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Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Where to start? Well, this is a thread about Brotherhood. Now, don't get me wrong, I loved Brotherhood, it is a very good game and it is worth buying for anyone who is considering it.
However, I didn't feel like a true Assassin's Creed game, and I will explain why.

First, does anyone actually remember the tenants of the assassin's creed?
1. Never stain your blade with the blood of an innocent.

2. Be one with your surroundings, become a blade in the crowd.

3. Never compromise the brotherhood.

I am stressing #2 right now. What is Assassin's Creed about? Assassinating targets, more pitcularly, stealth. You are an Assassin, not a mercenary. In Brotherhood, you barely assassinated any targets. By the way, the templar agent missions don't count, those were like mini assassination contracts. Let's see, who can I remember... oh yeah! Juan Borgia, and Michiletto. 'The Banker' was the only person you truly had to assassinate, in otherwords, you had to make a plan, and think what you were going to do. There were a couple ways to do it. You could assassinate Michiletto, but it was very scripted. There's nothing wrong with something being scripted, but when everything is, a game kind of loses its appeal, especially an open-world game.

I want Ubisoft to advocate stealth more. When I say that, I don't mean make guards super-bosses. As you some of you might have read, I do think combat should be made harder than ACB, but it shouldn't become something that casual gamers will dislike. An average amount of guards is usually 3-6, usually containing one or two more elite guards. Here's how combat should work: A novice player will have some difficulty fighting an average group of guards. He will have a hard time performing counter-kills and starting kill-chains successfully, he will lose some or even a good-amount of his health dealing with the guards. He would lose around maybe 1/4 of his health and take about 40 seconds to kill all the guards. A skilled player would kill the guards quickly, maybe within 25 seconds, and lose minimal health. The Double counter thread basically explains how combat should work and how that would be possible. Games are meant to reward players and make them want to get better, not turn them off. You can reward stealth with things like acheivements, 100% sync, more money, maybe special items if you complete a certain sequence stealthily. Another thing that they could do is easier escape routes. I will give you an example. Go back to AC1 when you had to assassinate William of Monferat in Acre. Let's say that the fortress gate was always open and you didn't have to maneuver over the walls. The fortress would be a restricted area. If you were spotted, there would be a cut-scene where a guard would alert the William that you were in the castle. William would then order that the gate be shut, and the position he was in would change. He would be surrounded by more guards, and you would become notorious. Where, if you did it stealthily without being detected, none of what I just said would have happened. Once you killed him, no one could give the order to shut the gate or pass the word on quick enough to alert ALL of the guards. Your escape and getting to your target would be much easier.

That was the problem with Brotherhood, it was way too scripted, there weren't nearly as many assassination sequences, and it was shorter than AC2. I understand that they tried to fill it with side missions. But side missions are boring for the most part. They usually feel repetetive. The only side missions I enjoyed were the Cristina memory side missions. Do you know why? Because they had a storyline! Each time you completed one, you wanted to come back to it. That is what they need to do, if most of the sidemissions have mini-storylines and leave you with questions, you will want to play them again. The whole "Follow this guy, then kill his boss" gets VERY boring. The majority of most of the sequences were very scripted too. Let me tell you something. It is proven that people with jobs that allow them to be creative are alot happier than say a factory worker. Knowing that, it is safe to say that people will have more fun in a video-game if they can be creative, it also adds replay valure. I mean, what is the point of sneaking into a fortress without being spotted if I am going to be fighting a Templar backed by 100 men anyways?

That brings me to my next two points. They need to reward stealth more. Whether it be through acheivements, armor and weapon upgrades, extra money, 100% completion, or easier escape sequences. And second, you shouldn't be able to kill an army. Go play brotherhood and try this: Go up to any group of gaurds, provoke them, and let them kill you. It literally takes two minutes for you to finally get killed by the gaurds. I have a solution, you can't regenerate your final healthsquare in combat, you must exit combat. This way, flight will sometimes actually be more rational than fight. Do you think Ezio could really take on 50 Papal gaurds?

I saw some people complaining about the gadgets(throwing knives, etc) and they brought up a very good point. In ACB, that gadgets were not balanced. Throwing knives were very weak, really had no advantage to the gun other than being more prevalent in the game. The problem I had was that you had to hold down X to use them, where in the first AC1 you could just tap it. That's one thing they need to bring back, and make holding X only for killing multiple guards. Next is the hidden gun. You can use that ear-splitting, contradictary-for-an-assassin-to-use mehcanism, and no one will even hear you. I remember in sequence 4 when you had to sneak into the Castel Sant'Angelo to rescue Caterina Sforza. The first place I got into there were 3 guards, all in the same area. I used the hidden gun to kill all of them, and when I killed the first guard, none of them even noticed. I think if you use the hidden gun while incognito, a red-circled area will appear wherever you shot the gun on the mini-map and for 30-60sec any nearby guards will frequently investigate that area. It will count as a restricted area and if you are inside it you are considered notorious. However, you're notoriety won't become like that, you will just be notorious within that red area until it disappears. I think this is the most realistic approach for using the hidden gun.

So, here's the conclusion to improve the quality of Revelations.

Notification:So I've decided to turn this thread into a compilation. Any new ideas that I like in the comments I will add to the list. Eventually I will document the date for when I add something to the list in the title

-Advocate stealthy gameplay more. I'm not saying make it Splinter Cell, just add more stealthy missions.
-Bring back a large variety of un-scripted assassination sequences.
-Some scripted assassination sequences are okay and sometimes even cool, but players prefer unscripted assassination sequences.
-Disable health regeneration that prevents desynchronization while in combat.
-Never try to make two missions the same, even if they are something simple like looting someone, or retrieving an artifact.
-Make sidemissions a little more interesting by adding mini-storylines to atleast 60-75% of them.
-Try to expand on the Eagle Sense idea.
-Create assassination sequences that have various ways to kill your target, adding replay value.
-Missions to obtain information are great. They made the story alot more exciting. However, bringing back an occasional mission invovling obtaining information the way you did in AC1 would be great.
-New assassination techniques/animations
-Expand the notoriety idea: Try to make the entire social pyramid interact more with your notoriety level, not just guards. Maybe with Eagle sense?
-Double Counter idea and thread -http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2451059829/p/4
-Tweak and balance the gadgets.
-Expand how shops work by adding Black Markets -http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4251081919/p/24

I can't guarantee that Ubisoft will take all of these ideas, but I bet you they will agree with/like atleast some of them.

Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Where to start? Well, this is a thread about Brotherhood. Now, don't get me wrong, I loved Brotherhood, it is a very good game and it is worth buying for anyone who is considering it.
However, I didn't feel like a true Assassin's Creed game, and I will explain why.

First, does anyone actually remember the tenants of the assassin's creed?
1. Never stain your blade with the blood of an innocent.

2. Be one with your surroundings, become a blade in the crowd.

3. Never compromise the brotherhood.

I am stressing #2 right now. What is Assassin's Creed about? Assassinating targets, more pitcularly, stealth. You are an Assassin, not a mercenary. In Brotherhood, you barely assassinated any targets. By the way, the templar agent missions don't count, those were like mini assassination contracts. Let's see, who can I remember... oh yeah! Juan Borgia, and Michiletto. 'The Banker' was the only person you truly had to assassinate, in otherwords, you had to make a plan, and think what you were going to do. There were a couple ways to do it. You could assassinate Michiletto, but it was very scripted. There's nothing wrong with something being scripted, but when everything is, a game kind of loses its appeal, especially an open-world game.

I want Ubisoft to advocate stealth more. When I say that, I don't mean make guards super-bosses. As you some of you might have read, I do think combat should be made harder than ACB, but it shouldn't become something that casual gamers will dislike. An average amount of guards is usually 3-6, usually containing one or two more elite guards. Here's how combat should work: A novice player will have some difficulty fighting an average group of guards. He will have a hard time performing counter-kills and starting kill-chains successfully, he will lose some or even a good-amount of his health dealing with the guards. He would lose around maybe 1/4 of his health and take about 40 seconds to kill all the guards. A skilled player would kill the guards quickly, maybe within 25 seconds, and lose minimal health. The Double counter thread basically explains how combat should work and how that would be possible. Games are meant to reward players and make them want to get better, not turn them off. You can reward stealth with things like acheivements, 100% sync, more money, maybe special items if you complete a certain sequence stealthily. Another thing that they could do is easier escape routes. I will give you an example. Go back to AC1 when you had to assassinate William of Monferat in Acre. Let's say that the fortress gate was always open and you didn't have to maneuver over the walls. The fortress would be a restricted area. If you were spotted, there would be a cut-scene where a guard would alert the William that you were in the castle. William would then order that the gate be shut, and the position he was in would change. He would be surrounded by more guards, and you would become notorious. Where, if you did it stealthily without being detected, none of what I just said would have happened. Once you killed him, no one could give the order to shut the gate or pass the word on quick enough to alert ALL of the guards. Your escape and getting to your target would be much easier.

That was the problem with Brotherhood, it was way too scripted, there weren't nearly as many assassination sequences, and it was shorter than AC2. I understand that they tried to fill it with side missions. But side missions are boring for the most part. They usually feel repetetive. The only side missions I enjoyed were the Cristina memory side missions. Do you know why? Because they had a storyline! Each time you completed one, you wanted to come back to it. That is what they need to do, if most of the sidemissions have mini-storylines and leave you with questions, you will want to play them again. The whole "Follow this guy, then kill his boss" gets VERY boring. The majority of most of the sequences were very scripted too. Let me tell you something. It is proven that people with jobs that allow them to be creative are alot happier than say a factory worker. Knowing that, it is safe to say that people will have more fun in a video-game if they can be creative, it also adds replay valure. I mean, what is the point of sneaking into a fortress without being spotted if I am going to be fighting a Templar backed by 100 men anyways?

That brings me to my next two points. They need to reward stealth more. Whether it be through acheivements, armor and weapon upgrades, extra money, 100% completion, or easier escape sequences. And second, you shouldn't be able to kill an army. Go play brotherhood and try this: Go up to any group of gaurds, provoke them, and let them kill you. It literally takes two minutes for you to finally get killed by the gaurds. I have a solution, you can't regenerate your final healthsquare in combat, you must exit combat. This way, flight will sometimes actually be more rational than fight. Do you think Ezio could really take on 50 Papal gaurds?

I saw some people complaining about the gadgets(throwing knives, etc) and they brought up a very good point. In ACB, that gadgets were not balanced. Throwing knives were very weak, really had no advantage to the gun other than being more prevalent in the game. The problem I had was that you had to hold down X to use them, where in the first AC1 you could just tap it. That's one thing they need to bring back, and make holding X only for killing multiple guards. Next is the hidden gun. You can use that ear-splitting, contradictary-for-an-assassin-to-use mehcanism, and no one will even hear you. I remember in sequence 4 when you had to sneak into the Castel Sant'Angelo to rescue Caterina Sforza. The first place I got into there were 3 guards, all in the same area. I used the hidden gun to kill all of them, and when I killed the first guard, none of them even noticed. I think if you use the hidden gun while incognito, a red-circled area will appear wherever you shot the gun on the mini-map and for 30-60sec any nearby guards will frequently investigate that area. It will count as a restricted area and if you are inside it you are considered notorious. However, you're notoriety won't become like that, you will just be notorious within that red area until it disappears. I think this is the most realistic approach for using the hidden gun.

So, here's the conclusion to improve the quality of Revelations.

Notification:So I've decided to turn this thread into a compilation. Any new ideas that I like in the comments I will add to the list. Eventually I will document the date for when I add something to the list in the title

-Advocate stealthy gameplay more. I'm not saying make it Splinter Cell, just add more stealthy missions.
-Bring back a large variety of un-scripted assassination sequences.
-Some scripted assassination sequences are okay and sometimes even cool, but players prefer unscripted assassination sequences.
-Disable health regeneration that prevents desynchronization while in combat.
-Never try to make two missions the same, even if they are something simple like looting someone, or retrieving an artifact.
-Make sidemissions a little more interesting by adding mini-storylines to atleast 60-75% of them.
-Try to expand on the Eagle Sense idea.
-Create assassination sequences that have various ways to kill your target, adding replay value.
-Missions to obtain information are great. They made the story alot more exciting. However, bringing back an occasional mission invovling obtaining information the way you did in AC1 would be great.
-New assassination techniques/animations
-Expand the notoriety idea: Try to make the entire social pyramid interact more with your notoriety level, not just guards. Maybe with Eagle sense?
-Double Counter idea and thread -http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2451059829/p/4
-Tweak and balance the gadgets.
-Expand how shops work by adding Black Markets -http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4251081919/p/24

I can't guarantee that Ubisoft will take all of these ideas, but I bet you they will agree with/like atleast some of them.

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 02:16 PM
I agree with the above. It is incredibly important to reward the player for being stealthy, particularly with not having to fight as many people (or any people) after killing the target.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 03:05 PM
ConnivingEagle do you real think that ubisoft will read any of our threads? they want a game where everyone is able to do anything while i want a game where only skilled ppl are able to do the more effective things (fight for exemple is more effective than stealthy if you have skill at Ac1 but at Ac2 it's the same thing have or not skill, it will always be more effective)...

I won't stop spamming every thread about the game and suggestions on the features part but i really have no faith in ubisoft to make the game perfect... Another unique franchise with potential sent to the river of money making.

Chamboozer
06-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Of course Ubisoft will read these threads, although most suggestions will only have minor effects if any on the game. It's unreasonable to expect any one commentator to be able to influence them a great deal.

Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 03:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
ConnivingEagle do you real think that ubisoft will read any of our threads? they want a game where everyone is able to do anything while i want a game where only skilled ppl are able to do the more effective things (fight for exemple is more effective than stealthy if you have skill at Ac1 but at Ac2 it's the same thing have or not skill, it will always be more effective)...

I won't stop spamming every thread about the game and suggestions on the features part but i really have no faith in ubisoft to make the game perfect... Another unique franchise with potential sent to the river of money making. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I am pretty sure that you and I are in a losing battle; but, I don't care. I can't give up, Assassin's Creed is my favorite franchise. But most of the things I suggest are in hopes that the game will become more fun. I don't know...

BingChandler
06-10-2011, 03:24 PM
Glad someone else feels the same. Longtime huge fan of Assassin's Creed, and even I must admit that the Michael Bay feel of the latest Revelations gameplay turned me off. You're a renaissance-era assassin, not a demigod. And what of the people the brotherhood is to serve? When I saw Ezio demolish an entire lighthouse followed by the sinking of half the ships in Constantinople just to serve his own purposes, I felt like he was betraying the zeitgeist of the creed.

Please, please, please Ubisoft keep AC what it's always been about- a terrific storyline and fantastic parkour gameplay. Don't ruin AC at the altar of Modern Warfare release cycles and big, unrealistic battles. I know that this is now your flagship series, but please don't lose track of what AC has always been about. Ezio, Altair, etc. are assassins, not superheroes. Stealth should be the order of the day, not wanton massacres and explosions. Really, the only blood that should be spilled should be that of your target. I mean honestly, it is getting out of hand when Brotherhood basically forces you to just flat out kill everyone. What’s Ezio’s body count by now, thousands?

To that end, I do hope Ubisoft gives some thought to including a difficulty selection in ACR. I know that might seem like blasphemy for an AC game, but if you could have a "hardcore" mode where a single sword-strike would desync you , unnecessary killing (even guards) would force a restart, and you couldn’t survive falling 50 feet onto pavement (I’m looking at you, Brotherhood), then I would be truly happy. The full-sync requirements in Brotherhood were a welcome step in this direction, although many were too gimmicky to be particularly challenging. But think of a mode where you had to be stealthy, or you would most likely be desynced. Such a mode would not be for everyone, surely, and that is why I believe Ubisoft should implement difficulty settings. Food for thought; not everyone wants to play Assassin’s Creed: Terminator.

At the end of the day I love the AC IP far too much to not continue playing (which I’m aware Ubisoft is fully aware of). I just hope you continue to hold the series to the high-standards and ideas that the previous games have always been held to, Ubisoft, and to remember the Creed on which this entire series is based.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
ConnivingEagle do you real think that ubisoft will read any of our threads? they want a game where everyone is able to do anything while i want a game where only skilled ppl are able to do the more effective things (fight for exemple is more effective than stealthy if you have skill at Ac1 but at Ac2 it's the same thing have or not skill, it will always be more effective)...

I won't stop spamming every thread about the game and suggestions on the features part but i really have no faith in ubisoft to make the game perfect... Another unique franchise with potential sent to the river of money making. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I am pretty sure that you and I are in a losing battle; but, I don't care. I can't give up, Assassin's Creed is my favorite franchise. But most of the things I suggest are in hopes that the game will become more fun. I don't know... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to point that Assassin's Creed is not my favorite franchise cuz it's taking away from the first game porpuse.

God Of War is my favorite franchise and it looks like it will continue to be



Also, we are not in a losing battle, we are doing a battle already lost:

Devlopers: Well, what should we do? Make a game that keep the initial goal (making a new generation of gaming) or make a game which follows the storyline of the very first games but with a gameplay adapted to every single man in the world so ******ed ppl and action-searcher ppl will buy it too and we will make money.
Ubisoft Owner: Are you ****ing kidding me? I don't care about gamers, i just want money!

Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
Of course Ubisoft will read these threads, although most suggestions will only have minor effects if any on the game. It's unreasonable to expect any one commentator to be able to influence them a great deal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really think so? If so I might as well quit now. I was disappointed with Brotherhood, I don't want to be disappointed with Revelations.

DavisP92
06-10-2011, 04:14 PM
okay after reading the posts here i have mixed views about it, of course i see that AC is moving away from the original concept and i hate that. but regarding destroying a tower and a fleet, i think that’s acceptable but should not be seen as something u will do all the time. relax they did that for the wow moments and those are good improvements in the game. What i would like to see is the original idea behind preparing for an assassination and escaping. And of course we all want the game to be harder, and the idea in ACB where Ezio looked completely different from everyone else was kind dumb. But in ACR his clothing somewhat resembled other NPCs.

And I have to say Ubisoft does listen to us, because it was the same people on this forum, and critics that complained about the game (AC1). not saying the ppl in this topic but I have seen ppl on here that want this to be more like a fps and to focus more on combat and forget stealth. but it is those ppl that ubisoft listened to for AC2 and ACB, and i can see that they are trying their best to make the game better. And if u think about it like this, there is no way that Ubisoft isn’t going to listen to us because AC is there biggest franchise now, and if they don’t do what we want in the game to some extent then they will lose fans thus losing money thus that whole “I don’t care about gamers, i just want money!” thing is thrown out the window.

Instead of just thinking we’re in a lost battle or losing battle, why not just have everyone work together and make one HUGE TOPIC. One that stays on top and forces Ubisoft to see what we want, we the gamers see and demand AC to be. And it’s not even hard to do, have one person start with what they think the game should have, and then someone copy their post and repost it with their ideas as well, of course there will be ppl with opposing ideas, but then don’t knock them down. Maybe Ubisoft can get something positive out of it. Continue to do this everyday even after ACR, and AC3 should be the game we all hope it to be. However for those ideas that resemble a FPS then i say remove or alter them so they will fit AC better, for example I wish (if there is coop and bows) that ubisoft takes out the lock on system for the bow so i can shoot a arrow in a targets arm or leg. this could actually open up gameplay allowing better main quest assassinations and teamwork with a friend. Some ppl may not like this idea but it doesn’t hurt to have it up, and maybe u might have a better idea then that then alter it for all i care. Make it something more interesting and enjoyable if u can.

PPl are whining about Ubisoft not seeing what we are saying to them (i’ve seen ppl actually whine, not to say ppl in this topic are but it’s getting there). How is ubisoft suppose to see what we are saying when everything is out of order?

lukaszep
06-10-2011, 04:20 PM
(EDIT: I like the above post ^ )

Ubisoft Montreal have said themselves they listen to the community, and during ACB multiplayer testing they responded to the feedback amazingly.
Anyway, i completely agree. Another thing that comes to mind is, i don't remember there being any blood in AC1. I'm not sure whether this is a bad memory, but if i'm right then this must be some kind of sign that Ezio is just too bloodthirsty. You could play through AC1 killing just the 9 targets. I bet you couldn't do that with AC2 AC:B and probably AC:R.

DavisP92
06-10-2011, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
(EDIT: I like the above post ^ )

Ubisoft Montreal have said themselves they listen to the community, and during ACB multiplayer testing they responded to the feedback amazingly.
Anyway, i completely agree. Another thing that comes to mind is, i don't remember there being any blood in AC1. I'm not sure whether this is a bad memory, but if i'm right then this must be some kind of sign that Ezio is just too bloodthirsty. You could play through AC1 killing just the 9 targets. I bet you couldn't do that with AC2 AC:B and probably AC:R. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha thank u for liking my post. In AC1 there was blood, it was more of a foggy/mist blood when killing someone. and u might be right about only having to kill 9 targets but no one really did that(that i know of), however that is an interesting thing to bring up.

lukaszep
06-10-2011, 04:35 PM
Ahh my mistake about the blood then. Apols.
Does anyone else remember sneaking into the city, going above the guards? And pretending to pray when you were hiding? sigh. Good times.

rain89c
06-10-2011, 04:36 PM
Totally agreed. First thing that put me off Revelation gameplay were those ridiculous explosions here and there. Cmon, this is AC, not CoD. ****...
More stealth and less explosions please.

Keksus
06-10-2011, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Go up to any group of gaurds, provoke them, and let them kill you. It literally takes two minutes for you to finally get killed by the gaurds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got killed? Oh well. I tried this once against one enemy ... let's just say this: I left for about 45 minutes to buy groceries ... the guard didn't manage it to kill me.

Deactivating the auto regen woul indeed be a good thing.

About the rest of your post: I don't think that they have to reward stealth more. I think they should make it at least available to you. Like you said: The missions are way too scripted, often preventing you from using stealth ... and forcing you to do it in other missions which also is boring because well ... when they deteect you it's game over. So well ... you have to options: Assassinate the target like the developers planned or game over. And this is boring as well even though it's a stealth mission. Would be better if you had to chase your target instead of getting a simple game over if you get detected.

rain89c
06-10-2011, 04:45 PM
They need to make it so that when youre facing even 3-4 guards it will put your skills to the challenge. Even forcing you to flee. Not make it so you can kill all 2 dozen guards even when detected.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keksus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Go up to any group of gaurds, provoke them, and let them kill you. It literally takes two minutes for you to finally get killed by the gaurds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got killed? Oh well. I tried this once against one enemy ... let's just say this: I left for about 45 minutes to buy groceries ... the guard didn't manage it to kill me.

Deactivating the auto regen woul indeed be a good thing.

About the rest of your post: I don't think that they have to reward stealth more. I think they should make it at least available to you. Like you said: The missions are way too scripted, often preventing you from using stealth ... and forcing you to do it in other missions which also is boring because well ... when they deteect you it's game over. So well ... you have to options: Assassinate the target like the developers planned or game over. And this is boring as well even though it's a stealth mission. Would be better if you had to chase your target instead of getting a simple game over if you get detected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If u didn't understand what i meant with reward stealth, if the combat is harder you will take more time to kill the guards, if you take more time to kill the guards you will prefer be stealth. If you have enough skill you will be able to fight those guards without losing time and so, don't stay bored being stealth....

Also Pdavis3, i think for that we should have an external forum where each ppl would post their ideas and than any1 could make compilation, each week a new thread is make with the compilation of all the ideas, ppl start posting if they dislike anything and what they would add... This would keep so until 31th December 2011 and than any1 should post here the final compilation of ideas...

Than, each guy would post his own compilation of ideas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The forum wouldn't need to be well worked as it would be only to compile ideas...

Velvit
06-10-2011, 05:09 PM
First of all it would be cool if they added a difficulty setting.

They need to make the guards more aggressive. Why waste time having them stare at you for 20 seconds. It will add difficulty and speed up battles. Let them throw sand, break out of blocks.

The main reason I see why Killing guards get easier every game is that ezio is getting better but the guards are not. Just look at the combat options between Assassins creed and AC brotherhood.

Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 05:09 PM
@Pdavis3, we're trying that already. Read my 'Double Counter' forum. It's an attempt to make combat fun again in ACR, I was kind of upset with the turn that combat took in ACB.

DavisP92
06-10-2011, 05:24 PM
@daniel, honestly anything is good, with all the ppl we have on the forums i know someone should be able to create it

@conniving, i have read it and in fact i have already posted on it b4. But as i read it now i see some ppl talking about COD and counter-strike. Although i assume they are speaking about comparing AC to those games or something, however i don’t just mean combat. I’m referring to everything, from combat to stealth, to parkour to simple things like clothing options and so on. The game altogether. I like how u presented ur topic but i was thinking more of a list of what ppl want in the game, and with each post the list continues to grow and after a while the topic is closed and reopened with the new and improved list of everyone’s ideas. and as time goes on hopefully more ideas will continue to come up.

Conniving_Eagle
06-10-2011, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pdavis3:
@daniel, honestly anything is good, with all the ppl we have on the forums i know someone should be able to create it

@conniving, i have read it and in fact i have already posted on it b4. But as i read it now i see some ppl talking about COD and counter-strike. Although i assume they are speaking about comparing AC to those games or something, however i don’t just mean combat. I’m referring to everything, from combat to stealth, to parkour to simple things like clothing options and so on. The game altogether. I like how u presented ur topic but i was thinking more of a list of what ppl want in the game, and with each post the list continues to grow and after a while the topic is closed and reopened with the new and improved list of everyone’s ideas. and as time goes on hopefully more ideas will continue to come up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I think that's what we have to do. If we really want Ubisoft to take in our ideas, we have to keep them on the Forum's top page and let them grow. If they see an interesting topic name with like 5,000 views they are bound to read it, and if it is a good idea, they might implement it. That's what I'm going for with the Double Counter idea thread. To keep it alive, daniel and I are discussing how else they could tweak the combat system. This thread has sort of the same purpose. I like the compilation idea, but instead of just making a new thread, we can make a general thread kind of like the boldened ones, and in the title we write the date it was last edited.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pdavis3:
@daniel, honestly anything is good, with all the ppl we have on the forums i know someone should be able to create it

@conniving, i have read it and in fact i have already posted on it b4. But as i read it now i see some ppl talking about COD and counter-strike. Although i assume they are speaking about comparing AC to those games or something, however i don’t just mean combat. I’m referring to everything, from combat to stealth, to parkour to simple things like clothing options and so on. The game altogether. I like how u presented ur topic but i was thinking more of a list of what ppl want in the game, and with each post the list continues to grow and after a while the topic is closed and reopened with the new and improved list of everyone’s ideas. and as time goes on hopefully more ideas will continue to come up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I think that's what we have to do. If we really want Ubisoft to take in our ideas, we have to keep them on the Forum's top page and let them grow. If they see an interesting topic name with like 5,000 views they are bound to read it, and if it is a good idea, they might implement it. That's what I'm going for with the Double Counter idea thread. To keep it alive, daniel and I are discussing how else they could tweak the combat system. This thread has sort of the same purpose. I like the compilation idea, but instead of just making a new thread, we can make a general thread kind of like the boldened ones, and in the title we write the date it was last edited. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

making new thread was to have it cleaner... Right now i'm unable to do it... but on july i would have 24/7 to do the forum and manage it :P

lukaszep
06-10-2011, 05:41 PM
I like the idea of getting Ubisoft to notice this, so maybe you could make this topic about ideas for stealth and social interaction elements etc. and the combat topic about...combat. That way there could be two topics at the top of the list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyway more on to the point... I like in some cases how they've added more linear sequences to mix up the gameplay and please a wider audience, but i think they should be specific in not making assassinations linear so they have more replayability and allow players to be more creative like AC1 and parts of AC2.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I like the idea of getting Ubisoft to notice this, so maybe you could make this topic about ideas for stealth and social interaction elements etc. and the combat topic about...combat. That way there could be two topics at the top of the list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyway more on to the point... I like in some cases how they've added more linear sequences to mix up the gameplay and please a wider audience, but i think they should be specific in not making assassinations linear so they have more replayability and allow players to be more creative like AC1 and parts of AC2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've already talked about the linear missions.. the story should be devloped with linear missions but than, there should be investigations missions for the assassinations and the more you do, the easier the assassination would be too u cuz u would have more info...

lukaszep
06-10-2011, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I like the idea of getting Ubisoft to notice this, so maybe you could make this topic about ideas for stealth and social interaction elements etc. and the combat topic about...combat. That way there could be two topics at the top of the list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyway more on to the point... I like in some cases how they've added more linear sequences to mix up the gameplay and please a wider audience, but i think they should be specific in not making assassinations linear so they have more replayability and allow players to be more creative like AC1 and parts of AC2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've already talked about the linear missions.. the story should be devloped with linear missions but than, there should be investigations missions for the assassinations and the more you do, the easier the assassination would be too u cuz u would have more info... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...Was it you i had a small conversation about finding out more informations enabling you to plan different ways of assassinating your targets?
There's so many topics about the same kind of things lately that i'm getting confused.

iN3krO
06-10-2011, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I like the idea of getting Ubisoft to notice this, so maybe you could make this topic about ideas for stealth and social interaction elements etc. and the combat topic about...combat. That way there could be two topics at the top of the list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyway more on to the point... I like in some cases how they've added more linear sequences to mix up the gameplay and please a wider audience, but i think they should be specific in not making assassinations linear so they have more replayability and allow players to be more creative like AC1 and parts of AC2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've already talked about the linear missions.. the story should be devloped with linear missions but than, there should be investigations missions for the assassinations and the more you do, the easier the assassination would be too u cuz u would have more info... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...Was it you i had a small conversation about finding out more informations enabling you to plan different ways of assassinating your targets?
There's so many topics about the same kind of things lately that i'm getting confused. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe we both talked about it... all i'm happy about is that ppl is revealing their self saying that it's enought, this game must stop to grow in the way it's growing and must grow in the why the old, good fans want http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

KrYpToNiC95
06-10-2011, 06:03 PM
Do you think that maybe when it comes to assassinations that the target actually doesn't come up on the mini map. They should say for example, we have enough knowledge to know that the target will be attending a service at the Agia Sophia. Then by your own knowledge you should head there. there should be no green circle around the area but i should be restricted Only when you get there. Then you must find the target in the church kill him and leave undetected. I think that would encourage a higher level of stealth and remove scripted missions. It would be good to be able to complete an assassination in more than 3 or 4 ways. Also they need investigations back from AC1 as an extra to find more info about the target.


Tell me if you agree with this next point. Maybe, depending on your actions in the random events that occur throughout the world our notoriety could work like it does in Infamous. Good actions encourage good notoriety and help from the people. Bad actions encourage bad notoriety, the guards will still attack you but factions and the people will not help because you have not helped them.

masterfenix2009
06-11-2011, 01:16 AM
Of course he blew up the tower! What was he going to do? Leave by swimming?

lukaszep
06-11-2011, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrYpToNiC95:
Do you think that maybe when it comes to assassinations that the target actually doesn't come up on the mini map. They should say for example, we have enough knowledge to know that the target will be attending a service at the Agia Sophia. Then by your own knowledge you should head there. there should be no green circle around the area but i should be restricted Only when you get there. Then you must find the target in the church kill him and leave undetected. I think that would encourage a higher level of stealth and remove scripted missions. It would be good to be able to complete an assassination in more than 3 or 4 ways. Also they need investigations back from AC1 as an extra to find more info about the target.


Tell me if you agree with this next point. Maybe, depending on your actions in the random events that occur throughout the world our notoriety could work like it does in Infamous. Good actions encourage good notoriety and help from the people. Bad actions encourage bad notoriety, the guards will still attack you but factions and the people will not help because you have not helped them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love the Good and Bad actions idea. So if you kill civilians, or loads of guards openly it makes the NCP's hate you and maybe throw stones at you if they see you. Killing a hated target, helping civilians, (and repairing buildings?) makes more vigilantes appear around the city.

Vey03
06-11-2011, 04:10 AM
Yeah, well, i've said it time and time again, but i totally agree with you guys.

I'm playing BH through again because i lost my savegame. And i'm telling you, after the wonder and amazement at what a brilliant game it was when i first bought it, now, i'm not so thrilled anymore.
Nothing takes time. Nothing makes you think. There are simply so many guards and so little opportunity to be stealthy. And some missons call for chases and all-out fighting against a whole army.
And when they don't, it's virtually impossible to get to someone using stealth, as there are limited (or none in some cases) blend opportunities available.

In other thread i've read, people keep going on about not forcing you to be stealthy. Well, guess what? Don't force me not to be. Don't force me to be some super-human mercinary, because i'm not, and i hate to be.

Once thing i absolutely hate is chasing. Running and chasing.
For someone so skilled as an assassin, i feel it's silly of them to be running after people, and stupid of them to get themselves into fights with so many guards. They should know better. They should never put themselves in either situation.

I have spent ages with some missons, trying to come up with stealth ways of killing someone and not be involved in stupid chases, or fights with 100 guards. But to no avail.

AC2 was better than BH in stealth. Much better.

I hate the idea of having all these bombs to use in ACR. I'm not someone who uses even smoke bombs, and it's something i will try my darndest not to use in ACR. Although i'm sure there will be no way around them.
And hearing in every interview that you can be stealthy using a bomb gets on my nerves. A bomb, by it's very definition, is not stealth!

AC1 may have been repetative and a little boring because of that. But it was meant to be someone new, something exciting. And it was.

And it was meant to have consequences for your actions. No idea what happened there.

I love AC. I love all the games, and i'll buy ACR, and i'm sure i'll love that too. But just not as much as AC1 and AC2.

I think it's a little late to hope for change for ACR, we've seen the demos and the game is what the game is.
But maybe we can hope for a little change. Not everyone wants to run around like a madman, killing everyone in sight.

M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S
06-11-2011, 05:05 AM
While I agree stealth needs to be encouraged, PLEASE Ubisoft can you get rid of being desynchronised because you were detected UNLESS you are working undercover: eg the disguises in AC:B assassinations.

I loved it in AC1 that they encouraged you to stealthily kill your target, but it was VERY HARD for some targets, whereas if they screw up they have to go through a huge fight with guards and kill their target by sword or something...

This system was great because it gave us freedom to choose how to assassinate, but we were encouraged to follow the creed, eg: the achievement "blade in the crowd".

Personally I love to be creative with Assassinations, and find many different ways of doing them all, but it drove me damn crazy getting desynched because I was detected when EXPERIMENTING.

Just to say.. the Creed required the Assassin to be stealthy and remain incognito when approaching the target, whereas they were expected to perform high profile, jaw dropping Assassinations for everybody to see once they were close enough - example: AC1 intro movie, incognito kills on multiplayer...

One more thing.. could we get rid of the countdown to desynch when we can't see who we are following? I mean fair enough it makes us follow them how an assassin would, but a better idea would be to not have them on the mini-map, and if we lose track of them its our job to find them before they reach their destination.

Inorganic9_2
06-11-2011, 05:13 AM
I agree that they shouldn't force you to not be stealthy in some missions. You should only have to reveal when you strike (if at all!). That's why I like the Borgia towers; you could run in there swords and hidden guns blazing, or you could take your time and quietly hunt your target out of the eyes of the people or indeed within them. One of my favourite ones is the Borgia leader in Southern Campagna that is in the convoy of three Destriers and whose tower is surrounded by arquebusiers and brute. I sneak up onto a low rooftop nearby him as he rides past and shoot him with a poison dart...then I'm gone by the time he gets up off the ground. Ride to the tower on its undefended side and time it perfectly so I can sneak up it with minimal contact (so far, killing one crossbowman and arquebusier is the minimal amount of kills I get :P)

Perfect!

Let the COD-people run in there with their assassins and their battleaxe and chop everyone up. I don't have to.

SupremeCaptain
06-11-2011, 08:50 AM
I'll always remember that feeling of "Oh crap!" when I was outnumbered 10-1 in AC1, and got my *** kicked so I had to run away. After escaping half of them, I always turned around to make a stand. I felt awesome cos I managed to shake them off.

Now in ACB, I don't have that feeling of being overwhelmed nor the feeling of badassness. I just think "Where's the challenge?".

It's a shame the combat got ridiculously easy.

iN3krO
06-11-2011, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
I'll always remember that feeling of "Oh crap!" when I was outnumbered 10-1 in AC1, and got my *** kicked so I had to run away. After escaping half of them, I always turned around to make a stand. I felt awesome cos I managed to shake them off.

Now in ACB, I don't have that feeling of being overwhelmed nor the feeling of badassness. I just think "Where's the challenge?".

It's a shame the combat got ridiculously easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

this

k20ml
06-11-2011, 09:57 AM
I know that this page will sooner or later be closed by the mods but i agree.

&gt; STEALTH should come back. It's the whole point of the game.
&gt;Fight should be an assassin's last resort. If NOTHING else fits into the puzzle, fighting your way in or out should be the last thing you would want to do.
&gt; Health. We know that the more you gain synchronization, the more you gain health. But should that always be the case?
&gt; Weight. If health is reinforced by heavy armor like metal armor, the weight of the armor itself will make it difficult for the assassin to do parkour let alone run. Even if they are the descendants of both Humans and TWCB, weight should still a problem.
&gt; Combat. I like the improvement of combat in ACB. Although it is not in its full potential. I like how guards will simultaneously attack you while you are trying to defend against these attacks. It should be taken further. Guards should be 20x more aggressive than in ACB. guards should attack more rather than trying to defend. I like how lower ranking guards flee because of fear but there should at least be 1 in 6 occasions that this occurrence will happen. And as for the fleeing guards, there should only be at least 2 in an 8 guard army.
&gt; Amount of carried arsenals. One person cannot carry 15 bottles of medicine, 15 poison vials, 10 circular bullets, 3 hand-sized smoke bombs, 25 throwing knives, 25 arrow bolts, a sword, a knife, and a hidden gun without at least having a hard time moving. Let alone in a coin-purse sized container. Thinking is an understatement with these much in your disposal. You can choose to kill all the guards looking out for you without so much thinking and that being said, there is no replay value in that. And it totally dismantles the entire idea of creativity while playing and sandbox gameplay. It should be obvious for guards to easily notice and suspect you with all that arsenals.
&gt;Information gathering. I like how you should gather information about your targets like in AC 1. You get maps of the area your target will be located, you hear rumors about your targets personality on how he/she handles stress, you hear clues where you can sneakily start your mission and stuff like that. But not make the entire game in that concept. Probably in side missions so that there will be replay value and story line in each of them.

In conclusion, stealth should be an integral part of gameplay! As for the tenants, here...

&gt;Innocent guards. Not all guards have evil intentions. Some of them probably are just doing what they are told. This could be a great change for gameplay and creativity. Let's say, a guard is looking out for you. He is not truly evil. He will either let you pass or alert the other guards or just flee when they see you. But suppose he is blocking your way. You have to choose whether or not to kill that guard or just stun him. Killing him would greatly increase notoriety, let's say 75% but stunning him would increase notoriety by 5% equal to that of stealing. Activating eagle sense would allow you to recognize who will run and tell other guards, flee, or let you pass. THEREFORE THE FIRST TENANT IS JUSTIFIED.
&gt; Notoriety. Guards shouldn't be the only ones suspicious about your presence, civilians too. Notice that civilians does not seem to listen to heralds when they preach of your "horrible" actions? If you are truly notorious with your wanted posters posted everywhere and heralds speak about you and city officials conspiring against you, civilians should also be suspicious of you as well. If they get to a certain level of suspicion, they may secretly report you to nearby guards and guards will hunt you down and you would have to flee. Or they could simply walk away and ignore you because they secretly know your motives or choose to scream and panic alerting the guards triggering a fight. Activating Eagle sense should allow you to recognize which civilian will tell the guards, walk away, or scream and panic. Bribing heralds should't be that easy as well, they should also flee when they see you coming. Killing officials will whether or not increase or decrease your notoriety level depending on how you execute them. Flashier executions should increase notoriety while inconspicuous should significantly decrease notoriety. THE SECOND TENANT IS THEREFORE JUSTIFIED.
&gt;COMPROMISING THE BROTHERHOOD. If and if in some circumstances that you,in no other way, have to compromise the brotherhood, your brotherhood will suffer for it, and eventually you. Let's say you assassinated the Templar's general of the army in a flashy manner or against the creed. The army will storm the area, in massive numbers, where they heard the assassins have taken over and eliminate them. Like the new and improved concept of the Borgia towers in ACR. Although the attacks should directly depend on your actions. Players who like subtlety get subtlety. Players who like adrenaline action get adrenaline action. Also your assassins should play a major role in gameplay and storyline. Like I have mentioned earlier, enemies should be 20x more aggressive. Your brothers can and will help you against the opposing forces. If you do not compromise the brotherhood, combat against a significant number of soldiers should be easy with the help of your assassins. But if you continue to compromise the brotherhood, combat would be more challenging since there are less assassins to help you now because they died defending the fortress. THEREFORE THE THIRD TENANT IS JUSTIFIED.

crash3
06-11-2011, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
I know that this page will sooner or later be closed by the mods but i agree.

&gt; STEALTH should come back. It's the whole point of the game.
&gt;Fight should be an assassin's last resort. If NOTHING else fits into the puzzle, fighting your way in or out should be the last thing you would want to do.
&gt; Health. We know that the more you gain synchronization, the more you gain health. But should that always be the case?
&gt; Weight. If health is reinforced by heavy armor like metal armor, the weight of the armor itself will make it difficult for the assassin to do parkour let alone run. Even if they are the descendants of both Humans and TWCB, weight should still a problem.
&gt; Combat. I like the improvement of combat in ACB. Although it is not in its full potential. I like how guards will simultaneously attack you while you are trying to defend against these attacks. It should be taken further. Guards should be 20x more aggressive than in ACB. guards should attack more rather than trying to defend. I like how lower ranking guards flee because of fear but there should at least be 1 in 6 occasions that this occurrence will happen. And as for the fleeing guards, there should only be at least 2 in an 8 guard army.
&gt; Amount of carried arsenals. One person cannot carry 15 bottles of medicine, 15 poison vials, 10 circular bullets, 3 hand-sized smoke bombs, 25 throwing knives, 25 arrow bolts, a sword, a knife, and a hidden gun without at least having a hard time moving. Let alone in a coin-purse sized container. Thinking is an understatement with these much in your disposal. You can choose to kill all the guards looking out for you without so much thinking and that being said, there is no replay value in that. And it totally dismantles the entire idea of creativity while playing and sandbox gameplay. It should be obvious for guards to easily notice and suspect you with all that arsenals.
&gt;Information gathering. I like how you should gather information about your targets like in AC 1. You get maps of the area your target will be located, you hear rumors about your targets personality on how he/she handles stress, you hear clues where you can sneakily start your mission and stuff like that. But not make the entire game in that concept. Probably in side missions so that there will be replay value and story line in each of them.

In conclusion, stealth should be an integral part of gameplay! As for the tenants, here...

&gt;Innocent guards. Not all guards have evil intentions. Some of them probably are just doing what they are told. This could be a great change for gameplay and creativity. Let's say, a guard is looking out for you. He is not truly evil. He will either let you pass or alert the other guards or just flee when they see you. But suppose he is blocking your way. You have to choose whether or not to kill that guard or just stun him. Killing him would greatly increase notoriety, let's say 75% but stunning him would increase notoriety by 5% equal to that of stealing. Activating eagle sense would allow you to recognize who will run and tell other guards, flee, or let you pass. THEREFORE THE FIRST TENANT IS JUSTIFIED.
&gt; Notoriety. Guards shouldn't be the only ones suspicious about your presence, civilians too. Notice that civilians does not seem to listen to heralds when they preach of your "horrible" actions? If you are truly notorious with your wanted posters posted everywhere and heralds speak about you and city officials conspiring against you, civilians should also be suspicious of you as well. If they get to a certain level of suspicion, they may secretly report you to nearby guards and guards will hunt you down and you would have to flee. Or they could simply walk away and ignore you because they secretly know your motives or choose to scream and panic alerting the guards triggering a fight. Activating Eagle sense should allow you to recognize which civilian will tell the guards, walk away, or scream and panic. Bribing heralds should't be that easy as well, they should also flee when they see you coming. Killing officials will whether or not increase or decrease your notoriety level depending on how you execute them. Flashier executions should increase notoriety while inconspicuous should significantly decrease notoriety. THE SECOND TENANT IS THEREFORE JUSTIFIED.
&gt;COMPROMISING THE BROTHERHOOD. If and if in some circumstances that you,in no other way, have to compromise the brotherhood, your brotherhood will suffer for it, and eventually you. Let's say you assassinated the Templar's general of the army in a flashy manner or against the creed. The army will storm the area, in massive numbers, where they heard the assassins have taken over and eliminate them. Like the new and improved concept of the Borgia towers in ACR. Although the attacks should directly depend on your actions. Players who like subtlety get subtlety. Players who like adrenaline action get adrenaline action. Also your assassins should play a major role in gameplay and storyline. Like I have mentioned earlier, enemies should be 20x more aggressive. Your brothers can and will help you against the opposing forces. If you do not compromise the brotherhood, combat against a significant number of soldiers should be easy with the help of your assassins. But if you continue to compromise the brotherhood, combat would be more challenging since there are less assassins to help you now because they died defending the fortress. THEREFORE THE THIRD TENANT IS JUSTIFIED. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


i totally agree with you, i reckon you should post that on a few more threads just to spread your good ideas better!

ItzJaSoN24
06-11-2011, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rain89c:
They need to make it so that when youre facing even 3-4 guards it will put your skills to the challenge. Even forcing you to flee. Not make it so you can kill all 2 dozen guards even when detected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just recently bought the orginal AC after putting about 50 hours into brotherhood and let me tell you, it is way more challenging than brotherhood. First, when I stumble across a templar I actually brace myself for one hell of a fight. Second, on my way to Acre there were these camps filled with small armies of soldiers and I decided to see if I can take them all on and well..lets say if you make a wrong move you can say goodbye to half of your health. And third, THE SOLDIERS FIGHT BACK! While fighting the small armies by Acre they actually countered my attacks! Everytime they countered one of my attacks I lost health! Not only that but soldiers grab you and toss you around, thats what they did to me and i fell into a giant pit where i eventually died being outnumber 20:1 (in Brotherhood that would be embarrasing but in the original thats understandable). Hopefully they take some lessons from what they did in the orginal AC and place them in ACR.

reini03
06-11-2011, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ItzJaSoN24:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rain89c:
They need to make it so that when youre facing even 3-4 guards it will put your skills to the challenge. Even forcing you to flee. Not make it so you can kill all 2 dozen guards even when detected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just recently bought the orginal AC after putting about 50 hours into brotherhood and let me tell you, it is way more challenging than brotherhood. First, when I stumble across a templar I actually brace myself for one hell of a fight. Second, on my way to Acre there were these camps filled with small armies of soldiers and I decided to see if I can take them all on and well..lets say if you make a wrong move you can say goodbye to half of your health. And third, THE SOLDIERS FIGHT BACK! While fighting the small armies by Acre they actually countered my attacks! Everytime they countered one of my attacks I lost health! Not only that but soldiers grab you and toss you around, thats what they did to me and i fell into a giant pit where i eventually died being outnumber 20:1 (in Brotherhood that would be embarrasing but in the original thats understandable). Hopefully they take some lessons from what they did in the orginal AC and place them in ACR. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the guards will have to counter/dodge again.
And... make your own counter less powerful. Countering with the short blade in AC1 usually won't kill a guard immediatly. He'll fall to the ground and stand up again. Leave the Hidden Blade counter an auto-kill, I don't mind. But shorten the counter-timeframe! You've got, like, over one second time to press the counter button before the guard hits you. That's way shorter in AC1, especially with the Hidden Blade. Just my 2 cents

Conniving_Eagle
06-11-2011, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mouse03:
Yeah, well, i've said it time and time again, but i totally agree with you guys.

I'm playing BH through again because i lost my savegame. And i'm telling you, after the wonder and amazement at what a brilliant game it was when i first bought it, now, i'm not so thrilled anymore.
Nothing takes time. Nothing makes you think. There are simply so many guards and so little opportunity to be stealthy. And some missons call for chases and all-out fighting against a whole army.
And when they don't, it's virtually impossible to get to someone using stealth, as there are limited (or none in some cases) blend opportunities available.

In other thread i've read, people keep going on about not forcing you to be stealthy. Well, guess what? Don't force me not to be. Don't force me to be some super-human mercinary, because i'm not, and i hate to be.

Once thing i absolutely hate is chasing. Running and chasing.
For someone so skilled as an assassin, i feel it's silly of them to be running after people, and stupid of them to get themselves into fights with so many guards. They should know better. They should never put themselves in either situation.

I have spent ages with some missons, trying to come up with stealth ways of killing someone and not be involved in stupid chases, or fights with 100 guards. But to no avail.

AC2 was better than BH in stealth. Much better.

I hate the idea of having all these bombs to use in ACR. I'm not someone who uses even smoke bombs, and it's something i will try my darndest not to use in ACR. Although i'm sure there will be no way around them.
And hearing in every interview that you can be stealthy using a bomb gets on my nerves. A bomb, by it's very definition, is not stealth!

AC1 may have been repetative and a little boring because of that. But it was meant to be someone new, something exciting. And it was.

And it was meant to have consequences for your actions. No idea what happened there.

I love AC. I love all the games, and i'll buy ACR, and i'm sure i'll love that too. But just not as much as AC1 and AC2.

I think it's a little late to hope for change for ACR, we've seen the demos and the game is what the game is.
But maybe we can hope for a little change. Not everyone wants to run around like a madman, killing everyone in sight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really like your comment. I have to agree? +300 bombs?!? That sounds like you don't even have to fight people anymore. I only use bombs when I am fighting an army and need to get away. Or if the guards are blocking a doorway that is the easiest or clearest way out. And I know that the audience new to the franchise has no clue what stealth in AC is. Just play multiplayer on brotherhood. Multiplayer is about getting stealthy and getting your kill without your target knowing it. Yet, there are so many people who run around like idiots, and even rooftops. 50% of the time I finish an MP game in 1st place with less kills than the person in second.

thyevi
06-11-2011, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keksus:
Would be better if you had to chase your target instead of getting a simple game over if you get detected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

dxsxhxcx
06-11-2011, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:

&gt; Combat. I like the improvement of combat in ACB. Although it is not in its full potential. I like how guards will simultaneously attack you while you are trying to defend against these attacks. It should be taken further. Guards should be 20x more aggressive than in ACB. guards should attack more rather than trying to defend. I like how lower ranking guards flee because of fear but there should at least be 1 in 6 occasions that this occurrence will happen. And as for the fleeing guards, there should only be at least 2 in an 8 guard army.
&gt; Amount of carried arsenals. One person cannot carry 15 bottles of medicine, 15 poison vials, 10 circular bullets, 3 hand-sized smoke bombs, 25 throwing knives, 25 arrow bolts, a sword, a knife, and a hidden gun without at least having a hard time moving. Let alone in a coin-purse sized container. Thinking is an understatement with these much in your disposal. You can choose to kill all the guards looking out for you without so much thinking and that being said, there is no replay value in that. And it totally dismantles the entire idea of creativity while playing and sandbox gameplay. It should be obvious for guards to easily notice and suspect you with all that arsenals.

&gt;Information gathering. I like how you should gather information about your targets like in AC 1. You get maps of the area your target will be located, you hear rumors about your targets personality on how he/she handles stress, you hear clues where you can sneakily start your mission and stuff like that. But not make the entire game in that concept. Probably in side missions so that there will be replay value and story line in each of them.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you have some very good ideas here, dude.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

here are my suggestions:

Combat: I think if they add difficulty settings this would solve the problem and please everyone.

easy mode = same way as it's now;

normal mode = AC1 style, guards with better AI;

+ guards are able to block killstreaks (according to how much energy they have and their ranks the chance of doing this will increse/decrease);

+ only guards with less than 2 squares of energy will be 1HKO by a killstreak IF we hit them;

+ our energy will slowly recover during the battle when we aren't being hit by the guards (same way it was in AC1)


hard = I don't know, maybe the same as normal mode but the guards will deal more damage;

- our energy won't recover, only if we take a medicine;


Amount of carried arsenals: I was thinking in post a suggestion about this earlier, it's also related to the difficulty settings (if implemented)

example:

easy mode: the way it's now;

normal mode:

start with: 4 (or 3) medicine, 5 throwing knifes, 5 arrow bolts, 5 bullets, 3 bombs, 4 poisoned darts;

updgrade (only one upgrade is allowed on normal mode): 6 medicine, 10 throwing knifes, 8 arrow bolts, 8 bullets, 5 bombs, 6 poisoned darts;

hard mode: start with the same space as normal mode but there won't be any upgrade available during the game;


Notoriety: another thing they should add is a system where we would be able to "sleep" and have the option to wake up during the night/morning/afternoon (maybe something similar the Witcher 2, but we are only allowed to "sleep" in our hideout or in the assassin's den), playing during the day and night would be different, during the night we would see less civilians in the street, making harder for us to blend and the guards would be more suspicious too...

about the notoriety part, it would be interesting if (the condition above needs to be implemented for this to work) our notoriety after we remove some wanted posters and/or bribe someone only decrease if we sleep and wake up in the next day (to give them time to "forget" we exist.. :P):

during the night we would only need to sleep until morning;

morning: we need to sleep until next day's morning;

afternoon: same as above;

of course, we would be able to continue playing if we want instead of "sleep" to decrease our notoriety, but this way, our notoriety would only decrease when the next morning arrives...



ps: I'm sorry if I wrote something wrong, english is not my native language... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

piratprince
06-11-2011, 12:51 PM
Bombing down the tower down for the Chain is reasonable too me.Ezio has to leave Constantinople. He have to in order to leave
It will be great if they designed the gamemission with a rgp decision kind of gameplay. For instance: to send an assassin to bomb that tower while ezio is sneaking unseen to the ship. or he decises to bomb it by himself like in the demo etc.. The witcher 2 makes an incredible job on how decision can affect the game play.

Just a thought

Conniving_Eagle
06-11-2011, 12:56 PM
@dxsxhxcx

Read my other thread about combat. They don't have to add dificulty settings, they just need to change it in a certain way.

dxsxhxcx
06-11-2011, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
@dxsxhxcx

Read my other thread about combat. They don't have to add dificulty settings, they just need to change it in a certain way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I already read one of them, but I think giving everyone the option to play the way they want is better than force someone to play in a single way, if someone like the game being easy as it's now, there'll be easy mode for them, those seeking more challenge will have normal and hard mode, this way (if they do a good job, of course) everyone will be happy...

M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S
06-11-2011, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
I know that this page will sooner or later be closed by the mods but i agree.

&gt; STEALTH should come back. It's the whole point of the game.
&gt;Fight should be an assassin's last resort. If NOTHING else fits into the puzzle, fighting your way in or out should be the last thing you would want to do.
&gt; Health. We know that the more you gain synchronization, the more you gain health. But should that always be the case?
&gt; Weight. If health is reinforced by heavy armor like metal armor, the weight of the armor itself will make it difficult for the assassin to do parkour let alone run. Even if they are the descendants of both Humans and TWCB, weight should still a problem.
&gt; Combat. I like the improvement of combat in ACB. Although it is not in its full potential. I like how guards will simultaneously attack you while you are trying to defend against these attacks. It should be taken further. Guards should be 20x more aggressive than in ACB. guards should attack more rather than trying to defend. I like how lower ranking guards flee because of fear but there should at least be 1 in 6 occasions that this occurrence will happen. And as for the fleeing guards, there should only be at least 2 in an 8 guard army.
&gt; Amount of carried arsenals. One person cannot carry 15 bottles of medicine, 15 poison vials, 10 circular bullets, 3 hand-sized smoke bombs, 25 throwing knives, 25 arrow bolts, a sword, a knife, and a hidden gun without at least having a hard time moving. Let alone in a coin-purse sized container. Thinking is an understatement with these much in your disposal. You can choose to kill all the guards looking out for you without so much thinking and that being said, there is no replay value in that. And it totally dismantles the entire idea of creativity while playing and sandbox gameplay. It should be obvious for guards to easily notice and suspect you with all that arsenals.
&gt;Information gathering. I like how you should gather information about your targets like in AC 1. You get maps of the area your target will be located, you hear rumors about your targets personality on how he/she handles stress, you hear clues where you can sneakily start your mission and stuff like that. But not make the entire game in that concept. Probably in side missions so that there will be replay value and story line in each of them.

In conclusion, stealth should be an integral part of gameplay! As for the tenants, here...

&gt;Innocent guards. Not all guards have evil intentions. Some of them probably are just doing what they are told. This could be a great change for gameplay and creativity. Let's say, a guard is looking out for you. He is not truly evil. He will either let you pass or alert the other guards or just flee when they see you. But suppose he is blocking your way. You have to choose whether or not to kill that guard or just stun him. Killing him would greatly increase notoriety, let's say 75% but stunning him would increase notoriety by 5% equal to that of stealing. Activating eagle sense would allow you to recognize who will run and tell other guards, flee, or let you pass. THEREFORE THE FIRST TENANT IS JUSTIFIED.
&gt; Notoriety. Guards shouldn't be the only ones suspicious about your presence, civilians too. Notice that civilians does not seem to listen to heralds when they preach of your "horrible" actions? If you are truly notorious with your wanted posters posted everywhere and heralds speak about you and city officials conspiring against you, civilians should also be suspicious of you as well. If they get to a certain level of suspicion, they may secretly report you to nearby guards and guards will hunt you down and you would have to flee. Or they could simply walk away and ignore you because they secretly know your motives or choose to scream and panic alerting the guards triggering a fight. Activating Eagle sense should allow you to recognize which civilian will tell the guards, walk away, or scream and panic. Bribing heralds should't be that easy as well, they should also flee when they see you coming. Killing officials will whether or not increase or decrease your notoriety level depending on how you execute them. Flashier executions should increase notoriety while inconspicuous should significantly decrease notoriety. THE SECOND TENANT IS THEREFORE JUSTIFIED.
&gt;COMPROMISING THE BROTHERHOOD. If and if in some circumstances that you,in no other way, have to compromise the brotherhood, your brotherhood will suffer for it, and eventually you. Let's say you assassinated the Templar's general of the army in a flashy manner or against the creed. The army will storm the area, in massive numbers, where they heard the assassins have taken over and eliminate them. Like the new and improved concept of the Borgia towers in ACR. Although the attacks should directly depend on your actions. Players who like subtlety get subtlety. Players who like adrenaline action get adrenaline action. Also your assassins should play a major role in gameplay and storyline. Like I have mentioned earlier, enemies should be 20x more aggressive. Your brothers can and will help you against the opposing forces. If you do not compromise the brotherhood, combat against a significant number of soldiers should be easy with the help of your assassins. But if you continue to compromise the brotherhood, combat would be more challenging since there are less assassins to help you now because they died defending the fortress. THEREFORE THE THIRD TENANT IS JUSTIFIED. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should work for Ubisoft.

lukaszep
06-11-2011, 01:55 PM
They need to imoprove blending in with the crowd. Like in AC1 where you pretended to pray, and doing that would get you into places such as the actual city or a restricted area to assassinate a target. Also expanding on the good actions bad actions thing, i saw someone (in a different topic i think) posted about how some guards might want to help you, or might let you pass or run away before combat. This should definitely be implemented in the game. Also if you kill loads of guards or a civilian, additional guards should be posted in that area making it more difficult to navigate, making you more conscious of who you kill and disposing of the body.

k20ml
06-11-2011, 02:26 PM
@dxsxhxcx:

Thank you. Although I don't quite agree with the idea of sleeping in game. But the decreasing of notoriety in due time is what I strongly agree. Even if a poster is taken down or a herald is bribed or an official is killed, people will still remember your face and will continue to do so for a period of time. And then you would have to stay in a low profile for a little while before you can safely walk in the streets. That's a good idea.

About the amount arsenals. I was thinking it could be so limited. I mean, you cannot carry everything all at once. It would be so obvious that you are an assassin or a mercenary. Let's dismantle the concept of swords. Yeah you can carry swords, if you want guards to always suspect you and in any given time, given that they have reached a level of suspicion, attack you. I mean, you can only carry as much as 3 other items excluding the hidden blade, hidden gun and bullets, the poison needle and crossbow(optional: equip it or not for all if not certain missions). Like 1 poison vial, 1 medicine bottle and a smoke bomb. Or a sword, a knife, and a smoke bomb. Or 3 smoke bombs, or 3 medicine bottles. or 2 knives and a sword. or 2 swords and a smoke bomb. I don't like the idea of always relying on your weapons because it is always available. You can DISARM right? I don't always use disarm because my weapons are readily available. I think this gives the player more challenge and a way to think and be creative in a sandbox game.

Energy recovery. Yeah. About that. In a real-life fight, no one will take a break until the other one is ousted. So if you have read my post, you would see that I stated that guards would be 20x more aggressive. That means they isn't any break during combat it will be "heart-attack" inducing combat. That means, you have to be always alert for immediate, spontaneous, and simultaneous incoming attacks from guards. Or while in combat, guards will tackle you instead of holding on to you. That way it is harder. That would depend on which difficulty setting you set your difficulty into.

Health recovery. Yes. Have you played Left 4 Dead? The pills increases your health for a time. But it does not fully increases it. After taking a bottle of medicine, it will slightly increase health, depending on the size of the bottle, your health will gradually deplete to the damaged amount. You will heal in time. Your health will recover in due time let's say 10 minutes just like in AC 1 only slower. That way there is more challenge depending on which difficulty you choose.

@M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S

Hehe. I already live in Canada. Quebec is like a plane ride away.

I also like to include

Mission making and sharing. Just like in Infamous 2. That's cool.

Officials should have body guards.

Conniving_Eagle
06-11-2011, 07:06 PM
@k20ml

I like some of the things you said, but I'm also inclined to disagree with alot of them.

@Stealth - Not necesarily, but read my thread about Combat.

@Health - Not sure what you meant.

@Weight - No, this isn't Fallout. This idea is just one of those unnecesary things that slow down gameplay.

@Combat - I recommend reading my thread.

@Amount of carried arsenals - No, this has the same problem that a weight system would, it hinders, limits, and slows down gameplay. These two ideas are just like the concept of hardcore mode in Fallout: New Vegas. Yeah, they add realism, but they hinder gameplay. Hardcore was realistic, but it was plain annoying, and it didn't make the game harder by much. People only played hardcore for the acheivement. Another example would be Call of Duty without any killstreaks.

@Information Gathering - Yes I think in addition to the seqeunces, they should add these as side missions if someone wants to get more information about their target.

@Innocent Guards - No, they had these in AC2 and ACB, you had to assassinate them so that they could not alert the other guards. Them being innocent and being allowed to live contradicts advocating stealth. Also, you never gain +75% notoriety for anything other than assassinating a Templar/Key Target, no one would care that much for an innocent guard.

@Notoriety - I agree that the notoriety system should somehow be expanded in Revelations.

@Compromising the Brotherhood - Not too sure about this one, either.

iN3krO
06-11-2011, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
@Health - Not sure what you meant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My idea to make armor less important is making them only increanse resistence to weapons so instead of losing like 10 squares (from the strongest guards' hits) you would lose only 3 squares (if you have an armor with 7******* resistance)... If you start with 5 squares and you finish with 20 squares (thought same way ac1 had instead of the armor for health), you would need armor to don't die against stronger guards... Thought this way, weeker guards (3 squares per hit) wouldn't affect u with the better armor, but it's just an idea..

Also, health regeneration should be 1 square per 30 seconds if not in combat and 1 square per 60 seconds if in combat... If my idea is not implemented (the armor one), regen a half-sized square should take 10seconds (the same time?)...

And ofc, medicine OUT!

Conniving_Eagle
06-11-2011, 07:23 PM
I think that certain things in AC are fine the way they are. If it ain't broke don't fix it. There's no real way to improve the health system, only make it different, which makes it more complicated.

iN3krO
06-11-2011, 07:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
I think that certain things in AC are fine the way they are. If it ain't broke don't fix it. There's no real way to improve the health system, only make it different, which makes it more complicated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The health system is improved but i think having half-squares is enought... Armor should only interfer on how much squares you lose (or how much % of one square u do) and the health should be aquired the further u advance in the game (like in ac1)...

The medicine should be taken out and replaced for a regen system were in combat it would take double time to regen...

Conniving_Eagle
06-11-2011, 07:45 PM
@Daniel

Okay, um sure. If you really want health to be that way take it to Ubisoft. I think it's fine the way it is. But you are right about squares should only be halfed, not quartered.

k20ml
06-11-2011, 09:52 PM
@ConnivingEagle

Dude, you posted it yourself that you wanted AC to advocate stealth. My intention is the same. You posted about the tenets of the creed. I merely reinforced it. More stealth-required missions are ok. But quality stealth-required missions are even better. Although I think it would be too selfish of me to ask both quantity and quality given that they only had a year to create a sequel. And yes, combat should be the last resort an assassin have to deal with. Given that combat could compromise the brotherhood.

I think that my ideas are not thee perfect ones, but it gives players variety. I mean with weight and a set amount of arsenals, you can either be a professional stealthy assassin, which is what you wanted, or a badass barbaric bloodthirsty mercenary. And this further pushes your ability to be methodical in your assassinations, as what you wanted. For example, you can only carry 3 items, you chose to equip 2 swords and a smokebomb. You use the smokebomb (apply your double counter combat idea), use the 2 swords at the same time and be a badass slasher. Or you could use 1 poison vial, 1 smokebomb, 1 firecracker(if it is available in ACR), you use the firecracker to divert the attention of the crowd away from you. You then use the poison vial to silently and inconspicuously assassinate you target while giving you time to escape without being noticed. And the smokebomb is just for worst case scenarios.

Why would you disagree with most of my ideas? When I read your first post, I believe that you would want the same. And when I read your reply, you basically contradicted everything you stood for in your first post.

I know that AC is not broken. And the saying "Don't fix what isn't broken..." are for lazy or incompetent people. For people who cannot think of a better way to upgrade what is present. iPhone3g is not broken, but why would Apple create iPhone 4?

Health. Regeneration is totally fine. I just don't like it that regeneration is so fast. I like how your health regenerates over time, like in AC 1 because the body has its own way to heal itself. It only takes time. Andf medicines should act like painkillers. Like the pills in Left 4 Dead. It heals you, but it will slowly degenerate. Its an addition to valuing stealth and health.

If you don't simply agree with what I pointed out, then there should be a difficulty setting that each player is comfortable playing with. I personally would like challenge and a seemingly endless opportunity to push my methodical sadistic fantasies of assassination. Or pay 60 or more bucks on a game which only expands on its storyline but not in gameplay.

I do like your idea of double, triple, quadruple kill streak by successfully pressing the corresponding buttons on your controller that is indicated kin your TV screen. Although, I don't want to concentrate on that but rather on the animations. Probably by holding down the attack button, this animation/kill streak is triggered. You only have to press the right buttons indicated on the screen on key moments so that the streak is complete and successful.

I reckon you read my post and further understand it. I can only relay so much in words.

You see, AC has not reached its full potential in terms of social stealth, combat gameplay, and everything in its entire expanse.

NoCrowdedSky
06-11-2011, 10:36 PM
I agree with the people suggesting that fighting 3-4 guards should be something that is hard, i mean your an assassin not some superhuman soilder like in call of duty. (Dolphin dive then killing anyway?) I think if they made it hard to fight lots of guards at once it would give the player more options about how to assassinate a target, for example go one perticualr way and you might have to fight 5 guards, but go another way and you could aviod them but there would be some kind of other challange (havent though of one yet though)

davo1270
06-12-2011, 03:50 AM
couple of things that I expect:
-harder enemy AI, or less powerful weapons
-I liked the idea of no side missions and instead, replacing them with real time events
-deeper story(not complaining about the past stories, just thinking they could further deepen it)
-the above posts that talk about time of day/weather missions
-more parkour events
-more stealth
-love the idea of bomb customization (just don't make them overpowered)
-longer campaign
-make ezio a bit slower because he is 50 years old now
-NO 100% Synch during missions
-i know that you put the BAM back, just Please do not make them overpowered, actually make me bust my a** off to finish a mission
-if you put horses, make them faster and more customizable

Multiplayer:
-just put a very high level cap, and put some rewards for leveling up (rewards that could benefit the campaign part of the game ie)capes, new bomb types, costumes, cheats)

Overall, I think you guys are headed towards the right direction

I guess I would mainly like to see this:
AC + AC2 = ACR

DavisP92
06-12-2011, 09:46 AM
I have to agree with k20ml

combat should be something that shouldn’t be the first thing that ubisoft tries to improve on over everything else. Originally AC was more of a stealth game and they forgot that. Stealth should be improved on, and realism would be great for the game. Weight, and the amount of equipment u can carry should be limited, the more armor u have the slower u are. Although they should allow different play styles, if someone wears more armor they should be willing to take more hits, even showing that by having a counter were the assassin uses the armor to counter a guard. and a person that wears no armor should be faster and more agile. Doing moves like ezio did in the CG trailer.

All in all k20ml has great ideas for the game, and the ones he has posted here should be implemented in AC3, it might be too late for ACR.

And there better be co-op in AC3, and not just thrown on but a co-op story that allows u and ur friend to have two different play style if u want.

lukaszep
06-12-2011, 12:11 PM
I would like to see bigger groups of guards, i think that would present more of a challenge by itself.

Conniving_Eagle
06-12-2011, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
@ConnivingEagle

Dude, you posted it yourself that you wanted AC to advocate stealth. My intention is the same. You posted about the tenets of the creed. I merely reinforced it. More stealth-required missions are ok. But quality stealth-required missions are even better. Although I think it would be too selfish of me to ask both quantity and quality given that they only had a year to create a sequel. And yes, combat should be the last resort an assassin have to deal with. Given that combat could compromise the brotherhood.

I think that my ideas are not thee perfect ones, but it gives players variety. I mean with weight and a set amount of arsenals, you can either be a professional stealthy assassin, which is what you wanted, or a badass barbaric bloodthirsty mercenary. And this further pushes your ability to be methodical in your assassinations, as what you wanted. For example, you can only carry 3 items, you chose to equip 2 swords and a smokebomb. You use the smokebomb (apply your double counter combat idea), use the 2 swords at the same time and be a badass slasher. Or you could use 1 poison vial, 1 smokebomb, 1 firecracker(if it is available in ACR), you use the firecracker to divert the attention of the crowd away from you. You then use the poison vial to silently and inconspicuously assassinate you target while giving you time to escape without being noticed. And the smokebomb is just for worst case scenarios.

Why would you disagree with most of my ideas? When I read your first post, I believe that you would want the same. And when I read your reply, you basically contradicted everything you stood for in your first post.

I know that AC is not broken. And the saying "Don't fix what isn't broken..." are for lazy or incompetent people. For people who cannot think of a better way to upgrade what is present. iPhone3g is not broken, but why would Apple create iPhone 4?

Health. Regeneration is totally fine. I just don't like it that regeneration is so fast. I like how your health regenerates over time, like in AC 1 because the body has its own way to heal itself. It only takes time. Andf medicines should act like painkillers. Like the pills in Left 4 Dead. It heals you, but it will slowly degenerate. Its an addition to valuing stealth and health.

If you don't simply agree with what I pointed out, then there should be a difficulty setting that each player is comfortable playing with. I personally would like challenge and a seemingly endless opportunity to push my methodical sadistic fantasies of assassination. Or pay 60 or more bucks on a game which only expands on its storyline but not in gameplay.

I do like your idea of double, triple, quadruple kill streak by successfully pressing the corresponding buttons on your controller that is indicated kin your TV screen. Although, I don't want to concentrate on that but rather on the animations. Probably by holding down the attack button, this animation/kill streak is triggered. You only have to press the right buttons indicated on the screen on key moments so that the streak is complete and successful.

I reckon you read my post and further understand it. I can only relay so much in words.

You see, AC has not reached its full potential in terms of social stealth, combat gameplay, and everything in its entire expanse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, I think you might have misunderstood me. And I understand your intentions, I just don't agree with the way you want to acheive them. Just like the Assassins and Templars, I'm not implying anything about our opinions, just giving an example of what this is. We both want similar goals for the game. Before I elaborate, I want you to know that I have no problem with a very hard and realistic game, I've beaten alot of them and sometimes I really like them. I'll list a few shooter examples. I've beaten GoW2 on Insane, I've beaten CoD 2,4,5,6,7 on Veteran all very easily. I've beaten Halo:Reach, Halo:ODST and Halo:3 on solo legendary. I've beaten Fallout 3 on hard and Fallout: New Vegas on Hard Hardcore, and I was a pretty good strategical player on PC, Age of Mythology, Age of Empires, etc. I have no problem with playing a hard game, but sometimes I want to play a fun game. I thought AC1 one was a fairly easy game and had no problem with it. But I really liked what they did with the series in AC2. AC2 was my favorite installation in the series. It had a ton of new weapons, a ton of new animation, and a ton of new ways to kill people. It was easier than AC1 yes, because they reduced counter times and the quality of enemy AI. But it flowed so much better.

I said they need to advocate stealth because look at Brotherhood. How many stealth missions are there even in that game? Even the damn Romulus shrines and Templar missions. Half the time you'd walk right in front of a guy and end up chasing him for 5 minutes. In AC2 still had alot of stealth, and I beleive it was in AC2 where you had to complete a mission without being detected or you would be desynched. Not to mention, AC2 did have a better stealth system that let you blend in with the crowd more, hide a guard's body, etc. AC2 was the definition of a great sequel, it improved on or got rid of the things that didn't work in the original game, and implemented alot of new things. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. While reviews don't mean anything why do you think AC2 got the highest ratings?

When I said advocate stealth I didn't mean make guards super-bosses. As you know, I do think combat should be made harder than ACB, but it shouldn't become something that casual gamers will dislike. An average amount of guards is usually 3-6, usually containing one or two more elite guards. Here's how combat should work: A novice player will have some difficulty fighting an average group of guards. He will have a hard time performing counter-kills and starting kill-chains successfully, he will lose some or even a good-amount of his health dealing with the guards. He would lose around maybe 1/4 of his health and take about 40 seconds to kill all the guards. A skilled player would kill the guards quickly, maybe within 25 seconds, and lose minimal health. The Double counter thread basically explains how combat should work and how that would be possible.

Games are supposed to reward casual players and make them want to get better, not turn them off. I said you can reward stealth with things like acheivements, 100% sync, more money, maybe even special items of you complete a certain sequence stealthily. Another thing that they could do is easier escape routes. I will give you an example. Go back to AC1 when you had to assassinate William of Monferat in Acre. Let's say that the fortress gate was always open and you didn't have to maneuver over the walls. The fortress would be a restricted area. If you were spotted, there would be a cut-scene where a guard would alert the William that you were in the castle. William would then order that the gate be shut, and the position he was in would change. He would be surrounded by more guards, and you would become notorious. Where, if you did it stealthily without being detected, none of what I just said would have happened. Once you killed him, no one could give the order to shut the gate or pass the word on quick enough to alert ALL of the guards. Your escape and getting to your target would be much easier.

As for health, you're right, you shouldn't be able to regenerate so quickly, and medicine should regenerate over time. About arsenals and weight, I disagree with it, because it would slow down and limit gameplay, like I said. if you suggested it to Ubisoft, do you think they would say "Hey, that's a great idea, let's limit all the cool weapons and other stuff that we added in the game, and let's slow down the fluidity of the game by making parkouring slower, which makes things like the Hooked blade completely pointless!" I just don't see Assassin's Creed going in that direction, I mean that idea would REALLY change the game. Maybe in AC3, but I doubt it.

k20ml
06-12-2011, 03:33 PM
This is good keep it going. I like how our efforts in trying to combine ideas to create the near-perfect version of AC altogether tolerating differences.

Pdavis3 is on the same page as I am.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...the more armor u have the slower u are... allow different play styles ...more armor they should be willing to take more hits...no armor should be faster and more agile. Doing moves like ezio did in the CG trailer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

@ConnivingEagle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">..let's limit all the cool weapons and other stuff...slow down the fluidity of the game by making parkouring slower. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree with you that it may limit gameplay, but it challenges your skill to be methodical and creative with how you would achieve your goal. I stand my ground...for now.


Ok maybe forced limitation of carried arsenals is not a good idea. I have a new idea though. Let's say we can choose to equip or un-equip the available arsenals? How's that? We can choose to bring only 3 at the time being or choose to bring everything that is available.

Let's say we had that option in ACB. Remember The Banker sequence? What if, let's say, I chose only to bring, 1 poison vial, 5 throwing knives, and a smokebomb (the hidden blade, the hidden gun and its bullets are excluded from that option). I didn't choose to bring my sword, my crossbow, my knife, and few more things that could be a dead giveaway. Let's apply my idea of the new social stealth (if you have read it then you would know). Let's say weapons contribute to guards' suspicion level. More weapons=more chances of being detected.

1) I use the 5 throwing knives wisely to eliminate whoever is on my way or (if my "innocent guards" idea is applied) only those guards with true evil intentions.
2) Choose whether to sit on the bench or wait for Juan Borgia to turn around and poison him giving me time to escape.
3) I am now at a considerable distance from Juan Borgia. Guards don't notice me leaving because their attention are focused on the dying Juan. He dies, we watch the cutscene.

Now what do I do with the smokebomb? Nothing, it is only for worst case scenarios. Remember I didn't bring my sword with me, so it could help if in case I get detected and then triggering a fight.

Now with that option, we can either challenge ourselves or choose not to challenge ourselves. Why? Because there are so much possibilities on achieving the end goal. And one more thing, I don't usually use the disarm button because I always have my weapon with me. I don't always want to rely on my weapon, but I always end up doing so. You can tell me to just refuse to use the weapon and go for fists, but it is right there! Available for use. If you were reading some of the old threads concerning Ezio and his arsenals and blending in the crowd, you would probably understand where I am coming from.

Anyway, let's keep this up until we can compile great ideas for the betterment of the franchise.

Conniving_Eagle
06-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Sure. But keep in mind, we have to think of ideas that we could see ubisoft adding. Maybe for us hardcore players they could add that option - The option to limit the amount of weapons that we could bring. But again, the forums are for hardcore gamers who know what they're talking about, not the general public of casual players who play AC. We can't have a game that only we would enjoy.

Dimension3500
06-12-2011, 07:52 PM
Great topic with incredibly amazing ideas guys, let's try to keep it on the top of the list so UbiDevelopers can see it...
I truly hope they use some of the stuff proposed here...

Highwayman48
06-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I agree with every point you made, and I sincerely hope Ubisoft sees this.

mrbrandonette
06-12-2011, 08:44 PM
I believe that at first you will be using stealthy techniques just as the other games did, but after sequence one or two you can just go high profile and kill anyone. Now if they take out all the capes and their abilities, then it would be more interesting. You would have to actually focus on your notoriety, as you should as an assassin. Anyways, soon after the beginning of the game, the templars will realize that Ezio is there and go all ape****. I mean he is the Grandmaster/Mentor/Leader of the entire Order of Assassins and has personally killed like 15 of their most important men and bound to kill more. They have a great opportunity to put stealth back and the game and they should.

On a side note, I like the sound of the Janissaries and other increasingly difficult enemies for Ezio to actually make the game a CHALLENGE instead of cruising thru the game without losing a health bar. I mean you don't even have to buy armor lol

bakerrossera
06-12-2011, 08:56 PM
Great points man I have to say I agree with every single point you said. I have nothing against scripted moments in games (I think the demo for ACR they showed at E3 looked awesome) just dont over do them and put in some freedom especially for assassinations. Hopefully they add a lot more assassinations as that was my biggest complaint with brotherhood. Also they need to expand on social stealth they same way they have with combat and continue to make it better and more useful with each entry in the series

mrbrandonette
06-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Yeah some of the speeches can be lenghty and drawn-out, but I think that they should keep that little speech he has with the men he kills. It allows for more light to be shed on their motives and the templars as a whole. They should keep it relatively quick and interesting tho.
I also agree with the chance to assassinate how you want to. Usually you either confront them in sword fight and smack 'em to death or you have a designated path you have to follow to get near them to assassinate them. A little more options and diversity in how you want to go about killing them would be nice if possible.

Conniving_Eagle
06-12-2011, 09:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dimension3500:
Great topic with incredibly amazing ideas guys, let's try to keep it on the top of the list so UbiDevelopers can see it...
I truly hope they use some of the stuff proposed here... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you read the 'Double Counter' idea thread? It's another one that I think is truly a good idea and we're trying to keep it on the front page so ubisoft can see it, but today it's on the bottom, please check it out sometime if you haven't already.

bakerrossera
06-12-2011, 09:23 PM
keep commenting to keep it at the top!

Dimension3500
06-12-2011, 10:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dimension3500:
Great topic with incredibly amazing ideas guys, let's try to keep it on the top of the list so UbiDevelopers can see it...
I truly hope they use some of the stuff proposed here... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you read the 'Double Counter' idea thread? It's another one that I think is truly a good idea and we're trying to keep it on the front page so ubisoft can see it, but today it's on the bottom, please check it out sometime if you haven't already. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for telling me, going to check the topic right now.

iMBUE_
06-12-2011, 10:41 PM
Just continually Bump this thread and the "Double Counter" thread so they remain at the top.

Conniving_Eagle
06-12-2011, 10:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wraith_05:
Just continually Bump this thread and the "Double Counter" thread so they remain at the top. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Ubisoft is bound to read something if it gets like 5,000 views and stays at the top, and if we like it so should they.

NoCrowdedSky
06-12-2011, 11:52 PM
On a side note: i think the desmond gameplay sounds really interesting and i think it is good to add new things to the game.

lukaszep
06-13-2011, 04:05 AM
I was playing ACB yesterday and i noticed how the throwing knives have become pretty much useless and too hard to use. Even locked on the aiming was awful and i got through all 20 throwing knives on two guards and neither of them died. I remember they were one of the best tools you had in AC1, but now all you have to do is hold down a button and shoot someone in about 1 second, which isn't exactly quiet either.
Throwing knives were amazing for stealth in AC1, especially taking down guards quietly on rooftops and want them back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

k20ml
06-13-2011, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I was playing ACB yesterday and i noticed how the throwing knives have become pretty much useless and too hard to use. Even locked on the aiming was awful and i got through all 20 throwing knives on two guards and neither of them died. I remember they were one of the best tools you had in AC1, but now all you have to do is hold down a button and shoot someone in about 1 second, which isn't exactly quiet either.
Throwing knives were amazing for stealth in AC1, especially taking down guards quietly on rooftops and want them back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. All those useless equipment available doesn't quiet challenge you to be methodical in your ways as an assassin now does it?

How do you suppose we improve that? Or better yet change that?

GeneralTrumbo
06-13-2011, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
ConnivingEagle do you real think that ubisoft will read any of our threads? they want a game where everyone is able to do anything while i want a game where only skilled ppl are able to do the more effective things (fight for exemple is more effective than stealthy if you have skill at Ac1 but at Ac2 it's the same thing have or not skill, it will always be more effective)...

I won't stop spamming every thread about the game and suggestions on the features part but i really have no faith in ubisoft to make the game perfect... Another unique franchise with potential sent to the river of money making. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I am pretty sure that you and I are in a losing battle; but, I don't care. I can't give up, Assassin's Creed is my favorite franchise. But most of the things I suggest are in hopes that the game will become more fun. I don't know... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to point that Assassin's Creed is not my favorite franchise cuz it's taking away from the first game porpuse.

God Of War is my favorite franchise and it looks like it will continue to be



Also, we are not in a losing battle, we are doing a battle already lost:

Devlopers: Well, what should we do? Make a game that keep the initial goal (making a new generation of gaming) or make a game which follows the storyline of the very first games but with a gameplay adapted to every single man in the world so ******ed ppl and action-searcher ppl will buy it too and we will make money.
Ubisoft Owner: Are you ****ing kidding me? I don't care about gamers, i just want money! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ubisoft gave out free DLC content, so don't even say that they just want gamers money! &gt;:O

lukaszep
06-13-2011, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I was playing ACB yesterday and i noticed how the throwing knives have become pretty much useless and too hard to use. Even locked on the aiming was awful and i got through all 20 throwing knives on two guards and neither of them died. I remember they were one of the best tools you had in AC1, but now all you have to do is hold down a button and shoot someone in about 1 second, which isn't exactly quiet either.
Throwing knives were amazing for stealth in AC1, especially taking down guards quietly on rooftops and want them back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. All those useless equipment available doesn't quiet challenge you to be methodical in your ways as an assassin now does it?

How do you suppose we improve that? Or better yet change that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they should be made more accurate, and they should do more damage.
In terms of accuracy, i think it should be dependant on whether your in high profile or low profile, so say if your still and in low profile they will aim at a guards head so you only need to use one.
They should also do more damage on the less armoured guards, so that you only need one, a maximum of two to kill or at least injure a guard. I also think it would be useful if you could throw more than one at a time, so you could kill a group of around 4 guards quickly.

rednas3636
06-13-2011, 10:15 AM
i think we're(you're?) doing a great job in putting everything in one huge topic so ubi sees it

iN3krO
06-13-2011, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GeneralTrumbo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
ConnivingEagle do you real think that ubisoft will read any of our threads? they want a game where everyone is able to do anything while i want a game where only skilled ppl are able to do the more effective things (fight for exemple is more effective than stealthy if you have skill at Ac1 but at Ac2 it's the same thing have or not skill, it will always be more effective)...

I won't stop spamming every thread about the game and suggestions on the features part but i really have no faith in ubisoft to make the game perfect... Another unique franchise with potential sent to the river of money making. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I am pretty sure that you and I are in a losing battle; but, I don't care. I can't give up, Assassin's Creed is my favorite franchise. But most of the things I suggest are in hopes that the game will become more fun. I don't know... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to point that Assassin's Creed is not my favorite franchise cuz it's taking away from the first game porpuse.

God Of War is my favorite franchise and it looks like it will continue to be



Also, we are not in a losing battle, we are doing a battle already lost:

Devlopers: Well, what should we do? Make a game that keep the initial goal (making a new generation of gaming) or make a game which follows the storyline of the very first games but with a gameplay adapted to every single man in the world so ******ed ppl and action-searcher ppl will buy it too and we will make money.
Ubisoft Owner: Are you ****ing kidding me? I don't care about gamers, i just want money! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ubisoft gave out free DLC content, so don't even say that they just want gamers money! &gt;:O </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which one?

copernicus? it was Sony that paied copernicus to ubisoft...

da vinci pc? i think that they would need to make the game cheaper for be worth the waiting time we had -.-''

Ulicies
06-13-2011, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lukaszep:
I was playing ACB yesterday and i noticed how the throwing knives have become pretty much useless and too hard to use. Even locked on the aiming was awful and i got through all 20 throwing knives on two guards and neither of them died. I remember they were one of the best tools you had in AC1, but now all you have to do is hold down a button and shoot someone in about 1 second, which isn't exactly quiet either.
Throwing knives were amazing for stealth in AC1, especially taking down guards quietly on rooftops and want them back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. All those useless equipment available doesn't quiet challenge you to be methodical in your ways as an assassin now does it?

How do you suppose we improve that? Or better yet change that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they should be made more accurate, and they should do more damage.
In terms of accuracy, i think it should be dependant on whether your in high profile or low profile, so say if your still and in low profile they will aim at a guards head so you only need to use one.
They should also do more damage on the less armoured guards, so that you only need one, a maximum of two to kill or at least injure a guard. I also think it would be useful if you could throw more than one at a time, so you could kill a group of around 4 guards quickly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

THANK YOU. This has been a big complaint for me ever since switching over to AC2 from 1. The guards don't die in one hit, and it completely destroys the freedom you had in AC1 to combine stealth with speedy rooftop travel.

I think they need to take out all of the extra ranged weapons (except for Crossbows) and just expound on throwing knives. Include customization, so you can augment your own version to your liking. Let's say that you customize your own throwing knives so that they're much heavier to throw (Ie, slower firing rate), but that they get one-hit-kills from the guards. Or you could customize your knives to be able to throw multiple at once to multiple guards, like the above post suggested.

I think it's really important that they stop throwing more useless equipment in the game and start expounding on the original ideas that made the franchise great. Customizing bombs is a good start. They should let you customize bombs and knives, then move on to a robust hidden blade customization. Let's say that you customize the hidden blade to accommodate special attributes like poison. With this, you would have to trade off using the hidden blade in combat(except for countering, of course. Just no blocking or attacking), as the blade is now hollow, and more fragile. On the flip side, you could add a much longer blade for the hidden blade to make it more effective in combat, while trading out extra abilities like poison or a gun.

I think it's also very important that they integrate more of the gadgets that you have into combat. AC1 did this very well with the short blade, combining the short blade with throwing knives. I remember a squad of guards that rushed me one time: I switched to my short blade, took out the farthest one with the throwing knife, then turned on the guard behind me and seamlessly attacked him with the short blade.

With that example, I would love to see more integration with gadgets and weaponry.

iMBUE_
06-13-2011, 11:12 AM
You can kill people with throwing knives AND short blade.

I was trying out the VT and using the short blade; Ezio stabbed one guy turned around, threw a knife, then ripped the short blade out of the original guy.

EDIT: Just tried it out again in VT and was successful. Did it twice in a row, and it was sexy. If you play on PC, you have to hold Left Click while combo-countering to perform the sweet short blade/throwing knife combo.

Ulicies
06-13-2011, 11:24 AM
And another thing about ranged weapons: They've become a pain to replenish.

Back in AC2, now that it takes twice as much ammo to kill guards, you have the need to refill your ammo supplies twice as fast.

Back in AC1, you could quickly take a couple seconds to scour the streets, spot a mercenary, swoop to the ground, pickpocket, and quickly jump right back up to the buildings.

But in AC2, depending on where you are, you have to completely backtrack just to travel to a shop and buy the ammo. Sometimes a shop will be in between where you are and where you want to go, but this has rarely happened for me. Over all, AC2's ammo system has been much more disruptive to the flow of stealthy rooftop travel.

I think they should bring back the ability to replenish ammo by quickly looting something that's littered all throughout the open world. It doesn't have to be a person, like in AC1. It could vary from barrels, crates, or merchant carts, to shops or stables.

That way, your rooftop travel wouldn't be hindered by "Hm, I need to go to X, but I only have 5 knives left. Looks like I'm gonna have to pay a trip to the shopkeeper across the map."
Instead, you could travel across the world, not worried about ammo, because you could just take a quick look around the map as you travel, find a quick barrel or cart, swoop down and restock, and "fly" away.

EDIT: @Wraith_05: I've never purchased ACB, so my complaints are aimed toward AC2. If you can do that in ACB, I'm very pleased, but I would definitely love to see further weapon and gadget integration for combat.

iMBUE_
06-13-2011, 11:40 AM
There are loading screen tips that tell you how to do these unique "kill shots."

Just as the short blade/throwing knife combo, you can also utilize the sword/pistol combo. It's done the same way.

lukaszep
06-13-2011, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">QUOTE]

THANK YOU. This has been a big complaint for me ever since switching over to AC2 from 1. The guards don't die in one hit, and it completely destroys the freedom you had in AC1 to combine stealth with speedy rooftop travel.

I think they need to take out all of the extra ranged weapons (except for Crossbows) and just expound on throwing knives. Include customization, so you can augment your own version to your liking. Let's say that you customize your own throwing knives so that they're much heavier to throw (Ie, slower firing rate), but that they get one-hit-kills from the guards. Or you could customize your knives to be able to throw multiple at once to multiple guards, like the above post suggested.

I think it's really important that they stop throwing more useless equipment in the game and start expounding on the original ideas that made the franchise great. Customizing bombs is a good start. They should let you customize bombs and knives, then move on to a robust hidden blade customization. Let's say that you customize the hidden blade to accommodate special attributes like poison. With this, you would have to trade off using the hidden blade in combat(except for countering, of course. Just no blocking or attacking), as the blade is now hollow, and more fragile. On the flip side, you could add a much longer blade for the hidden blade to make it more effective in combat, while trading out extra abilities like poison or a gun.

I think it's also very important that they integrate more of the gadgets that you have into combat. AC1 did this very well with the short blade, combining the short blade with throwing knives. I remember a squad of guards that rushed me one time: I switched to my short blade, took out the farthest one with the throwing knife, then turned on the guard behind me and seamlessly attacked him with the short blade.

With that example, I would love to see more integration with gadgets and weaponry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like like like like like like.
Anyway that thing where you stab a guard then throw a knife at a second guard never kills the second guard. Not for me anyway. Also, when using the knife, you can hold down square to throw a throwing knife but this never works properly, i'm not sure if it's just me, so i would like to be able to tap x as the seconday instead of holding a button down.
I'm going to double check this in a minute but yesterday i was at the edge of a roof and locked onto a guard, and opened the weapon wheel and it wouldn't let me use the throwing knives. Ridiculous right?

Ulicies
06-13-2011, 12:06 PM
A very big problem that I had with the throwing knife system in AC2 was that they took out the ability to quickly press on the D-Pad to switch to them. It not only disrupts the flow of the gameplay, but the diagonal places on the wheel are hard to switch to in a rushed fashion, slowing down the flow of gameplay to a frustrating level.


Now killing guards with throwing knives is a complete chore. I really really want them to put a speedy ranged weapon back on one of the main D-Pad buttons.

EDIT: Better yet, let us CUSTOMIZE the Weapon Wheel to our liking! That way, the individual could cater the D-Pad to their needs, like putting the money-throwing option on the D-Pad, or the throwing knives.

Sackprince
06-13-2011, 12:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
A very big problem that I had with the throwing knife system in AC2 was that they took out the ability to quickly press on the D-Pad to switch to them. It not only disrupts the flow of the gameplay, but the diagonal places on the wheel are hard to switch to in a rushed fashion, slowing down the flow of gameplay to a frustrating level.



Now killing guards with throwing knives is a complete chore. I really really want them to put a speedy ranged weapon back on one of the main D-Pad buttons.

EDIT: Better yet, let us CUSTOMIZE the Weapon Wheel to our liking! That way, the individual could cater the D-Pad to their needs, like putting the money-throwing option on the D-Pad, or the throwing knives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


you can already customize the weapon wheel. and to the other guy about that its hard to get ammo just steal from dead guards.

Ulicies
06-13-2011, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sackprince:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
A very big problem that I had with the throwing knife system in AC2 was that they took out the ability to quickly press on the D-Pad to switch to them. It not only disrupts the flow of the gameplay, but the diagonal places on the wheel are hard to switch to in a rushed fashion, slowing down the flow of gameplay to a frustrating level.



Now killing guards with throwing knives is a complete chore. I really really want them to put a speedy ranged weapon back on one of the main D-Pad buttons.

EDIT: Better yet, let us CUSTOMIZE the Weapon Wheel to our liking! That way, the individual could cater the D-Pad to their needs, like putting the money-throwing option on the D-Pad, or the throwing knives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


you can already customize the weapon wheel. and to the other guy about that its hard to get ammo just steal from dead guards. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never played ACB, so my complaints are geared toward AC2. If you can customize the weapon wheel in ACB, then great! But AC2's problem with carving dead bodies was that you only had a small chance of carving knives, and even if you did, you only got one single knife, when it took two knives to kill (assuming that you didn't miss at all while aiming at running enemies).

Combined with that, sometimes there are guards across the street, or across buildings such that you would just want to quickly dispatch them and move on without trudging all the way over to the dead body. On top of that, AC2 guards had a bad habit of falling off the roof to the ground floor when you would throw knives at them.

And even if you had a guaranteed 2 knife replenish from every body carve, it would be quite annoying to hunt down every corpse. Every 1 out of 2 guards that I encounter on the rooftops are out of my way, and if I took the time to get to every single corpse, it would take me WAY longer to reach my destination.

SoleDoor3
06-13-2011, 01:33 PM
Hello! Totally new to the forums so I am still trying to learn how to use everything on here.

-Advocate stealthy gameplay more. I'm not saying make it Splinter Cell, just add more stealthy missions.
-Bring back a large variety of un-scripted assassination sequences.
-Some scripted assassination sequences are okay and sometimes even cool, but players prefer unscripted assassination sequences.
-Disable health regeneration that prevents desynchronization while in combat.
-Never try to make two missions the same, even if they are something simple like looting someone, or retrieving an artifact.
-Make sidemissions a little more interesting by adding mini-storylines to atleast 60-75% of them.
-Try to expand on the Eagle Sense idea.
-Create assassination sequences that have various ways to kill your target, adding replay value.
-Missions to obtain information are great. They made the story alot more exciting. However, bringing back an occasional mission invovling obtaining information the way you did in AC1 would be great.
-New assassination techniques/animations
-Expand the notoriety idea: Try to make the entire social pyramid interact more with your notoriety level, not just guards. Maybe with Eagle sense?

1. I can agree with that, though while ACB was still a great game on its own merits some of the assassinations could have had a more stealthy feel to it.

2. Agreed completely.

3. Depends on player preference I would think.

4. Again I think that depends on player preference, maybe put it in the option menu?

5. I agree. Replaying the same thing over and over again every time gets repetitive and ultimatly boring.

6. Correct me if I am wrong but I remember hearing side missions for ACR have been scrapped for realtime events like a store owner getting robbed and such so I think the randomness should be pretty cool!

7. In the gameplay demo it was hardly shown so I think we will all just have to wait and see.

8. Maybe for Altair again depending on what years of his life are explored but never for Ezio. It was not needed in AC2 or ACB so I personally would not see the point of adding it for Ezio in ACR plus he is the grand master of the order so from a storyline prespective it would not make a whole lot of sense.

9. That is always welcome though I think the hookblade could potentially see that through =)

10. Thats true. I think it could easily be expanded upon in ways like maybe shop owners reacting differently or civilians reacting to your notoriety level, Perhaps for example if its really high and your wandering the streets they could rat you out to the guards or something.

Good post overall btw!

iN3krO
06-13-2011, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SoleDoor3:

9. That is always welcome though I think the hookblade could potentially see that through =)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't like the idea of using the hookblade for combat :S i just assassin's creed animations ar perfect and realistic.. maybe the double counter idea is the only thing missing.

SoleDoor3
06-13-2011, 02:52 PM
I will admit I was a little skeptical on the hookblade when I first saw it. Looks like a great climbing tool which I have no doubt will come in handy, but I was skeptical about its combat uses. Then again it could open up new possibilites as to combat techniques in ACR which could come out looking pretty cool though I think its still a little to early to say.

However concerning the animations I respect your opinion and certainly your right to your opinion though I find myself in disagreement. I thought that most of the animations were really well done though some seemed a little off to me. Like the combat animations I thought they were good but some of the free running was iffy.

Though I think if ubisoft used motion capture equipment for the animations and whatnot that would be pretty neat.

lukaszep
06-13-2011, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SoleDoor3:
I will admit I was a little skeptical on the hookblade when I first saw it. Looks like a great climbing tool which I have no doubt will come in handy, but I was skeptical about its combat uses. Then again it could open up new possibilites as to combat techniques in ACR which could come out looking pretty cool though I think its still a little to early to say.

However concerning the animations I respect your opinion and certainly your right to your opinion though I find myself in disagreement. I thought that most of the animations were really well done though some seemed a little off to me. Like the combat animations I thought they were good but some of the free running was iffy.

Though I think if ubisoft used motion capture equipment for the animations and whatnot that would be pretty neat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree they should invest in motion capture. EDIT: They just did (http://www.ubiworkshop.com) They also need to add wallrun, seriously! And vault, i'm sick of having to hop on top of a low fence to get over it.

ElDoucherino
06-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Okay, I've just register an account here but I've been farelly active in reading what you guys have said here and some of you have some valid concerns about the series.

First off, i think it is a bit silly comparing the very first AC game with the later as they should stand by themself. The first was great storywise. Our knowledge about the ungoing struggle between the assassins and the templars was unsufficient but we learned a great deal about it. With that said, we couldn't be as suprised as we were with the first installment with the second one as the mystique that was the war was already reveled for us with the first game.

But what AC2 lacked storywise (which isn't my opinion but i see that many of you think so) it gained with more features that polished what had to be polished from the first one. But some parts were polished for the worse in my opinion.

What I would like to se is when it comes to the assassination part of the game is:
* Why not have a larger area where you have to be stealthy? In that way you have to scout, maybe before which parts of the city that are less guarded and so.

* The choice to turn of wheter or not you would like to see your enemeis as red dots on the mini map. Make it a option of players, and at least if you still have it make that you first have to spot your enemies, as you did in first games where the enemies would have a red glow over them after spotting them with the eagle vision.

* An idea that already has been brought up but regarding notoriety. Why not increase the level of recognizion in those parts of the city where you have been "spotted"? That area should be harder to go on thru without being detected for a time after your notoriet have dropped to zero. And i like the idea of people recoginizing you and alerting guards and others. Like a wildfire.

* Reward stealth rather than shuvin' it down casual players. Enemies will be harder to fight of and I like what they had in the first game were you would alert guards until you got to the safehouse.

Okay, I might come up with other ideas that are more unique but this will work for now.

Conniving_Eagle
06-13-2011, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Shanki_86:

* An idea that already has been brought up but regarding notoriety. Why not increase the level of recognizion in those parts of the city where you have been "spotted"? That area should be harder to go on thru without being detected for a time after your notoriet have dropped to zero. And i like the idea of people recoginizing you and alerting guards and others. Like a wildfire.

I think there should be certain citizens that could report you. And this is how they can expand upon eagle sense. You can sense that they fear you and you must either kill them or avoid them. If you disagree that you shouldn't be able to kill them look back at what Altair did. He assassinated the heralds after he interrigated them. Why? Because they were a liability. Letting them live would possible compromise the brotherhood, which is a more important tenant than killing an innocent.

ElDoucherino
06-14-2011, 04:51 AM
I'm sorry but i have to disagree with you there, but it's a valid point you have. Me personally sees a difference between those heralds from the first game as they were in general bad person with regular unaware citizens just living their lives. But the sense idea that you are talking about, sensing what people think of you and what not, should be more of a factor with later installments, maybe not with ACR as it is near completion but i would like to se that implemented in AC3.

Not having the oppotunity to kill these civilians will increase the level of difficulty as you have to circumvent these parts of the city and find another route to your goal. Or you could be a daredevil.

k20ml
06-14-2011, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shanki_86:

* The choice to turn of wheter or not you would like to see your enemeis as red dots on the mini map. Make it a option of players, and at least if you still have it make that you first have to spot your enemies, as you did in first games where the enemies would have a red glow over them after spotting them with the eagle vision.

* An idea that already has been brought up but regarding notoriety. Why not increase the level of recognizion in those parts of the city where you have been "spotted"? That area should be harder to go on thru without being detected for a time after your notoriet have dropped to zero. And i like the idea of people recoginizing you and alerting guards and others. Like a wildfire.

Okay, I might come up with other ideas that are more unique but this will work for now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like these two. Especially the second one. Remember ConnivingEagles' response to you about the second one? I posted something in this thread concerning notoriety and that also includes civilians. I never thought of this idea before but it would go great with mine.

Read it if you want. Somewhere around Page 2. I like how you thought of that. So cool. It automatically provides players different ways of play styles. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

And the first one, I so agree with it. It is an option for us to challenge ourselves even more. Although in AC 1, this was not fully developed and it was so meticulous to use the eagle vision.

ElDoucherino
06-14-2011, 02:56 PM
I know that Ubisoft is making Eagle Vision (or sense at it is called now) a bigger part of the gameplay with ACR. My question is why now? The Eagle Vision was a briliant mechanic but i feel that they sidesteped it in AC2 and Brotherhood. It should always be used in missions, in some sense. And not only to spot the bad guys and the target.

I don't remember what game it was now but it has been done before, the red dot appears on the map when your spot them gameplay. Gawh, now i'm gonna sit up all night tryin' to figure out what game it was. It is....no...not yet.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Conniving_Eagle
06-14-2011, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shanki_86:
I'm sorry but i have to disagree with you there, but it's a valid point you have. Me personally sees a difference between those heralds from the first game as they were in general bad person with regular unaware citizens just living their lives. But the sense idea that you are talking about, sensing what people think of you and what not, should be more of a factor with later installments, maybe not with ACR as it is near completion but i would like to se that implemented in AC3.

Not having the oppotunity to kill these civilians will increase the level of difficulty as you have to circumvent these parts of the city and find another route to your goal. Or you could be a daredevil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldn't be realistic, Maybe you could bribe them, but if this was a real scenario, a civillian that was trying to blow an assassin's cover would be killed. What about the bonfire of the vanities dlc? Those civillians were being assassinated. Not killing innocents is the least important tenant. If anything, it should be avoided, not compromising the brotherhood is the most important. The life of an assassin is worth more than the life of a civillian in the eyes of the creed.

acjake
06-14-2011, 06:35 PM
EDIT: I am reposting this because I made a thread with a poll and it was closed...and I don't know how to create a poll within a thread...anyway heres my idea. If you want to vote just search for the original thread "Black Market Idea & Poll" Thanks

In ac2 a new feature to the ac series was an in-game economy...this feature was amazing and adding depth to the game. The economy was expanded a bit in acb but nothing extremely innovative. Ubisoft should add another layer to the economy The Black Market. The black market would tie into the whole idea of underground factions and generally an underworld.

Basically the black market will carry things you can't access regularly. For example you can buy maps at the art merchant...but say you went to a black market merchant that delt with city maps and intel about people...you would gain the trust of the black market merchant by doing a task for him or her. An example of a task could be...the black market merchant has a sick family member...and you have to find medicine by completing a risky mission and locating it in a heavily protected restricted area. To win over the trust of a black market merchant you would have to complete a risky task. Once the task is completed the black market merchant provided you with ...for example a map of a landmark and all known entrances this would open up how missions get done giving an more open world feel and in a way bringing back ac1's investigative elements. Say you wanted more info you went to a black market merchant and completed a task for him/her and learned that your target has beat up his/her butler or servant... the servant now wants to get back and will assist you by letting you in a restricted area...after learning this info you can still choose to do the mission directly or by using stealth. Lastly say you acquire a map of a landmark you the character can physically use it in game pull it out anytime put X's on the map and plan out a strategy (maybe place your novices where the X's are).

the possibilities are endless you could have black market merchants for gadgets and tools, intel and maps, clothing, pretty much anything...remember the black market merchant would not replace the regular shops...because the black market merchants don't really exist. The black market merchants could even turn on you if your notorious and send you on a mission where you get trapped and have to escape.

This all sounded great in my head...it was hard to put it into words lol.

Let me know what you think and add ideas.

Conniving_Eagle
06-14-2011, 07:12 PM
@ackjake

Actually, I think I'll post that this week. I really like that idea, and it could really expand the possibilities of unscripted assassinations. There would even have to be different cutscenes depending on what you do. Could you tell me a little more about it? Like what else would they sell besides maps or sometimes information? The Black Market is also illegal, keep that in mind for your idea.

xx-pyro
06-14-2011, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
@ackjake

Actually, I think I'll post that this week. I really like that idea, and it could really expand the possibilities of unscripted assassinations. There would even have to be different cutscenes depending on what you do. Could you tell me a little more about it? Like what else would they sell besides maps or sometimes information? The Black Market is also illegal, keep that in mind for your idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With over 300 types of bombs I'd say the stronger ones could be Black Market only.

Conniving_Eagle
06-14-2011, 07:51 PM
Yeah, that's a good thought. Maybe Black Markets could also be in restricted areas or something. Something that would make guards suspicious of you as they usually sell illegal things.

acjake
06-14-2011, 08:19 PM
^ Yeah good point...black markets could be located by using eagle sense...they could be anywhere from random houses/buildings while making your way through a city...or underground. Maybe even a secret location full of black markets that sell intel, clothes, tools, gadgets, maps.

For example in present day you are allowed fireworks only on special holidays...maybe there were certain rules or laws like that in the past (we only saw fireworks in ac2 during the carnival)...so you go to a black market merchant to purchase a firework use it stealthy to create a distraction and complete a task unnoticed

Conniving_Eagle
06-14-2011, 08:24 PM
Oh also, they have an underground city in ACR that's run entirely by Templars, which means they will see you almost always if they spot you. I think if they make it so that you're constantly notorious in that city it could house alot of Black market shops. I like the idea of once you earn a certain merchants trust he will open-up his black market where he can sell illegal goods to you.

acjake
06-14-2011, 08:32 PM
and sort of like how you can lose assassin's dens...maybe the black market merchant stops trusting you and report you?

after all these merchants aren't as well established as regular shops so they can't always be trusted...unlike a regular non black market tailor for example that is trust worthy and everyone can buy from him. I just think black markets will add a dynamic and risky feel to AC and add variety to the in-game economy

Conniving_Eagle
06-14-2011, 08:49 PM
I like it, I'll make sure to add it to the list in the coming days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

villy23
06-14-2011, 10:16 PM
I have been reading this topic and points for a while and i do agree that there needs to be more flexibility in the missions, the whole issue of stealthy gameplay isn't likely to be solved in ACR. The way that Altair was raised and his personality were what made him follow the creed so closely but ezio is a very different person and it seems to me that ubisoft have tailored ezio's character to make the game more action packed. This is why i am hoping that in AC3 when we get a French assassin (thats where it will be in my opinion) who is more quiet and conservative and was born an assassin. If he is another firey hothead we definately won't have much stealth. Don't get me wrong i liked ACB but it was really easy and not very stealthy and i don't expect too much of ACR in terms of that. The assassin's dens idea sounds really cool to me though, i thought borgia towers were one of the best parts of ACB.

k20ml
06-14-2011, 10:37 PM
SUPER! BLACK MARKET IDEA IS AMAZING! Why would mods close it? Anyway.

How about in the black market, you can trade your assassins so as to create variety in your guild. If you don't want to recruit, you just want to trade this mid ranking assassin for another one, that you need, from a different assassin hideout instantly instead of training that a new recruit to serve what you need. Like for example, you encounter a mission where you need a sharpshooter assassin, it takes like 2 hours to train a recruit to become a sharpshooter. Instead you trade an assassin with the same rank, who you do not need, for a sharpshooter. ARRGHH!! So hard to put thoughts into words without hand gestures! (I'm not exactly rooting for this idea ^^^)

How about different outfits sold or rented in the black market that affects gameplay. Like let's say, you can buy maps of a restricted location for cheaper price, which is harder for you because you would have to do all these parkour/sneaking in stuff, but you want to make it easier for you so you rent a certain outfit similar to the guards which allows you to blend it quiet easily for a limited time(more/enough to finish the mission) . But you wouldn't want to waste time. Afterwards, you can buy it if you wish or not.

About the bombs...300 types, I personally can't think of more than at least 7 types. Destructive bombs/explosives, area effect bombs, area effect/chronic bombs, diversions, smoke bombs, stunning bombs, are they sure 300? Probably the last ones would explode with confetti all over the place or cheese, or pasta.

NoCrowdedSky
06-15-2011, 05:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
SUPER! BLACK MARKET IDEA IS AMAZING! Why would mods close it? Anyway.

How about in the black market, you can trade your assassins so as to create variety in your guild. If you don't want to recruit, you just want to trade this mid ranking assassin for another one, that you need, from a different assassin hideout instantly instead of training that a new recruit to serve what you need. Like for example, you encounter a mission where you need a sharpshooter assassin, it takes like 2 hours to train a recruit to become a sharpshooter. Instead you trade an assassin with the same rank, who you do not need, for a sharpshooter. ARRGHH!! So hard to put thoughts into words without hand gestures! (I'm not exactly rooting for this idea ^^^)

How about different outfits sold or rented in the black market that affects gameplay. Like let's say, you can buy maps of a restricted location for cheaper price, which is harder for you because you would have to do all these parkour/sneaking in stuff, but you want to make it easier for you so you rent a certain outfit similar to the guards which allows you to blend it quiet easily for a limited time(more/enough to finish the mission) . But you wouldn't want to waste time. Afterwards, you can buy it if you wish or not.

About the bombs...300 types, I personally can't think of more than at least 7 types. Destructive bombs/explosives, area effect bombs, area effect/chronic bombs, diversions, smoke bombs, stunning bombs, are they sure 300? Probably the last ones would explode with confetti all over the place or cheese, or pasta. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

K20ML, the top half of your response sounds like your talking about a slave trade which wont go down well with anyone, so you may want to look at that, however diffrent outfits do sound cool and would be something i would use. I'm in the same boat about the bombs aswell i think we will find 3-4 good ones and only use those depending on how the system works

Conniving_Eagle
06-15-2011, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villy23:
I have been reading this topic and points for a while and i do agree that there needs to be more flexibility in the missions, the whole issue of stealthy gameplay isn't likely to be solved in ACR. The way that Altair was raised and his personality were what made him follow the creed so closely but ezio is a very different person and it seems to me that ubisoft have tailored ezio's character to make the game more action packed. This is why i am hoping that in AC3 when we get a French assassin (thats where it will be in my opinion) who is more quiet and conservative and was born an assassin. If he is another firey hothead we definately won't have much stealth. Don't get me wrong i liked ACB but it was really easy and not very stealthy and i don't expect too much of ACR in terms of that. The assassin's dens idea sounds really cool to me though, i thought borgia towers were one of the best parts of ACB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, at first I thought it would be in France too. But then when I began to think about it, all of the Assassin's are Desmond's ancestor and they all look like him. Also, they use the same face actor for all of them. Desmond is tan, and there's not too many tan/mediterranean looking people in France. I will admit it would be very cool, but I think they might do something like Spain. I would very much enjoy AC3 in France, though; Paris, Orleans, Montreal, Marseille, Corsica, all of them would be very cool.

k20ml
06-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Wall run should be incorporated. I don't want to grab onto the ledge and hang there for a second waiting for Ezio to pull himself up. Just wall run across the gap(if walls are present) then land like a precision(if you do parkour you know what I mean).

PhiIs1618033
06-16-2011, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
Wall run should be incorporated. I don't want to grab onto the ledge and hang there for a second waiting for Ezio to pull himself up. Just wall run across the gap(if walls are present) then land like a precision(if you do parkour you know what I mean). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I assume by wallrun you mean tic-tac? Because wallruns are already in the game.

k20ml
06-16-2011, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
Wall run should be incorporated. I don't want to grab onto the ledge and hang there for a second waiting for Ezio to pull himself up. Just wall run across the gap(if walls are present) then land like a precision(if you do parkour you know what I mean). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I assume by wallrun you mean tic-tac? Because wallruns are already in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you do personally practice parkour? If so, then Hello my fellow traceur and/or freerunner! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif If not then, you should try it!

Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0NOE4N6X4 -this is my definition of wall run. If this is also the exact definition of tic tac from where you're from, then yeah, I would like this to be in the game.

lukaszep
06-16-2011, 11:44 AM
That ^ youtube video ^ was what i meant by wall run.
But yeah the only thing they haven't changed throughout the games is the parkour, apart from adding the climb leap. It needs to be more fluid in my opinion. Also i don't like how the analog stick isn't very precise with it, and you tend to be pushed towards an object the game wants you to jump on. Does anyone understand what i mean by that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif If you do, then, do you agree it makes the parkour awkward at times?

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 01:42 PM
They could do alot more than just wall-run. There are alot more tricks in Parkour than just the wall-run. Also, I've seen some free-runners climb buildings faster than Ezio, too. So maybe in AC3 they can improve or maybe even revolutionize free-running, but I don't see them doing it in this game.

iN3krO
06-16-2011, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villy23:
I have been reading this topic and points for a while and i do agree that there needs to be more flexibility in the missions, the whole issue of stealthy gameplay isn't likely to be solved in ACR. The way that Altair was raised and his personality were what made him follow the creed so closely but ezio is a very different person and it seems to me that ubisoft have tailored ezio's character to make the game more action packed. This is why i am hoping that in AC3 when we get a French assassin (thats where it will be in my opinion) who is more quiet and conservative and was born an assassin. If he is another firey hothead we definately won't have much stealth. Don't get me wrong i liked ACB but it was really easy and not very stealthy and i don't expect too much of ACR in terms of that. The assassin's dens idea sounds really cool to me though, i thought borgia towers were one of the best parts of ACB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loool, what made altair follow the creed was that the players are more common to be noobs and the combat with counter-attacks only would take more time than being stealthy so they would be stealthy and follow the creed.

Unlike in Ac2/B where you are a Walking Tank (or a Badass as ppl says)... In Ac2/B you need no skill to be faster combating than avoiding the guards so you are more likely to kill all the guards than being stealthy.

Altair was not badass, the skilled player playing him are badasses (speeling error?).

For the missions, i would say that if the missions in Ac2/b weren't scripted ppl would not follow the creed like they do with scripted missions, but if the missions were not scripted and the combat was harder, the noobs would all follow the creed and the skilled ppl would chose to follow or not the creed (remember altair at the very first mission? he was skilled so he choised to not follow the creed, but he wasn't skilled enough and failed... than he became wiser and decided to follow the creed even thought he is skilled enought to don't. The skilled players would being wise and follow the creed or being rudes and not follow the creed)

I think that the exemple of altair following (or not) the creed in Ac1 makes it easy or you to understand what i meant :P

PhiIs1618033
06-16-2011, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
Wall run should be incorporated. I don't want to grab onto the ledge and hang there for a second waiting for Ezio to pull himself up. Just wall run across the gap(if walls are present) then land like a precision(if you do parkour you know what I mean). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I assume by wallrun you mean tic-tac? Because wallruns are already in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you do personally practice parkour? If so, then Hello my fellow traceur and/or freerunner! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif If not then, you should try it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd like to get into it, but none of my friends are that interested. I also pretty much haven't got any proper strength in my arms. Working on that, though.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0NOE4N6X4 -this is my definition of wall run. If this is also the exact definition of tic tac from where you're from, then yeah, I would like this to be in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a wallrun, alright. :P A tic-tac is a wallrun composed of just one step, so a way to control the time in the wallrun would add this move as well.
So, yeah, add the wallrun and we've automatically got the tic-tac covered.

Also, dropping of roofs easily, like the high-profile grab trick in AC1. That would be nice. Vaults would also be nice.

acjake
06-16-2011, 02:48 PM
@ConnivingEagle

hey if you wouldn't mind adding some of these ideas to your compilation, that would be great ...maybe more people will vote. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/2661041139 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2661041139)

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 02:55 PM
You added your own thread didn't you? Well, I'm kind of lazy. But I promise it will be there by Sunday.

acjake
06-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

k20ml
06-16-2011, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There are alot more tricks in Parkour than just the wall-run </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes that is true. And yes, they should revolutionize the practical application of parkour in this game. With the addition of wallrun to the game, navigation would be even better. For example, the assassin needs to get on top of the building with a gap from a ledge. There is a wall that connects the two. The assassin would perform a wallrun on the wall that connect the building and the ledge the assassin is on then grab the top and pull himself up.

Yes, that would be great. At least I think it would. Plus, probably in the next AC game, there wouldn't be a chance for you to use ziplines.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Vaults would also be nice </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like hold-release-hold the leg button would command the assassin to do a speed vault rather than stepping on the platform then jump. Or hold-release-hold the leg button would command the assassin to kong vault over the the fence then precision to the next platform.

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 03:51 PM
Yes, I am going to make a thread similar to this one after the release of Revelations(in 2012, most likely). Wall-running could be very useful in two situations. If you need to get to a certain area or you are chasing a target and hostile guards are guarding the path, ready to strike you with their swords, you can wall-run over them and then jump past them. Revolutionizing parkour would require a new game engine, because they would have to rework the whole analog stick contextual system structure. As it stands now, sometimes even pushing against a wall a little bit while in freerun will cause you to begin to scale it. They would need to make it so if you are slightly against the wall you could perform wall-run. Or something like that.

As for vaulting, that's easy. You could kong-vault through windows and other small entrances. As for regular vaulting, they would have to intertwine that somehow with the standard precision jumping in free-run. Again, revolutionizing Parkour would need a whole new engine, which is why they won't do it in ACR.

PhiIs1618033
06-16-2011, 03:53 PM
What about the free-hand button? That isn't used during freerunning, except for bashing people out of your way.
For instance, your example of kong to precision. The combination for that would be (from a running start) free hand (release legs), tap legs. So the first command commands the assassin to do a kong vault, then the tapping legs makes him jump, doing the precision.
I'm not sure whether different vaults need different button combinations.

Thug-U
06-16-2011, 03:54 PM
Adding the ability to Wall-run would do nothing but make Assassin's Creed more similar to Prince of Persia.

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 04:04 PM
Prince of Persia is not the only game with the ability to Wall-run in it.

Phil, take it to Ubisoft, I'm not a button re-mapping expert, and this sounds very confusing on paper after reading it the first time.

Thug-U
06-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Prince of Persia is the only game from Ubisoft that gives you the ability to wall-run.

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
So? There's other games that allow you to do it as well. Like Mirror's Edge and the Matrix.

iN3krO
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
i'm on for wallrun, but agiles should be able to do it :P

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
I think agiles can do every form of Parkour that the assassin's can. Physically fit Templars should be able to do it as well.

iN3krO
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
I think agiles can do every form of Parkour that the assassin's can. Physically fit Templars should be able to do it as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

chases with wallruning combo-ing with some jumps and a better parkour-style (instead of getting on a box, jump over it) would be wonderfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

After that, i would only ask for a first person for when i'm not in combat xD

ShaneO7K
06-16-2011, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villy23:
I have been reading this topic and points for a while and i do agree that there needs to be more flexibility in the missions, the whole issue of stealthy gameplay isn't likely to be solved in ACR. The way that Altair was raised and his personality were what made him follow the creed so closely but ezio is a very different person and it seems to me that ubisoft have tailored ezio's character to make the game more action packed. This is why i am hoping that in AC3 when we get a French assassin (thats where it will be in my opinion) who is more quiet and conservative and was born an assassin. If he is another firey hothead we definately won't have much stealth. Don't get me wrong i liked ACB but it was really easy and not very stealthy and i don't expect too much of ACR in terms of that. The assassin's dens idea sounds really cool to me though, i thought borgia towers were one of the best parts of ACB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loool, what made altair follow the creed was that the players are more common to be noobs and the combat with counter-attacks only would take more time than being stealthy so they would be stealthy and follow the creed.

Unlike in Ac2/B where you are a Walking Tank (or a Badass as ppl says)... In Ac2/B you need no skill to be faster combating than avoiding the guards so you are more likely to kill all the guards than being stealthy.

Altair was not badass, the skilled player playing him are badasses (speeling error?).

For the missions, i would say that if the missions in Ac2/b weren't scripted ppl would not follow the creed like they do with scripted missions, but if the missions were not scripted and the combat was harder, the noobs would all follow the creed and the skilled ppl would chose to follow or not the creed (remember altair at the very first mission? he was skilled so he choised to not follow the creed, but he wasn't skilled enough and failed... than he became wiser and decided to follow the creed even thought he is skilled enought to don't. The skilled players would being wise and follow the creed or being rudes and not follow the creed)

I think that the exemple of altair following (or not) the creed in Ac1 makes it easy or you to understand what i meant :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Altair was raised to follow the creed and where AC1 starts he is at a point where he thinks he is above the creed and is better than it.

It wouldn't have helped Altair at all if we were allowed to go killing the innocent when apart of the story was to watch Altair grow as a character because he does things right.

I definetly wouldn't say AC1 requires "skill", just today when going into Jerusalem I got the group of about 15 or so guards and brought them to the gate guards and just held in the deflect button and did so for about 5 minutes without being hit. Then I brought the guards back over to the original spot where the guards spawned again, deflected for a while again still not being hit and then just went and attacked them in no time at all. It doesn't take "skill" to make Altair look badass, he does that fine by himself.

Conniving_Eagle
06-16-2011, 05:44 PM
@dead_gunner

Have you read my thread about combat? In one of the earlier comments we talk about how else combat can be improved. I suggest reading it.

ShaneO7K
06-16-2011, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
@dead_gunner

Have you read my thread about combat? In one of the earlier comments we talk about how else combat can be improved. I suggest reading it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> What I was saying was in response to what the other guy said, not to the thread in general.

PhiIs1618033
06-17-2011, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
Altair was raised to follow the creed and where AC1 starts he is at a point where he thinks he is above the creed and is better than it.

It wouldn't have helped Altair at all if we were allowed to go killing the innocent when apart of the story was to watch Altair grow as a character because he does things right.

I definetly wouldn't say AC1 requires "skill", just today when going into Jerusalem I got the group of about 15 or so guards and brought them to the gate guards and just held in the deflect button and did so for about 5 minutes without being hit. Then I brought the guards back over to the original spot where the guards spawned again, deflected for a while again still not being hit and then just went and attacked them in no time at all. It doesn't take "skill" to make Altair look badass, he does that fine by himself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At what moment in the game did you do this? Because after memory block three, things aren't that easy anymore.

ShaneO7K
06-17-2011, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
Altair was raised to follow the creed and where AC1 starts he is at a point where he thinks he is above the creed and is better than it.

It wouldn't have helped Altair at all if we were allowed to go killing the innocent when apart of the story was to watch Altair grow as a character because he does things right.

I definetly wouldn't say AC1 requires "skill", just today when going into Jerusalem I got the group of about 15 or so guards and brought them to the gate guards and just held in the deflect button and did so for about 5 minutes without being hit. Then I brought the guards back over to the original spot where the guards spawned again, deflected for a while again still not being hit and then just went and attacked them in no time at all. It doesn't take "skill" to make Altair look badass, he does that fine by himself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At what moment in the game did you do this? Because after memory block three, things aren't that easy anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Memory Block 4, try it yourself it's not a hard thing to do.

Conniving_Eagle
06-17-2011, 05:16 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif Quote me, I dare you!

iN3krO
06-17-2011, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dead_gunner187:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villy23:
I have been reading this topic and points for a while and i do agree that there needs to be more flexibility in the missions, the whole issue of stealthy gameplay isn't likely to be solved in ACR. The way that Altair was raised and his personality were what made him follow the creed so closely but ezio is a very different person and it seems to me that ubisoft have tailored ezio's character to make the game more action packed. This is why i am hoping that in AC3 when we get a French assassin (thats where it will be in my opinion) who is more quiet and conservative and was born an assassin. If he is another firey hothead we definately won't have much stealth. Don't get me wrong i liked ACB but it was really easy and not very stealthy and i don't expect too much of ACR in terms of that. The assassin's dens idea sounds really cool to me though, i thought borgia towers were one of the best parts of ACB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loool, what made altair follow the creed was that the players are more common to be noobs and the combat with counter-attacks only would take more time than being stealthy so they would be stealthy and follow the creed.

Unlike in Ac2/B where you are a Walking Tank (or a Badass as ppl says)... In Ac2/B you need no skill to be faster combating than avoiding the guards so you are more likely to kill all the guards than being stealthy.

Altair was not badass, the skilled player playing him are badasses (speeling error?).

For the missions, i would say that if the missions in Ac2/b weren't scripted ppl would not follow the creed like they do with scripted missions, but if the missions were not scripted and the combat was harder, the noobs would all follow the creed and the skilled ppl would chose to follow or not the creed (remember altair at the very first mission? he was skilled so he choised to not follow the creed, but he wasn't skilled enough and failed... than he became wiser and decided to follow the creed even thought he is skilled enought to don't. The skilled players would being wise and follow the creed or being rudes and not follow the creed)

I think that the exemple of altair following (or not) the creed in Ac1 makes it easy or you to understand what i meant :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Altair was raised to follow the creed and where AC1 starts he is at a point where he thinks he is above the creed and is better than it.

It wouldn't have helped Altair at all if we were allowed to go killing the innocent when apart of the story was to watch Altair grow as a character because he does things right.

I definetly wouldn't say AC1 requires "skill", just today when going into Jerusalem I got the group of about 15 or so guards and brought them to the gate guards and just held in the deflect button and did so for about 5 minutes without being hit. Then I brought the guards back over to the original spot where the guards spawned again, deflected for a while again still not being hit and then just went and attacked them in no time at all. It doesn't take "skill" to make Altair look badass, he does that fine by himself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey dude, i will repeat this once again.

Even thought Ac1 combat took no skill, if you were noob you would play only with Counter Attack what would take more time than just being stealth.

For when you are skilled, the combat would take much less time so it would be faster than being stealthy.

Do you understand why i say combat takes skill in ac1?

And than compare the skill that ac1 combat requires and the skill that ac2/b combat requires LOLOLOL

acjake
06-17-2011, 05:51 PM
*I have organized the previous post on page 5 of this thread and made it clear/added new ideas*

Innovating AC's In-game Economy - Black Markets

In AC2 a new feature was added to series, an in-game economy. This feature added depth to the game. The economy was expanded a bit in ACB but nothing extremely innovative. Ubisoft should add another layer to the economy, The Black Market.

How the Black Market Works:

- Basically the black market will carry things you can’t access regularly

- In regular shops art merchants carry maps, a black market merchant that deals with maps can provide you with specific maps for buildings they can also provide info.

- The info could be something like ...finding out a landmark has numerous entrances this will help vary the way in which missions are done (this would bring back investigative elements from AC1)

- Info provided by black market merchants could be something like: (your target has beat up or humiliated their butler/servant…the butler now wants revenge…they are now willing to assist you by letting you in a restricted area)

- You would have to win over the trust of the black market merchant before purchasing from him/her …this could be done by performing a task. (example the black market merchant has a sick family member and they have unsuccessfully attempted to find medicine in a restricted area…your job is to get it without being detected because if your detected the merchant gets in trouble)

- Once you win over trust of black market merchants they will sell to you however since they are unreliable (black market) they may send you somewhere or give you info that could for example get you trapped...making game play dynamic

- Eagle sense could be use to determine the intentions of a black market merchant. Black market merchants would be placed all across the game world and eagle sense would be used to locate them.

- Black market merchants do not replace regular shops

- A regular bank has to follow city rules/laws…a black market bank can be used to put low level city guards on (e.g. Ezio’s) payroll to provide him with info

- Black Markets are dynamic meaning they don’t carry the same stuff all the time like regular shops (goods are always being exchanged and brought in to the black market world) …you want to create a distraction and want to use a firework …where do you get it the black market.

- Black Market merchants could in a sense fill the role of a bureau leader from AC1…except its riskier dealing with a black market merchant. Bureau leaders in AC1 would point you in a general direction/provide info…black market merchants do the same.

- You will be able to use items purchased from the black market in game for example if you have bought a map of a location you can physically pull it out in game put X’s on it and place your novices there to help you out

- AC is becoming more action adventure with each entry this is done so it appeals to a larger more mainstream crowd …black markets could be added to the in-game economy to help open up the game play…those who chose to use the black market can do so and vice versa.

- Black markets could be used in all aspects, tools & gadgets, info/maps,

Thanks for reading http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Conniving_Eagle
06-17-2011, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
*I have organized the previous post on page 5 of this thread and made it clear/added new ideas*

In AC2 a new feature was added to series, an in-game economy. This feature added depth to the game. The economy was expanded a bit in ACB but nothing extremely innovative. Ubisoft should add another layer to the economy, The Black Market.

How the Black Market Works:

- Basically the black market will carry things you can’t access regularly

- In regular shops art merchants carry maps, a black market merchant that deals with maps can provide you with specific maps for buildings they can also provide intel.

- The intel could be something like ...finding out a landmark has numerous entrances this will help vary the way in which missions are done (this would bring back investigative elements from AC1)

- Intel provided by black market merchants could be something like: (your target has beat up or humiliated their butler/servant…the butler now wants revenge…they are now willing to assist you by letting you in a restricted area)

- You would have to win over the trust of the black market merchant before purchasing from him/her …this could be done by performing a task. (example the black market merchant has a sick family member and they have unsuccessfully attempted to find medicine in a restricted area…your job is to get it without being detected because if your detected the merchant gets in trouble)

- Once you win over trust of black market merchants they will sell to you however since they are unreliable (black market) they may send you somewhere or give you intel that could for example get you trapped...making game play dynamic

- Eagle sense could be use to determine the intentions of a black market merchant. Black market merchants would be placed all across the game world and eagle sense would be used to locate them.

- Black market merchants do not replace regular shops

- A regular bank has to follow city rules/laws…a black market bank can be used to put low level city guards on (e.g. Ezio’s) payroll to provide him with intel

- Black Markets are dynamic meaning they don’t carry the same stuff all the time like regular shops (goods are always being exchanged and brought in to the black market world) …you want to create a distraction and want to use a firework …where do you get it the black market.

- Black Market merchants could in a sense fill the role of a bureau leader from AC1…except its riskier dealing with a black market merchant. Bureau leaders in AC1 would point you in a general direction/provide intel…black market merchants do the same.

- You will be able to use items purchased from the black market in game for example if you have bought a map of a location you can physically pull it out in game put X’s on it and place your novices there to help you out

- AC is becoming more action adventure with each entry this is done so it appeals to a larger more mainstream crowd …black markets could be added to the in-game economy to help open up the game play…those who chose to use the black market can do so and vice versa.

- Black markets could be used in all aspects, tools & gadgets, info/maps,

Thanks for reading http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just send me the link to your thread, I'll post it now.

acjake
06-17-2011, 07:21 PM
you can use the above ^ post that's the new version.

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Conniving_Eagle
06-17-2011, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acjake:
you can use the above ^ post that's the new version.

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, can you edit that into your post? It's not that I have a problem with copying and pasting, but, I think that the thread is long enough as it is. I added one paragraph, a whole other idea should require a link, that's why I put in the link to the Double Counter thread instead of just re-writing it.

acjake
06-17-2011, 07:29 PM
Thanks that's fine. My thread has been locked and it has a messy version of the idea but the paragraph you put it that's perfect.

Edit: just put this link http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...24/m/4251081919/p/24 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4251081919/p/24) and title it "Innovating AC's In-game Economy - Black Markets" ....kinda like what you did with double counter idea

Conniving_Eagle
06-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Yes, I did revive this thread. I'm sorry but Ubisoft still needs to see this.

Black_Widow9
06-19-2011, 01:29 PM
Please do not bump Topics as it is against the Forum Rules.

oOAltairOo
06-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Great ideas!

I'm afraid there is too little time for the developers to implement all of this. For example, beefing up the missions with more story and variety. Not sure though, might just be a bunch of boring developers coming up with them...

acjake
06-19-2011, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oOAltairOo:
Great ideas!

I'm afraid there is too little time for the developers to implement all of this. For example, beefing up the missions with more story and variety. Not sure though, might just be a bunch of boring developers coming up with them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah I agree that there is little time for the devs to implement these ideas for ACR, but maybe AC3 will incorporate them.

Sporkfighter
06-19-2011, 04:32 PM
I only read the first page of this thread but the social pyramid thing for the notoriety system is a great idea. Adding things like citizens pointing you out to guards or even citizens trying to block your path or something in an escape. You couldn't kill them because it would violate the creed but figure out a way to nullify their efforts i.e smoke bombs, free running, throwing coins, a quick brawl before the guards are on you again, something with eagle sense. That is something really simple that could make the game a lot more challenging, maybe Ubi should just implement a normal and a "realistic" mode to their games that way we have the more "Brotherhood experience" and then the "steroid AC/AC2 experience" available.

Any addition to more complex story missions that have more of that investigative element which was in Brotherhood in my opinion and making sure that every mission has a different approach even to the same goal is something that should be standard by now as well.

Conniving_Eagle
06-19-2011, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oOAltairOo:
Great ideas!

I'm afraid there is too little time for the developers to implement all of this. For example, beefing up the missions with more story and variety. Not sure though, might just be a bunch of boring developers coming up with them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, they still have 5 months until the game comes out, it's not like it's releasing in a week. They made this much in 7 months, there's no way they can't add these things.

Calvarok
06-19-2011, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oOAltairOo:
Great ideas!

I'm afraid there is too little time for the developers to implement all of this. For example, beefing up the missions with more story and variety. Not sure though, might just be a bunch of boring developers coming up with them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They've said many times at E3 that they're trying to make missions have a stronger story and more variety, and for all that to blend seamlessly with gameplay.

Conniving_Eagle
06-19-2011, 11:09 PM
Not to mention that they can edit the game up until the last day with Single Player, alot is accomplished in a day. Besides, look what they have already made in 7 months, they've already expanded in depth with the cities and the story, they could easily implement everything in this thread in 5 months.

k20ml
06-19-2011, 11:30 PM
How about an option that lets us create our own missions. Just like in inFamous 2 and Tenchu 2? That would be cool right?

iN3krO
06-20-2011, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by k20ml:
How about an option that lets us create our own missions. Just like in inFamous 2 and Tenchu 2? That would be cool right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really :X maybe for multiplayer co-op it would be nice... but only if they add dificult to the combat :P

Conniving_Eagle
06-20-2011, 11:55 AM
It would be nice if atleast on PC they could make their own maps. I don't think they'll do it in this game. Maybe AC3 though.

Ulicies
06-20-2011, 01:14 PM
I just bought ACB, and I have to say, I take back what I said earlier in this thread, to a certain extent.

My opinion on the worthlessness of the new throwing knives remain. They are inaccurate, and ineffective once you reach a certain point in the game.

What I take back on what I said is about the gadgets. After the throwing knives stopped killing in one hit, I switched over to the hidden blade poison darts, and I've never looked back. It's not only more fun to use hidden blade attachments over weapons like throwing knives and swords, but I now prefer their inherent gameplay mechanics.

Poison darts are stealthy; they don't alert guards or civilians when aiming, once fired, and even as the guard is laying there, convulsing on the floor. It not only can be used as a ranged replacement for throwing knives to keep rooftop guards from detecting you, but they also can be used at close range to kill the guards without having to engage in full-on combat. They're more accurate than throwing knives, and now that they've sped up the aiming process, its dispatching speed is only slower than throwing knives by a nearly unnoticeable degree.

I love the hidden blade. I love customizing the D-Pad to only the hidden blade, its attachments, and the crossbow. It's so fun feeling like you're a master assassin who only needs to use his hidden blade and the crossbow.

Which brings me to my idea: I would like to be able to customize what you carry, including everything, from weapons, to gadgets. Instead of being able to carry a certain amount of everything, you would customize a total size, or weight, of how much you can carry (granted, this would never turn into the Bethesda system where if you accidentally pick up too much you'll be over-encumbered; you would never be able to carry more than what you customized for). That way, it doesn't feel like you're walking around with an entire shop's arsenal in your little pouches. Not only would this make the game more realistic, but you could also optimize for certain amounts of play. Instead of carrying a little bit of everything on your back, you could take off everything except the crossbow and hidden blade; then you could optimize the rest of the weight for ammunition for bolts, bullets, and poison darts. Or, in the opposite direction, you could take off everything except throwing knives, bombs, and a dagger. Then, you could feel like a ninja who walks around with tons of "shurikens" and bombs.

This would not only let players tailor their inventory to their own style of play, but it could give a more realistic sense to how you approach a situation, where you feel more like an assassin, and not Rambo.

People right now are just more prone to haphazardly rush into a situation, and rely on the fact that they have absolutely everything to fall back on if things go wrong, like bombs. With this new mechanic, where they have to choose to either bring in tons of weapons, or tons of equipment, it would make them more cautious on how they approach a situation.

iN3krO
06-20-2011, 01:32 PM
interesting idea of instead of quantity, we should have weight so that we would carry 30 kg and we would try to do a mixture of what we use :P

Conniving_Eagle
06-20-2011, 06:32 PM
I think we've had this discussion earlier in the thread before. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I know Ubisoft won't do it because it hinders/limits gameplay, and I have to agree. Why should you have to plan out how you're going to kill a target? Maybe you change your mind in the middle of a sequence, or your method proved very ineffective. Yeah there's the whole "Well that's your fault, you should think better next time, idiot." But, alot of people will make that mistake, especially if Ubisoft decide to make sequences where there is only 1 unexpected easy way of killing a target and the rest are hard. I don't like it, If I want to play as a character who specializes in doing something, does accomplishes missions in only one fashion, or one fashion at a time, I'll go play one of Bethesda's games.

I'm actually playing Fallout: 3 right now, until I get the money to buy ACB and AC2(I've beaten them and played for over a month, but I borrowed them from my friend who sold them).

Ulicies
06-20-2011, 06:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
I think we've had this discussion earlier in the thread before. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I know Ubisoft won't do it because it hinders/limits gameplay, and I have to agree. Why should you have to plan out how you're going to kill a target? Maybe you change your mind in the middle of a sequence, or your method proved very ineffective. Yeah there's the whole "Well that's your fault, you should think better next time, idiot." But, alot of people will make that mistake, especially if Ubisoft decide to make sequences where there is only 1 unexpected easy way of killing a target and the rest are hard. I don't like it, If I want to play as a character who specializes in doing something, does accomplishes missions in only one fashion, or one fashion at a time, I'll go play one of Bethesda's games.

I'm actually playing Fallout: 3 right now, until I get the money to buy ACB and AC2(I've beaten them and played for over a month, but I borrowed them from my friend who sold them). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I phrased it like this in my other thread:

"But I realize that such an incremental change would take a bit of work on the developers' part, so let's start small: Only have a limit on the ammunition.

Let's use an example:
Let's say that the end-game, maximum number of equipment pieces that Ezio can carry is 50. That includes everything that can be purchased in the ammunition section, plus the hidden blade poison darts. Each different gadget can be implemented in Ezio's inventory in increments of 5.
That way, there will only be a maximum of 10 different gadget icons on the weapon wheel, and you don't run into the problem of trying to add one of every type of bomb in the game onto the wheel.
Let's also say that at the beginning, you have a number of 10-20 equipment pieces applicable, and slowly increase the number by 5 or 10 throughout the game. When you customize your ammunition, you can come up with a wide assortment of combinations, ranging from 50 crossbow bolts, 25 throwing knives/25 bombs, 20 darts/20 bolts/10 bullets, to 5 fire bombs/5 flash bombs/5 smoke bombs/5 poison bombs/30 hidden gun bullets."

I'm not talking about a progression system where you choose your stylized path. I'm talking about swapping customization options as easy as switching armor and weapons. You can swap around whatever ammunition combinations you like any time in the game. The only limit is the total number of ammunition pieces you can carry. That way, you could still theoretically bring every single type of equipment into a battle for people like you, but you're just carrying less of each kind. Then, people like me, who only prefer to use very specific gadgets, can optimize the ammunition limit to their own liking.

Conniving_Eagle
06-20-2011, 06:42 PM
I can agree with gadgets, that's it.

NoCrowdedSky
06-21-2011, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sporkfighter:
I only read the first page of this thread but the social pyramid thing for the notoriety system is a great idea. Adding things like citizens pointing you out to guards or even citizens trying to block your path or something in an escape. You couldn't kill them because it would violate the creed but figure out a way to nullify their efforts i.e smoke bombs, free running, throwing coins, a quick brawl before the guards are on you again, something with eagle sense. That is something really simple that could make the game a lot more challenging, maybe Ubi should just implement a normal and a "realistic" mode to their games that way we have the more "Brotherhood experience" and then the "steroid AC/AC2 experience" available.

Any addition to more complex story missions that have more of that investigative element which was in Brotherhood in my opinion and making sure that every mission has a different approach even to the same goal is something that should be standard by now as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To expand more on this: maybe depending on the actions you take the peasents or working class could like you more if helped them or somehting?

EmmaBemma
06-21-2011, 05:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
My opinion on the worthlessness of the new throwing knives remain. They are inaccurate, and ineffective once you reach a certain point in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Throwing knives are not inaccurate at all. You can get multiple guards at a time and it's almost impossible to miss.

But I agree it would be interesting to have a limitation to the amount of stuff you can carry at any one time. You could carry a bit of everything but in small amounts or you could carry lots of a couple of things or you could pretty much unequip everything. And the weight of the stuff you carry, as well as your Armour, will effect your speed, agility and health (e.g. more Armour = higher health but poorer agility).

I also like the social pyramid idea where citizens can alert guards or help you depending on their social status and alliances. They've already got the very basics of this with the random, helping mercenaries (not the ones you hire, but the ones that stand around shouting at guards).

I very much doubt either of these ideas have been implemented into ACR but they're definitely something to think about for AC3.

sassinscreed
06-21-2011, 07:12 AM
i agree we need more storyline assassinations, like in ac 2, in ac 1 the assassinations themselves were good but investigation part very boring, and in ac:b they focused on side missions more than main missions, i don't mind if they are scripted like micheletto it was fun mission, but need more of those in revelations

of course not all main missions need to be assassinations, thats what i liked most in ac 2 that there were main missions which are not assassinations but story was still focused on assassination missions at the end of every sequence

and those leonardo machine destroying missions in brotherhood... i liked them very much but**minor side missions spoilers might be here** driving that tank was little stupid, same as cannon or whatever it is where horses run on the road and ezio shoots around but nobody controls horses, only one full good was where you destroy boats*spoiler end*

Ulicies
06-21-2011, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EmmaBemma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
My opinion on the worthlessness of the new throwing knives remain. They are inaccurate, and ineffective once you reach a certain point in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Throwing knives are not inaccurate at all. You can get multiple guards at a time and it's almost impossible to miss.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>My experience with them is that one knife doesn't kill anyone after a certain point, and after throwing one, they've detected you, and start running around. At that point, getting a consecutive 2nd or 3rd hit depends on how the guard moves, and if he does a quick backpedal in the opposite direction, you usually see your knife miss.

And is there a page where I can look up all of the different techniques for ranged weapons and combat in general? I've only known very little about them.

Conniving_Eagle
06-21-2011, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">of course not all main missions need to be assassinations, thats what i liked most in ac 2 that there were main missions which are not assassinations but story was still focused on assassination missions at the end of every sequence </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! That's exactly what needs to be done, it's what I was talking about. It doesn't need to be ALL assassinations, but the end of almost every single DNA sequence should have atleast one or more assassination missions. And I want a long Singleplayer with replayability. Make it 14 sequences or more again, not counting the Altair sequences.

Calvarok
06-22-2011, 02:37 PM
I think Brotherhood was very side-mission focused, so it's a bit unfair to not count the side-mission assassinations, expecially since they were much more quality than the ones from previous games.

But from the Revelations intervies, they seem to have understood that people want cool assassinations that are important to the story.

Brotherhood was about building an assassin army and taking over rome by force and stealth, and the side-missions were the more traditional asssassin content.

Revelations is making side-missions random events, and blending narratve and intelligent gameplay, as well as polishing the tools you already had to allow for more creative gameplay, and adding some new ones.

Calvarok
06-22-2011, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EmmaBemma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ulicies:
My opinion on the worthlessness of the new throwing knives remain. They are inaccurate, and ineffective once you reach a certain point in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Throwing knives are not inaccurate at all. You can get multiple guards at a time and it's almost impossible to miss.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>My experience with them is that one knife doesn't kill anyone after a certain point, and after throwing one, they've detected you, and start running around. At that point, getting a consecutive 2nd or 3rd hit depends on how the guard moves, and if he does a quick backpedal in the opposite direction, you usually see your knife miss.

And is there a page where I can look up all of the different techniques for ranged weapons and combat in general? I've only known very little about them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you hold down on the attack button when selecting the knife or dagger, you can throw up to three arrows that kill instantly. I personally think that they should fix the animation for throwing a knife normally, and make it a 1 hit kill like in AC1.

But yeah, you can use the knives effectively if you hold down and release the button. In AC2 it took really long and you could only do it in combat, which was lame.

Conniving_Eagle
06-23-2011, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
I think Brotherhood was very side-mission focused, so it's a bit unfair to not count the side-mission assassinations, expecially since they were much more quality than the ones from previous games.

But from the Revelations intervies, they seem to have understood that people want cool assassinations that are important to the story.

Brotherhood was about building an assassin army and taking over rome by force and stealth, and the side-missions were the more traditional asssassin content.

Revelations is making side-missions random events, and blending narratve and intelligent gameplay, as well as polishing the tools you already had to allow for more creative gameplay, and adding some new ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm.. AC2 had the exact same thing with side missions going on that ACB did, only they weren't Templars.

Calvarok
06-23-2011, 11:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
I think Brotherhood was very side-mission focused, so it's a bit unfair to not count the side-mission assassinations, expecially since they were much more quality than the ones from previous games.

But from the Revelations intervies, they seem to have understood that people want cool assassinations that are important to the story.

Brotherhood was about building an assassin army and taking over rome by force and stealth, and the side-missions were the more traditional asssassin content.

Revelations is making side-missions random events, and blending narratve and intelligent gameplay, as well as polishing the tools you already had to allow for more creative gameplay, and adding some new ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm.. AC2 had the exact same thing with side missions going on that ACB did, only they weren't Templars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except AC2 had way less, and they weren't as good.

Conniving_Eagle
06-24-2011, 11:44 AM
Well, I can argue that the Templar missions weren't that hard either. Like assassinating Ristoro, the priest, or even assassinating the gunner in 45 seconds. Not to mention all of them could easily be done with the brotherhood assassins. AC2 had some really hard missions, like killing 10 brutes in 60 seconds. That's only one example, and that took me like 10 tries. I'm not sure if you played AC2 but combat is alot harder in that game. And they had alot more mini-missions as well, because there were multiple cities.

iN3krO
06-24-2011, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ConnivingEagle:
Well, I can argue that the Templar missions weren't that hard either. Like assassinating Ristoro, the priest, or even assassinating the gunner in 45 seconds. Not to mention all of them could easily be done with the brotherhood assassins. AC2 had some really hard missions, like killing 10 brutes in 60 seconds. That's only one example, and that took me like 10 tries. I'm not sure if you played AC2 but combat is alot harder in that game. And they had alot more mini-missions as well, because there were multiple cities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, Ac2 combat was a lot harder than AcB combat but the enemies AI were better in AcB however, enemies AI of ac1 was better and the combat was harder too :P

That mission of the brutes took me 1 try... throw bomb + kill xD

Conniving_Eagle
06-24-2011, 08:48 PM
I did it as soon as it was unlocked in Florence. All I had was my hidden blades and my fists. And I only assassinated two of them. Anyways - AC1 AI, AC2 counter-times. I've been playing AC2 alot lately and combat can actually be pretty hard, not surviving, but losing minimal health or no health can be difficult at times.