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View Full Version : Undervalued aircrafts true value



jugent
05-04-2005, 01:46 PM
In BoB I hope that the Boulton-Paul Defiant and Fairley Battle will get its true values. These planes have gone to history without notice taken to its true value.
The Defiant with its genius solution, it had a gun turret, on a fighter aircraft. The Fairley Battle somewhat overage but it could withstand more punishment than most other planes

I hope that Maddox team will correct this as they have proven to us that previous unknown planes can be outstanding.

jugent
05-04-2005, 01:46 PM
In BoB I hope that the Boulton-Paul Defiant and Fairley Battle will get its true values. These planes have gone to history without notice taken to its true value.
The Defiant with its genius solution, it had a gun turret, on a fighter aircraft. The Fairley Battle somewhat overage but it could withstand more punishment than most other planes

I hope that Maddox team will correct this as they have proven to us that previous unknown planes can be outstanding.

Bluedog72
05-04-2005, 03:33 PM
Both will no doubt have great value as sitting ducks and easy kills.
The reason they arent remembered with teary eye is because their crews hated them and couldnt wait to get the chance to fly a machine in which they had some hope of returning alive.

Von_Zero
05-04-2005, 04:08 PM
dunno much about the Battle, but wasn't the Defiant designed for "intercepting unescorted bombers", not having any forward firing guns?

Chuck_Older
05-04-2005, 04:18 PM
Gotta agree, I'm reading up on The Battle of Britain and there's solid reasons the Defiant and battle are not remembered fondly

In an aircraft like the P-40, for example, that had a reputation that less than sterling by most, it was made until the end of the war.

The Defiant and Battle were struck from the inventory when better planes arrived- no Defiant Squadrons were still flying in '45

ImpStarDuece
05-04-2005, 07:51 PM
Both the Battle and the Defiant, after small initial successes, were flying death traps by day!

The Defiant did suprise the Luftwaffe single seaters in several engagements, but once the 109 and 110 drivers knew what they were up against, they adjusted their tactics and the Defiant was hastily switched to Night Fighter operations (where it did suprisingly well). The fact is that although the Defiant was misued in going up against German single seaters it was a flawed concept from the beginning.

The weight of the hydraulic turret and the additional crew man meant that the Defiant was essentialy a two seat fighter looking for a second engine. It had the same Rolls Royce Merlin as the Spitfire and Hurricane, in a very clean but heavy design. The Defiant topped out at over 4000kg, about 500kg heavier than the Hurricane or Spitfire. It was roughly 30 mph slower than its contempories and had much slower acceleration.

Slow speed and no foward firing armament meant that the Defiant was very vulnerable to beam and head on attacks. In addition, hitting a fighter while setated in a manuevering fighter was not the easiest of tasks.

The Battle was even worse in terms of life expectancy for its crew.

It was approximately 100 mph slower than contemporary single seat fighters and lacked adequate defensive armament. Furthermore it was HIGHLY vulenrable to flak and enemy fire, the wings tended to fold in on themselves when hit, mostly because of the bomb cells mounted there. The Battle was officially withdrawn from frontline service in September of 1940 but it had effectively not been used as a day bomber since July of the same year.

VW-IceFire
05-04-2005, 08:09 PM
So really having a Fairely Battle is not much worth because the Battle of Britain happened around June 1940 and your saying that it was removed by September. I guess it could be there for the Battle of France perhaps?

Having a Blenhiem might be useful although that wasn't terribly well liked either.

mole_boy
05-04-2005, 08:18 PM
as much as it was clearly ****, I would love to try flying the boulton paul. U could fly them in a mixed group with hurricanes which would annoy and confuse

Yog_Shoggoth
05-04-2005, 08:46 PM
I just want a swordfish.

ImpStarDuece
05-04-2005, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
So really having a Fairely Battle is not much worth because the Battle of Britain happened around June 1940 and your saying that it was removed by September. I guess it could be there for the Battle of France perhaps?

Having a Blenhiem might be useful although that wasn't terribly well liked either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the Battle did some daylight cross channel work in May, June and July before the LW had started to set up a decent defence network. Mostly it was bombing invasion barges. It had a role in 1940 but wasn't really 'there' for the main battle.

The Blenheim was a LOT more survivable than the Battle; 30 mph faster, similar or slightly better payload, better field of fire for defensive armanent and it was about as manouverable as the Defiant, which was pretty nimble for a bomber its size. It still shared a lot of the Battles weaknesses though; it was slow, lacked adequate defensive armament and operated at heights where opposing single seaters were very comfortable. I think a lot of the early British bomber losses (particularly with the twin engined types) come from misuse and falling back on the Trenchard Doctrine rather than any particular inhernet weakness in the designs though.

By July 1940 the 1F variant was the main service type and they had mostly been converted to nightfighter operations after taking heavy losses in May and June.

Costal command operated Blenheim IV and IVF (Fighter) which was slightly better with 995 hp Mercury XV's replacing the Mercury VIII's of the I. Still, it was only 10-15 Mph faster and its celing improved anly 1000m to about 8,500m, easy pickings for a 109. The IVF, with the chin turret deleted and a ventral gun pack, topped out at about 275 Mph and was used for everything from ground support to night interception during the Blitz.

jugent
05-05-2005, 09:54 AM
"The reason they arent remembered with teary eye is because their crews hated them and couldnt wait to get the chance to fly a machine in which they had some hope of returning alive."

USAF used the aircobra for gunnerypractise, by the same reason?