese polls showed that the approval rating of the government of Prime Minister Abe is about 30%, despite the fact that the economy is in decent shape. Abe and his conservative agenda are about as unpopular in Japan as George W is in the U.S. Abe's government is expected to lose upcoming election of the upperhouse. Technically it is the lower house that elects the cabinet, hence Abe may (and probably will) refuse to step down after the election loss.

zugfuhrer
07-06-2007, 02:39 PM
LStarosta save her for me.
If it is you on your avatar talk to your parents.

WhtBoy
07-06-2007, 03:07 PM
Just for the record, it should be noted the some government officials are denouncing the movement to "sanitize" the record.

--Outlaw.

luftluuver
07-06-2007, 03:21 PM
Is -HH-Quazi going to show up with his padlock or eraser for this thread? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

T_O_A_D
07-06-2007, 03:39 PM
LStarosta,zugfuhrer Please http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

As for the article, I had the read the whole thing to get out of it, what I understood happened.

The Okinawa people already knew of Japans atraucities in china and else where, and were told the USA was by far worse, and they would be better off killing themselves than be captured.

In their shoes I can fully understand why they went through with their suicides.

Discuss this topic, nicely or yes it will be gone with the dodo bird.

carguy_
07-06-2007, 04:29 PM
I hope that all of you know the most basic international rule that every state that grows upon the previous receives its debts by a way of succesion whether it likes it or not. That goes in case the faults aswell.

LStarosta
07-06-2007, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LStarosta,zugfuhrer Please </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I quiet now!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

boxmike
07-06-2007, 05:00 PM
General McArthur who saw and met his colleagues after their POW time under Japanese, still refused to hate them, instead creating a root for new economical growth. Maybe same step as for Germans, preparing to Cold War.
I do not accept the falsifying of history, it is very close here in Finland as well where current politicians and historians have comforted themself by talking about 'Separate War' against Soviets during Continuation War, without Germans.
This all makes one to puke.

Rgds,

- box

Chris0382
07-06-2007, 05:19 PM
Geezzzze

LW_lcarp
07-06-2007, 05:35 PM
Hey if countries can do it then so can I. That drunken brawl when I was 25 never happened. I have obtained very much evidence and seeing as they was no formal arrest it just didnt happen.

Hey thats fun what else cna I think of that I didnt do?

Haigotron
07-06-2007, 08:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can't say as I'm surprised. There are other movements in progress today that are attempting to challenge whether or not the Holocaust actually happened or if it too was a fabrication.

Utterly ridiculous. Angry Blue Guy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

:Agree:

Modern day Turkey still systematically denies the Armenian genocide, keeping archives closed to researchers, historians...that's just the tip of the iceberg, I dont want to high jack this thread

Nimits
07-06-2007, 10:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I do not accept the falsifying of history, it is very close here in Finland as well where current politicians and historians have comforted themself by talking about 'Separate War' against Soviets during Continuation War, without Germans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a big difference, though. Finland was caught between a rock and a hard place, as they had already just barely survived an unprovoked war with the Soviet Union. Had things in Western Europe gone a little differently, it is quite possible that you could have seen Finland fighting the Soviet Union as a member of an Anglo-French coalition. In any event, except that they were mutual enemies of the Soviet Union, Finland showed little real enthusiasm for Nazi domestic or military policies. In what was otherwise an ugly war between two equally evil tyrannical regimes, Finland represented the only real bright spot and the closest thing to a "good guy" on the Eastern Front.

LEBillfish
07-07-2007, 12:55 AM
yawns.........Go find a highschool history textbook from 1970, then get one of 2000+.....I don't care your nation, this is a very common tale, and no matter the reason you alone must seek the truth as those in power will always edit it to suit them atm.....

Ministry of Truth.........get used to it or fight it in your own country.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/Me/Damsite16.jpg

zugfuhrer
07-07-2007, 01:04 AM
The Katyn massacre was denied by the official soviet union.

In 1989, with the collapse of Soviet Power, Gorbachev finally admitted that the Soviet NKVD had executed the Poles, and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn. Stalin's order of March 1940 to execute by shooting some 25,700 Poles, including those found at the three sites, was also disclosed with the collapse of Soviet Power. This particular second world war slaughter of Poles is often referred to as the "Katyn Massacre" or the "Katyn Forest Massacre".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

There where barracks built in 1939-40 at the same camp where the polish officers was held POW, with place for the same number of guests as the entire finnish officer corps. Perhaps they should be lodged there and should meet the same destiny as the polish officers did.

Its odd that USAF who preferred daybombing of Germany because of one among other reasons, to minimize collateral damage, bombed Tokyo the most deadly conventional bombraid so far.

F19_Orheim
07-07-2007, 01:46 AM
Revisionism exists everywhere, also in more "recent years" - truth is always twisted to justify actions.... or as a former CIA director expressed, it is sometimes too easy to "overstretch the facts".

As LillBill said, we have to live with it, but we must also talk about it, identify it - WHEREVER is shows up it's ugly face - especially in our own countries such as Sweden, Finland and other states I dare not to mention, because if I do I will be called anti-********. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif - which I am NOT!


However is it important to say that there is nothing called "original sin" - do not judge a person for what his fore fathers have done.

and again, as LillBill said (clever one) - fight it - [especially] in your own country!

leitmotiv
07-07-2007, 02:09 AM
One has to beware of relativism. Neither Sweden nor Finland had a catalog of crimes. The Japanese crimes against China were some of the worst in the benighted 20th century. The present government exhibits a fantastic indifference to the actions of the vicious Japanese nationalists during WWII who were a disgrace to Japan, and who led Japan to destruction. Now these present day idiotic provocations mimic the actions of the government which led them to war against the U.S.A. in 1941. Are they going to repeat the error of the past and provoke a superior enemy leading to inevitable defeat? One would hope these idiots will be thrown out of office before they have done something irreversible. The crazed ultra-nationalists of Japan represent the
worst in the Japanese character.

Kurfurst__
07-07-2007, 05:09 AM
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone'

neural_dream
07-07-2007, 05:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

carguy_
07-07-2007, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
However is it important to say that there is nothing called "original sin" - do not judge a person for what his fore fathers have done.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ofcourse, but what if that person reflects much of his father`s attitude?

The concept of national guilt is about remembering what nations have done in the recent past.Remembering not to start acting like their fathers or grand fathers.
Apparently most of here posters did not analyze national surveys of loser countries` communities.The attitude is still there,it`s not the same but it is close to this of the `30s.

I cannot do anything about a person that does not want to see the truth.And that they don`t want to is very frightening.

Blutarski2004
07-07-2007, 07:40 AM
Confession ..... Forgiveness ..... Catharsis.

leitmotiv
07-07-2007, 08:19 AM
Reading the article is always a good idea.

boxmike
07-07-2007, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
There is a big difference, though. Finland was caught between a rock and a hard place, as they had already just barely survived an unprovoked war with the Soviet Union. Had things in Western Europe gone a little differently, it is quite possible that you could have seen Finland fighting the Soviet Union as a member of an Anglo-French coalition. In any event, except that they were mutual enemies of the Soviet Union, Finland showed little real enthusiasm for Nazi domestic or military policies. In what was otherwise an ugly war between two equally evil tyrannical regimes, Finland represented the only real bright spot and the closest thing to a "good guy" on the Eastern Front. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dangerous and rocky ground this is, words hard to select correctly, talking about my words http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Totally agreed, Finland had not a chance to stay out. No-one's stamping Finland as nazis, I'm sure of that.
However my first and foremost worry in these talks I'm referring in this country is about the German help during the summer of 1944: Food, anti-tank equipment and definitely Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey's pilots. It is this aid that I'm scared the politicians try to lead the historians to forget.

Funnily, it maybe even that US general Patton's aggressive line against Allied politicians that saved Finland with his eagerness to get to Berlin first; Soviets reacted to that by not supplying the northwest front once it had failed to break the Finnish defenses, instead concentrating to the advance to Berlin once the Finns were 'pacified'.
Personally, I grew up during Cold War, and I'm still impressed what our soldiers did and how didn't we end up under Soviet occupation during Cold War years. I think warmly about a certain bald guy with spectacles who knew how to balance with our 'small' eastern neighbour. He was the president of this small republic for 25 years, all Cold War.

Rgds,

- box

EmKen
07-07-2007, 04:53 PM
There is an awful lot of very interesting things being discussed here -the Winter War between Finland and the USSR was between two nation states that had existed for barely 20 years.
Likewise, at the end of the Second World War the USSR withdrew its troops from involved countries far more readily than the US -the Red Army left Finland, Norway, Austria, Yugoslavia etc. whilst the US kept military bases throughout Western, Central and Southern Europe.
History is a fascinating subject, but has to be approached with an open mind.


emken

Hawgdog
07-07-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm watching a wonderful special on PBS about the railway- the one with the bridge on the river Kwai
Only about 70,000 asian deaths there.... not recorded as the Japanese considered them somewhat less important than the aussies, brits and oxen
The engineer that was alive then (Japanese old dude) was oblivious to the thousands of deaths...
terrible stuff be sure- really intersting interviews with the survivors.

joeap
07-08-2007, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

luftluuver
07-08-2007, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Bearcat99
07-08-2007, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:

Discuss this topic, nicely or yes it will be gone with the dodo bird. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

joeap
07-08-2007, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:

Discuss this topic, nicely or yes it will be gone with the dodo bird. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

zardozid
07-08-2007, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">leitmotiv
The crazed ultra-nationalists of Japan represent the
worst in the Japanese character. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't be a racist.
It's human nature not Japanese character.

joeap
07-08-2007, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zardozid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">leitmotiv
The crazed ultra-nationalists of Japan represent the
worst in the Japanese character. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't be a racist.
It's human nature not Japanese character. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think leimotiv is a racist. Every country has it's shameful characters, each expresses the dark side of human nature in it's own way. Flavoured with soy sauce, ketchup, worcestershire sauce, or sauerkraut, c*** is still c***.

zardozid
07-08-2007, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't think leimotiv is a racist. Every country has it's shameful characters, each expresses the dark side of human nature in it's own way. Flavoured with soy sauce, ketchup, worcestershire sauce, or sauerkraut, c*** is still c***. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


fair enough... leimotiv may not be a racist, but the statement is.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now these present day idiotic provocations mimic the actions of the government which led them to war against the U.S.A. in 1941. Are they going to repeat the error of the past and provoke a superior enemy leading to inevitable defeat? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


This is not very likely to happen. Most of the world doesn't precive Japan as a threat.
If you think Japan today is anything like it was in the 30's you would be surprised.
Japan has one of the most pacifist oriented cultures in the modern world.

horseback
07-08-2007, 07:07 PM
Leitmotiv's statement is hardly racist. It's a clear reference to the Japanese culture, which is several thousands of years old, and hardly pacifist in nature. The last fifty years or so are more probably veneer than bedrock, and there are those in Japan eager to get back to their 'roots.'

"Most of the world" in your mind apparently doesn't include China, Korea, the Phillippines, Indonesia, the Solomons, Southeast Asia, or anyplace else the Imperial Japanese Army or Navy came to spread their own unique brand of 'pacifism'. Most of those lands remember them quite well, and not fondly.

But hey, what do these poor benighted folk know of polically correct thought?

My ex-wife's Chinese parents and grandparents were very clear to me about their own feelings about the Japanese; they respected their economic power and the quality of their goods, but they really didn't like being around them, even the ones who turned out to be culturally American and only racially Japanese.

And yes, I've been to Japan several times. I've had strangers there come up to me out of the blue and help me find my way, but I've also seen Japanese businessmen nearly trample women and children trying to get onto their subway trains. Let's say that there are inconsistancies I had a hard time wrapping my mind around.

cheers

horseback

Targ
07-08-2007, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zardozid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">leitmotiv
The crazed ultra-nationalists of Japan represent the
worst in the Japanese character. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't be a racist.
It's human nature not Japanese character. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Leitmotiv's comment does not strike me as being racist in amy way shape or form.

zardozid
07-08-2007, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Leitmotiv's statement is hardly racist. It's a clear reference to the Japanese culture, which is several thousands of years old, and hardly pacifist in nature. The last fifty years or so are more probably veneer than bedrock, and there are those in Japan eager to get back to their 'roots.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


By roots I suppose you mean the 250 years of peace that proceeded Admiral Perry's forcible opening of Japans ports to the world. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I have a (real) question for you:
Seeing how you have Chinese family, how do they feel about the British? The British where pushing tons of opium on the Chinese people. And during the "opium wars" the British where responsible for many horrible crimes against humanity. Do they think the British want to bring back Empire, and are they as mad at the British?



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Leitmotiv's comment does not strike me as being racist in amy way shape or form. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


to me it is. If I where to say...

"laziness represents the worst in (fill in blank) character."

or

"greed represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"

or

"criminal behavior represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"

or

"In breading represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"


it would be racist. (too me)

leitmotiv
07-08-2007, 07:56 PM
My statement was obviously not racist, nor defamatory to the Japanese as a whole. To borrow from Oscar Wilde, to accuse somebody of being a racist is the last resort of a scoundrel. I do deplore the members of the ultra-nationalist right which dragged a great and civilized nation into utter degradation and ruin in WWII, and, apparently, the modern equivalents of these loons learned nothing from the experience, and seem hell-bent on repeating it. I have defended Japan against bigots for decades. I grew up with Chinese and Japanese kids in a segregated society in California. I deplore what the Japanese did to the Chinese in the war; it was one of the greatest atrocities in world history. To exacerbate it by denying it is revolting. It is not sophisticated to play at mindless cultural relativism and say "everybody does it." Not everybody killed millions. In ten years time the Chinese may wipe Japan off the face of the earth in a war. The Japanese can't do much to prevent their annihilation. Right now the U.S. needs a nationalist and feisty Japan so you won't see the State Department deploring the Japanese government's actions. The Japanese, unfortunately, won't be much more than a road bump in the way of a Chinese juggernaut. Perhaps a way for them to garner sympathy around the world would be to heroically own up to their transgressions. Then they can face off with the Chinese with something like the moral high ground. As it is, the Chinese appear to be doing the world a favor by putting down a mad dog. To continue with this arrogant policy is madness, but the ultra-nationalists have never been known for their reason.

zardozid
07-08-2007, 08:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My statement was obviously not racist, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The fact that you can see nothing wrong with your comment troubles me...



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and, apparently, the modern equivalents of these loons learned nothing from the experience, and seem hell-bent on repeating it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


On a lighter note...
I guess you have discovered Japans hidden Military...the secret is out. Mt Fuji has been hollowed out and they have been training millions of crack troops bent on conquering the world.

leitmotiv
07-08-2007, 08:15 PM
You are playing fatuous games. Later, gator.

zardozid
07-08-2007, 08:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but the ultra-nationalists have never been known for their reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I agree, but they represent the minority view. Abe's party have a low approval rating. Its something like 32%.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You are playing fatuous games. Later, gator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

fair enough...Better to let it die. (thou I wasn't being fatuous,the joke was making a point) you can't be a "mad dog that needs to be put down" if you don't pose a threat.

ake109
07-08-2007, 11:53 PM
I come from a country (ex-British colony) which suffered Imperial Japanese Occupation. For my parent's generation, the brutality of the Imperial Japanese was very real. Maybe you folks living in places like the USA won't feel it, but to many here in Asia (esp. those who were living in 1937-1945), the efforts of present day Japanese Academics/Politicians/Writers etc etc to whitewash issues like Nanking and Comfort Women are at least as repugnant as guys going round saying the Holocaust did not exist and that Hitler was right in his policies to improve Europe.

And no, I don't think Japan poses a military threat to anyone anymore and I don't hate the current generation for the crimes of _some_ of their ancestors but it is shameful that the current government is not owning up to history.

horseback
07-09-2007, 05:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zardozid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Leitmotiv's statement is hardly racist. It's a clear reference to the Japanese culture, which is several thousands of years old, and hardly pacifist in nature. The last fifty years or so are more probably veneer than bedrock, and there are those in Japan eager to get back to their 'roots.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
By roots I suppose you mean the 250 years of peace that proceeded Admiral Perry's forcible opening of Japans ports to the world. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a (real) question for you:
Seeing how you have Chinese family, how do they feel about the British? The British where pushing tons of opium on the Chinese people. And during the "opium wars" the British where responsible for many horrible crimes against humanity. Do they think the British want to bring back Empire, and are they as mad at the British?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Leitmotiv's comment does not strike me as being racist in amy way shape or form. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
to me it is. If I where to say...

"laziness represents the worst in (fill in blank) character."

or

"greed represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"

or

"criminal behavior represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"

or

"In breading represents the worst in (fill in blank) character"


it would be racist. (too me) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess if 'peace' is defined as the absence of war rather than having a brutal feudalistic society where the vast majority of the population were little better than slaves lasting into the mid-19th century, well then, okay. Perry got there just ahead of a number of imperialistic European powers who might not have been so willing to allow the Japanese their sovereignty or self determination.

My former in-laws lived in Hong Kong, where the British hand sheltered rather than oppressed. They are essentially xenophobic, in my opinion, but they respected the British who treated Chinese who flooded into Hong Kong in the late 40s early 50s with something like compassion.

Since they were from the northern interior of China, and were frankly contemptuous of their southern and coastal cousins, I don't think that they cared much about the opium wars.

As for racism, I think that you are a bit off the mark about the meaning of the word. English makes (or at least used to make) clear distinctions about the differences between race and nationality or culture. For Americans especially, race is pretty much an external marker that has nothing to do with an individual's character or worth. At most, it's an indicator of how much sunblock one needs for a day at the beach (or at least that's the ideal).

We don't accept the concept of a French or German 'race', for example; we do recognize that these nationalities/cultures may exhibit certain attitudes or tendencies, though. Language and history have a great deal of influence on how cultures deal with outside influences. Some cultures are more insular than others, some are well equipped for a given climate, a specific time and place in history or a small tribal group in isolation, and some are better suited to preparing their children for life in an open society.

I think it's fair to say that while all humans are created equal, some cultures are better than others.

It's not a matter of race, but a matter of weighing and measuring the contributions and behavior of a given group on the world stage.

cheers

horseback

joeap
07-09-2007, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ake109:
I come from a country (ex-British colony) which suffered Imperial Japanese Occupation. For my parent's generation, the brutality of the Imperial Japanese was very real. Maybe you folks living in places like the USA won't feel it, but to many here in Asia (esp. those who were living in 1937-1945), the efforts of present day Japanese Academics/Politicians/Writers etc etc to whitewash issues like Nanking and Comfort Women are at least as repugnant as guys going round saying the Holocaust did not exist and that Hitler was right in his policies to improve Europe.

And no, I don't think Japan poses a military threat to anyone anymore and I don't hate the current generation for the crimes of _some_ of their ancestors but it is shameful that the current government is not owning up to history. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your input we almost NEVER get an Asian POV here...sadly your voice will probalby get lost among the "western" chatter.

Thanks for your input.

zardozid
07-09-2007, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for racism, I think that you are a bit off the mark about the meaning of the word. English makes (or at least used to make) clear distinctions about the differences between race and nationality or culture. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for replying to my question...

My use of the word racism was based on my assumptions of Leitmotiv's race and why he was making comments on Japanese character.

By stating that the ultra-nationalists represented the worst in Japanese character insinuates that their is something unique to ultra-nationalism and Japanese character. Ultra nationalist are found in every nation on the planet and through out history. If you think that Japanese culture is more vulnerable to ultra-nationalistic thinking then other nations, then you have not learned the lessons of the last world war. The ultra-nationalist came to power through assassination and intimidation, they where not elected. EVEN if you look at resent history you might be surprised to find some contemporary nations that where swept up in hasty nationalistic/military operations.

I apologize for my assumptions to Leitmotiv's character I'm sure he isn't a racist, but I feel he could have found a better way to say what he did. I grew up listening to how war-like (stereo-type) Japanese people where, and I might have made assumptions (sorry)...


p.s. I'm surprised at your experience on the Japanese subway. I have always found Japan a very safe/polite place. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. And they do not take violent behavior lightly. I'm surprised no one stopped this rude person. I have found the trains in Japan much more civil then any in America (no one shouts, panhandles, argues, gets-in-your-face, graffiti, muggings) . Japan is very safe...where else can a 15(younger sometimes) year old girl walk home alone at night in the middle of a city.

PPS I think it might be a little unfair to post your xenophobic in-laws as typical Chinese feelings...

ake109
07-10-2007, 02:35 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zardozid:
p.s. I'm surprised at your experience on the Japanese subway. I have always found Japan a very safe/polite place. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. And they do not take violent behavior lightly. I'm surprised no one stopped this rude person. I have found the trains in Japan much more civil then any in America (no one shouts, panhandles, argues, gets-in-your-face, graffiti, muggings) . Japan is very safe...where else can a 15(younger sometimes) year old girl walk home alone at night in the middle of a city.

QUOTE]


Yes, on the surface, Japan is about the most polite society on earth. But there is more to it then what is on the surface. I don't want to get into this 'whose culture' is superior and start commenting on different cultures and races here so I'd stop at that.

The only point I want to make is that :

Having the current Japanese Govt. saying to the Chinese that there were only 20,000 deaths at Nanking is like having Angela Merkel telling Israel and the world that there were only 1,500 deaths at Auschwitz and 500 of them were caused by careless 8th Air Force bombs while the other 1000 was due to illness and old age despite the 3rd Reich's best medical efforts.

If she _really_ said that, what would be the reaction from a lot of people? In that context, I think the Chinese Govt. and People are being rather tolerant!

WOLFMondo
07-10-2007, 02:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zardozid:

By stating that the ultra-nationalists represented the worst in Japanese character insinuates that their is something unique to ultra-nationalism and Japanese character. Ultra nationalist are found in every nation on the planet and through out history. If you think that Japanese culture is more vulnerable to ultra-nationalistic thinking then other nations, then you have not learned the lessons of the last world war. The ultra-nationalist came to power through assassination and intimidation, they where not elected. EVEN if you look at resent history you might be surprised to find some contemporary nations that where swept up in hasty nationalistic/military operations.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, the Japanese pre war government, before the one formed by Tojo was not ultra nationalist. It had elements of it, as you say, but even members of the army and navy didn't think it was ready for war. No one can deny or excuse the attrocities in Manchuria at the time but Japans view on what was going on in China, with communism, Japan was doing no different to fighting communists in Indochina that went on in the 50's, 60's and 70's by western nations. That said Japan also was grabbing resources which it desperately needed.

I'm not condoning the attrocities or warcriminals but there is more to why and how Japan ended up in a sticky situation that many would like to admit. Many also forget that Japan had a plan 'A' and 'B' which they were to propose to the US in Nov. 1941 but because US decoding and interpretation was poor, Cordell Hull saw the intercepted transmission and then practically ignored the real proposal which could have mean Japan leaving China and averting a Pacific war.

zardozid
07-10-2007, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But there is more to it then what is on the surface </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't think their is a culture on Earth that would stand up to speculation on what "lies beneath" the surface.


Question? (you don't have to answer)...
Are you saying that everything that is peaceful,polite,kind,and helpful in Japan is a deception? Are you saying its all a "put-on" designed to deceive/hide from the world Japans "true intentions"?
If you are its a load of ****.

carguy_
07-10-2007, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zardozid:
Question? (you don't have to answer)...
Are you saying that everything that is peaceful,polite,kind,and helpful in Japan is a deception? Are you saying its all a "put-on" designed to deceive/hide from the world Japans "true intentions"?
If you are its a load of ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sometimes there is more to it than meets the eye.But not noticing that is a way for a living too.

joeap
07-10-2007, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ake109:
The only point I want to make is that :

Having the current Japanese Govt. saying to the Chinese that there were only 20,000 deaths at Nanking is like having Angela Merkel telling Israel and the world that there were only 1,500 deaths at Auschwitz and 500 of them were caused by careless 8th Air Force bombs while the other 1000 was due to illness and old age despite the 3rd Reich's best medical efforts.

If she _really_ said that, what would be the reaction from a lot of people? In that context, I think the Chinese Govt. and People are being rather tolerant! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the main points, not that current Japanese or anyone else are guilty of X Y or Z, just that we all ought to acknowledge WHAT HAPPENED no more, no less. I frankly think Canada too has thigns to own up to, most Canadians don't know slavery was abolished in Canada only 30 years before the US for example.

luftluuver
07-10-2007, 01:29 PM
The first recorded slave purchase occurred in New France in the region known today as Quebec in 1628. The purchase was of a young boy from Madagascar, who was given the name Olivier Le Jeune.

Quebec has to apoligize first. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The Upper Canada Act remained in force until 1833 when the British Parliament's Slavery Abolition Act abolished slavery in all parts of the British Empire. Note, Canada was not an independent country.

The first record of African slavery in Colonial America occurred in 1619. A Dutch ship, its name unrecorded by those present, had captured 20 enslaved Africans in a battle with a Spanish ship bound for the Caribbean.

The Dutch need to apoligize before the Americans. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And, the Africa nations have to apoligize before any other country.

joeap
07-10-2007, 02:30 PM
Not actually talking apologies luftluuver, just being straight about what happened. Good point about Canada not being independent, but still how many Canadians know about that?

sapre
07-16-2007, 02:23 AM
What a joke.
A typical Guardian article without any source and on a moral high horse.
Maybe it might help to present some sources and evidence rather than bringing out the same old "good allies against evil moronic Japanese" trash.
And the fact that the article conviniently ignores that the vast majority of civilian casualty was caused by allied bombing makes it even more laughable.
There was no "order of military" regarding the suicides.
All of this occurred after the command structure of the military collapsed and it was done independently by some of the panicked and fanatical unit leaders.
I guess this is how people gets brainwashed into believing total nonsense like 300000 dead of Nanking or forced sex slave.
But of course, I will be called a facist, far-right, militarist, revisionist piece of human trach for even daring questioning one-sided biased western view of history(especially WW2).

Blutarski2004
07-16-2007, 08:37 AM
I personally find the culture and history of Japan endlessly fascinating. From what I have been able to grasp, the ugly behavior of the Japanese armed forces in WW2 was unquestionably a product of intensive propaganda and indoctrination, made easier perhaps by traditional Japanese cultural orientation to the group and to heirarchy.

How else does one explain the fact that only 30-odd years previously, during the Russo-Japanese War, Russian prisoners received, by western standards, absolutely first-class treatment from their Japanese captors. This is confirmed even in Russian literature of the period. The same highly solicitous treatment of German prisoners occurred after the Japanese capture of Tsingtao in 1914.

Japan is, to be sure, not simply zen, cherry blossoms, and Hokusai wood-cuts. It has had a very strong warrior tradition throughout its existence - one that lives on today in less obvious guise. It is culturally xenophobic. It is racially "sensitive", to put it politely. But I find nothing to suggest that it is intrinsically different or more susceptible to excess than any other culture on earth.


That's my take on it .....

Blutarski2004
07-16-2007, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sapre:
What a joke.
A typical Guardian article without any source and on a moral high horse.
Maybe it might help to present some sources and evidence rather than bringing out the same old "good allies against evil moronic Japanese" trash.
&lt;snip&gt;
I guess this is how people gets brainwashed into believing total nonsense like 300000 dead of Nanking or forced sex slave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



.....Hmmmmm. What do you make of this?


http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/978023112/9780231120326.HTM


COMFORT WOMEN: Sexual Slavery in the Japanese Military During World War II

Yoshimi Yoshiaki, Translated by Suzanne O'Brien

"Crucial reading."
"”Katha Pollitt, The Nation

"Yoshimi, a reputable historian/scholar . . . has meticulously sleuthed out chronological data, exposing from its bitter outset that sordid, endless business of sexual slavery. Yoshimi's account extends to the essence of feminist political purpose . . . The book makes solid headway toward legitimizing his demands for public access to still-secret documents; acknowledging and apologizing for all violations of international law and war crimes and for failure to punish guilty parties; rehabilitating and compensating victims . . . A vigorous work, enhanced by a precise, graceful translation."
"”Choice

"Comfort Women's command of documentary materials makes it a landmark for historians, human rights activists and general readers."
"”Georgette Fleischer, Los Angeles Times Book Review

"As a piece of historical literature,Comfort Women is interesting as an in-depth look at the politics and psychology of a particular time, as much as it is a chronology of what happened to the comfort women and why they were forgotten. One of the most interesting things about it, however, is its unique place in history as the virtual smoking gun that supplied the damning evidence the world needed to hear in order to fully understand and come to grips with this issue....A convincing writer and powerful advocate, Yoshimi has shown by words and actions his willingness to campaign not only as an intellectual who loves the truth, but as a person of tough moral fiber who will stand up for human rights, even as a majority of one."
"”Martha Vickery, Korean Quarterly

"Yoshiaki's invaluable study explodes the claims of Japanese right-wing nationalists that comfort women were merely wartime prostitutes . . . Citing official military records and correspondence, he proves beyond doubt that the victims of this monstrous system were actually sex slaves subjected to repetitive rape and violence . . . [this book] belongs in most libraries."
"”Library Journal (starred review)

"it is necessary and compelling reading...invaluable addition...fascinating"
"”Wendy Anderson, Asian Studies Review

"A compelling investigation of women and war, sexual violence, military organization, notions of maleness, ideas of Japaneseness, and concepts of reparations and civil rights."
"”Victoria de Grazia, Columbia University

"An incisive and important book by a leading researcher on this extremely controversial topic."
"”John Dower, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, author of Pulitzer Prize-winning Embracing Defeat


Available for the first time in English, this is the definitive account of the practice of sexual slavery the Japanese military perpetrated during World War II by the researcher principally responsible for exposing the Japanese government's responsibility for these atrocities. The large scale imprisonment and rape of thousands of women, who were euphemistically called "comfort women" by the Japanese military, first seized public attention in 1991 when three Korean women filed suit in a Toyko District Court stating that they had been forced into sexual servitude and demanding compensation. Since then the comfort stations and their significance have been the subject of ongoing debate and intense activism in Japan, much if it inspired by Yoshimi's investigations. How large a role did the military, and by extension the government, play in setting up and administering these camps? What type of compensation, if any, are the victimized women due? These issues figure prominently in the current Japanese focus on public memory and arguments about the teaching and writing of history and are central to efforts to transform Japanese ways of remembering the war.

Yoshimi Yoshiaki provides a wealth of documentation and testimony to prove the existence of some 2,000 centers where as many as 200,000 Korean, Filipina, Taiwanese, Indonesian, Burmese, Dutch, Australian, and some Japanese women were restrained for months and forced to engage in sexual activity with Japanese military personnel. Many of the women were teenagers, some as young as fourteen. To date, the Japanese government has neither admitted responsibility for creating the comfort station system nor given compensation directly to former comfort women.

This English edition updates the Japanese edition originally published in 1995 and includes introductions by both the author and the translator placing the story in context for American readers.

Contents

Translator's Introduction
Author's Introduction to the English Edition
The Emergence of the Issue
1. The Course and Conditions of the Establishment of the Military Comfort Station System: From the First Shanghai Incident to the Start of All-Out War in China
2. Expansion Into Southeast Asia and the Pacific: The Period of the Asia Pacific War
3. How Were the Women Rounded Up? Comfort Women's Testimonies and Soldiers' Recollections
4. The Lives Comfort Women Were Forced to Lead
5. Violations of International Law and War Crime Trials
6. Conditions After the Defeat
Conclusion
Epilogue
Notes
Bibliography
Index

About the Author

Yoshimi Yoshiaki is professor of modern Japanese history at Chuo University in Tokyo, and a founding member of the Center for Research and Documentation on Japan's War Responsibility

But of course, I will be called a facist, far-right, militarist, revisionist piece of human trach for even daring questioning one-sided biased western view of history(especially WW2).

WOLFMondo
07-16-2007, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
I personally find the culture and history of Japan endlessly fascinating. From what I have been able to grasp, the ugly behavior of the Japanese armed forces in WW2 was unquestionably a product of intensive propaganda and indoctrination, made easier perhaps by traditional Japanese cultural orientation to the group and to heirarchy.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm similar and find Japanese recent history very interesting, some of what you read about the Japanese in the 30's and 40's can contradict itself 100%.

Have you read Rising Sun by John Tolland? Part of the book, when it goes over the personal and official records of Bataan (Japanse, US and Filipino), explores the reasons for the brutality and the complete inconsistency of how they treated prisoners and why.

joeap
07-16-2007, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sapre:
What a joke.
A typical Guardian article without any source and on a moral high horse.
Maybe it might help to present some sources and evidence rather than bringing out the same old "good allies against evil moronic Japanese" trash.
And the fact that the article conviniently ignores that the vast majority of civilian casualty was caused by allied bombing makes it even more laughable.
There was no "order of military" regarding the suicides.
All of this occurred after the command structure of the military collapsed and it was done independently by some of the panicked and fanatical unit leaders.
I guess this is how people gets brainwashed into believing total nonsense like 300000 dead of Nanking or forced sex slave.
But of course, I will be called a facist, far-right, militarist, revisionist piece of human trach for even daring questioning one-sided biased western view of history(especially WW2). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummmm no I won't call you names, but will disagree with you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I already posted figures proving most civilian casualties were suffered in Allied countries, if you have sources to disprove that or the Rape of Nanking please post them. What do you know about Unit 731 btw?

Blutarski2004
07-16-2007, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I'm similar and find Japanese recent history very interesting, some of what you read about the Japanese in the 30's and 40's can contradict itself 100%.

Have you read Rising Sun by John Tolland? Part of the book, when it goes over the personal and official records of Bataan (Japanse, US and Filipino), explores the reasons for the brutality and the complete inconsistency of how they treated prisoners and why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... I must admit that I have not read Tolland, although I have read extensively on the Pacific war. As regards the general history of Japan, I have read Sansom's "A History of Japan" (3 vols) a work which highly impressed me. Beyond that, I've got various works byTurnbull (who hs become rather repititive of late) on Samurai and the mediaeval Japanese "Age of Wars".

Also been a longtime Toshiro Mifune / Akira Kurosawa film fan (no surprise there, I suppose).