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View Full Version : L.T.L. patrol guards ? Chopper and or Satellite observation ?



Knot3D
09-23-2008, 08:26 PM
Since Sam will be a wanted man I can't help but wonder about a couple of aspects which would logically make sense in a realworld fugitive situation.

#1, Will SC C's patrol guards employ Less Than Lethal arms, such as tazer guns or even sticky shockers ? I cannot imagine the whole game
will feature guards who can't counter in any other way than brawling it out, because that would be anything but realistic. Gameplay-wise,
L.T.L. would mean you'd think twice before going no-holds-bourne on guards.

#2, Will SC C feature helicopter and or satellite observation ? If a man is wanted, they want him badly. All means on full alert to pinpoint this guy. Enemy of the State anyone ? If these aspects are in the game, how is Sam going to counter them, gameplay-wise ?

Both points would add some nice tactical layers to the otherwise twitch-based SC C gameplay.

Your thoughts...?

Knot3D
09-23-2008, 08:26 PM
Since Sam will be a wanted man I can't help but wonder about a couple of aspects which would logically make sense in a realworld fugitive situation.

#1, Will SC C's patrol guards employ Less Than Lethal arms, such as tazer guns or even sticky shockers ? I cannot imagine the whole game
will feature guards who can't counter in any other way than brawling it out, because that would be anything but realistic. Gameplay-wise,
L.T.L. would mean you'd think twice before going no-holds-bourne on guards.

#2, Will SC C feature helicopter and or satellite observation ? If a man is wanted, they want him badly. All means on full alert to pinpoint this guy. Enemy of the State anyone ? If these aspects are in the game, how is Sam going to counter them, gameplay-wise ?

Both points would add some nice tactical layers to the otherwise twitch-based SC C gameplay.

Your thoughts...?

wallz0r
09-23-2008, 11:47 PM
I think patrol guards with tazers are a must,otherwise this game will turn in a beat'em up(if it isn't one already).Also,this would force the player to be stealthy IMO.Also,I think that patrol guards should have batons (http://www.southernpoliceequipment.com/media/pr_24_baton.jpg) too that they can actually use against the player.
Helicopter and or satellite observation would be cool IMO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif and it could work out if,for example,you attract TOO MUCH attention(you beat up too many guards and blow too many hot dog stands for example).

Knot3D
09-27-2008, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wallz0r:
I think patrol guards with tazers are a must,otherwise this game will turn in a beat'em up(if it isn't one already).Also,this would force the player to be stealthy IMO.Also,I think that patrol guards should have batons (http://www.southernpoliceequipment.com/media/pr_24_baton.jpg) too that they can actually use against the player.
Helicopter and or satellite observation would be cool IMO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif and it could work out if,for example,you attract TOO MUCH attention(you beat up too many guards and blow too many hot dog stands for example). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rewatched some PAX gameplay demonstration videos, and there are definitely helicopters flying around at the point where Sam walks across the Washington memorial statue park.

It was odd indeed, to see such well equiped guards - whose outfit/gear, ironically, look a lot like what Sam has in SC DA, even up to the little radio with LCD screen on their backs - So, I saw the guards wear utility belts with some kind of white rope and alot of pouches, yet they didn't use any of their equipment.

SC PT's alert response system would work in SC C imo ; The guards fight with bare fists first, if that doesn't work they should begin using their batons and if that doesn't work they should resort to tazers to stun & immobilize Sam.....Or they could instantly use tazers if you choose to play the game on hard or they should be able to draw their pistol and say "Freeze !"

Which makes me wonder ; if the guards carry tazers, would Sam 'be able' to pick 'em up and use them until the batteries run dead ? Would he be able to get hold of a police radio to eaves drop - but would police be able to track him if he's carrying the radio ? Imo, these are potentially interesting questions.

On the other hand - If Sam lures a guard out of public sights, I personally think he should still be able to walk around the other side and then sneak up on that particular guard, silently crouch walking the same way as in previous SC's, yes including the 'closer-than-ever' animation.

ZeroNG000
09-27-2008, 09:42 PM
That would actually be pretty cool...Although, I would think that PT's system would work like, they'd use tazer's in the beginning, and then get up to lethal force. If they want him really bad, none of the guards would have been fighting with fists. Although I bet they just had the guards do that so they can show off the combat system they've coded in. I doubt it'll be like that in the final version.

Knot3D
09-27-2008, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZeroNG000:
If they want him really bad, none of the guards would have been fighting with fists. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly, that's what I meant ; it kinda looked silly in the demo's. To balance initial gameplay, the start of the fugitive experience will probably have guards using their fists/batons first.

I also noted that the guards handled Sam one by one. Here's hoping the final game will have multiple guards battling Sam at once. Afaik,
real life police use team work, not solo fist fights.

ZeroNG000
09-27-2008, 09:52 PM
Real policemen use pistols and batons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And yeah, the solo fights...not very smart on their end. It'll most likely be fixed in the final version. Still though, I used to hate it in the first games, when I did something stupid and got caught, I couldn't get out my gun fast enough or, (in the first two games,) all I'd have is my elbow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I'll look forward to actually being able to defend myself...

RowdySpy1990
10-11-2008, 12:58 PM
Chances are that most of the guards don't know that Sam is a 'Most Wanted' suspect. The guards in the video were more like security guards. They just saw a man who stole a computer, that doesn't mean that they're going to pull a gun on him. They won't know Sam is a most wanted until they reviece info.
Take the bourne series for example. I don't know which movie it's in, but when Jason is captured and brought into an interregation room, the guards don't even know who they're dealing with until Pamela calls them to inform them.

wallz0r
10-11-2008, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On the other hand - If Sam lures a guard out of public sights, I personally think he should still be able to walk around the other side and then sneak up on that particular guard, silently crouch walking the same way as in previous SC's, yes including the 'closer-than-ever' animation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif if that's in the final build I'll give it a try.Even if L&S gameplay won't be present in the game,at least the sneaking like in the old games should be left,especially the "closer-than-ever" which is über cool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

osborne10
10-11-2008, 03:23 PM
hopefully they do add guards with tazers hand guns etc.i guess their will be like an suspicion level kinda like the light meter in the previous games,but not like a actual meter lol,but like u as sam just reading their body,like a hand on their gun stuff like that.hitman blood money did a decent job at that.hopefully they will make it better and more realistic.but that would be silly if they keep running at him one at a time like a bruce lee movie.hopefully they add some gun disarming moves and etc.plus the guards aren't going to pull their guns out in extremely crowded area.yeah i agree with u knot.i think i actually made a thread or a comment about this along time ago,so hopefully they do somthin about it

Coldfreon
10-12-2008, 07:50 PM
There was a suspicion meter in the demo video. Notice that when Sam called the cop's attention, the meter on the left turned from green, to yellow, to red.

I love the idea of tazers and batons. It should have been right from the start in the demo video: cops never face possibly armed suspects with bare fists! Although I was wondering, how would you do the difference between "non-lethal" and "lethal" weapons? What happens if Sam's knocked out by non-lethal ones?

Knot3D
10-12-2008, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldfreon:
I love the idea of tazers and batons. It should have been right from the start in the demo video: cops never face possibly armed suspects with bare fists! Although I was wondering, how would you do the difference between "non-lethal" and "lethal" weapons? What happens if Sam's knocked out by non-lethal ones? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember CT's Kokubo Sosho ; If you got careless, they'd sticky shock Sam ; interrogation sequence would follow.

Tazer's require a cop to be at close range ; which would mean, Sam has a slight chance of disarming that cop before the tazer can drop that electric charge into his nerve system.

I'm guessing Ubi will be reluctant to have the cops shooting lethal ammo at Sam, even if that is not realistic in such a fugitive situation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

For the game it's own good, they had better have the cops doing in Sam, by means of batons teamwork, not the lame 1 on 1 fist fights.

Coldfreon
10-12-2008, 08:34 PM
Hmmm. But that would mean an interrogation sequence everytime you fall from a non-lethal. How about non-lethal heals gradually and lethal weapons require a medkit?

On 1 on 1 fights, they should have learned this already from AC. Since it starts out with fists/batons, why not use the POP series' combat AI? Freakin' sand monsters tended to crowd me everytime I got cornered.

Knot3D
10-12-2008, 08:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldfreon:
Hmmm. But that would mean an interrogation sequence everytime you fall from a non-lethal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I didn't say it would have to result into an interrogation sequence in Conviction.

What the replacement result would be ? Only Ubi knows....

Personally, I would prefer to see a Game Over, then prompting the player to start over from last save or checkpoint. Being hit by a tazer should realistically have Sam incapacitated. Any other result would be lame.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldfreon:
How about non-lethal heals gradually and lethal weapons require a medkit?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Being hit by baton strikes should influence Sam's fighting capability & efficiency. A gameplay mechanic similar to the Psyche Gauge/Stress Meter/Stamina Gauge in MGS4 would imo do nice in Conviction ; The more Sam gets hit, the bigger the chance the cops will actually get hold of him.

Coldfreon
10-12-2008, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Knot3D:
[Being hit by baton strikes should influence Sam's fighting capability & efficiency. A gameplay mechanic similar to the Psyche Gauge/Stress Meter/Stamina Gauge in MGS4 would imo do nice in Conviction ; The more Sam gets hit, the bigger the chance the cops will actually get hold of him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. That should let the players get into a few fist fights but not too much, and still be afraid of gunfire.

Man, the info is so scarce, we could almost develop make our own SC Conviction in our free time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RowdySpy1990
10-13-2008, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Knot3D:
Personally, I would prefer to see a Game Over, then prompting the player to start over from last save or checkpoint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But this would take gamming a step backwards, taking free play away. Just as you hated restarting a level after you raised three alarms in the first splinter cell. They did a nice job fixing this in chaos theory by adding special ops and making the game harder.

If sam were knocked out by a guard, i would like to see him regain conciousness in the back of either a police car, or swat car, with him cuffed up. He could then use his lock picking skills and then incompacitate the other guards and get away, becoming a higher, more wanted fugitive.

scworld
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just as you hated restarting a level after you raised three alarms in the first splinter cell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never raised one. And if I did, it meant I failed as a Special Agent, which means quickload.

CoastalGirl
10-13-2008, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scworld:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just as you hated restarting a level after you raised three alarms in the first splinter cell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never raised one. And if I did, it meant I failed as a Special Agent, which means quickload. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ditto. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just went through Jerusalem again (after finally ghosting through the Presidential Palace [everywhere but the little library section, of course] - woohoo!), and I actually love the mission failed deal. It's as if the game is saying "I'm a stealth game! Be stealthy or don't friggin' play me!". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Knot3D
10-13-2008, 08:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RowdySpy1990:

But this would take gamming a step backwards, taking free play away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You mean, it would take away the " I can out-smart/wit/Bourne/Bluff my way out of any repercussion the game throws at me gameplay

..Or wait wait... you wanna bring it all down to the courthouse where he will outwit and escape in front of the judge & jury's own eyes. Right !

Dude, seriously. The gameplay has to draw a line somewhere. Once you are caught & apprehended, you are really caught & apprehended.
It's up to Ubi to create balanced gameplay before you get into a caught situation.

soron
10-13-2008, 08:23 PM
I think the game should leave that up to you if you want to keep playing after you set off the alarms but it should really make it difficult to continue. Like throw a few swat teams in there to flush you out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But if they Tazor you then yeah Game Over.

RowdySpy1990
10-14-2008, 04:07 PM
I was never implying that you should raise three alarms and play the game rambo style. It should give the player a chance to learn from his/her mistake in order to become stealthier. Besides, I find it less fun to restart from a quick save every time you make a mistake. If you accidently raise an alarm, work around it to compensate. It gives the game more of a 'real' feeling to it.

Knot3D
10-14-2008, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RowdySpy1990:
I was never implying that you should raise three alarms and play the game rambo style. It should give the player a chance to learn from his/her mistake in order to become stealthier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RowdySpy1990:
If you accidently raise an alarm, work around it to compensate. It gives the game more of a 'real' feeling to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Either way, Ubi will have to find a way to balance fun open ended stealthy gameplay with realistic credibility.

"Movie realism" ( hint ; Bourne and such ) , imo doesn't always mesh well with gameplay design.