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View Full Version : A total Beginners game... really?



flibberflops
10-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Although I could write a long piece about the merits of Rocksmith... I really also have to question who exactly play tested this game from a beginners point of view??

As a total beginner, I was really looking forward to this game but I have to question how much the total newbies have been over looked??

For example...

I am already acutely aware that finger placement and the ability to be able to stretch four fingers across 4 frets is quite key to playing the guitar. Yeah the game shows you where you fingers should be place but nowhere does it address how the heck you are supposed to do it? Ok, there is no magic solution to being able to stretch your fingers, other than time... however, where are the in game exercises to assist with this? It seems to me that you are thrown straight into song playing and a beginner will naturally shift around the frets using the one finger... surely this is not the way to learn a guitar? I am actually finding I have to try and ignore the urge to try and play a song as best as I can to try and practice some finger discipline... but the game is not helping me with this, in fact in most respects the exact opposite!

Ducks seems like a good practice aid for a beginner... but why have no options? Why force everyone to play the "rush before you run out of time" mode... why not have an endless untimed mode? I would quite like to play on ducks for sometime, but I am getting fed up of the time limited short games and starting all over again, where as an unlimted mode would hold my interest more. Oh yeah, as for the score board, as a beginner I don't give a stuff about the world ranking silly scores... it only goes to show how pathetic my score is. Yes you can switch to the personal scores, but guess what, every time you play it swaps back to world ranking... it honestly really puts you off as a beginner. Did not one player mention this in beta testing????

Technique lessons can also be frustrating. Take for instance the Harmonics lesson. Harmonic is hard, as a beginner it is very hard. So why when you are taken into the practice track, it is a mix of harmonics AND note changes. Why? The lesson is harmonics... so why add in the extra difficulty a note changes?

I could go on (and on) with examples but I hope you get the general idea that I think the beginner has been left somewhat lacking the support needed. Yeah ok, you had to make the game for all levels of experience, but why not just but some extra options in for the total idiot like me?

Just to end, one general moan is I think that the control pad is used far too much in the game. Press start button to begin... I have my hands full of guitar! The arcade games use the guitar to start the game, so why do I have to press X all the time? Do I really have to develop a duct tape controller on guitar mod?

Rocksmith 2... stick me on your play testing list... I'll give you suggestions LOL!

flibberflops
10-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Although I could write a long piece about the merits of Rocksmith... I really also have to question who exactly play tested this game from a beginners point of view??

As a total beginner, I was really looking forward to this game but I have to question how much the total newbies have been over looked??

For example...

I am already acutely aware that finger placement and the ability to be able to stretch four fingers across 4 frets is quite key to playing the guitar. Yeah the game shows you where you fingers should be place but nowhere does it address how the heck you are supposed to do it? Ok, there is no magic solution to being able to stretch your fingers, other than time... however, where are the in game exercises to assist with this? It seems to me that you are thrown straight into song playing and a beginner will naturally shift around the frets using the one finger... surely this is not the way to learn a guitar? I am actually finding I have to try and ignore the urge to try and play a song as best as I can to try and practice some finger discipline... but the game is not helping me with this, in fact in most respects the exact opposite!

Ducks seems like a good practice aid for a beginner... but why have no options? Why force everyone to play the "rush before you run out of time" mode... why not have an endless untimed mode? I would quite like to play on ducks for sometime, but I am getting fed up of the time limited short games and starting all over again, where as an unlimted mode would hold my interest more. Oh yeah, as for the score board, as a beginner I don't give a stuff about the world ranking silly scores... it only goes to show how pathetic my score is. Yes you can switch to the personal scores, but guess what, every time you play it swaps back to world ranking... it honestly really puts you off as a beginner. Did not one player mention this in beta testing????

Technique lessons can also be frustrating. Take for instance the Harmonics lesson. Harmonic is hard, as a beginner it is very hard. So why when you are taken into the practice track, it is a mix of harmonics AND note changes. Why? The lesson is harmonics... so why add in the extra difficulty a note changes?

I could go on (and on) with examples but I hope you get the general idea that I think the beginner has been left somewhat lacking the support needed. Yeah ok, you had to make the game for all levels of experience, but why not just but some extra options in for the total idiot like me?

Just to end, one general moan is I think that the control pad is used far too much in the game. Press start button to begin... I have my hands full of guitar! The arcade games use the guitar to start the game, so why do I have to press X all the time? Do I really have to develop a duct tape controller on guitar mod?

Rocksmith 2... stick me on your play testing list... I'll give you suggestions LOL!

BernieK1974
10-27-2011, 03:09 PM
flibberflops,

If some of the exercises were endless, you would have a whole lot of people complaining about carpatunel(sp?) syndrome. learning guitar is a chore, and a labour of love. It's just as frustrating to learn from a live teacher in person as it is from a game. there are a lot of things such as proper hand position and such left out, but if it was all in there, most players with a small amount of guitar experience would lose interest before the intro was done.

If you want to go far in the game, your single finger fret technique may advance you so far, but I challenge you to complete a whole song 100% in this manner. Have fun with it and don't get too frustrated.

flibberflops
10-27-2011, 03:27 PM
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that an endless mode should be the only option. I was merely suggesting it would be nice to have a endless mode as well as current challenge mode?

I also don't understand extra beginner practice aids couldn't be added as side options (outside of the normal game path)? In this way it would not interrupt the enjoyment experience of the seasoned player.

I just feel a little disheartened, Rocksmith seems a brilliant game and I feel it could also be a powerful tool to bring the guitar to a lot of people - young and old... but as it is, it is just missing some minor extra aids that would greatly assist and encourage the total newbie.

sprusegoose
10-27-2011, 03:54 PM
This might help you.
http://www.morphis.com/guitar_lessons/lesson_4.asp

GimbalLock
10-27-2011, 05:03 PM
Just keep at it, the first parts about learning a guitar are the most frustrating no matter how you choose to learn. Frustration like yours is why most people just quit. Playing a musical insterment is not an easy thing to do. I think this game is going to shock a lot of people who think this is magical going to make them a guitar player.

Deep breath and just keep playing your fingers will fall in line soon or later.

Pooky27
10-27-2011, 06:37 PM
This game will help you learn, but you have to take the lead. Look up techniques and online lessons and then apply them in the game. Trust me, rocking out on the game will keep beginners more interested in playing than sitting in their room by themselves making a bunch of noise and getting frustrated... which leads to them never picking up the guitar again.

I've had a lot of video games over the years and this ranks in my top 5 all time fav. I just hope they put out some bass DLC in the future.

Goooner1
10-28-2011, 01:03 AM
If you want to learn guitar and not just how to be good at the game, have a look at www.justinguitar.com (http://www.justinguitar.com) and do the beginners course.

Totally free. No connection with the site by the way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

flibberflops
10-28-2011, 02:34 PM
It's kinda interesting that two people have responded to this thread by suggesting I have a look at lessons else where! Is this not supporting my original point of this thread the game is somewhat lacking for a total beginner?

Yeah I know there is no magic trick to help you learn the guitar and indeed I realise that this game was created primary for guitar players of some experience. However considering that this game has even been advertised with a trailer called "The Beginner", I don't think I am being unfair to question how much support the game actually gives to new starters?

However, in the interests of giving a balanced opinion I do fully admit that Rocksmith does make the process of repetitive practice far more interesting than any other form guitar learning aids.

GimbalLock
10-28-2011, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flibberflops:
It's kinda interesting that two people have responded to this thread by suggesting I have a look at lessons else where! Is this not supporting my original point of this thread the game is somewhat lacking for a total beginner?

Yeah I know there is no magic trick to help you learn the guitar and indeed I realise that this game was created primary for guitar players of some experience. However considering that this game has even been advertised with a trailer called "The Beginner", I don't think I am being unfair to question how much support the game actually gives to new starters?

However, in the interests of giving a balanced opinion I do fully admit that Rocksmith does make the process of repetitive practice far more interesting than any other form guitar learning aids. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try following the the game suggests you to do, its on the journey screen. Even if you don't think its the right thing to do give it a go anyways.

bperry44
10-28-2011, 02:45 PM
As a fellow beginner, I agree with some of this feedback - but everything I have heard about learning the guitar is about the trough between beginner/intermediate to confident and comfortable. That's what I'm hoping Rocksmith can help me with.

Pushing through some of the beginner issues goes pretty quick, I've found. I just wish that it was easier to replay some of the songs, minigames, and techniques, because I fail out quickly, and sometimes feel like the menus are too slow.

I didn't even think of doing the full CD install onto my xbox HD, I'll try that when I get home.

GimbalLock
10-28-2011, 02:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bperry44:
As a fellow beginner, I agree with some of this feedback - but everything I have heard about learning the guitar is about the trough between beginner/intermediate to confident and comfortable. That's what I'm hoping Rocksmith can help me with.

Pushing through some of the beginner issues goes pretty quick, I've found. I just wish that it was easier to replay some of the songs, minigames, and techniques, because I fail out quickly, and sometimes feel like the menus are too slow.

I didn't even think of doing the full CD install onto my xbox HD, I'll try that when I get home. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i Install every game i'm playing at the moment on to my Hard drive. It make the games play faster and stops the Optical drive from wearing out as fast. the Optical drives wearing out cause more Red Rings of Death than anything else.

sprusegoose
10-28-2011, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flibberflops:
It's kinda interesting that two people have responded to this thread by suggesting I have a look at lessons else where! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I posted those to let you know, you don't have to have the game on to practice. You can watch TV and practice. You can practice at a friends house. Heck you can practice in the bathroom.

But the thing I think you need to know is......



Practice.

MacRukus
10-28-2011, 10:45 PM
The game puts shift position on the display, and there was even a lesson on shifting I think. Look at where the blue shading is on the fret board and put your index finger on the lowest fret shaded.. Try to play the notes with all four fingers, i.e. not moving the position of you index finger, until it moves the shaded area, and shift your index finger and thumb (on the back of the neck, of course) accordingly.

Your idea of endless mode on the techniques is spot on! Heads up Rocksmith- PUT UN-TIMED UN-SCORED MODE IN A FUTURE UPDATE!

Remark153
10-29-2011, 02:40 PM
One thing that might help is some colored guitar strings. There is a set for sale on eBay, 290626147230. You should check them ou, maybe it will ease the frustration.

drew102e
10-29-2011, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flibberflops:
Although I could write a long piece about the merits of Rocksmith... I really also have to question who exactly play tested this game from a beginners point of view??
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

gotta agree with all these points, before purchasing i watched the vids and it seemed like it held your hand a bit more in the beginning, i feel like its a few levels ahead of me and there is nothing to get you there...besides guitar lessons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hab_Fan
10-29-2011, 10:28 PM
Although this game is geared towards the beginner there are still basics of guitar that are not covered in the game that are important. This game should be another tool that you use to learn not the only tool. Like it was mentioned already Justin Guitar is a good place to get the basics.

flibberflops
10-30-2011, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Remark153:
One thing that might help is some colored guitar strings. There is a set for sale on eBay, 290626147230. You should check them ou, maybe it will ease the frustration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's brilliant... Thankyou. I can really see that helping.

To add a couple of top tips of my own...

1) Get in your shed and whittle yourself a game controller stand. Life is so much easier when you have got the controller right in front of you and you only have to extend a finger to navigate the menus.

2) Turn off your console internet connection. This kills the default world rankings score... and so it defaults to your own local scores.

3) As a beginner... consider playing the game with the sound completely turned OFF!
"What" I hear you say? However, hear me out....
Once you get past the groovy feeling of playing the guitar as part of a band, try turning the sound off. The game is still completely playable and you get a lot of added benefits...

a) Arcade games are a lot less pressured with out sound (especially ducks with that annoying "missed" and "hurry up"). You can also hear your own note playing, which makes you noticed you played the wrong note by ear.

b) Music playing is also improved for a beginner. You can really hear when you are playing notes correctly and incorrectly... and better still, when you can recognise "In Bloom" purely by the notes you are twanging acoustically, the feeling is brilliant.

c) You can play late into the night with only the low volume of your none amplified twanging.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting for a 2nd that you should all turn your sound off, I am just pointing out that playing with the sound off is like a 2nd bow to this game... and is still really playable and enjoyable with no sound... and I think in some respects it is better for a beginner with the sound off.

Give it a go!

Dunny10
10-31-2011, 10:27 AM
Id like to echo that some outside help needs to be sought after. I have tried to learn in the past from various sources and found the best is justinguitar.

Knowing a few of the basics goes a long way while establishing a base. I know it has pushed me ahead pretty well.

My problem was with learning before, I just couldnt get into practicing and breaking through walls. Now, playing this 'game' and progressing with some of these songs is all I can think about. Thats where this game really hits the mark.
I dont think it is supposed to be the be-all end-all to learning guitar. Not yet at least.

stimike
10-31-2011, 10:35 AM
Yep, I'd recommend justinguitar.com as well as Marty Schwartz on Youtube.

JamminJAP
10-31-2011, 11:52 AM
****You guys need to look in the menu system, you will find a load of videos about technique, tuning, guitar maintenece, how to hold the guitar, ect. ect. **** even the best guitar players couldnt play much their first year....
Patience is REQUIRED, with all music insrument... except mabye the kazoo !!

JinjaBeard
10-31-2011, 12:06 PM
I agree with some of the sentiments. if you know NOTHING about the guitar there are a few important details left out. like how to position your picking hand most effectively, shifting your hand/fingers properly, explaining that you SHOULD learn to use your pinky..the importance of alternate picking, etc. it would be nice to see a couple basic exercises like fretting the first string 1,2,3,4,3,2,1 (alternate picking each note) then moving to the next lower string, etc. things like that are good beginner exercises. anyways.. it's still pretty beginner-friendly, but keen beginners will be looking elsewhere for some basics.

dnewland
10-31-2011, 12:59 PM
This post was me about six months ago. I had gotten the Rock Band 3 Squier, and was extremely frustrated. And bleeding. God, my fingers hurt.

But after about 2 weeks of playing a couple of hours a day (electrical tape or bandaids are very handy until the callouses on your fingertips start) things started to improve.

I did eventually go to just a few guitar lessons too. Sort of went in and said "here's what I'm doing" and told the instructor that for now I just wanted to be able to play a guitar-based game without hurting myself or smashing the console.

It really helped. Look into how to hold the pick comfortably, and how to hold your thumb properly (still my biggest problem). It may sound weird, but a lot of your fretting problems probably come from having your thumb in the wrong place. Spend some time on the web getting some ideas on this, and if you know anyone who plays, hit them up for a bit of help.

Oh, and I think Next Girl would be a good song to work on if you are just getting going. Its not too fast, and most of it alternates frets 2-4 so it's good practice at spanning two frets.

Good luck!

ARSMETAL
11-02-2011, 02:53 PM
I disagree with the original poster. I think this game has a wealth of information for beginners. I couldn't believe how much learning tools are packed into this game. You have the Technique Challenges, Tutorial Videos, Mini Games and every song you play is a lesson in its self. I think this is a very beginner friendly game.

Will this game teach you everything there is to know about guitar like theory and advanced techniques? No, but its not targeting advanced god like guitarist either. The beginner is the main target and I think they did a damn good job.

If you get into this game and are really serious about learning guitar then who in there right mind wouldn't seek out other lessons elsewhere. We have the GD internet for christ sake. The one thing you should know about playing guitar is that you never stop learning....EVER.