View Full Version : Help for a total Newb flyer

07-21-2004, 12:13 PM
OK, I just got on board and purchased IL2:FB AEP...
very nice, but I am LOST!! Can anyone point me in the direction of good tutorials for newbs..
I am OK just flying around but I keep hearing guys talk in my radio, and I don't know where to go...
the map is worthless as I fly right off of it and keep hitting the "M" key (I'm new, I need a map! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Any help on how to fly a mission and basic game play would be great

Thanks so much

07-21-2004, 12:13 PM
OK, I just got on board and purchased IL2:FB AEP...
very nice, but I am LOST!! Can anyone point me in the direction of good tutorials for newbs..
I am OK just flying around but I keep hearing guys talk in my radio, and I don't know where to go...
the map is worthless as I fly right off of it and keep hitting the "M" key (I'm new, I need a map! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Any help on how to fly a mission and basic game play would be great

Thanks so much

07-21-2004, 12:16 PM

Welcome to the madhouse that is the Il2 forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, and you made a good purchase (depending on the v2.04 patch).

First of all, there are plenty of tutorials about and you can search the forum for help, too. I've not got any links but I'm sure there will be others to follow...

With respect to the map, if you click on the map with your mouse, it will zoom in...and if you keep clicking, it will zoom out.

Hope this helps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :

: More irreverence :

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

07-21-2004, 12:20 PM
Welcome to the world of FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Uuhmm... how to fly a mission.. let the auto-pilot take you to the action and then take over the controls http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Just remember - you can't use time compression too much http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Seriously though... just post specific questions and there will always be someone that can help you.

- Yellonet

El Turo
07-21-2004, 12:24 PM
Verily, as written by the Prophet Bmbm, from the Book of n00b, Chapter 1, verses 1-10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1
In the Beginning there was Light in [Russia], Pixel upon Pixel of Light, and then there were Aeroplanes. And when there were Aeroplanes there was great Joy upon the Earth and above the Earth, for then there were also Individuals of great Daring and Confidence to pilot them. They were known amongst themselves as Fighter Pukes, yet to the Appearance of Gods they were all Noobs. And it was good.

So beginneth the Story and so it be told for ever more. In the Beginning all were Noobs. And the Noobs beget a second Generation of Pilots, bearing the Family Name and in all respects similar to their Forefathers, and that too was good.

On the first Day of Installation the Fighter Pukes bang'd their Chests and strapp'd their Bodies into Machines of wondrous Matter, to immediately prove their Mettle. Yet despite Curses of increasing strength and foulness their Craft refused to leave the Earth, as if these winged Beasts of Destruction had a longing too strong for the sharp Embrace of solid Matter. Ground Loop upon Ground Loop was performed to the cries of "WTF!! What am I doing wrong! Why won't this Damned Plane fly??!?". Because they were Noobs, and Noobs knoweth not better.

From the Heaven boom'd forth a mighty Voice, scaring the Noobs half out of their Minds and impressing them forever with their lack of Knowledge in matters pertaining to flight. "Harken to ye Noobs! Thee shalt lock thine Tail Wheel afore attempting to leave thine surly Bonds". So did the Noobs lock their Tail Wheels, and it was immediately perceived as good. Yet the surly Bonds remain'd unbroken and there was a great gnashing of Teeth upon the Earth.

So did the Noob maltreat his Stead that Aircraft upon Aircraft were reduced to smoking Piles of twisted Aluminium until the Voice boom'd forth again, this time with badly concealed Mirth. "Thou shalt bear in Mind the awesome Power of thine Engine for it createth Torque of considerable strength sufficient to throw thee Cheek first unto the Ground. Harness this Power with judicious application of Rudder and counteract thine rolling tendency with opposite Aileron". Thus did the Noobs practice much until they could safely throw themselves into the Air several meters before encountering further Complications. For they were truly Noobs.

A greate kaboom was heard many a times as Noob after Noob slamm'd catastrophically into the unyielding Ground, hardly mask'd by shrieks of horror and consternation. So the Voice also boomed "Noob! Thou shalt not pull almightily on thine stick afore thine Airspeed is sufficient for Flight, or be punish'd swiftly by fearsome Stall to flutter harshly to the hard Matter. Fool! Stabilize thine Craft to comfortable Speed and then thee may Maneuvre". Thus He spake and the Noob obey'd until he was no more an earthbound Noob but a flying Noob.

On wings of horrific destruction recently tamed the Fighter Puke swung himself loftily into the Skye. "Yay! I'm UP! Now art I no longer a Noob! Look out! Here I come!" crooneth he and aim'd his nose through the nearest Hanger. Many a times distinctly dented and charr'd it was before the Noob rushed giddily through its wide yet narrow span, to embrace the omnipresent Destroyer, the Tree, in spectacular Explosion. And so Noob remain'd a Noob, to the great Entertainment of Gods and Spectators.

So came the wondrous Day - verily, the First Day, the Day of his real Birth - when Noob pressed the tantalizingly glowing Button that spelt "Play Online". Lo and behold! A land of plenty, where Fighter Pukes galore were already aloft and seeking each other's swift annihilation. Humbled by this presence of other, hysterically vocal, Noobs, Noob snuck out on a faraway Field called Cambrai or Bertrix to try his luck and his Guns. Up he went and all the Angels of the Sky hummed in unison. "W00t!" was his first utterance, and "WTF!" his second, as the evil Vulcher from Hell swept down and smote him in a vicious blow. "Haha!" croon'd he, "Noob! Check thine Six before takeoff or I shall smite thee another time!". Much distressed and lusting for Revenge did the Noob thus check his Six, and seeing nothing but a great big Seat took off again into the waiting Guns of Vulcher.

"This was not in the Manual I did not read", cried the Noob and loudly bemoaned his Fate many a times in succession until his Brethren from rear Airfields came to his succour and chase'd away the wily Vulcher.

The multilayered Sky now clear'd, the Noob didst fly away at the unholy altitude of several tens of meters, only barely avoiding to cut the Grass on a certain popular Hill, so resplendent in gaily colored pieces of various shattered Aircraft. "So this is what it's like to be a Fighter Puke" extolled the Noob, happily testing his Guns for all to see. On his next sortie he didst not test his Guns like so no more, and the sneaky Swooper didst in fact not see him so easily. "Now I am verily a Fighter Puke, I know when not to fire my Guns!" cried the Noob. "Nay" the Gods of the Sky and the High Domain retorted, "thou art nothing but a Weedklipper Noob". And there was much squinting and grimacing below. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.


[This message was edited by El Turo on Wed July 21 2004 at 11:32 AM.]

07-21-2004, 12:32 PM
Nice Toro. Did you write that?

Vertically challenged since 1984.

El Turo
07-21-2004, 12:39 PM
Neg. This excerpt from the Book of n00b was written by "BmBm". Good stuff. =]

I was trying to cut and paste some legitimate help-type-stuff but keep getting the "Message body" posting error.. so I posted this instead and it took it.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.


07-21-2004, 12:46 PM
Haven't read the long post yet...but looks good...

something as simple as the right click on the map, autopilot and time acceleration help greatly...
I can at least find the fight now.. Thank you....

I see that is is going to take a LONG time just to get it straightened out to be able to fly and stay level, while looking at the keyboard to figure out which key I need to press to put my flaps down or whatever....

Wow... keep the tips for a newb coming!!

Thank you!

07-21-2004, 12:54 PM
Just read the poem...nice work.....

Hmm. guess I would have to change the settings to difficult from Easy to actually have to take off!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

El Turo
07-21-2004, 01:00 PM
Attempt #2 at being helpful:

Ultimate Truths:

1) There is ALWAYS someone flying higher than you and in your rear quarter. Always.

2) Fly backwards. You should be looking everywhere but straight ahead 80-90% of your time in the air.

3) Don't fire until you are close. When you think you are close enough, get closer. When your heart is in your throat, you're almost close enough. If you are firing beyond 200m you're wasting ammo. Most experienced pilots obtain their kills at well under 200m.

4) If you aren't fighting, you had better be climbing. No exceptions. Period.

5) Speed is life and altitude is your life insurance. If you have neither speed nor altitude left to cash in, you are already dead whether you know it or not. Always have a backup plan.

6) Grab a wingman. Flying in pairs/groups will save you more times than I can possibly quantify. Two pairs of eyes is better than one, eight guns are better than four. So on and so forth. A simple "hey, want to wing up?" is often sufficient enough to get yourself a buddy.

7) Ask questions. There is no faster way to learn how to do something than to ask those who have been there and done that.

El Turo
07-21-2004, 01:03 PM
More cut and paste goodness, I hope.. Apologies if the formatting gets wonked in the process and that some of the discussion is related to another sim.. but still relevant, I think?

Here ya go:


Barrell roll: The magical manuever.

Used either offensively or defensively. Primary use is
to slow horizontal progress by introducing vertical
elements to forward travel. By "corkscrewing" you will
be forcing your plane to travel a greater distance to
move forward than someone who is flying straight and

Maneuver is initiated by pulling back on the stick and
including an element of roll to either left or right.
The farther to the side you move your stick, the
tighter the roll will be. The farther back you pull
the stick, the wider your roll will be. The farther
from center you pull the stick, the more violent the
manuever will be.

The magic ingredient to the Barrell Roll is to include
just a touch of OPPOSITE rudder to flatten out your

Generally, you want to make a barrel roll with more
elevator than aileron so that the corkscrewing effect
has a bigger radius to exaggerate the diference
between straight/level flight and your barrel roll.

Usually, you want to use more elevator (back pressure)
as you come on the "up" side of the roll, and more
aileron roll (left/right on stick) as you come "down"
(inverted) side of the roll. This will keep your nose
relatively above the horizon. If your nose dips below
the horizon more than 50% of the time you will begin
descending and building up speed which is contrary to
what the barrell roll is supposed to do for you.

In a defensive situation, where you have a bad guy on
your six, you want to use the barrell roll to spoil
his guns solution and to try to force an overshoot.
Unless he does the same thing you are, he will try to
get a gun solution on you and will be too fast to stay
behind you.

The severity/sharpness with which you decide to
perform the manuever depends on one major factor...
how much closing speed does your bad guy have? Keep in
mind the faster he is RELATIVE to you, the less
violent of a manuever you need to use because the
faster he is flying, the less manueverable he is going
to be to begin with. If your bad guy is relatively the
SAME speed as you, then you should elect to perform a
stronger manuever to shake him. I recommend that you
use more elevator than aileron to make the manuever a
"bigger" corkscrew. Watch your opponent and see what
they do. If after a time they pull up and away, then
you may stop the manuever and try to get into an
offensive position. If they are too fast to stay with
you (like in a bounce from above), then they will most
likely pull up and away from you to begin another

Using the barrell roll on offense:

You are coming down on your target from above and
behind at too fast of a closure speed to stick with
them and/or get a firing solution.

Instead of wasting all your built-up energy by cutting
power and/or dropping flaps to just slow down, use the
barrel roll to conserve that energy and still stay
behind them!

A nice big (high)lazy roll will trade your speed for
altitude, give you a great view of your target below
you as you go inverted at the top of the roll, and
still allow you to convert that gained altitude back
into speed to close on your target again. By trading
your excess speed for altitude, you still retain the
energy advantage and have more options than your
opponent who is forced to remain defensive.

Be patient, and always strive to use as little energy
as you can and still pull off the manuever. Sometimes
the least amount of energy you can afford to pull is A
LOT, but often times it is much, much less than a
maximum performance turn.

More on the Offensive Barrel Roll:

If you are coming down on your opponent with superior
energy (lots of speed) and you recognize that you are
going to overshoot him, you can elect to use a barrel
roll to conserve your energy by trading altitude
(using the vertical) to slow your horizontal progress
down, establish yourself above and behind your
opponent once more, and still have a great visual
acquisition on them (because you are inverted at the
top of your roll).

The idea is that you are looking to achieve a gun
solution much faster than just zooming back up into
the sky back on your perch to set up for another BnZ
pass. This move is a calculated risk and a decision
you must make. You are trading safety for the
opportunity to score a killing blow.

This would be an especially valuable manuever if you
have *already* scored hits on your target and damaged
them severely... because they aren't going to be doing
much more other than just trying to stay airborne, let
alone get a firing solution on YOU.

This is also a good manuever to use on bombers that
are relatively unmanueverable as well. You can get
multiple gun passes on your bad guy in rapid
succession by using this.

Note: You'll have to make a judgement call on just
how much rudder you're going to want to use...
remembering that the more rudder you use, the more
energy you are going to burn. If you are concerned
about the amount of E-bleed, use more aileron (and
more vertical) than rudder to get yourself around the
top of your roll. By exchanging speed for altitude
you have a more efficient retention of energy.


HI/LO Yo-Yo: An energy conserving manuever designed to
allow a faster, lesser-turning plane to "cut" the
corner and turn inside an opponent.

Initiated by banking the aircraft and pulling back on
the stick. (Anything but wings level or perpendicular
to the horizon works) Small corrections can be made to
ensure that the turn does not flatten out into a
purely horizontal turn.

Instead of a flat turn, an vertical element is added
into the maneuver to make the path of the aircraft
become eliptical or "egg shaped". The aircraft becomes
slower as it comes nose high into the turn, shortening
turn radius while exchanging speed for altitude which
makes for the smaller radius turn at the top of the
"egg". On the inverted "down" side of the turn the
aircraft exchanges the built up altitude for speed
which will make your turn a big wider at the bottom of
the "egg" curve. As the pilot continues to pull
through the turn, the nose will rise and fall below
the horizon, thus the term "yo-yo".

Why does this work?

Visualize two hoops laying on the ground from a
top-down perspective. One hoop is slightly larger than
the other, representing a larger (or "worse") turn
radius comparatively.

Now, pinch the larger hoop slightly and lay it back
down over the smaller hoop. Whereas initially, the
larger hoop never crossed the smaller hoop (no firing
opportunities), this new "eliptical" hoop will cross
the smaller hoop in at least two places, maybe four.
These are your firing opportunities as you slash
through your opponent's turning circle.

The horizontal-flat turning pilot is pulling back on
his stick, burning energy as fast as he can to evade
you and/or get on your stick.

The yo-yo pilot is continually exchanging altitude and
speed for a more efficient manuever. This will
ultimately lead to the yo-yo pilot having the
advantage as the flat-turning pilot runs out of
airspeed and options.

Effectively, this allows a plane to out-turn a
supposedly superior turn-fighter and is a tactic
employed by many German pilots in WWIIOL to get the
edge on Allied pilots.

However, if you ALSO have a superior turn fighter AND
you are ALSO Yo-Yo turning, you will get the edge on
him anyway if he decides to turn with you.

Remember though, you do not necessarily want to pull
the stick back to your stomach and max-performance

You want to always try to keep your ride close to its
corner velocity. In the Hurricane and Spitfire, that
is right about 200-220mph (just a bit higher for the
Spitfire than the Hurricane). In the Hawk, around
250-300kph. If you get below this or above this
figure, you will not be turning at maximum efficiency.

This takes a LOT of patience and practice to pull off
because your instinct is to pull back as hard as you
can 100% of the time.

Watch your AoA and try not to exceed 10 degrees.

Watch your speed and try to keep it close to

If you are above these speeds and blacking out in the
turn, and you just HAVE to keep turning harder for a
shot pull back the throttle and you should relax some
of the G-forces on your plane/pilot and be able to get
that snap shot.

Test this out offline or at a rear area:

Bank your plane to anything but wings level (loop)or
perpendicular to the horizon (flat turn).

Pull back on the stick moderately like you were going
to flat turn aggressively.

The nose of your plane will rise and fall above the
horizon without you doing ANYTHING else as you
continue to turn in this elliptical fashion.

Over time, your plane has a tendency to want to
flatten out its turn a little bit... which you offset
by inputting just a little bit left/right stick
pressure to increase or decrease the angle of your

Effectively, as you get slow at the top of your "turn"
you will be slow and have a small turning radius.

When you are at the bottom of the turn and fast you
will have a little wider turn radius...

Which is what gives you this "egg" shaped curve that
you are flying.

If your opponent continues to fly a flat turn you will
easily "cut the corner" on them and have multiple
firing opportunities.


You don't want to use excessive amounts of rudder or
flaps in this manuever unless you've found yourself at
or approaching stall speeds at the top of your turn
(which you shouldn't be at anyway).

Rudder use should be limited to slip correction
(keeping this at or very near to zero will maximize
your turning ability and actually SAVE energy).
Anything more or less than zero slip means your plane
is flying slightly left or right of center, thus
increasing the amount of surface area it is presenting
to the oncoming air flow. Even just a couple degrees
of slip will rob you of a TON of energy.

You can kick in combat flaps at the top of your turn
if you are getting down to stall speed or dangerous
Angle of Attack limits (10+ degrees) to help you get
"over the hump".

Just make damn sure you raise them back up as you are
coming back "down" the manuever so that you get as
much speed and energy back as you can for the next
trip back "up".


Uh-Oh.. I'm Guns Defensive.. NOW WHAT?

The #1 Golden, never forget, do-not-pass-go, brand it
in your mind, tattoo it on your forearm rule to


Do not, under any circumstances perform any kind of
linear manuever.

(For the love of God, don't loop!)

This means that your stick will NEVER be exactly in
the 12, 3, 6, or 9 oclock position. Always, always,
always include BOTH roll AND pitch in every manuever.


Always, always, always keep your bandit visually
acquired. Do not take your eyes off of them for more
than a split second at MOST. If you lose sight of your
opponent, you're going to get some holes put in you
that you weren't born with.

Situational awareness is the single most important
skill you can learn/acquire. Knowing where your
opponent is, or is GOING to be is the absolute
difference between winning and losing an engagement.

Do not perform the same manuever over and over. A good
pilot will recognize it and begin to "time" you for a
snap shot.

Think of a MLB pitcher throwing the same pitch over
and over and over to a batter... it's only a matter of
time until he hits it out of the ballpark.

Good ideas:

Barrel Roll. Does exactly what is stated above,
non-linear and difficult to get a good shot on target.
*IF* your bad guy is sticking straight to your ***
through several revolutions then you aught to move on
to something else like a scissor or spiral dive.

[Mix and Match!

Don't be afraid to begin a barrel roll, but 3/4 of the
way through turn it into a yo-yo turn or spiral dive.


If you have the choice, use a climbing manuever
instead of a diving manuever or flat manuever.

Any extra bit of altitude you can steal is more energy
available later.


There are several manuevers used (like scissors,
spiral dive, or break turn) are dependent on the
attacker to try and pull a lead shot and sacrificing
their energy in the process.

Let's say you have a head-on merge with your attacker,
the 109 decides to dive underneath you in a

What to do?

Instinct tells you to dive on his *** and fill him
full of lead! KILL, KILL, KILL!

Me? I would perform the opposite, a nice easy climbing
turn. This creates a nice altitude seperation between
him and me so that he has to climb up to me (and get
nice and slow) in order to engage.

At this point, you have the option of diving on him if
he tries to run away, hanging out high and safe
(recommended) to see if he will climb back up to
you... the point is, you've got ALL the options and
safety, while your opponent just threw away his.

Playing follow the leader is NOT always the best
decision, for a lot of reasons we can get into when we
discuss lag, pure, and lead pursuit.



Lead, lag and pure pursuit.

These are the descriptions of exactly HOW you are
following your bad guy.

Pure pursuit is when you have your gunsight centered
on the bad guy as you go through a turn. This requires
you to pull more G's than your opponent and/or be
slower to maintain tracking.

Lead pursuit is when you have your gunsight pointing
AHEAD of your target in a turn, normally to obtain a
firing solution or "cut the circle" on a faster
aircraft out of immediate guns range.

Lag pursuit is when you have your gunsight pointing
BEHIND your target while in a turn. This is used
primarily when you are trying to retain more energy
than your opponent and more or less just stick behind

In essence, the Lag Pursuit angle will allow you to
"follow" your bad guy through his manuevers because
you will, in effect BE following directly in the same
line of path.

Imagine two cars going around a curve. If the
"pursuit" car follows the SAME path around the curve,
the nose of the car will be pointed in a line-of-sight
just behind the car in front of them. Same concept in
air combat.

If you don't have an immediate firing solution or for
some reason need to wait for the "perfect" shot (like
you're almost out of ammo).. you can jockey behind
your bad guy and wait for him to make a mistake.

Ask yourself this: What is it a bad guy can do that
completely freaks you out the most?

Answer: Stick to your ***, looking like he's going to
kill you at any given second... GAAAAAH I CAN'T SHAKE


So, if you know this is what freaks YOU out the most,
DO IT TO THE OTHER GUY. I guarantee you that the
"other" side has just as many pilots that feel the
same way you do.

If you've got some ammo to burn, fire off a couple
taps of the trigger here and there to give them
something MORE to worry about. This will usually
induce them to reverse direction across your field of
view and if you can &gt;ANTICIPATE&lt; where their plane is
GOING to be after the reversal, you will be in a
perfect position to unload your airframe and fill him
full of lead.

More to ponder about lag, lead and pure pursuit:

It is often wise to maintain yourself in a lag-pursuit
disposition so that your quarry believes you are
"sticking with him" no matter how tight he turns..
this is where 90% of the "OMFG THIS 109 TURNED WITH MY
HURRICANE!" posts come from in the Hangar forums.

Because after they reach this mental-freak out level
they will do something stupid like snap roll, auger,
or reverse back across your guns.

If they continue to flat turn and you still have all
this extra energy, try pulling your nose above the
horizon a bit as you keep it behind your opponent...

This will slow you down a bit, tightening your
turn-circle but at the same time keeping your energy
state higher (with more altitude). At this point, you
can chose to try and cash in your E advantage for a
snap shot...

Transition to LEAD pursuit (gun solution) and squeeze
off a good solid burst (hopefully at convergence,
right?) where he is GOING to be when your bullets get

Essentially, but pulling your nose ABOVE your bandit
in the turn you are performing a "HI YO-YO". This is
OFTEN used by aircraft that find themselves faster
than their quarry and unable to turn as tight.

As is discussed in our YOYO section, this allows the
faster, wider-turning aircraft to "cut the corner" on
the slower, tighter-turning aircraft and obtain a
momentary firing solution.


The first and foremost thing that you must grasp about
air combat is that nothing is black or white.

A Blenheim can BnZ a 109..

A 109 can TnB with a Hurricane..

It ALL comes down to the almighty "E".

Energy is the currency you use to "purchase" manuevers
and he who has the most "E", has the most options.

Every manuever you can possibly discuss in air combat
more or less comes down to RELATIVE positioning and
energy states for the two (or more) aircraft.

Let's say you're tooling around up at 5km enroute to
your target (with your wingman, right?) in your Hawk75
and you see a 109e4 also tooling around below you
about 1-2km.

YOU hold all the cards at this point. You can keep on
trucking and he will most likely never catch you
before you can reach safety because climbing up to you
means he is going to be getting SLOW.

If he sees you and begins climbing up to you, perhaps
hold off on diving in for the kill. Play the chess
game and use your noggin. Allow him to use up all of
his options and then take your pick of the litter.

Let's assume our 109 sees you and begins climbing up
towards you in a zoom climb. Pull YOUR aircraft into
aclimb as well, keeping a close eye on him below you.
Once you recognize that he is REAL slow, not gaining
on you any more and about to flop-over... THAT is the
moment you wing over and line him up while he is stuck
hanging there in mid air unable to do anything about

Or, not! If you don't feel like you've got a good shot
opportunity, you dont HAVE to take it... because
you're sitting all nice and safe up on your perch.
Perhaps reverse your direction, and watch what the 109
driver does from there. If he begins to climb back up
to you nice and slow but steady this time... start a
nice slow spiral climb that will force him to pull his
nose around sharper and sharper and higher and higher
to try to get his guns pointed at you... this will
ALSO stall him out and give you a nice juicy
opportunity for a shot.

You've probably seen 109E4's do this to YOU a hundred
times because THEY have had the advantage of energy
and could pick/chose their engagements.

The only real difference here is that over time, the
109 DOES have a sufficient edge in powerplant to
eventually catch up to you by climbing and make up
that deficiency in energy he started with.

So, as a H75 or Hurricane driver you have to play
things smart. The good news is that with an energy
advantage or even at Co-E status you STILL hold the
greater advantage relatively because the 109e4 is less
manueverable (generally speaking).

Ok, so what if we're NOT at such an advantage above
our opponent...

Let's say you're taking a bad guy approaching you at a
head on merge.

This depends on where you are at. Are you at maximum
speed? Are you at cornering speed? Are you near stall
speed? Are you at your engine's critical altitude,
above, or below?

Is he going REALLY fast (like, did he just come diving
down)? Is he at cornering speed? Is he near stall
speed? Is he at his engine's critical altitude, above,
or below?

These are ALL things that make a differnce in what
kind of decisions are optimum. Again, there is no
black or white answer to solve these questions, but
rather a bag of knowledge you carry with you and can
use to analyze the situation and hopefully make
critical decisions on the fly.


If you're using the keyboard for trim, I recommend
that you DO use the 1% per keypress.

However, you should also map a CONTINUOUS setting to
like 5% per second, and map this to your arrow keys on
your keyboard.

This also has the added benefit of allowing you to
"pilot" your plane even while injured severely.

As for convergence, this is more a personal preference
but normally I'll go for 150 or default (200m)
convergence in most planes.

In the Allied rides, if your 109 is filling your gun
circle wingtip to wingtip, they are 100m from you. If
they fill up just 1/2 of the gunsite, they are 200m
from you. This is the default convergence (200m).

The other thing to keep in mind is that WWIIOL models
projective velocity, drop and deceleration over time.
This means the farther out your bad guy is, the less
penetration/damage your little MGs are going to do.

Exceptions are cannons with high explosives and the
50-cals on the Hawk81. These will all kill at extreme
range with little drop in lethality.


When taking a shot on your bad guy you need to keep in
mind what your convergence setting is. If you are
closing on them real-fast you need to fire just BEFORE
you get into convergence range. As you close to within
convergence and closer, your wing mounted guns are
going to be firing outside of the center of your

You have a few options at this point.

If you are in either Hawk, your centerline MGs will
still score hits which is fine.

If you are in a Hurricane, Spit or D.520 your MGs are
all wing-mounted... so you'll have to adjust for this
by firing slightly left or right of your target as you
get closer than your convergence settings.

My little trick?

Let's say you're diving on a bad guy that is
travelling in the opposite direction flying relatively
straight (say, perhaps chasing your wingman). If you
are firing at all with converged guns (wings) then you
are most likely going to miss with the majority of
your shots... afterall we're talking about a
high-degree deflection shot on a bad guy with a high
closure rate.

How do you increase your odds of scoring a killing
shot? Roll your aircraft so that your WINGLINE is
running the same direction of your target's flight
path... so that all of your guns line up along his
fuselage from prop to tail. It is important that when
you go for this shot that you are not pulling back on
the stick.. so that all of your bullets are travelling
in a straight line.

That way, if you fire a little early OR late you will
still have 1/2 of your guns scoring hits. Essentially,
you are setting up a stream of bullets for him to fly

This works wonders on any kind of deflection shooting
where the bad guy is tracking across your front

If he's in close under your convergence setting, don't
be afraid to pull the trigger if he isn't exactly in
the center of your gun ring. There is a GOOD chance
you'll still score hits with one bank of guns or the

The other side of this is to go with the OTHER extreme
of convergence settings. Go to the about the maximum
setting, say around 800m or so. You won't ever get a
concentrated stream of bullets impacting all at once,
but if you've got something that doesn't require a lot
of hits to kill (like cannons) you can get away with
this. It's a trade off you can use to suprise bad guys
that think they are extending away out of guns
range... especially those 109s that are pulling nearly
vertical in a zoom climb.

I sometimes use this setting on Hurricane IIc or
Spitfire Vb's... Afterall it only really takes a
handful of hits with those cannons to kill something.

On the Spitfire Vb, this means that you will have to
make some gun-aiming corrections that feel un-natural
(namely, firing to the left or right of your target
for the MGs/cannons). But it's a great way to suprise
a bad guy that thinks he's beyond guns range.


Lag Displacement Roll

This is sometimes best described as a barrel roll AWAY
and ABOVE your opponent that is either too slow to
follow in a turn or too tight of a turner... and in
either case you must use the vertical to retain as
much energy as you can while both maintaining a visual
contact on your enemy AND remaining in a superior
angles-position relative to your bandit.

If you have ever watched my original MG-1 movie,
there's a point at which I use a lag displacement roll
to try and gain angles on a Spitfire.

He breaks away and I perform a nice high barrel roll,
keeping an eye on him through the top of my canopy.
As he breaks around his turn I come back down, cutting
across his turning circle for a shot opportunity.

Essentially, let's say you're in a 109 and inside of
the Spitfire's turning radius. By virtue of what these
planes are, you cannot continue to hold this position
for long in pure or lead pursuit. Unless you have an
immediate solution on your bad guy you must do
something else or risk bleeding your E trying to stay
in a bad angle.

One way to accomplish this is to gain a bit of
separation AND place yourself outside of your
opponent's turning circle into a lag-position OR with
the opportunity to cut across his circle for a shot

Normally, this requires a plane that can roll very
well but doesn't necessarily have a supreme raw
turn-rate comparitively.

Essentially, you perform a crisp manuever that is half
barrel-roll and half HI yo-yo AWAY from your bandit,
usually wanting to incorporate a bit more vertical
than horizontal movement. As you come over the top of
the manuever you will aquire your bad guy through the
top of your canopy and assess the situation. Assuming
he has continued his turn, this will have you coming
back around the bottom of the roll now cutting across
his turning circle and obtaining a tracking firing

(Hope you've been practicing your deflection gunnery!)

In such a situation where you are in close... you
don't always have to match your opponent's direction
of travel (wings parallel). In fact, that is the
surest way to get suckered into any number of moves,
by playing follow-the-leader.

Instead of follow-the-leader in a max-performance turn
try pointing your pipper (center of gun site ring)
above your bad guy, paying attention to his flight
path and pattern.

As you come over the top of your turn and begin
slicing back down on him you will be at a slight
bank-angle compared to his wingline so you should be
able to see him just to the left or right of your cowl
before he disappears under your gunsite.

Remember also that this shot is the single most
difficult shot you can land... the 90 degree
deflection shot.

A better idea would be to stay in lag pursuit until he
does something stupid like burn all of his E in a hard
flat turn or go vertical.

If you're hanging back in lag pursuit, you'll be
keeping your speed up comparitively to your opponent
that is trying like mad to "out turn" you and probably
getting more and more pissed off and/or paranoid that
you're sticking with him so easily.

If a 109 or 110 driver insists on pushing that
turn-performance for very long they are going to find
themselves big slow unmanueverable targets to be
filled with copious amounts of lead.

The smart 109/110 driver will extend at the first
possible opportunity or try and drag the
Spitfire/Hurricane out for his buddy to come in and
nail while they're getting all kinds of strung out,
slow and unmanueverable.

It's all about flying to your machine's strengths and
minimizing your opponent's options and advantages.


Running with Scissors?

There are a few different kind of scissors, but lets
focus on flat/rolling scissors.

The best way to "win" in the scissors is to have a
plane that rolls better than your opponent because it
allows you to switch your directions quicker.

The number one thing you have to do in a scissors is
watch your opponent 100% of the time. If you take your
eyes off of them for more than a 1/2 second you are
probably going to blow it.

Ok... here's how it works:

This manuever assumes that you are not in a faster
aircraft than your opponent, and do not have the
luxury of diving away (Hawk81)... essentially this is
a last-resort manuever after you've screwed up
someplace and find yourself with one or more badguys
on your tail.

The basic concept of the scissors is to force your
opponent to overshoot you by cutting wider turns to
shorten the distance travelled by your plane by
including horizontal element to your flight path.

Imagine two pieces of string of equal length. One
string has a slight wave to it. The other has much
bigger sweeps left and right. When you get to the end
of these equally long strings, the big-wave string
will be much shorter...

While you are cutting these wider turns than your
opponent (who is trying to get a gun solution on you
and merely pointing his nose directly at you) is not
matching the width of your cuts. Thereby travelling
faster than you..

So, you've got a bad guy on your six, close, and about
to gun your brains out. You're flying something with a
superior roll rate. Begin a turn to the right hand
side, looking over your shoulder at your bad guy.
Immediately break back the other direction with as
quick a roll as possible, now looking over your left

As SOON as he begins to roll 180 degrees back to your
direction you are going to reverse YOUR roll back to
the right as quickly as possible... switching your
view to over your right shoulder.

As you continue to do this, you will both become
increasingly out of sync to the point where he will be
turning left while you are turning right.

Eventually (sometimes almost immediately) he will
overshoot in front of you and then you can go

Of course, for every move there is a counter move...

If you begin your scissors but find that he is not
trying to match your rolls but instead pulls up or
performs a big lazy roll... you've run into someone
that really knows their stuff.

By pulling up and rolling inverted on top of your
scissoring target, you're establishing yourself above
him and in a superior E-state... and also halting your
forward travel distance by incorporating
vertical/horizontal elements.

However, 90-95% of pilots online see red when they've
got someone in front of them and don't think about
anything else but going for the kill... but there are
those that are patient, and these are the real killers
of the sky.

the main difference between the rolling scissor and
flat scissor is that in a rolling scissor you roll to
the same direction (clockwise or counter clockwise) on
each reverse.

With the rolling scissor you can introduce a little
more vertical "shimmy" to the move on each end so that
you aren't tracing the same path back and forth across
your bad guy's gun sight... so he can't really get the
timing down for a snap shot.

Almost like an extra crisp 1/2 barrel roll on each end
instead of a strict aileron roll for reversal.

I'll tell you this.. I've made it all the way from
Montfaucon back to Reims with 7-10 EA right on my ***
(no lie) by having the mentality of:

"OK, I'm not trying to get into offensive position,
only making myself a REAL hard target to hit and
moving West..."

This doesn't mean to start jerking the stick around
like a ******...

You want to stay as fast as possible and as

Staying fast means not manuevering more than 45-75
degrees beyond your intended direction. So, if you're
going West, no more than SSW/NNE...

Use more roll than elevator, and don't do the same
thing exactly twice.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.


07-21-2004, 01:12 PM
These will help you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


And this excellent new one


07-21-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by exeter_acres:
OK, I just got on board and purchased IL2:FB AEP...
very nice, but I am LOST!! Can anyone point me in the direction of good tutorials for newbs..
I am OK just flying around but I keep hearing guys talk in my radio, and I don't know where to go...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few tips:

First, it's "n00b", not "newb".

Learn the Quick Mission Builder. Start with rookie opponents. The opponents you set up are coming right at ya, head on. Hard to miss em--they won't miss you. Limited maps, though. Bring along a friendly ace if you need help.

Learn the Full Mission Builder. Then you can set up some easy missions for practicing takeoff/landing and gunnery (must-do)

Get to know the UberDemon Quick Mission Builder (http://www.uberdemon.com/main.html) for setting up missions even easier (although you can get overwhelmed with all the options there).

Practice gunnery with arcade mode on (edit the conf.ini file "arcade" option to be 1 instead of 0). That will help when you're practicing gunnery.

Memorize all the key commands. (You'll figure out better setups as you go, such as using joystick software to map buttons, etc.) Use the QMB to practice using them, and learning what effect they have.

Getting good is all about practice, and that takes time. Even without practice it's worth it (that would be me). As G.K. Chesterton said, "anything worth doing is worth doing badly".

07-21-2004, 01:28 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifWelcome. The rest of your life is now officially over. Check out the IL-2 Essentials sticky at the top of this column.


07-21-2004, 05:15 PM
Hey Turo thought about subitting those articles here ??


Just thinking that they will prolly dissapear down the thread list here and the author of this site said he was looking for more material



El Turo
07-21-2004, 05:32 PM
The "Turo" diaries? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Mainly, these are just odds and ends of responses to other threads and training explanations I've given over the years here and there. Finally got around to cut/pasting them all together in one file so I could disseminate the info all in one big bunch if need be without having to dig for hours. Hehe..

I wouldn't mind if they were used on anyone's website as long as they gave me a small "atta boy" or something for the effort on there I 'spose. Better things have been written by better people, but if it helps folks out, I'm all for it. We were ALL n00bs once, you know? Just trying to return the favor for the folks that lent me a helping hand in my long dark days of n00by livin'.


I'll go check out the website and submit what I've got. If they think it's helpful, they can use it.. no prob.

Might want to rewrite some of it or at least clarify a few things in there that I don't think I made as clean or clear as they aught to be.. but I'll see about getting that done.

Thanks for the heads up. Hope it helps.



Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.


El Turo
07-21-2004, 05:42 PM
Email sent.



Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.


07-21-2004, 05:48 PM
Speaking of n00bs...got my first victory today, QM in P-38 against a 1943 Bf-109...4 on 4, all average. Beautifully swooped down onto his tail and poured him full of lead just as he was trying to climb away on me... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

07-21-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

I'll go check out the website and submit what I've got. If they think it's helpful, they can use it.. no prob.


ATTA boy S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


07-21-2004, 06:15 PM


www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

07-22-2004, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Breeze147:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifWelcome. The rest of your life is now officially over. Check out the IL-2 Essentials sticky at the top of this column.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Breeze, where do you find the IL-2 Essentials sticky? I couldn't locate it...

07-22-2004, 10:58 AM
8th thread from the top. Starts out High-res screens, IL-2 essentials, etc.


07-22-2004, 11:31 AM
Oh, I see. Thanks Breeze. Holy ****! Lots of links! My wife hates you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Can anyone recommend links they particularly like for flying tips? Tailspin's Tales looks good. Also the new I2Flying.com looks good...

07-22-2004, 12:46 PM
nice posts turo,

Best explanations I've seen yet. Wish I would have read this when I was first starting out.

aka 3./JG51_Specter

07-22-2004, 05:59 PM
Great Read El Turo, thanks m8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

El Turo
07-22-2004, 06:46 PM
A lot of that was written with another sim in mind, but I think the message is universal. I could have (and will) rewrite some of that for clarity and content at some point.

Glad you found it helpful. I'm of the opinion that if we encourage people and give them a helping hand in becoming more proficient pilots that we grow our flight-sim community and in that endeavor, we ALL win. Help a n00b today and see the next great sim developed tomorrow because there's another buyer waiting in the wings.


Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.