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Chevy350
09-14-2008, 10:57 PM
what do you guys think is the most difficult fighter plane is to fly successfully against similar yeared planes and do good?

not like a biplane against a rocket la7, i mean planes that would have actually fought eachother?

Chevy350
09-14-2008, 10:57 PM
what do you guys think is the most difficult fighter plane is to fly successfully against similar yeared planes and do good?

not like a biplane against a rocket la7, i mean planes that would have actually fought eachother?

ImMoreBetter
09-14-2008, 11:25 PM
P.11 vs Anything.

WTE_Galway
09-15-2008, 12:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:
P.11 vs Anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

back in my online days I used to fly CAP in the p11c against vulchers a lot.

It was surprising good, got myself a p39 and a few other late war birds. An experienced energy fighter will slaughter you but a lot of people in dogfight servers are stupid enough to try and turn with you. They simply cannot hit you, it will split S at a height of 80 metres AGL and whilst it only has 7.62 mm ammo its more than enough enough if you can actually deflection shoot to take down anything you care to take on. A quick yoyo for speed while turning inside them and you have an ideal deflection shot

It is also surprisingly quick if you have some altitude. The wheels come off at 500 kmh (which is unhistorical the real thing could do 550kmh in a dive) but it flies fine without the wheels.

TinyTim
09-15-2008, 05:14 AM
Ki-27 in 41/42
Bf-109G-6 in 44/45
Ki-43II in 44/45
Ki-61 in 44/45
A6M in 44/45

Marcel_Albert
09-15-2008, 06:29 AM
If we except the P-11 , biplanes etc.. hardest time IMHO (based on experience of a few years of squad online flying campaigns full switch) is :

-Anything Japanese after 1942 except Ki-84 (although it is still inferior to a Mustang )
-Anything Soviet before 1943
-Anything Italian ( decent planes , but extremely weak armament and bad rearward cockpit visibility which makes the survavibility very bad (unless you do not play full switch/realistic ) and very difficult to shoot anything since you need to stay behind your ennemy for ages to down it unless you are an elite shooter and kill the pilot quickly , except with Macchi 205 .

It is very difficult to fly Japanese stuffs after 1942 (fragile , slow , badly armed , outperformed in almost every area except their late war stuffs like Hayates or Raidens that are good machines) along Italian birds

Second thing most difficult in my opinion is to fly Soviet in early war ... Online , few people fly Soviet and for a reason .. Polikarpovs are no match for anything German , first Lagg-3 are no better (actually i survive better in the I-16 than Laggs ) , only the Migs are decent weapons , but basically , you suffer hell before the Yak-1B/7B 1942/ or Yak-9 are available in late 1942 , and even then , 109 and 190 are still better airplanes in term of performances , they often have the initiative of the attack as a consequence and can flee/break when they want thx to superior speed and diving ability , best fighters in VVS sides are IMHO Yaks and P-39's until 1944 , the Lavochkins are the better armed and fastest but only below 2500 m.. . they are weak above 2500-3000 meters , even a 1941 109F4 will outrun a La-5Fn in altitude , this changes in 1944 with the La-7 that is a very good plane although i prefer him the Yak-9U.

In 1944 , all sides have good machines IMHO ,there are some better than others but the differences are not as important as before IMHO , only the P-51 and 190Dora perhaps are the best of the mass produced fighters because they are good at any altitude and the fastest planes overall , so they offer probably the best chances of survival , but it's just general judgement , a good pilot of Tempest , Yak-3/9U , La-7 or K-4 etc.. will have a number of advantages over them depending the context of the engagements .


IMHO , the in-game dominant prop planes (overall, at all altitudes) by year :

ETO 1940 : 109E/Mig PTO: A6M2
ETO 1941 : 109F4 PTO: A6M2-21/P-40
ETO 1942 : 109G2 or SpitIX PTO: A6M3/P-40
ETO 1943 : SpitVIII/190A5 PTO: P-38/Hellcat
ETO 1944 : P-51/190D9 PTO :P-51/Corsair

Marcel_Albert
09-15-2008, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chevy350:
what do you guys think is the most difficult fighter plane is to fly successfully against similar yeared planes and do good?

not like a biplane against a rocket la7, i mean planes that would have actually fought eachother? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry , i realized i didn't answer your question , i'd say it's the P-39 series IMHO .

difficult to fly in combat , needs lots of practice , usually not as good as the best ennemy aircrafts , P39D1 of 1941 that you fly in mid42 until late 1942 in Eastern front , then P-39D2 until early 1944 where you get a hand on the Q10 and then P-63 at the end . Most of the time , you will be outperformed by your opponents , but it 's still possible to do well with Airacobras , what's also good is that you can fly this aircraft both in Pacific front and European theater . Then there is the Yak series too from 1941 to the end of the war , usually inferior to opposition but possible to be succesful in it

SeaFireLIV
09-15-2008, 07:41 AM
The I16 type 18 or type 24 against competent 109s or anything in 1939-`41. In fact I16s were still flying in 1944 in some parts, so you can match it up to later Axis planes if you wish.

I dares you to take an I16 up against 2 AI F4s or G2s and to come away with kills. Do this on full engine management, realistic settings. If you succeed (which I doubt) then go Online and try it there.

Manage to shoot one Human down and I`ll buy you a beer.

It can be done.

Afterhours
09-18-2008, 07:37 PM
Shooting down 109F fighters with an I-16 is child's play if you are any good at all.

It is cake against AI, and just as easy online. If you fly on a good Russian-hosted server with an eastern front plane set you will find IL2 pilots that kick a$$ in VVS aircraft no matter what the year.

If you cannot do well in VVS aircraft you simply do not know how to fly them.

Track:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f24b550b59b2fba0d2db6fb9a8902bda

Make sure you watch the track with manual view disabled so you can see how this god-blessed genius makes blind shots and flies full-real without the sissy track IR that all the newbs think is a must-have for this sim.

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 08:15 PM
Perhaps the Yak-1 vs 109F I think. That Yak is very fragile, light firepower and little ammo.

There isn't any plane matchup that's hopeless so example of one shooting the other down, well?

During the Battle of Poland, it has been stated that Polish pilots in Pzl's scored better than
2:1 against the LW. It was Oleg that I first saw post the stat.

WTE_Galway
09-18-2008, 08:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Perhaps the Yak-1 vs 109F I think. That Yak is very fragile, light firepower and little ammo.

There isn't any plane matchup that's hopeless so example of one shooting the other down, well?

During the Battle of Poland, it has been stated that Polish pilots in Pzl's scored better than
2:1 against the LW. It was Oleg that I first saw post the stat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My notes say 128 Luftwaffe aircraft lost (mainly stuka's, Dorniers etc) versus 116 Polish aircraft lost. But I have seen other figures that contradict this and give the Poles more kills and it depends what you call "in combat". Kill ratios can be meaningless.

The ratio of aircraft numbers was 4000 or so Luftwaffe to 600 odd Polish planes. They were definitely outnumbered.

Whatever the true figures, the Hollywood myth that Poland collapsed because of its out of date planes and poor strategy pitting cavalry against tanks is unfounded and unfair. The Polish were certainly losing but the Germans were taking a lot of casualties and the Poles were holding up surprising well until the Russians also invaded from the other direction.

Afterhours
09-18-2008, 09:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Perhaps the Yak-1 vs 109F I think. That Yak is very fragile, light firepower and little ammo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the Yak in this sim is sure as $hit no more fragile than any bf109 in the sim!

Here is a great track where I had the honor of flying against a REALLY good yak pilot, hard settings of course:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1b04ef2d9400ccacd2db6fb9a8902bda

Afterhours
09-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Go online and fly a 1943 bf109 against 1943 spits. Then post some tracks of it here!

The 109 is a real paper bag in this sim for one thing. The 43' G-model in this sim is pretty slow and not as manuverable as it's earlier incarnations.
It has terrible elevator authority at high speeds.
If you can consistently do well in it against it's contemporary opponents online against good virtual pilots then you have my respect.

Afterhours
09-22-2008, 02:48 PM
Another thought is:

If you are just talking aircraft and the two pilots are equal, then when you are matched up against the same exact aircraft then it is most difficult.

If two pilots are experienced and are facing each other in two different aircraft, then they put those aircraft on both sides of an equation, cancel out both sides and the differences that are left are what they use against each other.

When they are both in the same aircraft and of the same piloting skill, then there is nothing to exploit or use, and you are in for a real battle!

DKoor
09-22-2008, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Afterhours:
Go online and fly a 1943 bf109 against 1943 spits. Then post some tracks of it here! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Gotta be one of the toughest possible scenarios with this game.
109 is in such setup outclassed in everything by Spitfires.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Afterhours:

If two pilots are experienced and are facing each other in two different aircraft, then they put those aircraft on both sides of an equation, cancel out both sides and the differences that are left are what they use against each other.

When they are both in the same aircraft and of the same piloting skill, then there is nothing to exploit or use, and you are in for a real battle! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is true.

DKoor
09-22-2008, 03:48 PM
BTW, here are few fights vs ace Ai on "realistic" settings

N1K vs P-51Ds (http://www.esnips.com/doc/edce8046-80a2-4a49-8920-da3427c0b5c0/DKoor51D-vs-6xJPN-408) - having low top speed vs premium zoomer is a bad thing
P-51D vs 4xKi-84+2xA6M7 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/edce8046-80a2-4a49-8920-da3427c0b5c0/DKoor51D-vs-6xJPN-408) - high alt fight, almost 1 hour duration
Bf-109E vs 4xYak-1 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/0ff9e5d7-a9b6-4d58-9974-1912be04abd5/DKoorBf109E-vs-4xYak1-4071)
MC.200 vs 4xI-16type24 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/7c81e395-fed5-4638-8cf4-112afa87507e/DKoorMC200-vs-4xI16-408) - true offline horror, this setup is topped only by very few in difficulty, if any

M_Gunz
09-22-2008, 03:48 PM
An equal pilot on P-47D put in a 109G-6 is no longer an equal pilot.

The flying style requires changes. There's been many many times when players have swapped
planes to compare planes when all they compared was how well each of them fit both planes.

A really good pilot on one plane does not spend a lot of time on others as it detunes the
reflexes you build in practice. The nerves in the hands, etc do get trained, ask any musician.
Or touch typist.

DKoor
09-22-2008, 03:51 PM
Tangling with 109s in your cr@pzorz I-153 online?

Here is how to do it by Henkie;
Henkie I-153 online (http://www.esnips.com/doc/2ac14ca8-66be-4d8a-9406-2bbbe1709755/HenkieI153P-2xEA+GK-CzW-400)