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Superjew1
06-22-2009, 08:54 AM
Asides being able to carrier land with it about 4/10 tries Ive put together a air/naval battle with a japanese battleship/carrier fleet and several zero's in the mix. Now initially the zero's have the advantage as they are not loaded down with rockets at the beginning of the mission so I generally avoid them at first but I can attack them on more equal terms after I shoot all that ordinance at the ships.

What I have trouble with is staying on a zero's tail. I probably shoot one down for every 4x I get shot down and thats usually because there flyiung straight and level and really close. If I try to turn with the zero and fall below 300kmh my front end breaks off from behind it and goes the other way in a stall.

BTW there skill setting is on Average, Id hate to see what an Ace could do to me.

What is the proper way to dogfight zero's with a F4U 1D Corsair?

BTW I never adjust my trim or use my combat flaps, should I try this before dogfighting them?

If I lose this easily to computer opponents Id probably get slaughtered against human opponents.

Superjew1
06-22-2009, 08:54 AM
Asides being able to carrier land with it about 4/10 tries Ive put together a air/naval battle with a japanese battleship/carrier fleet and several zero's in the mix. Now initially the zero's have the advantage as they are not loaded down with rockets at the beginning of the mission so I generally avoid them at first but I can attack them on more equal terms after I shoot all that ordinance at the ships.

What I have trouble with is staying on a zero's tail. I probably shoot one down for every 4x I get shot down and thats usually because there flyiung straight and level and really close. If I try to turn with the zero and fall below 300kmh my front end breaks off from behind it and goes the other way in a stall.

BTW there skill setting is on Average, Id hate to see what an Ace could do to me.

What is the proper way to dogfight zero's with a F4U 1D Corsair?

BTW I never adjust my trim or use my combat flaps, should I try this before dogfighting them?

If I lose this easily to computer opponents Id probably get slaughtered against human opponents.

ClearDarkzz
06-22-2009, 08:59 AM
Use your powerful engines and unparalelled energy to climb. Dive on your opponent guns blazing and zoom back up to the safety of the clouds.

Turning with a Zero is an almost guaranteed death if you fly against it with most U.S fighters

TinyTim
06-22-2009, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
What is the proper way to dogfight zero's with a F4U 1D Corsair?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is none. You don't dogfight a Zero in a Corsair, period. You get higher, dive on him, shoot, and climb back up (or dive further to escape) regardless of whether you hit him or not. Don't turn after him. Hit and run. Refuse to fight (you can always do this since you are faster and better diver) if you don't have enough altitude advantage to boom and zoom.

"There were times, however, that I tangled with a Zero at slow speed, one on one. In these instances I consider myself fortunate to survive the battle." ~ Ken Walsh, USMC ace

"If you are alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell - you are outnumbered." ~ Joe Foss, USMC ace

R_Target
06-22-2009, 09:19 AM
Remember, you can always run away from a Zero. He can never run away from you.

Trefle
06-22-2009, 10:24 AM
Tiny Tim and R_target said it all , i might add that you have to be patient in a Corsair , you need to take the time to trim well your aircraft (rudder with ball centered and elevators ) in order to get sufficient speed before getting into the fight as Zero can accelerate very well at low speeds

Don't for get switching supercharger settings too above 2ks , you need to maintain high speed in combat in that bird (well actually in all birds ) , lowering prop pitch is useful to maintain speed longer when over 450-500kph and cool the engine

Wildnoob
06-22-2009, 12:01 PM
also, that "thing" called R-28000 (the Corsair's engine) have one of the best superchargers of the war. it can have pratically 100 % power in comparison with the ground level at high altitude.

it's one of the major features of the Corsair, as you can always have a edge in altitude not just over the Zero, but against most of the "beasts" of late war Japanese planes like the the Ki-84, Ki-100 and N1K2 that altough have large advantage of the F-4U at lower level, are inferior to it at high altitude.

always use it, couple with it's dive brakes you can dive until the deck from extremely hig altitude without any problem apart from some vibration, because it use part of the landing gear mechanism itself fixed with high hydraulic power to maintein it exntended. but be aware to not use this function in take offs and landings because as this way the gear isn't suported by the additional hydraulic hydraulic pump and may very well brake off under the stress.

Superjew1
06-22-2009, 12:05 PM
Oh, I never thought to mess with the Supercharger settings, so over 2ks is that 200kmh or wut?

Wut is prop pitch?

For the most part the air battles seem to be below 1500m, generally the Zero's stick as close to the ground as possible, and sometimes Ill stall out into the ocean when trying to chase them down.

Wildnoob
06-22-2009, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
Oh, I never thought to mess with the Supercharger settings, so over 2ks is that 200kmh or wut? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't understand you very well buddy. please sorry. my english is horrible. please someone give him advice because I don't manage to understand his question. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

the supercharger on the Corsair (it has 3 stages) must be set as follwing: until 2,600 meters (8,500 ft) you use the standard, the first stage. up to that you need to select the second stage. and up to 8,200 meters (26,900 ft) the third stage must be selected.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wut is prop pitch? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...tch_change_mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_pitch_change_mechanism)

just a basic reference, not complaing really, but this article is very short.

again I'm very idiot and lack acknologe to explain it in a didatic way to him, but would ask again your help great pilot's, if possible.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For the most part the air battles seem to be below 1500m, generally the Zero's stick as close to the ground as possible, and sometimes Ill stall out into the ocean when trying to chase them down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if they strick close to ground, you strick higher, don't care for that. remember that all they want is that you enter in a low spped turninfigth with them where they gonna have induscutible advante. so always denied this for them, and don't care if they are low, as I say, they are just waiting for do that. dive on them from high altitude and make high speed firing passes, attack them, and run away. and always repeat this procedure.

I don't know very well, almost nothing on how a force feedback joystick works, but seems that you don't have one.

try don't make drastic movemments on the stick. be more ligther while pushing. don't mean you need to be slow, but apply a gradative movemment, don't just pull the stick in a brutal movemment that you really going to enter in stall, even at high speed, witch is called high speed stall. both are very comm for new Corsair flyiers, because in fact the plane has this behavior. but once you learn that, no way will be a problem anymore.

Trefle
06-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Prop pitch in game for the Corsair is more like rpm's Superjew , you have to lower them when you dive or when you exceed certain speeds , it helps maintaining high speed providing your plane is well trimmed

If Zeroes fly at 1500meters , fly at 3000 meters , always make sure you are flying at least at the Zero top speed (something like a bit less than 300mph ) when you are at low altitude.

Also when making a pass or diving on them , make sure you are always at least 100mph faster than them so you can zoom away and increase separation from them , also make sure that no Zero is climbing while you dive on other Zekes , always choose the highest , if you follow these rules , it should make it difficult for them to shoot you down , good luck http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ba5tard5word
06-22-2009, 03:01 PM
Top speed in a Corsair is about 560 kph and top speed in a Zero is about 460 kph. Keep your speed up and make quick passes at the Zeros then fly away before they can get on your tail. With its 6 x .50 cals you only need a quick burst to shoot down a Zero. If you are on their tail fly up to them at top speed and fire quickly because they are going to start dancing all over the place and drag you into a turn battle which you will lose. The Corsair would be ok at turning except it flips very easily and loses a lot of speed when it does that.

Xiolablu3
06-22-2009, 03:13 PM
I'm afraid the guys are correct, you DONT dogfight a Zero with a Corsair, in fact in real WW2 the Amercian pilots learned NEVER to close-in dogfight a Zero in ANY US plane, as the Zero just excells at it.

You must find some other way to fight them, or just dont, and avoid them.

Remember that there is no way you can outturn a Zero at lower speeds in a dogfight, so dont try.

The moment it looks like hes around the same speed as you and its turning into a turn/dogfight then dive and run for home.

This sort of thing is easier online because your teammates actually help you and you can kill Zeros with some good teamwork.

I recommend you get online instead of playing the AI if you want some real Corsair vs Zero action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif US planes are fast in straight line speed and good in roll, think of ways you can use this rather than turning contests which you cant win.

(Note that if the speeds are very high 550kph+ then your Corasir will probably turn better, but the slower you get the more the advatage goes back tot he Zero. Therefore dont yank the stick as hard as you can, try and keep your speed up with smooth movements)

jayhall0315
06-22-2009, 04:09 PM
There are plenty of ways to defeat a Zero in a one on one battle with a Corsair. I fought many formal matches against high level Hyperlobby fliers and Masters and their zeros are usually easy to bring down. In order to face a Zero in one on one combat (with your Corsair or Hellcat/Wildcat), you need two things:

1 - Patience
2 - accurate deflection shooting abilities

A good Corsair vs Zero match can sometimes last 20 min or more as the Corsair driver makes passes and gains in altitude, while the Zero driver tries to lull him into a turn fight. Most low level Zero fliers will of course try to rapidly turn onto your six and they also line up for head ons. For these guys, simply approach AOH (angle off head) of about 15 to 20 degrees and walk your fire right into them .... poof... zero fireball guaranteed. For advanced guys, they wont allow you this deflection shot usually so a great tactic here is to use the Corsair's superior speed to get above them (you can do this easily) and then make a pass at them but stay 800m overhead or so. Most of the time they will zoom up and you will put your Corsair in a stall climb as well. Look in your mirror (or use external views if the server allows) and wait till they start stalling (which will always be before you), simply give full rudder input and dive on them as they stall out. You will be presented with multiple deflection shots if you time it correctly. If you miss, just rinse and repeat. ......guaranteed tasty Zero fireballs.

Many guys get into trouble because their patience wears thin after about two to five minutes and then they say screw it and go in for the turn fight with the Zero, which almost always equals death for the Corsair/Hellcat. Just wait them out and get above them, .... then learn to walk your fire into them. Once you get good at it, you can face four or five zeros and still win out (no I am not exaggerating).

Waldo.Pepper
06-22-2009, 04:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
Oh, I never thought to mess with the Supercharger settings, so over 2ks is that 200kmh or wut? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't understand you very well buddy. please sorry. my English is horrible. please someone give him advice because I don't manage to understand his question. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These two comments are just about the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.

M_Gunz
06-22-2009, 06:12 PM
From the aircraft guide.pdf on dvd2 of the 1946 set:

Switch supercharger speeds at 2600m (8500 ft -- that's ALTITUDE) and 8200m (26900 ft).

Good advice for Superjew from JayHall is to spend time on gunnery. Shooting AI is just fine for this, you just need to
learn where your shots are going and how long they take to get there, judge distances and speeds of targets, etc.

Learn to shoot from high closing speed in deflection shots, ie not trying to stay following close because if that's the
only way you can kill then your attack options and plane choices are very limited. You won't learn in an hour or two,
spend real time on it and if you don't know about keeping the ball centered when shooting then be prepared to be really
frustrated at over 100-150m or so. It's more important to gunnery than trim, which is important if you don't like the
nose bobbing. Chances are that if you don't know about supercharger gears then you haven't gotten this far either.

Why not learn how to fly straight and shoot true before jumping into aerial combat? Oh well, why be different?

mortoma
06-22-2009, 06:52 PM
The guy is talking about fighting the AI zeroes I think. At least it would seem so to read his post. In which case the advice to not dogfight/turn fight is not the best advice unless he's a novice. One time I took on about 5 AI zekes in a turn fight and won and I was in a Beaufighter!! And that thing doe not turn even nearly as well as a Corsair. I always turn fight zeros no matter what I'm in if they are AI, even if they are ace strength. Now online this would be suicide within about 20 seconds even if the pilot is a newbie. But against the AI it's a piece of cake. I also have engaged them in B-25s successfully. And they are even worse handling than the Beaufighter any day of the week.

For one thing the AI are bad shots when turning as they can't shoot deflection. So all you have to do is keep turning. And if you keep turning into them they give up after a few turns and let you on their tails. Regardless of the fact that they could easily never let you on their tails, they just do it for some reason. I very seldom get shot down by AI anything, unless I let them sneak up on my tail due to me not being situationally aware at times.

TinyTim
06-22-2009, 07:30 PM
Another thing worth keeping in mind is this - Zeros are armed with high velocity machineguns and slower cannons. AI seems to always deflect as much as needed for machineguns to hit, not cannons. This becomes cruical at longer ranges, so don't feak out if he manages to get some long range deflection shots home - they are light MG bullets, not cannon shells, and most likely won't do you much harm.

Tully__
06-22-2009, 07:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
Wut is prop pitch? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
All you need to know for the game about prop pitch/constant speed controls can be found at http://www.warmkessel.com/jr/flying/td/jd/16.jsp

I love John Deakin's articles, they are so well written, fun to read and easy to follow.

BillSwagger
06-22-2009, 08:12 PM
Also,

AI tend to fly the plane perfectly. They dont suffer from engine management, overheating, and they trim perfectly. So you might actually do better against Zeros flown by human players.
You may need to trim elevators for level flight. As for prop pitch, it only makes a difference in dives for that plane. Drop it to 70% in a dive, then quickly bring it back up to 100%.
Messing with prop pitch in level flight will only slow you down in a Corsair.
As for the supercharger, if you are under 3000M then you don't need to worry about it. If you are in prolonged flight above 3000M then use stage two, and as you get near 6000M or 20,000ft you will need stage 3.
It makes a big difference in speed, especially in level flight.

R_Target
06-22-2009, 08:59 PM
If you're running at WEP (which is quite likely) best altitudes to change SC on the F4U and F6F are ~6500ft. and ~18,000ft.

TS_Sancho
06-23-2009, 03:32 AM
Corsair vs A6M is one of the tougher matchups(by tougher I mean more advanced tactics and piloting skills are required)

My first suggestion would be try a different matchup untill you get comfortable with trim, supercharger settings etc.

BF109E vs. Hurricane mkI is great because complex management is mostly automated in 109 and the 109 enjoys the ability to climb,dive or runaway at will while forcing the pilot to adopt energy tactics if you hope to get a shot on the slower hurri.

If you insist on mid/late war U.S. carrier aviation the F6F Hellcat is a lot more new pilot friendly than the Corsair.

If a Hellcat just wont do it and Corsair has got to be your thing follow the advice everyone has posted and when you get tired of being waxed by Zeros switch sides and record your fights so you can playback your fights and see how the AI handles the Corsair.

As posted by others, patience is the key.

Extend

Climb

engage from superior alt with superior speed

dont turn

extend

repeat as necessairy...

TinyTim
06-23-2009, 04:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Also,

AI tend to fly the plane perfectly. They dont suffer from engine management, overheating, and they trim perfectly. So you might actually do better against Zeros flown by human players.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is so true, and additionally, they don't suffer from max. dive speed. This is especially painful when trying to dive away from zeros. AI zeros (or any other AI planes for that matter) can dive to 900kph with no damage whatsoever, while real ones should start breaking apart between 600 and 700kph (and human controlled ones indeed do!). That's why it's a lot harder to outdive a zero offline.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
Corsair vs A6M is one of the tougher matchups(by tougher I mean more advanced tactics and piloting skills are required)

My first suggestion would be try a different matchup untill you get comfortable with trim, supercharger settings etc.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a very good advice, I'd suggest going even further at the beginning, even into a nonhistorical area with flying a faster, better climber and better diver versus a superior turner - like flying a 25lb spit vs Gladiator or I-153. When you get confident enough in destroying these, gradually improve the kites of your opponents and degrade yours.

Superjew1
06-23-2009, 08:59 AM
Well I havent messed with WEP yet (Whatever that is), or cowlflaps, I usually just accept the trim thats given to me and fly with that even though I have it binded to my hat switch on my Cougar.

I just added complex engine management to the game, any idea on when to increase and decrease your prop pitch to get maximum performance?

Or adjust cowl flaps? I dont even know why you adjust cowl flaps other than I see the AI do it automatically when complex engine management is off.

Usually how my zero fights go down is once the AI realizes Im on there tail, they either do nothing and keep flying straight and easy for me to line up, or they start doing barrel rolls and turning real close to the ocean and I follow and as soon as my plane falls below 300kmh while in a tight turn, my plane stalls out and I fall into the ocean or lose the plane.

Ive kinda learned not to hammerfist the stick to hard when flying and ease into it, but force feedback sure would help out the cougar.

SILVERFISH1992
06-23-2009, 09:04 AM
WEP=War Emergency Power..........I think

TS_Sancho
06-23-2009, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
Well I havent messed with WEP yet (Whatever that is), or cowlflaps, I usually just accept the trim thats given to me and fly with that even though I have it binded to my hat switch on my Cougar.

I just added complex engine management to the game, any idea on when to increase and decrease your prop pitch to get maximum performance?

Or adjust cowl flaps? I dont even know why you adjust cowl flaps other than I see the AI do it automatically when complex engine management is off.

Usually how my zero fights go down is once the AI realizes Im on there tail, they either do nothing and keep flying straight and easy for me to line up, or they start doing barrel rolls and turning real close to the ocean and I follow and as soon as my plane falls below 300kmh while in a tight turn, my plane stalls out and I fall into the ocean or lose the plane.

Ive kinda learned not to hammerfist the stick to hard when flying and ease into it, but force feedback sure would help out the cougar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do yourself a favor and start here...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/9121094645 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

Make sure you understand the contents as these are the basic skills you need to have before your going to enjoy any degree of success no matter how laid back your approach to the game is.

I'm not saying to stop asking questions, ask away. I think you'll find a lot more will be awnsered a lot quicker by reviewing Bearcats Nuggets Guide, taking the information presented to heart and going forward from there.

And most important of all...Have Fun!

Superjew1
06-23-2009, 09:50 AM
I didnt find anything in that article pertaining to WEP, Cowl flaps, or when to adjust your prop pitch.

TS_Sancho
06-23-2009, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superjew1:
I didnt find anything in that article pertaining to WEP, Cowl flaps, or when to adjust your prop pitch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll save you the trouble but amongst the many links you skimmed past in bearcats guide was this...

http://mission4today.com/index...Base&op=show&kid=249 (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=249)

that should get you started

RPMcMurphy
06-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Heres me chasing a Zero in a Corsair. You can see how often I adjust throttle and use flaps alot to stay with him. But I was lucky noplane got on my six and got me.
This is not advisable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...feature=channel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICzZM0ep-c&feature=channel_page)

Ba5tard5word
06-23-2009, 05:54 PM
Try flying a Tempest for a while, it will teach you the skills you need to fly a Corsair. The Tempest has a higher top speed, is less prone to flipping (though it still flips nastily) and requires the same sort of straight-line flying the Corsair needs. Try a Tempest against Ki-61's or Zeros, it's tough but you'll get an idea of what you need to do eventually.

RPMcMurphy
06-23-2009, 06:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Try flying a Tempest for a while, it will teach you the skills you need to fly a Corsair. The Tempest has a higher top speed, is less prone to flipping (though it still flips nastily) and requires the same sort of straight-line flying the Corsair needs. Try a Tempest against Ki-61's or Zeros, it's tough but you'll get an idea of what you need to do eventually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The torque is backwards on a Tempest isn't it?
The Tempest is totally unique if you ask me and has its own learning curve and is way different than a corsair.

Blindman-
06-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Check out the training missions in my signature. They don't go over trim but they do help you get up to speed with everything else while having loads of fun.

Ba5tard5word
06-24-2009, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Tempest is totally unique if you ask me and has its own learning curve and is way different than a corsair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It and the Fw-190 are good planes to learn BnZ tactics because they are bad at turn fighting and lose speed quickly in any maneuvers other than flying straight. I just figured the Tempest would be easier to learn such tactics because it's faster...the Corsair is tougher to keep at a high speed.

RPMcMurphy
06-24-2009, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Tempest is totally unique if you ask me and has its own learning curve and is way different than a corsair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It and the Fw-190 are good planes to learn BnZ tactics because they are bad at turn fighting and lose speed quickly in any maneuvers other than flying straight. I just figured the Tempest would be easier to learn such tactics because it's faster...the Corsair is tougher to keep at a high speed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think I will try a Tempest at BnZ I never have. But I am still learning that myself. I find it hard to outrun planes enough to get away for BnZing.