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geetarman
04-12-2004, 11:59 AM
Been flying this bird since AEP came. It's always been my favorite and I do love it. However, it's been a challenge to fly and score kills with on-line. It's probably me, but, I really find the plane is outclassed by most of the opposing modern fighters in the DF servers. Other than speed, which later fighters match or exceed, it's really hard to avoid being shot down when someone latches on your six.

I'm not complaining about the FM. I assume it's mostly accurate, it just isn't cut out for the type of action you see on-line.

Anyone else sensing this?

geetarman
04-12-2004, 11:59 AM
Been flying this bird since AEP came. It's always been my favorite and I do love it. However, it's been a challenge to fly and score kills with on-line. It's probably me, but, I really find the plane is outclassed by most of the opposing modern fighters in the DF servers. Other than speed, which later fighters match or exceed, it's really hard to avoid being shot down when someone latches on your six.

I'm not complaining about the FM. I assume it's mostly accurate, it just isn't cut out for the type of action you see on-line.

Anyone else sensing this?

CaptainGelo
04-12-2004, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geetarman:
Been flying this bird since AEP came. It's always been my favorite and I do love it. However, it's been a challenge to fly and score kills with on-line. It's probably me, but, I really find the plane is outclassed by most of the opposing modern fighters in the DF servers. Other than speed, which later fighters match or exceed, it's really hard to avoid being shot down when someone latches on your six.

I'm not complaining about the FM. I assume it's mostly accurate, it just isn't cut out for the type of action you see on-line.

Anyone else sensing this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

fly strait and let them shot, then when they'll run out of ammo kill them:P played ones vs 2 BF's they use all thier ammo to kill me..lol and I died cuz my fuel burned out:P

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CaptainGelo
04-12-2004, 12:12 PM
J/K...fly high and dont let any1 to get on your tail...llike i p47 and get a wingman

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
04-12-2004, 12:38 PM
You gotta learn to fly it man! the P-38 is an energy fighter. You have to zoom in on the target, spray it in the right spot, either damage it or down it, use your superior speed to get 2/3000 meters away, and turn around and repeat the process. It works. Wingmen also help, but when you do that, it's better to use trick tactics to get one on your six and let your wingman shoot him off.

SeaFireLIV
04-12-2004, 12:50 PM
One thing i`ll say about the P38 is she`s a life-saver for her pilots. Twice yesterday i got close and pummeled a P38 with cannons. They literally shrug off the damage then dive for home. One P38 I saw a large chunk falling off it and thought `She`s had it` , but it just flew fast and away.

Hard birds to bring down.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

geetarman
04-12-2004, 12:55 PM
Yeah Boosher, I hear ya, I do that often. But 1) sometimes hard to get wingies on line. 2) Booms pretty well, but once caught, it is hard to get out of the jam. You can dive it and out run some of the fighters, but that seems to be it. It seems you have less "options" with the 38 than other fighters.

Ah, the heck with it! I love the plane and will fly it, even though I make a nice kill marking. lol.

ZG77_Nagual
04-12-2004, 01:12 PM
I've only had a couple of online fights with this bird. One the other night vs two 109g14s (I think) and one right after it came out. Results have been pretty good. The 109 flight was pretty enjoyable and quick. The opponents used good tactics - closing from out of the sun with an alt advantage then split - one going low left - the other high right. I was in a p38L and was able to down both in a mixed vertical and high speed turn fight. I would say the classic tactics employed by my opponents made this one of the most realistic online fights I've had. Based on their opening moves I thought they'd own me.

Offline I've been practicing in the J vs 8 109g6 set to ace. The 109 ai seems to be pretty good inasmuch as they split up and climb - eight of them are very difficult to beat but it's great practice. I've been giving them 25% fuel and me 50% but they do run out in about 12 minutes and sometimes the fight drags on a bit.

El Turo
04-12-2004, 01:18 PM
The ole '38 does pretty well for itself but you have to be real good with massaging your flap settings and dive brake to get it to dance for you.

I've found that it has enough speed to get you home when things get rough.. but contrary to what others have said, I find that taking even the smallest amount of fire disables guns and/or control surfaces.

Perhaps total structural failure is what they are referring to, but in my experiences with cannon armed aircraft, I've found the '38 to be a rather willing victim when hit with a solid burst.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

geetarman
04-12-2004, 01:23 PM
Good story Nagual, I thimk I've seen you in the plane on-line and you fly it well. Any tips about handling the 109g's?

Korolov
04-12-2004, 01:23 PM
So far the number 1 rule I can give you is: No zoom climbs. Use long gradual climbs rather than straight up zoom climbs. Even a Zeke can catch a P-38 in the zoom! So, extend away and come back for another pass - repeat as necessary.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

MOH_Cocktail
04-12-2004, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geetarman:
Been flying this bird since AEP came. It's always been my favorite and I do love it. However, it's been a challenge to fly and score kills with on-line. It's probably me, but, I really find the plane is outclassed by most of the opposing modern fighters in the DF servers. Other than speed, which later fighters match or exceed, it's really hard to avoid being shot down when someone latches on your six.

I'm not complaining about the FM. I assume it's mostly accurate, it just isn't cut out for the type of action you see on-line.

Anyone else sensing this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

THe flight model for the P-38 is not correct. This plane was feared by the Germans and the Japs boty for its speed, manueverability and fire power. This plane was a very good dog fighter which is not medeled correctly in the game. It was one of, if not the best gun platform of the war. The guns have been dumbed down in IL2. This plane should be disintegrating anything it gets a good burst on. In fact I believe that most if not all the American planes in the game are not quite up to par with their real-life counterparts.

3.JG51_BigBear
04-12-2004, 02:11 PM
I think the forked-tail devil is very accurately modeled. The Germans really didn't fear the P-38 any more than any other American fighter. If you read JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, the german pilots had a field day with this thing. If they wanted to engage it they could, if not they just kept on flying (its distinctive shape was a major disadvantage). The Japnese did fear this A/C but that was becuase it had total initiative. Its superior high altitude flight characteristics allowed US pilots to engage on their own terms and the planes impressive rate of climb, ultra fast dive speeds, and the ability to manipulate the engines seperates resulting in extremely fast turn reversals allowed more pilots to make it home alive. In a low slow dogfight this things size and weight are major drawbacks.

However I do believe that there is a major problem with the armament. The fifty cals on all US airplanes seem a little undermodeled and that 20mm is really hard to make hits with.

pinche_bolillo
04-12-2004, 02:27 PM
I have had aep since the day it was released in the usa, about 5 weeks now. and I am still waiting to be shot down by a P-38. I have been rammed by 3 of them so far, but not one proper shoot down, even when they have altitude advantage. I tried the 38 for 5 minutes and I quickly found out that with my abilities the 38 is useless. the way it shakes when you shoot makes it hard to aim, plus it runs out of 50 cal ammo in 20 seconds, thats 15 seconds sooner than a P-47 w/ extra ammo. rather strange when you consider the 47 w/ extra ammo has 75 rds less per 50 cal than the 38.

so when I see a 38 coming I just do a laim evade and pretty much set myself up so that when it goes past I am on its 6. I am pretty sure the person in the 38 will miss because it is very hard to hit things with it.

of all the 1942 and later a/c in this game I would consider the P-38 the most useless of them all. I find it easier to shoot down 38s w/ a zero than I do zeros with a 38. and the guys I was playing against in the zero vs 38 were not turning with me, they were strick b n z players. when I use a 38 vs zeros I havent been shot down by a zero yet, but I find it very frustrating to try and hit something with the guns, then when the 50 cals quit firing 50% sooner than they should it just adds to my frustration.

the only time the 38 has given me a hard time is if I am in a 109 and the fight is up high, 6,000-10,000 meters. the 109 doesnt turn very well and if you keep turning w/ the 38 up that high it just might get you, so I just dive down to the deck and make them come to me, because after a few passes the energy state has burned down and then all you have to do is cem the 109 to death and you can catch the 38.

I see people use them and get kills in them and my hats off to you. I rarely get proper kills in that plane. even though I may get 4-6 kills in a 38 per plane. only 1 of them was proper (I saw the plane lose a wing, engine dead, plane blows up, tail blows off etc) all the other kills I get when the guy lands or failed attempt to land, so really I just heavily damaged the enemy a/c and he still made it to base and landed, funny scoring system.

I have even been shot down by me-110s.

ok I have to stop thinking about the P-38 in this game it makes me rather sad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg

pinche_bolillo
04-12-2004, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigBear84:
I think the forked-tail devil is very accurately modeled. The Germans really didn't fear the P-38 any more than any other American fighter. If you read JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, the german pilots had a field day with this thing. If they wanted to engage it they could, if not they just kept on flying (its distinctive shape was a major disadvantage). The Japnese did fear this A/C but that was becuase it had total initiative. Its superior high altitude flight characteristics allowed US pilots to engage on their own terms and the planes impressive rate of climb, ultra fast dive speeds, and the ability to manipulate the engines seperates resulting in extremely fast turn reversals allowed more pilots to make it home alive. In a low slow dogfight this things size and weight are major drawbacks.

However I do believe that there is a major problem with the armament. The fifty cals on all US airplanes seem a little undermodeled and that 20mm is really hard to make hits with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there are plenty of books written that contain german pilots saying that they either feared or respected the 38. when you add it all up in the eto, the 38 still shot down more enemy a/c than 38s lost to enemy a/c and in the mto it did fairly well fighting the same german a/c that the eto units did. late war missions out of italy saw plenty of action flying escort missions to germany.

just like there is plenty written on the 38 being so laim in the german's eyes, there can be found just as much written that it was a good plane in the german's eye. all you have to do is spend some money and buy books written on 38s and units that flew 38s.

one thing on its shape, if you are a lot higher or lower than a 38 I would imagine that it will be easier to see. if you are close to its altitude it will be harder to spot because it offers a much thinner profile than other single engined a/c. from the side, rear or front it is much thinner and harder to spot. right you are though it surely is an easy a/c to identify. that also has its + and - though.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg

Giganoni
04-12-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pinche_bolillo:


there are plenty of books written that contain german pilots saying that they either feared or respected the 38. when you add it all up in the eto, the 38 still shot down more enemy a/c than 38s lost to enemy a/c and in the mto it did fairly well fighting the same german a/c that the eto units did. late war missions out of italy saw plenty of action flying escort missions to germany.

just like there is plenty written on the 38 being so laim in the german's eyes, there can be found just as much written that it was a good plane in the german's eye. all you have to do is spend some money and buy books written on 38s and units that flew 38s.

one thing on its shape, if you are a lot higher or lower than a 38 I would imagine that it will be easier to see. if you are close to its altitude it will be harder to spot because it offers a much thinner profile than other single engined a/c. from the side, rear or front it is much thinner and harder to spot. right you are though it surely is an easy a/c to identify. that also has its + and - though.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehe...of course the P38 downed more German planes than it took losses. There was a little thing called Air Superiority by 1944 at the latest. So...thirty German planes against a couple hundred American ones aren't exactly going to be racking up the kills against the p38. German planes could have been better than the p38, but I would count my blessings being outnumbered.

ZG77_Nagual
04-12-2004, 04:04 PM
Nice P38 read (http://www.yarchive.net/mil/p38.html)

P38 did better in the PTO - for several reasons - the consensus is she took awhile to learn but in the right hands was a very very capable air to air fighter.

jenikovtaw
04-12-2004, 04:18 PM
my 2 cents:

If a Ki84c (a hacker plane, if you ask me) gets on a p38 six, and fires a nice burst of its 30mm cannon, p38 stands no chance and totally breaks apart. Smaller fighters get the same treatment, but are harder to get on six.

p38 = the only american plane (aside from P39) which I dont hate in il2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bastables
04-12-2004, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pinche_bolillo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigBear84:
I think the forked-tail devil is very accurately modeled. The Germans really didn't fear the P-38 any more than any other American fighter. If you read JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, the german pilots had a field day with this thing. If they wanted to engage it they could, if not they just kept on flying (its distinctive shape was a major disadvantage). The Japnese did fear this A/C but that was becuase it had total initiative. Its superior high altitude flight characteristics allowed US pilots to engage on their own terms and the planes impressive rate of climb, ultra fast dive speeds, and the ability to manipulate the engines seperates resulting in extremely fast turn reversals allowed more pilots to make it home alive. In a low slow dogfight this things size and weight are major drawbacks.

However I do believe that there is a major problem with the armament. The fifty cals on all US airplanes seem a little undermodeled and that 20mm is really hard to make hits with.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there are plenty of books written that contain german pilots saying that they either feared or respected the 38. when you add it all up in the eto, the 38 still shot down more enemy a/c than 38s lost to enemy a/c and in the mto it did fairly well fighting the same german a/c that the eto units did. late war missions out of italy saw plenty of action flying escort missions to germany.

just like there is plenty written on the 38 being so laim in the german's eyes, there can be found just as much written that it was a good plane in the german's eye. all you have to do is spend some money and buy books written on 38s and units that flew 38s.

one thing on its shape, if you are a lot higher or lower than a 38 I would imagine that it will be easier to see. if you are close to its altitude it will be harder to spot because it offers a much thinner profile than other single engined a/c. from the side, rear or front it is much thinner and harder to spot. right you are though it surely is an easy a/c to identify. that also has its + and - though.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>?The only feature of the lightning that impressed the Germans was it?s heavy concentrated armament.? (1991 Caldwell) Referring to the experiences in 1943 and early 1944.

pinche_bolillo
04-12-2004, 04:54 PM
giganoni <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Hehehe...of course the P38 downed more German planes than it took losses. There was a little thing called Air Superiority by 1944 at the latest. So...thirty German planes against a couple hundred American ones aren't exactly going to be racking up the kills against the p38. German planes could have been better than the p38, but I would count my blessings being outnumbered.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

air superiority sounds about right by mid 44, still even after this date the german could muster pretty many planes till late 44. the 38 still shot down as many or more enemy a/c as were 38s lost during its entire career in the eto. in the mto it did a lot better than it did in the eto. all the laim rumors about the 38 that survive to this day go back to the 20th and 55th fighter groups. one or both of these groups used spitfires before they got 38s, more spitfires were lost than enemy a/c shot down. these two groups were duds, even when they got mustangs they didnt do much better than they did with 38s, pretty sad too when you condisider that by the time they got mustangs the situation was a lot less desperate and they were not critically out numbered when they got into the fight. ive said it many times in many posts, take away the month of november (all 8th af fighter groups downed a lot of german a/c during this month) which is the only reason why the 20th and 55th fg did better in 51s than 38s and you will see that for all the other months excluding november these two groups did absolutely no better in 51s than 38s.

it is easy to see why the 51 and 47 destroyed more enemy a/c than the 38 did, many more 51s and 47s were being produced each month and the majority of them went to the eto and mto. while the 38 was spread out in every theater we fought in. it would be like saying the 38 is a better plane because it shot down more japanese a/c than the 47 and 51 combined. or that in the cbi theater the P-40 is better than the 47, 51, and 38 because the P-40 shot down more japanese a/c in the cbi than those 3 combined. the 38 simply had less opertunity to shoot down german a/c because a lot less 38s served in the eto. compair it to the 51 and 47 in the mto (from late 43-45) it did about as well as those two fighters in that theater.

I dont much feel like paging through all the books I have on the 38, but I do remember 3 books which have german comments on the 38

america's hundred thousand, in the section pilots comments, german pilots felt that the P-38 could out turn the bf 109 and that it had crazy to go head ons with it.

martin caiden's book P-38 the german pilot basically stated that he couldnt believe how fast the 38 was compaired to his G model and that he was chasing some and when he shot at the 38s they went to full power and left him behind in the dust.

the 55th fighter group vs the luftwaffe by john m gray isbn # 1580070043

horst petzchler "the p-38 had its positive attributes which we respected. at higher altitudes it was faster and could out turn both the focke wulf 190 and the messerschmitt 109. it was faster in a dive, but this was probably due to its being a heavier aircraft.

leutnant anton "toni" hafner was one of the veteran pilots I flew with scoring 204 victories before he was killed in octover 1944. toni said the p-38 was a hard fighter to combat and was equal to the bf 109 in maneuverability. he respected the lightning's nose armament, pointing out it was deadly when behind you. toni was quite amazed at the beating it could take and remain flying.

I remember reading similar comments in other books, but I dont remember which ones and I have about 40 books on the 38 and various units that flew them.

now back to our in game 38, it is with out a doubt the hardest plane to use in the game.

38 has the worst guns of 42 and later planes.
becomes uncontrollable at speeds of 420 mph at sea level, when it should only begin to buffet at mach .675 which is 500 mph. americas hundred thousand says mach .74 the plane was no longer controlable. the list goes on and on as far as how the game 38 vs what books say about the 38, I am too lazy to pour through my books cause I have so man, the main reason is because I do not feel like it is worth the effort. hours and hours of research just to be told its "western propaganda" I will just use another plane.
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg

[This message was edited by pinche_bolillo on Mon April 12 2004 at 04:33 PM.]

MOH_Cocktail
04-12-2004, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pinche_bolillo:
I have had aep since the day it was released in the usa, about 5 weeks now. and I am still waiting to be shot down by a P-38. I have been rammed by 3 of them so far, but not one proper shoot down, even when they have altitude advantage. I tried the 38 for 5 minutes and I quickly found out that with my abilities the 38 is useless. the way it shakes when you shoot makes it hard to aim, plus it runs out of 50 cal ammo in 20 seconds, thats 15 seconds sooner than a P-47 w/ extra ammo. rather strange when you consider the 47 w/ extra ammo has 75 rds less per 50 cal than the 38.

so when I see a 38 coming I just do a laim evade and pretty much set myself up so that when it goes past I am on its 6. I am pretty sure the person in the 38 will miss because it is very hard to hit things with it.

of all the 1942 and later a/c in this game I would consider the P-38 the most useless of them all. I find it easier to shoot down 38s w/ a zero than I do zeros with a 38. and the guys I was playing against in the zero vs 38 were not turning with me, they were strick b n z players. when I use a 38 vs zeros I havent been shot down by a zero yet, but I find it very frustrating to try and hit something with the guns, then when the 50 cals quit firing 50% sooner than they should it just adds to my frustration.

the only time the 38 has given me a hard time is if I am in a 109 and the fight is up high, 6,000-10,000 meters. the 109 doesnt turn very well and if you keep turning w/ the 38 up that high it just might get you, so I just dive down to the deck and make them come to me, because after a few passes the energy state has burned down and then all you have to do is cem the 109 to death and you can catch the 38.

I see people use them and get kills in them and my hats off to you. I rarely get proper kills in that plane. even though I may get 4-6 kills in a 38 per plane. only 1 of them was proper (I saw the plane lose a wing, engine dead, plane blows up, tail blows off etc) all the other kills I get when the guy lands or failed attempt to land, so really I just heavily damaged the enemy a/c and he still made it to base and landed, funny scoring system.

I have even been shot down by me-110s.

ok I have to stop thinking about the P-38 in this game it makes me rather sad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/230_1081512293_bolillo_loco.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have said it all! What you have said has been my experiences with the P-38 to the letter. I agree with everything you have said 100%

Thanks

Bull_dog_
04-12-2004, 07:29 PM
I fly the 38 on line quite a lot...my favorite fighter. I can't kill many 44 and later aircraft with it, but in a 43 server against zero's, 109G2-6, Fw-A-4and 5's it can be very successful if the pilot knows what they are doing.... any luftwaffe plane with boost...except for the Fw A series (which can be outclimbed) can be deadly to a 38... I kill non-boosted aircraft alot more than they kill me. Trick is to find servers with historical planesets.

I got tired of fighting late war aircraft in my pony, jug and lightning so I just started hosting my own... no more 109Z's, La-7's and Ki's to contend with in a 1943 server!

I like the way the J is modelled in general, but I think we got the short end of the stick on the L...that plane should roll better and I think both aircraft in general should be a little faster down low, accelarate much better than it does and climb a little better. But that is how I find almost all of the late war US aircraft...just a little short on several characteristics which add up to a plane that is competitive with 1943 aircraft, but not up to snuff with the late war stuff.

In order to be successful in any aircraft regularly, it must be better than your opponents in some aspect and you must utilize it.... the easiest assets to exploit for me are speed and climb...would be dive but dive simply is poorly done in FB imho...no aircraft seems to have a big edge, while a few break up quick... anyways the 38 is faster on the deck than non-boosted 109's, zekes, and P-51 B/C series...it is slower than the Fw A5 but can outclimb them so if your patient, you can put yourself in a position to strike and get out of dodge. I find that the Lightning, Mustang and Jug have no speed advantage over boosted 109's or Fw's but the stang and lightning do have a climb advantage over the Fw...trick is to start your climb before those cannons hit anything or you're dead meat.

I really, really hope BOB has better energy modelling... I suspect it will. I got a feeling that if the American aircraft could reach listed speeds like others do, the .50's got fixed, and they had a significant advantage in the dive for offensive or defensive purposes there would be very little whining... except from their opponents of course.... if only a jug would and could outdive and separate from its enemy in a significant way...this whole post would read different.... I think its as simple as dive accelaration, top dive speed and sustained energy...but that has been beaten to death in other posts.

Anyways... if you think a Lightning easy easy meat, find a 43 server and a couple of experienced lightning jocks and you might be in for a little suprise! For the full real crowd...wait till the cannons and .50's are fixed and you'll see that a lightning will go head to head with almost anything except mk108 armed Fw's and Ki's. I don't have any problem going nose to nose with 20mm cannon armed 109's and even Fw's...although it can be a toss up on who will win the head to head w/ the Fw so I try to avoid them.

WUAF_Badsight
04-12-2004, 10:28 PM
if someone knows the plane theres not much that can kill a P-38

look for WUAF_Hero

hes probably the best Lightening pilot online

CaptainGelo
04-12-2004, 11:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
if someone knows the plane theres not much that can kill a P-38

look for WUAF_Hero

hes probably the best Lightening pilot online<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He flys p38?!?!?! wasnt it p47 he was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif in?

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LuftLuver
04-13-2004, 01:35 AM
Hero traded in the P47 for the P38.

Badsight is correct, he's scoring nicely in it. I don't find it to be quite as useless as some of you mention. On ForgottenServer, I've downed Doras, Laggs, La7's, etc. BUT, these are all "damaged" kills.

This plane is like the P47, you must keep your enemy at arms (guns) length. If they get in tight, U R dead.

My only tips:

1 - Throttle back in a dive

2 - Set 20mm cannon to 1000 meters (don't ask)

3 - consider using .50s and 20mm separately

My gripes:

1 - Rediculous vibration when firing, makes Tip#3 necessary http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif This aircraft should really hit hard, and it does not. All my kills damaged planes that go off and die somewhere.

2 - Compressibility onset TOO EARLY, and much too severe for low altitudes. Cmon Oleg, the air is thick down at 3,000 meters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

CaptainGelo
04-13-2004, 01:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Hero traded in the P47 for the P38.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Cool, now he cant dive on you from 10000m and then zoom back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MatuDa
04-13-2004, 02:32 AM
Somehow I keep getting this feling that the ones who whine about the p38 fly it in a crippling way. First of all it IS a twin-engine fighter which makes it inferior to most single engine fighters in any kind of horizontal and many kinds of vertical maneuvers. It is fast and has a good shallow climb. Combine those with team tactics and you should do ok. Stay away from wonderwomanview servers so you can bounce enemy planes..

It is not a furball-dominator. It is mostly untouchable if flown right. It kills with one pass if you can aim.

Many allied fighterjocks have been spoiled by yaks and la:s energy and turn superiority and have too little consideration for "cost of maneuver" (in energy) which 109 and 190 jockeys have had to learn the hard way. Heavy planes bleed e much faster than light planes.

...Then the creek turns brown and you lose the paddle... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Skalgrim
04-13-2004, 04:14 AM
g6 was fly until late 44

most time have american fly against g6 and a4/a5

too 44

fly against those birds and you win much easier,
have not many problem with p38 defeat g6 and a5

btw, p38 can better turn as g6 in fb

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Tue April 13 2004 at 11:37 AM.]

geetarman
04-13-2004, 08:26 AM
Update- well I was on-line again last nigt in the P-38J. This time, I decided to use historical tactics (it's amazing how uniform the American tactics were in RL during WWII with this plane - read up on it).

Basically, speed above 250 mph, preferably 300 mph at all times. No sharp turns beyond 90 degrees. Slow gentle climbs and dives. High speed, gentle climbing turns.

Other than getting bounced occaisionally, I had no problem with G6's, Mustangs, Franks, Yaks, FW's, etc. You need discipline though. If you miss your gun pass, go on by and try again. Most important, run if neccessary! None of the planes caught me. If pursued, shallow dive, gain speed and start a shallow climb. I was climbing away from most of the e/a who, eventually, gave up and went after a turning, slower target. Allowed me time and distance to set up for another. Was able to knock down a 109, Stang, Ta and Frank.

Moral - fly the plane like the US pilots did in the SWP, realize you won't run up a large amount of kills, but be happy that you got your shots in survived.

paradoxbox
04-13-2004, 09:10 AM
www.freewebs.com/paradoxbox/111p38.ntrk (http://www.freewebs.com/paradoxbox/111p38.ntrk)
QMB Ace Ki-84C downed in standard turning/vertical dogfight with P-38J. Very short.

&gt;&gt;"Somehow I keep getting this feling that the ones who whine about the p38 fly it in a crippling way. First of all it IS a twin-engine fighter which makes it inferior to most single engine fighters in any kind of horizontal and many kinds of vertical maneuvers. It is fast and has a good shallow climb. Combine those with team tactics and you should do ok. Stay away from wonderwomanview servers so you can bounce enemy planes.. "&lt;&lt;

MatuData I have to say this is one of the most sweeping and poorly planned statements I've seen in a discussion about the P-38. Having two engines does not make it inferior in maneuverability to single engined fighters. Why WOULD it!? The P-38J can actually turn inside the 109G6 and G10 series, as well as most of the FW-190A's. It will also turn a bit better than a KI-84 (any version) at very slow speeds and high pitch attitudes. In actuality the P-38's in AEP perform extremely poorly in the vertical and I'm quite certain that that they messed something up with the P-38's acceleration (this was tested and proven) and there's probably something else that's preventing it from making zoom climbs, as this was an extremely effective tactic used in the pacific but is almost totally useless in both the J and L in AEP (Zekes can easily follow you nose up and catch you)

For those of you flying on 1944 servers I feel your pain. The P-38 is very challenging to make kills with especially if you have an entire enemy team of how shall we call them.. "point prosititutes" flying around in La-7's and 109K-4's.

To be honest I don't even fly on servers anymore that contain the 109K-4's, they don't fly realisticly and they were made in such small numbers that IMO it's rediculous to even include them on the maps.

If you are going to fly on a server with the K4 enabled, my suggestion is to stay WAY above it and bounce it with a wingman. Even if they have sound sonar, a fast bounce in the L with a wingman in trail formation for double firepower will usually blow a K-4 out of the sky pretty quickly. As long as you've got speed over him.

Wingman tactics are the most important thing for winning in the P-38L in 1944 servers. You will be eaten alive when alone, and you'll be just as poor off if your wingman is not very good and continually breaks formation. Find yourself a good wingman in a P-38 or P-47 and get crackin on those 109's from 15,000 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Trigger_88
04-13-2004, 10:43 PM
First nite i had AEP i was out turning Ki-84s
109s and A6ms just use a combo of speed flaps air brakes and tactics. Also when you shoot u got to lead a lot to get hits and the shaking when u fire doesent decrease acuuracy much i shot down a zeke at about 500 meters away with convergence set to 200 P-38 rocks u can also force over shoots easy drop gear drop landing flaps hit air brake all at the same time its easy! Oh yea get hits when ever it possible dammage enemy first the kill him when he hurt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

MatuDa
04-14-2004, 02:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paradoxbox:
http://www.freewebs.com/paradoxbox/111p38.ntrk
QMB Ace Ki-84C downed in standard turning/vertical dogfight with P-38J. Very short.

&gt;&gt;"Somehow I keep getting this feling that the ones who whine about the p38 fly it in a crippling way. First of all it IS a twin-engine fighter which makes it inferior to most single engine fighters in any kind of horizontal and many kinds of vertical maneuvers. It is fast and has a good shallow climb. Combine those with team tactics and you should do ok. Stay away from wonderwomanview servers so you can bounce enemy planes.. "&lt;&lt;

MatuData I have to say this is one of the most sweeping and poorly planned statements I've seen in a discussion about the P-38. Having two engines does not make it inferior in maneuverability to single engined fighters. Why WOULD it!? The P-38J can actually turn inside the 109G6 and G10 series, as well as most of the FW-190A's. It will also turn a bit better than a KI-84 (any version) at very slow speeds and high pitch attitudes. In actuality the P-38's in AEP perform extremely poorly in the vertical and I'm quite certain that that they messed something up with the P-38's acceleration (this was tested and proven) and there's probably something else that's preventing it from making zoom climbs, as this was an extremely effective tactic used in the pacific but is almost totally useless in both the J and L in AEP (Zekes can easily follow you nose up and catch you)

For those of you flying on 1944 servers I feel your pain. The P-38 is very challenging to make kills with especially if you have an entire enemy team of how shall we call them.. "point prosititutes" flying around in La-7's and 109K-4's.

To be honest I don't even fly on servers anymore that contain the 109K-4's, they don't fly realisticly and they were made in such small numbers that IMO it's rediculous to even include them on the maps.

If you are going to fly on a server with the K4 enabled, my suggestion is to stay WAY above it and bounce it with a wingman. Even if they have sound sonar, a fast bounce in the L with a wingman in trail formation for double firepower will usually blow a K-4 out of the sky pretty quickly. As long as you've got speed over him.

Wingman tactics are the most important thing for winning in the P-38L in 1944 servers. You will be eaten alive when alone, and you'll be just as poor off if your wingman is not very good and continually breaks formation. Find yourself a good wingman in a P-38 or P-47 and get crackin on those 109's from 15,000 feet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all Paradoxboxpoks I didn't say it was worse than all single engine fighters, just most. Beating even ace AI doesn't prove anything, go mix it up with someone with equal skills online and start a tnb against ki. Then you'll notice it. Twinengine planes have much more inertia and that makes them generally less nimble than single engine planes which have the weight on the axis, not on sides. Also the weight of the plane causes more energy burn in tight maneuvers. Stallfighting is another thing. BTW after saying my statement is <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>one of the most sweeping and poorly planned statements I've seen in a discussion about the P-38 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> you make the SAME conclusions as me... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Just read geetarmans post. That's exactly what I meant.

WUAF_Co_Hero
04-14-2004, 04:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trigger_88:
First nite i had AEP i was out turning Ki-84s
109s and A6ms just use a combo of speed flaps air brakes and tactics. Also when you shoot u got to lead a lot to get hits and the shaking when u fire doesent decrease acuuracy much i shot down a zeke at about 500 meters away with convergence set to 200 P-38 rocks u can also force over shoots easy drop gear drop landing flaps hit air brake all at the same time its easy! Oh yea get hits when ever it possible dammage enemy first the kill him when he hurt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mean to rain on your parade Trigger: but a lot of what you're suggesting is purely suicide. There aren't a large amount of planes that you should simply try to outturn. Even given the ability to outturn Ki's at very low speeds, it's still a very risky endevour, and best left to last resorts. Turning a Zero is purely ludicrous.. Only the J model can outturn the G6 and G10, though the L can take the K-4, and all 190's.

Realistically speaking, if you fly the 38 correctly, and seriously (not diving on the first thing you see), you can be unchallenged by all axis birds other than the Ta (which is only truely superior over 9k.

The trouble w/ the 38 that many people have, is you can't JUST fly it one way. You can't only TnB, and you can't only BnZ. Many good points were made in this thread though. To hone in on the point of shallow climbs: The 38 CAN tailstand incredibly well (-40kph holding nose up), but like stated, can be caught by most other planes. If you have the indesputible E advantage, doing a tailstand will not be harmfull, but if your alt is less thatn 1.5k over your enemy, unless they are a poor climber: Shallow fast climbs are the way to go.

There's obviously more than just that to it, but as many have pointed out: it's not a bad plane, and it's ceartinly not just useful at bombing (as some have tried: and failed: to prove to me).

GL lightning enthusiasts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.