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AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 12:49 AM
A few members here have been refering to the Spit Mk. IX 25lb as a clown wagon..

Which I find suprising..

In that the Spit Mk. IX 25lb is under performing more so that the Bf-109-K3C3 relative to their real world data.

Even with the 109K4C3's in game over heat issues, it still out climbs and out zooms the Spit Mk. IX 25lb!

Here is the proof..

NOTE

by proof I mean a and in-game test that compares the results to real world data..

Which is not to be confused with..

I was online and got shot down by a Spit thus I FEEL the Spit is over modeled type of test..

Here is the Spit Mk. IX 25lb vs. Bf-109-K4C3 comparisons (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/COMP_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_VS_Bf-109-K4C3.pdf)

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/BFROC.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/FP.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/SEP.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/TEKEPE.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/TTC.JPG

Here is the individual tests results in pdf format
Bf-109-K4C3 ROC/TTC test results (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/BF109KC3/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS175_100FUEL_Bf-109K-4C3.pdf)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test results JL165 Oct 1943 (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_JL165_43-10-08.pdf)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test results JL165 Feb 1944 (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_JL165_44-02-01.pdf)

Here is the individual track files
Bf-109-K4C3 ROC/TTC test track file (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/BF109KC3/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS175_PWR110WEP_FUEL100_ARM_DEFAULT_Bf-109K-4C3.zip)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test track file (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs.zip)

So as you can see..

The 109 beats the Spit in every category TTC and ROC and TE!

PS The Spit Mk. IX 25lb was test was done at 83% fuel and the Bf-109-K4C3 test was done at 100% fuel. Also, the Spit Mk. IX 25lb over heated twice during the test, once at ~8:30min and again at ~9:38min

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 12:49 AM
A few members here have been refering to the Spit Mk. IX 25lb as a clown wagon..

Which I find suprising..

In that the Spit Mk. IX 25lb is under performing more so that the Bf-109-K3C3 relative to their real world data.

Even with the 109K4C3's in game over heat issues, it still out climbs and out zooms the Spit Mk. IX 25lb!

Here is the proof..

NOTE

by proof I mean a and in-game test that compares the results to real world data..

Which is not to be confused with..

I was online and got shot down by a Spit thus I FEEL the Spit is over modeled type of test..

Here is the Spit Mk. IX 25lb vs. Bf-109-K4C3 comparisons (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/COMP_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_VS_Bf-109-K4C3.pdf)

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/BFROC.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/FP.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/SEP.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/TEKEPE.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/compare/SPITMKIX25LB_VS_BF109K4C3/TTC.JPG

Here is the individual tests results in pdf format
Bf-109-K4C3 ROC/TTC test results (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/BF109KC3/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS175_100FUEL_Bf-109K-4C3.pdf)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test results JL165 Oct 1943 (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_JL165_43-10-08.pdf)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test results JL165 Feb 1944 (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs_JL165_44-02-01.pdf)

Here is the individual track files
Bf-109-K4C3 ROC/TTC test track file (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/BF109KC3/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS175_PWR110WEP_FUEL100_ARM_DEFAULT_Bf-109K-4C3.zip)
Spit Mk. IX 25lb ROC/TTC test track file (http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/NACA_TESTING/ANALYSIS/TEST_TYPE/ROC/408/SPITIX25LB/ME_02/408_ROC_BCS170_87FUEL_SpitfireMkIX25lbs.zip)

So as you can see..

The 109 beats the Spit in every category TTC and ROC and TE!

PS The Spit Mk. IX 25lb was test was done at 83% fuel and the Bf-109-K4C3 test was done at 100% fuel. Also, the Spit Mk. IX 25lb over heated twice during the test, once at ~8:30min and again at ~9:38min

Daiichidoku
10-27-2007, 01:44 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/0568.gif

DKoor
10-27-2007, 02:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
A few members here have been refering to the Spit Mk. IX 25lb as a clown wagon..

Which I find suprising.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Why I don't find that surprising at all?

fly_zo
10-27-2007, 02:23 AM
20$ on DKoor ... any takers?

Low_Flyer_MkIX
10-27-2007, 03:08 AM
IBTK

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/LF2/shining.jpg

Badsight-
10-27-2007, 04:31 AM
performance in Combat

performance in a test

2 different things

the Thunderbolt sucked at climbing & top speed & turning . but it got more of its pilots home* than any other airplane

Spitfires are easy to fly



* on a per-sortie basis

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 06:03 AM
http://www.roflcats.com/images/0027.jpg

BaronUnderpants
10-27-2007, 06:15 AM
I`ll call your "overmodeld climbrate" and rase u one "49 min of full power combat with wep".


Dam...i only have one "10min 31sec with MW50 before dead".


I fold. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif


On a more seriouse not. When and how many times did the 109 overheat, if any?

Just wondering.

carguy_
10-27-2007, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
performance in Combat

performance in a test

2 different things

Spitfires are easy to fly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactacly!

Even if the Kurfurst surpasses it in performance, it is far harder to fly.Only veterans are able to use those advantages to a full potential, and full potential is what is required to beat the Spit pilot.
Don`t forget the stiff elevator over 380km/h.

Vike
10-27-2007, 08:08 AM
I agree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well said Carguy and Badsight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tagert...

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/grave.gif


Lhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifL

@+

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 08:26 AM
When faced with the FACTS..

The blue crew falls apart!

Let me guess..

You all still FEEL the Spit is the clown wagon.. even though the 109 beats it in every category..

Right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
10-27-2007, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
performance in Combat

performance in a test

2 different things

Spitfires are easy to fly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactacly!

Even if the Kurfurst surpasses it in performance, it is far harder to fly.Only veterans are able to use those advantages to a full potential, and full potential is what is required to beat the Spit pilot.
Don`t forget the stiff elevator over 380km/h. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So really what we should be saying is that the clowns are the pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Its their fault for not being able to make their wagon fly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DKoor
10-27-2007, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You all still FEEL the Spit is the clown wagon.. even though the 109 beats it in every category.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>To simplify matters to the bone... what part of the two English words "No Overheat" did you not understand?

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You all still FEEL the Spit is the clown wagon.. even though the 109 beats it in every category.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>To simplify matters to the bone... what part of the two English words "No Overheat" did you not understand? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You seem very upset to find out that even with the overheat issue the 109 can out do the Spit in every category.

So..

If the 109 out preforms the 'clown wagon'..

What does that make the 109?

King of clown wagons?

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:06 AM
You are charging windmills.
Start playing the game and behold why exactly your test has little to do with IL-2 aircombat reality.

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
You are charging windmills.
Start playing the game and behold why exactly your test has little to do with IL-2 aircombat reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL

Typical..

When blue crew goes on for weeks about performance difference and how they mater based on FEELINGS it is taken to hart..

When someone shows up with hard data to disprove those FEELINGS he is told performance differences do not mater and to go play the game.

If it wasn't so transparent it would be comedy gold!

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:09 AM
ROFL

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
You are charging windmills.
Start playing the game and behold why exactly your test has little to do with IL-2 aircombat reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
bla blub
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Get rid of your agenda and you will see people will take you more seriously.
Go figure...

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
You are charging windmills.
Start playing the game and behold why exactly your test has little to do with IL-2 aircombat reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
bla blub
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Get rid of your agenda and you will see people will take you more seriously.
Go figure... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So..

Let me see if I understand this blue crew logic here..

DKoor can go on for months about how the Spit is over modeled based on no real world data.. Making statements that it can out perform the 109 and therefore is a clown wagon..

I take the time to actully do a test that proves what DKoor has been saying for months is in error..

And DKoor gets a pass and I am the one with an agenda?

Does the blue crew really think the members of this forum are that stupid?

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:29 AM
Yes please?

DKoor
10-27-2007, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You all still FEEL the Spit is the clown wagon.. even though the 109 beats it in every category.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>To simplify matters to the bone... what part of the two English words "No Overheat" did you not understand? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You seem very upset to find out that even with the overheat issue the 109 can out do the Spit in every category. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, can a 109 get it too then?
You can take all the RoC you want?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So..

If the 109 out preforms the 'clown wagon'..

What does that make the 109?

King of clown wagons? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>8th placed Red Wing story construction.... (out of 8 possible).

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 09:31 AM
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:37 AM
Naw. I just didn't know that "ab" meant that you are answering the post ( my answer wasn't the rethorical device it seemed to you ).

I don't support DKoor in his views but in this case your "style" just denied any objective review of the subject within the different threads.

Honestly, I read your tests with great interest but your polemics interfere with the contend of your message.
And as you utilize your style to win the argument you should be able to stand up to a reply that is equaly polemic and doesn't explain why I come to the conclusion that the test is not representative for a combat situation.
Still listening?

EDIT
Your ways of altering posts every 2 minutes doesn't help either

Daiichidoku
10-27-2007, 09:39 AM
now now boys, before thigns get out of hand, let me remind yo uall,

1 NO reasonable posts, doping is illegal
2 NO hitting above the good taste line
3 those found to not have buckshot n plaster fist wraps will be DQ

FIGHT!*ding*

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Naw. I just didn't know that "ab" meant that you are answering the post ( my answer wasn't the rethorical device it seemed to you ).

I don't support DKoor in his views but in this case your "style" just denied any objective review of the subject within the different threads.

Honestly, I read your tests with great interest but your polemics interfere with the contend of your message.
And as you utilize your style to win the argument you should be able to stand up to a reply that is equaly polemic and doesn't explain why I come to the conclusion that the test is not representative for a combat situation.
Still listening?

EDIT
Your ways of altering posts every 2 minutes doesn't help either </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Im sorry.. where you operating under the false impression that I give a rip about what you think of my style? For future reference, know that I don't! As for the edit button, that is why they put it there, to edit! SAVVY?

DKoor
10-27-2007, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes..... but you are still far ahead in the upset race with your 109K RoC.

AKA_TAGERT
10-27-2007, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes..... but you are still far ahead in the upset race with your 109K RoC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true..

FACTS don't upset me..

The truth is funny like that..

Where as FEELINGS presented as FACT do humor me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So I do have to thank you for that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HuninMunin
10-27-2007, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Naw. I just didn't know that "ab" meant that you are answering the post ( my answer wasn't the rethorical device it seemed to you ).

I don't support DKoor in his views but in this case your "style" just denied any objective review of the subject within the different threads.

Honestly, I read your tests with great interest but your polemics interfere with the contend of your message.
And as you utilize your style to win the argument you should be able to stand up to a reply that is equaly polemic and doesn't explain why I come to the conclusion that the test is not representative for a combat situation.
Still listening?

EDIT
Your ways of altering posts every 2 minutes doesn't help either </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Im sorry.. where you operating under the false impression that I give a rip about what you think of my style? For future reference, know that I don't! As for the edit button, that is why they put it there, to edit! SAVVY? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then stop getting all aroused because of my posting.
About the edit...well I just think it's funny to actually see physical proof that you don't think before you type, thats all.
But wait - we have learned from experience that you can't comprehend written words.....
So be it; Kitty time again.

http://www.roflcats.com/images/0078.jpg

DKoor
10-27-2007, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes..... but you are still far ahead in the upset race with your 109K RoC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true..

FACTS don't upset me..

The truth is funny like that..

Where as FEELINGS presented as FACT do humor me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Great!

Yeah truth is funny...
...and I bet you're thinking about Truth V1.00 and not the Truth V2.00, right? Or perhaps it was V3.00?

Don't worry... be confused no more!
I've heard from trustworthy source that Arcade Team will soon be out, happy with their newest release of the Truth V4.00α!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So I do have to thank you for that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, no!
Don't thank me...
I was merely a trigger...

MOH_MADMAN
10-27-2007, 02:41 PM
im blue crew, and rusty, and a k4 pilot.

ill swap that k4c3 for your 25lb spit for a lil test battle anyday.
properly flown that spit should wax the k4c3, and does in capable hands. id love to be able to reach out at 600-800m and knock your wing off for starters or just to wound you, while youll have to close to under 250m to consider a shot, but its closer to 150m or less, and usually at 90 degree deflection, that big 30mm gun is not an easy shot.
let me know if youd like a test run.

MAD

BaronUnderpants
10-27-2007, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes..... but you are still far ahead in the upset race with your 109K RoC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true..

FACTS don't upset me..

The truth is funny like that..

Where as FEELINGS presented as FACT do humor me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So I do have to thank you for that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What u presented as FACTS Tagert...is what u FEEL is the RIGHT FACTS.....plain and simple. For crying out loud, u made your OWN testprogram if im not misstaken. U can tweek it anyway u like...and as i understand it, not many HUMAN pilots can duplicate the figures u come up with, because u amongst other things use a autopilot during testing? did i understand that correctly...autopilot? And we are supose to take toose numbers as FACTS?

So what if the BF climbs to 30 000 feet in 2 min flat...whats the point when its not duable ingame.....not even talking about RL here.

A lot of pople simply dont agree with them.

That means:

A. Either everybody that dissegrees with u are stupid.

Or

B. U are wrong.

I know wich one U pick.


BTW. Nice tuch in the Bf climbtest where u ease of power not to kill the engine before u can even FINISH the test.

I know...in your world that translate into "Bf beats Spit in climb with less than full power"......In IL2 world it means " your dead within...oh, 8 min.....if your THAT good"


Tell u what, ill trade u the Bf`s AMAZING climbrate for "your" Spit`s NO OVERHEAT...deal?


Oh, guess what, i dont care about the Spit OR the Bf109K4 in any way, shape or form.....but to bring up K4`s overrated climb ( wich in most cases is a mute point due to numerus other issues.....just to defend a INSANE no damage, run at full power for 50 min stupidity, is just plain.....stupid.

U seriusly think a 30% better climbrate compared to RL ( according to u that is ) is gonna help u in game against a "full power for 50 min straight ac"?

And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT.

VK_Dim
10-27-2007, 05:35 PM
nuff said

Insuber
10-27-2007, 05:38 PM
Hi Tagert,

Thanks for your testing data. Your graphs show that the Spit has a broad advantage in ROC at low alts, up to around 4'000 ft, with parity reached at around 1'500 m (5'000 ft). During the climb the 109 catches up only around 3'000 m.

Maybe this may explain the inferiority complex of some online 109ers.

Regards,
Insuber

joe.08
10-27-2007, 11:41 PM
"And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Im not sure which spit you're talking about but the seaspit (2nd on the list in qmb) overheats at least once per quick mission builder that i fly (my qmbs never last more than 20, 30 min tops).

granted I'm pretty new to flight sims and keep my radiator set to right before full open (80% iirc), but I rarely if ever use WEP.

not sayin you're wrong (or that i give a **** about charts) but 48 mins is crazy.

the whole reason i try not to use wep is cause i read somewheres that the E stood for emergency and that in some birds back then they had a bit of safety wire (that needed to be broken)so that the pilots would have to explain why they thought it nesesary to over stress the engine...

..anyway...

48 minutes... really?

Ratsack
10-27-2007, 11:51 PM
As in the title of the thread, the Spitfire in question is the Spitfire LF MkIX with 25lb boost. The Seafire that you're talking about is really a naval MkV. It's a very different kettle of fish.

For a start, the MkV (and Seafire) used a single-speed, single-stage supercharger. The MkIX used a two-speed supercharger (i.e., high and low alt gears), with an intercooler (i.e., first compressor stage, then condenser, then second compressor stage, and thus two-stage). This gave the MkIX a top speed about 30 mph higher than the MkV. Secondly, the Spit IX had automatic flaps on the radiators. Thirdly, the Spit V had a normal constant speed propeller, whereas the Spit IXs in the game are modeled with some sort of automatic propeller control. I don't know if this is historical or not.

Chalk and cheese, to put it simply.

cheers,
Ratsack

joe.08
10-28-2007, 12:10 AM
wow, i knew about the prop pitch (in game not rl)but besides that i really assumed them all to be essentially the same.

thanks for info though

Polyperhon
10-28-2007, 06:12 AM
I don't think we are doing the right comparison here.No question the Bf 109K-4 C3 is much faster above 2.000m and climbs better.No doubt for me that is the best between the two.Have you thought that the real comparison is between XIV and K-4C3?

BaronUnderpants
10-28-2007, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joe.08:
"And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Im not sure which spit you're talking about but the seaspit (2nd on the list in qmb) overheats at least once per quick mission builder that i fly (my qmbs never last more than 20, 30 min tops).

granted I'm pretty new to flight sims and keep my radiator set to right before full open (80% iirc), but I rarely if ever use WEP.

not sayin you're wrong (or that i give a **** about charts) but 48 mins is crazy.

the whole reason i try not to use wep is cause i read somewheres that the E stood for emergency and that in some birds back then they had a bit of safety wire (that needed to be broken)so that the pilots would have to explain why they thought it nesesary to over stress the engine...

..anyway...

48 minutes... really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Its the Spit25, WEP, no radiator ( for u to worrie about anyways )

Above 6000 m u CAN run the Spit at full power with WEP as long as u have fuel ( 100% ). If "overheat" appears, just climb hard dropping to below 250 km/h TAS and the overheat goes back to normal ( a loop for ex. ).....or u dive, reaching above 600 km/h TAS ( B&Z for ex ) and the overheat will....u guessed it, dissepeare. Kind of neat feature, since climbing hard and diving and so forth is pretty much what your doing in dogfights.


P.S. Personal best for me in the Spit25 is a grand total of 58 min on full WEP power. Started at 7500m, reached 11750 m and ended up at sealevel where the engine started to make noises just as the fuel ran out. According to others the engine makes noises, "overheat" goes back to normal and u lose speed down to 480 km/h, thats it. Thats what happens when the Spit engine is "destroyed" ( at sealevel, NOT above 6000m ), not that it matters since u dont have any fuel left anyways.

turnipkiller
10-28-2007, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the whole reason i try not to use wep is cause i read somewheres that the E stood for emergency and that in some birds back then they had a bit of safety wire (that needed to be broken)so that the pilots would have to explain why they thought it nesesary to over stress the engine...

..anyway...

48 minutes... really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I always understood too. I've read accounts of pilots "pushing the throttle through the gate" for emergency power but only in dire situations where they had to get away quick but it could only be used for a short amount of time. Didn't it cause some sort of damage to the engine and require a rebuild?

VW-IceFire
10-28-2007, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joe.08:
"And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Im not sure which spit you're talking about but the seaspit (2nd on the list in qmb) overheats at least once per quick mission builder that i fly (my qmbs never last more than 20, 30 min tops).

granted I'm pretty new to flight sims and keep my radiator set to right before full open (80% iirc), but I rarely if ever use WEP.

not sayin you're wrong (or that i give a **** about charts) but 48 mins is crazy.

the whole reason i try not to use wep is cause i read somewheres that the E stood for emergency and that in some birds back then they had a bit of safety wire (that needed to be broken)so that the pilots would have to explain why they thought it nesesary to over stress the engine...

..anyway...

48 minutes... really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Remember when people complain about the Spitfire its almost always just the one model (IX +25lb boost) or maybe two (maybe the regular IX). The Mark V in all of its various versions including the Seafire III is almost never mentioned. Probably because its not the ultra Spitfire so nobody really cares and also because performance wise its good to just average for its year.

Its the typical argument at Ubisoft...its repeated over and over throughout the years. Usually one or two posts in ten are worth reading and the rest are paranoia or agenda pushers or someone who just came from an online game and had been shot down by a Spitfire and are here to decry the injustice of it all.

Seen it all before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
10-28-2007, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joe.08:
"And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Im not sure which spit you're talking about but the seaspit (2nd on the list in qmb) overheats at least once per quick mission builder that i fly (my qmbs never last more than 20, 30 min tops).

granted I'm pretty new to flight sims and keep my radiator set to right before full open (80% iirc), but I rarely if ever use WEP.

not sayin you're wrong (or that i give a **** about charts) but 48 mins is crazy.

the whole reason i try not to use wep is cause i read somewheres that the E stood for emergency and that in some birds back then they had a bit of safety wire (that needed to be broken)so that the pilots would have to explain why they thought it nesesary to over stress the engine...

..anyway...

48 minutes... really? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Remember when people complain about the Spitfire its almost always just the one model (IX +25lb boost) or maybe two (maybe the regular IX). The Mark V in all of its various versions including the Seafire III is almost never mentioned. Probably because its not the Superfire with no overheato feature so nobody really cares and also because performance wise its good to just average for its year.

Its the typical argument at Ubisoft...its repeated over and over throughout the years. Usually one or two posts in ten are worth reading and the rest are paranoia or agenda pushers or someone who just came from an online game and had been shot down by a Spitfire and are here to decry the injustice of it all.

Seen it all before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>fixed

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:

fixed

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this new trend supposed to be humorous, educational, or just that the ******s who do it can't think of an original answer, so they modify a quote.

Which, BTW, is then not a quote. So in deference to proper English, delete the 'quote' part as it's not a quote anymore if it's been modified, is it?

DKoor
10-28-2007, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:

fixed

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this new trend supposed to be humorous, educational, or just that the ******s who do it can't think of an original answer, so they modify a quote.

Which, BTW, is then not a quote. So in deference to proper English, delete the 'quote' part as it's not a quote anymore if it's been modified, is it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lack of oxygen in brain is a bad thing..... reason because I mentioned it is that you have showed a school example of one suffering from it.
Here are your results:

FINAL SCORE scale 0/10 (5th most important stats for this category):

Wit attempt = 0pts
Eloquence = 0pts
Arcade Rage level = 10pts
Bias = 3pts
Execution = 4pts

Not that bad if you ask me...

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Lack of oxygen in my brain is a bad thing..... reason because I mentioned it is that I have showed a school example of one suffering from it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Phil_K
10-28-2007, 10:33 AM
I call this kind of thread a "tw@t thread".

DKoor
10-28-2007, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Lack of oxygen in my brain is a bad thing..... reason because I mentioned it is that I have showed a school example of one suffering from it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I know that's self-worry that is speaking from you.... but fear not!
I have a solution for you.... breathing!

Try to do it regularly before you post - it helps beyond belief!

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
I know that's self-worry that is speaking from me.... but fear not!
I have a solution.... breathing!

I'll try to do it regularly before I post - it helps beyond belief! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

DKoor
10-28-2007, 10:50 AM
You insist on pre-post non-breathing....
OK... It must be one of those black-out days.....

What is it today...?
Wait....

Let me guess first.

Has to be another unsuccessful sortie in KlownFire where you turned so hard that all your blood went down..... and now there's no way to get that oxygen into your brain in some reasonable time.
And to add insult to an injury you got Mk108-ized from the rear too.

That said, you have every right to be afraid for your future virtual existence...
...words is out...
SoW BoB will have it featured even more detailed than IL-2.

So not only that you'll be fainting before you post, you'll be fainting live in the game too.
Tough deal, sorry.

But hey....
...perhaps it's not too late....
...maybe you can PM all your friends who have connection within Grand Arcade Team Council so that they can assembly all their charts & proofs in one large Arcade Manifesto to counter already planned Oleg's live black outs & faints for arcade tnbers in SoW BoB.

See? Maybe not all is lost after all.

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:


Maybe I'm lost after all.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

DKoor
10-28-2007, 11:00 AM
Relatively bad news.....
I just checked with the online Arcade ER HQ....
It's a parrotized-zombified version... it'll probably pass!

On the bright side, you are still able to speak....

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:

On the bright side, I'm not going to speak anymore....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

DKoor
10-28-2007, 11:34 AM
fneb

Freelancer-1
10-28-2007, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Freelancer FTW
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Brain32
10-28-2007, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Freelancer FTW
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mooommmy I discovered quote button, it took two years but I'm finally there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AKA_TAGERT
10-28-2007, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
You seem to be very upset by the FACT that the 109 at lower than max throttle settings can out preform the Spit at max throttle settings </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes..... but you are still far ahead in the upset race with your 109K RoC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true..

FACTS don't upset me..

The truth is funny like that..

Where as FEELINGS presented as FACT do humor me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So I do have to thank you for that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What u presented as FACTS Tagert...is what u FEEL is the RIGHT FACTS.....plain and simple. For crying out loud, u made your OWN testprogram if im not misstaken. U can tweek it anyway u like...and as i understand it, not many HUMAN pilots can duplicate the figures u come up with, because u amongst other things use a autopilot during testing? did i understand that correctly...autopilot? And we are supose to take toose numbers as FACTS?

So what if the BF climbs to 30 000 feet in 2 min flat...whats the point when its not duable ingame.....not even talking about RL here.

A lot of pople simply dont agree with them.

That means:

A. Either everybody that dissegrees with u are stupid.

Or

B. U are wrong.

I know wich one U pick.


BTW. Nice tuch in the Bf climbtest where u ease of power not to kill the engine before u can even FINISH the test.

I know...in your world that translate into "Bf beats Spit in climb with less than full power"......In IL2 world it means " your dead within...oh, 8 min.....if your THAT good"


Tell u what, ill trade u the Bf`s AMAZING climbrate for "your" Spit`s NO OVERHEAT...deal?


Oh, guess what, i dont care about the Spit OR the Bf109K4 in any way, shape or form.....but to bring up K4`s overrated climb ( wich in most cases is a mute point due to numerus other issues.....just to defend a INSANE no damage, run at full power for 50 min stupidity, is just plain.....stupid.

U seriusly think a 30% better climbrate compared to RL ( according to u that is ) is gonna help u in game against a "full power for 50 min straight ac"?

And Spit running at full power with WEP for 48 min straight is not based on FEELINGS...its a FACT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Bartender..

Ill have what he is drinkin

AKA_TAGERT
10-28-2007, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Insuber:
Hi Tagert,

Thanks for your testing data. Your graphs show that the Spit has a broad advantage in ROC at low alts, up to around 4'000 ft, with parity reached at around 1'500 m (5'000 ft). During the climb the 109 catches up only around 3'000 m.

Maybe this may explain the inferiority complex of some online 109ers.

Regards,
Insuber </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know what complex it is.. but it is something!

Long story short..

The purpose of this comparsion was to show that DKoor was wrong when he said the Spit would evetully own the 109 in climb due to the 109 overheating and the Spit not over heating.

Both planes overheat

Thus both planes require you to ease off the throttle from time to time..

But as you can see the Spit never catches the 109.. As you noted, the Spit has a better ROC at low alt, thus they start out close, but due to the 109K4C3's ~20% beter than real ROC of the 109 walks away from the Spit!

The real kicker here is that the Spit fuel load is at ~83% and the 109 fuel load is at 100%!

Thus if one were to redo the test with the Spit at 100% fuel the separation differences would be even larger!


IN SUMMARY
The 109 at 100% fuel out climbs the Spit at lower than max power settings due to it's unrealistic ~20% better than real ROC, even when the Spit is at less than a 100% fuel load

Yet the Spit is referred to as the clown wagon by the blue crew..

Go figure!

VK_Dim
10-28-2007, 03:55 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/8431067106

ElAurens
10-28-2007, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Does the blue crew really think the members of this forum are that stupid? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's called "the big lie", remember?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DKoor
10-29-2007, 10:16 AM
He he........
That almost sounds like arcade team gives a squat about truth.
Nice joke.

luftluuver
10-29-2007, 10:34 AM
The real joke is that new aryan supremacy board which can spew manure to its hearts content. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

WOLFMondo
10-29-2007, 10:41 AM
109K4C3 is the undisputed king of clown wagons. Cannot argue with facts.

MEGILE
10-29-2007, 10:52 AM
The Lerche is a fantasy-klown wagon, and looks like a butt plug.

RegRag1977
10-29-2007, 10:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
The real joke is that new aryan supremacy board which can spew manure to its hearts content. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't take it so bad, it's only in your head http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Freelancer-1
10-29-2007, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
The Lerche is a fantasy-klown wagon, and looks like a butt plug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After the hackers get done with it, it'll look more like this:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/FB%20Screens/Dill.jpg

Even better than a butt plug http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DKoor
10-29-2007, 11:32 AM
http://i23.tinypic.com/28sye8m.jpg
Arcade Support Group in action

na85
10-29-2007, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
The Lerche is a fantasy-klown wagon, and looks like a butt plug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lmao