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View Full Version : Could the Ju-88 outrun a P-38-L level or in a dive? Just wondering.



Mysticpuma2003
02-21-2007, 02:01 AM
I just wondered if it could.

I was surprised last-night on Warclouds to see a JU-88 go past me moving from 11oc to 9oc, and decided to attack. I banked around and started to close the gap, when the pilot obviously saw me and jettisoned his bombs and banked right and dived away.

At full throttle I followed, but no-matter what, I couldn't close the gap, eventually a Tempest took over me and engaged the JU-88 while I broke off, quite disheartened.

My question is more aimed at the fact that I was sure the P-38 would be able to catch the JU-88, but I must have been doing something wrong. Or maybe, it really couldn't.

Can someone advise me on this (fully expecting sarcasm, but useful comments also appreciated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

Cheers, MP

Mysticpuma2003
02-21-2007, 02:01 AM
I just wondered if it could.

I was surprised last-night on Warclouds to see a JU-88 go past me moving from 11oc to 9oc, and decided to attack. I banked around and started to close the gap, when the pilot obviously saw me and jettisoned his bombs and banked right and dived away.

At full throttle I followed, but no-matter what, I couldn't close the gap, eventually a Tempest took over me and engaged the JU-88 while I broke off, quite disheartened.

My question is more aimed at the fact that I was sure the P-38 would be able to catch the JU-88, but I must have been doing something wrong. Or maybe, it really couldn't.

Can someone advise me on this (fully expecting sarcasm, but useful comments also appreciated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

Cheers, MP

FritzGryphon
02-21-2007, 02:05 AM
If you were interested in useful information, you'd have done a test.

I suppose I'll get the most obvious one out of the way; are you sure your engines were on at the time?

FE_pilot
02-21-2007, 02:32 AM
Since the Junkers-88 is about 4x bigger than the P-38, i would not be surprised to see that happen.

Also gravity was not on your side.

mynameisroland
02-21-2007, 02:53 AM
Mystic it sounds like you have your dive brake open or your combat flaps deployed ? I find the P38 accelerates very well in shallow dives, it gets me out of dodge quite often that way - so running down a Ju88 bomber should be easily achieved. The Tempest probably overhauled you because he cut his PPitch back and had his radiator shut, it goes like the clappers that way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mysticpuma2003
02-21-2007, 03:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
If you were interested in useful information, you'd have done a test.

I suppose I'll get the most obvious one out of the way; are you sure your engines were on at the time? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I was expecting it, so it wasn't a surprise http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TBH, I was looking for someone who could give an answer, to the question, and from the above, I guess I must have been doing something wrong!

The flaps were certainly raised, and the airbrake was retracted, I just couldn't make any progress on closing on the JU-88, so maybe I'll have to try a few QMB's to see how rubbish I am in the '38.....knew I should have taken my '47 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I'll see what happens in the QMB's, but it did surprise me that the '38 didn't close the gap on a diving '88.

I'll work out how to perform a test before I ask a question again Fritz, but glad of the answers, now where is my drawing board so I can go back to it?

Cheers, MP.

mynameisroland
02-21-2007, 03:44 AM
Im not a full time P38 flier but if you close the radiators on the J/L and enter a shallow dive you are pretty much uncatchable until you hit compressibility. In a J model I have escaped from G2s, Macchi 205s and Fw 190 A5s all on online servers and I find it a very fast survivable aircraft - this include online Megamissions and on dogfight servers.

Mystic you do seem to have bad luck in the P38 , I remember you posting about spontaneous engine combustion a while back lol. Maybe this time when chasing the Ju88 you had some damage or had drop tanks or rocket pylons attached ? I just can see any other explanation. It is very fast in clean config and has a high break up speed too.

Pollack2006
02-21-2007, 03:54 AM
Interesting question....this should settle it:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/IL2Flugbuch/Got%20Energy.jpg

tigertalon
02-21-2007, 04:35 AM
Something must have been wery wrong. Have you been damaged before (badly damaged)? Did you use full throttle? U sure your landing gear was not accidentaly deployed?

At what general speeds were Ju88 and you flying during the chase? Maybe he started much higher and dived past you (ju88 has an impressive dive limit, which enables it to outdive most russian fighters).

Any way to review the track?

TAW_Oilburner
02-21-2007, 05:01 AM
JU88 is very fast and in a dive is maybe only 10-15 mph slower than 38. However the 38 is at least 60-70mph faster on the deck. I guess the big question is which plane bleeds energy faster in level flight..this could have had an effect.

Monty_Thrud
02-21-2007, 05:18 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gifI know the answer to this...it's because the P~38 is porked, it's goosed, rogered...in a nutshell, it's a donkey...THAT! is an ex-P~38.

...glad to be of service...NEXT!

MEGILE
02-21-2007, 06:05 AM
G Key?

Mysticpuma2003
02-21-2007, 06:42 AM
I may have a track (fingers crossed), I'll see if it has the answers.

Cheers, MP.

p1ngu666
02-21-2007, 09:12 AM
ju88 dives well, so in a dive with the "jump" on ya, then yeah, in level u should quickly overhaul him.

no ju88 S series for us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

AVGWarhawk
02-21-2007, 09:38 AM
The P-38 was in good trim? Was the Ju88 an AI? The AI are all veterans with engine management and trim....as far as I can tell.

JG53Frankyboy
02-21-2007, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ju88 dives well, so in a dive with the "jump" on ya, then yeah, in level u should quickly overhaul him.

no ju88 S series for us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why should a almost 12 tons heavy aircraft, with not the worst aerodynamic shaped frame, not dive like a stone?

PFflyer
02-21-2007, 09:41 AM
Except for being heavier than the P-38, the Ju-88 is not much different an aircraft from the P-38, it has close to the P-38s horsepower.

So you should be able to get to speed faster than it does, and the P-38 probably has less drag and higher top speed, but if the Ju-88 had a running start past you I can believe it got away. Some variants of Ju-88 would go over 600km/hr at altitude, and over 400km/hr at sea level.
In the history books, a lot of Ju-88s got away from fighters back across the English Channel in a shallow dive, they could not be caught, they were a great aircraft and very fast.

ViktorViktor
02-21-2007, 11:38 AM
Are you sure it was a JU-88 ?

alert_1
02-21-2007, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are you sure it was a JU-88 ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure it was a JU-88 ?
Yeah..wasnt it..wait wasnit Ar234? It looks similiar: big fascist werke with two engines
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

p1ngu666
02-21-2007, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ju88 dives well, so in a dive with the "jump" on ya, then yeah, in level u should quickly overhaul him.

no ju88 S series for us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why should a almost 12 tons heavy aircraft, with not the worst aerodynamic shaped frame, not dive like a stone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i mean the ju88 is decent enough in a dive that the p38, unless close and at similer speed wont make it much closer. but at level flight, p38 faster

lowfighter
02-21-2007, 12:05 PM
HorsePower is pretty similar however the difference in maximum level speed is quite big, from HardBall's Aircraft Viewer at sea level:
Ju88-389 Km/h
P38J-554 Km/h.
Does this tell something about the relative drag of the two planes? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

DIRTY-MAC
02-22-2007, 02:23 AM
I know in Bob the bombers used to do a shallow dive to escape from fighters, and there was no fighter who could catch them when doing that.
Dont know how it was later in the war, but in the beggining you could escape fighters by doing it.