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john63
05-12-2011, 06:29 PM
Hello all. After reading about AC:R, some things from AC:B suddenly made sense to me, and I wanted to see what you all thought.

First, when Juno spoke about TWCB's six senses, she said that assassins "see the blue shimmer, hear the words, but do not know." This suggests to me that eagle vision is a weaker, not-fully developed version of TWCB's 6th sense.

Now, there was an article about AC:R that mentioned that eagle vision would be upgraded to eagle sense. Perhaps this upgrade is what Juno referred to; maybe either Altair or Ezio interacted with a Piece of Eden, or other TWCB technology, that allowed this potential sense to become fully developed. And maybe through the bleeding effect, whatever happened to Ezio/Altair will happen to Desmond.

Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather, and that "finding him in the darkness" is reliving part of 16's life, though the bleeding effect.

Also, after reading a synopsis of "The Fall" comic book, I had an idea about why Juno forced Desmond to kill Lucy. The idea has been thrown around that she was a triple-agent (a templar, pretending to be an assassin, pretending to be a templar (in AC1)), but that seems too convoluted to me. However, maybe she had been made into a sleeper-cell, like Daniel Cross in "The Fall," whose objective was to encourage the assassins to find pieces of eden. Once a PoE had been found, she would have been "triggered," and she'd kill the assassins and either bring the PoE to Abstergo or signal the Templars somehow. That's why Juno had to intercede at that moment, and stop Lucy from being triggered.

However, since we have no evidence of Abstergo ever experimenting on Lucy, this theory's a bit farfetched.

Still drawing a blank about Juno/16 telling Desmond to find "Eve." It couldn't be the literal Eve, from the AC2 truth video... *shrug*

john63
05-12-2011, 06:29 PM
Hello all. After reading about AC:R, some things from AC:B suddenly made sense to me, and I wanted to see what you all thought.

First, when Juno spoke about TWCB's six senses, she said that assassins "see the blue shimmer, hear the words, but do not know." This suggests to me that eagle vision is a weaker, not-fully developed version of TWCB's 6th sense.

Now, there was an article about AC:R that mentioned that eagle vision would be upgraded to eagle sense. Perhaps this upgrade is what Juno referred to; maybe either Altair or Ezio interacted with a Piece of Eden, or other TWCB technology, that allowed this potential sense to become fully developed. And maybe through the bleeding effect, whatever happened to Ezio/Altair will happen to Desmond.

Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather, and that "finding him in the darkness" is reliving part of 16's life, though the bleeding effect.

Also, after reading a synopsis of "The Fall" comic book, I had an idea about why Juno forced Desmond to kill Lucy. The idea has been thrown around that she was a triple-agent (a templar, pretending to be an assassin, pretending to be a templar (in AC1)), but that seems too convoluted to me. However, maybe she had been made into a sleeper-cell, like Daniel Cross in "The Fall," whose objective was to encourage the assassins to find pieces of eden. Once a PoE had been found, she would have been "triggered," and she'd kill the assassins and either bring the PoE to Abstergo or signal the Templars somehow. That's why Juno had to intercede at that moment, and stop Lucy from being triggered.

However, since we have no evidence of Abstergo ever experimenting on Lucy, this theory's a bit farfetched.

Still drawing a blank about Juno/16 telling Desmond to find "Eve." It couldn't be the literal Eve, from the AC2 truth video... *shrug*

dchil279
05-13-2011, 06:29 PM
I like all of these theories except for subject 16 being Desmond's ancestor... I just don't see it

xsatanicjokerx
05-13-2011, 06:46 PM
This should answer what is gonna be revealed in revelations (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/05/13/ac-revelations-back-to-the-present.aspx)

TwentyGlyphs
05-14-2011, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Black Room is intriguing to me. It's definitely related to Subject 16 somehow, but what we don't know yet is whether it exists as part of the Animus already, or if Subject 16's executable program from Brotherhood created it for Desmond.

The Game Informer article said that the Black Room exists behind the White Room loading screen. That sounds like somewhere the rifts from Brotherhood might lead. After Desmond enters the first one and walks through the weird dark area toward the cube that starts the Cluster puzzle, Rebecca says "You dropped out of the grid. Where were you?" Desmond responds, "Not sure. Some kind of fragmented memory?" Then you go on to play the Cluster 1 puzzles.

It's possible that the Black Room exists inside the Animus and is a place where the users' fragmented memories can wind up as they use the Animus. That could explain why Subject 16 is there for Desmond to find. It would be cool if it were possible for Desmond to find one of 16's memories in there and gets to relive it and see something important.

It's all speculation at this point, but the concept sounds really interesting and it's obvious they were setting it up in Brotherhood.

phil.llllll
05-14-2011, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
First, when Juno spoke about TWCB's six senses, she said that assassins "see the blue shimmer, hear the words, but do not know." This suggests to me that eagle vision is a weaker, not-fully developed version of TWCB's 6th sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eagle vision is indeed a sixth sense (only part of it though, obviously) as mentioned in the first game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Now, there was an article about AC:R that mentioned that eagle vision would be upgraded to eagle sense. Perhaps this upgrade is what Juno referred to; maybe either Altair or Ezio interacted with a Piece of Eden, or other TWCB technology, that allowed this potential sense to become fully developed. And maybe through the bleeding effect, whatever happened to Ezio/Altair will happen to Desmond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's still only part of it. It's an upgrade for sure but I think there's a lot more to be had.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:

Still drawing a blank about Juno/16 telling Desmond to find "Eve." It couldn't be the literal Eve, from the AC2 truth video... *shrug* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps this ties into the sixth sense. Not that he goes back in time literally but through his new awakened knowledge will be able to gleam something from her in her time.

SleezeRocker
05-14-2011, 01:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because Subject 16 Desmond's unknown twin Brother(hood) :P

ChaosxNetwork
05-15-2011, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
I like all of these theories except for subject 16 being Desmond's ancestor... I just don't see it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They have to be related in some way, they both have a common ancestor - Ezio, and so Altiar.

iN3krO
05-15-2011, 06:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xHITx_Chaos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
I like all of these theories except for subject 16 being Desmond's ancestor... I just don't see it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They have to be related in some way, they both have a common ancestor - Ezio, and so Altiar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ezio are not their common ancestor... Lucy tells desmond that s16 is related to what happened in vatican on ac2 maybe he was mario http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ForsakenMessiah
05-15-2011, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person.

The reason I'm saying this is because at the end of The Da Vinci Disappearance we hear the voices of William M and another unknown person having a conversation about Desmond.
*spoilers below*

"You can sedate Desmond now, we have the information we needed.

It's too late, the damage is done. He seems to have entered some kind of coma.

He'll find his way out. He always has in the past."

*/spoilers*

Now, I also see people saying that he is Altair and Ezio as well, and that as Altair when he was studying the PoE, he truly did find a way to achieve immortality which is what he was trying to do as stated in the codex, and maybe these seals we collect in ACR are a way to reawaken his memories.

Others may argue against this by saying "Thats impossible, because we see Ezio as a baby in AC2" well, no its not impossible, maybe the way he achieved immortality is through some kind of reincarnation.

The only snag I come across with this theory is when we play as Altair in AC2 and after he meets up with Maria, the bleeding effect stays with impregnated Maria, unless we get into some really deep disturbing stuff where his child is also his next incarnations grandparent.
Thoughts?

Turkiye96
05-15-2011, 03:32 PM
see from what iv understood lucy got stabbled because either in the future desmond has to choose between her and the greater good ( so she would have to die) or its because lucy would save him from the coma (but he needs to be in the coma to be in the animus to learn how to use eagle sence through the bleediing effect) in which case Lucy is only injured and temporarily unavailable ( the second theory is more likely as they wouldnt kill off Lucy half way through)

iN3krO
05-15-2011, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person.

The reason I'm saying this is because at the end of The Da Vinci Disappearance we hear the voices of William M and another unknown person having a conversation about Desmond.
*spoilers below*

"You can sedate Desmond now, we have the information we needed.

It's too late, the damage is done. He seems to have entered some kind of coma.

He'll find his way out. He always has in the past."

*/spoilers*

Now, I also see people saying that he is Altair and Ezio as well, and that as Altair when he was studying the PoE, he truly did find a way to achieve immortality which is what he was trying to do as stated in the codex, and maybe these seals we collect in ACR are a way to reawaken his memories.

Others may argue against this by saying "Thats impossible, because we see Ezio as a baby in AC2" well, no its not impossible, maybe the way he achieved immortality is through some kind of reincarnation.

The only snag I come across with this theory is when we play as Altair in AC2 and after he meets up with Maria, the bleeding effect stays with impregnated Maria, unless we get into some really deep disturbing stuff where his child is also his next incarnations grandparent.
Thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have seen ezio borning and their parents alive -.-'' One of them should be death (the one that is a descendent of altair, geovani i supose) to apply this reincarnation thing ...

Turkiye96
05-15-2011, 04:16 PM
guys, seeing as desmond will gain the 6th sence and be able to remeber everything about the past ''A hundred years I might speak and still you would not know us. You with five senses. Us with six. The one we kept from you. To be safe.'' she is refering to how history get distorted and how we cant remember the past as humans, when she says its to be safe she it trying to say that if hey do something to us of if something happens it can be covered up. so the 6th sense ( being eagle sense that allows us to re-live the memories of an ancestor without a machine) will give desmond access to a first hand view of all of history with no inaccuracies so he will become a lot smarted and know some cool new secrets :P ( asuming my theory is correct)

Will_Lucky
05-15-2011, 04:32 PM
I have a feeling Eagle Sense isn't the 6th sense in its full form, perhaps its more to do with Ezios age. He has been using his abilities for near 50 years and Eagle Vision has naturally progressed.

dchil279
05-15-2011, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person.

The reason I'm saying this is because at the end of The Da Vinci Disappearance we hear the voices of William M and another unknown person having a conversation about Desmond.
*spoilers below*

"You can sedate Desmond now, we have the information we needed.

It's too late, the damage is done. He seems to have entered some kind of coma.

He'll find his way out. He always has in the past."

*/spoilers*

Now, I also see people saying that he is Altair and Ezio as well, and that as Altair when he was studying the PoE, he truly did find a way to achieve immortality which is what he was trying to do as stated in the codex, and maybe these seals we collect in ACR are a way to reawaken his memories.

Others may argue against this by saying "Thats impossible, because we see Ezio as a baby in AC2" well, no its not impossible, maybe the way he achieved immortality is through some kind of reincarnation.

The only snag I come across with this theory is when we play as Altair in AC2 and after he meets up with Maria, the bleeding effect stays with impregnated Maria, unless we get into some really deep disturbing stuff where his child is also his next incarnations grandparent.
Thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not this crap again

phil.llllll
05-15-2011, 11:30 PM
Yeah I don't get how Desmond could be 16... not quite sure where people are getting that from.

Now Altair and Ezio, on the other hand, makes a lot more sense.

ForsakenMessiah
05-16-2011, 03:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have seen ezio borning and their parents alive -.-'' One of them should be death (the one that is a descendent of altair, geovani i supose) to apply this reincarnation thing ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really, I didnt say he had to be his own father, maybe his own grandfather or great grandfather.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
Not this crap again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lmao, I know it sounds far fetched, but so does an advanced civilisation from the past with amazing technology that can do almost anything, and as Alexandre Amancio quoted "Any sufficiently evolved technology, resembles magic."

It is just a thoery and is neither more or less likely to happen than any other theory... (okay maybe a little less likely)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Yeah I don't get how Desmond could be 16... not quite sure where people are getting that from.

Now Altair and Ezio, on the other hand, makes a lot more sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the same way that Altair made the seals and gets "reborn" (if my theory is correct), it erases the memory and makes new ones, only this time, it didnt make him a baby again :P

I thought it was nonsense myself until i heard that line "He'll find his way out, he always has in the past" which made me think, (maybe a bit too much) it must of happened to him before, but with no memory, and you must admit, subject 16 does sound a LOT like desmond.

OK, now im starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, better wheel me off to the looney bin now.

M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S
05-16-2011, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person.

The reason I'm saying this is because at the end of The Da Vinci Disappearance we hear the voices of William M and another unknown person having a conversation about Desmond.
*spoilers below*

"You can sedate Desmond now, we have the information we needed.

It's too late, the damage is done. He seems to have entered some kind of coma.

He'll find his way out. He always has in the past."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I Think you guys are looking a little to deep into this, it's likely that he's just referring to Desmond's escape from the farm.

iN3krO
05-16-2011, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ForsakenMessiah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by john63:
Next, about subject 16's message to Desmond, to "find him in the darkness." This is very likely a reference to the "Black room," where Desmond will be able to access memories from his life and piece together his subconscious. My question is: if the black room is, basically, Desmond's subconscious, how is 16 there?

One possibility is that 16 is an ancestor of Desmond, maybe his father or grandfather... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably way off, but im starting to believe the other theory that they are more closely related than that, AKA the same person... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have seen ezio borning and their parents alive -.-'' One of them should be death (the one that is a descendent of altair, geovani i supose) to apply this reincarnation thing ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really, I didnt say he had to be his own father, maybe his own grandfather or great grandfather.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
Not this crap again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lmao, I know it sounds far fetched, but so does an advanced civilisation from the past with amazing technology that can do almost anything, and as Alexandre Amancio quoted "Any sufficiently evolved technology, resembles magic."

It is just a thoery and is neither more or less likely to happen than any other theory... (okay maybe a little less likely)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Yeah I don't get how Desmond could be 16... not quite sure where people are getting that from.

Now Altair and Ezio, on the other hand, makes a lot more sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the same way that Altair made the seals and gets "reborn" (if my theory is correct), it erases the memory and makes new ones, only this time, it didnt make him a baby again :P

I thought it was nonsense myself until i heard that line "He'll find his way out, he always has in the past" which made me think, (maybe a bit too much) it must of happened to him before, but with no memory, and you must admit, subject 16 does sound a LOT like desmond.

OK, now im starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, better wheel me off to the looney bin now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually desmond story is like s16 story :O maybe he is s16 but his mind has colapsed and abstergo re-used him from the start (s16 = desmond but while he was considered he followed ezio... than templairs saw that they would need to follow altair and that's where ac1 starts but with a "restart" in desmond's memories at abstergo... they renamed s16 to s17 and now consider they are 2 difrent ppl, maybe they knew about the exec program and that's why they have splited s16 from s17....

an-assassin
05-17-2011, 03:53 AM
I think we will just have to wait until AC:R before we get the answers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"AARRGH, THE WAIT TIME IS KILLING ME!!!!!"