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NHawk52
06-01-2006, 10:41 PM
As a sim noob, one of my first questions herein focused on the intial frustrations of not being seemingly able to climb with and keep up with the AI at takeoff. Having perused the forums at length over the past couple of weeks studying all the sim information I can absorb, I keep running across others like me with the same questions. Some say that the AI "cheat" (game parameters), while some others say that they have become so practiced and proficient that they can somewhat easily take off behind AI planes and stay right with them in the climb in most any non-hacked plane. Now I'm not challenging the latter group at all; quite the contrary, I have respect for their achievement. (My current solution is to do campaigns at high rank so that they have to just keep up with me instead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Might one or a cooperative group of the learned ones please write up a "How To" that might instruct the rest of us to be successful at this part of the sim? Given the age of IL-2, et al, I am a bit surprised that it hasn't been posted already.

Thanks.

NHawk52
06-01-2006, 10:41 PM
As a sim noob, one of my first questions herein focused on the intial frustrations of not being seemingly able to climb with and keep up with the AI at takeoff. Having perused the forums at length over the past couple of weeks studying all the sim information I can absorb, I keep running across others like me with the same questions. Some say that the AI "cheat" (game parameters), while some others say that they have become so practiced and proficient that they can somewhat easily take off behind AI planes and stay right with them in the climb in most any non-hacked plane. Now I'm not challenging the latter group at all; quite the contrary, I have respect for their achievement. (My current solution is to do campaigns at high rank so that they have to just keep up with me instead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Might one or a cooperative group of the learned ones please write up a "How To" that might instruct the rest of us to be successful at this part of the sim? Given the age of IL-2, et al, I am a bit surprised that it hasn't been posted already.

Thanks.

FoolTrottel
06-02-2006, 01:48 PM
My solution is: Do not try and keep up with them!

After take-off, follow them, fly as fast as you can go (w/o overheating of course), but do not climb with them! Stay lower, this will keep your speed up, and you can keep them in sight.

After some time you will start gaining on them, and then you can climb to their level!

Have Fun!

Chivas
06-02-2006, 02:31 PM
I usually take-off right on the tail of the aircraft ahead of me and then cut the corner on any turn. Works for me.

MrMojok
06-02-2006, 02:42 PM
Or else, if you are flying strictly offline, turn engine burnout off. No AI plane will ever be affected by engine burnout in this game, why should you?

WWSensei
06-02-2006, 02:44 PM
Focus on keeping the nose down with the VSI less than 5. Worry about speed first before altitude and you'll find the AI easier to keep up with. A lot of people will hold the nose high and get behind the power curve of the engine to lift and never catch up.

Snootles
06-02-2006, 07:03 PM
My solution: be the flight leader. That way those AI schlubs are the ones who have to follow you around. Of course sometimes they get real uppity with you- one time in regular navigation flight my #3 decided to pull ahead of me and park himself feet in front of my plane, and then start slowing down.

mortoma1958
06-02-2006, 07:51 PM
Here we go again, as I said in another post, you can keep up easily with the AI, even without being flight leader or by flying with overheat turned off!! I do it all the time and it's not that hard.
And you don't have to stay way below the AI either, as the one gentleman claims.

Here's the basic mistake most newcomers make. Usually they will take off and simply try and climb too hard, at too much of a climb angle, thereby loosing too much speed. Trim your plane so that you are climbing, but at a faster speed.
Don't climb too aggressively or you'll get behind due to speed loss. If your plane has a
top speed of say, 420Kph, like an early Spit, then climb about 350 to 370Kph or so. Never try to climb at your planes best rate of climb speed!! In this sim, if you try and climb at that speed, the AI will leave you behind. Do not try to keep your nose ( or gunsight ) pointed at the AI climbing in front of you, keep them high in your windscreen, almost out of the normal view or even completely out of view a little bit. A climb at a higher speed than your best rate of climb is called a "cruise climb" And this is what you have to do in this sim. Use best rate only for other reasons, in other circumstances, not to keep up with AI on the way your destination/target. Use cruise climb for that!!!

The big mistake is I think people think they have to keep their gunsight or nose of their plane pointed at the AI climbing in front of them. I'm never flight leader and I can keep up in all of the planes, all 215 ( or however many ) aircraft we have in the planeset!! It can be done and no strange tactics needed, just practice until you can do it.

I will email tracks of me keeping up with AI in any of the flyable panes in the sim. If you need proof, I will gladly furnish it!!!! Nobody ever asks for my tracks though, I think mostly because people hate to be proved wrong!?!?

P.S. - There are two planes that even I could not keep up in, but you can easily modify/edit the Dgen scripts for those two. I did and now I keep up in all planes, period.

mortoma1958
06-02-2006, 08:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
Focus on keeping the nose down with the VSI less than 5. Worry about speed first before altitude and you'll find the AI easier to keep up with. A lot of people will hold the nose high and get behind the power curve of the engine to lift and never catch up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly, well put. Been trying to explain this stuff for a long time and you are more succinct than I.

What I hate to see is other noobs giving advice to other noobs!! This is part of the problem which perpetuates this type of "ya can't keep up with the AI" myth. Let us sim veterans give advice. I mean, do you learn algebra in High school by getting knowledge from another newcomer student, or from the teacher?? DOH!!!!!

Some of us guys have been flying this sim since it came out. And in many cases, other sims from years before that. Learn something from us!!!

mortoma1958
06-02-2006, 08:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I usually take-off right on the tail of the aircraft ahead of me and then cut the corner on any turn. Works for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I do neither, and I keep right up with them. Overheats on too in realism menu.

VW-IceFire
06-02-2006, 10:03 PM
Keeping up with the AI is relatively simple but takes time to understand.

1) Focus on speed...not climb

2) Focus on trim and keeping the "ball" on your slip indicator centered

3) Learn engine management skills to ensure you're getting the best out of the engine (find out when you need to switch the supercharger stage for instance)

NHawk52
06-02-2006, 10:05 PM
OK, now I am reading this topic with a different perspective than I had previously interpreted.

What I hear now is that "keeping up with the AI is relatively easy enough" so long as you don't try to copy their rate of climb at takeoff. And I can wholey agree with that; even I can "keep up" as long as I don't try to match their climb.

What I also hear now is that the reference to the "AI cheat" is relative only to their failure to bleed off speed in their initial climb.

So, if my interpretation is now more accurate, then both sides are right and were just approaching each part of the question separately. Thanks.

mortoma1958
06-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Well not exactly....not in most cases. You see the AI are not climbing at their "best rate of climb" either, but a cruise climb like I mentioned before. I match their climb in most cases. But because they took off before me, they are slightly higher than me at any given time until time to level off. But I can stay with them on the climb, sometimes outclimbing them.
So in that sense you are wrong. They rarely outclimb me, I stay close, both in altitude and in my distance behind them. Then when the AI flight leader levels off, the other AI then me have to climb a little bit longer to his altitude, so he starts to outdistance us for a small time period as he picks up speed. But then I finally match and then exceed his speed after I have matched his altitude and catch up again, this is usually easy to do.

So you can indeed try to match their climb rate in most aircraft and exceed it in many others.
If they climbed at the max rate, they probably would leave human pilots behind since AI don't succumb to overheat. In most prop monoplanes in the sim, the best rate of climb is somewhere between 240 to 300kph. Best rate is somewhat slower for the biplanes and faster for the jets. But the AI don't seem to climb at best rate, just a fast cruise climb.

WTE_Galway
06-04-2006, 03:59 AM
of course your autopilot also does not overheat and climbs at the same rate as AI so you can always fudge and turn on autopilot for a short while just to get catch up

slipBall
06-04-2006, 05:18 AM
All of the above http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I'm hopeing b.o.b allows for formation take off's

mortoma1958
06-04-2006, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
of course your autopilot also does not overheat and climbs at the same rate as AI so you can always fudge and turn on autopilot for a short while just to get catch up </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure you can. But why?? If you learn to fly and keep up like I do, it only makes you a better PC pilot. It's not all that hard, don't understand why people insist on giving up or not even trying. At this point I find keeping up effortless in most aircraft. If I can do it anybody can.......

FoolTrottel
06-04-2006, 04:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And you don't have to stay way below the AI either, as the one gentleman claims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, you talkin' to me?
I never stated to stay way below, just lower

If you read carefully, you can see that my advise is the same as yours.
In the end, yours is more elaborate, including an fine explanation ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

What it boils down to: keep the speed up, not the climb ...

Have Fun!

mortoma1958
06-04-2006, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And you don't have to stay way below the AI either, as the one gentleman claims. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, you talkin' to me?
I never stated to stay way below, just lower

If you read carefully, you can see that my advise is the same as yours.
In the end, yours is more elaborate, including an fine explanation ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

What it boils down to: keep the speed up, not the climb ...

Have Fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, sorry, you are right. I'm a tardo sometimes and don't read things thoroughly enough.

FoolTrottel
06-04-2006, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ok, sorry, you are right. I'm a tardo sometimes and don't read things thoroughly enough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NP, I do so recognize this ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
06-04-2006, 10:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
All of the above http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I'm hopeing b.o.b allows for formation take off's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I kinda do that at Port Moresby in NG P40 and P39 campaigns anyway.

The default runway is so wide I usually pull out and take off parallel to the flight leader.