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WUAF_Badsight
01-16-2005, 01:27 AM
i dont know where Mustang fans get off on this one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img30.exs.cx/img30/3751/mustangrockets8fn.jpg

FatBoyHK
01-16-2005, 01:56 AM
yes, I brought up a similar thread last week.... but seem Oleg won't add this, there are so many hi-priority stuffs ahead of this...

TheGozr
01-16-2005, 02:20 AM
Yak9U never carried bombs etheir.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Heavy_Weather
01-16-2005, 06:10 AM
yep, and the TB-3 was the best fighter of all time and still is. wtf? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Chuck_Older
01-16-2005, 06:20 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

If you amend that to read "Mustangs NEVER carried rockets in WWII" I might agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But my F51-D pilot training manual, reprinted from the 1954 original, tells me the Mustang carried 10 zero-rail rockets, right on page 62 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da_Godfatha
01-16-2005, 06:40 AM
Right, and the Bf-109Z UFO saw active service! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

LeadSpitter_
01-16-2005, 06:47 AM
thats a D model in japan. Someone must have seen some of the color picture links i posted in another thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have some color video guncamera clips of p51ds hitting factories with rockets in japan. All allied sides used them mostly british and american used the same types.

Maybe oleg will add them on who knows and put some hurrican5s and seahurricanes into the game he put them on the seafires so who knows. I would also love to see the bombers get thier 5000lbs instead of 2500lb max 100 fuel long range mission payload. 5 1000lbs 10 500lb for b25 and a-20.

woofiedog
01-16-2005, 07:23 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifMe-109's never chased <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">UFO'S!</span>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/Vril_7.jpg

P-51's never had Jet's also!

P-51D with Ramjets - S/N 4463528 with two XRJ-30-MA Ramjets; May 1948 Wright-Patterson AFB
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p51-21.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
01-16-2005, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
But my F51-D pilot training manual, reprinted from the 1954 original, tells me the Mustang carried 10 zero-rail rockets, right on page 62 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's an "F-51D," which means it was used in Korea, especially if your manual was printed in 54. It is definite that they used HVARS and rockets in Korea, it is not definite that they used them in WW2.

Why don't we just ask a veteran who flew the 51 in WW2?

Chuck_Older
01-16-2005, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
But my F51-D pilot training manual, reprinted from the 1954 original, tells me the Mustang carried 10 zero-rail rockets, right on page 62 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's an "F-51D," which means it was used in Korea, especially if your manual was printed in 54. It is definite that they used HVARS and rockets in Korea, it is not definite that they used them in WW2.

Why don't we just ask a veteran who flew the 51 in WW2? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um...I'm not sure how to say this, Boosher....

do you think I don't know the difference between a P-51 and an F-51, or do you think that I forgot when the Second World War ended? Your quote completetly cuts out the aprt in which I typed "in WWII"

Please carefully re-read the whole post you have partially quoted

p1ngu666
01-16-2005, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
thats a D model in japan. Someone must have seen some of the color picture links i posted in another thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have some color video guncamera clips of p51ds hitting factories with rockets in japan. All allied sides used them mostly british and american used the same types.

Maybe oleg will add them on who knows and put some hurrican5s and seahurricanes into the game he put them on the seafires so who knows. I would also love to see the bombers get thier 5000lbs instead of 2500lb max 100 fuel long range mission payload. 5 1000lbs 10 500lb for b25 and a-20. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

my books say 3000lbs max :\
been flyin b25 alot, more payload would be nice, and im dubious about its control sensitivity, easy to stall out when u try and dodge (and yeah, lone bombers would do that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

VW-IceFire
01-16-2005, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
But my F51-D pilot training manual, reprinted from the 1954 original, tells me the Mustang carried 10 zero-rail rockets, right on page 62 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's an "F-51D," which means it was used in Korea, especially if your manual was printed in 54. It is definite that they used HVARS and rockets in Korea, it is not definite that they used them in WW2.

Why don't we just ask a veteran who flew the 51 in WW2? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You missed his wink man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Camera footage of Mustangs over Japan firing rockets is plasable. Its the Bazooka tube rocket launchers...

Chuck_Older
01-16-2005, 09:17 AM
Icefire pays attention to his details http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
01-16-2005, 09:27 AM
wingracks, or mounting points
8x 100,250, 300 lb (where avalible)

or 6 350's
thats 2000 or 2100lbs, bombbay can take 3000lbs worth, if u combine them u get 5000lbs, so maybe.. b25 feels sluggish and heavy enuff already in game, extra 2000lbs itll be like stuka wid big bombs, asin it flies... just.

Zyzbot
01-16-2005, 09:30 AM
Some P-51 units did use HVAR in WWII:


€œIt was the third of July, 1945, and as the third assistant operations officer of the 78th Fighter Squadron, I was in the operations tent when we received the next day's FRAG from the 7th Fighter Command. The "FRAG" was an attack order which described the target, number of aircraft, route, ordnance, submarine rescue locations, frequencies, etc. in our orders to strike the Japanese fighter aircraft assembly plant located at Kasamigura Lake, about 50 miles northeast of Tokyo. This mission looked like a great chance to do some real damage to the Japanese war machine; and it was my turn to go get 'em! The ordnance for our 16 P-51Ds called for each plane to carry a load of six 5-inch high-velocity aerial rockets and two 165-gallon wing tanks. The 45th and 47th Fighter Squadrons were to provide us with high cover from attack by Japanese fighters during the attack. The 45th and 47th would have 16 planes per squadron, and each plane would have two 110-gallon drop-tanks. Captain Joe Fitzsimmons was the lead pilot, and I was flying his element in Code-X Red Flight€¦€
http://www.7thfighter.com/78th/history/Gordon.htm
http://glorene.com/aviation/78th/gallery/p51rocket.jpg
This photo is from the 78th Fighter Squadron page. The 78th flew the P-51 in WWII but was disbanded in 1946, so the photo cannot be from Korea. The 78th apparently used the HVAR beginning in May 1945. But I suppose it is possible that the photo was taken after the war.

LeadSpitter_
01-16-2005, 10:25 AM
thats not a f-51 be sure you is wrong.

SUPERAEREO
01-16-2005, 10:45 AM
I think Zyzbot might be right, I had also read about 5" rockets fixed on zero-lenght rails under the wings starting from the spring of 1945.

S!

MrStang
01-16-2005, 11:16 AM
€œIt was the third of July, 1945, and as the third assistant operations officer of the 78th Fighter Squadron, I was in the operations tent when we received the next day's FRAG from the 7th Fighter Command. The "FRAG" was an attack order which described the target, number of aircraft, route, ordnance, submarine rescue locations, frequencies, etc. in our orders to strike the Japanese fighter aircraft assembly plant located at Kasamigura Lake, about 50 miles northeast of Tokyo. This mission looked like a great chance to do some real damage to the Japanese war machine; and it was my turn to go get 'em! The ordnance for our 16 P-51Ds called for each plane to carry a load of six 5-inch high-velocity aerial rockets and two 165-gallon wing tanks. The 45th and 47th Fighter Squadrons were to provide us with high cover from attack by Japanese fighters during the attack. The 45th and 47th would have 16 planes per squadron, and each plane would have two 110-gallon drop-tanks. Captain Joe Fitzsimmons was the lead pilot, and I was flying his element in Code-X Red Flight€¦€
http://www.7thfighter.com/78th/history/Gordon.htm
http://glorene.com/aviation/78th/gallery/p51rocket.jpg
This photo is from the 78th Fighter Squadron page. The 78th flew the P-51 in WWII but was disbanded in 1946, so the photo cannot be from Korea. The 78th apparently used the HVAR beginning in May 1945. But I suppose it is possible that the photo was taken after the war.
------------------------------------------------

Man in the second link that looks like a Japanese soldier watching him affix his rockets.
Is it a possible POW???? Look at the classic Imperial Army Hat he has on.

woofiedog
01-16-2005, 12:00 PM
Air-Launched 5-Inch Rockets....

5-Inch FFAR (Forward Firing Aircraft Rocket)
The first air-launched 5-inch rocket of the U.S. Navy was a derivative of an earlier 3.5-inch FFAR, which was developed by the Navy from June 1943 as an aircraft-launched ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) rocket. The 3.5-inch FFAR was considered accurate enough for use against surface ships and land targets, but needed an explosive warhead for these missions. A 5-inch anti-aircraft shell was modified as a warhead for the 3.5-inch rocket motor. The resulting rocket was the 5-Inch FFAR, which entered service in December 1943. Because of the increased weight, the speed of the 5-inch FFAR was only 780 km/h (485 mph).

Holy Moses HVAR
The 5-inch FFAR suffered from insufficient speed because of its small motor. Therefore the development of a larger rocket motor with 5-inch diameter was begun, and the first test firings occurred in December 1943. When fitted with the warhead of the 5-inch FFAR, the rocket achieved a velocity of 1530 km/h (950 mph), making it a very powerful weapon for its time. It was officially designated as 5-Inch HVAR (High-Velocity Aircraft Rocket), but often called Holy Moses. It became operational in July 1944, and was used by Army Air Force and Navy aircraft.


Link: http://www.vectorsite.net/twbomb6.html





During World War II, two versions of Holy Moses were built, one general-purpose with base and nose fuzes, and one with a semi-armour-piercing warhead and a nose fuze only. Postwar developments added a shaped-charge anti-tank warhead, and a new general purpose type with a proximity fuze. More than one million Holy Moses HVARs were built until production ended in 1955.

woofiedog
01-16-2005, 12:18 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif One more bit of info...
The M-8 had fins that unfolded in the airstream after launch. It was very inaccurate, but had a reasonable punch. The M-8 was used with US Army Air Force aircraft such as the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, North American P-51 Mustang, and Lockheed P-38 Lightning.

The British developed their own unguided airborne "rocket projectile (RP)". This was a simple weapon with fixed cruciform tailfins and a tubular body 7.62 centimeters (3 inches) in diameter. The RP was originally developed for barrage anti-aircraft fire in the desperate days of 1940:41, but after the threat of invasion receded, the large stocks available were adapted for use by attack aircraft.

The RP could be fitted with an 11 kilogram (25 pound) solid armor-piercing head, or a bulbous 12.5 centimeter (5 inch) high explosive warhead. The high-explosive version was also known as the "60 pounder" (27 kilogram) RP for the warhead weight. These rockets were used to arm the Hawker Hurricane, Hawker Typhoon, Bristol Beaufighter, de Havilland Mosquito, and other aircraft.

The relatively cluttered launch rails used by the RP usually reduced the speed of the carrier aircraft by a good fraction, but the rockets were effective enough to make the reduction in performance worthwhile. The Typhoon so was devastating in attacks on German armor with the 60-pounder that it became known as "Rockoon".

The RP was also supplied to some US aircraft such as the Grumman TBM Avenger, but combat experience demonstrated to the Americans needed something with more punch than the M-8 or the British RP. The US Navy accordingly sponsored the development of an improved aerial rocket at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), resulting in the 12.7 centimeter (5 inch) "High Velocity Air Rocket (HVAR)", which was introduced in mid-1944. The HVAR was also occasionally known as "Holy Moses" because of its impressive destructive effect.

The HVAR was 1.83 meters (6 feet) long and weighed 63.5 kilograms (140 pounds). It had fixed fins and was carried on streamlined stub pylons under the wings of aircraft such as the Thunderbolt, Mustang, Grumman F6F Hellcat, and Vought F4U Corsair. It had a steel-cased warhead and could penetrate 3.8 centimeters (1.5 inches) of armor and 1.2 meters (4 feet) of reinforced concrete.

woofiedog
01-16-2005, 12:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Sorry... one more...


Prior to the beginning of World War II, the Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD) was created to oversee the development of weapons by America's academic scientists. In August 1940, OSRD placed the California Institute of Technology at Pasadena under contract to develop rockets and other weapons. On July 14, 1943, a TBF fired a British 3.5" rocket and five weeks later, the first Cal Tech produced rocket was launched. The program needed a test facility near Pasadena, so the Army released Inyokern to the Navy when requested in October 1943. The Navy built a hangar plus other support facilities at the airfield. Ten miles east of Inyokern, the main base was constructed and con sisted of work shops, laboratories, and barracks for 60 officers and 600 men. The Naval Ordnance Test Station commissioned on December 12, 1943, including a 900-sq.-mi. test range. Meanwhile, the Vice-Chief of Naval Operations ordered 6000 aircraft equipped for rockets by June 1, 1944. On January 15, 1944, CASU 53 formed at Inyokern with 31 officers and 617 men to support rocket training for fleet squadrons that arrived shortly thereafter. Development continued with the British designed 3.5" rocket which was forward firing and high velocity with interchangeable high explosive or incendiary warheads. Combat experience had shown that larger and more powerful rockets were needed. A modified 5" artillery warhead was mounted on a 3.5" rocket motor becoming the 5" Aircraft Rocket (AR). When the new warhead reduced the 5" AR's velocity to 710 fps (feet-per-second) from the 3.5" rocket's 1175 fps, a new motor was developed. This resulted in the 5" High Velocity Aircraft Rocket (HVAR) or "Holy Moses." The first test firing of the Holy Moses took place on March 29, 1944, from a TBF. The rocket's nickname was allegedly coined by Conway Snyder of the rocket's design group after observing a test firing. The first operational use of the rocket occurred in France by the Army. Both Army and Navy units quickly disdained the 3.5" and 5" AR for the more powerful Holy Moses. A full salvo of the Holy Moses gave an aircraft the fire power greater than a broadside from a destroyer.

Demand was such that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had to ration the weapon through March 1945. At war's end, however, over one million had been stockpiled. The popularity and effectiveness of aircraft rockets led the Navy to begin a project to develop a "really big rocket" in early 1944. The project culminated with the 11.75" or "Tiny Tim." With a total weight of 1290 lbs., the Tiny Tim, basically a rocket pro pelled 500-lb. bomb, was accurate at ranges to 4,000 yds., had a velocity of 820 fps, and could penetrate up to 4 ft. of reinforced concrete. The first firing took place on June 6, 1944. Several developmental problems were encountered including the launching method. A lanyard system was finally selected that fired the motor after the rocket dropped approxi mately three feet below the aircraft.

After the German V-1s began their assault on England, the Joint Chiefs of Staff ordered Project Crossbow. The project provided for Marine Air Group (MAG) 60's F4Us to attack the V-1 launch sites with the Tiny Tim. MAG 60's aircraft came to Inyokern for training in July. Delays in the rocket's development and the overrunning of the V-1 launch sites by Army ground units caused the project to be cancelled. With all the problems finally overcome, production of the Tiny Tim began early in 1945. The rocket's effectiveness during the war was minimal and very few were fired in combat. One of the two Tiny Tim squadrons was destroyed when the USS Franklin was put out of action by the Kamikaze attack on March 18, 1945.

The airfield at Inyokern was dedicated as Harvey Field on May 10, 1944, in honor of LCdr. Warren Harvey for his contribution to the development of aviation ordnance and fighter tactics. The next month, CASU 53 moved to Holtville as rocket training began at other bases. Meanwhile, the facilities at Harvey Field became inadequate and a larger airfield was needed. In June 1944, work began on a new air station east of Inyokern near the main base.

During the summer of 1944, a series of tragic accidents left the station in a state of shock. On June 20, Lt. Donald Innes was killed over the Salton Sea when a rocket under his wing prematurely exploded. Twenty days later, a similar accident claimed the life of Lt. Douglas Walhall and his crewman, Wilson Keller. On August 21, Lt. John Armitage flew into the ground from 1500 ft. in an SB2C and was killed after the launching of a Tiny Tim. Accident investigators discovered that the shock wave from the rocket's blast caused a jam in the SB2C's flight controls. The carnage continued just eight days later, when a rocket ricocheted off the ground tearing the wing off Lt. Robert Dibbs aircraft, who was killed in the subsequent crash. In spite of these grievous losses, work continued unabated.

Beginning in early 1945, Inyokern supported three Army B-29s of the atomic bomb development unit. On June 1, 1945, the Navy opened the new airfield dedicating it as Armitage Field. Harvey Field remained in use by drone utility and fleet units. At that time station complement numbered 60 officers and 732 men with 73 aircraft of 27 types. During the war, the station flew 12,000 flights and accumu lated 11,000 flight hours. Rocket firings totaled 1300 Tiny Tims, 5,000 5" Holy Moses, plus 6,500 5" and 3.5" rockets. Rockets were adapted to and test fired from the TBF, PBY, PV, SBD, OS2U, FM, F6F, F4U, SB2C, and PBJ, as well as the Army's P 38, P-47, P-51, A-20, and A-26.

Chuck_Older
01-16-2005, 01:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
thats not a f-51 be sure you is wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that to me?

If it is Lead, you are quite confused, because I did not say that the pic was of an F-51

Folks in this thread sure are jumping to conclusions about what I posted. Please re-read the post

p1ngu666
01-16-2005, 01:15 PM
p51 and f51 are same plane, they was redesignated. so all that matters is when pic was taken.

anyways corsair/p38/hellcat are better rocket attack aircraft.

if we get 25lb boost p51's, i may change my mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chuck_Older
01-16-2005, 03:04 PM
regardless, I never ID'd the aircraft

Blackdog5555
01-16-2005, 03:49 PM
I know Badsight is blind in one eye and cant see out of the other so maybe that is his problem. LOL. Just kidding Troll Meister. Every web site involving the P51D and armament states that the P51D wing has the lamenar flow wing and is capable of carrying the 10 zero rail rockets. thats P51D...Cheers..The little guy loves to make outragious, unsupported statements for jollies..heehhe cheers

Cajun76
01-16-2005, 04:39 PM
We don't always see eye to eye, but in this case I think you have Badsight misread. He's got sarcasm /on for this thread title and first post. So, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-16-2005, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
I know Badsight is blind in one eye and cant see out of the other so maybe that is his problem. LOL. Just kidding Troll Meister. Every web site involving the P51D and armament states that the P51D wing has the lamenar flow wing and is capable of carrying the 10 zero rail rockets. thats P51D...Cheers..The little guy loves to make outragious, unsupported statements for jollies..heehhe cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well hulloooo *******

do you not know sarcasm when you see it ?

fact is some at this web-board tried to claim that the mustang never carried rockets during WW2 , but seeing as your new here , i guess you missed it

now are you still trying to claim the Zero will out-dive Corsairs in FB ? & you are trying to say im the troll !

only the login is Badsight , you might call yourself Blackdog5555 but it seems to me that one-eyed would suit more

Blackdog5555
01-16-2005, 10:23 PM
Holy smoke. Well, I didnt know a ****** like Badsight was capable of sarcasm. My apology. So, Mr. "Idiot Wind" being funny. Oh boy! And yes, WUAF_Badbreath, I do have a life outside this board, so I did miss the post. And, as you generally just post insipid nonsense, It nice to see you actually know something. Good boy. Now go back in the closet. Im still laughing. LOL..

WUAF_Badsight
01-16-2005, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
And, as you generally just post insipid nonsense,.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
what ? as opposed to Zeros in FB dive better than CORSAIRS !

whats funny is seeing stuff like that dude , next time try reading what your posting about/to

VW-IceFire
01-16-2005, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
I know Badsight is blind in one eye and cant see out of the other so maybe that is his problem. LOL. Just kidding Troll Meister. Every web site involving the P51D and armament states that the P51D wing has the lamenar flow wing and is capable of carrying the 10 zero rail rockets. thats P51D...Cheers..The little guy loves to make outragious, unsupported statements for jollies..heehhe cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Keep in mind that all of these sources that you vaguely talk about generally reproduce information from similar level of sources which originated from something accurate. The problem? Most of the time thats probably drawing on the last known configuration in USAAF service...the F-51D which is exactly the same plane as the P-51D. I don't think there is any doubt that the F-51D/P-51D was capable of carrying rockets. The questions are of what type and when. The designation means little here except to date the usage.

We'll need much more concrete information if its to be decided that Mustangs were carrying HVAR rockets in combat during WWII.

It seems as if one squadron (at least) did use them in the Pacific Theater. Which is grounds enough for inclusion for me. But eh...

mucker
01-16-2005, 10:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
I know Badsight is blind in one eye and cant see out of the other so maybe that is his problem. LOL. Just kidding Troll Meister. Every web site involving the P51D and armament states that the P51D wing has the lamenar flow wing and is capable of carrying the 10 zero rail rockets. thats P51D...Cheers..The little guy loves to make outragious, unsupported statements for jollies..heehhe cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well hulloooo *******

do you not know sarcasm when you see it ?

fact is some at this web-board tried to claim that the mustang never carried rockets during WW2 , but seeing as your new here , i guess you missed it

now are you still trying to claim the Zero will out-dive _Corsairs_ in FB ? & _you_ are trying to say im the troll !

only the login is Badsight , you might call yourself Blackdog5555 but it seems to me that one-eyed would suit more <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see you are up to your old belittling tricks Mr. Bada$$. I pop in every now and then to get a chuckle out of guys like you...you are a beauty!

m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nero111
01-16-2005, 11:46 PM
The redesignation of the aircraft, 'Persuit' to 'Fighter' (P to F) happened around 1948 from what I can find out, so if the images showing the 51's firing rockets are designated 'F' then its post war.
D K H Mustangs carried rockets big time, but I think this was only effctively and extensively employed during the Korean conflict where the Ponies were used as close support aircraft for ground operations. Here they carried a host of nastys including a range of bombs, the Hvars and Napalm.
Im sure that during WW2 a lot of 'testing on the fly' went on, so its quite possible they slapped rockets on the ponies for trials. A lot of individual testing went on, initiated by the pilots and the base/sqn itself willingness to try and maximise their operational capability, not necessarily from official channels. The lack of reference info to it perhaps is the clue, that it was not a std operational practice to use rockets in WW2? If so, no need to put them in the game I reckon.

HellToupee
01-17-2005, 12:05 AM
spit IX couldd o with some rockets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

gbollin
01-17-2005, 06:40 AM
I was at my local Hobby store the other day.
While there I found a book model builders use as reference for custum paint schemes for
airplanes. One volume named Mustang and P47 aces
of the pacific included several shots of Mustangs carrying Bazzooka rockets and references to units preferring the zero length rockets because they were more accurate.

MEGILE
01-17-2005, 07:08 AM
If they had 'em, we want 'em!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
01-17-2005, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mucker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
I know Badsight is blind in one eye and cant see out of the other so maybe that is his problem. LOL. Just kidding Troll Meister. Every web site involving the P51D and armament states that the P51D wing has the lamenar flow wing and is capable of carrying the 10 zero rail rockets. thats P51D...Cheers..The little guy loves to make outragious, unsupported statements for jollies..heehhe cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">well hulloooo *******</span>

do you not know sarcasm when you see it ?

fact is some at this web-board tried to claim that the mustang never carried rockets during WW2 , but seeing as your new here , i guess you missed it

now are you still trying to claim the Zero will out-dive _Corsairs_ in FB ? & _you_ are trying to say im the troll !

only the login is Badsight , you might call yourself Blackdog5555 but it seems to me that one-eyed would suit more <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see you are up to your old belittling tricks Mr. Bada$$. I pop in every now and then to get a chuckle out of guys like you...you are a beauty!

m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch it Mucker..... or we will be saying goodbye to you for a while... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Only warning....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Zyzbot
01-17-2005, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nero111:
The redesignation of the aircraft, 'Persuit' to 'Fighter' (P to F) happened around 1948 from what I can find out, so if the images showing the 51's firing rockets are designated 'F' then its post war.
D K H Mustangs carried rockets big time, but I think this was only effctively and extensively employed during the Korean conflict where the Ponies were used as close support aircraft for ground operations. Here they carried a host of nastys including a range of bombs, the Hvars and Napalm.
Im sure that during WW2 a lot of 'testing on the fly' went on, so its quite possible they slapped rockets on the ponies for trials. A lot of individual testing went on, initiated by the pilots and the base/sqn itself willingness to try and maximise their operational capability, not necessarily from official channels. The lack of reference info to it perhaps is the clue, that it was not a std operational practice to use rockets in WW2? If so, no need to put them in the game I reckon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

€œIn May the 78th Squadron aircraft were modified to carry the 140 pound 5 inch High Velocity Aircraft Rockets (HVARs). This added a new dimension to the P-51's capability. On the first use of the rockets against Matsudo airfield northeast of Tokyo, Major Jim Tapp and his wing man Captain Phil Maher set the whole hanger line on fire. The HVAR carried a modified 5 inch Naval gun projectile. The fighter sweeps were so devastating to the Japanese that they started evacuating their aircraft from southern Honshu as they got warning.€
http://www.glorene.com/aviation/7th/history.htm

Bearcat99
01-17-2005, 12:40 PM
Hey Mucker.... I take back what I said to you.. it actually applies to Badsight.. sorry for the incorrect spank on the wrist.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Nero111
01-17-2005, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nero111:
The redesignation of the aircraft, 'Persuit' to 'Fighter' (P to F) happened around 1948 from what I can find out, so if the images showing the 51's firing rockets are designated 'F' then its post war.
D K H Mustangs carried rockets big time, but I think this was only effctively and extensively employed during the Korean conflict where the Ponies were used as close support aircraft for ground operations. Here they carried a host of nastys including a range of bombs, the Hvars and Napalm.
Im sure that during WW2 a lot of 'testing on the fly' went on, so its quite possible they slapped rockets on the ponies for trials. A lot of individual testing went on, initiated by the pilots and the base/sqn itself willingness to try and maximise their operational capability, not necessarily from official channels. The lack of reference info to it perhaps is the clue, that it was not a std operational practice to use rockets in WW2? If so, no need to put them in the game I reckon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

€œIn May the 78th Squadron aircraft were modified to carry the 140 pound 5 inch High Velocity Aircraft Rockets (HVARs). This added a new dimension to the P-51's capability. On the first use of the rockets against Matsudo airfield northeast of Tokyo, Major Jim Tapp and his wing man Captain Phil Maher set the whole hanger line on fire. The HVAR carried a modified 5 inch Naval gun projectile. The fighter sweeps were so devastating to the Japanese that they started evacuating their aircraft from southern Honshu as they got warning.€
http://www.glorene.com/aviation/7th/history.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup I was wrong, i did say i think though, hehe
Very interesting read.Thx for the link.
There you have it then, looks like you Pony jockey's have a case for Oleg.

Chuck_Older
01-17-2005, 02:36 PM
There's an even bigger case for Oleg to peruse on the Mustang-

Proper ID numbering

Check out an RAF P-51D's numbers that are applied in-game.

Now check a USAAF P-51D of any type http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Sure, Med and PTO Mustangs commonly used numbers...but the P-51D became flyable with ACE, which wasn't about the Med or PTO at all

I've moaned about this off and on in ORR for over a year...

faustnik
01-17-2005, 02:39 PM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/P51Rockets.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/P51Rockets2.jpg

SeaFireLIV
01-17-2005, 03:46 PM
Dunno if any of guys have realised it yet, but the childish arguing here isn`t going to get Oleg putting rockets on the P51 any sooner.

A bit of maturity will get thee far.

Nero111
01-17-2005, 09:44 PM
Seafire, I for one am not 'arguing' as you put it. This, to me at least, is nothing more than 'informative debate' which at the end of the day has expanded my knowledge on the Pony in WW2.

WUAF_Badsight
01-17-2005, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
but the childish arguing here isn`t going to get Oleg putting rockets on the P51 any sooner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
seems im the light to the forums imbecile moths

the only "point" of the initial post was to show the Pony with rockets in picture form

mucker
01-17-2005, 10:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
but the childish arguing here isn`t going to get Oleg putting rockets on the P51 any sooner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
seems im the light to the forums imbecile moths

the only "point" of the initial post was to show the Pony with rockets in picture form <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no, not the light but rather the Queen moth.....

m http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
01-17-2005, 11:14 PM
got an example ?

or do you still think a persons ego is tied to what they post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif