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knug421
09-06-2007, 11:01 PM
So i can understand the concept that energy is life in an airplane. But I have a question about keeping up your speed. When in turning fight, what is the best way to turn in order to keep up your speed? is it banking 90 degress and yanking back on the stick? (im guessing no) or a 45 degree turn with some rudder to keep the plane leveled? is it important that you keep the plane level?

Rounder

knug421
09-06-2007, 11:01 PM
So i can understand the concept that energy is life in an airplane. But I have a question about keeping up your speed. When in turning fight, what is the best way to turn in order to keep up your speed? is it banking 90 degress and yanking back on the stick? (im guessing no) or a 45 degree turn with some rudder to keep the plane leveled? is it important that you keep the plane level?

Rounder

DKoor
09-07-2007, 12:19 AM
You made a mistake if you must get in turning fight.
Do not give them any luxury of actual fight, or at least try not to, just make a pass onto your target and that's it.
But it is what it is.....so turn as hard as you can and try to destroy your oppo fast (because you'll both be picked up by others).

Turning fights are the very worst of all air combat scenarios because in the end you end up on deck in fight from where only one will come out alive, and not rarely both of you will die.

To answer your question precisely, you must state what plane do you fly......because there are another things to consider (best turning speed, flaps etc.) when in turn fight.

knug421
09-07-2007, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the reply, right now I'm doing a campaign (I have '46) for PF, I'm flying the F4F. The japanese planes are much faster and can seem to fly circles around my plane while I'm trying to just not lose speed. I have some success and pass-by shots (don't know the technical name) where the plane is in the crosshair for a half second, whereas chasing the enemy fighter has proven difficult in this plane.

DKoor
09-07-2007, 01:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knug421:
Thanks for the reply, right now I'm doing a campaign (I have '46) for PF, I'm flying the F4F. The japanese planes are much faster and can seem to fly circles around my plane while I'm trying to just not lose speed. I have some success and pass-by shots (don't know the technical name) where the plane is in the crosshair for a half second, whereas chasing the enemy fighter has proven difficult in this plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>F4F is a sturdy plane and when you get Zeke on your tail the only reasonable course of action is to call your wingman/help, firewall the throttle and get the plane into shallow dive.
Initial position will decide whether you'll manage to separate from him or not, but in theory most of the time you should be able to escape unless he has already inflicted heavy damage to your w cat.

I flew a campaign with F4F and yes, A6M is very deadly, but generally one short burst makes a pile of junk out of A6M even from distance.
My gun conv was in range on 175-220m it seemed ideally suited.

About turning with them......it may work vs one Zero, but if there are others around try to avoid flat turns. Mind you Ai doesn't turns like humans do online any kind of turnings vs human flown A6M is just suicide.

You have little speed advantage and you should use it.
BTW those pass-by shots are called snap-shots or deflection shots (if you are required to shoot in front of enemy plane so that your bullets hit when E/A flies thru your burst).

knug421
09-07-2007, 04:18 AM
Thanks, I'll try the 175-220 convergence, right now it's at 300. I've decided to start a new campaign and set the invulnerability on so I can practice more on fighting these guys without having to start the mission over all the time. Thanks for the advice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Pigeon_
09-07-2007, 12:16 PM
Only fly in co÷dinated turns to loose minimum energy. Watch the ball in your inclinometer and keep it centered. Also, don't use a lot of rudder because it causes a lot of drag. It's better to turn at a steeper bank, but you'll loose some altitude. If you want to keep altitude do a climbing turn. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
09-07-2007, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knug421:
Thanks for the reply, right now I'm doing a campaign (I have '46) for PF, I'm flying the F4F. The japanese planes are much faster and can seem to fly circles around my plane while I'm trying to just not lose speed. I have some success and pass-by shots (don't know the technical name) where the plane is in the crosshair for a half second, whereas chasing the enemy fighter has proven difficult in this plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually the Zero (A6M2-21) is only a hair faster than the F4F depending on the altitude. The Wildcat actually has a much greater range of effective speed because it can dive fast and its still very responsive at high speed while the Zero tends to lock up a bit. But the key with Wildcat versus Zero is to alway be diving or climbing and then rolling in over the top. The Wildcat can dive well and it can zoom well...its climb isn't so good but as long as you hold onto the speed or you're up above them then you have that energy advantage.

Let the Zeros turn...when they turn...climb and nose over the top. Don't slow down too much but try and use your roll rate against them.

The good thing is that the Wildcat is the ideal plane to learn this technique in. Once you're good with the Wildcat you're prepared to fly planes like the Thunderbolt, Mustang, Tempest, FW190, and even the Hellcat (which is just a more extreme Wildcat really) as the same techniques can be used on all of these planes with success.

DKoor
09-08-2007, 05:43 AM
Hey knug I made you a demonstration track.......most of these things applies to all fights vs Ai fighters.
In some aspects they are unbeatable champions but when it comes to brain/thinking they fail miserably that is why they aren't tough to shot down.
d/l track
http://www.speedyshare.com/294348209.html

knug421
09-08-2007, 10:08 AM
Wow guys, thanks for all the information. I had to work sorry for the delay in response. I'm d/l the track now. I know of the biggest things for me to learn in order to become successful is when to initiate maneuvers against the enemy. I know what a rolling scissors looks like, for example, but not sure when exactly to begin executing it. I plan on getting Track IR in the next month as well as a throttle/rudder pedal. I think once I'm off of thumbing views and trying to hit small keys in the dark with my fat fingers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif i will be ok.

knug421
09-08-2007, 10:26 AM
Dkoor, I watched the first one and popped back out to say thanks. You answered about 20 questions I've had for a while now with that one trk. One of my problems I believe may be relying on padlock, where I have a tendency to follow the plane instead of executing maneuvers to get into a correct firing position. I can't wait to try some stuff out later. Any other tracks you got laying around I'll take em (or where I can get some good trks.) thanks.

DKoor
09-08-2007, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knug421:
Wow guys, thanks for all the information. I had to work sorry for the delay in response. I'm d/l the track now. I know of the biggest things for me to learn in order to become successful is when to initiate maneuvers against the enemy. I know what a rolling scissors looks like, for example, but not sure when exactly to begin executing it. I plan on getting Track IR in the next month as well as a throttle/rudder pedal. I think once I'm off of thumbing views and trying to hit small keys in the dark with my fat fingers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif i will be ok. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not a prob mate, most of us here will help you out with the sim if we can......that is somewhat a common tradition here.
First you come as a rookie, then over the time as you become more experienced you help others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And then no wonder that IL-2 forums are the most frequent UBi forums in general.

About your doubt when to take an maneuver, it will come with experience.
Sure you can learn a great deal by adopting various techniques (you don't have to learn them hard way, trial &lt;-&gt; mistake).

DKoor
09-08-2007, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knug421:
Dkoor, I watched the first one and popped back out to say thanks. You answered about 20 questions I've had for a while now with that one trk. One of my problems I believe may be relying on padlock, where I have a tendency to follow the plane instead of executing maneuvers to get into a correct firing position. I can't wait to try some stuff out later. Any other tracks you got laying around I'll take em (or where I can get some good trks.) thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Check out my sig, click on Me-109 nose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif that link will take you directly to my track download site....there are quite a few of them made by me and other forum members. Both online/offline with various planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif