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dutchbird1972
04-29-2007, 04:37 PM
Hiya.

I've been searching the forums, and the messages I found are less than helpful.

I am trying carrier takoffs in the training missions in IL2 1946, and I can get off easily using Zeros, Seafires and Wildcats.

However, on both the F4U Corsair and the F6F Hellcat, I am hitting the wall time and time again. Everytime the plane leaves the deck it violently rolls left and crashes.

Takeoff procedure:

1. Flaps to Take Off.
2. With chocks engaged, start engine and run up RPM at 110% throttle.
3. Disengage chocks, apply a little right rudder to center the plane down the deck, no back pressure on the stick.
4. Tail comes up just before the plane leaves the deck.
5. Plane runs off the end of the deck, nose level with the horizon, with just enough back pressure to keep it there, and I just have time to hit 'G' before it rolls left.

According to the messages on this topic I found, I am doing everything right. Is the timing *really* that critical?

Mart

dutchbird1972
04-29-2007, 04:37 PM
Hiya.

I've been searching the forums, and the messages I found are less than helpful.

I am trying carrier takoffs in the training missions in IL2 1946, and I can get off easily using Zeros, Seafires and Wildcats.

However, on both the F4U Corsair and the F6F Hellcat, I am hitting the wall time and time again. Everytime the plane leaves the deck it violently rolls left and crashes.

Takeoff procedure:

1. Flaps to Take Off.
2. With chocks engaged, start engine and run up RPM at 110% throttle.
3. Disengage chocks, apply a little right rudder to center the plane down the deck, no back pressure on the stick.
4. Tail comes up just before the plane leaves the deck.
5. Plane runs off the end of the deck, nose level with the horizon, with just enough back pressure to keep it there, and I just have time to hit 'G' before it rolls left.

According to the messages on this topic I found, I am doing everything right. Is the timing *really* that critical?

Mart

FritzGryphon
04-29-2007, 05:27 PM
If you're still having troubles with the takeoff, either your plane is overloaded or the carrier isn't moving fast enough.

Unfortunately, the mission editor has no control over wind speed or direction, and we have to deal with the tiny (or non-existant) amounts of wind in the default weather presets.

That being said, I've never had a problem lifting off a Corsair with any loadout, no matter how heavy, so long as I have the entire deck to work with. You will come very close to the water, but it should be possible.

If not, you can also try backing up to the very end of the deck before starting your takeoff.

badaboom.1
04-29-2007, 05:30 PM
I think it's important to lock your tail wheel[map it in controls menu]also try some more right rudder till you're off the deck.
hope this helps,And welcome aboard!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
04-29-2007, 06:04 PM
The default missions are bugged...both F4U Corsair and F6F Hellcat start on escort carriers which neither could operate from without catapult assistance.

Nimits
04-29-2007, 07:36 PM
Like I've said before, for realistic carrier training, swap out the CVEs for CVs (for the takeoff missions) and increase the CV's speed to 30 knots. That will, among other things, allow you to take off within about half the deck or less with a normal load and reduce the run out of the arrestor wires. Carrier ops were done with 25-30 knots relative wind, and I think the default missions they are at about 15 knots. That extra 10-15 knots makes a big difference.

buzzsaw1939
04-29-2007, 08:20 PM
Hey guys.... I think Dutchbird is talking about quick missions, I haveing the same problem, with the f4u and hellcat, only it bobs up and down violently, tell it spashes, I've tried elevator trim in all positions, nothing helps, in two other pf games befor 46, I had no problem takeing off, (ever) I've been waiting for some one else to mention it. as far as backing up, or speeding up the carrier, (huh?) I don't think you can in quick missions, if you can I'd like to know about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

dutchbird1972
04-30-2007, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The default missions are bugged...both F4U Corsair and F6F Hellcat start on escort carriers which neither could operate from without catapult assistance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ouch. That would explain some things yes. Especially why all forum posts seem to refer to the mission builder.

Thanks,

Mart

dutchbird1972
04-30-2007, 02:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
Hey guys.... I think Dutchbird is talking about quick missions, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you mean the default 'Single Missions', then yeah, I haven't tried campaigns with these birds yet (*because* I thought they were this hard), and I haven't tried building custom missions yet.

But 'Quick Missions' don't start on deck, do they?

Mart

dutchbird1972
04-30-2007, 02:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by badaboom.1:
I think it's important to lock your tail wheel[map it in controls menu]also try some more right rudder till you're off the deck.
hope this helps,And welcome aboard!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Heh. I haven't tried locking the tail wheel yet, but as far as I know, that only controls the yaw at low speeds, and the plane is not yawing, it's rolling left.

And I have tried keeping the right rudder applied after leaving the deck, still no cigar.

But as pointed out, it appears the same carrier is reused for all the training missions, and it is a mere CVE. Now that I know that, things become a lot clearer. A Wildcat with its low stall speed will get off a CVE easily, but the Corsair and the Hellcat are not even close to stall speed when leaving the deck.

So what I am seeing is a plain stall, and an unavoidable one. Ah well, this afternoon I'll try some campaign missions or custom builds. See if that works.

Thanks for the welcome!

Mart

stansdds
04-30-2007, 04:11 AM
As it has been pointed out by Nimits, you need wind over the deck for a successful launch. IL2 does not model predictable surface winds, only turbulence. Real carriers would steam into the wind for launch and recovery. CVE's could do 18 knots, the big carriers up to 30 knots. Add that to a prevailing 10 to 20 knot surface wind and you gave the aircraft a real head start to being airborne. The best you can do in IL2 is to use CV's for their longer decks and set them to run at 30 knots.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-30-2007, 08:16 AM
1. Set your flaps to the "landing" configuration,
2. Make sure your canopy is closed (doesn't look as cool and certainly isn't accurate to do so, but you want to take off right?)

3. Try with only 25% fuel load first
4. Put your mixture to 120%

If your tail is lifting prior to the end of the flight deck, there's little reason you shouldn't be able to coax it into the air.

There are some particular loadouts that are very difficult to take off with, but HVAR's or 2x500lb bombs and 50% fuel have worked well for me in the past.


TB

dutchbird1972
04-30-2007, 08:47 AM
And thanks to those that pointed out that the training missions use a CVE as a starting point.

This afternoon I have tried taking off from a real carrier (both a quicky custom built mission and a campaign mission), and it is a piece of cake.

Thanks all! And see you online once I have gotten a bit better at flying. I'm getting pretty good, but not good enough *yet*.

Mart

crucislancer
04-30-2007, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
1. Set your flaps to the "landing" configuration,
2. Make sure your canopy is closed (doesn't look as cool and certainly isn't accurate to do so, but you want to take off right?)

3. Try with only 25% fuel load first
4. Put your mixture to 120%

If your tail is lifting prior to the end of the flight deck, there's little reason you shouldn't be able to coax it into the air.

There are some particular loadouts that are very difficult to take off with, but HVAR's or 2x500lb bombs and 50% fuel have worked well for me in the past.


TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did something similar, except that I left my flaps up until I got to the island, then brought them down a step at a time to Landing, which was just before I ran out of deck. Got airborne with no problems.

buzzsaw1939
04-30-2007, 12:34 PM
Dutchbird.... I'm sorry about that, I did meen, single missions, I haven't tried any campaigns, eather, went in and looked at it, and thought maybe I better figure it out first. I really enjoyed going in and practicing touch and go's on a carrier, but I guess I'm out of luck now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
04-30-2007, 04:33 PM
I haven't tried doing any of the carrier single missions, but I have flown many types of aircraft off decks on a regular basis, including twins like the B-25, Beaufighter, and other aircraft such as the IL-2T (in place of Kate or Avenger), and to be honest it's not that difficult.

Once you get the hang of it, you can get most aircraft off a stationary deck!

The reason, I think, for your take off problems is stall speed. When you come off the end of the deck, you are very close to, or even below your aircraft's stall speed, which means there is not enough speed or airflow going over your wings to create lift, and get you into the air.

This is always a problem, and is made worse when trying to take off in an aircraft with bombs, rockets, etc, as this means you will accelerate slower than normal, and take longer to rise above your stall speed.

This is how I take off from a carrier, especially when carrying a reasonably high loadout.

First, flaps to landing flaps, lock tail wheel, radiator fully opened (I don't know if this still works, but in a previous version having your rad open in certain planes assisted with lift - but I still do it out of habit), and then rev up to full throttle with chocks on.

Then, I release chocks, and correct with rudder to keep me running straight if needed. Then, as soon as I leave the end of the deck, I raise gear, and maintain level flight as best as I can.

Now, it's at this point that a lot of people have trouble, because quite often you are flying below your stall speed (full flaps help to keep you stable in this situation), and in this situation, torque from your engine will cause you to roll, and drop a wing. Most people try to correct with opposite aileron, but this doesn't always work. The solution is to correct your attitude with rudder. If you are dropping to the right, then correct with left rudder, and if dropping to the left, correct with right rudder! Just be careful not to over compensate otherwise you'll roll right over onto the other wing.

After a few tries with this method, it'll come easily, and you'll be able to take pretty much any aircraft off a carrier deck. Just remember to be steady with your stick inputs, don't jerk the stick wildly, otherwise you'll end up in the drink!

Fabiusmax
05-04-2007, 05:31 AM
Definitely raise landing gear asap (assuming you haven't done so already). The reduction in drag can be critical. I also apply some forward stick initially; it takes time for the tail to come up but i think maybe it reduces drag a bitty. That said its worth repeating that slow moving escort carriers were never designed for heavy birds like Corsairs and Hellcats. I still have the original spill!!

Fabiusmax
05-04-2007, 05:32 AM
Oops. Pardon my grandmar. For original read occasional (hope my spellings better!)

Zeus-cat
05-04-2007, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> That said its worth repeating that slow moving escort carriers were never designed for heavy birds like Corsairs and Hellcats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. Escort carriers routinely operated Avengers off their decks. The three man Avenger was the heaviest carrier-borne aircraft in the USN during WWII.

buzzsaw1939
05-04-2007, 06:19 PM
Zeus-cat....I think your going to start a good one with that reasoning! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I think the key word is (heavy) right? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nimits
05-04-2007, 06:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Not true. Escort carriers routinely operated Avengers off their decks. The three man Avenger was the heaviest carrier-borne aircraft in the USN during WWII. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and no. A loaded Avenger (or Corsair) is going to require most of the deck of a CVE to get airborne with a rolling takeoff, assuming a 30+ knot relative wind. In a no wind situation, the Navy considered it unsafe to conduct "rolling" flight ops from a CVE with most aircraft. If you look at photos of TBMs conducting take offs from CVEs, you will often see them lined up as far as 2/3 down the deck. Obviously, there is no way even with 30 or even with 40 knots relative wind you are going to get a loaded TBM airborne in 150 feet under its own power. The answer of course was catapaults, and that is how these heavy aircraft were launched from CVEs. Of course, catapaults are not modeled in the game.

For player flyable aircraft, you should be able to get an F4F-4, FM-2, or SBD-3 off the deck of CVE with a rolling take off (although with the no wind situation in game, the max 18 knots wind over deck you will get would be boderline in the real world for that sort of flight ops even for those aircraft). For the F6F or F4U, while it CAN be down and is a good way to test your airmanship, flying those planes off a CVE is not an accurate measure of your ability to conduct realistic WWII carrier ops.

buzzsaw1939
05-04-2007, 07:16 PM
Thanks Nimits...you put it very well !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Zeus-cat
05-04-2007, 09:48 PM
Guys, I was only responding to the comment that CVEs were not designed to be used with heavy aircraft. That is not true. I believe the "normal" complement for a CVE was about 25 aircraft with half fighters and half bombers. This would vary greatly depending on the mission for the CVE, but Avengers were commonly used as the bombers on a CVE.

Of course, the only way to launch the Avenger from a CVE was using the catapult, which we don't have in game. Still, it would be fun to launch off a fleet carrier and then attempt to land on an escort carrier.