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ikon71
09-16-2004, 09:08 PM
For example the Jagdpanther, I know that if it is stationary that it must be line of sight with the target to shoot and hit it but whats the margin of error? will it fire a few degrees to either side? What if the target is moving,it cant rotate its gun so does it only shoot when the target is directly in front of it or will it rotate on its tracks to bring the gun to bear? Lastly what if the Jagdpanther is moving, like in a collumn,will it alter course to engage or only shoot whats in front of it? Warning new guy alert! Thanks in advance for the info

ikon71
09-16-2004, 09:08 PM
For example the Jagdpanther, I know that if it is stationary that it must be line of sight with the target to shoot and hit it but whats the margin of error? will it fire a few degrees to either side? What if the target is moving,it cant rotate its gun so does it only shoot when the target is directly in front of it or will it rotate on its tracks to bring the gun to bear? Lastly what if the Jagdpanther is moving, like in a collumn,will it alter course to engage or only shoot whats in front of it? Warning new guy alert! Thanks in advance for the info

WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-16-2004, 09:15 PM
I thought this was a flightsim <_< ?

Obi_Kwiet
09-16-2004, 10:12 PM
Make a great game and people will still find some small detail to whine about. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif *sigh*

Fennec_P
09-16-2004, 10:15 PM
Realistically, the gun should move only a few degrees to either side. I don't know if this is modelled.

A moving assault gun will simply turn toward the target to fire, then continue on its waypoints until the weapon is ready to fire again.

S.h.r.i.k.e
09-16-2004, 10:59 PM
As for real life, assault guns have a limited barrel traverse. For example, the most widely used German assault gun in WWII was the Sturmgesch├╝tz III/IV, I believe. They had, approximately, a 25-30 degree barrel traverse. I expect the JagdPanther/Tiger has close to the same.

How assault guns worked, was to use the tracks to aim the front of the vehicle in the general direction of the target and then fine tune the aim with the limited barrel traverse.

These turretless vehicles were easier and less expensive to build, along with the advantage of having less moving parts (so a bit easier to maintain).

Daiichidoku
09-16-2004, 11:05 PM
the original idea was to provide armor support to infantry, and was done so quickly and cheaply by doing away with the moving turret...

the earliest ones were recyled panzer mk II and IIIs....

they didnt need any traverse, cuz they were meant to blast troop fortifcations, pillboxes, etc, not tanks...

when they were later used vs tanks, they would often be used in ambushes, otherwise they had a bit of a time vs "real" tanks

http://groups.msn.com/TaoofDaiichidoku/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1

Zen--
09-16-2004, 11:07 PM
Welcome to the forums http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


IIRC the Jagdpanther had about 10 degrees of hand crank traverse to either side for the main gun, anything more than that required the vehicle to steer with its tracks...meaning it lurched in one direction, stopped, then let the gunner hand crank within his 20 degree FOV again.


The majority of tanks in WW2 had no stabilization device for the main gun, therefore firing on the move with accuracy was extremely difficult. Most tanks fired from a short halt when they were on the offense. They stopped, aimed, fired and then began moving again to minimize their stationary exposure time.

Self Propelled Guns/Tank Destroyers like the Jagdpanther were not well suited to offensive operations because the lack of a traversible turret greatly reduces effectiveness in combat.

SPG's were not nearly as effective as a tanks with a traversible gun in the turret, but they were much cheaper to buy as well as maintain and generally fitted a larger gun in the fixed turret because they had more usable space. They were best suited in the defensive role or used on fixed targets such as bunkers or enemy defensive positions where the target was static and did not move.

As for in game stuff, I don't think I've seen SPG's change direction to fire at anything, unlike tanks which definately move their turrets to engage.

Hope this helps, S!


(The rest of you cynical peeps, give him a break, he's just asking a question. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

-Zen-

JZG_12-Blitz
09-17-2004, 12:44 AM
They were cheaper, and without the turret they wieghed less and could mount a heavier gun and more armor then the turret of the normal tank could hold, the only negative side was no full rotation really, they were also somewhat smaller targets, i think the most numerous german tank was
Longer barreled stug IIIÔ┬┤s, Which was a potent tank killer aswell as a good support unit

Abbuzze
09-17-2004, 01:35 AM
They were used as a pure defensive weapon.
But a VERY effective one! This "Jagdpanzer" very often got the gun of the next bigger tank.
They had a very low silhouette, and were difficult to spot cause of this, so they ambushed their enemys and were able to reject unseen if all worked 100%.

I./JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
http://www.jg53-pikas.de/

http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/bilder/Ani_pikasbanner_langsam%20neu.gif

HansKnappstick
09-17-2004, 01:41 AM
In the game, I have witnessed a platoon of StuG III Fs massacre a soviet truck column. The guns turned towards their target. After the fire exchange, they moved on their original route.

Fritzofn
09-17-2004, 07:02 AM
Zen is right about the traversing of the gun, u must remember, at this stage, Axis is fighting a a lmost complete defencive war, so a tank, with high silouete is no use, while a STUG or JagdPanther, has low silouete, making it a perfect ambush viechle.

during WW2, the STUG of the Axis stood for most of the allies tank losses,
Axis killed 7 out of 10 tanks i belive the STUG stood for some 4 to 5 out of 10, i know the russians had STRICT orders to NEVER assault a STUG battery head on, nomather how many tanks they had, orders where to try and attack from the sides. this alone showes the value of the STUG, both as a offensive and defensive viechle.

the worlds greatest tank ace, Wittman, was himself a STUG commander, and only got a Tiger long time after they had gotten to the battlefield.

some 75-80% of the axis tanks was destroyed by planes and artillery some 20% of this is what i belive mechanical breakdowns.

Sadly, Wittmans tank was struck by a Typhoon that shot a rocket into the engine deck, blowing the turret clear off, killing the entire crew.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When u get to HELL, Tell'em I'll sent u.....U'll get a group discount
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Shifty101
09-17-2004, 10:49 AM
Buy Combat Mission: Barborossa to Berlin and you'll see just how effective these SPG's (Self Propelled Guns) could be on the attack as well. They are by no means expected to fill the role of a main battle tank but instead kept in cover until the infantry advancing infront of them came to an enemy strongpoint or armor. Then you wheel out the SPG and blast away or use shoot and scoot orders to get a gun solution, fire, and then retreat to reload giving you the least amount of time possible to get return fire. As for the StuG it wasn't produced just because the Germans were fighting defensively but instead to fill the infantry support role.

http://www.geocities.com/agrill101/Sig.jpg.txt

ikon71
09-17-2004, 06:52 PM
Wow! Great answers. Tanks a lot!