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VW-IceFire
11-12-2004, 07:03 AM
Hey everyone,

This may have already been reported but I thought I would take a stab at it.

I understand most P-39's were equipped with 37mm cannons. This is the most common armament ported around by everyone that I've ever run into. The plane indeed was designed the way it was partially because of the want/need to install a high powered cannon in the propeller hub.

Now this is where I'm confused.

I know the P-400 was originally for the British but they rejected it. They wanted a Hispano 20mm instead of a 37mm so thats the way it was equipped. The barrel sticks out of the nose.

But did any of the P-39D's have a 20mm Hispano/M2 cannon? Right now, in game, the only difference between the D-1 and the D-2 appears to be the length of the barrel sticking out of the nose but both have, as standard, a 20mm cannon. The 37mm is optional...for whatever reason.

This may have already been reported as a bug or this is just simply something I'm not understanding...so fix me up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 08:02 AM
i emailed Oleg because of that some days before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

because i didnt realized that the 37mm M4 was only an option for the D-2 - so i reported the "bug" that the D2 would have wrong ammo and weapon - i got email back the M4 is option .

well, its realy strange and as a missionbuilder i domt like it. you will now see very few 37mm canons in early P-39s i would think.
so far i read the difference betwenn the D1 and D2 were that the D2 had a better engine ( its in game, the D2 has 110% power , the D1 only 100% ) AND the M4 instead of the Hispano.

my only hope is that the weapons restriction will work after patch . but that doesnt help in dogfight maps.
it looks like oleg has other infos.

btw, he said they aded no other 3D modell when armed with Hispano (that is actual the standart , strange enough) because of time reasons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

clint-ruin
11-12-2004, 08:03 AM
Sorry I don't have any answers for you, but I was wondering if anyone has any info on New Guinea field mods for the P-39d and P-400 - any written documentation of how widespread they were. I know I've read that at least some squads removed the .30 cal guns from the wings entirely, just like the soviets did in the field too.

chris455
11-12-2004, 08:10 AM
The P-39D1 was a P-400 with a 20mm cannon and four .30 Browning MGs in place of the .303 MGs in the wings. There was also a small fillet at the tail which gave the tail it's finalized shape that it retained for the rest of P-39 series.

The P-39D2 had an Allison V1710-63 (1325 BHP) and a 37mm cannon M4. Otherwise, identical to D1

mortoma
11-12-2004, 08:16 AM
My understanding is that the P-400 has the 20mm Hispano as default and the D1 has the 37mm as default. While the D2 had an American 20mm, ( not a Hispano ) which is similar if not the same as the American 20mm cannon in the P-38s. Am I correct??? I thought only the British used Hispanos, not Americans.

As far as you guys who prefer the 37mm, well you may want to rethink that preference in the Pacific theatre!! I find the P-400 and P-39 without the 37mm much more maneuverable and a 20mm packs way, way more than enough punch to take out thin-skinned Japanese birds. The 37mm is overkill in the PTO as it is against Me-109s. Although you are for sure better off overall with the 37mm in the eastern front, to counter FWs and tough German bombers. Don't need no 37mm in PTO though. You'll just reduce your agility and zoom climb when you need that against Japanese planes. Believe me, you are better off with a 20mm any day against Japanese, you just haven't realized it yet.

mortoma
11-12-2004, 08:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
The _P-39D1 _ was a P-400 with a 20mm cannon and four .30 Browning MGs in place of the .303 MGs in the wings. There was also a small fillet at the tail which gave the tail it's finalized shape that it retained for the rest of P-39 series.

The _P-39D2 _ had an Allison V1710-63 (1325 BHP) and a 37mm cannon M4. Otherwise, identical to D1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If that's true then Oleg has it backwards! In the game, the D1 has 37mm only, and the D2 has a 20mm with the 37mm being only an option.

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 08:25 AM
USA hadnt any own 20mm canon in WW2 in action .
all 20mm canons in use ( P-38, early P-39 , F6F-5 , F4U-1C) were , most propably licensed build, 20mm Hispanos !

and the point of this topic is more , espacially fore a better difference betwenn the planes:
shouldnt have the P-39D-2 the 37mm M4 as standart weapon (like its 3Dmodel is showing).
and, if at all, the 20mm Hispano as weapon choice ?

than you would have P-39D1/P-400 with lesser perfomrmance but with better suitable (in general) weapon like 20mm canon.
ore the P-39D2 with a better performance but a less sufficent (sure there are players who are handling the M4 very accurate ! ) weapon , the M4 .

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
The _P-39D1 _ was a P-400 with a 20mm cannon and four .30 Browning MGs in place of the .303 MGs in the wings. There was also a small fillet at the tail which gave the tail it's finalized shape that it retained for the rest of P-39 series.

The _P-39D2 _ had an Allison V1710-63 (1325 BHP) and a 37mm cannon M4. Otherwise, identical to D1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If that's true then Oleg has it backwards! In the game, the D1 has 37mm only, and the D2 has a 20mm with the 37mm being only an option. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

look again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

chris455
11-12-2004, 08:29 AM
Good point FrankyBoy,
I'm doing a little research to see if the P-39D1
used an Oerlikon or Hispano type 20mm. My guess is that it was an Hispano.
The D2 definitely used the 37mm M4.

JG53Frankyboy
11-12-2004, 08:35 AM
"As the Hispano M1 or M2, this weapon was used on a limited scale by the USAAF and slightly more by the USN. In American service, there were frequent complaints about the unreliability of the guns and feed mechanisms. Some of the changes that had been made in British guns to improve reliability were not included in the US guns, which were made directly from French drawings. It also appears that parts were made with excessive tolerances. The USAAF used the Hispano in the P-61 nightfighter and in the P-38 day fighter. The USN installed it in some attack aircraft, such as the Curtiss SB2C dive-bomber, and a small number of F4U fighters. Only after WWII did the USN adopt the 20 mm cannon, then in the improved M3 version, as its standard weapons for fighters."

from here http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

and "Further P-39D versions were ordered specifically for delivery under Lend-Lease. They were produced in two batches--P-39D-1-BE and P-39D-2-BE.

150 P-39D-1-BEs were ordered on June 11, 1941 under contract AC 32. 185 more were ordered on September 17, 1941 under Contract AC 156. An additional P-39D-1 was provided under a separate contract.

The P-39D-1-BE (Bell Model 14A) was powered by an Allison V-1710-35 engine. Like the P-400, the P-39D-1 was armed with a 20-mm M1 cannon rather than the 37 mm Oldsmobile cannon, but the four 0.303-inch wing guns of the P-400 were replaced by 0.30-in guns. The two fuselage-mounted 0.50-inch machine guns were retained. A small dorsal fillet gave the tail a new shape, which became standard on all later P-39s and was retrofitted to most earlier P-39Ds. A total of 336 P-39D-1s were built.

The remaining 158 machines on the Lend-Lease order were produced as P-39D-2-BE (Model 14A-1). These were assembled under contract AC 156 placed on June 1, 1941. The P-39D-2 introduced the uprated 1325 hp V-1710-63 (E6) engine and had a 2:1 reduction gear. It brought back the 37-mm nose cannon. It was otherwise identical to the P-39D-1. The P-39D-2-BE could carry the 145 US gallon drop tank underneath the fuselage.

Most of these planes were originally intended for the United Kingdom. However, the Royal Air Force had rejected the Airacobra as a combat type, and most of these planes were delivered to the Soviet Union instead.

Not all of the P-39D-1 and D-2 aircraft were delivered to the Soviet Union. Several dozen were taken on charge by USAAC squadrons and were flown in combat. Some of these P-39D-1s (along with the P-400) were flown by the 347th Fighter Group at Guadalcanal in August of 1942. Some flew with the 31st Fighter Group in North Africa in 1943."

chris455
11-12-2004, 08:49 AM
The P-39D2 in the game is incorrect

It appears that it's default weapon is a 20mm of some type.
It has an option for a 37mm M4.
The default should be the 37mm (indeed, there should be no 2nd option for the D2)

The D1 however, is correctly fitted with a 20mm offering of some type.

clint-ruin
11-17-2004, 08:32 PM
Oleg said,

(A): Say you is right about D version that come to Russia from UK service at first, then some part directly from US.
Don't remeber exct digits of their amount. Rmeber just that their amount was too small comparing to common of N and Q series recevied by lend lease.
with 20 mm was version of D from UK.
with 37 mm was version of D from US.
So it was like different versions for different AF. 20 mm cannon was installed by request of UK AF. And they wasn't chooseable on the field. It was done on manufacture.
Link: 08/13/02 03:38PM

Couple of years ago :>

JG53Frankyboy
11-17-2004, 08:47 PM
and what ????????

the Airacobras from british service were the P-400/Airacobra I - they flew from Murmansk May 42 . and sure, they had 20mm Hispanos

topic here is the strange armament of the D-2 .
that its standart is the 20mm - as its 3Dmodel is showing the 37mm, that is only an option.

if maddox want still give the D-2 both weapons, he should make the 37mm as standart and the 20mm as option

VW-IceFire
11-17-2004, 10:09 PM
Soooo to recap:

P-400
1x20mm Hispano
2x.50 cal
4x.303 cal

P-39D-1
1x20mm Hispano
2x.50 cal
4x.30 cal

P-39D-2
1x37mm
2x.50 cal
4x.30 cal

Plus bombs and stuff.

Right now they all have 20mm's plus a 37mm option. But that shouldn't be true for the D-2 which has only 37mm and the D-1 has only 20mm.

JG53Frankyboy
11-18-2004, 04:13 AM
only D-2 has 37mm M4 option


EDIT because of a missunderstanding with icefire:
i ment that in the game PF3.0 the D-2 only has an option for the M4 . where it realy should have this weapon as its standart and most propably no option for a 20mm hispano.
P-400 and P-39D-1 are ok , again, in game

VW-IceFire
11-18-2004, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The P-39D-2 introduced the uprated 1325 hp V-1710-63 (E6) engine and had a 2:1 reduction gear. It brought back the 37-mm nose cannon. It was otherwise identical to the P-39D-1. The P-39D-2-BE could carry the 145 US gallon drop tank underneath the fuselage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...yes but if you read into that a bit. It should have the 37mm cannon as standard. Not as an option. Its a minor quibble but lets take it one step further.

The Hispano cannon is longer in barrel than the 37mm. So the 37mm is totally enclosed in the nose while the Hispano sticks out the front. This is true on the P-400 and the P-39D-1. But on the P-39D-2 there is no cannon sticking out the front. Hispano or 37mm...

So in the realm of minor bits and pieces...this isn't right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif