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View Full Version : Smoke for the 50s!



Blackdog5555
04-01-2005, 10:48 AM
One very nice feature of this games is the smoke that comes off the tracers. Especially the spiralling tracer smoke. Its been posted to death about the 50s tracers not being bright enough (I agree BTW). But there is no tracer smoke for the 50s in the game. nor is there smoke coming off the wing. Not big smoke, but there should be the wisps of smoke. so how about it..check your gun camera footage. Cheers BD

fherathras
04-01-2005, 11:17 AM
standard .50 belts did not have smoke tracers.


regarding the tracers not beiing bright enough.

Film is very sensitive to ligt and such. thats why you can se huge gunnflashes and tracers in guncams/movies, when they would not be visible to the human eye in reality.



I agree on the "smoke from the guns" part dough

Art-J
04-01-2005, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
standard .50 belts did not have smoke tracers.

regarding the tracers not beiing bright enough.

Film is very sensitive to ligt and such. thats why you can se huge gunnflashes and tracers in guncams/movies, when they would not be visible to the human eye in reality.

I agree on the "smoke from the guns" part dough <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they "would not be visible to the human eye in reality", so what would be the point of using them anyway? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif
No offence, just messing with You http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The smoke behind guns would be nice indeed, but I guess the developers won't bother adding it to PF, maybe BoB will have it? I'm pleased that they reduced muzzle flash size though... That was much more important issue.

TheJoyStick
04-01-2005, 11:54 AM
50s don't produce a lot of smoke when they're fired...


However, I can imagine that when you're flying 300mph any smoke they did produce would be gone with the wind..

T_O_A_D
04-01-2005, 12:14 PM
Are you sure about the smoke, Cause in the 40's they were still using Black powder, Not smokless powder. I'm just guessing not completly sure.

StellarRat
04-01-2005, 12:39 PM
Bad guess. Smokeless powder has been in use since the late 1800s. Is this an April Fools joke? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BuzzU
04-01-2005, 12:58 PM
Black powder would be funny on a plane. You could make your own smoke screen. Who needs clouds.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fennec_P
04-01-2005, 01:03 PM
I do remember seeing smoke on .50 cal tracers in some guncam videos. It's just not as apparant, not nearly as much as 20mm or something. In some of the worse quality clips, it's hard or impossible to see.

Probably it would just be bad for performance. For example, you get a pretty big frame hit when using the FW-190 w/ MG151 pods. Would be even worse with 8 .50 cals, if each tracer round had smoke.

I think Aces High has it, but it looks really gay. Would be better off without.

Ratsack
04-02-2005, 09:24 AM
I think I recall some smoke on the 0.50s in B-17, too. My memory of it's not that clear, but I remember thinking it looked cool.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Blackdog5555
04-02-2005, 09:50 AM
BTW, Streaming smoke didnt come from the gunpowder, It came from the tracer. some smoke did come off the powder and can be seen blown back off the wing. CFS2-3 and had addons with the feature. It just seem that the 50s are the only guns with the invisible tracers.

stubby
04-02-2005, 11:52 AM
check out these killer wwII shorts and tell me 50s don't leave smoke contrails. they may not be as extreme as cannons but they definetly leave contrails.

http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/

the smoke was probably left out for better proformance. imagine the hit on FPS if the p47s 8 50s left smoke trails. cool to look at but probably a fps killer. I would rather see them more brightly illuminated. as they stand now, they are just way too faint. I want them to look like the stream coming out of an i16 but maybe white instead of green.

3.JG51_BigBear
04-02-2005, 11:59 AM
There was a great P-47 video someone posted not too long ago. Unfortunately I don't have the link handy but it had some great shots where you really see the smoke passing back over the wings. A lot more than I would have thought. Like Blackdog said there have been addons for CFSs and I never noticed a performance hit but it could be a difference in the way effects are modelled, I don't know. It would be very cool to have in il2.

BuzzU
04-02-2005, 12:05 PM
A quote from Bud Anderson flying his P-51:

"I bring my nose up, he comes into my sights, and from less than 300 yards I trigger a long, merciless burst from my Brownings. Every fifth bullet or so is a tracer, leaving a thin trail of smoke, marking the path of the bullet stream."

darkhorizon11
04-02-2005, 01:21 PM
There is some smoke when .50 cals fire. Not that much but some. I have a video to prove it.

fherathras
04-02-2005, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
There is some smoke when .50 cals fire. Not that much but some. I have a video to prove it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



can we se? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
04-02-2005, 02:22 PM
The visuals for the .50cals need a huge improvement. But its well within the games abilities.

Here's what we need:
1) Very faint smoke trails (as evidenced by quotes and by gun camera footage). If the game engine can handle making faint trails then this is a go, otherwise maybe its not worth it. It may obscure more than help find the target.
2) Unsyncronized tracers. We had it in version 1.0. They probably should remain unsyncronized.

3.JG51_BigBear
04-02-2005, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The visuals for the .50cals need a huge improvement. But its well within the games abilities.

Here's what we need:
1) Very faint smoke trails (as evidenced by quotes and by gun camera footage). If the game engine can handle making faint trails then this is a go, otherwise maybe its not worth it. It may obscure more than help find the target.
2) Unsyncronized tracers. We had it in version 1.0. They probably should remain unsyncronized. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they go hand in hand. If the tracers that are in game now are unsynchronized its very difficult to track them. If they were brighter or had a smoke trail I think they would be easier to track and then unsynchronized traces could be used effectively. Rather than obscuring the target like German tracer smoke, I think the smaller amount of smoke asociated with .50 rounds would be just right for striking a balance between slight loss of visual contact with target and ability to correct lead.

Blackdog5555
04-03-2005, 01:41 PM
Nice link Stubby. Thanks..as you can see from gun camera footage where the pilot chose not to use tracers, no smoke. Some pilots didnt like them and ask the ordinanceman to leave them out of their belts. but, yes plenty smoke from the tracers. I dunno about the CPU hit. Seems its ok for every other plane. Online maybe, but should have it for offline play. definately.

mortoma
04-03-2005, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
standard .50 belts did not have smoke tracers.


regarding the tracers not beiing bright enough.

Film is very sensitive to ligt and such. thats why you can se huge gunnflashes and tracers in guncams/movies, when they would not be visible to the human eye in reality.



I agree on the "smoke from the guns" part dough <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If a plane had tracers loaded, then the tracers gave off smoke. Because phosphorus is what gives the tracer it's glow ( especially in low light ) and it always gave off smoke too.

Phosphorus always gives off smoke when it burns!! No such thing as smokeless tracers in that era, since phosphorus is all they used at that time. And that goes for all countries in the war that used tracers, allied or axis.
There's no such thing as "smokeless tracers", as opposed to "smoke tracers" as you are trying to suggest. At least not then, and probably not even now.