PDA

View Full Version : P-51 Help



CaptJodan
11-24-2005, 11:55 AM
Ok, been playing since the original IL-2. I've figured out the strengths and weaknesses of most aircraft in their flight regimes, save for one.

I just can't get the 51 to work with me. It's an E fighter, but to me, an E fighter MUST CLIMB WELL (Or Boom well, so that the zoom is good). You dive down on an opponent and take out one fighter, but by the time you zoom back up you've bled a great deal, or some other thing that makes it less helpful.

High alt fighting isn't something I can ever get used to. It always degenerates into a low level fight as (this is all offline BTW) the turning AI loves to just keep turning and slowly sink down to ground level. The plane wallows at 7500. Even a light turn causes shaking.

Bottom line, I just can't figure out how to use the strengths to my advantage in this aircraft. Can anyone show me a tutorial or some kind of P-51 tips page that will help me out?

CaptJodan
11-24-2005, 11:55 AM
Ok, been playing since the original IL-2. I've figured out the strengths and weaknesses of most aircraft in their flight regimes, save for one.

I just can't get the 51 to work with me. It's an E fighter, but to me, an E fighter MUST CLIMB WELL (Or Boom well, so that the zoom is good). You dive down on an opponent and take out one fighter, but by the time you zoom back up you've bled a great deal, or some other thing that makes it less helpful.

High alt fighting isn't something I can ever get used to. It always degenerates into a low level fight as (this is all offline BTW) the turning AI loves to just keep turning and slowly sink down to ground level. The plane wallows at 7500. Even a light turn causes shaking.

Bottom line, I just can't figure out how to use the strengths to my advantage in this aircraft. Can anyone show me a tutorial or some kind of P-51 tips page that will help me out?

Sharpe26
11-24-2005, 12:51 PM
I can only offer advice (probably not even sage)

1: keep your speed, use it to your advantage.

2: The Mustang isn't a good turner. so if your opponent turns better then you, see 1. Perhaps the yo-yo maneuver is in order here.

3: practice shooting. those six fiftys you've got are murder if you hit the right spot

4: surprise your opponent

5: get close enough to see the whites of their eyes (methaporically speaking though)

hope it helps.

6: the Pony doesn't like to be yanked and banked, treat her gently and she'll do what you ask of her.

vanjast
11-24-2005, 12:54 PM
High altitude stuff is scary. you cannot push the stick around like you can at lower altitude, you'll loose speed or stall. Combat is now reduced to fleeting passes at high speed.

The P-51 works best at hit-and-run tactics. At low speed she's a b-itch to control now that torque and propwash are modelled. You best avoidance tactic against most planes is the dive away. The only opponent you'll have a problem with is the FW190, and is roughly equal in most respects.

Now if you're hard-headed and ignorant like me, and don't give a toss about chicken-boy tactics, you'll go into a tight turning combat at low speed and use lots of flaps, rudder and engine torque ..etc to wind your way around an attacker. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kuna15
11-24-2005, 12:56 PM
I like P-51C the best of all Mustang variants. With the new patch 4.02. B is also good unlike D model which for some reason I dislike to fly now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif.
If 25% fuel is selected plane behaves really nice and is good in turn to some extent.

btw Sharpe explained it just nice.

CaptJodan
11-24-2005, 01:20 PM
K, I'll try some of those tactics.

Maybe IL-2 doesn't do a good job of siming the kind of combat done on, say the ETO or elsewhere. Otherwise I have to question why the P-51 was even as successful as it was, if you're regulated to so few tricks with the plane.

neural_dream
11-24-2005, 01:27 PM
Find it hard to believe that you haven't learned to master the P-51 if you've been playing for so long. It's a brilliant plane and very popular online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

danjama
11-24-2005, 01:37 PM
"The only opponent you'll have a problem with is the FW190, and is roughly equal in most respects."

You are kidding surely?

LameDuck.
11-24-2005, 02:16 PM
CaptJodan, consider turning down the settings on the joystick, especially for pitch. Roll is not so much an issue. Too much stick=dead pony.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Xiolablu3
11-24-2005, 02:33 PM
The answer to the question of how it became such a legendary fighter and did so well in WW2 combat :-


Because it MASSIVELY outnumbered the opposition, who were aiming for the bombers anyway.

It was great for the job it was made for, it always had the height advantage as it had flown from England, and the German planes were always straining up to get the bombers.

Without the P51 the daylight bombing may have had to be curtailed. The P51 in massive numbers and with massive range was not the best at anything, but it could do the job no other fighter could do, and so it was a milestone.

Kuna15
11-24-2005, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LameDuck.:
Too much stick=dead pony.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smiley=
http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/deadhorse_3.gif

Sharpe26
11-24-2005, 03:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The answer to the question of how it became such a legendary fighter and did so well in WW2 combat :-


Because it MASSIVELY outnumbered the opposition, who were aiming for the bombers anyway.

It was great for the job it was made for, it always had the height advantage as it had flown from England, and the German planes were always straining up to get the bombers.

Without the P51 the daylight bombing may have had to be curtailed. The P51 in massive numbers and with massive range was not the best at anything, but it could do the job no other fighter could do, and so it was a milestone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's not quite true. The bombers flew at heights of between 20 and 30k feet. German interceptors did have height advantage and used it.

If there are high and low formations in a combat box, which do you think got hit the hardest?

Did the Mustang groups massively outnumber the Lufwaffe? In the later part of the war, as in past the Normandy invasion, I'd say yes. But before that, hell no. The first USAAF raid on Berlin was escorted by TWO groups of Mustangs. The 4th and the 354th.

As far as always the height advantage goes; check out Operation Boddenplatte and the battle of Asch.

LameDuck.
11-24-2005, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LameDuck.:
Too much stick=dead pony.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smiley=
http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/deadhorse_3.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent!
Too much stick=http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/deadhorse_3.gif

(Sorry about your grandparents, Kuna. Good luck).

Tully__
11-24-2005, 10:19 PM
I'll remind you that boom & zoom doesn't involve steep climbs. The zoom was done in a shallow climb at high speed. The 'stang is fairly good at this, but you have to be patient. It's not like a high yo-yo that puts you back on the target in only a few seconds, boom and zoom involves almost completing disengaging from the target before re-engaging on your own terms.

p1ngu666
11-24-2005, 11:06 PM
u could try the spit HF, but otherwise the pony isnt that great ingame, oh and ull need decent teammates.

you could also fly blue, cos there planes are easier, but maybe not at high alt..

Hetzer_II
11-24-2005, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you could also fly blue, cos there planes are easier, but maybe not at high alt.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What else would i appriciate from you??

P51 is one of the most dangerous enemy for blue...
Spit just isnt fast enough to hold on long enough with a late 190 or 109... i would take 51 above Spit every time...

CaptJodan
11-24-2005, 11:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u could try the spit HF, but otherwise the pony isnt that great ingame, oh and ull need decent teammates.

you could also fly blue, cos there planes are easier, but maybe not at high alt.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's mostly just about learning what's best for a legend of an AC. Most of the other legend's I've tried, their advantages and disadvantages have been pretty well advertised when you get in the plane and mix it up. The P-51 has been harder for me because....well prodominately I think it's because I'm impatient. To nearly completely disengage and then reengage is a POS, and add to that the AI would then try and head to head you (something you don't do in this glass engined aircraft).

Of course the Spit just begs to be my ride. It's a turn fighter, which I love. The 38 is also a nice ride of mine because of it's climb (which hopefully will be improved later) among other reasons. The 47 would be nice if it didn't have a glass-like engine. The 109 is a great all around aircraft with wonderful climbing abilities as well as decent turn ability. There are, of course, others. (Zeros are just fun, no question about it) But the 51 just never seemed to have something it did really well (except I suppose speed, which it takes a heck of a long time to build up on).

I'll try to use some of these mentioned tactics and see if they change my opinion of the plane. Seems I'm destined for, when I fly American, to be sticking with my 38.

Xiolablu3
11-25-2005, 12:22 AM
I find the p51 very hard to fly too, I just cant seem to get the best out of her, Like CaptJodan, I love the thrill of the turn fight, yanking back and forth, all-over and so I choose the Spit over the P51.

I am a relative noob to the game tho, maybe I will get better at it over time.

Although, my favourite server, UKdedicated 1, has so many different scenarios form early war to late war, I dont get to try out the p51 much as its only on a couple of maps I think. With maps ranging from Spanish civil war right thru to 1945, there are so many planes too fly, you never get to specialise too much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WOLFMondo
11-25-2005, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u could try the spit HF, but otherwise the pony isnt that great ingame, oh and ull need decent teammates.

you could also fly blue, cos there planes are easier, but maybe not at high alt.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IF theres problems with the pony then theres gonna be more with a Anton :P

Sharpe26
11-25-2005, 01:37 AM
one thing to definetly also try, is working with a wingman! be it ai or human!

Monson74
11-25-2005, 04:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CaptJodan:

It's mostly just about learning what's best for a legend of an AC. Most of the other legend's I've tried, their advantages and disadvantages have been pretty well advertised when you get in the plane and mix it up. The P-51 has been harder for me because....well prodominately I think it's because I'm impatient. To nearly completely disengage and then reengage is a POS, and add to that the AI would then try and head to head you (something you don't do in this glass engined aircraft).

Of course the Spit just begs to be my ride. It's a turn fighter, which I love. The 38 is also a nice ride of mine because of it's climb (which hopefully will be improved later) among other reasons. The 47 would be nice if it didn't have a glass-like engine. The 109 is a great all around aircraft with wonderful climbing abilities as well as decent turn ability. There are, of course, others. (Zeros are just fun, no question about it) But the 51 just never seemed to have something it did really well (except I suppose speed, which it takes a heck of a long time to build up on).

I'll try to use some of these mentioned tactics and see if they change my opinion of the plane. Seems I'm destined for, when I fly American, to be sticking with my 38. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to be patient with the 51. It's a long-range high-altitude escort fighter & not a low-level turner which makes it difficult to fly in this game - online because most of the action takes place on the deck & offline because the AI wants to turn (& never blackout). Speed is the key & altitude is like putting money in the bank - you can trade altitude for speed. Further, the engine is best suited for combat above 6k. So get up high & take advantage of the almost non-restricted field of vision, dive on your enemy, work on deflection shooting & zoom away, ONLY turn at high speed or with less than 25% fuel, do not rely on acceleration & barrel rolls is suicide against 109s & 190s. On the deck you'll go 580 km/h at 110% throttle & rads closed which is about the same as most late-war German fighters - that's your last option & you should only do that when you are sure the enemy is not too close.

WOLFMondo
11-25-2005, 05:42 AM
Join warclouds, get to 30,000ft and I'll come fight you. Theres always a few guys flying around at that sort of height. P51 r0x0rs your b0x0rs at that height.

ImpStarDuece
11-25-2005, 06:43 AM
Fly the P-51 in a similar manner to a FW-190A. Stay fast and high, don't get into turn fights. If things go bad, point for the deck and run.

It doesn't turn too well, apart from the initial phase. So don't turn. Use yo-yos and gentle combat turns to gain postional advantage. You dont have to be breathing exhaust fumes to make a shot.

It doesn't climb too well, apart from the zoom climb. So stay fast. If you get slow you can't reasonably expect to climb your way out of trouble.

It has excellent control authority. So stay fast. While planes like the 109 and the Russian birds get sluggish at higher speeds, the P-51 retains very crisp and responsive controls all the way up and over 450 mph.

It dives really well. You can enter a shallow dive and then a challow zoom to try to gain energy or speration from your opponents in hope of a reversal.

It has the best all around visibility in the game. So make sure that you dont have someone saddling up on your six. Situational awareness is key.

Hetzer_II
11-25-2005, 07:19 AM
p51 reaches 604 on crimea map.. only one german prop ist faster.. d9...

So you can fly away from any 109 if you disengage early enough and not when they are 100m behind you...

WOLFMondo
11-25-2005, 07:55 AM
Its important to use allot of trim as well.