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View Full Version : Inching Upwards - Part 2



jayhall0315
07-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Hey Fellow IL2 Fans,

About three weeks ago, I posted a thread entitled 'Inching Upwards' where I indicated that I had run across about four or five guys (all extremely good) who seemed to just hang right on the clouds at about 140 kph but never seemed to stall and always inched up higher than me in a one on one dogfight (even if I had a superior airframe). As soon as I would stall out or have to pitch over (to avoid losing total control), they too would pitch over right onto my six within ~3 to 20 seconds (since they had climbed higher) usually and blow off my wing. Of course wondering how they did this, I was asking all types of questions about prop pitch, flaps, and trim when ascending.

Actually, after some experimentation, I found it had nothing to do with complex engine management (CEM). What was happening is that we would both approach each other head on in our initial pass and the opponent would take a slight dive to pick up speed before climbing after he passed me. I too, was doing a dive but a slightly deeper dive than my opponent usually to pick up even more speed (even if I had started at an initially higher altitude, which I was now shamelessly giving up - this is Mistake #1). And we would then end up approaching each other again after our Immelmans at almost the same height but my opponent upon seeing this would simply start to climb again and I was continuing on in level flight in the hopes of catching his underbelly with shots as he climbed again (since our speeds were now much lower)(this was Mistake #2).

Another problem that I was having was approaching opponents, even if I had the altitude advantage, by lowering myself too far down to their level (or even slightly below their level). I found that as we pass each other if I stay just 50 to 200 m higher during the initial pass, then I begin to climb steeply, I maintain all the advantage (provided we are both in same model of plane). Usually if they are a veteran or intermediate level flier, they try to follow with their own steep climb but they just stall out or roll over and now I am the guy who is floating on the clouds at 150 kph and watching them with external views. As soon as they flop over, I just pitch down on them and start to fire.

It is one of those 'Duh, damn, how dumb are you ?' moments that should have struck me sooner but didnt, but it has made all the difference in the world. You know, it is one thing to look at an equation that describes the conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy in an academic sense, but quite another feeling to realize it viscerally. Facing some of those five guys since this discovery has had a very different outcome.

Jay

jayhall0315
07-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Hey Fellow IL2 Fans,

About three weeks ago, I posted a thread entitled 'Inching Upwards' where I indicated that I had run across about four or five guys (all extremely good) who seemed to just hang right on the clouds at about 140 kph but never seemed to stall and always inched up higher than me in a one on one dogfight (even if I had a superior airframe). As soon as I would stall out or have to pitch over (to avoid losing total control), they too would pitch over right onto my six within ~3 to 20 seconds (since they had climbed higher) usually and blow off my wing. Of course wondering how they did this, I was asking all types of questions about prop pitch, flaps, and trim when ascending.

Actually, after some experimentation, I found it had nothing to do with complex engine management (CEM). What was happening is that we would both approach each other head on in our initial pass and the opponent would take a slight dive to pick up speed before climbing after he passed me. I too, was doing a dive but a slightly deeper dive than my opponent usually to pick up even more speed (even if I had started at an initially higher altitude, which I was now shamelessly giving up - this is Mistake #1). And we would then end up approaching each other again after our Immelmans at almost the same height but my opponent upon seeing this would simply start to climb again and I was continuing on in level flight in the hopes of catching his underbelly with shots as he climbed again (since our speeds were now much lower)(this was Mistake #2).

Another problem that I was having was approaching opponents, even if I had the altitude advantage, by lowering myself too far down to their level (or even slightly below their level). I found that as we pass each other if I stay just 50 to 200 m higher during the initial pass, then I begin to climb steeply, I maintain all the advantage (provided we are both in same model of plane). Usually if they are a veteran or intermediate level flier, they try to follow with their own steep climb but they just stall out or roll over and now I am the guy who is floating on the clouds at 150 kph and watching them with external views. As soon as they flop over, I just pitch down on them and start to fire.

It is one of those 'Duh, damn, how dumb are you ?' moments that should have struck me sooner but didnt, but it has made all the difference in the world. You know, it is one thing to look at an equation that describes the conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy in an academic sense, but quite another feeling to realize it viscerally. Facing some of those five guys since this discovery has had a very different outcome.

Jay

Pigeon_
07-18-2008, 05:03 PM
Good for you Jay!

I love it when you actually have to learn a game and play it smart, instead of the usual out-of-the-box-carnage. Well... IL2 also falls into the last category, but for new players, the carnage usually is on the wrong end...! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I don't think you ever stop learning in this game and that's what I love about it so much! So, good luck to you in the future and happy landings! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jayhall0315
07-18-2008, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pigeon_:
Good for you Jay!

I love it when you actually have to learn a game and play it smart, instead of the usual out-of-the-box-carnage. Well... IL2 also falls into the last category, but for new players, the carnage usually is on the wrong end...! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I don't think you ever stop learning in this game and that's what I love about it so much! So, good luck to you in the future and happy landings! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a recent newbie myself, I must say (although I am not actually that big of gamer) that IL2 is by far the 'deepest' game that I have come across. The only other games that I ever really spent more than about 10 hours on were Morrowind and Oblivion and even those were not challenging in an intellectual sense. IL2 is like the giant ole onion analogy, where you keep peeling back another layer to reveal something you did not realize was there in the first place. I like to think of myself as man of at least average intelligence but I keep getting to these new levels where I say, "dang, why was that not apparent to me in the beginning" - LOL

I am sure I am not at the top of the ladder yet, but the journey is fun.

Jay