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View Full Version : Me 109K-4 vs P-38L duel



Hristo_
06-18-2005, 03:23 AM
AerialTarget, here's your duel track (http://free-kc.t-com.hr/nino/duel.zip).

I wasn't at my best there, as I haven't dueled for years, only cherrypicked off distracted people http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Hristo_
06-18-2005, 03:23 AM
AerialTarget, here's your duel track (http://free-kc.t-com.hr/nino/duel.zip).

I wasn't at my best there, as I haven't dueled for years, only cherrypicked off distracted people http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

F19_Ob
06-18-2005, 06:07 AM
Something is wrong with the track link m8.

JG5_UnKle
06-18-2005, 06:17 AM
zip it up Hristo_ - a lot of browsers try and open track files http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hristo_
06-18-2005, 06:24 AM
fixed it

duel track (http://free-kc.t-com.hr/nino/duel.zip)

F19_Ob
06-19-2005, 04:18 AM
Cant unzip it. I get a message of damaged file when I try.
It feels also as the download goes too fast.

Hristo_
06-19-2005, 04:57 AM
It is easier to duel than to post track of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyway, it should be OK now.

CKY_86
06-19-2005, 05:35 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif wow

that has to be the best dogfight ive ever seen.

well done http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

VF-29_Sandman
06-19-2005, 05:42 AM
after watching track, the 38 has most definately improved in zoom climb. i did see it do a funky fish flip tho. seems the 38 practically matched u in climb rate in this patch where in 3.04 it would have been left far behind.

k-4 does have a good turn rate tho. in a furball, i think u would have had an even rougher time dealing with the lightning. u did put in a few good hits that would have flamed him in 3.04. that df showed a hell of a match tho.

LeadSpitter_
06-19-2005, 06:04 AM
nice fight, thats the most hits I have ever seen a p38 take. Some lucky misses on both sides and it dont seem like the 109 was using trim on a slider.

VF-29_Sandman
06-19-2005, 06:40 AM
that's the way it should be. clean and fair. some 109 shots wasnt taken tho, and probably would have finished the fork tail big time

F19_Ob
06-19-2005, 07:35 AM
Good track and both opponents flew well.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Thanks for posting. I'm not online yet so I haven't seen any online 4.01 before.

The p38 sure looked like it could loop and turn and fight better now without that snapstall. 109 seemed a bit better overall though.
Looks as the 109 could pull enough lead more times than the p38 but that perhaps depended on pilot or initial angle.

It's a pitty that arcademode dont work on NTRK's. It would be great to see where and what rounds hit.
It seemed anyway that one 30mm hit an engine and another hit the front or cockpit area so pilot perhaps was hurt at the end.

It would have been fun to see it from the p38's view aswell.

Well done both.

mynameisroland
06-19-2005, 07:53 AM
Very good dogfight, great spiraling evasive manuvers. I think had you been in a G6 AS Hristo it might acutally have been easier!

A couple of shots you had could have finished it real early but all in all brilliant handling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hristo_
06-19-2005, 08:02 AM
As I said before, I haven't dueled in years. An experienced dueler might have gotten quicker results against what seemed an experienced knifefighter in that P-38L.

Trim on a slider ? I don't know about it, never used it. Prop pitch exploit ? Don't know about that one too.

In fact, I fly 109 very rarely. I don't even know or feel the differences between K-4, G-6/AS, or G-10, in fact.

The bottom line is that I matched the P-38L and dedicated P-38 pilot in it. I don't fly the 109 and I don't fly that particular style of combat. Someone more familiar with dueling in 109 could have been much more effective, IMHO. this all makes me believe 109K is a better 1 on 1 plane than P-38L.

Relative plane strengths were just as I remember from Warbirds H2H ladder duels back in 1990s. P-38L could match K-4 zoom, in large part by hanging on its props due to no torque. In turnfight P-38L is generally better, unless a lot of rolls are used, where its inertia hinders it. 109 is lighter and can slow down and accelerate much more quickly. This is evident in situation where we do a spiral to the deck. P-38 starts in favorable position, but loses it when 109 idles its engine and uses flaps and rudder to make itself draggier. Gravity works against P-38. Once the P-38L was pushed in front, it smartly tried to use its relative E advantage and zoom away. 109 quickly caught up simply by firewalling the engine though.

A Fw 190 could not win that type of fight. A different style would have to be used, mainly by staying fast, but this is generally much harder to do. But then again, Fw 190 was never made to fight duels anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

VF-29_Sandman
06-19-2005, 09:02 AM
still, u put up a good match against the 38. i had a hard time pickin up the 38 from ur cockpit at first when he was down in the weeds. not sure what version of fw would be able to somewhat hang with the 38 in that duel tho. some can do it, alot cant.

FatBoyHK
06-19-2005, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An experienced dueler might have gotten quicker results against what seemed an experienced knifefighter in that P-38L. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't fly with AerialTarget before, but from what I heard from some regulars on comms, he is nowhere an "experienced kinfefighter" in a P38.

Not to say the duel is not good, nor I wanna comment on anyone's skill..... I couldn't do that actually, as I rarely do any knfiefight.

JG54_Arnie
06-21-2005, 02:14 AM
Nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

We should have more threads like these here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VF-29_Sandman
06-21-2005, 06:24 AM
even if they were both 'noobs', the track still put on a hell of a good show. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

mynameisroland
06-21-2005, 08:24 AM
Hristo if you were in an Fw D9 or A9 how would you have handled the situation if you were co E co Alt. Other than a head on I would try to extend and then come back around, if it was an inexperienced pilot in the P38 Id try to drag him in to scissoring , or break hard and try to get in to a turn fight and use the vertical to roll inside the P38's turn.

Im not a dueller either but if push comes to shove if you can handle La7's the P38 is managable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hristo_
06-21-2005, 08:59 AM
Well, it is a little missplaced to talk on "how to..", I think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But OK, here it goes. First of all, I wouldn't take a Fw 190 into a duel at all. But in the arena, I'd certainly try to stay fast and not too close. If, by any chance, I find the opponent on my six, I'd try to shake it with high speed vertical scissors. If that fails, then flat scissors on the deck. Once he overshoots, Id try a quick shot and turn away to gain separation.

It may seem simple on this virtual paper, but it is not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

In 4.01 I find fighting Mustangs and P-38L in FW 190A-6 fairly amusing. They have speed and turn, I have guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

In A-9 I'd close fast, try to surprise him to see what he's made of. If he outflies me, I'd dive away and try to keep my lift vector on him. Fom there it is anyone's guess. We should try it sometimes.

darkhorizon11
06-21-2005, 01:41 PM
Yeah the P38 is finally a force to be reckoned with in this game. Its pretty sweet.

Hristo_
06-21-2005, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Yeah the P38 is finally a force to be reckoned with in this game. Its pretty sweet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 on 1, maybe.

But check my other thread about K/D of planes in WarClouds. P-38 is at the bottom (again).

AerialTarget
06-21-2005, 03:00 PM
Thanks for the track; I had forgotten to record it and was hoping you did. I was actually expecting you to take the Focke Wulf after your remarks in the P-38 thread. But seeing as how Me-109 is my nemesis as far as German planes go, I think it only fitting that this was the plane chosen.

As for the results, that was my second day using no external views after years of external usage. I think I could do a bit better now, though no guarantees on a win. I'd really like a rematch when I get my TrackIR! Also note that I had not yet been taught by Cuda the awesome airbrake trick; I don't think I used airbrake at all in that fight. He told me about it shortly afterwards, and I've used it constantly ever since.

Quite frankly, it was the fault of the pilot and not the plane, and moreover even if it were the plane, the plane is still not up to the specifications of the real airplane. By the way, Gibbage told me that he had a real P-38 pilot who flew it in the war try it out briefly in the game. The man said that it was pretty much spot on, only the real thing turned better!

BigKahuna_GS
06-21-2005, 07:11 PM
S!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Gibbage told me that he had a real P-38 pilot who flew it in the war try it out briefly in the game. The man said that it was pretty much spot on, only the real thing turned better! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That seems to be a common remark heard from actual P38 pilots who try out the AEP/PF P38.

Someone just had his grandfather fly the in game P38 and posted it here. His grandfathers comments were--needs better elevator response and a better roll rate.

__

AerialTarget
06-21-2005, 07:45 PM
Awesome! May I have a link to the review?