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View Full Version : Do you have CH Fighterstick, Pro Pedals & The Pro Throttle??



PapaG39
06-20-2005, 04:40 PM
If u do then I would like to compare settings with you...
I have had one heck of a time getting the flight characteristics stable with this new 401M Patch.
It is almost (but not quite) as stable as with the 304 patch.
I just can't get it to hold stable for that final "spot on shooting". it is wavering up & down or sideways just enough to "NOT" be able to get a stable shot...

below is where I am at now...how does this compare with you settings ...that is, if ...IF...you have a good stable shooting platform With the CH Fighterstick & Pro Pedals...

my setuup shows via the Hotas setup in Il2
Aileron X-Axis ID3
Elevator Y-Axis ID3
Rudder Z-Axis ID2

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z1=0 65 68 72 77 82 85 88 92 96 100 0
1X2=0 75 77 79 81 84 88 91 94 97 100 0
1Y2=0 75 77 79 81 84 88 91 94 97 100 0
1Z2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

PapaG39
06-20-2005, 04:40 PM
If u do then I would like to compare settings with you...
I have had one heck of a time getting the flight characteristics stable with this new 401M Patch.
It is almost (but not quite) as stable as with the 304 patch.
I just can't get it to hold stable for that final "spot on shooting". it is wavering up & down or sideways just enough to "NOT" be able to get a stable shot...

below is where I am at now...how does this compare with you settings ...that is, if ...IF...you have a good stable shooting platform With the CH Fighterstick & Pro Pedals...

my setuup shows via the Hotas setup in Il2
Aileron X-Axis ID3
Elevator Y-Axis ID3
Rudder Z-Axis ID2

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z1=0 65 68 72 77 82 85 88 92 96 100 0
1X2=0 75 77 79 81 84 88 91 94 97 100 0
1Y2=0 75 77 79 81 84 88 91 94 97 100 0
1Z2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Saunders1953
06-20-2005, 05:52 PM
Here's mine. No problems to speak of.


[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1Y=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1RZ=0 38 48 56 63 68 76 81 88 94 100 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RX1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RY1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1X2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Y2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1Z2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

PapaG39
06-20-2005, 09:09 PM
hmmmm... With straight 100's it is totally uncontrollable for me.....Either your "just funning me" or I have something else causing problems...

PapaG39
06-20-2005, 09:23 PM
you have some lines that I don't have...
What are these (1RZ=0) pointing to?
Do you have something other then the CH Fighterstick/Pro pedals & throttle?

1RZ=0 38 48 56 63 68 76 81 88 94 100 0

1RX1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RY1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1RZ1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Saunders1953
06-20-2005, 10:04 PM
PapaG39:

I really don't pay that much attention to it, but this is right out of my config file. I have CH propedals, combatstick and rudders. I really don't know what all the other numbers relate to. Is it possible that the axes preceded by the "1" correspond to Device #1, which is my joystick? I have a lot mapped to that and trim is on it too (on the wheels). I'm pretty much a luddite at this, but I have to say everything flys right and rudder works great for aiming.

I hope you can work it out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Tully__
06-21-2005, 12:50 AM
The conf.ini files will differ if one of you is using the CHManager software to combine your devices into one virtual controller and the other has left them as three seperate devices.... make sure you're looking at the same thing before confusing each other http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Padser
06-21-2005, 03:33 AM
This excellent link will tell you everything you need to know about joystick set up: http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

<quote>
The lines beginning 1X, 1Y, 1RX, 1RZ, 1U, 1V & 1Z correspond to the Windows ID#1 controller (there may be more or less in your file, depending on the number of axes present on your controllers). The lines corresponding to the ID#2 controller begin 1X1, 1Y1, 1RX1, 1RZ1 etc. If you have more controllers plugged in you will also have 1X2, 1Y2, 1RX2, 1RZ2 etc for Windows ID#3 and so forth.
</quote>

Pads

Iron_Hand1
06-21-2005, 02:22 PM
I like to leave the game Sensitivities set at default for my pitch and roll, though I changed the yaw to 10 20 30 40.......100. Then I go into the CH manager and adjust the stick/pedals sensitivity there. Took all of 5 minutes to make 4.01 feel almost the same as 3.04 (LOL)

~S~

Papa_K
06-22-2005, 12:00 AM
Just got (Monday) the Fighterstick/Throttle/Pedals combo. (Started with just the pedals, last week, and then got the bug a couple days later.) Coming from a twitchy Saitek Evo to this, with a reset to game-default curves it seems smooth as silk. (My aim has improved...strike that: my equipment has improved my aim.)

One thing I had to check myself on was overmapping. Coming from a stick where I had only a handful of buttons... Even in just one mode, I've got more Stick/Throttle controls avialable now than is necessary here. (I've remapped, leaving on-keyboard some non-HOTAS controls (etc.) that I could easily have mapped, but that's a different story.)

The one thing these products need is a decent Owner's Manual. A step-by-step setup would be nice. It took a while to muddle through the setup, and the process could definitely have been quicker. A tutorial, and some examples from popular current games would help too.

A couple of questions for the CH veterans:

(1) I haven't scripted brakes onto the pedals yet...that' one thing I still have to do. Have any of you gone that way? (I've seen numerous examples, from the simple, to the complex attempts at mimicing differential braking.)

(2) I've got all my stick/throttle controls mapped. Is that the approved solution here? (In-game I set the throttle, rudder, aileron and elevator axis...that was about it for in-game since I did a .cmc file for commands.)

Again, I did reset to the standard in-game curves:
0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
for elevator, ailerons, and rudder, with:
0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
for the brake axis. Can't complain about the feel or response.

For you long-time CHers: It's probably more a matter of getting used to different input responses with the new patch - to me the change to CH, with default settings, was a major improvement, even with default curves.

Papa_K

EnGaurde
06-22-2005, 12:12 AM
Luddites unite !

Thats all I have to offer.

I'll go now.

Akwar
06-22-2005, 12:15 AM
no but I sure wish I could afford all 3.I make do with a thrustmaster Afterburner II HOTAS for now and it does its job.I must say I love the rocker rudders on the throttle over twist joysticks.Id like a set of pedals but I doubt the CH onews would be compatible with my stick setup.

And for the cougar well I heard they wear out way to fast and arent worth $200.

Regards,

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-22-2005, 06:30 AM
I use all default settings with no problems.

TB

Saunders1953
06-22-2005, 07:07 AM
Papa_K, PapaG39---you guys related? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Papa_K, I use pretty much default settings for the 3 CH products. You are right--the Manual is very hard to follow in some important parts, like dealing with macros. Anyway, as for the brake, go into the game's control section to the HOTAS section, click on the Brake setting, and you should be able to just tap the (right or left) brake pedal and be on your way. (I'm not at home, so I can't check, but I think you leave the brake on the CH pedal control manager in direct mode.) In the game control section, it should show up as a Y axis on whatever controller ID your pedals are on--ID1, ID2 or ID#.

ComradeBadinov
06-22-2005, 04:34 PM
I also have all my axis controllers set to 100% in the Controls section of the game.... It's where they need to be, you need to set the sensitivity and dead zone in your CH control manager program. If you don't know how, I suggest you read the help/tutorial section and learn how to calibrate your entire HOTAS set up..... you should be having no problems at all with them set to 100% http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
If you have TS or ventrilo and you see me in the Lobby I would be happy to explain the calibration and CMS and CMC programs. The only good advice I can offer is to TAKE THE TIME to read and understand these functions in the CM control manager, and not be in a hurry to fly.. Once you have it right, you will understand it's not that hard.... and it makes all the difference in the world when it's done right. And don't be afraid to post on CH forums.

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/

And believe me I'm not all that great at Puter stuff... and I can do it.... by the way I go by ~BeoWolf~ in HL....

horseback
06-23-2005, 11:15 AM
I've been operating with a Combatstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals for a couple of years now, and the one thing I always recommend to new users of the Control Manager is to invest in a loose leaf notebook.

I find that it is much easier to print out the Help/User's Guide pages and put them into the notebook, where I can turn back and forth between pages and occasionally hold the confusing/ conflicting passages side by side. Maybe I'm just an old fart, but I get more from reading off a printed page than from a computer screen, especially since I can highlight key passages and write notes and clarifications in the margins.

I've stayed with the CH stock sensitivities in my CH Control Manager Il-2 profile, and made any changes needed in game in the Inputs section. If you've combined all 3 controllers into one (or two; I think single controller profiles are limited to 6 axes and 32 button plus an 8-way POV hat), it's fairly easy to set up the Controls Menu in-game to your personal needs. I have separate Control Menus set for LW fighters, Allied late and early fighters, multi-engine aircraft, and Naval fighters (chocks and tailhooks, you know), and ther's no problem keeping them straight.

cheers

horseback

PapaG39
06-23-2005, 12:03 PM
Horseback...
I do agree with you on using a printed page in a loose leaf vs reading from the computer pages.
However, I have ..NEVER...been able to completely do a profile because I can't get the trim wheel to work on the wheel in CH manager while it works well in the hotas area of il2 input.

So, I have found that just using in "in-game" conf.ini files in lL2+AE+PF works easier.
In the ch manager it shows the Rudders in the top position followed by the throttle & Fighterstick.
I modify:
ID2...Rudder...1Z1=0
ID3...Roll.....1X2=0
ID3...Aileron..1Y3=0

this seems to work best because if I modify via the CH Manager it also effects ms 2004 flight characteristics.

Where I am having my main problems though, and it is driving me more crazy, is that:

I have a "jerkyness? kind of like an electrical impulse that causes the aircraft to have a small jumping motion seen best through the gunsight with the max zoomed mode.

like: when you are doing a run on a ground object...looking through the gunsight I see a small intermitten "jump" either above or below the target..it has been impossible for me to control this small jump..kinda like a spike in the game motion..
its just small, but it makes it impossible to hit anything with a stable shot.
I had this spikeing with the X45 joystick also..and have never been able to fine tune it out...

has anyone else noticed this small jumping while in a dive?
check it out by making a run on a ground object & using the max zoom and looking through the gunsight.

thanks...any feed back on this would be most welcome...lol

horseback
06-23-2005, 02:44 PM
Are you using Control Manager 3.6? It can be downloaded from CH Products' website at

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/tech_support.html

Also, have you checked your joystick's calibration using Control Manager? If the joystick throttle axis isn't being detected in the Control Manager, but is being detected in the Il-2 Control Menu HOTAS section, something may be wrong with your Control Manager software. Doing a calibration of the Fighterstick may 'force' the Control Manager to see the throttle axis. If not, I'd recommend re-loading (or downloading anew) the Control Manager software.

When developing a profile combining multiple controllers into one, you need to take care not to duplicate axis designations.

My base Il-2 profile assigns everything to CM Device 1, button assignments on the stick being the starting point (1-10 for a Combatstick, plus 27-30 on the POV hat being assigned to DirectX mode) the rest of the buttons go from eleven through 26 on the Pro Throttle (change each DX Device to CM Device 1, and add 10 to the button #, and I used the POV hat for looking around before I got TrackIR3). The axis assignments are as follows (all CM Device 1):

X/Y: Pitch/Roll (Combatstick X/Y)

Z: Pro Throttle throttle axis

R: Pro Pedals rudder axis

V: Combatstick throttle wheel

Slider 0: Toe brake (right pedal)

Once you've created a profile, save and name it. I have a few different profiles for different flight sims, including MSFS 2004 (I use my CH Yoke for that one). You'll have to load and download the profile before starting FB/AEP/PF, but since I have to wait for a couple of minutes for my Norton Utilities to run through their post-startup checks for a couple of minutes anyway, I can use that time to load the Control Manager profile.

About that little 'jerk', I occasionally experience something like that when crossing from over land to water, or while fighting the tendency for the nose to rise as my speed increases (as in a dive). I suspect that it may have something to do with crossing a 'threshold' set by the game engine or in the specific aircraft's Flight Model. It seems more pronounced in US fighters than in the 109 or 190 (I don't fly other types so much, so I can't comment on them).

Of course, being an old squid (Navy), it may be just the natural end result of too much coffee or too little beer in the last 24 hours...

cheers

horseback

PapaG39
06-23-2005, 04:35 PM
yes, I have 3.6 manager & it is functioning properly & everything is calibrated properly.

I have profiled buttons on my fighterstick for Call of duty & Brothers in arms & use the joystick for moving fore/aft/left/right and they are working well those games. I use the logitek track ball mouse for looking around...

As far as a profile for Il2...
In il2 I guess you would have to assign keyboard commands for all of those functions that have no default keys assigned for them.

I also have track IR so I don't use those pov things on the CH stick or throttle.

I use the right trim wheel for pitch trim.
I use the side moving wheel for rudder trim and I use the left wheel for prop pitch.

I'll spend some more time trying to figure out how to profile again...I have already spend about 40 hours with no success & finely just gave up.

As for that little jerk...yes, I also believe that it is the flight modeling which is fighting the trim modeling in a dive...It is impossible to completely fine tune trim while changing speeds (as in a dive) because you are dealing with a computer and not a real acft. Adjusting for real control forces are hard enough to work with & I imagine it is very difficult to program that stuff into a game...lol...

horseback
06-23-2005, 05:02 PM
In Il-2, you can reassign the controls listed in the Controls Menu to joystick and/or keyboard for each pilot listed (I have one or two for each of the categories I listed before). I assigned trim to the buttons on the joystick (actually, the four cardinal points of the Combatstick POV hat are assigned to elevator and rudder trim, and the aileron trim are on the upper 4-way 'thumb' switch above the POV hat (which I now use to center or disable TIR, and adjust my gyro gunsight, or select engines in twin engined a/c).

Those side wheels to the right and behind your stick actually adjust your X/Y potentiometers, and the game seems to treat moving major control surfaces differently as opposed to trim surfaces, even though the major control surfaces are what is visibly deflected.

Moving those X/Y adjustments just pulls your stick out of center, and it's not always easy to reestablish that centering in-flight. In any case, you're definitely not adjusting your rudder trim, you're adjusting your aileron trim with the back wheel. This may also have some effect on your accuracy.

cheers

horseback

PapaG39
06-23-2005, 07:35 PM
oppp..dang me...I did say that wrong...

the wheel behind the joystick "IS" what I use for the aileron trim.

On the Pro throttle are 3 red buttons.
I use the left & middle for left & right rudder & the far right button for my cannons.

It sounds like you have this CH manager down very well for profiling...
I think (IF...I can begin to understand it) this manager will really make things easier.

I have also noticed that certain aircraft...i.e. 109, I-16 (there are more)..which are ( I believe) aircraft that have their trim set on the ground, start out in the air with the ball all the way to the right side...it makes it hard to control when u can't center the ball with rud trim, but instead, have to use direct rudder inputs which can make it very hard to control...

anyway, thanks for your input...I'll keep your notes for future reference...

horseback
06-23-2005, 08:42 PM
You might want to go to the CH website and download a few of the profiles available at the CH hanger forum noted in Comrade Badinov's post. Or, if you prefer, PM me and I'll write you a step by step procedure on how to set up a nd save a profile (I write technical test procedures as part of my job). It's not as hard as some of the 'technical-ese' in the Help/User's Guide makes it sound for some folks.

Now, about those trim settings: what I have found very useful with the I-16 & other no-trim aircraft is to use the "Wonderwoman" (Control F1) view in Quick Mission Builder to determine what speeds the aircraft is set to cruise at. When the 'vector' bubble is centered in line with the center dot, your throttle is set for the cruise speed. If your throttle is set higher, you add rudder on the appropriate side to compensate (according to which way your prop spins-soviet fighters are different from the 109, for example), and when it is lower, you compensate with opposite throttle. After a bit of solo cruising (I like to fly under all the bridges I can find on the Leningrad map; if you can do that, you have a good feel for the aircraft), it becomes almost second nature.

The I-16 is a particular pain to fly until you get this sorted out because the spade grip stick hides the needle and ball; in fact, all the Russian birds are handicapped either in this way or by having their compasses obscured by the gunsight, or in both ways. I can't imagine how some guys here can fly these things in Full Real without seeing your compass, turn & bank indicator, or having the Speedbar enabled, even with TIR.

cheers

horseback

PapaG39
06-23-2005, 10:49 PM
Idid check out the ch forum & some of the profiles, but we are all different & everyone likes things a bit different then I do.

yes, I would very much like to take you up on your splended offer...lag739@cox.net

in reference to I-16 and other aircraft with no "in ockpit" trim wheel ...yes you do get a stronger leg however, in the real aircraft it is a bit easier to hold a stable aircraft because you get very use to the different flight loads & you become accustomed to doing what needs doing just by rote...

however, I think they made the I-16 more difficult then need be for "computer operation"

Also, I just can't imagine that so many of the primary instruments...i.e. compass, vsi etc were completely hidden from the pilots view...no more then some of the gunsights being so dark that you could not actually see through them as things got a bit dark like at twilight.

I believe that the pilots also had sun glasses in 1942...and used them... how can u see to shoot at twilight condition or rainy cloudy dark conditions if your dam*ned gunsight was grayed out...that is just one of my sore points with olag along with gunsights that are mostly hidden from view behind the instrument panel.....what did a guy do? maybe he held his fingers in a "V" & thot through the middle of them...lol

The_Gorey
06-23-2005, 11:13 PM
i use 100 across the board in-game.. but i set up a slight curve in the mapper software (2 clicks down on the curve control).

PapaG39
06-24-2005, 01:41 PM
hmmm...now that I have my controlls setup fairly qwell I reflew the I-16...and, I stand corrected!...
The I-16 flys just fine...you can't really see the ball very well through the control yoke, but If you do hold some right rudder & make some actual rudder input on a banked turn, then it flys very well. you just have to keep the speed up in the 300 kph or greater range and you don't run into olags programmed "immediate & un survivable" " flat spin that I think he put in to show you that you were not paying attention to you speed...

MOH_GUMBY
07-02-2005, 02:25 PM
Horseback Sir..

I just purchased a CH fighterstick and am having a heck of a time setting up a profile for it and my CH Pro Rudder Pedals.

I would be very appreciative of a map to use. Am also curious of how the pedals and stick show up in the in game controllers section. The pedals used to be the main input and my Saitek Evo was ID2 before.

Any help would be great.
malk415@gmail.com

Gumby

horseback
07-02-2005, 06:01 PM
On its way, Gumby. PM me if you have any problems.

cheers

horseback