View Full Version : P.51's gunsight

03-02-2005, 07:43 AM
1. what does p.51's gunsight's sight distance increase/ decrease and wingspan selection do? How much it increases it and can I see it somewhere?
2.What is the diffirence between normal and P.51's gusight?
3. Can I change default elevator trim set permanently?

03-02-2005, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.N.:
1. what does p.51's gunsight's sight distance increase/ decrease and wingspan selection do? How much it increases it and can I see it somewhere?
2.What is the diffirence between normal and P.51's gusight?
3. Can I change default elevator trim set pemanently? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

for #1: is supposed to help gauge range.
#2: the 'star' sight is a gyro. basically advises where the shells might land.
#3: no. trim changes based on speed. what works at very high speed to be level trim, will revert to massive trim down at slow speed

03-02-2005, 09:23 AM
Thanks, but could someone tell little more about how it works. I had problems findig this with find is it not working correctly or can't I use it?

03-02-2005, 09:30 AM
i belive its tied into the bombsite section...velocity in/decrease. that'll move the site in/out. the star will increase or decrease in size.

03-02-2005, 10:08 AM
A.N., if you're asking about trim, it's primarily a matter of adjusting for level flight at specific engine speeds and air speeds. Rudder trim (and to a lesser extent, aileron trim) is used to counter engine torque, so rudder trim increases or decreases in a given direction (according to which way the engine driveshaft rotates) as you increase or decrease power. Elevator trim changes with your airspeed; the faster you go, the more nose down trim you must apply to stay level, and of course, as you slow down, the more nose up trim you will need to apply.

Since your engine power and airspeed are constantly changing if you're doing anything but cruising along in a straight line (and that only happens in solo flights or offline missions where you are the flight leader), you will have to be constantly adjusting your trim, much like the pilots who flew the actual aircraft had to. Some aircraft have no trimmable control surfaces, and the 109 and 190 have only elevator trim.

US fighters had lots of trim controls (which are most useful during long flights), and require more trimming efforts. In combat, this can be a pain in the neck, because you have a bit of delay built into your trim inputs, and you can find yourself fighting the stick when you have too much trim in one direction or the other, making it hard to aim accurately.

This is where the K-14 'gyro' gunsight comes in: it tells you where your guns are actually pointing when you're not centering your trim. That's why it moves around so much more than the standard sight dot.

In the game, you have to enter the Controls menu and select the keyboard keys or joystick buttons to control the Gunsight/Bombsight. These are all User Defined, which means that there is no default setting; you have to enter your choices for those commands to take effect.

Toggling Sight Mode allows you to cycle from the standard sight to a combined sight (where you see both the standard fixed circle & dot and the 'gyro' sight picture), or to the gyro sight alone.

The default range setting is the convergence range you have set for your mission. Adjusting Sight control to left or right changes the diameter of the sight 'ring' to change to match the selected enemy aircraft's wingspan (look at the sight in Gunsight View; you'll see that there are LW aircraft ranging in wingspan from the ME 109 to the He 177 listed along the dial) at the selected range.

I believe that the Distance adjustments increase or decrease in 50m increments, but I haven't played with them that much. They change where the sight points at, not where your convergence is set for, so I'd be careful about using them. The velocity settings are specific to bombsights, AFAIK.

Hope this helps.



03-02-2005, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.N.:
Thanks, but could someone tell little more about how it works. I had problems findig this with find is it not working correctly or can't I use it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The gunsight is the K-14 lead computing gunsight, called a 'gyro sight'

It has three modes
1) fixed
2) fixed+gyro
3) gyro only

The first step is to set your convergence, by which I mean the point at which the bullet 'streams' from your wing guns will cross in front of your aircraft

There is no 'perfect' convergence that everyone should use. You must determine that yourself. As an aside, the gyro feature defaults to about 150 meters

If you don't know how to figure out your convergance we can cover that, too

Toggle the K-14 through it's modes
In Fixed you have the standard 'ring and dot'
In fixed+gyro you have a pattern of diamond shapes (called the 'pipper') and the 'ring and dot'
In gyro only, you have the pipper only

The gunsight, in a nutshell, allows you to do only one thing, but that one thing can be set two ways. I'll explain

All you do is increase or decrease the size of the 'pipper'. That's it. But, this can be altered to provide for two seperate things:

1) Target size
2) range

In the real k-14 you could adjust pipper size 'on the fly' easily, it was on the throttle handle, like a motorcycle throttle. In FB, it's a bit too hard; I recommend not trying to constantly alter range

But first: The pipper works by target wingspan. Essentially, when the target is 'in range', it's wings, when viewed directly from astern, will touch the edge of the diamond pattern of the 'pipper'

If you look at the gunsight body, you will see a list of aircraft names. Selecting a new aircraft makes the 'pipper' re-size automatically- so that at the range the pipper was pre-set to (important to remember), the selected aircraft will be 'framed' correctly by the pipper

It will not calculate extreme deflection shots (At which your aircraft's flight path makes a large angle to the target's), and it requires time to stabilize, as it works on gyro principles- so it will bob a little for a second as you manuever. A lot of players expect it to do a lot of things it can't- it is not a tracking computer

What it does is predict the lead (not as in the metal) you want to use to hit your target when it is not directly in front of you

Let's say your gun convergance is 270 meters

You fly a mission. I recommend you increase range for the pipper a bit. To do this well, I suggest you need experience knowing how far an enemy is away from you, otherwise, it's all a guess.

You set the pipper out to the correct size before you fire a shot(you will know, or need to know, how big that diamond pattern needs to be to correctly frame the enemy's wingspan at your convergence, it my example, this will be 270 meters- setting your gun convergence in the set-up screen will not, repeat will not do this for you, you must set range by hand, range on the K-14 is not automatically set for convergance). Then, you select the target type, at which time the K-14 will automtically re-size to relflect the wingspan of the target at the range you have pre-set it at before the combat took place

03-02-2005, 10:21 AM
Ok - hope this helps: It's a gyro gunsite that helps you with deflection shooting. The center dot within the diamonds will indicate exactly where your guns are pointed at.

Here's how I use it:

1. When turned on, the default range is set to about 175 yeards or so out in front of the plane. By adjusting the "sight distance" the sight will be set either farther out (200, 250 yds, etc.) or closer (i.e. 150, 125 yds etc.)

2. Knowing this, you should set your gun convergence to, more orless, match the sight distance. To make it easy, I set my guns at about 170 meters and just turn the sight on and not fiddle with it's distance. Makes things easier.

3. Now, say your flying along an spot a 109 lazily coming in for a landing. You fly up to the 109. As you get closer, you hit a keystroke (that you must bind in the control section of the main menu) to set the aircraft type on the sight to "ME-109."

4. When the wingtips of 109 meet the outer diamonds of the sight, you are about 175 yds behind it (assuming you didn't increase or decrease the sight distance at any time). You are also at gun convergence. You fire and you will hit it, no questions asked.

%. It's real benefit comes in when deflection shooting. Say that 109 made a sharp climbing left turn as you approached it's rear. You follow it in it's turn. The gyro sight will move off center. Just keep the 109 within the sight with its wing tips touching the diamonds and you will hose the guy!

As the 109 is banking more of the plane will be visable to you (and set within the sight!) rather than on a dead 6:00 approach. If you keep the 109 in that sight he'll be hit with a ton of shells!

The K-14 is a real, measurable benefit to the Mustang pilot. I no longer use the fixed sight. If you get comfortable with it, you will hit enemy planes consisitently and shoot them down. In a Mustang, this is very important, as it doesn't like to mill around in dogfights and doesn't have cannons.

So, in sum:

1. Decide and set your sight distance;
2. Match your gun cinvergence to that distance;
3. Select the aircraft type you are facing;
4. Endeavor to keep the aircraft within the diamonds of the sight;
5. Fire!

03-04-2005, 06:05 AM
"when turned on"? So I have to turn it on first?

03-04-2005, 06:12 AM
Ok I found it. Thanks this really helped me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

03-04-2005, 07:20 AM
Right now the P-51D-20 and the YP-80 are the only two aircraft in the game with a lead calculating gunsight. In both cases, the gunsight helps with accuracy in a big way.

The Spitfire XIV with its almost identical GGS Mark II gunsight will be a heck of a plane too.