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View Full Version : OMG READ!!! ANOTHER GOOD EFFECT



Snuffly
12-05-2004, 10:08 PM
I just want to put in another effect that noone has thought of before.

You know when your flying and you go in for the kill and come in 2 feet behind him?

Well from 0-50feet behind another plane you should get some sort of turbulance...

why? you ask? Because when the other planes propeller is spinning it is realeasing A lot of wind that you fly in to when coming up behind him.

prty good eh?

btw a good book is "Mustang Ace"

woofiedog
12-05-2004, 10:16 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gifExcellent thought Snuffly... could very well be true.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
12-05-2004, 10:24 PM
Question though, why would you be 2 feet behind him? Nobody flies formation that way(or at least shouldnt) if your attacking a plane I doubt he is gonna stay still. Is a nice idea but would be a waste IMHO on any combat sim now or in the future because would be a waste of resources to model something that will happen for only a microsecond if your dogfighthing. BnZers dont get that close to take the effect, TnBers wont see this cause they are too busy turning.

3.JG51_BigBear
12-05-2004, 10:40 PM
It would be a great effect for bomber intercepts. German pilots talk about being bounced around by the prop wash of the heavy bomber as they tore their way through the formations. I think its a great idea but a way off from being modelled, especially since right now turbulance in the game involves extreme amounts of shaking and force feedback sticks trying to rip themselves from players' hands.

A.K.Davis
12-05-2004, 10:41 PM
Oleg said prop wash will be in Battle of Britain.

Hunde_3.JG51
12-05-2004, 10:56 PM
I would swear that I felt some effect when passing very close by another plane in a head-on, it happened again just last night. My plane sort of dipped into him after we passed. I get nothing when behind an aircraft though I'm sure it is two different forces at work.

Snuffly
12-05-2004, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _VR_ScorpionWorm:
Question though, why would you be 2 feet behind him? Nobody flies formation that way(or at least shouldnt) if your attacking a plane I doubt he is gonna stay still. Is a nice idea but would be a waste IMHO on any combat sim now or in the future because would be a waste of resources to model something that will happen for only a microsecond if your dogfighthing. BnZers dont get that close to take the effect, TnBers wont see this cause they are too busy turning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most pilots in WW2 got there kills from being that far away.
When i fly i try to get as close as i can, so i can make every shot count.

And i know they won't saty still so be prepared to take the action to move with them.

It really dose work well and it scares the sheet oughta the enemy

Chivas
12-05-2004, 11:34 PM
I've been thrown almost out of control by turbulance in very close encounters.

Fennec_P
12-06-2004, 12:48 AM
You sure you didn't lose a wing in a collision?

B/C there is no propwash or wake turbulence in PF. You can park behind a B-17s wing and have smooth sailing.

But like Davis said, Oleg is planning it for BoB. I remember he said something to the effect that it would not be possible to do it in a realistic fashion in the IL-2 series. The random pitch and jiggle (like it is now for wind turbulence) is nothing like the real thing.

WWMaxGunz
12-06-2004, 02:27 AM
It's a lot to ask of a combat flight sim for turbulence effects behind planes.
The biggest one would be behind and below a bit, from the lift effect driving
air downward anyway.

What we do get depending on how fast your machine is, is some control lag due to
the load of collision checking or at least we used to with a PC that was already
not running high FPS.

2 FEET Snuffly? Please, rethink or at least put a smiley or something there.
2 feet and a small bit faster and you have collision. Would you walk that close
on a sidewalk? Yes, but not comfortable walking fast unless maybe in formation
as a group, ie soldiers.
Nobody in real would fly even 20 feet to shoot. Well some but I think they are
or were crazy -- there is no need and you have no reaction distance to maneuver.
20 meters maybe more like it for extreme close and 10 meters is pushing dangerous
to the attacker. From both, debris from the target could take you down. On the
icons, 20 meters shows as .02. Icon ranges are decimal kilometers.

Hunde_3.JG51
12-06-2004, 02:34 AM
Fennec, negative on the collision. It was a head-on pass, not from behind.

Wolf-Strike
12-06-2004, 01:23 PM
Heres another idea and I think will add greatly to BOB.I doubt well see this though.

Wings bending under pressure.Would be espescially fascinating to watch the new large bombers taking off and their wings bending,dependant on fuel and ordinance and G.

I always ask for the wing seat i when I fly because i love to watch as a 757's wings bend.

Also sounds of the frame bending will add more immersion.

Ugly_Kid
12-06-2004, 02:03 PM
You can feel the propwash still from 30 m (100 ft) distance, no problem. Try flying a glider in a tow, even 150 HP towplane creates a notable propwash at that distance...

A.K.Davis
12-06-2004, 03:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolf-Strike:
Heres another idea and I think will add greatly to BOB.I doubt well see this though.

Wings bending under pressure.Would be espescially fascinating to watch the new large bombers taking off and their wings bending,dependant on fuel and ordinance and G.

I always ask for the wing seat i when I fly because i love to watch as a 757's wings bend.

Also sounds of the frame bending will add more immersion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My grandpa trained as a B-24 ball-turret gunner (then they switched him to radar op just before shipping out), and he remembers his first trip to altitude in the Liberator quite well. Looking out and seeing the fuselage hanging 3 feet or so beneath the wingtips scared the **** out of him.

DIRTY-MAC
12-06-2004, 04:04 PM
I remember reading about a russian fighter ace talking about propwash, he said he liked to go in about 20metres behind an enemy because at that distance there were calm air and he could aim better as otherwise the turbulence from the propwash would make it very hard to hold the plane steady and aim, I will try to find the text,

WWMaxGunz
12-06-2004, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:
You can feel the propwash still from 30 m (100 ft) distance, no problem. Try flying a glider in a tow, even 150 HP towplane creates a notable propwash at that distance... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that at airports the small planes wait a while after a big one lands because
the disturbed air going down can get you killed. I forget how long though but it is far
longer than I expected and I guess wind conditions do make that vary.

Snuffly
12-06-2004, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
2 FEET Snuffly? Please, rethink or at least put a smiley or something there.
2 feet and a small bit faster and you have collision. Would you walk that close
on a sidewalk? Yes, but not comfortable walking fast unless maybe in formation
as a group, ie soldiers.
Nobody in real would fly even 20 feet to shoot. Well some but I think they are
or were crazy -- there is no need and you have no reaction distance to maneuver.
20 meters maybe more like it for extreme close and 10 meters is pushing dangerous
to the attacker. From both, debris from the target could take you down. On the
icons, 20 meters shows as .02. Icon ranges are decimal kilometers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok mabey not two feet but more like ten. I'm serious, it works great and its very cool to fly through your enemy's ball of fire.
The pony is very good at this.

rummyrum
12-06-2004, 04:58 PM
Something similar is already in the sim. It is not as pronounced but has been around since FB was released. I experienced it the other day when lining my Zero up to make that carrier landing. As I settled in on my decent a wingman shot infront of me also on his approach. His wash sent me into a stall which I could not recover. Do a head on with another craft, sometimes it will throw you into a stall after you pass into his wake. I think it is modeled you just need to be close to experience it. I have only experienced the effect when against a fighter.

willyvic
12-06-2004, 05:42 PM
You sure it's not object "ground effect"? I have been "pulled" down to the deck on many occasions.

WV

3.JG51_BigBear
12-06-2004, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:
You can feel the propwash still from 30 m (100 ft) distance, no problem. Try flying a glider in a tow, even 150 HP towplane creates a notable propwash at that distance... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that at airports the small planes wait a while after a big one lands because
the disturbed air going down can get you killed. I forget how long though but it is far
longer than I expected and I guess wind conditions do make that vary. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look at commerical airliners now, they are starting to be retrofitted with very tall wingtips that extend veritcally from the wing. They are meant to alleviate some of these problems because smaller airplanes were actually being flipped over by these forces.

antifreeze
12-06-2004, 07:40 PM
You can make chutes colapse and fall with the propwash / turbulence modelled. Just fly very close under and up past a chute. It's fun. And no-one can say it's bad form, because you're not shooting them!

And what about the V1 rocket? You can upset it's balance by disturbing the airflow over it's wings.

Wolf-Strike
12-06-2004, 08:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis
My grandpa trained as a B-24 ball-turret gunner (then they switched him to radar op just before shipping out), and he remembers his first trip to altitude in the Liberator quite well. Looking out and seeing the fuselage hanging 3 feet or so beneath the wingtips scared the **** out of him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got scared also the first time I witnessed wings bending.Now seeing this in BOB will be icing on the cake.Imagine flybys just as a group of Liberators pull up fully loadedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also would love to see the purpoising that some planes had at high speed making them ineffective gun platforms for B$Z.And finally I cant wait for realistic propwash with realistic suspensions modeled for each plane and seeing how they contort and react to 2000HP Torque monsters will be heaven for me.

Would love to see a small PIP screen pop up in corner of cockpit,showing a grounds crew guiding you to take off or land on a carrier.

Dale

dlian
12-09-2004, 05:09 AM
[/QUOTE]
I understand that at airports the small planes wait a while after a big one lands because
the disturbed air going down can get you killed. I forget how long though but it is far
longer than I expected and I guess wind conditions do make that vary.[/QUOTE]

Wake turbulence separation is what you mean. Separation distances between aircraft vary between 4 - 6 nm depending on the combination of aircraft involved. Typically a heavy jet in the B747 class paired with a following light aircraft and calm conditions will require greater separation.

womenfly
12-09-2004, 01:30 PM
Hi,

Have a comment about prop-wash .... I am a pilot and have been caught in it, no warm and cozy feeling I assure you. Prop-wash swirls in the direct the prop spins, I say this because some aircraft propellers turn clock-wise and some counter clock-wise ... mostly European aircraft. The effect is a corkscrew column of air to the spinning side and drops down behind the plane. To stay out of it is to be high, to the side or far back, and level. The heavier the aircraft the more sever it is and lets not forget about wake turbulence from the wing tips. Which both can roll an aircraft right on its back!

I do have a suggestion. If you shot at a gunner‚‚ā¨ôs position on a plane knowing well no gunner could live through it, why do they keep firing. Or am I missing something here? Should one be able to hit these areas and stop or reduce the defensive position of the aircraft?

Just my 2-cents.

Womenfly2

J_Weaver
12-09-2004, 01:52 PM
Kind of ot but, have you noticed that when a plane explodes to near to you it will damage or destroy your plane as well. I never noticed this in AEP, so I think its new.