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View Full Version : BoB SOW Pics? Are these new? 56K beware



faustnik
05-14-2007, 11:11 AM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Spit%20MkI_1.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Bf-109E-3_01.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Ju-88A-1_1.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Morris%20CDSW-01.jpg

Stubled across these and grabbed them. Not sure if they are new, but, they look REALLY good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

faustnik
05-14-2007, 11:11 AM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Spit%20MkI_1.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Bf-109E-3_01.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Ju-88A-1_1.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Morris%20CDSW-01.jpg

Stubled across these and grabbed them. Not sure if they are new, but, they look REALLY good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Zoom2136
05-14-2007, 11:14 AM
Never seen these

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 11:19 AM
Hmmm... got the link to that source Faust?

csThor
05-14-2007, 11:22 AM
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot.

bhunter2112
05-14-2007, 11:28 AM
Why do we have no web site? Why do we find these things scattered to the four winds? No forum ? What are peoples thoughts - will this game be out by Christmas?

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

TheGozr
05-14-2007, 11:33 AM
Well well... good find..

Exactly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bhunter2112:
Why do we have no web site? Why do we find these things scattered to the four winds? No forum ? What are peoples thoughts - will this game be out by Christmas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not sure how those particular images got out... Why dont we have forum - no idea, i wish i could change that. Will SOW be out by xmas... last i heard it`s a due date.... but due dates could be flexible... honestly do not know.

csThor
05-14-2007, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at pictures of real aircraft and tell me you can see the rivets as clearly as in those screenshots (you can't BTW). All of us skinners are making rivets, screws and panel lines more visible than in reality because it does give the aircraft more of physicalness. It makes them look "more real". But overdo it and you'll have toy aircraft which look like "turned" out of a massive block of metal.

Freelancer-1
05-14-2007, 11:42 AM
Some very nice modeling and detail in those planes.

Anyone know how large the skin voids are going to be.

Looks like 2048x2048 at least.

I second the request for a link.

ploughman
05-14-2007, 11:43 AM
Hold your fire there Thor. You don't know that that is how the final product is going to look, and it may not even be the game engine rendering the image.

faustnik
05-14-2007, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Hmmm... got the link to that source Faust? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it's not there anymore.

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Hold your fire there Thor. You don't know that that is how the final product is going to look, and it may not even be the game engine rendering the image. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyways... as i said i dont know how these got out... they were ment for something else. That Ju88 actually shows internal structure of the engine...meaning that covers can get blown off by gunfire and internals will be exposed... pretty cool stuff. 109 shows how complex model really is... All of this is really great, i am still trying to get a solid update... and forum going.

csThor
05-14-2007, 11:57 AM
I'm quite aware that this is neither going to be the final product nor does it look like an in-engine rendering (in fact the background looks pretty much like 3D Max).

It's just much easier to name the problem before the project is finished than trying to get it corrected afterwards. I've been around ever since Il-2 came to the market and I do know how "stubborn" Oleg can sometimes be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mbfRoy
05-14-2007, 12:02 PM
Shots #2 and #3 indeed look like 3dstudio viewports. In any case, they look fantastic! The shading on the rivets suggest some sexy bumpmapping http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Adlerangriff
05-14-2007, 12:04 PM
"Where one burns rivets, one soon burns planes."

K.Brandle

Jaws2002
05-14-2007, 12:19 PM
Never saw this screens before. Thx faustnik.

That spit looks magnificent. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


If they'll do everything exactly how you wanted from the start, they'll run all you skinners out of business. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Where's the fun in that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Anyway there are styles and prefferences even among the skinners.

Yskonyn23
05-14-2007, 12:35 PM
Aren't these screens from the DVD movie we got with 1946 showing BoB progress?

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 12:39 PM
I dont think so... at least i did not see them on DVD...

ddpairborne59
05-14-2007, 12:48 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifHoly Sh..! Nice! Cant wait. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Foo.bar
05-14-2007, 01:05 PM
Didn't see any of those before. Ju-88 looks amazing. Bump on Spit's wings perhaps little too strong, agree with csThor. Anyway fantastic new stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Looking forward to 88.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-14-2007, 01:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2007, 04:12 PM
After years of confusion, we need to set the record straight here- many members still think that Battle of Britain is the sim, and Storm of War is the first part. The sim is:

Storm of War: Battle of Britain

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2007, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compare to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 04:21 PM
Storm of war is name of the series, as far as i see. Battle of Britain is episode one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I am still not sure if this is working title or release title... i guess we`ll find out soon enough.

crazyivan1970
05-14-2007, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compare to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compare... 3dmax shots to photos... Come on man, lets compare ingame shots to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

FritzGryphon
05-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Yes, compare it to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/theokazakis/resources/spitfire.jpg

But maybe it's not a fair comparison, because Spitfire mk.I was made with boat rivets.

Agamemnon22
05-14-2007, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compare to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compare... 3dmax shots to photos... Come on man, lets compare ingame shots to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That first pic is in-engine. Look at the positional data in top left and the tell-tale background colour. Plus a different engine wouldn't change the relief of the normal map. I agree those rivets are a little exaggerated.

Crikey, if a single-engine spit takes a 2048x2048, I'm glad I started with a 4096x4096 for what I'm doing...

BillyTheKid_22
05-14-2007, 06:13 PM
http://www.rodeoministries.org/howdy.gif



Faustnik, Cool!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif



http://www.plane-design.com/preview_images/spitfire_preview/spitfire1.jpg



http://www.plane-design.com/preview_images/spitfire_preview/spitfire25.jpg



http://www.plane-design.com/preview_images/spitfire_preview/spitfire11.jpg



Great Nice!! Just look!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

www.plane-design.com/ (http://www.plane-design.com/)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40970&stc=1&d=1161929509

heywooood
05-14-2007, 06:35 PM
great! nice! lol Billy! who's your friend? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

heywooood
05-14-2007, 06:38 PM
for what it is worth....I wonder if all these 'leaked' images have anything to do with the load of FSX and WoV BoB images being thrown around here lately....?


leaked schmeeked - this is pure marketing and its about dammmmmtime!

-HH- Beebop
05-14-2007, 06:57 PM
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40970&stc=1&d=1161929509
Girls in garters with guns? And I was complaining that Oleg didn't give us enough (place your favorite whine here).
Does she come with BoB or is she part of an expansion pack?

BillyTheKid_22
05-14-2007, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40970&stc=1&d=1161929509
Girls in garters with guns? And I was complaining that Oleg didn't give us enough (place your favorite whine here).
Does she come with BoB or is she part of an expansion pack? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I just found it!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif and http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

www.conceptart.org/? (http://www.conceptart.org/?)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102082&stc=1&d=1172907284



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102085&stc=1&d=1172907396



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102081&stc=1&d=1172907267



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102083&stc=1&d=1172907303



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102084&stc=1&d=1172907369



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=118159&stc=1&d=1175758795



WoW!! Great NICE!!!

Frequent_Flyer
05-14-2007, 07:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at pictures of real aircraft and tell me you can see the rivets as clearly as in those screenshots (you can't BTW). All of us skinners are making rivets, screws and panel lines more visible than in reality because it does give the aircraft more of physicalness. It makes them look "more real". But overdo it and you'll have toy aircraft which look like "turned" out of a massive block of metal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is very little in the way of quality color pictures showing that close of the rivet detail. Most restored WW II aircraft have a gloss finish making hiding the details from the camera. The rivets were there and caused a lot of drag for most aircraft.

Enthor1
05-14-2007, 07:35 PM
And we wonder why Oleg is AWOL from this place, we get a couple of maybe pics and the whining begins.

VF-17_BOOM
05-14-2007, 07:40 PM
BILLY.You made my night!!!Thahk You!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Freelancer-1
05-14-2007, 07:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Reference%20Air/FW190S_3.jpg

BillyTheKid_22
05-14-2007, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF-17_BOOM:
BILLY.You made my night!!!Thahk You!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=118159&stc=1&d=1175758795



http://www.rodeoministries.org/howdy.gif



Welcome!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
05-14-2007, 08:08 PM
Too many pics to load on this page.

LEXX_Luthor
05-14-2007, 08:11 PM
So we'll bump up the next page.

LEXX_Luthor
05-14-2007, 08:14 PM
Sex = War

Agree with Thor

Most customers will have to use smaller skins, or de-size these titanic skins to something playable like 1024x1024 or less, thus softening the hardcore screenshot simulator rivets. Most likely, the super skins are for advertising in the screenshot review sites.

mbfRoy
05-14-2007, 08:16 PM
Game settings can do that already! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BaldieJr
05-14-2007, 08:43 PM
I totally dig airplane games.

Dagnabit
05-14-2007, 08:58 PM
Those shots are looking very good no matter the source faustnik, thank you for sharing. At least we know someone is working on something thats going to look great when finished.

Oleg_Maddox
05-15-2007, 12:07 AM
It isn't possible to compare screenshot to this photo. First because the resolution of the photo simply don't show details we need to see... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I don't think that screws, etc overdone. How they looks very depending of the light angle hit to the surface. Also it is tunable in the engine. They are bumpmapping feature. Don't worry, everything in final will looks like a cinema http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I just would like to tell that these screens are not official and simply leaked by the case.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Yes, compare it to photos http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/theokazakis/resources/spitfire.jpg

But maybe it's not a fair comparison, because Spitfire mk.I was made with boat rivets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

msalama
05-15-2007, 12:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just would like to tell that these screens are not official and simply leaked by the case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Well, just find the man and give him a flogging is what I say http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Oleg_Maddox
05-15-2007, 12:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Sex = War

Agree with Thor

Most customers will have to use smaller skins, or de-size these titanic skins to something playable like 1024x1024 or less, thus softening the hardcore screenshot simulator rivets. Most likely, the super skins are for advertising in the screenshot review sites. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When Il-2 came to the market many people haven't the equal PC to run it even with 25 fps... But just a bit later already 90% was asking for the greater resolution of skins...
But you right... it will be adjustable for the different level of graphics cards and PC level

Oleg_Maddox
05-15-2007, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frequent_Flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at pictures of real aircraft and tell me you can see the rivets as clearly as in those screenshots (you can't BTW). All of us skinners are making rivets, screws and panel lines more visible than in reality because it does give the aircraft more of physicalness. It makes them look "more real". But overdo it and you'll have toy aircraft which look like "turned" out of a massive block of metal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is very little in the way of quality color pictures showing that close of the rivet detail. Most restored WW II aircraft have a gloss finish making hiding the details from the camera. The rivets were there and caused a lot of drag for most aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did myself a lot of photos from very close look... So my guys are using them as a reference.

Badsight-
05-15-2007, 12:44 AM
^ this kind of public input from game developers is still very rare

cmirko
05-15-2007, 01:15 AM
Hi to our developer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - pictures are beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - we would like some more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as always... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oleg_Maddox
05-15-2007, 02:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cmirko:
Hi to our developer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - pictures are beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - we would like some more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as always... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope in some time, probably this July to start again development updates that will show our progress with BoB. There is something to show http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 02:16 AM
BRAVO!

slipBall
05-15-2007, 02:21 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gifWill be looking forward...by the way, the rivets look good to me

Makabi-
05-15-2007, 02:42 AM
gees, now I have even more of a reason to look forward to this summer, thanks for the information Mr. Maddox. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Feathered_IV
05-15-2007, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
I'm quite aware that this is neither going to be the final product nor does it look like an in-engine rendering (in fact the background looks pretty much like 3D Max).

It's just much easier to name the problem before the project is finished than trying to get it corrected afterwards. I've been around ever since Il-2 came to the market and I do know how "stubborn" Oleg can sometimes be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats true. Best not to applaud the Corgi model rivets, just in case you get stuck with them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

csThor
05-15-2007, 03:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
I hope in some time, probably this July to start again development updates that will show our progress with BoB. There is something to show http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh-oh! Oleg you are aware what you've done here? I tell you - it's July 1, midnight somewhere on this world and someone is going to post: "It's July! Where's the development update? Oleg you promised!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 03:18 AM
We received some pretty over the top rivets on the IL-10 just recently! As in modeling (especially Trumpeter) one person's rivet is another's smallpox etc.

major_setback
05-15-2007, 03:24 AM
Hi Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">http://home.hawaii.rr.com/theokazakis/resources/spitfire.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that you can't compare a late war Spitfire with the first ones built, before flush riveting was used.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Oleg, can't you leek us a few more pictures, eh? Please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 03:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cmirko:
Hi to our developer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - pictures are beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - we would like some more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as always... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our developer?

Yeah, God will be pleased you like his pictures. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2007, 03:49 AM
OLEG

IS

ALIVE


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif

No457_Squog
05-15-2007, 04:04 AM
I've found a Mk. V - pretty much the same as a Mk. I except for engine & armament...

http://users.on.net/~no457_squog/Img_9226s.jpg (http://users.on.net/%7Eno457_squog/Img_9226.jpg)

major_setback
05-15-2007, 04:39 AM
We had this discussion a while back. I think the very early Spits had far more pronounced rivits - I mean the earliest versions if the Mk1 - they seemed to differ, re: rivets, even from the later versions of that aircraft (I seem to remember someone pointing that out).

Angle of view make a difference to how they look. Doesn't bumpmapping also change how light relects and falls on the object rendered? So that in this case you wouldn't see the shading that is on the picture around each rivet, but rather see it as an indentation?

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk084_SpitfireMk1/images%20Ed%20Sullivan/Spit009.jpg

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk084_SpitfireMk1/images%20Ed%20Sullivan/Spit025.jpg

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk084_SpitfireMk1/images%20Ed%20Sullivan/Spit028.jpg

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/001-100/walk084_SpitfireMk1/images%20Ed%20Sullivan/Spit022.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 04:52 AM
Good to see you're alive, Oleg!


I think how the rivets look, depends not only from your point of view and the distance, but a lot more on the way the light is set up. The renders show the effects of bumpmapping with a direct spotlight from low angle.

It shows the effect of the bumpmapping feature nicely, but that is not what it looks like with ambiente light or realistic lighting.
But to create a realistic effect in the right lighting, you usually have to stress effects like these in 3D-Modelling a bit more, than they actually are.

Hetstaine4Real
05-15-2007, 05:03 AM
i did a 5 minute google search and came up with a bunch of pics that show the said offending rivets here (see my post aka Aussie Jim)

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&...8&page=0#Post2211688 (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2211688&page=0#Post2211688)

looks pretty good to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif hate to be an Oleg follower but he has got it pretty right from what i can work out .Looks good.

major_setback
05-15-2007, 06:20 AM
Everybody seems to be missing the point that we get to see reflections/shading on the sides of rivets/indentations (due to bumpmapping I suppose). This is news - good news, as far as I know this was only speculated on before today. :

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Spit20MkI_1kopia.jpg

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 06:39 AM
Thanks for stopping by Oleg, now people will finally believe me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 06:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Reference%20Air/FW190S_3.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes, really- unless the parts circled in yellow are glued on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are more than two sizes of rivets, and although i will be the first to agree that a wing uses more rivets than perhaps some other areas, the point is well made- those rivets are very emphasised. I have never seen a Spit in real life, but I've been on B-17s and B-24s, as well as been to numerous museums where I am standing as close to P-51s and P-47s as I am to my monitir, and I also studied aero in University...and those rivets look very pronounced to me. I've bucked a few rivets into skins, although I do not pretend to be the Rivetting King, I've done it. The rivets look more like stitch work in fabric to me

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/yesreallycopy.jpg

I don;t like to disagree with developers but- I'm being told what I see with my own eyes is "wrong"- and obviously, although my eyes have now degraded to 20/20, I have experienced perspective shadow and highlight once or twice in my life http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But I'm being told "no, you didn't"


I reserve the right to disagree with that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif BUT on the other hand, what Oleg posted about what you will see and how makes perfect sense as well- those pics we are seeing isn't actually the whole story, which of course is perfectly reasonable

And of course, what we are seeing now in these shots is not what we will see in the sim

But the point was made that those rivets need toning down. They sure look that way to me

Zoom2136
05-15-2007, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Lookin good but they need to tone down the rivets and screws a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at pictures of real aircraft and tell me you can see the rivets as clearly as in those screenshots (you can't BTW). All of us skinners are making rivets, screws and panel lines more visible than in reality because it does give the aircraft more of physicalness. It makes them look "more real". But overdo it and you'll have toy aircraft which look like "turned" out of a massive block of metal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at a real aircraft and tell me you can't see the rivet... they are trying to replicate real life aircraft NOT a picture of one... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 06:51 AM
Obviously you can see the rivets, zoom. They aren't invisible. But I feel your are oversimplifying the point in the extreme

By the same token, in the sim, I'm seeing an aircraft not 'in the flesh', but rather replicated on my monitor. Take the lens flare effects we have now- have you ever actually seen that with your naked eye?

The point being made is NOT "You can't see rivets on planes", however

The point was they needed to be toned down. They are very stark and exaggerated looking to me and a few others

The argument made ws not "Nobody can see the rivets"

BaldieJr
05-15-2007, 06:54 AM
What a riveting topic. Flight sim kids are soooo interesting.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Flight sim kids are soooo interesting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is why we love you so much

Zoom2136
05-15-2007, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Obviously you can see the rivets, zoom. They aren't invisible. But I feel your are oversimplifying the point in the extreme

By the same token, in the sim, I'm seeing an aircraft not 'in the flesh', but rather replicated on my monitor. Take the lens flare effects we have now- have you ever actually seen that with your naked eye?

The point being made is NOT "You can't see rivets on planes", however

The point was they needed to be toned down. They are very stark and exaggerated looking to me and a few others

The argument made ws not "Nobody can see the rivets" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Before going to university I studied as an aircraft mechanic... so I was around airplane 24/7... and beleive me the rivet don't need to be tone down... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And for the lens effect... the sunlight at 10000 feet through a fiberglass canopy will cause a halo effect.... very very noticible to the naked eye BTW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

major_setback
05-15-2007, 07:02 AM
The actual rivet size doesn't look too bad to me, but there is quite a lot of (apparent) shading around them. It looks like shading and dust extending for -1 inch or so around the rivets, making it look like the rivet is bigger, or that it sits deep into the wing.
We don't know though if this shading will be seen in the in-game engine; as someone said, it might just be to show where the bumpmapping will be.

csThor
05-15-2007, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
Everybody seems to be missing the point that we get to see reflections/shading on the sides of rivets/indentations (due to bumpmapping I suppose). This is news - good news, as far as I know this was only speculated on before today. :

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Spit20MkI_1kopia.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that this is already bumpmapping. It looks more like the oldest trick in the skinner's manual for faking a depth effect - a "dark" layer and a slightly offset "bright" layer.

Bearcat99
05-15-2007, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Some very nice modeling and detail in those planes.

Anyone know how large the skin voids are going to be.

Looks like 2048x2048 at least.

I second the request for a link. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I believe that is what the SoW skins will be... Man.. that grass looks like my yard in some spots..LOL

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 07:04 AM
There should be a Spitfire appearing at WW2 weekend in PA... i`ll make pictures. I wont be able to make them from this angle of course, unless it will fly inverted heeh... but will try to do my best http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stathem
05-15-2007, 07:11 AM
In all this rivetting conversation has everybody missed what it actually says on the Spitfire's fuel tank?

Kurfie will be happy.

(apologies if someone has already mentioned this, didn't see apost to that effect.)

FritzGryphon
05-15-2007, 07:13 AM
The bumpmapped rivets are really nice. The classic 'black dot' rivets have got to go.

Those were only necessary in the olden days where you had to fake rivets on the diffuse map.

major_setback
05-15-2007, 07:14 AM
Not a Spitfire, but a Blenheim. The wing rivets can be seen (blurred) behind the turret. The rivets are visible, but not sunk into the plane.
Just adding to the confusion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

http://www.totavia.com/imagearchive/aviapix/Medium/Blenheim/g-bpiv_3.jpg

ddpairborne59
05-15-2007, 07:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cmirko:
Hi to our developer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - pictures are beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - we would like some more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as always... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope in some time, probably this July to start again development updates that will show our progress with BoB. There is something to show http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif That would be just wonderful. Just a brilliant sim. Thanks Oleg.

GADGET_101ECV
05-15-2007, 07:20 AM
Flush rivets were introduced in the Spit on version Mk.IX and after.

Anything before that was built with the bumpy rivets kind.

On the other hand, as happens in the very same Spit Fighter Collection flies, wings can come from Mk.x and fuselage from another Mk.y in a kind of Frankestainspit.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 07:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoom2136:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Obviously you can see the rivets, zoom. They aren't invisible. But I feel your are oversimplifying the point in the extreme

By the same token, in the sim, I'm seeing an aircraft not 'in the flesh', but rather replicated on my monitor. Take the lens flare effects we have now- have you ever actually seen that with your naked eye?

The point being made is NOT "You can't see rivets on planes", however

The point was they needed to be toned down. They are very stark and exaggerated looking to me and a few others

The argument made ws not "Nobody can see the rivets" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Before going to university I studied as an aircraft mechanic... so I was around airplane 24/7... and beleive me the rivet don't need to be tone down... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And for the lens effect... the sunlight at 10000 feet through a fiberglass canopy will cause a halo effect.... very very noticible to the naked eye BTW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So essentially you are saying that I have no point at all, and am wrong at every turn. So I've never seen a commercial airliner, the things I see in real life, and the wingboxes that I made, are not actually what other people see. Basically I'm a crazy person who just sees things on the interweb and doesn't know much about much, and I am arguing that rivets should be invisible, while you have all the answers, including what the lens flare is, in 3rd person view, when the camera isn't in the sim plane's cockpit, but rather outside of it. I know nothing, obviously, up to but not excluding what I see at the distance simulated in those pics, with my own eyeballs, which are merely 20/20 nowadays

Gotcha. 'Bye!

Abbeville-Boy
05-15-2007, 07:42 AM
lets not chase oleg away argumenting over rivets just wait awhile
who knows when that shot was taken how many refinements have been made since?

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 07:43 AM
In 1995 there used to be a view of the RAF Museum's Spitfire I from the gallery (in the main building) which perfectly displayed the effect of riveting on the wing aluminum. Hate to be a snob, but I will be. As any modeler knows, riveting does not put discrete little bumps in the location of each rivet as shown in the Oleg Spit image, but it creates a crease in the aluminum along the line of riveting. This effect was plainly visible on the RAF Museum's Spitfire I's wings viewed from above, from the gallery. Frankly, Oleg's interpretation looks ghastly and completely unrealistic. I have photos taken from the vantage point described which I would be glad to provide to Oleg. Another thing. The Spit I had double thickness of skinning over the fuel tank area as protection, and this showed. The Hasegawa 1:48 scale Spitfire VB shows this feature (Tamiya's 1:48 Spitfire I and VB doesn't). Oleg's image doesn't show this.

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 08:42 AM
WOW, there are such big waves over rivets, i can only imagine what happens when some other screenshot surfaces. Do you guys ever read what Oleg said? Or you ingore it all and just keep going with your agenda.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It isn't possible to compare screenshot to this photo. First because the resolution of the photo simply don't show details we need to see...
I don't think that screws, etc overdone. How they looks very depending of the light angle hit to the surface. Also it is tunable in the engine. They are bumpmapping feature. Don't worry, everything in final will looks like a cinema </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
WOW, there are such big waves over rivets, i can only imagine what happens when some other screenshot surfaces. Do you guys ever read what Oleg said? Or you ingore it all and just keep going with your agenda.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It isn't possible to compare screenshot to this photo. First because the resolution of the photo simply don't show details we need to see...
I don't think that screws, etc overdone. How they looks very depending of the light angle hit to the surface. Also it is tunable in the engine. They are bumpmapping feature. Don't worry, everything in final will looks like a cinema </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that wasn't a rhetorical question, I'd ask you, how long you are on this forums and why you think Oleg doesn't post anything here, unless he really feels he needs to do so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
WOW, there are such big waves over rivets, i can only imagine what happens when some other screenshot surfaces. Do you guys ever read what Oleg said? Or you ingore it all and just keep going with your agenda.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
It isn't possible to compare screenshot to this photo. First because the resolution of the photo simply don't show details we need to see...
I don't think that screws, etc overdone. How they looks very depending of the light angle hit to the surface. Also it is tunable in the engine. They are bumpmapping feature. Don't worry, everything in final will looks like a cinema </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read it Ivan. I don't think you read what I wrote, though:

"I reserve the right to disagree with that Smile BUT on the other hand, what Oleg posted about what you will see and how makes perfect sense as well- those pics we are seeing isn't actually the whole story, which of course is perfectly reasonable

And of course, what we are seeing now in these shots is not what we will see in the sim

But the point was made that those rivets need toning down. They sure look that way to me"

By "those rivets" I mean exactly that: what I am seeing looks too exagerrated to me. I understand that is is only part of the effect; that's why I also that those images are not the whole story

But I just can't understand why you are dragging "agenda" into this. What agenda are you seeing?

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 09:27 AM
Maybe "agenda" is just wrong choice of words sid. Remember english is not my first language http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My post was directed not at you actually.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 09:29 AM
Ah. Well dont worry, practically nobody else here speaks English, either!

Freelancer-1
05-15-2007, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

Yes, really- unless the parts circled in yellow are glued on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are more than two sizes of rivets, and although i will be the first to agree that a wing uses more rivets than perhaps some other areas, the point is well made- those rivets are very emphasised. I have never seen a Spit in real life, but I've been on B-17s and B-24s, as well as been to numerous museums where I am standing as close to P-51s and P-47s as I am to my monitir, and I also studied aero in University...and those rivets look very pronounced to me. I've bucked a few rivets into skins, although I do not pretend to be the Rivetting King, I've done it. The rivets look more like stitch work in fabric to me

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/yesreallycopy.jpg


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd expect that little display from many here on the forum, but not you.

Picking out a tiny bit of a picture to prove a point is unfair. Glossing over the rest of the picture that shows well defined and very visible riveting and screws to prove a point is beneath you.

csThor
05-15-2007, 09:47 AM
Rivet size is not what I had in mind. Toning down simply means making the rivets less obvious. Right now they're sticking out like a fresh 5 cm-long scar on some hot chick's forehead. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

horseback
05-15-2007, 10:10 AM
Just for the sake of arguement, isn't it possible that the rivets are an 'artistic interpretation' intended to demonstrate that there will be a very high level of detail in SoW?

It reminds me of the emphasis on 'scribed panel' lines on some plastic scale models I used to see at some IPMS contests & exhibitions; in many cases, they were just as inaccurate as the old 'raised panel lines. Strictly a matter of interpretive fashion in either case.

OTOH, with all those bulging rivets, that Blenheim looked like a very early Airfix offering...

cheers

horseback

NAFP_supah
05-15-2007, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cmirko:
Hi to our developer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - pictures are beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - we would like some more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as always... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope in some time, probably this July to start again development updates that will show our progress with BoB. There is something to show http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good news Mr Maddox. Looking forward to it, I am not quite certain about the rivets look either but perhaps seeing it in action will make a lot of difference http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif btw ... Clickpits! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2007, 10:18 AM
horseback:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just for the sake of arguement, isn't it possible that the rivets are an 'artistic interpretation' intended to demonstrate that there will be a very high level of detail in SoW? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe the Super Skins were made for the screenshot review sites or rags. AI gunners may still see in the dark. AI pilots may still see through clouds. But BoB will have the most "detailed" closeup static cameo screenshots ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 10:20 AM
"may" is the keyword, right Luthor? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mbfRoy
05-15-2007, 10:21 AM
Rather than toning down the rivets I'd get rid of the grey lines that go across them and maybe even the white color in which they are painted.

The bump map looks good to me, it's the (camo) texture that would need to be corrected IMO, but I can see how that would affect the plane looks if someone turned off bumpmapping.

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2007, 10:28 AM
crazyivan:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"may" is the keyword, right Luthor? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi ivan!! Yah okay, Oleg *did* say BoB AI will not see through clouds and darkness. We shall see. That is the most important cfs advance yet to be made. As we have seen since the decline of combat flight sims from success in the 80s and 90s, ever increasing rivet "detail" has failed to keep the majority of serious customers attached to playing their sims.

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 10:35 AM
I can assure you Luthor that BOB is not about rivets and eye candy... even that eye candy is the part of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Uther
05-15-2007, 10:36 AM
I bet Oleg cannot wait to start posting BoB/SoW updates here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
5 pages of argument about rivets!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ploughman
05-15-2007, 10:39 AM
...or five pages of interest about rivets, which I'm sure he's just fine with.

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 10:39 AM
LOL, I hear you Uther. I think Oleg grew pretty thick skin over the years... i mean he gets upset sometimes over the forums... but not as much as you would think http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I have to admit that he recieved more harsh comments over at russian forums then here. At least that is the impression i get.

Scen
05-15-2007, 10:43 AM
This thread illustrates the reason why most developers are making dumbed down console flying type games because it's impossible to satisfy the hard core crowd.

For those that are complaining about rivets you need to relax and worry about other aspects of the sim.

Bottom line is we all what top quality in terms of the skins and models FM etc etc...

But I would like to see the sim actually run at a decent FPS at the time of release. There will be compromise period.

LStarosta
05-15-2007, 10:44 AM
I don't think the rivets are as visible as they should be. I think Oleg should highlight them more to bring them out a little bit.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

Yes, really- unless the parts circled in yellow are glued on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are more than two sizes of rivets, and although i will be the first to agree that a wing uses more rivets than perhaps some other areas, the point is well made- those rivets are very emphasised. I have never seen a Spit in real life, but I've been on B-17s and B-24s, as well as been to numerous museums where I am standing as close to P-51s and P-47s as I am to my monitir, and I also studied aero in University...and those rivets look very pronounced to me. I've bucked a few rivets into skins, although I do not pretend to be the Rivetting King, I've done it. The rivets look more like stitch work in fabric to me

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/yesreallycopy.jpg


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd expect that little display from many here on the forum, but not you.

Picking out a tiny bit of a picture to prove a point is unfair. Glossing over the rest of the picture that shows well defined and very visible riveting and screws to prove a point is beneath you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What exactly are you so mad about? Your pic shows perfectly the effects of many types of attachment. I pointed ou that some rivets don't jump out at you, using your own pic- but you're mad at me because of it? One fourth of the pic is hardly a 'tiny bit'!

I didn't get mad at you when you used a completely different aircraft to illustrate your point- which is a tad unfair, yes? But I didn't cry foul...

You're taking my use of yor challenging "Really?" comment to illustrate the other side of the coin, and trying to paint me with the bad guy brush

Why? Because I say that the rivets in that isolated pic look too exaggerated to me? I didn't get bent out of shape when you challenging the opinion of mine with your "Really?" reply

I said the effect looks more like fabric stitching to me. And it does. It's as if the rivet heads stick up 3/8ths of an inch

As Oleg himself pointed out, that pic isn't only not the final effect we'll see, it's also only a part of the effect

I really can't see how my pic upsets you so much

LEXX_Luthor
05-15-2007, 11:10 AM
JG52:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">5 pages of argument about rivets!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>PloughPerson:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...or five pages of interest about rivets, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Re-count. Six rivet pages.

When we count all the rivets, the rivet pages remain to be tallied.

ploughman
05-15-2007, 11:27 AM
You know, I think the rivet thing's really diverted us from the real issue here.

Is this Wonder Woman's 109?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Bf-109E-3_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 11:27 AM
That's trivialising things a tad, though. We are talking about a graphical effect in a game

If this much effort is being spent on things such as the graphic representation of rivets, then obviously displaying a 'proper' effect is the developer's goal

Agreed?

So how can discussion about the graphical effects such as this, be a minor thing? Obviously Oleg and Company spent some time considering it. Or should we tell them that it's a waste of time, and a minor issue to get into a discussion about?

I think not. I also think they may have discussed their effects and graphical representations once or twice, and for more than a couple minutes. But when we discuss it, it's petty and meaningless? Why? Because somebody says so online? Well you all owe me a hundred bucks each. I say so, so pay up!

Freelancer-1
05-15-2007, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

What exactly are you so mad about?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not mad...

Disappointed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Kurfurst__
05-15-2007, 12:16 PM
Finally something new, quality like! I was rather disappointed with the detail of the sceenshots so far, which appeared like to be the same models as in Il-2 (perhaps they were..?)

But these new ones are simply show amazing detail work... Is there any information wheter dynamic damage will be present?

Under dynamic damage model I mean dynamic occurance of damage and panels being blow off exactly at the place where the aircraft is hit instead of pre-set damage textures. It can be easily done by applying rifle caliber, cannon shell hole transparent textures dynamically at the place of hit above the normal textures, which would then in effect reveal the structure under the 'torn off' (=transparat) surface panels.

It would be a great improvement in the visualisation of damage, and before anyone starts talking about 'FPS hit' and the need of ultra high powered machines, it was already done this way in B-17FF 2., which pre-dated the original Il-2 Sturmovik..

Oleg, can we get some info on this? TIA!

BTW, if any need for documents you may not have about Bf 109E... if that's possible at all.. please tell. See my site below.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:

What exactly are you so mad about?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not mad...

Disappointed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be joking

T_O_A_D
05-15-2007, 12:36 PM
Detailed Rivets, smooth less obvious rivets, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

I bet you still buy it once released. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

slipBall
05-15-2007, 12:40 PM
ooops there goes another rivet! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif



http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/PCG171.jpg

HuninMunin
05-15-2007, 12:42 PM
Those trees look more real then the one I spend the day planting in my yard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chivas
05-15-2007, 12:49 PM
The rivets look good to me, and I spent alot of time working on military aircraft in the 60's and 70's. To say the rivets look ghastly is in incredible insult. I guess this kind of detail will effect the skinners in the crowd but 90% of combat flight simmers won't even notice. They won't be working with the ground crew taking off panels and servicing the inards of the aircraft.

You'd have to be with 10 ft of the aircraft to notice that kind of detail. The only time it would be noticable is looking out the cockpit at your own wing.

I suppose it could be an immersion killer for a couple of combat flight simmers when the rivets don't suit their version of aircraft rigging.

As the developer says he has up close and personal pictures of these aircraft skins and a group of very good graphic artists to recreate them. I'm sure the final product will be as accurate as possible. The skinners that are offended can make their own skins toning down or increasing the rivets visual effect.

This is just another fine example of a "Tempest in a Teapot"

~Salute~
Chivas

slipBall
05-15-2007, 01:10 PM
The 109 dos'nt need any stinking rivets....less of a target that way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/PCG171-2.jpg

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 01:12 PM
Those rivets on the wings simply did not look even close to the way the rivets looked on the RAF Museum's Spit I, Chivas. The rivets caused a crease in the skinning, not discrete little bumps. That illustration looked so far off I had to comment. I don't know which aircraft you worked on, but even F-4 Phantoms had those creases in their skinning---not neat little lines of bumps.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Those rivets on the wings simply did not look even close to the way the rivets looked on the RAF Museum's Spit I, Chivas. The rivets caused a crease in the skinning, not discrete little bumps. That illustration looked so far off I had to comment. I don't know which aircraft you worked on, but even F-4 Phantoms had those creases in their skinning---not neat little lines of bumps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree

But Oleg pointed out that these were leaked shots of part of the effect for rivets that will be shown

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 02:07 PM
I hope that they are very much not even close to the final product, ace---yoicks.

Jaws2002
05-15-2007, 02:14 PM
Damn. Now we have "rivet whiners". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Like you couldn't turn that skin inside out in few days if you really wanted. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyway. Thx Mr. Maddox for stoping by.



Let's pop some rivets now if we are at it. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/PCG171-4.jpg

EiZ0N
05-15-2007, 02:15 PM
God, who cares if the rivets are *slightly* too visible?

This is a game, it doesn't have to be 100% historically accurate in every single way shape and form.

Chivas
05-15-2007, 02:23 PM
Lit...your drawing way to much of an conclusion from that screenshot. The view is from directly above the wing. From this view the crease would not be visible. With a horizonal view of the same wing the crease would become much more evident taking some of the effect away from the rivet. From the top view you cannot conclude how much the rivet is above or below the plane or the depth of the crease between the panels.

FliegerAas
05-15-2007, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillyTheKid_22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...0&stc=1&d=1161929509 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40970&stc=1&d=1161929509)
Girls in garters with guns? And I was complaining that Oleg didn't give us enough (place your favorite whine here).
Does she come with BoB or is she part of an expansion pack? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I just found it!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif and http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

www.conceptart.org/? (http://www.conceptart.org/?)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...2&stc=1&d=1172907284 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102082&stc=1&d=1172907284)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...5&stc=1&d=1172907396 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102085&stc=1&d=1172907396)



[url]http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102081&stc=1&d=1172907267[/urul]



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...3&stc=1&d=1172907303 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102083&stc=1&d=1172907303)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...4&stc=1&d=1172907369 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=102084&stc=1&d=1172907369)



http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachm...9&stc=1&d=1175758795 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=118159&stc=1&d=1175758795)



WoW!! Great NICE!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please give me a link to the thread on conceptart.org, I'm unable to find it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 02:27 PM
EiZON-

That's true, but the topic here is a graphical effect. Secifically how the rivets are displayed, but many people here are missing the point. It's not just about "rivets", it's about how the skins will look overall. Panel lines, access doors, and yes, rivets make that overall effect up. Rivets is part of it. This isn't about "counting rivets"

Who cares if a panel line is 10mm off? Or if that baggage hatch is 10mm too small on the right, or if the wing rivets are too prominent?

Well, *nobody* if all those elements look correct overall in the final product. If they don't, or pics of what seems to indicate that they won't are shown, then why is it wrong to discuss it?

Sometimes it's as if the community decides that a discussion they don't like is "needless", and the community also loves to trivialise things that they don't think is a big deal, because it's easy to say "well big deal, stop talking about it"

Well that's great, and over all, this isn't a big deal. But then again, this is the most info we have gotten in a while, and a discussion concerning part of that has come around

Why should we stop if that's what we want to talk about?

Seems pretty much in context to me. So some people think it's stupid. Well, good for them! They don't have to talk about it, easy-peasy. If the topic doesn't hold your interest, don't participate in the discussion. Simple.

If you read the various replies here, it is pretty obvious that the graphical representation of such a small thing as rivets looks "correct" or "incorrect" to a lot of people. This should illustrate how some people focus on different things- like when you see, for sure, the resemblence of a famous person in somebody walking down the street, and all your friends say "No way, that doesn't look a thing like her", but you are sure she does

The way the art is made for the sim is the reason we're talking about this- to some people, that's the right way to do it. For each element of each plane, thre will be a graphical interpretation of these elements, and this is an example of how they are making their approach to visually representing

Doesn't that somehow matter?

staticline1
05-15-2007, 02:39 PM
Anyone else see the humor in this thread? 7 pages of rivet whines and the sim isn't even out yet. Forget the FM/DM those rivets are porked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 02:40 PM
Pooh! The rivets would be in a trench, not in a little **** in an otherwise smooth skin. The effect is naff to the Nth degree, and I sure hope it gets rejected.

Obi_Kwiet
05-15-2007, 02:42 PM
It's ONE pre-alpha screen from ONE angle on ONE plane. It's not even in the engine. Don't whine until you see more.

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 02:43 PM
Well, if the finished product were released with phonified rivets, like those, it would be just as pathetic as the Bf 109s in IL-2 which still have big holes in their fuselage bottoms (fer what reason?)!

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 02:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by staticline1:
Anyone else see the humor in this thread? 7 pages of rivet whines and the sim isn't even out yet. Forget the FM/DM those rivets are porked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

? Do you even know what's being discussed? I can't wait until you have an opinion on something on the sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to offer a viewpoint and stick to it, then I don;t want to hear any whines about anything coming from your quarter. It's quite easy to spectate, and quite another to have an opinion and share it, then defend it. But like I say, it will be fun to chime in when or if you ever decide to grace us with your comments on anything

Seriously, what's this forum for, if not discussing aspects of a simulation? You seem to regard it as a place where you can prove how much better you are than other people. What is a topic you approve of?

EFG_beber
05-15-2007, 02:53 PM
A few pics.
http://h.ds.free.fr/photos/2006/ferte/IMG_6483.jpg
http://h.ds.free.fr/photos/2006/ferte/IMG_7455.jpg

and more here.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9801074354/p/1

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by staticline1:
Anyone else see the humor in this thread? 7 pages of rivet whines and the sim isn't even out yet. Forget the FM/DM those rivets are porked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

? Do you even know what's being discussed? I can't wait until you have an opinion on something on the sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know?

This is a leaked screenshot of a bumpmapping-test on a modell of a Spitfire from within the modelling-tool with a direct spotlight at low angles to show the effect. It's not the Holy Grail, nor anywhere close to what it will look like in any version of the game.
This whole discussion IS ridiculous and it has nothing to do with an opinion of anything in the sim, as this sim does not even exist yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 02:55 PM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">hey guys?


The pics shown are NOT the final rivet effects that will be in the sim. They are in-process pics of PART of the effect</span>

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 02:57 PM
After reading all this, I can REALLY very well understand now, why Oleg didn't post anything official yet, especially here and why he will only post something, if it is rock-solid.

This is a hysteria going on here.

WWSpinDry
05-15-2007, 02:58 PM
Just another typical day at the Zoo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by staticline1:
Anyone else see the humor in this thread? 7 pages of rivet whines and the sim isn't even out yet. Forget the FM/DM those rivets are porked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

? Do you even know what's being discussed? I can't wait until you have an opinion on something on the sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know?

This is a leaked screenshot of a bumpmapping-test on a modell of a Spitfire from within the modelling-tool with a direct spotlight at low angles to show the effect. It's not the Holy Grail, nor anywhere close to what it will look like in any version of the game.
This whole thing IS ridiculous and it has nothing to do with anything in the sim, as this sim does not even exist yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, as matter of fact I do flippin know, Cap'n

That's why I've been saying, ever since it was pointed out, that this ISN'T what we will see

Maybe you could READ my posts next time, since you have decided to join on the "Let's set Chris Straight" crew

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 02:59 PM
No. It is commentary.

Enthor1
05-15-2007, 03:10 PM
Wow, 7 pages on rivets!

Well thanks Faustnik, see what ya get for tossing a banana into the monkey house?

Great pics BTW, thanks for posting them.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 03:23 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

teh monkeys!

ten pages of whining about a Spit IX:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3631056855

twelve pages of whines about prop pitch:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9431063655

twenty pages of whines about campaigns:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5321030234

seventeen pages about whines concerning OS:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7301076155

And that's just page 1! Whin00rz FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

get serious! everyone wants to talk about something, that's what the forums are for! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Some people here need to stop trying to tell other folks what they can and can't talk about http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 03:26 PM
Well said.

Chivas
05-15-2007, 03:27 PM
Its amazing how a conclusion can be drawn from so little information. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif I'm sure I seen some evidence of mass distruction in that screenshot.

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 03:30 PM
well, to be perfectly fair, when all you have is an isolated screenshot, and you're hungry for info, you draw the conclusions that you can from the screenshot

Oleg posted, and set the record straight. Evryone is at least a little more informed now, from this

leitmotiv
05-15-2007, 03:37 PM
I'll be tickled pink if I am proved completely wrong by the final product!

staticline1
05-15-2007, 03:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by staticline1:
Anyone else see the humor in this thread? 7 pages of rivet whines and the sim isn't even out yet. Forget the FM/DM those rivets are porked! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

? Do you even know what's being discussed? I can't wait until you have an opinion on something on the sim! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

If you don't have the intestinal fortitude to offer a viewpoint and stick to it, then I don;t want to hear any whines about anything coming from your quarter. It's quite easy to spectate, and quite another to have an opinion and share it, then defend it. But like I say, it will be fun to chime in when or if you ever decide to grace us with your comments on anything

Seriously, what's this forum for, if not discussing aspects of a simulation? You seem to regard it as a place where you can prove how much better you are than other people. What is a topic you approve of? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

An opinion that may differ than yours just so you can attack? I never made any mention that I was better than anyone else, learn to have a sense of humor and laugh at yourself once in a while. sheesh.

faustnik
05-15-2007, 03:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enthor1:
Wow, 7 pages on rivets!

Well thanks Faustnik, see what ya get for tossing a banana into the monkey house? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what can you do?

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Jack.jpg


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Mispunt
05-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Great fun this. I am willing to wager a few things from the screenshots (maybe this has already been done but I don't feel up to the task of plowing through 7 pages of argumentation).
The first and fourth shots ARE done in a viewer using the graphics engine, number two and three are in a modeling package.
The fact that they are done in a viewer capable of pixel shading means this IS or WAS comparable to what it looks/looked like in the game at the time of making this screenshot and if not finished at the time it's still an indication of where the art is going.
Viewers like this are a fast way of checking your model in the game without actually running the full game and all the bugs that come with it during development. (is it safe to do a "getLatest" anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

This is of course a _single_ Spit skin in progress. It may end up to be the worst, the best, the cleanest or even the dirtiest skin in the game. But no doubt a work in progress. However the texturing style is clear on this and I do not see how this is going to change dramatically unless they change their art direction. Which I doubt since it perfectly retains the feel of the IL2 franchise.
Anyway, it's nice to see normal mapping on the planes and I can only hope that the lack of specular shading is only because the shots are work in progress.
If you look closely you can spot the paint already chipped off around the cap on the top of the nose and the panel line in front of it. The bare metal should get a different highlight than the paint, proper specular shading should take care of that.
(While I'm at it, I also hope they will have self shadowing and environment relfection maps ((like Lomac))
At the end of the day however this is all purely speculation. Still fun though.


Mispunt

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by staticline1:


An opinion that may differ than yours just so you can attack? I never made any mention that I was better than anyone else, learn to have a sense of humor and laugh at yourself once in a while. sheesh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Attack? Heavens no . I will just mention that whatever you are talking about is ridiculous and pointless, and try to make you a subject of humor, so that you may learn to laugh at yourself once in a while. Sheesh! Don't get so hysterical

Seems to be OK for you to do this same thing- unless this is one of those "do as I say, not as I do" deals http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mispunt:
The fact that they are done in a viewer capable of pixel shading means this IS or WAS comparable to what it looks/looked like in the game at the time of making this screenshot and if not finished at the time it's still an indication of where the art is going.

Mispunt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

careful! This is dangerously close to a point I've made. You'll be asked to stop talking about it by those that know better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

ploughman
05-15-2007, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mispunt:
Great fun this. I am willing to wager a few things from the screenshots (maybe this has already been done but I don't feel up to the task of plowing through 7 pages of argumentation).
The first and fourth shots ARE done in a viewer using the graphics engine, number two and three are in a modeling package.
The fact that they are done in a viewer capable of pixel shading means this IS or WAS comparable to what it looks/looked like in the game at the time of making this screenshot and if not finished at the time it's still an indication of where the art is going.
Viewers like this are a fast way of checking your model in the game without actually running the full game and all the bugs that come with it during development. (is it safe to do a "getLatest" anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

This is of course a _single_ Spit skin in progress. It may end up to be the worst, the best, the cleanest or even the dirtiest skin in the game. But no doubt a work in progress. However the texturing style is clear on this and I do not see how this is going to change dramatically unless they change their art direction. Which I doubt since it perfectly retains the feel of the IL2 franchise.
Anyway, it's nice to see normal mapping on the planes and I can only hope that the lack of specular shading is only because the shots are work in progress.
If you look closely you can spot the paint already chipped off around the cap on the top of the nose and the panel line in front of it. The bare metal should get a different highlight than the paint, proper specular shading should take care of that.
(While I'm at it, I also hope they will have self shadowing and environment relfection maps ((like Lomac))
At the end of the day however this is all purely speculation. Still fun though.


Mispunt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've heard that the whole skinning thing will be layered? There's the whole panel and rivets thing, the paint job, pehaps a layer for decals, another layer that will show actual ageing of everything, exhaust/oil/gun staining, a layer (maybe) for repairs if you make it back to base with a shot up AC, and maybe some that I've never heard of. Pretty neat, a dynamic skin! Lord knows where this shot falls into it. Oleg mentioned it'd be adjustable in game, maybe its the rivets and panels layer turned 'up' under the paint scheme turned 'down.'

crazyivan1970
05-15-2007, 04:44 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 04:46 PM
And that's a great point too Ploughman-

where does it fit?

And to read Oleg's comments, you can get "no this isn't the correct appearance because it's only part of the whole" implied

Precisely why it's so interesting- those that say that pic looks 'correct' and this is how it should look might be disappointed by that

It might also be that this is without lighting elements as well

But still, this is a step in the process- it must be taken as an indication as to where to final product will end up

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 04:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some people that think flight simming is a crazy stupid pointless waste of time, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And shooting fake bullets? At fake people?? Oh goodness no, it is a violent, hurtful, and horrid corruption of morals and decency to show children or even adults that! Good gracious !! No no no, the '40s never happened, that's the ticket, let's move on already

JG52Uther
05-15-2007, 05:03 PM
This thread is riveting!
Lets see if we can get it up to another 20+ page epic.

slipBall
05-15-2007, 05:07 PM
I wish that I could see Oleg's face when he returns to this thread.....shake his head and then ............lol no doubt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif...then again he may cry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2007, 05:09 PM
Yes, he would be much happier if nobody cared about what he does http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Let's all type "meh, do whatever" from now on when he posts, or when news of his products arrive. Then Oleg=teh happyman http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
05-15-2007, 05:10 PM
I see your point http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

JG52Uther
05-15-2007, 05:14 PM
Oh I think he cares.He probably just feels a little older everytime he looks at the forum.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/MeandOleg.jpg

ploughman
05-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Oh my. Oleg really needs to get to the coast.

Copperhead310th
05-15-2007, 05:23 PM
hmmmmmm i can book a flight on delta for 2600 & some change to Moscow. Whats the weather like in September? Cold as all get out? Anyone know of a good/CHEAP hotel near Olegs studio? and would they even just let me pop in for a visit?
I'm gettin out of the US for a week this year even if it kills me. So far i'm looking at
Russia
Eastern Europe
China/ Asia
or Costa Rica
Anywhere i can get the most bang for my US Doller. but just wondering if i actually went to moscow could i get innto see the old Mad Ox?

JG52Uther
05-15-2007, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Oh my. Oleg really needs to get to the coast. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well thats what a weekend sampling the delights of Birmingham and the NEC will do to you! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Makabi-
05-15-2007, 05:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
I don't think that this is already bumpmapping. It looks more like the oldest trick in the skinner's manual for faking a depth effect - a "dark" layer and a slightly offset "bright" layer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can assure you that is bump mapping. I've been playing PC games for a dozen years so far, including first-person shooters, and after seeing the bump mapping in many recent shooters I can say without a doubt that that is not the skinner "faking" it. compare the lighting on the wingroot and over the engine to this picture from the game DOOM III

http://www.nextdimension.org/other/doom3/doomguy.jpg

not the best comparison, but I had trouble finding a good pic on google. you see the way the shine on his shotgun and armour makes them look a bit like plastic? that's precisely what I see on the Spitfire.

slappedsilly
05-15-2007, 05:50 PM
I think Olegs response should be, if you don't like it write your own sim! I must be blissfully ignorant, I couldn't care less about the rivets. The sim we have now is by far the best out there and I sure SoW will be the same. I'm just happy being an addict, not a picky addict. Try it, its got to be much easier than worrying about rivets LoL!

About the updates, I'll believes it when I sees it.

Freelancer-1
05-15-2007, 06:21 PM
Bump mapping? Meh...old news...

Normal mapping is the real deal folk's.

Don't be fooled by cheap imitations http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

(That should get a couple more pages http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

Makabi-
05-15-2007, 06:39 PM
heh, true enough, I don't think the old bump mapping is even used anymore, although tbh I fail to see the aesthetic differences (if any) between normal mapping and bump mapping.

Badsight-
05-15-2007, 11:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbeville-Boy:
lets not chase oleg away argumenting over rivets </div></BLOCKQUOTE>isnt it crazy

cid , you really got to step away from the forum & play the game a little more

Capt.LoneRanger
05-15-2007, 11:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Makabi-:
heh, true enough, I don't think the old bump mapping is even used anymore, although tbh I fail to see the aesthetic differences (if any) between normal mapping and bump mapping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

You're kidding right?

The difference is, that with normal mapping, the sun always comes from this direction, as the reflections and shadows are printed static on the texture.
Bumpmapping creates shadows and lighting effects depending on the direction of where the light comes from and thereby is dynamic.

Your choice.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
05-16-2007, 12:00 AM
http://www.spiralgraphics.biz/images_g25/three_versions.jpg

Very basic picture of the difference of with (left) and without (right) bumpmapping.

This is an ingame shot of bumpmapping in action. The texture is pure 2D.
http://farcry.gry-online.pl/pics/offset.jpg

major_setback
05-16-2007, 03:13 AM
Bump mapping makes a flat texture look 3D. This is a normal skin with bump mapping used to make the texture look a if it's bulged (this is NOT from SoW:BoB):

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Lanc1.jpg
Pictures are stolen from the Military Meshes site http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif(register for free).
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/lanc4.jpg

THIS is how the bumped texture looks, as you can see it doesn't look too complex, I suppose it just has to be done right to look good (credit to the author of the Lanc render for the pictures).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/lancbump.jpg

The light reflects differently from different parts of the flat texture, making it look curved.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-16-2007, 03:17 AM
Looks great http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mbfRoy
05-16-2007, 03:32 AM
Those renders look amazing!

The main difference between bumpmapping and normal mapping is that in the latter you need a higher res mesh --read: rivets, panels and bumps already modelled in it-- in order to extract the normal surfaces and apply them to a less detailed model. Bumpmapping on the other hand will just take a greyscale picture and work from there, as shown in those Lancaster shots

major_setback
05-16-2007, 03:52 AM
Another riveting thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif. Here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/746...451047355#4451047355 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7461069255?r=4451047355#4451047355)

Makabi-
05-16-2007, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
This is an ingame shot of bumpmapping in action. The texture is pure 2D.
http://farcry.gry-online.pl/pics/offset.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually, that's a parallax map, which is basically a heightmapped texture that immitates a model without adding extra polygons, a bump/normal map just give the illusion of such a thing.

Mispunt
05-16-2007, 05:14 AM
Actually the main difference between a bump and a normal map is in how the directional ofset information is stored. A bumpmap is a greyscale map where white pixels are considered higher than black pixels. The per pixel surface direction offset (or the angle of a pixel) is there for determined by itself _and_ it's neigbours.
A Normal map simply uses a color to determine it's direction, nice and elegant but nearly impossible to paint by hand, as opposed to a bumpmap which is.
However skinners can still paint all their bumpy detail in black and white and then convert it in Photoshop to a normal map. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Makabi-:
heh, true enough, I don't think the old bump mapping is even used anymore, although tbh I fail to see the aesthetic differences (if any) between normal mapping and bump mapping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

You're kidding right?

The difference is, that with normal mapping, the sun always comes from this direction, as the reflections and shadows are printed static on the texture.
Bumpmapping creates shadows and lighting effects depending on the direction of where the light comes from and thereby is dynamic.

Your choice.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Normal mapping


In 3D computer graphics, normal mapping is an application of the technique known as bump mapping. Normal mapping is sometimes referred to as "Dot3 bump mapping". While bump mapping perturbs the existing normal (the way the surface is facing) of a model, normal mapping replaces the normal entirely. Like bump mapping, it is used to add details to shading without using more polygons. But where a bump map is usually calculated based on a single-channel (interpreted as grayscale) image, the source for the normals in normal mapping is usually a multichannel image (that is, channels for "red", "green" and "blue" as opposed to just a single color) derived from a set of more detailed versions of the objects.

Normal mapping is usually found in two varieties: object-space and tangent-space normal mapping. They differ in coordinate systems in which the normals are measured and stored.

One of the most interesting uses of this technique is to greatly enhance the appearance of a low poly model exploiting a normal map coming from a high resolution model. While this idea of taking geometric details from a high resolution model had been introduced in "Fitting Smooth Surfaces to Dense Polygon Meshes" by Krishnamurthy and Levoy, Proc. SIGGRAPH 1996, where this approach was used for creating displacement maps over nurbs, its application to more common triangle meshes came later. In 1998 two papers were presented with the idea of transferring details as normal maps from high to low poly meshes: "Appearance Preserving Simplification", by Cohen et al. SIGGRAPH 1998, and "A general method for recovering attribute values on simplified meshes" by Cignoni et al. IEEE Visualization '98. The former presented a particular constrained simplification algorithm that during the simplification process tracks how the lost details should be mapped over the simplified mesh. The latter presented a simpler approach that decouples the high and low polygonal mesh and allows the recreation of the lost details in a way that is not dependent on how the low model was created. This latter approach (with some minor variations) is still the one used by most of the currently available tools.



How it works

To calculate the Lambertian (diffuse) lighting of a surface, the unit vector from the shading point to the light source is dotted with the unit vector normal to that surface, and the result is the intensity of the light on that surface. Many other lighting models also involve some sort of dot product with the normal vector. Imagine a polygonal model of a sphere - you can only approximate the shape of the surface. By using an RGB bitmap textured across the model, more detailed normal vector information can be encoded. Each color channel in the bitmap (red, green and blue) corresponds to a spatial dimension (X, Y and Z). These spatial dimensions are relative to a constant coordinate system for object-space normal maps, or to a smoothly varying coordinate system (based on the derivatives of position with respect to texture coordinates) in the case of tangent-space normal maps. This adds much more detail to the surface of a model, especially in conjunction with advanced lighting techniques.

In the most common implementation of normalmaps, used by Valve's Source engine and implemented in hardware in nVidia cards, the red channel should be the relief of the material when lit from the right, the green channel should be the relief of the material when lit from below, and the blue channel should be the relief of the material when lit from the front(practically, full except on the "slopes"); or, to put it another way, the XYZ coordinates of the face normals are placed in the RGB values of the normal map. If a material is classified as being reflective, the albedo is usually encoded in the alpha channel if one exists.



Normal mapping in videogames

Interactive normal map rendering was originally only possible on PixelFlow, a parallel graphics machine built at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. It was later possible to perform normal mapping on high-end SGI workstations using multi-pass rendering and frame buffer operations or on low end PC hardware with some tricks using paletted textures. However, with the advent of shaders in home PCs and gaming consoles, normal mapping became widely used in videogames starting in 2004. Normal mapping's popularity for real-time rendering is due to its good quality to processing requirements ratio versus other methods of producing similar effects. Much of this efficiency is made possible by distance-indexed detail scaling, a technique which selectively decreases the detail of the normal map of a given texture (cf. mipmapping), meaning that more distant surfaces require less complex lighting simulation.

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-16-2007, 07:02 AM
9 pages in 2 days? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Looks like we are in desperate need of a Sow:BoB forum.

IBTL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Bearcat99
05-16-2007, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
this kind of public input from game developers is still very rare </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. it is very rare here too of late... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif but none the less absolutely great to see!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hi Oleg...

Oleg.... will skins in BoB have reflection mapping in them... ?

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Oleg.... will skins in BoB have reflection mapping in them... ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question.

I'd love to see the alpha channel opened up for skinners.

MMMMM...

Bare metal with real time reflections http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Bigha_86
05-16-2007, 08:21 AM
My God!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif C'm on guys, let's rubber the 3d airplanes from the Military Meshes site and use them for BoB. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif or a special Il2 last edition... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Bearcat99
05-16-2007, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
I bet Oleg cannot wait to start posting BoB/SoW updates here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
5 pages of argument about rivets!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Incredible isnt it... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

"O please please give your loyal fans some up dates"

^^^^^^NEWS FLASH!!!^^^^LEAKED PICTURES OF SPITFIRE MODEL AND GRASS LEAKED TO UBI GD FORUM^^^^^^^^IMMEDIATE DEBATE ENSUES!!!^^^^^^^

"Ahhhh those rivets are over modelled..."

"Are not!!"

"Are too!!!"

"Are not!!"

"Are too!!!"

"It isn't possible to compare screenshot to this photo. First because the resolution of the photo simply don't show details we need to see...
I don't think that screws, etc overdone. How they looks very depending of the light angle hit to the surface. Also it is tunable in the engine. They are bumpmapping feature. Don't worry, everything in final will looks like a cinema"

"ennnhhhh yeah well.... My crystal ball tells me that the AI will still kick my arse.... "

"Ohh you guys need to calm down..."

"There are deeper more menaingfull issues a stake here... "

"Are too"

"All I'm sayin is..."

"Im waiting for the sim... "

"I'm going for coffee.."

"Ilya next time YOU go in there...!!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



So does this kinda sorta sum up this thread...? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

crazyivan1970
05-16-2007, 09:40 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-16-2007, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbeville-Boy:
lets not chase oleg away argumenting over rivets </div></BLOCKQUOTE>isnt it crazy

cid , you really got to step away from the forum & play the game a little more </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another member of the thought police! Upset because I post, now? That's what the forums are for, and this is 100% on topic


hey Badsight, look. I know it's a lot to ask of you, but just this once, can you actually read my replies and try to understand what I post before you decide you're the Big Bad Internet Judge?

Thanks a million

crazyivan1970
05-16-2007, 09:51 AM
Sid, dont get upset. This is the way it works... you know that. You said something and now you have to defend your position. Personally, i understand what you are trying to say... with one exception... Olegs reply kinda addresses it, even tho...it is a valid concern on your part.

XyZspineZyX
05-16-2007, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I know, Ivan

But with all the things I have posted in this thread, SOMEbody could take note on how many times I've posted "But Oleg mentioned this isn't the final effect". You'd think I was here shouting "Rivets is wrong how can you make a game with bad rivets??" to read the replies

crazyivan1970
05-16-2007, 10:04 AM
Oh come one bud... who on this forums reads every word...except TAGERT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jaws2002
05-16-2007, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Oleg.... will skins in BoB have reflection mapping in them... ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question.

I'd love to see the alpha channel opened up for skinners.

MMMMM...

Bare metal with real time reflections http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


In that respect i think i just saw one of if not the most natural looking metal on a WW2 plane. The new P-51 Mustang in Target Tobruk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
As dull as the game looks the new pony is absolutely stunning.Beautiful reflection mapping. Not the perfectly shiny thing you got used to see in FSX. Real looking metal with scratches, dirt, oil stains, but with a perrfectly done metal effect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I'm away from my gaming computer right now and i don't have nothing to show you, but you can download it and have a look for yourself. (it's free).Posting a screenshot will not make justice for such a great job, and the little film i recorded in the game is home and is 200MB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Btw Bearcat. It also comes with a stunning "Red Tail" skin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

http://www.evil-turkey.de/TW/screenshots/tt_p51d_r04.jpg

csThor
05-16-2007, 11:10 AM
Indeed - Ebola (the prime skinner for TT) is certainly a master of his trade. But as he's doing it for a living, too, I don't feel too inadequate. Just a little http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

major_setback
05-16-2007, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Oleg.... will skins in BoB have reflection mapping in them... ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question.

I'd love to see the alpha channel opened up for skinners.

MMMMM...

Bare metal with real time reflections http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


In that respect i think i just saw one of if not the most natural looking metal on a WW2 plane. The new P-51 Mustang in Target Tobruk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
As dull as the game looks the new pony is absolutely stunning.Beautiful reflection mapping. Not the perfectly shiny thing you got used to see in FSX. Real looking metal with scratches, dirt, oil stains, but with a perrfectly done metal effect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I'm away from my gaming computer right now and i don't have nothing to show you, but you can download it and have a look for yourself. (it's free).Posting a screenshot will not make justice for such a great job, and the little film i recorded in the game is home and is 200MB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Btw Bearcat. It also comes with a stunning "Red Tail" skin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

http://www.evil-turkey.de/TW/screenshots/tt_p51d_r04.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Sorry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif I can't see that that looks very good. I much prefer the Battle over Europe skins for FB. Look at those relective surfaces! The shot is cropped but otherwise unedited. (my screenshot).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Fbscr040925a80cut_jpg.jpg

Agamemnon22
05-16-2007, 04:58 PM
I'm with setback.. where's the specular in that TT shot? I also think the panel lines are WAY exaggerated.

I should hope that in BoB reflective materials will actually be real-time reflective and the reflections won't have to be baked in.

Jaws2002
05-16-2007, 05:51 PM
I said in my post that a screenshot can't capture dynamic lighting. You'll have to see a film or see it in game too understand what I mean.

Thor knows what I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That IL-2 skin will look the same no matter where the light comes from but that Target Tobruk pony has reflection maping and you'll see natural reflections on the skin, unlike painted reflections.

When first i found out about that side of the skining in Targetware i tried it on a FW-190 i was toying with just to have an idea what it looks like.

here is a test. Of corse, is not a skin is just dropping panel lines and rivets on top of a full reflective map. It takes an artist to do that kind of work. I'm no artist so... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2HNDMOsJcI

Now, what Ebola did on that pony is absolutely awesome and you can't understand it from a screenshot. and NO. The pony from BOE is no match. Sorry.

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 06:05 PM
NOW THAT"S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT!!!

That 190 test is exactly what I want to have some control over in my skins.

A lot of the skinners here paint their bare metal reflections to look good in a screenshot.

And they do look good... until you see them in the game and the painted on reflections aren't reflecting.

Note: I'm not passing judgment on their skills. This is not because of the skinners lack of talent, but the lack of access to the alpha channel mapping.



Thanks for that little eye opener, Jaws.


Cheers,

mbfRoy
05-16-2007, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I said in my post that a screenshot can't capture dynamic lighting. You'll have to see a film or see it in game too understand what I mean.

Thor knows what I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That IL-2 skin will look the same no matter where the light comes from but that Target Tobruk pony has reflection maping and you'll see natural reflections on the skin, unlike painted reflections.

When first i found out about that side of the skining in Targetware i tried it on a FW-190 i was toying with just to have an idea what it looks like.

here is a test. Of corse, is not a skin is just dropping panel lines and rivets on top of a full reflective map. It takes an artist to do that kind of work. I'm no artist so... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2HNDMOsJcI

Now, what Ebola did on that pony is absolutely awesome and you can't understand it from a screenshot. and NO. The pony from BOE is no match. Sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that looks more like regular environment mapping.

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mbfRoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I said in my post that a screenshot can't capture dynamic lighting. You'll have to see a film or see it in game too understand what I mean.

Thor knows what I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That IL-2 skin will look the same no matter where the light comes from but that Target Tobruk pony has reflection maping and you'll see natural reflections on the skin, unlike painted reflections.

When first i found out about that side of the skining in Targetware i tried it on a FW-190 i was toying with just to have an idea what it looks like.

here is a test. Of corse, is not a skin is just dropping panel lines and rivets on top of a full reflective map. It takes an artist to do that kind of work. I'm no artist so... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2HNDMOsJcI

Now, what Ebola did on that pony is absolutely awesome and you can't understand it from a screenshot. and NO. The pony from BOE is no match. Sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that looks more like regular environment mapping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Environment mapping with a high reflectivity. Something we have no control over in FB.

Same semi gloss reflection layer no matter what you're skinning.

A little too shiny for cammo and a little too dull for metal.

Agamemnon22
05-16-2007, 07:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:

Same semi gloss reflection layer no matter what you're skinning.

A little too shiny for cammo and a little too dull for metal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uhm. that's not actually what we have. We have no reflection or environment mapping of any sort. We have a fixed specular.

Also alpha has exactly nothing to do with reflectivity...

mbfRoy
05-16-2007, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mbfRoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I said in my post that a screenshot can't capture dynamic lighting. You'll have to see a film or see it in game too understand what I mean.

Thor knows what I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That IL-2 skin will look the same no matter where the light comes from but that Target Tobruk pony has reflection maping and you'll see natural reflections on the skin, unlike painted reflections.

When first i found out about that side of the skining in Targetware i tried it on a FW-190 i was toying with just to have an idea what it looks like.

here is a test. Of corse, is not a skin is just dropping panel lines and rivets on top of a full reflective map. It takes an artist to do that kind of work. I'm no artist so... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2HNDMOsJcI

Now, what Ebola did on that pony is absolutely awesome and you can't understand it from a screenshot. and NO. The pony from BOE is no match. Sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that looks more like regular environment mapping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Environment mapping with a high reflectivity. Something we have no control over in FB.

Same semi gloss reflection layer no matter what you're skinning.

A little too shiny for cammo and a little too dull for metal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely. I was not trying to imply that there's such a thing available for the skinners to tinker with, just trying to set the proper terms. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

By the way, FB/PF/1946 does not use any semi gloss reflection layer at all.

Jaws2002
05-16-2007, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
NOW THAT"S WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT!!!



Note: I'm not passing judgment on their skills. This is not because of the skinners lack of talent, but the lack of access to the alpha channel mapping.



</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yoy are absolutely right about that. This is not about the talent of the skinners. In IL-2 we just don't have access to environmental map, so we have to paint static reflections and metal look on the skins.

My appologies. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Here is a link to a tutorial so you can get an idea how is made in Targetware:

http://www.targetware.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=P...le=viewtopic&t=11204 (http://www.targetware.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=11204)

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 08:06 PM
My bad, I was mixing transparency and reflectivity in my addled brain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thanks for the heads up, Agamemnon22 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


The point is, though, that it is well needed in SOW that we have the same access to mapping that Target has. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

mbfRoy
05-16-2007, 08:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
My bad, I was mixing transparency and reflectivity in my addled brain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thanks for the heads up, Agamemnon22 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


The point is, though, that it is well needed in SOW that we have the same access to mapping that Target has. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I'm positive that there will be even more control than that.

Bearcat99
05-16-2007, 08:32 PM
TT is Targetware correct?

I posted a link to that short video in the skinners forum a while back.. I saw it on Simmer's Paintshop... it looks even better there...

Sweet Metal (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/targetware/480-reflection-maps.html)

Yeah thats what I was talking about with the reflection mapping in BoB..

No457_Squog
05-16-2007, 09:44 PM
For the record - 462cid: You have been an absolute legend throughout this thread!

As evidenced on Page 4 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/8931042955/p/4) of this thread, I too am a "rivet whiner" apparently.

I think the flash on the camera is having an effect on the visibility of the rivets in various pictures in this thread.

My only hope now is that the lighting effects in the game will make the rivet layer's opacity fade away when not under direct light.

Will this be implemented in the sim?

...there's no way to know...

Freelancer-1
05-16-2007, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mbfRoy:

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I'm positive that there will be even more control than that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I have faith that it will be so good that this one will seem like a toy.

I remember my daughter saying, "Oh yes daddy, I'll still keep playing the Sims even after Sims2 comes out, cuz it's so good". Well, she never played the Sims again once she got her hands on the Sims2.

This is the memory that comes to mind when I hear everyone in our squad saying, "Of course we'll keep playing IL2 after SOW comes out, cuz it's so good".

I'm hoping we'll be so blown away by SOW that it won't even occur to anyone to continue playing this one.

Am I dreaming here. Maybe, but it's a nice one.

Harh
05-17-2007, 05:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
In that respect i think i just saw one of if not the most natural looking metal on a WW2 plane. The new P-51 Mustang in Target Tobruk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
As dull as the game looks the new pony is absolutely stunning.Beautiful reflection mapping. Not the perfectly shiny thing you got used to see in FSX. Real looking metal with scratches, dirt, oil stains, but with a perrfectly done metal effect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I'm away from my gaming computer right now and i don't have nothing to show you, but you can download it and have a look for yourself. (it's free).Posting a screenshot will not make justice for such a great job, and the little film i recorded in the game is home and is 200MB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Btw Bearcat. It also comes with a stunning "Red Tail" skin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

http://www.evil-turkey.de/TW/screenshots/tt_p51d_r04.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Sorry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif I can't see that that looks very good. I much prefer the Battle over Europe skins for FB. Look at those relective surfaces! The shot is cropped but otherwise unedited. (my screenshot).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Fbscr040925a80cut_jpg.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO metal from Target Tobruk doesn't look good on that picture. Don't know how it looks in the game though, but not here. Texture is nice, but I mean namely the metal reflection. But actually metal in Il2 does't look good either. And that can be seen on this picture: surfaces really lacks reflectivity. I've seen some photo's of P51, P47 and so on and metal there really look shiny and reflective. In Il engine there is no support for reflection mapping and that shine as on the picture cannot replace it.

BTW it is interesting too see this on B29 texture in the game: there reflections are simulated on the texture map.

If the reflection (at least reflection map, not the cubic/raytrace reflection) could be available in SoW it wuld be great. One interesting thing: on the images posted some time ago (some of them are in this thread, but not that one) there was a picture with a cockpit (Spitfire AFAIR). This picture was a different compared to those posted year or so ago. There could be seen that the reflections were added to some metal details. So, for me seems that reflections will be available in the upcoming game, but we'll see.

Skarphol
05-17-2007, 07:03 AM
While we're at rivets..

This picture is from the airshow-thread on this forum, picture posted by EFG_Beber:

http://h.ds.free.fr/photos/2006/ferte/IMG_6483.jpg


Rivets are quite visible under these conditions..

Skarphol

Freelancer-1
05-17-2007, 07:23 AM
Do you have a link to any more of those close up shots, Skarphol?

Great reference photo!

ppontius
05-17-2007, 07:32 AM
made a little vid of TT P51 ingame to show the reflections. It is bad quality but it shows the effect.
download (http://www3.turboshare.de/v/8451654/Film.wmv.html)

Skarphol
05-17-2007, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Do you have a link to any more of those close up shots, Skarphol?

Great reference photo! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is from this thread: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9801074354

Not so many close-ups, but very good pictures! The picture I linked to was on page 3

Skarphol

Jaws2002
05-17-2007, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ppontius:
made a little vid of TT P51 ingame to show the reflections. It is bad quality but it shows the effect.
download (http://www3.turboshare.de/v/8451654/Film.wmv.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There we go. now we are getting somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In game if you look at the belly of the plane you'll see why i was so impresses. The metal look is awesome.
You can't capture that in a screenshot.

Jaws2002
05-17-2007, 08:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bearcat99:
TT is Targetware correct?

I posted a link to that short video in the skinners forum a while back.. I saw it on Simmer's Paintshop... it looks even better there...

Sweet Metal (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/targetware/480-reflection-maps.html)

Yeah thats what I was talking about with the reflection mapping in BoB..[/QUOTE
The in game Mustang looks about 1000 times beter than that poor attempt of mine with the FW-190. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

major_setback
05-21-2007, 05:35 AM
It looks like someone els has been using the same reference as Oleg...

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/wingsofpower/wwiifighters/forum_picts/spit/3.jpg

Bearcat99
05-21-2007, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bearcat99:
TT is Targetware correct?

I posted a link to that short video in the skinners forum a while back.. I saw it on Simmer's Paintshop... it looks even better there...

Sweet Metal (http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/targetware/480-reflection-maps.html)

Yeah thats what I was talking about with the reflection mapping in BoB..[/QUOTE
The in game Mustang looks about 1000 times beter than that poor attempt of mine with the FW-190. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The link from ppontious is dead.. anyone got a live one?

Monty_Thrud
05-21-2007, 11:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skarphol:
While we're at rivets..

This picture is from the airshow-thread on this forum, picture posted by EFG_Beber:

http://h.ds.free.fr/photos/2006/ferte/IMG_6483.jpg


Rivets are quite visible under these conditions..

Skarphol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that settles it then...the rivets are under-modelled in SoW{BoB}.

joe3rd
09-08-2007, 08:56 AM
Remember folks, "we already have the SOW BOB flight models". what is truely impressive though is the level of detail of the truck and the groud/terrain surrounding it. A shame though we shall never actually enjoy it whilst straffing it as the level of detail is way to much for a cpu to map at flight speeds.
The truck and terrain look Great though!

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2007, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joe3rd:
Remember folks, "we already have the SOW BOB flight models". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. How can we, when the new sim engine takes more things into account?

We have the elements of that flight model that this sim engine can handle. Which is not to say that we are flying SoW's flight model right now. That's a common misinterpretation of what Oleg said

...but I am curious as to why you dug up this old thread? I had forgotten all about it

JG4_Greif
09-08-2007, 02:13 PM
I would be happy, if the standard skin of the Spit, would look like on thous pics. First, I won`t see thous rivets if I shoot down the Spit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif and secound, you will be able to make your own skin, so make it better then.

ploughman
09-08-2007, 02:41 PM
Skins in SoW'll be layered and will evovle over the mission apparently. The layer with the paint job won't be the same layer that has rivets, or the layer that has exhaust staining, gun smoke staining, lubricant smears and so on.

flox
09-08-2007, 03:03 PM
Wow, very impressive stuff Ploughman. I don't recall hearing those particular details before. You have to love the attention to detail being put into BoB. Or should I say, the attention to detail we speculate is being put in, what with the lack of new info over the past few months. Can't wait till we actually get some new concrete info.

major_setback
09-08-2007, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flox:
Wow, very impressive stuff Ploughman. I don't recall hearing those particular details before. You have to love the attention to detail being put into BoB. Or should I say, the attention to detail we speculate is being put in, what with the lack of new info over the past few months. Can't wait till we actually get some new concrete info. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's not speculation. Paint jobs on aircraft will be dynamic. Wear and tear will show more (probably as a seperate layer with variable opacity is my guess) as a campaign progresses.
There is an example of this on one of the videos on the bonus DVD.

Anyway. Lets talk some more about rivets. Another interesting picture here, just to show that Oleg knows what he's doing. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/501531120_06ea2ad3ee_b.jpg

RamsteinUSA
09-08-2007, 03:52 PM
CFS2 had rivots on the skins.. and there were/are instructions on the internet how to add rivots to skins...

I am no artist, but that much I know..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flox:
Wow, very impressive stuff Ploughman. I don't recall hearing those particular details before. You have to love the attention to detail being put into BoB. Or should I say, the attention to detail we speculate is being put in, what with the lack of new info over the past few months. Can't wait till we actually get some new concrete info. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Skoshi Tiger
09-08-2007, 07:47 PM
I'm a little disapointed really! They haven't modeled the cloth tape over the mussles of the browning's on the Mk1. Everyone knows it helped out it increasing the Spitfires top speed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

flox
09-09-2007, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:

That's not speculation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, I didn't mean the stuff about dynamic paint jobs or rivets was speculation. Just a general statement about how we all wonder whether various things will be included or modeled in BoB. Anyway good stuff in this thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif