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View Full Version : clickable cockpit for Oleg BOB



chn06
08-25-2005, 03:14 AM

FritzGryphon
08-25-2005, 03:19 AM
There's no option for 'oppose to the death'

neural_dream
08-25-2005, 03:26 AM
No, plz no.

chn06
08-25-2005, 03:51 AM
Use a Key to switch mouse move function for View or Control cockpit. Like F9 in IL2s

SeaFireLIV
08-25-2005, 04:03 AM
A clickable cockpit is not really all that important. Yes, I like it and will love trying it in BOBII, but in many ways the Keyboard is our basic cockpit switches. I mean, what next? Virtual hands and fingers?

Of course, in my fantasy mind, I`m always thinking that IF I know where all the switches are in a virtual cockpit and know when to operate them, maybe I`ll be able to operate a REAL Spitfire one day with little or no instruction! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

stansdds
08-25-2005, 04:05 AM
Clickable cockpits are ok, but can sometimes be a pain to select one switch from a row of switches when the plane is moving around and you happen to use Track IR. I'm finding this to be a bit of a problem at times in FS2004, so things like nav and landing light switches I will click, but important things like engine and flight controls are directed by joystick buttons or key commands.

zunzun
08-25-2005, 04:43 AM
Best option for me would be having both system. Clickeable cockpit and the ability for using the keyboard.

VFA-25_Peckens
08-25-2005, 05:17 AM
fs2004 is like that

HoneySeeker
08-25-2005, 06:28 AM
I'd like the option of clickable cockpit, fully duplicated by keyboard/mouse/joystick/etc controls. If it comes to a choice of one or t'other, though, I'll happily forgo the clickable cockpit.

Lucius_Esox
08-25-2005, 06:30 AM
I think implememting a "clickable" cockpit would take resources away from more important areas and imo is a bit gimicky.

asgeirr73
08-25-2005, 07:00 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif if we realy want/need it we have BoB2

neural_dream
08-25-2005, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
implememting a "clickable" cockpit would take resources away from more important areas

yes

Grunherzjager
08-25-2005, 07:14 AM
Please no! The IL-2 Series has the best view system ever, NO clicable cockpits for me, and long live to mouse view.

And you should have put an option on your poll to people say NO.

JFC_Rautaristi
08-25-2005, 07:21 AM
In this case i truly am indifferent. Currently i don't use mouse view and if we have clickable cockpits in future i propably wouldn't use them either.

DuxCorvan
08-25-2005, 07:27 AM
That would make cockpit programming even more difficult, and deprive us of BOB expanding with more aircraft. If we don't have many planes because of lack of visual cockpit references, imagine guessing besides what every switch was for.

stubby
08-25-2005, 07:37 AM
It would be way cool. that way we wouldn't have to memorize or hot key a bunch of buttons. Clicking them as far more realistic than pounding buttons on a X52 or keypad.

HoneySeeker
08-25-2005, 09:05 AM
Not really - I can learn where keyboard keys are and press them without having to look at them, just as one might do with controls in a real vehicle. Can't do that with a clickable cockpit, especially since there will always be some controls off screen.

402Cdn.Valkyrie
08-25-2005, 12:34 PM
I will not vote since there is no "no" choise for us to take!

NO, i dont want a clickable cockpit... why?
- Because it will make cockpit modelling even more a pain and we dont need that as it is.
- If would take resources away from other aspects of the modelling that i bet i most would rather have.
- I dont really se the use for it, if you are not flying open cockpit the switched in most of the planes are already moving when you press the button for that switch on either your keyboard or whatever.
- Also it would be useless with open cockpit servers, os IF it came it would have to be as a option on the server side og the game.

To be honest i cant find a single good point to a clickable cockpit, not right now really... IF someone could point some out i would be more that happy.

Tallyho1961
08-25-2005, 12:44 PM
I've seen the clickable cockpit concept in MS Flight simulator, and while it may be a good idea for a civil aviation sim, I wouldn't want it in a combat sim.

And for me, using a mouse would be far less immersive than flying with a good HOTAS.

PS - As a result of my opinion I couldn't vote.

flatlander5
08-25-2005, 12:52 PM
No thanks.

I dont want to have to look down in the cockpit, drag the mouse across the screen and struggle to click a small hotspot switch to toggle flaps or radiator or something critical like the ejection buttion while I'm supposed to be concentrating on combat, or bailing, or whatever.

A pilot would reach out without looking and flip the switch while keeping his eye on the target. For me, using the keyboard is very much like that... I reach for keys without having to look away from the screen.

If the mouse-activated cockpit is only for start-up sequence only (magnito, fuel, etc etc), that would be cool for immersion, but I doubt I'd use it more than about twice, before going back to the keyboard shortcuts.

~Flatlander

chrisongtj
08-26-2005, 06:44 AM
Anyone play Falcon 4 over here? I think clickable cockpits are useful perhaps only for a sim that complex: There's just too many key commands to remember. Much easier clicking the cockpit. Brings the immersion factor up quite a bit, with the ICP, DED and MFDS. The MFDS (multifunction display) had buttons all around the screen leading to menus here there everywhere.

For FB/PF... nah.

Edbert
08-26-2005, 07:02 AM
I voted "indifferent" but would have preferred to vote "no". I have nothing against them in form or function, my reason for saying no is due to the amount of coding and artwork effort that could be better spent on other aspects of the game.

x6BL_Brando
08-26-2005, 07:14 AM
It might be OK as an option - but I would be disappointed if it became THE way that controls had to be operated. (That's partly becauseI'm flying with one arm and quick dabs from stick to keyboard are just about manageable.) The idea of having to use the mouse to raise gear, for example, would have me out of the game very quickly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

So, not indifferent; just unable.

WWSensei
08-26-2005, 07:33 AM
clcickable as long as keyboard equivalents can still be mapped. I'd hate for it to be the ONLY option to flip switches.

Would prefer if the expended the effort to incorporate something like GoFlight for external hardware module switches to work properly or at least clean up the abomination that is devicelink...

F19_Orheim
08-26-2005, 03:13 PM
I vote "no"... at least on a keyboard you know where that key is.. all the time... different switches in different cockpits ie magnetos, in a wider variety of planes, THAT could be troublesome. Maybe as an option but I would prefer Maddox' gang to focus on more important stuff

Beside, is it at all possible to make "clickable" cockpits in a fully 3D cockpit with 6DOF environment? I mean, the "sensetive" spot fot the switched must move depending on from where you look?

Chuck_Older
08-26-2005, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
There's no option for 'oppose to the death'

there's no option but I too want no part of a mouse click interface.

LEXX_Luthor
08-26-2005, 05:27 PM
Wow! Well Done everybody!

Lucius_Esox::
I think implememting a "clickable" cockpit would take resources away from more important areas and is a bit <span class="ev_code_yellow">gimicky</span>.

Grunherzjager::
Please no! The IL-2 Series has the best view system ever, NO clicable cockpits for me, and long live to mouse view.

DuxCorvan Sexperten Translater Extraordinaire::
That would make cockpit programming even more difficult, and deprive us of BOB expanding with more aircraft. If we don't have many planes because of lack of visual cockpit references, imagine guessing besides what every switch was for.


HoneySeeker::

stubby:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Clicking them as far more realistic than pounding buttons on a X52 or keypad. Not really - <span class="ev_code_yellow">I can learn where keyboard keys are and press them without having to look at them, just as one might do with controls in a real vehicle. Can't do that with a clickable cockpit, especially since there will always be some controls off screen.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tallyho1961::
I've seen the clickable cockpit concept in MS Flight simulator, and while it may be a good idea for a civil aviation sim, I wouldn't want it in a combat sim.



flatlander5::
I dont want to have to look down in the cockpit, drag the mouse across the screen and struggle to click a small hotspot switch to toggle flaps or radiator or something critical like the ejection buttion while I'm supposed to be concentrating on combat, or bailing, or whatever.

A pilot would reach out without looking and flip the switch while keeping his eye on the target. For me, using the keyboard is very much like that... I reach for keys without having to look away from the screen.

If the mouse-activated cockpit is only for start-up sequence only (magnito, fuel, etc etc), that would be cool for immersion, but <span class="ev_code_yellow">I doubt I'd use it more than about twice, before going back to the keyboard shortcuts.</span>


x6BL_Brando::
It might be OK as an option - but I would be disappointed if it became THE way that controls had to be operated. <span class="ev_code_yellow">(That's partly becauseI'm flying with one arm</span> and quick dabs from stick to keyboard are just about manageable). The idea of having to use the mouse to raise gear, for example, would have me out of the game very quickly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

So, not indifferent; just unable.


F19_Orheim::
I vote "no"... at least on a keyboard you know where that key is.. all the time... different switches in different cockpits ie magnetos, in a wider variety of planes, THAT could be troublesome. Maybe as an option but I would prefer <span class="ev_code_yellow">Maddox' gang to focus on more important stuff.</span>

Beside, is it at all possible to make "clickable" cockpits in a fully 3D cockpit with 6DOF environment? I mean, the "sensetive" spot fot the switched must move depending on from where you look?

Chuck_Older::
I too want no part of a mouse click interface.
Think how slow and Stuttery the mouse cursor would move inside the running game -- think of mouse when mini-map is open.

major_setback
08-26-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:

...Beside, is it at all possible to make "clickable" cockpits in a fully 3D cockpit with 6DOF environment? I mean, the "sensetive" spot fot the switched must move depending on from where you look?

Yes, that's exactly what BoB wings of Victory will have. If you haven't seen the in-cockpit video of take-off and landing, then you really should. This shows exactly that; clickable switches and 6DOF. Found here:

http://gamershell.com/news/24265.html

leeG727
08-26-2005, 07:22 PM
Mouse clickable cockpit switches? NO!

If we had touch screens maybe.

I use CH Products€ Fighter Stick, Pro-Throttle, Quadrant and Pro-Pedals. I got 13 axis, 60 buttons and a min-joystick. All programmable in 3 modes, with press, release and shift function in each mode, this rig gives me around 720 button positions. Set this up at any desk and you have as €œreal€ a cockpit as the wife is likely to allow. Total immersion.

TheGozr
08-27-2005, 01:43 AM
Everething is map to keyboards or others peripheric, why the mouse ? it's aweful

HoneySeeker
08-27-2005, 01:50 AM
Oh, the mouse is wonderful - as a poor man's TrackIR. For operating switches, levers, and buttons, however... it would be nice to have the option for those that like such a control method, but completely evil if it were the only method available.

VVaFFenPanZZeR
08-27-2005, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

Of course, in my fantasy mind, I`m always thinking that IF I know where all the switches are in a virtual cockpit and know when to operate them, maybe I`ll be able to operate a REAL Spitfire one day with little or no instruction! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


LoLoLoLoLoLoL Yeah right

Aaron_GT
08-27-2005, 06:54 AM
Clickable cockpits will be very useful when we have head tracking, full VR goggles (rather than monitors) and some sort of data glove rather than a mouse. You'd need a clickable cockpit with full VR goggles as you won't be able to see the keyboard any more!

tttiger6BL
08-27-2005, 08:26 AM
Obviously, no one here flies Falcon 4.0.

You can do it with the keyboard OR with joystick buttons OR with all the switches and dials in the cockpit.

We can have all three in BoB.

To me, it really adds to the immersion to have to know where all those controls are, what they do and how to operate them.

You should have checklists and be required to do things in the proper order...not just push a single key stroke to start your engine.

But, F4 is a hard core sim and the instructional manual is 718 pages long.

Definitely not for the plug-and-play arcaders who fly in the PF Dogfight arenas and could care less about the historical aircraft, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Personally, I'm as much interested in the sim as in the game. Knowing the cockpit layout is an important part of real flying. They keyboard is just a poor substitute. And, in WWII they didn't use sticks with a jillion buttons on them.

I vote aye on clickable cockpits.

And I vote aye for realism and good modeling.

ttt

TROOPER117
08-27-2005, 09:03 AM
I fly the Realair Spit with FS2004...On take off, in flight and landing drills I keep to the clickable cockpit with Trackir, Can't say I have a major problem with it really!
I can understand why people are a bit stand offfish about it...and I have to admit it did take a little getting used to, but its like anything else, don't rubbish it until you have used it intensivly and given it a good try.
I'll admit I've yet to use it in combat, but that will get a real good try out in BoB WoV shortly...

Regards...Dave S. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TooCooL34
08-27-2005, 09:09 AM
NO NO NO

georgeo76
08-27-2005, 09:53 AM
Oleg has already said that startup procedure for BOB would be simplified like IL2, so I figure that most of the switches in cockpit are going to be useless anyhow. What's to click?

chn06
08-27-2005, 10:21 AM
But,In My mind, I hope Oleg BOB is a Great flight sim, Not olny a combat flight game..

almost of us will no chance to fly a real Spitfire or 109, but if we can, we need them living in "Matrix" .. forever, Let us, or our father, or our son learn to fly,learn knowledge about plane and flight and history..

from OLEG-BOB Spitfire's video we can see BOB will more complex than il2, I hope O-BOB's fullreal setting can let us flying a more real plane..I hope clickable cockpit,with MY 6DOF trackIR

LEXX_Luthor
08-28-2005, 06:32 PM
It could work, after all... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

CPS_Bomber::
To toggle between standard cockpit panning and interactive cockpit, click with the right mouse button.

~ http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1728

Apparently, it would be nice use mouse view, switch to click mode, and back to mouse view.

Still, its physically more realistic to use a keyboard. And I will stay with that until Pleg can build a real physical cockpit for all Flyable planes and ship them to all players (requiring real cockpit simulator should minimize the BoB Flyable planes to P-51D and Fw-190D alone).

FritzGryphon
08-28-2005, 06:38 PM
I believe Pleg nixed the idea of clickable cockpit as well, saying it'd take a lot of extra time to impliment, for something that'd be used once, and never again.

But then, they did spend the time importing the Bi-1... *rimshot*

LEXX_Luthor
08-28-2005, 07:55 PM
Fritz::
I believe Pleg nixed the idea of clickable cockpit as well, saying it'd take a lot of extra time to impliment, for something that'd be used once, and never again.

But then, they did spend the time importing the Bi-1... *rimshot*
Yes, we use it once and never again. Its like those Pilot Videos for the sims that need them for content.

*Think* Fully Interactive Cockpit

To move throttle, you must look down to the lower left inside cockpit and move the mouse to the throttle knob and drag with the mouse. In real life, you don't have to look to grab the throttle. Anyways, imagine how uncomfortable it would be using mouse to work the I-185 throttle -- an ergonomic catastrophe.

Pleg made a good call here on click cockpits (and BI-1 too for Dynamic Campaign -- it was being massed produced for military use by the real life people who fought World War 2, something we computer gamers have no concept of).

chn06
08-28-2005, 11:29 PM
Not necessarily all control as throttle,Mixture or prop etc.can clickable.
As Magneto,fuel pump,light switch,electricity switch,trim for instrument,landing gear,flaps,Radiator,etc.can clickable, it's can saving more control key.

one principia: not frequently but necessary control,let them can clickable

ImpStarDuece
08-29-2005, 06:35 AM
No thanks, we have keyboards for a reason.

Aaron_GT
08-29-2005, 07:37 AM
To move throttle, you must look down to the lower left inside cockpit and move the mouse to the throttle knob and drag with the mouse. In real life, you don't have to look to grab the throttle. Anyways, imagine how uncomfortable it would be using mouse to work the I-185 throttle -- an ergonomic catastrophe.

What I am looking forward to is the point at which we will wear gloves (with tactile feedback) that can track hand positions, head tracking, and full VR goggles. Then to move the throttle you plane where the throttle is, and move it. This stuff was all the rage 10 or so years ago, and we were told it would be 'coming soon' for home use, but whilst the head tracking and goggles are coming (slowly) the gloves seem to have vanished off the horizon.

LEXX_Luthor
08-29-2005, 04:56 PM
I see your point, but I don't want to put on a whole flight suit wired to the computer to play a sim. Mouse, keyboard, stick and rudders are just fine. Imagine if they will make pressure suits for flight simmers -- pull Gees and the suit inflates on you (and P-51 wing grafic seperates from P-51 fuselage grafic). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Dumbo_AK32nd
08-30-2005, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
There's no option for 'oppose to the death'

Agreed, FritzGryphon. I've always hated interactive cockpits...they've never added to the immersion factor for me, and only make the whole "flying" experience a bigger pain in the $%#$% IMHO.

tttiger6BL
08-30-2005, 05:12 PM
My guess is that many of the nay-sayers never have flown a clickable cockpit.

Lexx's argument is the silliest. No, you don't operate the throttle with your cursor. Every joystick has a throttle on it.

The commands are duplicated in the cockpit, on the keyboard and some by stick buttons. If you have Voice Activated Controls, you can say "wheels up" and the wheels will come up. But VAC just duplicates existing methods, it doesn't replace anything.

The idea is to give options. To me, using the switches in F4.0 AF cockpit provide an enormous increase in reality and immersion. (I still have to use the keyboard when I'm in the 3D cockpit because the buttons only are clickable in the 2D cockpit).

Do you drive your car with a computer keyboard? Would driving a simulation of your car with a keyboard be realistic?

No, you use the switches and dials.

But no one is suggesting that they keyboard, stick buttons or VAC be taken away and completely replaced by clickable cockpits.

As usual, no response from Saint Oleg, so, who knows if he's even reading this debate or even cares.

But I have a feeling many of those objecting never even have tried it.

ttt

HoneySeeker
08-30-2005, 05:28 PM
It's not so much a question of driving your car with a keyboard versus switches and dials, but rather do you use physical controls (keyboard) or virtual ('interactive' cockpit)? Using the keyboard is actually closer to reality. You reach out and flip a switch or press a button, without ever having to look at the control - just as when you drive a car.

If it were possible to have both, then so much the better; but if resources dictate that only one approach is possible then I would certainly prefer to use the keyboard.

Dumbo_AK32nd
08-30-2005, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by tttiger6BL:
My guess is that many of the nay-sayers never have flown a clickable cockpit.

Well, I have.

Janes F/A-18 and Rowan's Battle of Britain (with the BDG upgrades)...

...and I hated the clickable cockpit in both of 'em.

Just a matter of personal taste, I guess. So it would be nice to have it optional in Oleg's BoB to satisfy both of us! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-30-2005, 07:14 PM
tttiger6BL::
Lexx's argument is the silliest. No, you don't operate the throttle with your cursor. Every joystick has a throttle on it.
Yes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Lexx's rather extreme argument exposes the Silliness of the Computer Click Cockpit -- forcing the pilot to pan view around the cockpit looking for controls that were normally operated by feel and memory of position.

LEXX_Luthor
08-30-2005, 08:53 PM
That said, there are some things that may be nice in a Click Cockpit...engine starting procedure for example. I would imagine this to be a head down activity, with the pilot staring down into the pit fiddling with knobs and buttons. Still, the keyboard is more realistic as a control panel approximation -- for World War 2 anyay, not like the Super Sticks with whole keyboards mapped to joystick buttons which are quite suitable for more modern aircraft like in The LOMACs or The Falcons.

LEXX_Luthor
08-31-2005, 12:36 AM
mmm, fuel tank selectors. That might be something that could work with Click Cockpits. Any other possibilities?

Early jet-age strategic interception simulations (none made so far) would be largely head down inside the cockpit affairs, so this could be a plus with all the cockpit workload of the early jet interceptors. They say the ancient R-8 air-air missiles required throwing a thousand switches to launch. Pleg needs to start making his 1950-1970 jet sim.