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JungleGeorge061
03-24-2005, 10:51 AM
Anyone know if it is too late too start more 3rd party modeling projects for FB / PF.?
Any ideal if Oleg is going to lience a 3rd party studio add-on for additional aircraft?

Jippo01
03-24-2005, 11:06 AM
Yes & yes.


-jippo

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 11:28 AM
Why not redo some old cockpit and model much easyer to replace http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jippo01
03-24-2005, 11:45 AM
Why redo some old cockpit and model even if much easyer to replace? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


-jippo

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 12:21 PM
Because quality is always better then quantity. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jippo01
03-24-2005, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Because quality is always better then quantity. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is plenty of quality in FB planes and cockpits, if you do not believe me go play CFS.


-jippo

Jippo01
03-24-2005, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Why not redo some old cockpit and model much easyer to replace http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And BTW. No it isn't much easier, it means basically redoing completely = same work as new model.


-jippo

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 02:28 PM
Jippo01 First try to stay correct.

To implement new cockpit into new planes requirer more work than rework cockpits.
i repeat again "Because quality is always better then quantity." Please don't be a quantity.

But we can talk and debate about it for pages it doesn't matter it's not up to us.

Gibbage1
03-24-2005, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Jippo01 First try to stay correct.

To implement new cockpit into new planes requirer more work than rework cockpits.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gozr. how much 3D experance do you have to state such "facts"?

I agree with Jippo. Its just as hard to re-work or work on someone else's models then it is to start from scratch. Fact. I did the P-63 from scratch and did not convert it from the P-39. The cockpit was a conversion from the P-39 and took just as much time to convert as it took me to model the P-80 cockpit. Very VERY little of the old pit was left. Just the doors and the floor.

Jippo and I both have a lot of experance, so dont tell us what is hard and what is not.

Gib

P.S. If it aint broke, why fix it?

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 03:56 PM
Gibbage and Jippo matter of fact i'm an illustrator , it is harder to work on creating a new cockpit then a new plane then place it into the game with all is going with. than just redo a cockpit from scracth or just redo the whole cockpit or just the textures. Humm.. The facts??? You need facts??? for this ok 1+1=2 and 1=1 ... simple.
if you say that make a cockpit and the plane it's easyer than just a cockpit something is wrong here.

I anderstand that in the both case it's hard no dought lets say it take a lots of time.


BTW how much of 2 d do you know? I know you can open your opinion real quick sometime too quick as we talk before in PM.
Why this hostility ?

Gibbage1
03-24-2005, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Gibbage and Jippo matter of fact i'm an illustrator , it is harder to work on creating a new cockpit then a new plane then place it into the game with all is going with. than just redo a cockpit from scracth or just redo the whole cockpit or just the textures.
if you say that make a cockpit and the plane it's easyer than just a cockpit something is wrong here.

I anderstand that in the both case it's hard no dought lets say it take a lots of time.


BTW how much of 2 d do you know? I know you can open your opinion real quick sometime too quick as we talk before in PM.
Why this hostility ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hostility? No. Fustration? Yes. Its very fustrating when people who dont know 3D tell me my job. I bet you get the same. As for my experance in 2D, I went through that before I went onto 3D. Everything from traditional animation, web design, book covers, web pages, and I still do 2D in the form of texture mapping my models. All the textures in the P-80 cockpit I did in Photoshop (not my best work) and same for the P-63 and Go-229.

Comming from both backgrounds, and intermising them I can tell you that yes, it takes as much work reworking someone else's model then it does to do a new one. When I was working on the PBY, I did away with the old PBN-1 model and started a new one instead of converting it.

Also, doing a cockpit in the I-185/BoB quality takes about 100 hours or more. For that expense in time, how much more copy's of IL2/PF will Oleg sell? None. You, me, and everyone on this forum represent 1/2 of 1% of the total market and thats not enough to justify an expense like that. And yes, it is an expense.

Again, if it aint broke, why fix it?

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 04:33 PM
I totaly agree with this it remind me when was doing a comix it take one year. I know all this very well but what i'm trying to say is not what you think i said, re-read i maybe explaining my self poorly but this is the best i can do.

Just everyone want more and more new planes and cockpits to go with it and this is when BOB is not too far ahead. what i'm trying to say is for some 3 dr party maybe recreate the older cockpit and update then it would be great since those are the plane we alway use Online for example.

Many new or others planes are very rarely used.
That why i say quality is better than quantity.

But don't take it wrongly no matter what is HARD
but maybe Oleg would be more kind to lets teh 3 dr party ( or the passionate guy ) rework the already existing plane instead of adding. lets say each time a good cockpit is on i didn't hear any whining.

I just imagine a yak9U ( witch suffer of incorrect dimensions ) cockpit like the 185 or the KI-61 or KI-84 just great.

VW-IceFire
03-24-2005, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Many new or others planes are very rarely used.
That why i say quality is better than quantity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I fly all planes...I fly most planes all the time. Its hard to quantify what "we all fly online the most".

I'm all for improving the game but not at the expense of multiplayer integrity. Opening up the code would do that. If not doing that, then Oleg's team has to implement and that takes time and work for them. Its expensive and unnecessary when the game is 7-8 years old now and they are working on new games for new sources of income.

Time to get stuff finnished, and I cross my fingers that it all arrives (Ju-88, Tempest, Italian collection, Mosquito, Spitfire XIV, Do-335, and many more!) and that Oleg can move along to his next projects. I look forward to what happens when we get to BoB.

Gibbage1
03-24-2005, 05:07 PM
If it aint broke, why fix it?

LEXX_Luthor
03-24-2005, 06:25 PM
Gozr:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>recreate the older cockpit and update then it would be great since those are the plane we alway use Online for example. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

That has to be a Classic.

TheGozr
03-24-2005, 11:18 PM
LOL.. I totally anderstand Gibbage, Jippo and many others why they have a hard time to get what i say..

Jippo01
03-25-2005, 07:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:

I just imagine a yak9U ( witch suffer of incorrect dimensions ) cockpit <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What is this? I never heard of this before?


-jippo

TheGozr
03-25-2005, 09:06 AM
Jippo yes the cocckpit of the yak is not correct the front window is too short, the cockpit must be rounder almost like the f6's and many litle things( no biggy ).

You never hear it because i'm the only one here who flys the yak9U in RL. You do the 3 d i fly the real thing, i can tell you that it's not correct ofcourse i anderstand that it was made in the first generation il2 limitations.

Jippo01
03-25-2005, 10:21 AM
Interesting! I suspect that it will not be changed, but if you can could you post a picture of your ride for comparison. I rarely fly Yak's, but it would be interesting to make a comparison and see how the Russian pits match their real counterparts. I think the German planes are quite ok(quite excellent actually) except for some minor mistakes, but Russian planes I do not know so well.


-jippo

jagdmailer
03-25-2005, 10:31 AM
Yes,

German A/C cockpits are mostly good to great.

Some other ones are less fortunate. Do not know about the Russian paper planes cockpits but I do know that the Ar 80/81 series & Fiat G-50 cockpits could use some/lot of help. Do not get me wrong, I am glad we have those but they are kind of very basic, if you compare to the MBf 110G-2 or few others. I heard that the Jug's cockpits is not the greatest either.

Perhaps the best cockpits for German A/C IMHO would be Bf 110G-2 and maybe He 162 ? Soon to be flyable Ju 88A/C looks very promissing too.

Do not know about allied stuff as I never fly it.

Jagd

TheGozr
03-26-2005, 03:35 AM
Jippo01 :

http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/yak9Ureal.jpg

http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/yak9u_il2.jpg

I did a quick compression of this.
Small video of the round cockpit (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/yak9Uroundpit.wmv)

So i made a very poor modification to what it should be more close to.

http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/arts/RLyak9.jpg

ALready Oleg is making the same engine in the first yak9U malfounctioning with out the full power=1500 hp an it has the same in the Yak9UT 1945 with the same deffect if he did the first model of yak9U with 1500 why the yak9UT? wich was made with a lots of holloy.

LEXX_Luthor
03-26-2005, 04:07 AM
Our Yak~9U cockpit is good enough.

MiG~3 cockpit is the *best* made cockpit in the game.

MiG~3 is my Fave WW2 plane. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If Ki~44 had a cockpit like MiG~3, Ki~44 Fans would post that Ki~44 cockpit was the *best* made cockpit in the game.

TheGozr
03-26-2005, 04:10 AM
"Our Yak~9U cockpit is good enough."
On that case why all this whinning about how some weapons should spray to me it would be good enought then.. It is not good enough!.
To know how thing are is good and can be corrected in other releases like BOB etc..if it's not possible in FB.

LEXX_Luthor
03-26-2005, 04:15 AM
Better..we actually *have* a Yak~9U cockpit in the game!

Same with Bf~109K cockpit the online Brownie Point dogfighters want "upgraded" ... they never ask for Bf~109 Dora cockpit (they never heard of it).

Amazing. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Badsight.
03-26-2005, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
ALready Oleg is making the same engine in the first yak9U malfounctioning with out the full power=1500 hp an it has the same in the Yak9UT 1945 with the same deffect if he did the first model of yak9U with 1500 why the yak9UT? wich was made with a lots of holloy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yak-9U had both 1500 & 1605 Hp Klimov V-12

Yak-9U hits proper speed @ SL & at ALT , only you post otherwise

you been told how Yak-3 isnt better but still you wont show your own tests , because they prove you wrong is why

avimimus
03-26-2005, 06:12 AM
It is true if both Gibbage and Jippo say something about modeling, it must be fact.
Or a terribly funny joke.

Here is what I hope for from the 3rd party developer:
Hs-123
Flyable U-2
Maybe another flyable like the TU-2, HS-129 or FW-189
Some enhancements to maps or support for a 3rd party meditteranean map.

Most of this won't happen , but maybe 20% of it will http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif!

avimimus
03-26-2005, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
Yes,

German A/C cockpits are mostly good to great.

Some other ones are less fortunate. Do not know about the Russian paper planes cockpits but I do know that the Ar 80/81 series & Fiat G-50 cockpits could use some/lot of help. Do not get me wrong, I am glad we have those but they are kind of very basic, if you compare to the MBf 110G-2 or few others. I heard that the Jug's cockpits is not the greatest either.

Perhaps the best cockpits for German A/C IMHO would be Bf 110G-2 and maybe He 162 ? Soon to be flyable Ju 88A/C looks very promissing too.

Do not know about allied stuff as I never fly it.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you considered that in real life the cockpits might have looked worse?

I always thought the G.50 and 80/81 were some of the best cockpits. Anyway, you should be greatful we have them at all.

Besides have you built a better one?

csThor
03-26-2005, 06:42 AM
Mostly the cockpit "quality" is usually a question of texture quality. Compare the textures used in Bf 110 G-2 with P-47. Speaking of 3D model both are good (or excellent), but the texture job is what makes them so different.

Jippo01
03-26-2005, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csThor:
Mostly the cockpit "quality" is usually a question of texture quality. Compare the textures used in Bf 110 G-2 with P-47. Speaking of 3D model both are good (or excellent), but the texture job is what makes them so different. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and to dramatically improve textures requires really complete redoing of the model. It is no point to improve the textures and then use original low resolution mapping etc. Also new cockpit models like I-185 are made in a completely different system by building two cockpits: hi-resolution and low-resolution. These two are then combined to make the one for the game. So making eg. Bf-109 like this will mean that there isn't really anything that could be used from the current model. Same goes for all the other planes of course.

Gozr: Thank you! It was quite clear what you mean. Some of that can be explained with the perspective used in the game which tends to badly stretch things especially on wide view, but your point is still quite clear. I understand what you mean.


-jippo

TheGozr
03-26-2005, 11:16 AM
Thanks Jippo it's good to feel anderstood http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheGozr
03-26-2005, 01:34 PM
badsight:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Oleg what ever you do make shure you model the yak9U correctly with his fool power and potentiels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It is the Russian flagship. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunatelly, there was special order to do not use VK-107 on full power on the first serial aircraft that come on the front due to problems with the old VISH propeller reductor oil leak. However some pilots ignored it and flew on full power some time and the speeds they were achived even higher than technical data. But the problem with reductor was solved just in the last couple of months of the war and serial production Yak-9U (with other airintake also) was coming in Germany _probably_ after May 9.

I don't think we would make special versions Yak-9U of some pilots that ignored order and flew on full power...

So, we model these planes that were there really. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not quite correct, and it's clear what kind of the yak9U we have here modeled.

Badsight.
03-26-2005, 02:43 PM
look in the Object Viewer , look at the rated speeds , both are higher than Yak-3

now try in the QMB or in a coop or online , Yak-9U goes as fast as the game says it should

faster than Yak-3 & faster climb to 5K than Yak-3

its heavier than yak-3 , but has more power , Yak-9U has more powerfull motor than Yak-3 , is not the same power

TheGozr
03-26-2005, 03:38 PM
You are talking about yak3 now so yes the yak3 as a faster climb at ignitiate punch then above ~3000 the yak 9U take over