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View Full Version : ATI high-end cards aren't pulling their weight...



sunflower1
06-06-2005, 09:12 AM
...in terms of sales. One possible conclusion is that the wrong price point was selected. I will be enjoying my 9800pro a little longer to see what shakes out.



8:42AM ATI Tech guides below consensus (ATYT) 15.26 :As mentioned at 8:37, co issues downside guidance for Q3 (May), sees Q3 (May) revs of "about" $530 mln vs. $576.52 mln Reuters Estimates consensus. Gross margin is expected to be approximately 29%. Operating expenses, excluding the costs associated with stock-based compensation, are expected to be about $143 million. "While we believe end-user demand remains stable, a product mix shift in the quarter towards the lower end of the desktop and notebook discrete market caused revenues to come in below expectations. Our desktop IGP business exceeded expectations, growing dramatically in the quarter. Revenues from our consumer business - which includes DTV and handset - were within expectations." Co sees Q4 revs of "about $600 mln" vs $660.4 consensus.

sunflower1
06-06-2005, 09:12 AM
...in terms of sales. One possible conclusion is that the wrong price point was selected. I will be enjoying my 9800pro a little longer to see what shakes out.



8:42AM ATI Tech guides below consensus (ATYT) 15.26 :As mentioned at 8:37, co issues downside guidance for Q3 (May), sees Q3 (May) revs of "about" $530 mln vs. $576.52 mln Reuters Estimates consensus. Gross margin is expected to be approximately 29%. Operating expenses, excluding the costs associated with stock-based compensation, are expected to be about $143 million. "While we believe end-user demand remains stable, a product mix shift in the quarter towards the lower end of the desktop and notebook discrete market caused revenues to come in below expectations. Our desktop IGP business exceeded expectations, growing dramatically in the quarter. Revenues from our consumer business - which includes DTV and handset - were within expectations." Co sees Q4 revs of "about $600 mln" vs $660.4 consensus.

Jasko76
06-06-2005, 09:43 AM
They never did, and that includes nVidia.

Only a small percentage of users (less than 5%) can/is willing to spend enough money on a graphics card that could get them an entire system.

High end cards are a little more than a show-off, most gamers still use 9800Pro/GF4xxx Ti.

Still, even more users rely on IGP.

Freelancer-1
06-06-2005, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
They never did, and that includes nVidia.

Only a small percentage of users (less than 5%) can/is willing to spend enough money on a graphics card that could get them an entire system.

High end cards are a little more than a show-off, most gamers still use 9800Pro/GF4xxx Ti.

Still, even more users rely on IGP. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember Jasko76,

Those were the high-end cards that could have payed for an entire system at one time.

When you say 5%, it dosen't sound like much, but it still works out to a substantial number of real people. There are probably only 5-10% of computer users that are serious gamers. That's still in the hundreds of thousands. It's what keeps the development teams busy over at ATI and nVidia. Thank the good lord for us hard core game junkies or we'ed still be flying wireframe planes.

Freelancer

sunflower1
06-06-2005, 10:15 AM
ATI is pretty tight with their numbers, but a high margin product that is 5% of sales can be 15% of profits very easily. It will be interesting to see how the beancounters react, if at all.

Loki-PF
06-06-2005, 10:17 AM
I think Nvidia caught ATI with thier knickers down with the whole SLI thing....

Mind you, I'm and ATI fan and I realize that SLI isn't working correctly with *our* beloved game right now... but it is agreat idea as a whole.

My trusty 9700 Pro AIW just gave up the ghost and I've decided to upgrade to a whole new sytem based on PCI-E and SLI. My new card is going to be a 6800 GT

WWSensei
06-06-2005, 11:57 AM
Nah Loki, I don't think SLI did a **** thing to ATI. Even among gamers SLI isn't catching on at a great rate. The problem is price point for high end cards and the lack of sales for consoles. That market is about 10 times larger than the PC gamer market.

ATI hasn't nailed done enough chip sales for console systems and it's hurting them. The other thing is ATI's "old" cards run quite well on some of even today's software.

I, too, have a 9700Pro and there isn't a title out I can't play and at good frame rates and quality. I've extended it a bit by adding some simple to apply cooling fins to the memory chips that allow me to OC the 9700Pro to 375/350 vs it's default 325/310-the kit was $9 at COMPusa. It's only 3 years old. So is my main computer. In my neighborhood (a sampling of 8 families mid-30s to mid-40s in age) I am the only one that owns a P4 class machine much less a top of the line vid card.

VW-IceFire
06-06-2005, 02:43 PM
The "problem" is that the previous generation of ATI chips (the 9700Pro that I have and the 9800Pro that many have) are still so good that they are working quite well and nobody wants to upgrade just yet.

I'll probably be looking at a future solution from ATI or nVidia in about a years time or so. It'll be PCI-E and I'll have DDR2 memory for my regular system RAM and a dual core chip no doubt. And that will be mainstream...give it a year or two.

AFSG_Bulldog
06-06-2005, 08:28 PM
Well I have a 9800 pro and I have been pleased with it from the start. I have had a bunch of Nvidia cards and they were great too. But I think I have had less problems with the ATI card.

Besides I never got a driver update correct the first time with a Nvidia card. The driver updates on the ATI cards are a real no brainer (which is just the way I like things).

Loki-PF
06-06-2005, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
Nah Loki, I don't think SLI did a **** thing to ATI. Even among gamers SLI isn't catching on at a great rate. The problem is price point for high end cards and the lack of sales for consoles. That market is about 10 times larger than the PC gamer market.

ATI hasn't nailed done enough chip sales for console systems and it's hurting them. The other thing is ATI's "old" cards run quite well on some of even today's software.

I, too, have a 9700Pro and there isn't a title out I can't play and at good frame rates and quality. I've extended it a bit by adding some simple to apply cooling fins to the memory chips that allow me to OC the 9700Pro to 375/350 vs it's default 325/310-the kit was $9 at COMPusa. It's only 3 years old. So is my main computer. In my neighborhood (a sampling of 8 families mid-30s to mid-40s in age) I am the only one that owns a P4 class machine much less a top of the line vid card. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All good points Sensei! Especially the one about Nvidia's connection with consoles.... I had thought that ATI had score with *one* of the console makers but guess not.

Another thing thats helped Nvidia's diversity and earnings is the motherboard market. They have done well in a mature market to slice off a piece that big. ATI is late to that party as well.

Ultimately I chose to go the SLI route (well sort of) as a hedge against accelerated obsolesence. I chose a MB that was SLI and could already accept dual core chips, but I only got one 6800 GT and a vanilla AMD 64 +4000 (not an X2).

I figure in a year or two I can add RAM, upgrade the proc, and drop in another vid card (which by that time will be el cheapo) and presto I got a new system that will be ready for BoB or what may come.

strykablue
06-06-2005, 09:52 PM
Well I don't know about you guys but I love the game, especially the graphics. I just set up an Asus A8N SLI board and got the single card with 1mb ram. As the game still needs more I have taken the punt and gone the SLI with 2 cards...only to find that it didnt't run in SLI. As of the last few days a new driver is out at guru3D.com...SLI works!
Boy is it good, full 1600 resolution, all settings max, perfect water, no stutter and TrackIR pans smooth as silk. Way it was meant to be. I'm happy to just fly around the clouds its so nice.

I guess its all money but waiting for another card to use SLI will be too late, new cards are allways coming.

Real nice, soooo much easier o dogfight when its clear whats happening. Go the Force!

-HH-Quazi
06-06-2005, 11:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by strykablue:
Well I don't know about you guys but I love the game, especially the graphics. I just set up an Asus A8N SLI board and got the single card with 1mb ram. As the game still needs more I have taken the punt and gone the SLI with 2 cards...only to find that it didnt't run in SLI. As of the last few days a new driver is out at guru3D.com...SLI works!
Boy is it good, full 1600 resolution, all settings max, perfect water, no stutter and TrackIR pans smooth as silk. Way it was meant to be. I'm happy to just fly around the clouds its so nice.

I guess its all money but waiting for another card to use SLI will be too late, new cards are allways coming.

Real nice, soooo much easier o dogfight when its clear whats happening. Go the Force! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it is different strokes for different folks. Some value their $$$ more than others and are willing to play on what they have until they can save $20 on a card purchase. Then others, like myself, and it seems you also, are into it for the gaming and will spend what it takes to get the graphics the way they want it.

I am running a 9800Pro in my Dell rig. I can understand why Sunflower will wait to see where the pricing will end up because it truly renders this game super. Myself, I find the good deals that will beat any retail price these higher end cards end up at. So I run an X800XT PE in my AMD rig. And even with the retail price of the X800XT PE at $385 right now, I still paid less for mine nearly 5 months ago.

All I know is m8's do what they think is right, and what makes them happy when it comes to this sim. No one can fault anyone else. It's good to see other gamers being frugal with their $$$. Hopefully, this will rub off on me because even though I am running an X800XT PE now, I sure wish I could get my hands on an X850XT PE. HEHEHE Why? You tell me. I'm addicted I guess. But by the time I can afford one of these, they will be like the 9800Pros are now. Brand new retail for $119! HEHE