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ake109
05-06-2007, 01:03 AM
So, there I was flying along the eastern coast of the Malayan Peninsula in a Hurricane from 243 Squadron when the IJN decides to trespass on British Empire territory.

Thinking to myself, Ha! G4Ms! Damn flying gas cylinders! A quick rake with 8 of His Majesty's best from 300 yards and they'll turn into a great big flaming soup in the tropical skies!

I let go with all guns and see sparks and debris all over the bloomin' place but the damed Betty was stil not going down. Another couple seconds of full bursts and the famed flying lighter was still showing no trace of smoking!

Hit Ctrl-F2, expecting to admire my handiwork and a pockmarked G4M but.... HWHAT??! The damn thing did not have even a single scratch on it!

So. Did the game model the Betty correct? Are 7.62 rounds supposed to bounce off G4M skin?

And before you lot comment on my aiming. I am damn sure it was mostly connecting due to the sparks and debris flying from the Betty.

ake109
05-06-2007, 01:03 AM
So, there I was flying along the eastern coast of the Malayan Peninsula in a Hurricane from 243 Squadron when the IJN decides to trespass on British Empire territory.

Thinking to myself, Ha! G4Ms! Damn flying gas cylinders! A quick rake with 8 of His Majesty's best from 300 yards and they'll turn into a great big flaming soup in the tropical skies!

I let go with all guns and see sparks and debris all over the bloomin' place but the damed Betty was stil not going down. Another couple seconds of full bursts and the famed flying lighter was still showing no trace of smoking!

Hit Ctrl-F2, expecting to admire my handiwork and a pockmarked G4M but.... HWHAT??! The damn thing did not have even a single scratch on it!

So. Did the game model the Betty correct? Are 7.62 rounds supposed to bounce off G4M skin?

And before you lot comment on my aiming. I am damn sure it was mostly connecting due to the sparks and debris flying from the Betty.

WTE_Ibis
05-06-2007, 01:12 AM
Quote: "I let go with all guns and see sparks and debris all over the bloomin' place but damed Betty was stil not going down."
--------------------------------------

She gave me a knock back the other night too, sparks were flying!
I was also told that she was easy.
Just goes to show don't believe the rumour mill.

.

DKoor
05-06-2007, 01:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ake109:
damed Betty was stil not going down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Listen to me and believe me and you'll survive every clash with Bettys!
Here's "how to"; Betty unlike some other bomber doesn't have it's fuel tanks protected. Since we cannot expect to flame them every time we give it a nasty look, we must choose more wiser approach.
Consisting of putting few .50cals or in your case few .303s in it's wing fuel tanks.

Pacific maps are huge and Bettys will never make it home with severe ruptured fuel tanks.

I shot down several of them with two .50cal bullets only using this tactic. Of course just to make sure, make them a few leaks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tigertalon
05-06-2007, 03:36 AM
With a hurri I'd suggest you go for rear gunner first (quite easy to kill him), his 20mm gun is deadly. Next, like DKoor suggested, go for fueltanks. Betty has 4 wing fuel tanks, one on the each side of each engine, concentrate your fire on one of them and do not spray ammo over whole plane. Betty fuel tanks also have a habit of starting the thick black smoke instead of flaming up instantly. Do not be bothered by that, as black smoke sooner or later evolves into fire and finally causes explosion that deprieves the doomed plane of the wing.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/TigerTalon/Betty.jpg

Some DMs are really inconsistent... it's for example much easier to set B25 on fire than betty... if you manage to deal with murderous gunners. For fun, go into QMB, set friendly B25 and Betty, hop into a hurri and shoot their fuel tanks (note B25 has fuel tanks only on the inner side of engines). B25 lits up like roman candle (with 303s that is) while betty needs some more hits.

Leigh.E
05-06-2007, 03:58 AM
hey how did you get the arrows in the plane please explane thanks

djetz
05-06-2007, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Leigh.E:
hey how did you get the arrows in the plane please explane thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

arcade=1 AKA "arcade mode"

Very helpful for discovering where your bullets are going. On the other hand, the speech bubbles are extremely annoying.

major_setback
05-06-2007, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by djetz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Leigh.E:
hey how did you get the arrows in the plane please explane thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

arcade=1 AKA "arcade mode"

Very helpful for discovering where your bullets are going. On the other hand, the speech bubbles are extremely annoying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is done in the 'conf' file in the main game folder. Open it using wordpad and change the line wher it says 'arcade...' to 'arcade=1'

Dtools4fools
05-06-2007, 07:02 AM
ake109,

at 300m distance and sparks all over the place I suggest:

Go in closer.

Attack with speed adavantage from higer up, move your plane to avoid defensive fire. Open fire at 200-150m and fire until you almost ram the darn thing. Pull up high using speed, then start next attack...

MG's should be set at convergence of 150m.

This way you should be able to hit with the majority of your bullets in one spot instead of spraying the entire plane. Much more effective...
But of course you will have to hit - if you miss then the entire burst will miss (most likely).

Betty will fall out of sky, courtesy of 8 of her Majesty's finest...

*****

ake109
05-06-2007, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
Betty will fall out of sky, courtesy of 8 of her Majesty's finest...

***** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HIS Majesty! Its King George VI's photo hanging over the mess!

Anyway, I get what you guys are saying. I am just surprised that after 3-4 seconds of fire, the external view of the Betty shows _zero_ damage. And you know how it is with this game. 1 hit with a 20mm or 30mm and the B17 fuselage sometimes shows 20-30 holes.

Especially with the G4M having that flying lighter reputation!

PBNA-Boosher
05-06-2007, 10:15 AM
What do you mean it's easy to kill the rear gunner? I've fired 20mm's up his a$$ at point blank range with 12.7mm UBS's in tests and the ******* was still alive.

GerritJ9
05-06-2007, 10:15 AM
If you use the Hurricane IIB instead of the I you have twelve 303s, not eight- 50% more firepower!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The IIA or IIB Far East Field Mod (eight 303s) are not in the sim.
Main thing is to avoid attacking from the rear if at all possible- one hit from the tail gunner and your engine's out!!!!! I agree about the remark concerning black smoke coming from the wing tanks, but in a campaign or single mission, your (AI) wingmen will usually steal your kill from you if you leave the stricken bird and concentrate on the next victim before the smoker's crashedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

VW-IceFire
05-06-2007, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ake109:
So, there I was flying along the eastern coast of the Malayan Peninsula in a Hurricane from 243 Squadron when the IJN decides to trespass on British Empire territory.

Thinking to myself, Ha! G4Ms! Damn flying gas cylinders! A quick rake with 8 of His Majesty's best from 300 yards and they'll turn into a great big flaming soup in the tropical skies!

I let go with all guns and see sparks and debris all over the bloomin' place but the damed Betty was stil not going down. Another couple seconds of full bursts and the famed flying lighter was still showing no trace of smoking!

Hit Ctrl-F2, expecting to admire my handiwork and a pockmarked G4M but.... HWHAT??! The damn thing did not have even a single scratch on it!

So. Did the game model the Betty correct? Are 7.62 rounds supposed to bounce off G4M skin?

And before you lot comment on my aiming. I am damn sure it was mostly connecting due to the sparks and debris flying from the Betty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Connecting maybe but those .303 rounds don't go very far or retain their damage capabilities very long. At long range you can hit any plane with an entire planeful of .303 rounds but if their velocity is so low by the time they get there then all they are doing is chipping the paint.

What was your range and just as importantly what was the deflection angle. Its better to hit a Betty with 20-30 degrees deflection at 250m than dead 6 at 250m as you can put a bigger spread of the bullets on the target.

Dtools4fools
05-06-2007, 12:59 PM
Used 'friendly drones' not to have to deal with AI gunners...

Hurri I, short burst from about 80-140m, gunsight is zoomed in about 5 steps from widest for aiming (fully zoomed in limits angle of view too much at those closes distances in my opinion):

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0010.jpg

So it needed one more pass:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0012.jpg

Completely agree with ice-fire:
even slightly from above, underneath or side will greatly enhance the effect of your hits.

Now compare this with these hits, sure had flashed all over the plane and parts falling off it, but...
Started shooting at 300m (guns set at 300m) and then lessened power, so shooting distance is 300-400m maybe.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0016.jpg

Dtools4fools
05-06-2007, 01:12 PM
Here results of two single pass with the 8 0.50cal of P-47:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0020.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0026.jpg

Note the distinctive 2 hit areas on first image as plane was not at distance of convergence of my guns but a bit off...

Second Image was longer burst, hold the trigger for a tiny moment, maybe a good second (previous one maybe just under a second).

0.50 on a B-17:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0033.jpg

Not bad but the old warhorse is soldering on...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x270/egoipse/Screenie0034.jpg

There was one more pass with few hits inbetween those two screenies, but coming in from side I hit poorly in the tail fin and aileron...not many hits on that pass but still quite some damage.
3rd pass was hit on enigne damaged already in first pass, now a few hits were enough to light the fire and knock out the engine.

*****

tigertalon
05-06-2007, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
What do you mean it's easy to kill the rear gunner? I've fired 20mm's up his a$$ at point blank range with 12.7mm UBS's in tests and the ******* was still alive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's easy to kill him with 12 light MG. It's hard to kill him with a single 20mm or heavy MG. Shotgun effect is what you need.

DKoor
05-06-2007, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
It's easy to kill him with 12 light MG. It's hard to kill him with a single 20mm or heavy MG. Shotgun effect is what you need. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes I noticed that as well!

I never go for the gunners although it's always nice to knock out rear gunner or belly gunner.... basically leaves the bomber's belly unprotected.... http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/smileys/yummy.gif

ake109
05-07-2007, 01:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GerritJ9:
If you use the Hurricane IIB instead of the I you have twelve 303s, not eight- 50% more firepower!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The IIA or IIB Far East Field Mod (eight 303s) are not in the sim.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey you are right. I never noticed it since I was used to the Hurricane from the original FB. The one in 1946 had 12 guns! Dammit! 12 barrels of Limey wrath going at it for a good 4-5 seconds and the thing wasn't even leaking!